You’ve gone too far | Season Five, Episode 11

This is a problem that plagues every drummer at one time or another and many people continue to suffer from it in years (or decades) into playing. You may have heard the phrase, “a little goes a long way,” but not necessarily realized that it’s directly applicable to tuning (and adjusting) drums. More often than not, we’ve found that this is the single greatest mistake contributing to the frustrations of tuning.
PATREON:
This season is made possible by our Patreon supporters. Join us on Patreon for access to exclusive content such as Cymbal Sounds, our long awaited cymbal series, and MUCH more: sladl.ink/Patreon
PRODUCTION PARTNERS:
GIK Acoustics (sonic treatment): sladl.ink/GIK
AKG Audio (microphones): sladl.ink/AKG
Evans Drumheads: sladl.ink/Evan...
ProMark Drumsticks: sladl.ink/ProM...
Signal chain:
Mics - Focusrite Clarett 8Pre USB & OctoPre - MacPro w/Pro Tools 2022.5
Recorded at 48kHz / 24bit
Overheads: (Matched Pair in Glyn Johns - Cardioid) AKG C314 sladl.ink/C314...
Snare, Toms: AKG C518M sladl.ink/C518M
Kick Drum: AKG D12vr sladl.ink/AKGD...
No EQ or compression in use with drum demos unless otherwise noted
Acoustic Treatment:
GIK 242 Acoustic Panels: sladl.ink/GIK242
GIK 4A Alpha Pro Series Diffusor/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIK4...
GIK Evolution PolyFusor Combination Sound Diffuser/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIKE...
GIK Tri-Trap Corner Bass Trap: sladl.ink/GIKT...
Drums:
Pearl Masters Maple Custom Extra + 1970’s Ludwig LM400 Supraphonic
Cymbals:
22” Jesse Simpson Clone of old Zildjian A, Zildjian 15” ‘Fat Hat’ Prototype hihats
Drumheads:
Snare: Evans G1 / Snare Side 300
Toms: G1 coated & G12 coated / G1 clear
Kick Drum: Evans UV EMAD / EQ3 Coated White Reso
Hosted by: Cody Rahn
Production & Consulting: Ben O'Brien Smith @ Cadence Independent Media
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*NOTE: Troll comments will be deleted. You're welcome to disagree with whatever you like but let's keep the conversation civilized and focused on drums.
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[@toomdog]

Man, I remember trying to tune my snare when I was already a somewhat experienced player. I spent hours on this thing and it was just not behaving itself. I brought it in to my local music store and the resident drum guru started checking lugs. Turns out I had every other lug about a fifth higher than the rest. I just couldn't tell the difference after fussing with it for so long. There were other times when I just couldn't get it to sound right even though everything told me it was in tune. So I brought it down and this guy hit it once, and it sounded perfect. He said, "I don't hear anything wrong with it." I said, "Neither do I, but why didn't it sound like that when I was tuning in my living room?" Your state of mind while tuning makes such a huge difference.

[@Howitchewstofeel5gum]

You're forgetting about the difference the room makes, which is huge. That snare, at that tuning, may have very well sounded better at the music shop than in your living room.

[@bakerfam1000]

@@Howitchewstofeel5gum exactly. I worked at guitar center and I had a lot of people return drums because “it doesn’t sound like it did at the store” 🙄

[@jonautry]

@@Howitchewstofeel5gum Yeah, it’s crazy how much of a difference this can make, especially in small rooms (standing waves) where resonances can change unbelievably depending on where in the room you are.

[@jjdrumworks]

It's amazing how much of a difference like a 1/16 of a turn on a single tension rod can make.

[@patrickshawsaxdrums3323]

I literally had this today on my 12inch Tom, was sounding abit naff, gave it a little nudge up an sounds loads better now

[@djjazzyjeff1232]

Especially "traditional" tension rods. I have some toms that have really coarse threads, and like you said, I usually go to what I call "super finger tight" where you do finger tight, then the rick beato thing where you press on the hoop and turn the lug a little more finger tight, then I go literally about 1/8th of a turn and you're REALLY close, this is with clear emperors on the batter.

[@laquerhead024]

How about a video about damaged drums (i.e. out of round, uneven/damaged bearing edges) and their relationship to tuning, and what your seeing on the heads (i.e. lug tension, sound, etc)?

