Hard Hitting: Destroying Drum Tone? | Season Five, Episode 16

Did you know that hitting harder can actually make your drums sound thinner and less impactful? The law of diminishing returns is quite applicable here and it’s important to understand the sonic impact (ba dum tsss) of hitting harder and why we choose not to absolutely wail on the drums for our demos. This can make all the difference in how you play depending on the scenario.
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Signal chain:
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Recorded at 48kHz / 24bit
Overheads: (Matched Pair in Glyn Johns - Cardioid) AKG C314 sladl.ink/C314...
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No EQ or compression in use with drum demos unless otherwise noted
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Drums:
Pearl Masters Maple Custom Extra
Cymbals:
22” Jesse Simpson clone of old Zildjian A, 15” Zildjian “Fat Hat” prototype hihats
Drumheads:
Snare: Evans G12 / Snare Side 300
Toms: Evans G1 & G12 Coated / G1 Clear
Kick Drum: Evans UV EMAD / EQ3 Coated White Reso
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Production & Consulting: Ben O'Brien Smith @ Cadence Independent Media
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[@SoundsLikeADrum]

More is more...right? Well, not quite. Let us know about your experience with heavy hitting!

[@samuelbalavoine5031]

Counterpoint : eloy casagrande I rest my case (I see your points but it feels like Eloy is immune to anything lmao)

[@bigkickleo]

@@samuelbalavoine5031 Eloy is THE MAN!! BUT, he DOES pkay with A SH*T TON of technique!! He plays with EXTREME commitment, power, confidence and above all CONSISTENCY!! He is definitely DIGGING in and PUSHING the limits of his gear, but he is NEVER wasting any energy, nor choking out the drums or cymbals. He is the PINNACLE of heavy, power, and cleanly fast players for sure!! I cannot STAND to see "metal" drummers tapping on their drums, or triggering everything because they can't CREATE the sound with their hands. Cheers!

[@paulrevelli]

My experience is that after a certain threshold, drums just sound choked. They refuse to produce a sound that I like. It's like drum tuning; there's a sweet spot for everything, including your touch.

[@bigkickleo]

@@paulrevelli That is certainly true - BUT, depending on the drum, the shell, the hoops, the head, snare wires, and stick size - for ex.: a bell brass snare with die cast hoops and 2 ply head can take a whallop and NOT get choked out, whereas a 3ply rering drum with lighter hoops and diplomat head, etc will choke under more modest force 🤷‍♂️

[@JJPercussion1]

I'm always trying to have the same tone throughout the dynamic range 💪🏿🙌🏿

[@clayfoster8234]

I’ve been playing for 35 years, mostly rock and metal, and I would hit the drums hard. But 4 years ago I started taking lessons and really working on my technique which resulted in me playing softer but still just as intentionally. So I still get plenty loud but I’m way smoother, my flow is better, I can play longer because I’m not working as hard, my dynamics are better, and I just generally sound way more polished.

[@robertmessina6962]

I've drummed for 59 years....from experience I've found it's ALOT like golf. Don't change your swing change the club Use heavier sticks for heavy songs....try it Lighter the stick The shorter it IS in length Bohnam did not kill his heads...he hit hard but Heavy sticks

[@BeatsAndMeats]

You should totally do an episode on what you did when you were teching for Gojira… that would be some awesome nerdy stuff to hear about… the drums on that album sound SO DAMN GOOD!!

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

We’ve got some videos on that over on our Patreon.

[@992ras]

Well as recording engineer what must ppl don’t know they add drum samples over the top of the recorded drums to add more depth to the drum sounds.

[@IntoTheForest]

This perfectly sums it up! As a recording engineer, when I tell a drummer to hit harder, it’s not because I’m looking for a bigger sound, it’s because Im looking for more attack. Knowing how dynamics affect all of this is extremely important for anyone looking to make music at a professional level. Thank you for shedding light on this!

[@bigkickleo]

This is SUCH a telling comment with respect to a very "new school" approach to drumming in this age of sharing videos and the proliferation of affordable recording gear. It appears many young drummers develop their "sound" (approach, tuning methods, touch), in small bedrooms (no other players), all close micing, lots of muffling and low tunings, smaller sticks and a MUCH lighter touch than when I CAME up competing with loud amps in a garage and ZERO MICS! I was ALWAYS trying to bring out every single decibel available in my cheapo kit - wide open drums, rimshots on every snare backbeat. My 1st years in a studio, I had to learn to ratchet back on the cymbals, but keep my kick and snare solid - different days 👊🏼

[@vortexbandfinland]

I play mostly metal and find that you gotta hit the drums hard to get the energy and attack needed to sound good in a mix. Many drummers play very softly and crank up the velocity on their triggers to compensate, I don't like that. You'll never learn to use the correct amount of power. Small tapping that sounds like crap can be turned into huge cannon toms and the organic sound is lost. Such a shame. I also play motown and funk stuff by myself and find the softer dynamics more pleasing to the ear. It's all about the style and sound you want. People blame the drums too much for their unpleasant sound...

[@thetruthexperiment]

I love that during your opening demonstration you hit the snare and toms hard and then very carefully hit the $600 cymbal.

