🔨 Hard Cast Dangerous Animal 🐻 Ballistic Test - 9mm, 10mm, .38 SPL .357 Mag & .44 Mag

[@artfulalias3984]

Sectional density is very important. The 357x180 and 10x220 have high sectional density [for pistol bullets], followed by the 44, 38, and 9 in that order. With hard cast bullets the meplat does all the work. The % of total dimeter of the meplat has a large effect. Revolver bullets don't have feed concerns regarding bullet profile. Likely the 44 had the largest meplat/diameter ratio and was therefore dumping energy and creating more wounding per depth of penetration and hitting much harder than is evident just by looking at the static result. Its also no surprise the high SD 357 and 10mm passed through. The result were actually pretty predictable. Enjoyed the demonstration. Thanks.

[@arthurskola1256]

That was my thought. SD is key to penetration. I carried a Garret 330 gr hardcast that goes 1400 fps from my Super Redhawk while elk hunting in grizzly country. In the Linebaugh Seminar tests, that round penetrated something like 4 feet. The grizzlies must have heard about it because they stayed away from me.

[@rebelyankee4910]

Good video. .38 special was surprisingly good, loaded hot. Yes .357 outperformed them all as I expected. Colt Python has been my dangerous game gun for decades with hard cast bullets. Controllability, with excellent performance on boar and black bear.

[@ernest9606]

Outstanding comprairition between the calibers. To be honest I thought the 38 would've been the least pinatration. But now I know I'll change my bb 9mm ammo and carry my 357. That really was impressive

[@RT-gv6us]

GREAT test video. With regard to the 9mm I carry it for woods defense when I am in Black Bear country. When I am in Grizzly country I carry a 10mm or 357 mag. One CRUCIAL point to consider that while the 9mm penetrated less it would allow the shooter to get more shots down range in a short amount of time. Also, many shooters with smaller hands can shoot the 9mm more accurately and in a woods defense scenario (I had one last year) only hits count. The best gun to carry is the one you can shoot accurately and quickly. I live in Oregon and most of the Black Bear run kind of small. While there are some 350 lb bruins running around, most of the bear killed in the state range from 170-250 lbs. For that reason, I feel comfortable with a 9mm in Oregon, but when I hunt or hike in the Rockies, (Wyoming/Montana/Idaho) I carry the 10mm with 200g hardcast (Underwood) almost exclusively.

[@ronaldarand5085]

My cousin in Alaska told me a bear defense expert’s carry is a 357. I believe he said 185 hard cast for the reasons you have just shown. Penetration and control ability. What you need on a charging bear. Another good informative video, thanks

[@SoWavvyy]

You're the only one doing these types of tests Sam, keep it up 👍

[@diffperspectiveok]

Found your channel yesterday. New sub after this video. 357 is my all around favorite firearm.

[@GunSam]

Thank you. The .357 Mag is hard to beat. I often see it do things that the .44 Mag can do, but with half the recoil.

[@YellowHammer26]

Excellent test Sam, thanks 👍👍. Surprised with the 38spl even though it's one of my favorite calibers.

[@GunSam]

Thanks

[@mkshffr4936]

As to the .44 it is the heaviest but also the widest. Still plenty of penetration though. That wimply little .38 really had some stones. Impressed.

[@Michael.R.Harding.Realtor]

Once I saw the depth of the 38 special I thought the rest of the usual suspects: .357 magnum, 10mm, 44 magnum, would fly right through the blocks. I wasn't sure what to expect with the 9mm. I have to say I was really surprised by the lack of performance by this round. Although I was surprised the 44 magnum didn't go all the way through it did go deep enough to be an effective choice. Keep up the great work.

[@GunSam]

I was surprised as well. I learned something new today. Like, if I had used fleece as a backstop, I think the bullets would have stopped. I figured by the end of the gel there's no way they can punch through a thin piece of wood or fiberboard or whatever I used I had found. Next time i'm putting up my 6" x 8" 3A fiberglass plate.

[@dangerman007]

The good old .38 is really an underrated round. Like you said, you can go more powerful, but you will pay the price in recoil.

[@Francisco-t5e]

And accuracy

[@timrobinson6573]

This would be interesting to see shoot a JHP along with these hard cast rounds just to see what it would do against this setup. It would be a cool contrast for comparison.

[@biggunshandguns3687]

The 38 special continues to surprise me. All the others were just kind of of go him. I know when you get a 10mm with a 200gr bullet can be pretty stout recoil so I done. Great video as usual thanks dude I appreciate the work you do

[@stuartstuart866]

Wound diameter ( .44 ) certainly plays a part in stop-ability.

