HARD FOULS! Coach on the FLOOR! Let's Look at all the things!

[@BetterOfficials]

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[@johnsandlin5833]

The coach who came onto the floor deserved to be T'd. No coach can come on the floor to yell at the officiating crew. I agree with the end result of the Intentional Foul on the original play

[@dennishall8050]

Sec 23, Art. 3, e. The guard may turn or duck to absorb the shock of imminent contact.

[@BetterOfficials]

Did he turn or duck?

[@stevelatimer8719]

Play 2.the defender, having obtained LGP, can move backward or obliquely while still maintaining LGP. BHD went to and through defender. Defenders legs did not move forward, just not backwards. BHD caused the contact. PCF!

[@luisvillarroel5978]

Thanks!

[@seniorscientist590]

Here's one for ya! A1 throw in from midcourt towards basket. Pass tipped near basket by B1 and ball goes through hoop. Went three points to team A since throw in was beyond 3 point line. Thoughts?

[@Garb316]

Could play #2 (1:57) be considered a technical for flopping? 11:22 could be called as an intentional on white and a technical on red, if it was the assistant that came on the court to complain.

[@KennonFort]

What about play five in terms of a possible traveling violation first by the ball handler prior to question of block/charge? He gathered the ball with the right foot on the floor and then picked up that foot, put it back down (without being simultaneous with other foot for legal jump stop) AND THEN the contact occurred!

[@BetterOfficials]

Now that you point it out, traveling could be ruled here.

[@laynemangum349]

23:00 You say the screen doesn't impede the progress of the defender. 1st, it's a blind side screen. The screener has already fouled before the defender moves. 2nd, the screener leans into the screen with his upper body and a forearm extended. 3rd, the screener's stance is outside his vertical plane with an extended knee. A blindside screener cannot make any contact with a defender, and must leave room for the defender to avoid contact. The rest of the play should be irrelevant.

[@BetterOfficials]

Agree with your analysis of the contact! I just don't see the impact of the contact.

[@darrellyoung1228]

Thanks for stating the Rule on the 3 point scenario. 🎉

[@darrellyoung1228]

Much thanks for the unusual buzzer beater!

[@chrisbrooks4697]

Coach earned a Technical in this case! You've got to give it! Too much disrespect in the game today by both players and coaches, IMHO!

[@darwinsanada8309]

Stay to watch players after a hard foul such as what happened... eye contact with partner(s)... get together and discuss what each had seen... then after players are apart make a ruling on the court Intentional/ flagrant foul...

[@lakerfan0852]

Great stuff Greg!!

[@luisvillarroel5978]

In my association, I see many officials reluctant to T a coach for fear of reprisals in the form of not getting invited back to their gym. This could equate to a loss of income to the official, loss of a shorter commute to a preferred gym etc. That play required at least a talking to the coach by the trailing official who ran right past him.

[@chrisbrooks4697]

Scratch me then, I tell coaches and players in the pre-game we are here to officiate (there are 3 of us), coaches are here to coach, and players are here to play. I expect consummate professionalism and sportsmanship. Anything else, buy a ticket in the stands. No warnings once official play starts because we are talking now, this is the warning, T's will follow! "Respect the rectangle!"

[@mituswelltry9826]

For the you make the call: 2 points since it wasn't a "legal try", it was a deflection from a pass.

[@xin5aneshot410]

Is the last bonus 34:12 clip a travel? Did he move both of his feet without dribbling. Either way it’s impressive that he made the shot.

[@luckedout]

I'm not sure I'd T up the coach but I'd give him an official warning. The trail should have picked up the coach coming up the court though. He had a great view while his crewmates were controlling players.

[@chrisbrooks4697]

That brother should have gotten a T, automatic! I run a coach over, I T them up! Why? should not have been on the court! This rectangle is yours to manage, not the coaches or the players!

[@mikelally97]

On play #4 10:54 why didn’t the presence of the floor cleaner guy with a dust mop standing in the middle of the lane either a) result in an immediate whistle well before the players got to the lane, and b) keep the foul as a regular foul since the defender MAY have felt he needed to move into the dribbler to avoid a collision w/ floor cleaner guy? Does a non-participant on the floor AND in the direct path of the play warrant consideration during adjudication? If it does, how would/should it affect it? Great work and thanks!

[@BetterOfficials]

Mike that's why we make the big bucks. Making judgements about plays. I would not have stopped play. Obvious advantage. Moller moving out of the way.

[@briholt100]

Play 2...The vid of yours i watched yesterday said defendsers could lean away from contact and still be a charge. Using thst standard, play 2 is a charge.

[@BetterOfficials]

That would be true if the player is displaced by the contact. This player is not displaced by the contact.

[@briholt100]

@@BetterOfficialsWell, if that's case, what is the motivation for bringing up lean in the other video? In other words, we know that an offensive foul takes place when an offensive player collides with a defensive player (in good position) and in that Collision a defensive player may move as a consequence of the collision. But that video made it clear that a person leaning away from contact, and if I recall correctly, before contact was made, Does not negate an offensive charge; and so the lean is inconsequential. but in this video you're saying it is consequential.