[@MikeJamesMedia]

True! You're doing great work here. Two extreme examples I've experienced... When I was in the early part of my career on the road, in the 70s and 80s, I was playing with a "show band" where we played at what I'd call a medium volume level. (This was a guitar/keyboard/bass/drums band with vocalists) Our PA-enhanced volume was about like a powerful big band, for comparison. A famous rock drummer happened to be in the audience one night, and liked some of the things I was doing. (I won't mention his name, for the consideration of his privacy.) His band was playing in huge arenas, and he had felt compelled to play as loud as possible. The result was that he had damaged his hands so much that he actually had to duct tape his sticks to his hands, because he had almost no feelings left. He knew it was tragic, and I felt really bad for him... His hands were like rough sandpaper. That alone should be a huge warning sign, for those of us who want to play for a lifetime. Comparing notes... My early influences were drummers with good technique, so I've been playing for over 57 years, can still play plenty loud enough without hurting myself, and have never had any muscle or nerve issues to worry about. The other example was casinos, in the 80s. Most of us were playing house drums, in a plexiglass "aquarium". These drums typically had heavy hydraulic heads, to absorb the abuse some drummers gave them, and also to reduce their maintenance time and cost. But... There were multiple times when the sound men told us we weren't playing hard enough, which later turned out to be a microphone or PA problem. In the meantime, we were trying, for the sake of "professionalism" and time, to accommodate them, by playing hard enough that we broke many of those heavy heads. (not good for anyone, since we weren't the problem they were chasing) Your reasoning is exactly right. Play forcefully, when it's appropriate, but assuming that you're playing with good technique, never so hard that you're going to hurt yourself permanently. Definitely NOT worth it. I also applaud what you're doing on this channel, because you're showing that you can get a great sound without over-muffling. I've never understood the chain of events where you take a drum with a great tone, muffle that tone away so you're only left with the "attack" portion of the sound, then ask the drummer to play harder, so an engineer can recreate that same original tone by adding reverb later. For the vast majority of the work I've done, a better approach is to simply get a good sound, and mix/amplify it as required.

[@robertfoshizzle]

YMMV, but here's what I've learned from nearly 20 years of playing in bands/touring/recording (not a pro, but was in pretty serious bands in my 20's): I get the best mix when I hit my kick drum HARD, toms medium-to-hard, snare medium, and cymbals lightly. I've almost NEVER been in an environment, playing or watching, where I've thought "man, those cymbals are too quiet" or "I wish there was more snare in the mix." But, in smaller venues, the lower frequencies are almost always lacking, because it takes a lot more PA power to replicate that, and most smaller venues just don't have the capabilities for that. And unless you're playing really aggressive music, save the snare rimshots for only rare occasions. Playing dynamics is one of the things most overlooked by weekend warrior drummers like myself. Wish I knew in my 20's what I know now, but oh well.

[@ericstearns170]

Dynamics, dynamics, dynamics... I played pro for many years BEFORE I learned the simple idea that force does not equate to awesome. Even in an arena setting, you can use dynamics to get the 'biggest' sound, without injuring your gear or yourself. Even after switching to playing bars and dives in my 'old age' I play even more dynamically, and usually un-mic'ed, rock, metal, pop, less about 'how hard' and more about 'how' you play. Good stuff!

[@allanshookphoto]

Someone else has probably already said it, but "you're not hammering nails, you're cracking a whip."

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Beautifully put!

[@tillsommerdrums]

Simon Phillips actually talked about this in some video that I saw. He was recording drums in a studio (not his own) and either he or the engineer said that the drums sound a little bit small/not as impactful. Simon started to play the drums a little bit softer and all of a sudden the whole kit just opened up and sounded much better. In that room the drums didn't sound good when played harder. So how hard we hit is always something to consider.

[@somefuckindumbass6547]

I think you might be thinking of Todd Sucherman on a drumeo video where he said the exact same thing. Idk I could be wrong tho I just remember it being a drumeo video

[@RorRiiZzLE]

@@somefuckindumbass6547 Agreed, I believe it was Todd on Drumeo talking about how he filled in for a hard hitter and once he took like 30% off the kit just really opened up for the mics.

[@severihanninen334]

Danny Carey said, that for this exact reason he plays thicker shells, to get more volume and never loose the impact or tone of the drum..

[@RorRiiZzLE]

Not to mention, Danny Carey’s custom sticks are unlike any others out there. They’re mostly like a thick/heavy 5B, but there’s also this small kinda dip/crease in the stick where you hold it, allowing you to keep a nice loose grip and maintain a lot of power as well. I do love them… wish I could somehow put the promark ActiveGrip on em lol and they can get a little heavy for me sometimes during long session, but I also have joint issues n stuff; so I’m sure for the average they’d be fine throughout a full show. Either way, as drummers, we should be studying all these drummers… Simon Phillips, Todd Sucherman, Danny Carey and all the greats before, after and in between (they don’t even need to be great, but just talented).

[@Spladoinkal]

@@severihanninen334 Yes, shell thickness plays a big role as well. Really thin shells resonate more but have to be hit lighter or they lose their tone. If you wanna play really hard, choose double ply heads on really thick shells.

[@thatdrummeroz654]

I stopped sharing my kit at jams and performances due to how much everyone loved bashing the kit aggressively. It wasn't just about sound, my hard earned equipment was being thrashed. As if smashing drummers are going to contribute to heads and cymbals on a kit they don't own. Even had replace my meinl cymbals. I love this channel for the value of a true drummer's touch. I'm down for asserting energy to the kit, but the drums need to breathe and last without too much constant replacement. If you're a heavy hitter, hit your own drums that way and go off the way you love. Respecting people's gear is important.

[@paultowns]

Everyone hits their drums differently. It’s ok to play how you feel. There is no right or wrong. Only expression of one’s self. But I am glad you brought up the physical side of hitting hard as well as how to not hurt your self. Keep jamming!!