[@r.awilliams9815]

Absolutely. With cast bullets Bigger is definitely Better.

[@nathanlambshead4778]

@@bobjones-bt9bh Not to be controversial on energy of calibers, but energy has absolutely nothing at all to do with it. If the central nervous system is not taken out, the bear will keep coming. Same thing with lesser attackers, needing vital organs and/or central nervous system taken out. That means shot placement with enough penetration. Period. 44 magnum does not hit the target any harder than it hits your hand. Try slapping a charging bear sometime. Won't do much.

[@johnochicago8457]

@@nathanlambshead4778 Shot placement, then penetration and expansion last if at all. I carry a snub and use underwood standard pressure 148Gr rated at 1000fps from a 4" and 158gr plus p rated at 1000 fps again from a 4" so I think they will travel at about 900 from a 2.25" model 640 Smith. Accuracy and penetration count the most.

[@corybrown8422]

(.429)

[@nelsonr1467]

Reaching vital organs is more important then wound diameter

[@ChuckTruitt]

Good stuff, you have opened my eyes more too the .38 these past couple of years! -Gunny T sends

[@lanedexter6303]

That test had a couple of surprises.👍 I am impressed by that .38 load. Back when I was pushing the .38 I was well beyond +P by the time I got a 158 to 1100 out of 6 inches. Before we had good expanding bullets, Cooper felt your best load in a a .38 was a sharp shouldered 158-160 SWC pushed to 1000 fps, but it took a very heavy load to do that out of a shorter barrel.

[@herbertblevins7077]

Great test ! really open your eye to what hard cast bullets can do .

[@jackmorrison4382]

Best comparison test I’ve seen. Thanks!

[@Fudmottin]

Those Underwood "red pills" in 38 were pretty excellent. I don't think they would do so well out of a snub, but I don't think a snub is a viable dangerous game platform. Ideally you would be running a six inch barrel for the revolver loads.

[@originallonewolf6643]

It would tumble out of a snub probably won't get the penetration but the damage would be amazing

[@W1ldt1m]

@@originallonewolf6643 it wouldn't tumble, it would just be a bit slower.

[@margarethouse404]

A 158gr SWC is very much a known quantity in terminal behavior . Never say never for something like hitting heavy bone at an oblique angle , but they will usually penetrate point forewards in a straight line . Given Underwood's proprietary powders and higher velocities , from a 2 to 2.5 inch bbl , velocity should be similar to " normal " top end +P from a 4 inch , I'd guess upper 900's . For historical context , the 1125 fps Sam measured , was the 1940's era spec for .38-44 .

[@Fudmottin]

@@margarethouse404 I'm really behind the curve there. I'm looking for 755 fps out of a 2" barrel and hoping that recoil is not that bad from a J-Frame.

[@thorshammer5134]

@@margarethouse404actually way off. The underwood lipstick loads reach 1100 fps from my 1.8 inch 442. They do not tumble in the tests I’ve seen and penetrate very far. I carry these rounds in my snub nose when hiking, bow hunting, during winter, use underwood 125 grain gold dots for summer/fall edc. Sometimes I just stick with the hardcast. It’s a legitimate 400+ ft lbs energy cartridge out of a 1.8 inch barrel. They WOULD punch through a bear skull as long as placement was proper.

[@MSimpy-js4db]

Hey Gun Sam, love your videos!! They definitely show what’s going on past the “what’s on paper” ballistics, which is extremely helpful for bullet selection! I’d love to see more “Dangerous Game” ballistics gel tests comparing different solid 45 ACP loads, as lots of people poo poo the .45 ACP for woods protection and/or hunting. (Although it can duplicate many standard pressure 45 Colt loads). 200gr through 255gr, standard pressure and +P, Underwood vs Double Tap vs Buffalo Bore vs… And if you’re ever able, some 45 Auto Rim tests from a 4-5” S&W 625 would be awesome!! Thanks again for the great videos!

[@countryguywithcamera]

Could we get a side by side comparison of hard cast vs fmj? Hc and fmj in each caliber

[@frankhinkle5772]

Thanks for the test. good information. I might look for that .38Spl hard cast, that was impressive. Weather looks nice!

[@876mpr]

Great stuff! Definitely want to see more of this kind of thing. That front driving band on the .44 magnum is just cutting/crushing more material than the others. I’m working on an extensive project with various 245-255 grain SWC’s in .44 magnum at 1050-1200 fps and really wish I had the ability to test penetration.