[@JuanSanchez-eu8fw]

I've never thought I could "over-correct" my sound. This was definitely valuable information though as i have students and want to teach them everything I know.

[@TsunamiBeefPies]

It was a long time ago. I had to change a head in the middle of a gig. In my haste, I made a couple turns too many on each lug. When I hit the drum, it sounded laughable. Once again, in haste, I overcompensated and had the drum tuned so low that the head buzzed even on a gentle hit. Despite the growing impatience of my band mates (the crowd was surprisingly on my side, which was fun), I slowed down, and ended up with a nicely tuned drum. Ever since then, I've always taken the time to tune carefully. As you said, it can go surprisingly quickly once you get used to doing it. Another great video from you guys. I really do love this channel, and I look forward to your releases on Tuesdays.

[@willymccabe6602]

A lot of inexperienced drummers often times overlook the relationship between tension on the snare wires and tension on the snare batter head. Experimenting with how they work together can sometimes lead to surprising results.

[@mohddalibinzali1165]

How can we experiment that thing if Dw, Yamaha already made it perfect. So, i think we just can tuning and dampening thats it, we cant do more instead of that.

[@artcorvolet]

@@mohddalibinzali1165 DW😂😂😂

[@davidperez5089]

I remember certain feels of different snares when at jam sesións. I've been lucky for the most part. Most drummers have good taste with SDs.

[@DaveyMulholland]

@@artcorvolet eh?

[@artcorvolet]

@@DaveyMulholland DW 🤣🤣🤣

[@jonashellborg8320]

Bingo! Wow. I was just thinking about this on Sunday, setting up a house kit before a gig. Toms were wild, floor tom so low it had a plastic sound and sound wouldn’t travel. It all sounded very wrong, so it was tempting to make big changes. But, I remembered previous advice from this channel, and did careful tapping on the heads, making tiny changes whilst tapping, checking batter, resonant side, batter again etc until the sound was full and resonant. And because I didn’t panic and just methodically worked through the issues, it only took about 5 minutes for 3 toms.

[@The_Great_Whodini]

The snare wire tension reminds me of how marching snares are tuned, you loosen the guts sometimes until they arent touching and then hit the batter head with one hand and tightening the guts with the other so you are hearing the change in real time, go until its choked, then back off until it sounds good again... You end up with a better understanding of the range of tension between too wet and choked. I now do the same thing every time im adjusting my snare tension after a head change.

[@jamesdennett196]

I'll definitely give this a try. Makes a lot of sense. Thanks

[@Chiroman527]

SLAD, great advice as usual. Drum Tuning is an ART!! I'm only a recreactional 71 yo drummer who resurrected playing after 50 years . Tuning is Illusive to me. You said...."Never Be Happy". I'm learning (didn't know anything about tuning in 1966-69 ), from watching you and some others . FTR, the floor Toms (14 & 16 inch) maple kit, are the most difficult for me. But using 2 Moongels and an Evan E-Ring help considerably and Evanx Coated Ec2s batter heads . I use the E-Rings on the two Rack Toms too (10 & 12 inch) but using EC2s Clear batter heads. I don't Mic or Eq the drums in any way. Play about 1 hour a day to MY Music for retirement pleasure / hobby. THX for your Info and helpful Videos.

[@tillsommerdrums]

Super important advice!! I learned this the hard way when I bought a lovely Sonor Designer 14x6 Birch shell. It has the Sonor Die Cast hoops on. Since these hoops are very stiff, the smallest increase or decrease in tension on one of the tension rods made a huuuuge difference for the other tension rods and over all sound. I never could get the snare to a sound that I liked and was super frustrated. I then started to do just super small turns and that made it soooo much easier to tune. I thought I was good at tuning (hence my frustration) but that really showed me that my method was still kind of brute forcing it. Small turns make it much easier to listen to the drum and almost feel where the tension is and where you have to go to get the desired results

[@MrRLRRLL]

Great videos !! I’ve found that the type of drum heads used on the Tom’s can make a huge difference in the sound….I’ve been playing and tuning drums for 50+ years and still struggle with tuning to get that ultimate sound….it’s a continuous lifetime thing !!

[@LedWolf7]

I appreciate that their is no “wrong” way, just different and sometimes different is good, I like a bandana on my snare and hydraulics on my toms really dampened and my friend really knows how to tune openly to where he wants

[@goodtimejohnny8972]

Hope your feeling better. Take care, great video as usual.