[@timcloutier3729]

This is the beauty of acoustic drums. So much involved in the sound.......Sticks, heads, (shell material: fiberglass, wood, plastic, metal.) Striking force, tuning tension, (surrounding environment: outdoors, studio room, church, concert hall.) Example: What sounds "small" in your basement, with egg crates on the walls. Now sounds like cannons in a school gymnasium. Which is the beauty and fun of drum tuning. There is NO limit. 🤘🏻🥁😁

[@jdlionsound]

This has been a great watch and I love the science behind the video. Ultimately, I found that you can absolutely be a hard hitter but still achieve tonality via technique. John Bonham's a great example. Hard hitter, but perfect technique AND played the sonic spectrum with different levels of striking. To me, I found this video shows that "play like a caveman, sound like a caveman" and "play with dynamics and tonality, sound like a drummer with dynamics and tonality." With the audio engineering/science behind this video, I feel like this should make every drummer go back and examine how they play and the why behind certain technique/sonic choices they make. For myself, I found that the more wrist technique I used, the more tonality I got and I didn't have any volume loss. I found that I maximized the strength and size I have to acheieve the power I need and let the wrist motion control how much I want the drums to sing. Beautiful job on the video and thanks for reading my nonsense!

[@DZNTZ]

Another thoughtful and profound episode! I got on board early with the old-school idea of “pulling” the best sound from the drums. IME, that definitely does not mean hitting hard. There’s plenty of room for dynamics in there, it’s not about playing soft. It’s more about a synergy between drummer and instrument that brings out the rich, toneful sound you want.

[@ricosalomar]

Brilliant, again. Where were you when I needed you, again? Waaay back, when I started playing professionally, I was 15 and absolutely crushed the drums. I broke heads, sticks (2bs), cymbals(!), even bass drum pedalboards. And it was super fun, and also expensive. The thing was, the only way I could play consistently was at 110%. And rimshots every time. Lots of producers, sound techs, and other "old dudes" told me that they would sound better if I didn't hit them so hard. But I was way smarter than all those experienced pros, right? And, frankly, I got a lot of gigs because people loved my energy and drive. In the audition, the drums were explosive and monstrous. I stood out from the other guys. But, my drums never sounded as good as I thought they should. It wasn't until 30 years later that I finally buckled down and learned how to be consistent at any volume that my kit finally sounded the way I wanted on a recording. Lesson learned: keep the energy, but play them like they're musical instruments.

[@JonieBalonee]

You mentioned posture when it comes to playing and I can’t agree more. I’ve found myself working on my posture a lot after noticing a lot of drummers hunch over their snare. My double bass has become a lot more consistent almost instantly and playing is much more relaxing

[@The_Great_Whodini]

This is something that you learn in the marching arts. You want to generate velocity, but you cant stiffen up. If you are tense and pounding, even if you somehow manage to not sacrifice rythyms and tempo, you are going to be sacrificing tone and hurt yourself. Developing proper technique that wont choke the sticks also wont choke the heads. You can start to play at a massive dynamic range without losing much tone if you approach the set correctly. Its the difference between aggression and almost wreckless, and being mindful and intentional to attack each note purposefully. Faster doesnt mean louder, and louder doesnt mean to squeeze the stick harder.

[@NickPage]

I feel personally attacked :) j/k great video man

[@brendanerazo]

Man this is very helpful, and illustrates how technique and consistency really makes a difference. For example: if you dynamics are inconsistent, that kick tone or snare tone will be all over the place, even if your notes are "correct". I also think you could factor in tip size/shape, and shank length of sticks. They seem to affect some of the tone at different dynamic levels as well.

[@NewtNuke]

There's a fine line to walk with the subject of playing volume. I find myself asking students to lay in more often than ease off. Less experienced and especially younger players can often even out their sound and project more confidence by adding a little weight to their strokes. Many players don't get the needed technique to play even and confident at lower volume levels until they have practiced for years (some don't ever get that skill if they don't venture outside of heavier music).

[@stixxnstonerz3450]

I’m a hard hitter, and this has been an eye opener for me. Thx!!!!!

[@jeanclaudebertoni6262]

Even drummers like Bonham didn't hit "hard" but he hit with purpose. Nothing beats playing clean and precise and letting the drums breathe. The same applies to cymbals and the subsequent "wash" that comes with the correct amount of force.

[@pjones8404]

Back in the day, Modern Drummer had a Q & A section called "Ask a Pro". A drummer wrote Neil Peart asking for advice. His issue was that he was having trouble playing the things he wanted because he was trying to hit the drums as hard as he could. He said that every time he got to a certain physical level, his technique went out the window. What should I do? Neil's reply was simple and to the point. Stop hitting the drums so hard. There is an enormous difference between how HARD you hit and HOW you hit the drum. The notion that John Bonham was a super hard hitter isn't actually true. Watch his videos and you clearly see that he is effortless and unless done on purpose for show, he barely raised his arms up and has a very short wind up with each stroke. Someone like Tommy Lee looks like he is trying to kill his drums. Does that give him a bigger sound? I don't think so. Buddy Rich had a massive sound and his striking of the drums was all precision not all force. Cozy Powell played with massive drums and tree trunks for sticks and had an enormous sound. But again, watch him and he was very controlled and hit the drums with a clean stroke and pulled the sound out of his gear. I have never needed to hit overly hard, and never had anyone I played with ask me to ever hit harder. In fact, they were always grateful I left a dynamic range for being musical. Are there moments where I would just unleash and hit as hard as I could, sure but it was mostly for show and wasn't sustainable over a long night of playing. Again, watch some of the "Bonzo Bashes" on KZbin. So many of these big-name drummers sit down at the Bonham kit and think they need to assault the kit when actually it sounds like crap! They look impressive but the sound and technique takes a step backwards. Then a more mature drummer gets on, plays with less force yet sounds bigger and fuller. Another highly sought-after drummer was doing a session and during the first take he was hitting the drums as hard as he could. When he got into the control room for playback, no one was tapping their foot or responding to his take. That was trouble! He said, "Let me do another take and asked the engineer to pull the faders back a bit on the kit and played the exact same track the same way but pulled back on the force and intensity. He said when they played that track back, everyone was grooving on his performance and the drums actually sounded bigger and fuller than when he was hitting the drums harder. Important lesson. And who the heck wants to destroy their gear??? I don't!! It's expensive!!!!