[@poobank]

You were right that 38 special was spicy for sure. I didn't expect about 450 ft lbs of energy. Wow. Cool test

[@Titan500J]

This is a good one. That 38 spl did very well. The 357 mag was my favorite, hard hitting and manageable recoil. My opinion only Thank you.

[@GunSam]

Thanks!

[@leewitte4700]

I'm surprised so many are surprised at the 44. It seems to me it did the job. Penetrated about 40" and dumped all of it's energy. It sure hit the target harder than the others. That with the energy calculation via the chronograph, at just under 900 FPE, it looked to me to be a big game stopper.

[@Bowstringdotcom]

Fantastic video! Exactly what I was trying to find and see. Thanks for the work put into this!

[@Gronicle1]

I seem to keep finding these interesting older videos. Nice work. Makes me wonder who ever buys a .50 S&W Mag or .460, etc. When I was in Alaska in the 70's and 80's it seemed like .44 Mag was more than enough, and a good slug gun was better. Thanks.

[@randyadams03]

Thanks GS ,

[@357mag84]

I think you should have shot the 9mm again. I think it was a one off. I feel like it should be a lot closer to the .38. Great video as always.

[@garyglenn5233]

I love your range. When you're done shooting, you can sit back and relax while catching a few fish. Nice.

[@GunSam]

Thanks. I fished as a kid down there. You see water but that's just an area that fills and drains throughout the year. About 100 yards back is the river.

[@alanpruett2217]

The .38 Special round surprised me. I’ll have to get some of that.

[@highsecurityagent8778]

The 9mm 147+P still penetrated 20 inches, Underwood Ammo also has a 147gr 9mm +P Hardcast, and Federal has the 147gr +P premium with the Syntech technology maybe you can also try those two. It will still get good penetration. Thanks for thevideo.

[@terrymattson3587]

Yes 9mm out of the league. Bears 🐻 need bone busting rounds. Good stuff thanks

[@Roboticdoughbull3k]

Yeah it's all about what round you use and the powders of course. There's 9mm rounds now that compare right with 357sig and 40s+w, 45acp, differences are negligible at best. One thing I've noticed over the past year watching bang bang channels, this guy will gladly and convienteley find the shortest straw when comparing 9mm just to mess with the trolls. I see he got a nibble with you bub😆.

[@keithfreeman5204]

I am a fan of the 357 magnum. Having a rifle and a sidearm that uses the same ammo is a big plus. Secondly, I am a reloader since 1974. Versatility is the key word I would use to describe the 357 magnum. The 110-125gn bullets used for PSP. For a very light load, a 95gn HCRN just as an experimental loading, using 3-4gn of BE. The heavy bullets are used for hunting in the rifle. It's a single shot, break action, with a 22inch barrel, with a 3x9x40 scope. 3 shot groups at 100 yards, all holes touching , average group about an inch, with the XTP and HCSWC projectiles. Deer and wild hog have been taken with the rifle inside of a hundred yards, O S O K. I get close as possible for that perfect single shot with the rifle. If I had either the 44 magnum or the 45 LC I would strive for the same idea of having a sidearm and rifle using the same ammo. Hand loading simply brings out the best in any caliber. What a hobby.

[@GunSam]

I only been hand loading since 2015. I like the .357 Mag versatility as well. I have shot everything from the .38 Short Colt up to 800 ft lbs of Buffalo Bore magnums in my 4". My favorite fun loads are using the 200 gr LRN in a .38 Special, very quiet and do really well in ballistic tests.

[@Matchload]

@@GunSam I appreciate your efforts here. The added MDF to simulate bone was something that most gel testers don't include. A lot of 9mm owners want to know if their cartridge is capable of deep penetration in bear country. Maybe a multiple round test with the same gel and MDF set-up? One round may have been a fluke. Thanks for the video. BTW, I knew you would miss those head shots with the revolver. I always aim too high when switching from semiautomatics to revolver. Especially .38.

[@flyinryan7340]

Damn, this makes me wonder how the hardcast .40s&w and 45 would stack up! I've carried the BB 9mm+p outdoorsman for years and always felt confident in it, but it's amazing seeing how quickly it slows down when there's actually some obstructions and not just bare gel. Regardless, I absolutely love your content and the time and effort you put into these videos! The most comprehensive useful reviews I've come across, without any fluff. Please keep it up!

[@SoWavvyy]

9mm for the hoods 10mm for the woods it’s literally that simple. Get with the times old man.

[@flyinryan7340]

@@SoWavvyy I rely on proven results when it comes to stopping threats,.. not cute catch phrases. A for effort sport 👍🏻

[@SoWavvyy]

@@flyinryan7340 that’s literally the definition of the “catch phrase”. You’ve been under a rock a long time.