[@ryanmarchione]

On play #4, if we have an intentional foul on the white player, and then a T on orange coach, how would we administer the penalties? I say order of occurence, so 2 shots for orange, than 2 shots for white, white ball at the division line?

[@BetterOfficials]

I agree!

[@drewmcdougall891]

On play #2, why were all uniform requirements for the home team being ignored? Shirts out, different colored undershirts.

[@BetterOfficials]

Looks like a scrimmage situation

[@drewmcdougall891]

@@BetterOfficials What I thought too. Just impressed they have NFHS Network coverage for that!

[@JaySeverson]

@@drewmcdougall891 Correct, it was a scrimmage.

[@deankirkpatrick7658]

On play one - I see the defender not "sitting down" but lessening the contact in a defensive way. If you are saying only contact by the torso is a charge, then a short player will never be able to get a charge by a taller person as the legs of the shooter/offensive player are sure to make that contact, especially if they jumped after the defender was in legal guarding position.

[@BetterOfficials]

Fair enough. BTW the rule on charging does say, "ART. 2 . . . Charging is illegal personal contact caused by pushing or moving into an opponent’s torso."

[@LostLakeTribune]

If a player shoots at the wrong basket and the ball goes in AFTER THE BUZZER. What is the ruling?

[@BetterOfficials]

Ball became dead at buzzer as this was not a try for goal (not thrown at own basket.) No goal by rule.

[@LostLakeTribune]

@@BetterOfficials I'm sorry, but that seems to contradict with the ruling on play #1

[@sjurpejg]

Illegal screen. Legs spread apart beyond legal rule of shoulder length and not allowing two steps in allowing defender to see screener.

[@twtweallwegot]

What is the penalty for a flagrant foul? I assuming disqualification?

[@BetterOfficials]

Yes, either for a flagrant personal foul or a flagrant technical foul, the offending player would be disqualified by rule.

[@alexislessnick5565]

Hi Greg! I had a question for you. In my last game a player tried to defend an attempt to goal with his back. Would this be a block call?

[@BetterOfficials]

Are you saying their back was to the offensive player? In order to establish legal guarding position the Torso must be facing the opponent. Although, a Defender is allowed to turn or duck to protect themselves.

[@alexislessnick5565]

@@BetterOfficials Yes. The player was trying to defend with his back facing the enemy player, and I called a blocking foul. According to the legal guarding position rule, the call would be right, if I understand correctly. Thank you for your answer!

[@calebcoale896]

Technical on the coach

[@nunayo]

On the charge call with the kid preemptively falling back, every ref in that position would call a charge. His view is blocked by a player. If I had a clean view, then I hope I would go with a no call.

[@jonathanhouser8194]

3pts.

[@joshtunnell9264]

Play 5- missed the illegal screen before the charge.

[@chrisbrooks4697]

Advantage, disadvantage, protect the shooter. The screen was illegal but was ineffective and did not cause a disadvantage or create an advantage! Good, no call!

[@darwinsanada8309]

Once coaches understand that the officials have what just occurred under control on the floor... Hopefully they will maintain control of themselves over their player being fouled... any direct statements of officials has to be addressed...

[@michaelfalkner1186]

Play 3: I think that's a pretty stone-cold flagrant, and I would've been comfortable with an ejection there. That is a highly dangerous and injurious play, and, yes, sometimes you simply have to let him go and score the two on defense in that situation. That is a foul which places the player in serious danger of serious injury. That's a flagrant foul under the NFHS rules. Play 4 (the foul portion) provides the counterexample. The coach on the floor needed to be dealt with, yes.

[@chrisbrooks4697]

The BLARGE call here (1st Charge senario), In real time, this is a charge all day long; when you see this on the court, the microsecond you can slow down in--replay doesn't matter. In real-time gameplay, it's a charge!

[@BetterOfficials]

In this case we're going to have to agree to disagree.

[@chrisbrooks4697]

@@BetterOfficials 👍

[@chrisbrooks4697]

@@BetterOfficials In the case of a player preparing to accept the charge, according to NFHS rules, a player can lean backward, laterally, or turn away; they just cannot lean forward!

[@dennishall8050]

If you call this a block, you better have your car running.

[@lstsxx]

3 points

[@Libertarian_Neighbor]

You lost me on the kid gaining position and being flying knee kicked in the chest not being a charge. The defender anticipated the flying knee to his chest and was protecting himself. It’s a charge. As a coach we teach 4 inch fall, where you “sit” after contact. You also use your arm to protect yourself. The kid was applying these fundamentals (the safe way to take charges) poorly. Still a charge to me.

[@BetterOfficials]

Fair enough, you and I will disagree on this ruling.

[@jimbamberg8424]

That is a three point goal

[@TreyThatGuy]

Play #4 10:58-11:00 : Obvious intentional foul and a technical foul on the coach for coming on the court and screaming at an official. The coach is attempting to influence the officials decision and is acting unruly and this can distract an officials ability to officiate. Technical foul on the coach for unsporting behavior with no warning. Coach loses his box privileges. I think we don’t use the technical foul enough and let coaches get away with this too often.