[@ricosalomar]

100% true about Bonham! I did a few sessions where they were going to record the kit "just like Bonham," i.e., no close mics, compressed room mics, etc. Well, with me playing like a gorilla, all you could hear was HiHat and attack. It was disgusting. Part of Bonham's genius was the balance of the kit. The floor tom was the same volume and attack as the snare drum. Really a technical master.

[@MattDavisDrum]

Great video and explanation!! I have typically been a hard-hitter, playing mostly metal, so this was eye-opening and interesting to say the least. I now use different sticks and dynamics depending on the situation, but this would have been helpful about 10 years ago.

[@codycreepcore]

Really enjoyed this episode! It hit close to home as a drummer and recording engineer who mostly records punk and metal.

[@kaobeto]

I'm

[@drummachine86]

I absolutely agree - the fullest sounding snare drum hits in Logic are not those with the highest transient spikes, even though I play rimshots all the time. It´s always good to work on the consistency and the tone while not killing the drums and drumheads.

[@chrisemery3478]

Agree dynamics is everything why i play samba and jazz im a metal drummer my self beating drums too death kills the song gives you more control ..awesome job at pointing that out

[@frankspikes7858]

Great video. I learned years ago that each situation is a little different. All the variables. Is the venue indoors or outdoors. Micd or unmicd. Quiet band, or loud band. All in all, know your dynamics.

[@BeatsAndMeats]

Just another typically great video from you guys!!

[@johnreardon4944]

I used to play with old school legendary rockers in Okinawa, Japan. The best lesson I got from them about volume, at any dynamic range, with or without mics, or with any genre, is this. Hi-hat 80% power Snare 100% power Bass drum 120% power Doing a run down the toms, start with the snare at a small power and end up with the floor tom at full power. Why? Bigger drums need more energy to create the same volume. And if there ends up being a slight crecendo, it becomes exciting. Think of a subwoofer. It takes many watts to thump. Tweeters don't. So don't hit the cymbals hard at all. Use technique to get a full sound from cymbals. Smaller toms take less energy to project and/or reach its ideal full tone. Most important is the 120% bass drum and 100% snare. That's the groove. That's the balance. That's what makes customers dance. The hi-hat is for timing only. It projects perfectly fine because of it's high frequency range. So lay off of it. Wanna make a quick evaluation of a drummer? Listen to his hi-hat volume and not his speed or technical abilities. People pay money to listen to music. It's always about them, the music, and not a drummer's personal over excitement. Punk rock is a completely different topic and approach. Haha! This is my experience in a nutshell.

[@CryptoKaiser]

Internal dynamics is the Mastercraft I believe. Beeing able to alternate between heavy and soft playing on each limb independently.

[@SKragseth]

I smashed that like button!! ❤

[@UPdan]

Promark Firegrain 2B forever!! If you want good tone at low and high volume. I like that light in the back.

[@badmotorfox1097]

I've always been a drummer that, in bands, is a hard hitter (it's just the music I play, it's what works and I enjoy), but god, I did reach a point about 2016/17 where I got recurring pain in my right hand and just made it through with painkillers. In the end, I stopped being dumb and adjusted my play style to still hit hard, but not rigidly; to relax and let the sticks do more of the work I was stupidly doing with my arms instead. Pain went away, never came back, and I'm still probably the loudest player I've ever been. Also, Remo Emperor X snare head ftw!

[@TsunamiBeefPies]

When I was a kid, and just starting my awkward self-taught journey, I was at a wedding reception. I'd been given a snare drum & cymbal the previous Christmas, and I stood all night watching the drummer for the band. At the end of the night, he asked me if I was learning to play the drums. I enthusiastically said that I was, and added "I like to hit it really hard!" He smiled as he packed up his Leedy kit. "You were watching me all night, right?" "Yeah." "And you liked it? You liked what you heard?" "Yeah, you were really good!" "And did you see me play loud at all, all night?" "Well, no..." "So maybe you DON'T have to hit your drums hard. Maybe they sound really good if you don't hit them so hard." Obviously, I remember that playing tip to this day.

[@DidYouReadEULA]

Another gem, thank you.

[@waskerbasket9601]

I hit hard because I'm an angry person, I need it.

[@BCSchmerker]

+soundslikeadrum *Thanks for confirming my findings on the TAMA®/Hoshino® poplarbuilts, on Pearl® maplebuilts.* My poplarbuilts have EVANS®/D'Addario® BD22EMADHW kick batters, BnnEC2 tom batters, B14HD center batter, TTnnEC2 floor tom resonants, and S14H30 center reso. (Financial restrictions prevented upgrading the rack tom resonants from the 7 mil stockers to EVANS TTnnEC2.) The heaviest sticks I currently use on the kit are VIC FIRTH® SRHN CORPSMASTER® nylon-tip side-drum sticks.