[@flyinryan7340]

@@SoWavvyy Damn.. you seem desperate to prove, something 😂 Literally nothing you said pertains to how a 40s&w or 45acp would compare. You should save your "real world" wisdom for the COD lobby. Best of luck mate 🍻

[@SoWavvyy]

@@flyinryan7340 Hop on the game let’s play

[@Malco47]

Thanks for the thorough test! Your thumb grip (left over right) is less common. Have you always used that grip?

[@sylvaincaron2602]

I love your, process, thinking and analysis. Just wish we could own and shoot guns way more easily up here in Canada

[@jeffreyhall838]

Another great test! I run .44 Special hard cast in my 329PD when im in my black bear infested woods, i would be interested to see how it would compare

[@erikjensen6503]

Great video as always! Interesting all the different loads and calibers you test

[@teuton6167]

This video was the tipping point-I hit subscribe. 👍

[@danoneill2846]

The 44 made the block move a lot more than the others .

[@texasbeast239]

Animals need to drop--not dance.

[@rockie307]

44 mag will drop them quicker bigger bullet= more tissue damage.

[@Matchload]

@@texasbeast239 LOL.

[@Darkhunter218]

@@rockie307 10.9mm vs 9.1mm

[@nathanlambshead4778]

From rural Black bear country...thank you for the video. I use 180 grn 357 and my wife uses 158 grn +P 38 spcl. Both Buffalo Bore. Only thing is we both use snubbies. 2.5 inch for me, 2 inch for her. And for everyone who insists on using an auto loader...observe. lol Wheelguns rule in this venue.

[@GunSam]

Buffalo Bore is generally better than Underwood in revolver rounds. But this particular Underwood .38 is about even with Buffalo Bore.

[@margarethouse404]

As I commented above , with boutique UW , BB , or equivalent handloads , the snub velocities will be similar to mainstream loads from a 4 inch , if that meets your actual or perceived requirements / druthers, you're good for power . But the limiting factor will then be the snubnose Guns . ie , the capability to make fairly quick , precise first shot Hits , and reasonably fast . precise follow up Hits . You ( everyone ) would need to realistically be able to shoot it as quickly and accurately as a 4 inch or longer gun . Can it be done ? Depends on the gun and the shooter . * For Me * , a 2.75 in Speed Six is fully there , and 2 in K Frame is there at least up to level of mainstream +P . J Frames ? Even back in the day of constant practising with Other People's Ammunition , J Frame was about 2/3 the shooting potential of a medium frame gun . And in training and observing people less dedicated to constantly practicing , the difference was huge . Am I the be all and end all of Revolver skills ? Of course not , and one of Sam's viewers may well be . But I've observed and coached enough hundreds to have a decent handle on expectations . Sufficient for two legged felon defense , out to say 15 yds ? Reasonable and achievable goal . Making quick head shots on agitated and moving quickly by: Yogi ? Probably not .

[@nathanlambshead4778]

@@margarethouse404 I don't see any comments above? Anyway, My woods 357 carry is a Smith K Frame, all steel, 2.5 inch barrel. I can fire it rapidly enough. BUt I am also well aware of the adrenaline and stress of an actual attack (Experienced it when 2 American bulldogs attacked me and the missus on our rural road morning walk) At that time, as per usual in summer, I was just carrying my pocket 380. One shot dissipated the situation, with nobody hurt. Except one of the dogs. All happened in about 15 seconds, but I swear time was in slow motion, as well as fast forward at the same time. People have no idea.

[@Maddog2047]

The lack of penetration of the (MM surprised me. The other rounds were good performers. I think that the Underwood extreme penetrator in 9MM would have performed well in this test. Good Video.

[@tblattel3873]

I don’t think I’d use a 9mm for dangerous game defense, but seeing what it did for Phil Shoemaker, if that’s what I had, it would be Buffalo Bore 147gr. hard cast. That man has “been there” and if it worked for him, I’d trust my life with it too. That doesn’t mean I’ll for sure have the same outcome, but I know it has worked in the past. Great video, with good information.

[@faryldaryl3975]

That incident I read about on the BB site was the first thing to come to mind when I saw the 9MM included here. IIRC it went thru like 16" of grizz.

[@D-A-1776]

I use 9mm .40 s&w and 10mm while hiking we have black bear really bad and coyote. I use extreme penatrators and hardcast. I use the coated hardcast from underwood

[@catshark12]

Thanks again for your hard work.