[@marcdinowitz2094]

I’ll spend hours tuning thinking I made a breakthrough. The next day i sit down and find fault and start over. Tuning drums is a journey within itself. Also the fact that they don’t stay in tune to make it that much harder.

[@Chiroman527]

Marc, Exactly. I'm a resuuercted Recreational Drummer having picked up playing again after 50 years (1969). I'm 71 now. Tuning drums is a challenge to me, especially that back in my teenager days - I just played and knew nothing of Tuning (1966-1969). Now I'm experimenting with different Heads (batters mostly) and try to achieve that Doooo, Doooo sound Jared on DRUMEO talks about , on the Toms. The snare is a challenge as well. I currently own a PDP Concept Maple 6 Drum Kit (bought Used at GC in 2021) and also added a DW Design Series Nickel over Brass 14 X 6.5 Snare. I don' use Mics, or Eqs , just play to MY Music about 1 hour a day. But like many people with OCD, like me, "perfection" is the driving Force :):). I'm still experimenting. And i find the same as you do....Tuning Drums is a Journey within itself. One day they sound ok to me, the next not so !!

[@ACLOCKWORKDRUMMER]

Great video..well done!

[@jmfs3497]

I've been playing drums religiously for about 10 years (and actually tuning them for the last two, lol). I just noticed during a weekly rehearsal that holding my finger lightly in the center of the head enabled me to feel the the head begin to vibrate more and more the closer I brought the lugs into tune. It was the best my drums have ever sounded to me that rehearsal. I almost never bothered to mute the center of the heads, I just tapped and tuned until I liked the sound. The only reason I did it was because the rest of the band were chatting, playing videos for each other, and warming up all at the same time and I couldn't really focus on the sound of the drum head.

[@toomdog]

Yeah, this is a great technique my drum teacher taught me. It cuts the frequency in half so it's a higher pitch (making it easier to hear a difference in pitch) and it muffles some of the extraneous frequencies that speak up when you're tuning. I don't use it all the time, but sometimes it makes a huge difference.

[@warrenk9587]

Good video. Something I learned when I got an acoustic drum set was how much there is to tuning a drum, especially a snare drum because of the snare wires. It's good to spend some time working on one drum for a while to see where it sounds good. Like with anything worth while, you have to invest in it.

[@jamesdennett196]

This is something I've come to realise I need to do. Spend a good amount of time with all my drums, setting them up from scratch and concentrating on listening to the them throughout the process. Tuning is quite intimidating for me, and the more videos I consult, the more I convince myself I will get it wrong and have got it wrong in the past. I focus too much on getting it evenly tuned, rather than pleasingly tuned. I know for me, trusting my ears is an issue.

[@warrenk9587]

@@jamesdennett196 It definitely takes time to find what works for you. There are so many videos to watch and so many opinions about tuning drums that it will make your head spin. Try different heads and spend time making small adjustments. This video and chanel have been the best to watch. Make the drums sound good to you.

[@icemandrummeth7420]

Is it possible to tune a kit to the room you’re playing in? If so could you do a video on that? Explaining the methodology and sound you’re going for. Thanks.

[@buckjohnson2836]

Had this exact problem at rehearsal last night. Last week the snare sounded great, just where I wanted it. Last night it was sounding a little dead with no ring to it. I did an overall check on each lug and it sounded a bit low so I did a 3/4 turn on each all the way around. That was a mistake. It sounded choked, lost its body and then the snares got all crazy, so I started mucking with snare wires, etc etc. It got in my head and was not my best playing. Cody is spot on here, small increments is really they key. Also, I really find that the same room can sound different from one day to the next given temp, humidity, changes the guitar player made, the bass player made etc etc. Check out videos by Kenny Sharrets as well as this channel. He is one the best drum techs in the industry and he really teaches small increments.

[@drummercarson896]

another awesome video

[@ristretto24]

Do you have any videos on how to get more "tone" and less "snare" sound från the snare drum when playing live situations un mic'd. I often feel like the snare sounds like someone just hitting the snare head and wires when listening from a distance in the room.