[@brianphillips9152]

So true and great demo. Have to say as a hard rock drummer tho, sometimes it's just fun to play like this.

[@davidreidy5750]

I played in punk bands for yrs('97-'17).We were really loud.And hated playing harder than I needed to.Never broke a snare though,but did break a pedal and a really nice "22 Avedis ride.At any rate I agree with tone loss hitting those skins,I record and mix all my songs,(3 mics,3 pc kit),no need to beat the kit to death,comes out great once mixed and dynamics are involved,use the wrists not arms, don't have to hit the cymbals all the time. you'll wear yourself out.

[@samuliauno8163]

Luckily I got this lesson early in my drumming days. It really feels weird to be told to hit softer to sound bigger, but that's how it is. There are lots of videos on YT where a drummer is complementing another for hitting very hard, when it might not always complement the music they're playing. These days I'm in a metal band. I hit the drums very hard to get the high-attack sound I like along with good signal-to-noise ratio from other drums. It really should be always about the sound you're after and this video works as a nice wake-up call for sure.

[@NikoFrederiko.]

Even in a full blast setting, smashing the cymbals sounds quacha.

[@schwarzerrogen930]

I've been recording drummers for 15 years and the thing I always stress is 'Find YOUR drums' sweet spot for volume vs. tone, and learn to play in it'. Often tuning and tone issues way be caused by playing velocity, as is 'character' and the perspective of 'power'.

[@geoffcowan2384]

For me, physically low, flat drums really help with hard playing. Low cymbals help with avoiding breakage. Volume is never a problem with cymbals, so I try never to hit the edge directly and never to point the stick directly at the center of the cymbal. Every hit is a glancing blow from above. I use extra cymbals when I play loud so that I can make sure to distribute my crashing amongst multiple cymbals instead of repeatedly crashing the same cymbal over and over. This gives a hit cymbal time to recover. I play my hi hats super high and my snare super low and flat so that I have more room to swing on the snare. Also whipping the sticks, like snapping a towel, helps with volume instead of burying the sticks. I believe this helps keep the drums from choking as much. Every snare hit is a rimshot when I play loud. One last thing, I used to have a beer before I would start. I have been having issues with cramps. I was drinking water, eating bananas for potassium, some salty snacks to help keep from losing water from perspiration. I stopped having any alcohol kind of by accident (I just didn't get over to grab one) and I noticed I had zero cramps. If you are having cramping issues and you have some drinks while playing, try cutting back. One beer was enough to make a difference for me as a little older player. Swinging for the fences isn't always appropriate and as I get older, my ability to do it is starting to diminish, but man, when it is appropriate, it is the most fun thing there is to do. :) thanks as always guys!

[@ElmoSyr]

As a recording engineer what I need from a drummer is consistent loud hits on any drum, and quiet hits from a cymbal. When considering a mix, I don't have the space and lengthe for the sustain of a drum. Most of the time my work with a drummer is to maximize attack, and lessen all sorts of low mid decay and ring. Hence in my view, the opposite of this conclusion is true. What you're hearing is totally true, but in the case of a mix, there's just no room for a tom to ring out for 3 seconds. This all translates much more in a proper recording studio situation with room mics and overheads. What you want in those is 100% of the time more shells, less cymbals. The sound of a snare is in the overheads, not in the close mic. Same with toms. There's a reason why Bonham is considered to be one of the best sounding drummers of all time, and that's because he records well, his toms are high pitched, and his snare is medium to low pitch and he hits the drums HARD.

[@MiddleMalcolm]

A topic near and dear to me, not only as a player, but as a live audio tech. I have taught this concept to all my students over the years, especially because it is counterintuitive to many. I have one especially memorable experience with a mid level drummer at a live gig that I was FOH systems tech. The band's FOH mixer was having difficulty getting the bass drum sound he desired, from a PA that was entirely capable of doing what he wanted. That big, wrap around the venue kind of sub kick sound. I walked up on stage to hear the kit itself, and immediately knew where the problem was. The drum, AND the player. He was massively overplaying the attack of the bass drum. After much fussing, a reasonable sound was achieved but... The drum just wasn''t producing anything resembling what they wanted out front. All attack and thump, but none of the softer, sub push. It was being completely choked out by the impact of the player, who also had the drum tuned and set for that fast attack. The more their FOH guy worked, it was as if he was actually trying to hit HARDER. There simply was no realistic way to fix the "problem" at that point. Hopefully, lesson learned by the player. Great vid. Love a lot of the instruction content. These "real world" kind of problems/topics are super useful, and not talked about enough in many circles. 👍

[@yup466]

Cody is a great drummer!

[@TomDrums]

I recently saw a (professional touring) band where the drummer hit so hard that all the tone was sucked out of the shells and cymbals. It was painful to watch, both for his gear and his joints. For myself I started out hitting as hard as I could. Nowaways I guess I'm still a heavy hittier (I’m a hardrock guy 😊), but with much more technique behind it. No more wrist and shoulder pains, and I can hit it for hours when in the early days I was drained after 30 minutes :) Also the skins and cymbals are much happier. No more dents in the heads and I haven't cracked a cymbals since god knows when.

[@jmfs3497]

I used to play hard in my 20s, but the older I get the more I get into tuning, timbre, articulation, sustain, resonance, and dynamics. I feel like I can actually get louder now, because nothing is choked out from stuffing the heads. It sings.