[@DLC-9]

There are anecdotal reports out of Alaska of 40 cal being an effective bear defense round. If you ever revisit this please consider testing it.

[@GunSam]

I might have to. Been getting a few requests for it.

[@Roninforged]

Ummm….I live and hunt Alaska….trust me when I say 40 cal is NOT what you want to be carrying if you have something better.

[@FredensBP]

Thanks for this excellent video presentation. I would like to see you test the 255 grain hard-cast 45 ACP from Underwood or Buffalo Bore with this same set-up for measuring terminal ballistics. If I recall correctly, the advertised velocity for both is around 950 fps out of a 5” 1911, so energy is just over 500 ft.lbs. Of course penetration is more important than raw muzzle energy when it comes to defending yourself against a charging bear with a pistol (good thing the bear doesn’t have opposable thumbs!). I kind of doubt the .45 would out-penetrate the 158 grain Underwood .38 Special, which, at ~1200 fps, is approaching 357 mag velocity, but I would love to be proven wrong. Maybe you have already done this test in the intervening two years. If so, can you or someone out there point me to it?

[@stefanfful]

Good work Sam. Thanks.

[@rampage_pwny3063]

It seems that board that was a few inches deep shines a light on how inconsistent lower powered rounds could be. That 9mm had very little energy leftover after the board and its penetration suffered dramatically. The more powerful cartridges had enough energy to still deliver good penetration after the board.

[@Drawde907]

I have Glock mags from the 80's and they still function flawlessly, with no sign of wear . That falling out like that .. something isn't OEM

[@Narsuitus]

Thanks for an excellent video. For protection against black bears, feral hogs, and wild dogs, I carry a Smith & Wesson 6-inch barrel 357 magnum loaded with 180 grain hard cast ammo made by HSM or Buffalo Bore, . Recently, I have been considering carrying a Heckler & Koch 6-inch barrel 45acp semi-automatic loaded with 255 grain hard cast ammo made by Buffalo Bore, Underwood, or Double Tap. I would love to see you testing these .45 hard cast bullets on your dangerous animal simulation.

[@cal1776]

Impressive. 38 results.

[@richardelliott9511]

I enjoy your tests but don't always comment. I love it when your tests give results which contradict the common lore. I get ecstatic over videos like this one that go to confirm your theory that 38 special is the the best cartridge and can be taylored to perform well for much wider circumstances than most people would believe. Which also follows along with my thoughts that you don't need the bone jarring recoil of the biggest magnums to have an effective cartridge. I have a SA revolver that will shoot 38spl but no DA, guess I need to "put my money where my mouth is" and find one. Lol

[@patrickliston9595]

Hard to beat hard cast. Easy to mold your own, penetrates anything not made of hard metal easily, and very dense. I'd use hard cast for defense any day in a .356 or greater caliber. I think a 40 SW hard cast would be great.

[@SuspiciousGanymede]

I had some doubletap .40 220gr hard cast and was shooting them from a full size sig 1911 at steel from a distance of 40yds; a piece of cast bullet managed to bounce back and hit the hat I was wearing at the time. Definitely comparable hardness to steel.

[@GunSam]

@@SuspiciousGanymede Hard cast is an interesting metal. FMJ's jackets are harder than hard cast but the center is softer. Hard cast is this just generally hard through and through thing. I would imagine a traditional cup and core bullet might deform less through thin metal, but thicker stuff or multiple barriers like lots of drywall, a hard cast would deform way less.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

In heavier pistols, 10mm would be more "shootable" I think. Something like metal gun, a Sig P220, or some variety of 1911. Capacity would be down if not using a doublestack polymer. Buffalo Bore also runs a hard cast 255gr 45acp+p. Would have been interesting to see where that faired, compared to the 9mm. Great test! Putting hard cast thumpers into a carbine would REALLY up the horsepower.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

@Hans Stein I was aware of the Tanfoglio CZ repro, didn't know CZ made one.

[@goatlocker219]

The Springfield XDM Elite 10mm holds 17 rounds. its a very nice platform, especially with a grip wrap and a gas pedal.

[@davidsomerset8411]

I'm honestly thinking the BB 9MM was not up to snuff. Maybe you got a bad batch? When Mr Shoemaker shot the grizzly they were just under the fur on the opposite side (almost complete pass thru) and his last shot hit and broke his spine. The 357 did the best when you taped those 7 (2x4's) together in that video you did it beat the 10mm that time! P.S. great 👍 review.

[@GunSam]

I think it tumbled, which I have seen in many 147 gr loads in many pistols.