[@szumiaceczaszki60]

I'm not an experienced drummer but I surely get a lot drive from trying setups and fiddling around with the drum kit as a whole, and I was very surprised to find that even veteran drummers are struggling with what you're saying today. Sometimes I'd love to suggest something but I feel weird schooling/wisecracking on somebody with more stage experience than me. Usually it's about age/choice of batter heads or too much choke, but tuning also comes up a lot.

[@wiilamsteinkamp7905]

I've been tuning using mics and headphones for a long time. What your ears "see" is completely different than a close mic. Having spent years as a live sound mixer I've learned how much the environment has an effect on the drum sound also. Having some type of dampeners available is critical for those rooms with weird low/mid standing waves or on a gig with an indifferent sound person. lol

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

That's great and definitely a whole different topic that we've addressed in the past. We've found that if you start with your ears and get a good sound in the room, it's quite easy to capture that with mics as long as you're considering the context of the space and, again, making incremental adjustments and checking the results along the way. You don't always need to use additional muffling material to achieve a similar result though- just a bit of tweaking of the reso vs. batter and individual lugs can mitigate these issues. Cheers!

[@UPdan]

Could we see and hear a comparison of say for example, ProMark firegrain 2b vs lighter 5b, both rebound on cymbals and drums? I’m hearing a surprisingly superior tone, clarity and brightness using the 2b. Would appreciate your demonstration.

[@gyrran]

one trick/technique i use on both stringed instruments and drums i to always tune/apply tension from "below". for example, if i wanna tune a lug down a 1/4 turn, i'll maybe go 3/8 down, and back up to 1/4, to eliminate slack that will even out during playing and fall flat from the intended position. i find that this works very well for the snare wires aswell.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Agreed!

[@cajonosaurus]

Hey Cody, I gotta tama superstar hyper drive, I cannot get my 10 "Tom to a good place I'm using g2 clears over g1 clear it's only 6.5 shell, I generally have reso looser, but it's either barking on the bottom but w/die cast hoops if I go up to far then the things choked an sounding like dog shit any advice? Many thanks, Steve. Buy the way u gotta smashin little show there, top marks!!!!!!!!

[@leeasbury7273]

Love these KZbin videos. Look forward to every Tuesday! Wish I could afford to be a patreon.patron.. thanks. Maybe soon I can be a patreon member.

[@BadChizzle]

I know the feeling. I’ve got $ going in so many directions, yet I’d like to contribute too. As you say… maybe some time in future.

[@jaggeh3340]

My snare buzz situation drives me up the wall

[@timdrums1]

Hey there - what an excellent video thank you! Can you tell us the exact drum sizes you have there?

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Thanks! 14x5.5" snare, 12x8" tom, 16x13" tom, 22x16" bass drum.

[@timdrums1]

Sounds Like A Drum the toms sound magnificent! What made you opt for a 16 x 13 floor tom? I’ struggle with overtones from 16x16 and 14 x 14s.....your toms just sounds resonant and warm with zero overtones and no damping!

[@don8635]

Hi! I wanted to ask that question for long time. Its about the way you set up your hihat. As seen in 1:20 for example, your bottom hat always sticks out making sort of a "lip". Is it intentional choice? I couldnt find a lot of debate about this, and your hihat setup video doesnt cover this topic. I would love to hear some of your opinion on this topic in terms of sound and playability. Some drummers hate it saying it chips out sticks or can damage cymbals. Have a great day ;)

[@don8635]

Its also about the hihat tilt screw close vs away from you, i suppose.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

We were just having this discussion the other day and I was teasing Cody about being "wrong" with his chosen setup. That said, it seems to work for him though I prefer to set my hihats up so that there isn't any "underbite" facing the area that I'm playing most frequently. Cheers! -Ben

[@don8635]

I think there are so many aspects to hihat setup and operation that it can become underwhelming. Even something like that changes the feel and sound, especially when half open. Thanks! Really interesting topic.

[@drumcoversbysean9802]

What are the red pieces you are using on the snare stand holding the rack Tom?

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Those are TrueVibe isolation mounts by TnR Products. They’re an absolute must-have if you’re placing a tom in a snare basket. They also make fantastic isolation mounts for floor tom legs. They enhance the resonance and therefore increases projection while also expanding the possible tuning range.