[@jonhattanrai]

Listen to the sample at 4:29 Listen how it sounds clearer in the harder hitting part, because all that extra tone and sustain of hitting lighter becomes "noise". Win for the hard hitting. Of course, there are moments for light touch, and moments for extreme hard hitting and it depends on the genre you are playing, and song and speed of the notes. More notes require less sustain and higher pitch.

[@Spladoinkal]

Very insightful! I've noticed when I hit hard on my churches toms they sound awful. They're single ply heads though.

[@tribulationtruth]

Stellar!! Well done research!!

[@mattster693]

dynamics is something i gotta work on for sure, but playing loud just feels right alot of the time lol. if you need tom heads that can handle the abuse, evans hydraulic heads are just about indestructible!

[@nelldogcf]

Drumming silverback here. If anyone is going down the same path, as Cody said, please for the love of god stretch before hand. On the whole sticks thing, I would say that there are exceptions to the rule. WUV from the band P.O.D. swings for the fences each time he's on the kit and his signature stick was based on a 7a.

[@bryandrums32]

A lot of drummers could benefit from this video!!!!!! Great job!!!! 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@digitalelements010]

IMHO there is a companion episode for this topic. There are an enormous amount of drum recordings and videos on youtube that are so heavily processed. (Which I enjoy as much as the purest approach) I believe that this can fake out some of us and give the impression of very hard hit aggressive drumming when in fact, the players are letting the mics and processing do the "heavy" lifting while maintaining dynamics and control. I think it would be great to see you guys explore this phenomenon ! ... 2 cents.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

That's actually part of the basis of why we don't EQ or compress our drum demos here. In fact, the explanation behind that was in one of the very first videos we made and is something that we remind viewers of from time to time. Cheers!

[@ACLOCKWORKDRUMMER]

Great video..thanks for addressing this issue..you don't have to butcher the drums and cymbals to get a great sound!

[@MrSmashandgrab]

It always cracked me up when people would talk about a drummer and say "he hits so hard" like it was a benefit.

[@jonashellborg8320]

For your playing affecting the tome, I look for the resonant peak in the drums and cymbals z- enough force to make the heads and shell move, and make the cymbals vibrate in a pleasant way. Hitting as hard as you can does not do that, and is a great way to make cymbals sound crap.

[@artpereira]

I can't not hit hard. I simply get too into it when playing. And sometimes to get even louder I use the butt-end of the stick for my snare. I don't hit Eloy Casagrande hard (and the sound he gets is monstorous but he has the perfect hard hitting technique). Saying that, I have built a technique to hitting hard that sacrifices some techniques ... making it harder to do doubles and ghosts and whatnot but what I get from hitting hard I like. So I get all this but I honestly liked the sounds you got when hitting hard.

[@frankspikes7858]

Another thought... protect your hearing!!! I wear earplugs almost all the time. Gigs, dance clubs, loud bars etc.

[@HessianHunter]

Wailing on drums feels natural to me for the aggressive music I play. Maybe that's why I favor deep 80s style toms - I think a deep 13x9 rack tom tuned low does actually need to be hit pretty solidly to fully resonate.

[@robertmessina6962]

You should do a video With EVERY DIFFERENT TYPE OF COATED UNCOATED... DIFFERENT THICKNESS HEADS. THEY make a difference in total volume you get hitting hard

[@ivanpetrov4206]

The timbre of the drum directly depends on the force of impact and your touching. This can be compared to a voice when whispering and screaming are two completely different sounds, even if their volume is the same. The larger your dynamic range, the more different colors and tools for your creativity. Therefore, I prefer light playing and acoustic genres. At high volume, the tone disappears, we heards only the attack. And any drums (cheap and expensive) sound approximately the same as "shooting boxes."

[@Radwalls]

I believe it's the drummer's job to analyze how hard to hit the drums. If you're in a tiny room, then hitting softer is in your best interest. If you're in a massive room like Abbey Roads, then hitting hard will fill the room. I try to respect the drummer in this situation. If they are a super hard hitter, I pull my mics back from the source more. If they hit lightly, then I can get closer up to the drums. Musical genre is going to have a huge impact on how hard to hit. If someone is playing muted jazz, obviously they'll be hitting less hard than a Death Metal drummer. However, I think we can all agree that cymbals should be hit less hard than the snares, toms, and kick. The hardest possible drums to mix are ones where the cymbals are being bashed through the whole performance.

[@knuckleheadrecordingstudio2050]

Softer = more tone. Harder = more excitement. No right or wrong. Season to taste

[@TargetHHH101]

I use vic firth american classic extreme 5b theyre a little longer than a standard stick. They work for me in every application, granted there are times the 5a would be a little more ideal. but I use 2 ply heads on the entire kit and I havent ever popped a head. I find that when I watch the video playback from practices that I dont hit as hard as I should or even times where i hit a little too hard at least on the snare and kick, I find myself softening the kick drum. no idea why but I have something to work on now. I find that recording jams is a good way to identify issues. But A lot of my favorite drummers hit hard and at the end of the day, for me at least, it makes a better show. dynamics and control are important and nice to play with but rock bands need to hit hard.

[@thetruthexperiment]

I hope there is a portrait of Sting behind the cymbal against the wall. And I hope someone knows why that would be funny.