[@tblattel3873]

I can’t explain why the BB 9mm didn’t “perform”, but I can’t image it being a bad batch, Buffalo Bore is some of the best ammo available, period. Not to say it can never happen, but if someone like Phil Shoemaker trusts it, I know that I would put my faith in it. Very strange performance.

[@ibpositivemostly7437]

Cool video thanks.

[@terrywisham9228]

Very good your far superior to others that ping ping little circles

[@celowski6296]

So, us handloaders have options. Example, the Brinell hardness of the bullet. Most "cowboy" actions use 12 which are subsonic. The Brinell 18 level is for supersonic loads. Which seem to be what buffalo is using. Harder the bullet, more penetration. Figure I'd throw some "Cliff Clavin" info at ya! Many don't understand, they can google it. haha... Another good comment filled vid.

[@bobcatforever3485]

Thanks. Always an interesting video. Thanks again for your work in putting these videos together. Take care.

[@GunSam]

Thank you, take care.

[@johnochicago8457]

I love when people tell me that's what you carry, a 38. Yea it works. Don't waste your money on hollow points, wadcutters or semi wadcutters by underwood is the way to go.

[@dn88s]

That lower sectional density in the 44 made a difference. You'd need almost a 270 grain to get the same sectional density as a 180 grain 357

[@anangryranger]

Great evaluation of the available hardcast ammo. You did well. That Glock mag drop was not good huh? Living in the woods of East Texas, I have multiple opportunities to shoot hogs and coyote literally almost in my backyard so to speak. I live in a target rich environment. Been loading and casting for over 60 years. What I've found to be a ferocious load on hogs up to a couple 350# to 400# monsters, was a 250gr Keith SWC cast in linotype from a 45 Colt. Driven at the proper safe pressures, it will destroy big hogs with unbelievable ease. About 75% pass through provided no bones are hit. Interestingly enough, a RCBS 140gr RNFP 38 cast hard, loaded to near +P in a 9mm is a remarkable load. Zips through coyote like nothing I expected. Hogs are not immune to the round either, with many one shot kills on those under 200#. Again, great review of the available hardcast ammo. Thanks for hosting a great channel!

[@markmuch1295]

How would a Winchester 94 30/30 170 grain Core Lokt do on them wild boar? or 12 ga 00 buckshot? My sister lives near Spurger in the piney woods.

[@anangryranger]

@@markmuch1295 A partner of mine used a 150gr Hornady flatpoint in 30-30 and dropped 'em like flys! 00 buck, up close is brutal. Even knew a professional hog trapper that shot 'em with a 22LR with great success hitting 'em behind the ear. Avoid the skull and the scapula (shoulder bones). They're like armored plate to smaller rounds.

[@Gieszkanne]

Very interesting test and strange that the .38 special with only 11 grain more bullet weight and just a bit more velocity penetrate so much further almost twice as much. I think a regular 124gr fmj would penetrate much more.

[@nicolashippolitomota9493]

Weird ballistics. Like every physical phenomenon its have so many variables that sometimes will have very weird results.

[@GunSam]

I think 147 gr is just too long for most pistols. I suspect tumbling.

[@margarethouse404]

Bullet design . An SWC that is reasonably faithful to Elmer Keith's designs is an extremely effective and versatile shape . The 9mm Flat Nose is inherently a compromise to ensure feed reliability . But yes , 147gr in 9x19 is inherently a major design tradeoff . To maintain COL and feed profile . the 147 takes up a lot of internal case volume , reducing powder space . Optimal bullet weight for 9x19 is probably +\- 124 gr . 9mm is still worthy of discussion in this context . For much of the gun owning public that started out in recent decades , have only owned semiautos . And more than a few of them that are of hunting backgrounds , when they do venture into bear country for hiking or camping , a full size 9mm IS their most suitable handgun . And 9mm fmj has been used in the real world to drop large Alaskan Bears . The caveat is with the coolness of marksmanship to make a brain shot . But. that's the goal for close range bear defense with any handgun . We see here that 9mm is more affected than the other ctgs by the change to carpet & and 1/2 in MDF . The follow up would be to test this 147 hard cast vs a 124 - ish hard cast vs NATO spec 124 fmj .

[@davidlee8551]

Great Information! Thanks!