[@calebcoale896]

3

[@dennishall8050]

Never a block

[@BetterOfficials]

which play, what time?

[@Libertarian_Neighbor]

Totally “acceptable” by the coach. He should probably be T’d up. The only way coaches should get technical fouls is when having their players backs. Coaches need to stand up for their players, even if it means a few technical fouls.

[@darwinsanada8309]

3 point...any try or thrown ball from behind the arch scores 3 points if ball goes threw the basket

[@haroldbenjamin5626]

I would score 3

[@darwinsanada8309]

We got this coach...please back in your coaches box... at the most a warning for unsportsmanlike behavior...

[@stannwhipple870]

2 points--deflected by defender so not a try

[@darrellyoung1228]

Play 2. #1. Though rules knowledge is respected and acknowledged I’m intrigued by the differences in interpretation. #2. One must be wary about those who constantly use the term “By rule” but never state “Which rule?”. 😊 #3. As the defensive player with LGP is half the size of the player who is about to send him into the netherworld it seems reasonable that he would move (legally) to protect his life it be by falling back albeit even to an almost sitting position. #4. It appears the offensive player’s knee does contact the torso of the defense. Most officials agree “By rule” a player who obtains LGP may legally move in any direction to maintain LGP except forward, into the offensive player. Rule 4-23 especially -3 e. (Also note b) NFHS caseplay #38 p 121 REFEREE SPECIAL EDITION PREP BASKETBALL 2917-8 Play: A1 begins a drive to the basket. B2 steps into A1’s path, has two feet on the court while facing A1, and just before A1 reaches B2 B2 starts to fall backward. As B2 is falling backward but has not yet fallen all the way to the court, A2 dribbles through B2,s torso. Since B2 was not completely upright when the contact occurred who shall be assessed with the foul? Ruling: when B2 had 2 feet on the court and was facing A1 , B2 established LGP on A1. After establishing LGP there is no provision that requires defender to remain completely upright when the offensive player initiates contact with the defender. Although it may be easier and more convincing to rule a player control foul on A1 had B2 remained upright when the contact occurred, a player shall be assessed to A1 for charging into legal defender B2.

[@BetterOfficials]

I think we have some common ground here. The case play excerpt is great. You can definitely have a charge committed when the defender is: leaning, softening, sitting. But to have that charge we must have displacement. In my judgement that didn't occur on this play. Our common ground here would be the case play. Because a defender leans or sits doesn't not end their LGP status. If displacement occurs a charge should be ruled.

[@CEO504]

@BetterOfficials...can you cite the rule that mentions/requires displacement?

[@stevelatimer8719]

Easy T of coach in play 4. He was not in the court helping to prevent a fight. Clearly out of coach’s box objecting to something.

[@stevelatimer8719]

And all three officials should not be conferencing. Someone needs to be watching the players.

[@russellfinch5493]

30 Year retired IAABO official here. Play 4, the trail ruined the play. He was responsible for the bench and the coach. There was no need for him to follow all the way in and enter into a conversation. If you notice, we had some activity at the foul line between both teams while these 3 were talking about their socks. This was a potential fight situation and the trail should have made sure no one left the bench then also watched the huddle at the foul line. Secondly, no intentional was signaled which in my book is a no-no here. There is no need for a conference unless the ball went in the basket. The lead was correct in following the play to make sure nothing happened but if it was deemed an intentional foul, he should have signaled it right away. To me this reeks of officials getting together to make up their mind and or possibly be influenced by the coach. Hard foul, but I would not call it intentional. It was close. The play before, clearly intentional but again the lead was out of position a bit. When he is beat, he should have cut to the lane when he was foul line extended so that he could effectively cut the two players in half and as you say, gain an angle. Running beside them only blocks you out. He does make the quick signal but then instead of moving over to the fallen player to make sure he does not get up and get in the defenders face, he stays far away and basically uninvolved. Again, a potential fight situation. The last play, I disagree on the screening contact. The screener makes contact with the defender from the rear initially and has a very wide base with that leg pretty extended. Although the defender makes it thru the contact, it still is not incidental. I think this is illegal contact by the white player. Not there though, so I have no idea what has been going on in the game, whether it is a close game, or any other extenuating circumstances so these are tough to overrule. Main thing for me, are the officials seeing the play correctly and in the correct position. The C was right to have a whistle on the play but held off on any signal which is good. Only issue with that is that the lead was pretty far away and never moved towards the lane where he is looking thru a bunch of players. I probably would have given the call up the C even if I had a whistle on it as the Lead. I think he was to far away to see the contact on the other side of the basket. Again , just my opinion.

[@sjurpejg]

Block. He flopped.

[@markfischer1012]

#2. FLOP , unsafe landing zone for shooter , defender puts cross arms .

[@markfischer1012]

#4. Address coach , before ball is put back in play , general warning of his conduct and trust the officials ,

[@gman5413]

3 points

[@johnmegna8734]

3 points