[@patrickfouhy9102]

I'd like to point out that there is a technique to playing hard, and most "hard hitting" drummers don't have the correct technique. Most of the heavy hitters I see, are targeting like 6 inches beyond their drum head, so essentially "burying the beater" on snare drums and toms, choking the life out of them. A heavy hitter who hits hard, but retains technique, can make a drum sing at much higher volume than someone who doesn't. Yes, all drums eventually choke out when hit too hard, but someone with a more refined technique at higher volumes can push that point farther. The other thing that good hard hitting drummers do, is they self mix themselves. They aren't beating their cymbals to death at the same volume as their drums. If the snare is at a 10, they are playing the hi-hat at 6 or 5 in terms of power. Interlimb dynamics really comes into play, especially when recording heavy hitters. I can say that I am on the boat of "please play louder in your videos" not because I want you to choke the drum out, I think there is a dynamic level of musicality that your videos miss a lot of the times because your forte is many other drummers' mezzo forte. Also, if your making videos for all drummers, and you're wanting to demonstrate what the drum sounds like in a variety of situations, I think you're doing a disservice to the many drummers in the more aggressive styles of music by not showing them what your very cool demos sound like at a higher volume, and even to the point of being choked out. At my studio, I record one of the heaviest hitting drummers you'll ever come across. The guy blew out the reso head on a snare drum once, and broke a lug off a snare drum in the same session. When he hits, the world knows it, but he is also able to make a drumset sing like very few drummers can because he has developed that wide of a dynamic range in his playing. He can also play whisper quiet and maintain the same musical sense in the drum. Obviously, not all drummers can do this, but I think it's important to note that there is an art to playing heavy. Another great video, thoroughly enjoyed it like I do all your videos, keep it up. Also...are you from Seattle? You look like someone who used to shop at the store I worked at for a long time. haha.

[@timtownesschweiger5366]

I've been thinking about this exact phenomenon lately, so the input couldn't be more timely. Watching live videos of modern, heavy-hitting gospel drummers, I noticed that their sound was... different from most heavy-hitting Rock Drummers. Both are obviously loud, but to my ears at least, the drums usually have more tone to them in Rock music. I already suspected it had something to do with how hard they were hitting - and the sound examples from this video definitely seem to support that hypothesis. My background is not in Gospel, but I'd wager the intensity and volume goes hand-in-hand with the crazy fast chops used by many modern Gospel drummers. Playing fast stuff around the kit basically requires a certain amount of volume. Plus, the added attack is probably even desirable when you want to go fast!

[@stereointellect]

Sometimes I like that compressed attack from hitting harder.. depends on the song etc .. Vinnie Paul comes to mind.. but playing indie vibes I prefer much more delicate touch

[@robertmessina6962]

Definitely playing drums outdoors allows you to snap the heavier sticks for nice pop. So yeah indoors you get echo outside you dont

[@RorRiiZzLE]

I love to jam out hard from time to time, but gotta respect physics to get good dynamics.

[@geoffarcuri7877]

I think your playing style and chosen gear to achieve that style are huge factors here. I play really hard and have drums, heads, cymbals and sticks that are carefully selected to achieve the tone to best compliment my drumming style. If I step behind a jazz kit and play how I play, it’s going to sound like shit. If a traditional jazz drummer steps behind my kit and play how they play, it’s going to sound like shit. This doesn’t stop at drums either. You can make this same video for guitars, bass, vocals, whatever. Get the right tools for the job and learn how to tune them according to how you play. This is why there are so many options to fit every style of play. Me playing my drums they way I play with coated G1s does not sound good at all. Change that out to EC2S Clears and a heavyweight snare head and WOW they sound amazing with great tone and sustain AND durability. Choose wisely! Creating your own identity depends on it.

[@cvrobertogiammanco]

I agree

[@DillonFinnegan]

Well shit, hitting hard is my middle name so I guess I have to watch.

[@DillonFinnegan]

And most people who “hit hard” just hit the cymbals really hard.

[@artpereira]

Dymanics have to be considered and the situation. In a live setting tone is not important as most of the time it is noise reaching the audience so the performance is the most important thing. When a drummer, like me, hits hard it has that projection thing and attack. In studio can be different. I also don't hit as hard in a studio but if you are playing any form of metal, attack is key. Last two occasions in a studio I hit hard and it came out fine but also wasn't as hard as live as I had to make the least amount of mistakes in there as you can't get away with mistakes in a live drum recording and also takes a long time. If I was in a jazz band then playing hard doesn't work. It is all about context.

[@drummercarson896]

That is the video for me. I'm usually a hard hitter

[@Leotardoification]

I don't have a count of how many times I've sat down with a band behind another player's kit have have someone in the band go "oh wow I didn't know those drums could sound good" just because I was hitting them hard/properly (not necessarily completely destroying them) and the usual drummer was playing way too soft.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Well that’s quite surprising, as the tendency is often to play too loud rather than too soft. That said, there’s still lots to be gleaned here with the tonal effect of a wide dynamic range.

[@SONORSQ2guy]

I went to a Steve Smith drum clinic a few days ago. He did not have much good to say about drummers on Instagram and KZbin that hit way too hard. He said they didn’t sound musical. Just noisy.

[@thetruthexperiment]

Weird. I was going to mention how some drummers whole thing is the showmanship of beating the hell out of drums. Already in the video.

[@carlostorres1171]

And then there's cymbals. I am constantly telling our drummers (church), "Hit the drums. Pet the cymbals."

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

We did a similar episode on cymbals on our Patreon not too long ago! VERY interesting tonal changes.

[@famitory]

any tips for looking like you're playing harder without actually playing harder? recently I shot some stuff for a music video and found that my normal playing was really boring to watch and I had to make a conscious, very tiring effort to raise my arms more.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Continue to develop the technique and control to support different velocities and stick heights. There's a limit to it, depending on what you've got to play, but loosening up and allowing for more stick rebound helps to absorb some of the energy rather than transferring it into the heads for more sound.