[@taasch2505]

I live in a jurisdiction where i can't only carry 3 guns on my permit. It's summer time. Atm I carry my Taurus 856 executive grade 3" defender model. This time of year we are going to the mountains more. I hope the BB 158 grain is enough. If I could have added my Taurus 65 to my permit I would have. I think it's stupid we can't carry anything we are proficient in...but hey that's LA county for you

[@MrHrKaidoOjamaaVKJV]

An interesting, insightful ballistic test! It would be best if you would do test comparisons of both the, various Underwood and Buffalo Bore equivalent rounds. Especially with the 9mm,147 grain Hard Cast, FMJ and the,115 Penetrator rounds vs Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman etc. Alaskan Guide, Mr. Phil Shoemaker, stopped, and killed a charging enraged Grizzly Bear, with 7 rounds of Buffalo Bore's 9mm147 grain Hard Cast Outdoorsman rounds. In 1934/1935 , Smith&Wesson hired professional Hunters who field tested, the newly developed 357 Magnum revolvers with the long 8 3/4 inch barrels. The hunters killed numerous species of dangerous apex predatorial beasts with the 357 Magnum. Most often with using only one shot except for the Antelope, which took (2) shots. Game animals such as, Antelope, Moose, Wapiti,(Elk), Grizzly Bear, Black Bear, and Walrus, were all successfully taken with those 8 3/4 inch long Registered 357 Magnum revolvers.

[@matthewtalich9989]

Smith & Wesson recently introduced a new 10mm m&p 2.0 just something to consider if you ever want to replace that finicky conversion gun.

[@chrisgabbert658]

👍😊🎯 good testing to see how they preform even the 9mm if that’s all you have.

[@pistolerogt]

Excellent performance of the 38spl. With a revolver short barrel is the same performance? Excellent video! I am a revolvers lovers. God bless you. God bless América.

[@GunSam]

A short barrel, being these no real deformation would simply penetrate less if a 158 gr.

[@Jaycv-dq3rg]

Hey gun Sam why would 9mm hard cast penetrate so less than 38 the bullets are not that different in energy and size

[@carlrobinson8177]

Hands down I love the 357 mag nevertheless 10mm the Bear rounds in the back woods plus if you have to shoot someone with a bulletproof vest,yes it might not penetrate but their insides they’re gonna need a medevacl.

[@mattbrown5511]

All but the 9MM would be nice for the wild hogs near me. For larger game, the .357 and bigger (heavier) rounds would be better. A moose or elk or even a bobcat needs to be hurt to a large degree before they will change their aggression profile. Just my experience speaking, others may have different experiences.

[@yellowboxster06]

Funny…”Glock Perfection”. I haven’t seen magazine drops like that since retiring my Sig P938 7-round magazines. I was also a little surprised at the 44 Mag results.

[@tiltedflip4491]

Good test Man! Now I want to go to the range but I can't shoot as good as you.I get lucky sometimes though.

[@GunSam]

Thanks. I don't shoot great, just as good as someone who shoots 50 rounds a week.

[@SuspiciousGanymede]

Wow, really surprised at the 9mm and 44mag results. Can you do a soft point comparison between handgun calibers? I would really appreciate it, I'm using a 10mm 1911 as a hunting/hiking sidearm and the hard cast performance was kind of disappointing in terms of permanent wound track. Maybe something like the federal trophy soft point would give deep penetration and better wounding?

[@GunSam]

While I do have that exact Federal Trophy soft point in 10mm, I don't have any other calibers in soft point I don't think, maybe some Remington .357 125 soft point. I might consider it but I have a few projects I am invested in first.

[@davidsomerset8411]

Dude what was you expecting a hard cast to do ?Are you new to shooting? Hard cast are designed to punch thru heavy thick muscles and heavy bones not create a massive wound channel.

[@margarethouse404]

Surprised at the .44 results ? Thick carpet , 1/2 MDF , and 38 inches of penetration before bouncing off a board is quite respectable , and more than adaquate for intended purposes . The limiting factor for 255gr .44 Mag is keeping the recoil semi controllable for semi quick follow up shots . 10mm ? Without being snarky , what would you be seeking instead ? The intended goal of these rounds ( and hard cast generally ) is gobs of penetration and minimal to zero bullet deformation , which we're seeing here . If you were a handloader with revolver . something like an LBT WFN would give a 5% to 10% larger wound channel than a true Keith SWC of similar weight . But with feed considerations for a semiauto , you're not leaving much room for improvement over this shown here . If hypothetically you would prefer a 10mm loading with some expansion , and 25- ish inch of penetration , they're out there . Would. they be " Better " ? That's for you to decide . Different approaches , reflecting different philosophies .