[@drumcoversbysean9802]

@@SoundsLikeADrum nice...thanks for the info. They have been ordered👍

[@BadChizzle]

Cody… I realize you don’t usually respond to comments. That’s Cool, but still, as a beginning Drummer with many decades of Guitar tuning experience under my belt… tuning toms is crazy! I’ve watched a lot of videos, with many approaches… and I’ve gotta give it up to you guys who can do it and do it well and quickly! Ha ha… once in a while I get lucky and one of my toms sounds really Magical to me. But most of the time I’m head scratching. 😵‍💫 Thanks for trying to help me out. I do make an effort at trying your suggestions for ways to get it right. I’ve got to say… I remember how long it took me to get my Guitar tuning ear developed… I just never thought I’d be starting so close to square one again with Drums. I was truly hoping there would be much more of a carry over of usable skill from one to the other. But seriously, if I had to tune each Guitar string from six or eight… or even ten different directions… it would be crazy town. Thanks for the videos! I’ll eventually get the hang of it all. Climbing another mountain is good for me… right?! Ha ha

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

It's quite the journey, for sure! Don't discount the value of your time spent with a guitar (tuning it and simply playing). Listening to pitch, even passively, can have quite a positive impact on your drum tuning. As with everything, practice and experience transform the 'challenging' into the 'straight forward'. Cheers! -Ben

[@williamfotiou7577]

A little off topic, but, I made the wife and I a couple of after dinner adult beverages and then turned this on. Since you invoked the great James Brown, I must add: "Ow, I feel good". I'm also sitting next to one of my supras!!! 🥁🥁🥁

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Cheers to you, good sir! 🍻

[@don8635]

Video idea: tuning toms to fresh drumhead pitch. Sounds like fun, most of the time set of different size tom heads seems to have reasonable intervals between them. I dont know if when mounted on the drum head pitch is still a factor but the topic sounds interesting.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

As in getting the resonant pitch of a head prior to mounting and choosing to tune the head to that pitch on the drum? Haven't heard that one before...

[@don8635]

Me too, i dont even know if it makes sense. But sounds fun 😆

[@jcdrums2798]

le plus court chemin vers la satisfaction, c'est la patience!

[@Wyrdbard]

One issue I've run into that's in direct correlation with lug tension is bent rims. Because of the out-of-round condition of the hoop, the tension on a given lug will differ in order to get similar pitches in relation to the other lugs. You did a much better job explaining this relationship in Season 3, Episode 24. Sounds Like A Drum It's Not you, it's your hoops. (Season 3, Eps. 24): kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5CWlHyKbq2FpqM This can cause hours of frustration when trying to get a decent tune on any given drum. If you don't have the funds to immediately replace the damaged hoop, I have since found another drum channel by "rdavidr" where he demonstrates how to fix a bent rim. Rdavidr How to fix a Warped Drum Rim: kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y3q4eaKdjbaFmpI I very much love both of these channels and always find something new to learn. Thanks for all the great information and videos.

[@bakedalaska4363]

Very much appreciated content but a $99 tune-bot prevents all of this agonizing in the first place and leads to a killer overall sound that years of tuning by ear may never achieve. I don't buy the argument that tune-bots are unaffordable either. If you've got the money for a drum set and can afford to replace the heads and sticks every couple of years, you've got the money for a tune-bot.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

The two instances demonstrated in this episode would still apply even if you were forgoing the use of your ears in favor of a quantitative measurement device (though, good luck using a Tune-Bot for snare wire tension...). These tools can be great to employ but not at the expense of learning how to use your ears. Time spent practicing tuning has a multitude of benefits whereas tuning based on pitch prescriptions can be highly misleading, creatively limiting, and rarely has any other benefits beyond aiding you in tuning. Sure you could invest in a tool but why not also invest in yourself so you can enjoy the benefits of a more attuned ear?

[@bakedalaska4363]

I appreciate the thoughtful reply and acknowledge that a tune-bot is no prescription for snare wire issues. It's important to point out to anyone reading these comments that a tune-bot does not create dependency as far as tuning goes - quite the opposite. The more you use one and practice the craft of tuning, the better you become at it. Furthermore, your ears become accustomed to pleasing pitches and complimentary intervals so much that even if you stopped using one you would be a much better tuner had you never used one in the first place.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Okay, so we've gone from the process of tuning being "agonizing" to something worth practicing as a craft. This seems a bit more in-line with what we cover here and so I don't think that negates the value of what was presented in this episode or any others Of course, you can also save that $99 and practice the craft without a Tune-Bot...but to each their own.