[@ricosalomar]

This is true, play loose. The sticks will move a lot more in the air. And so will your arms.

[@eugeniovasquez3780]

Buddy Rich to Neil Peart to Dave Grohl .... finesse to power

[@heartpath1]

This is why some drummers are studio aces because they know styles and grooves, how to tune and dampen, but maybe most importantly, proper velocity. I have this ‘argument’ with drummers all the time. When there’s nothing but transient there’s no where to go. Let the mics, room, preamps, and compressors do some work. There’s a reason giggers don’t always make great studio players.

[@jonathanreddish8590]

a lot of how hard i play has to do with the tuning, and feel of the heads... also my rock and roll fantasy....

[@orti1283]

Hitting the center of the drum plays a huge role too. Play hard close to the edge and it will sound like a whiny fart, play hard at the center and it will be powerful and sweet

[@SebCo77]

Position matters, but playing harder in the same spot will have more transient/attack and a shorter decay in comparison.

[@kayleighdrums4431]

There's something hilarious about playing loud with a traditional grip.

[@ricosalomar]

See Stewart Copeland or Jon Wurster from Superchunk and Bob Mould.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Stay tuned for an episode on that next week...

[@geoffcowan2384]

@@ricosalomar Copeland was the first person that came to mind for me.

[@mhb450]

Take away, their are gains and loses at all intensities. When mixing a busier song and denser orchestration, having a lot of sustain and body is not what you are looking for typically. You end up using transient designers to increase attack and reduce sustain. Finding the balance between sustain/body and attack is the key.

[@NacekO]

I think Eloy Casagrande is the exception. That dude hits like a beast but damn he sounds good :D To my ears at least.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Just to be clear, hitting hard doesn't mean you won't sound good. What we're demonstrating here is how hitting harder alters the sound and this is worth taking into account as you tune your drums, choose your drumheads, and ultimately play in a given scenario.

[@NacekO]

@@SoundsLikeADrum clear as day :D I completely understand that what you guys are doing in all your videos is educatring us on the possibilities of achieving different sounds. Hitting hard works for certain situations but not for others. I know of a few drummers that don't understand context and just play hard all of the time. Even in metal music you have to adapt if there is a more subtle part in the song hitting hard won't help. Now on a side note. I want to thank you guys for all of this awesome info you're putting out there. I myself am not a drummer, I'm a guitar player. But I watch your videos because I record bands in my spare time and the drummers I get are very stubborn and don't want to learn anything new about their instrument and ussually their tuning sucks :D I got tired of bad drum sounds so I decided to listen to the guys with good sounding drums so I can tune my drummers' kits and get good sounds :D Seriously thanks so much.

[@LDdrums20]

It looks good on stage but one can get tired very quickly. Plus if you don't have good technique you can damage your drums.

[@Palefirecreative]

That’s tension, not force.

[@LDdrums20]

@@Palefirecreative yeah you are right

[@geoffcowan2384]

It's all about relaxation. If I find myself tensing up, I make a concerted effort to relax, especially my shoulders.

[@808drumz9]

I could never figure out how people hit so hard while playing traditional grip.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Next week’s episode covers that a bit but, in short, it’s all about developing the technique.

[@PintsofGuinness]

maybe in a studio environment, but i promise you in a live concert environment noone gives a shit about that tiny bit of tone loss. they will however give a shit if you look bored and tired on stage.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

I promise you that being mindful of these factors will help improve your playing and make you a more enjoyable musician to play with. It’s not just about the change in tone (as is described later on in the episode). As for looking bored, well, yeah. They’ll also care if you fail to do a bunch of other things that would be consistent with delivering a quality performance.

[@DZNTZ]

You’re right that the subtle differences tend to disappear in a (big) live mix. BUT, sweaty physicality does not equate to entertaining. Some of the best drummers bring a compelling intensity without swinging hard- Cody, Carter McLean, Max Sansalone are good examples. They are fully involved, in the groove, and driving the music without hitting hard. I don’t think anyone ever left a show thinking “Man, that drummer REALLY raised his hands super high! I got my moneys worth”

[@Palefirecreative]

Agreed. What’s mostly being discussed here is tension, not the force of the stroke. But it’s good advice for bedroom and YT players. For live players, hitting hard is where the fun is🤘

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

@Pale Fire Creative - This is physics, so not exactly unique to playing in a bedroom or for videos on KZbin. As for tension vs. force, it's a balance but the velocity of the impact affects the force, which affects the tone and there's nothing wrong with being mindful of that regardless of how/where you are playing.

[@ricosalomar]

Then one must be a professional and look excited and amped, while still making the instrument sound good.

[@malinwj1167]

I don't know - saw a Vinnie Appice clinic, and he absolutely tore up the kit. It sounded great. I asked him if he always plays that hard - whether it be live or in the studio, and he answered "yes"

[@thetruthexperiment]

Obviously, if they’re your drums, do what you want. Cymbals can last a lifetime or they can last a week.

[@Catinthehackmatrix]

Anyone else have more of a problem hearing yourself and the music while practicing without anything mic'ed?

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Do you mean with other musicians or a recording?

[@eofprod]

Eloy Casagrande is laughing right now

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Oh?

[@davidpatrick2997]

Idk brother. Sounded pretty killer when you were bashing on them drums.

[@josefelix7313]

It's ok to "spike" them, but not all the time....