[@fordloyalist2791]

Can you test Underwood 200 grain hardcast 10mm? In the same fashion? I’m surprised in this test! 10MM really does do a great job for a semi cartridge !! That .38 did work too very surprised

[@bullseyetactical]

Hey man!! Thanks for the videos!! I’m curious to see a comparison between high powered 10mm, 41 magnum and 44 magnum… maybe 357 instead of 44, to be closer… Do you have any 41 magnum gun? Thanks

[@goranmalnar5172]

44 mag rules. Great video 👍

[@GunSam]

Thank you

[@ridiculousfishr9812]

Can you do one of these with 40sw? Seems like you’ve been impressed with 40 in other tests. In my area 40 is available and cheap enough to practice with. 357 and 10 are rare to find and expensive.

[@DaveTalks985]

Glad to see to 38 do so well.

[@GeographyCzar]

Well then...!!!! OK, so 9mm is not a good round for Dangerous Game. The rest, yes. Even 38 Special, if you load it correctly, and Underwood does, in this case. NICE TEST! THANK YOU, GUN SAM!!

[@GunSam]

Thanks!

[@ParkerHale06]

Thank you very much for sharing your results. I agree with many comments below especially those from "Artfulalias3984". I will nevertheless say that In my opinion there shouldn't have been that much difference between the 38 Spl and the 9mm ; similar type of bullet, similar sectional density and not too far apart velocities. I believe that some media change happened throughout the test, I am tempted to believe the 44 shot just before the 9mm induced some air gap between the 1st and 2nd section of media or disturbed the plywood in such a way that it influenced subsequent shot ... or something else. I could be wrong but I feel something not fair happened with the 9mm. You are probably aware as I am, that Phil Shoemaker stopped an angry brown bear with this 9mm load. If you had a chance like I had to look at pictures of where the bullets stopped in the bear, it was certainly much better performance than what we have seen here. Far away from me to discredit what you have accomplished here, short of the 9mm it is enlighting. May I suggest not to shoot as many rounds in the same media for future large scale comparison , just to eliminate "media perturbation" in the long run ? Keep on your excellent work.

[@markmuch1295]

How about a Howda .577 double barrel pistol that stop a leaping tiger in a jiffy?

[@chiefinspectorclue-so7433]

That 38 special should be great for whitetail deer and medium size black bear.

[@guardianminifarm8005]

All did ok. 44 magnum is the boss....no surprise.

[@whelenhunter4469]

Pretty good test. I bet a 44mag with a 265gr bullet and heaver would have plowed all the way like the 357 and 10mm.

[@GunSam]

Probably. When I used to have a model 629 6" I would shoot 300 gr a lot. Not doing in this gun lighter than my 686 lol

[@texasbeast239]

For sure. 255gr isn't particularly heavy for .44 caliber. 220gr is the max for 10mm.

[@JeffreyCotle]

Gun Sam awsome. This is what i shoot out of my rugers. Thank you.😊

[@WmRichardGullick]

But can it be safely fired through Glock barrels?

[@dragonaut4208]

Curious to see how the 380 hard (underwood and buffalo bore)cast performs in a gel setup like this.

[@GunSam]

I have some in standard and +P as well as .32 H&R and .32 Long. I been thinking about trying them.

[@dragonaut4208]

@@GunSam make it happen with all of them! Some lightweight options for hiking/trail/camping…

[@aaron38144]

Could a shorter barrel 357 (Smith and Wesson 640 for example) handle either the 38 or 357 underwood rounds or would there be too much recoil to be feasible?

[@GunSam]

I have shot the hottest of the hot Buffalo Bore 180 gr hard cast in my 20 OZ Taurus 605, so you could...but I wouldn't want to unless you had to. Follow up shots would be slow, but it depends on the need I suppose.

[@aaron38144]

@Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ That's what I figured, thanks! Did you by chance do a video with the 180 gr Buffalo bore in your taurus?

[@totljag1]

Love ❤️ your videos !

[@mariomoso1059]

Do pmc bronze .357 mag and simate a deer or a hog... please

[@totaldla]

I was surprised the 147gr 9mm didn't zip right through those blocks.

[@lfcdz]

The 158 gr .38 spl. Never disapoints.

[@W1ldt1m]

I saw that setup and thought you should have done a quarter inch of mdf every six inches all the way out.

[@GunSam]

Maybe, but I am trying to simply double the MDF so it can relate to my typical setup I used with hollow points. Typically 1/4" takes off about 2" of penetration, 1/2" takes off 4" and so on. With ones stopped I can relate to how it compares to a hollow point. Like 37" is 41" of straight gel and so on. Sounds confusing but it's how I have it. Next test will have some 3A plate in the back.

[@douggiek9]

Well done

[@gunsgearoutdoorsalaska5875]

I was surprised how well the .38 did.