HardLore: "Bad" Albums by Great Bands

Colin and Bo discuss "Bad" albums by great bands across all spectrums of music. Bad is in quotes because in these cases, it was merely the perception of the critics and audiences at the times of release for the albums being discussed, but doesn't speak to the objective strengths of each.
The majority of this episode offers thorough defense of some of the most panned releases in the history of metal/hardcore/punk/rock music.
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[@knotfest]

Get 20% OFF @manscaped + Free Shipping with promo code HARDLORE at MANSCAPED.com! #ad #manscapedpod

[@thehalfnerd2221]

I love listening to this podcast because of just how passionate and knowledgeable Bo and Colin are. They’ve managed to make this both entertaining and edifying for any heavy music fan. Truly one of the best heavy music podcasts around!

[@newethic85]

colin genuinely hurt about pop star truly amazing

[@keyofevergreen]

Metallica was my first concert ever (2004 era). I was 11 at the time, and wasn't allowed to go to concerts. In order for my dad to change my moms mind, he showed her S&M, and was like "this is what the concert will be like". She said yes. Within 2 minutes of being there, I saw a lot of shirts being lifted. I was a changed man. It was nothing like S&M haha

[@Mikel209]

Same, first concert was Summer Sanitarium in SF. Metallica, limp bizkit, linkin park, deft ones and mudvayne

[@JLVCII]

@@Mikel209 stackeddddd

[@cheezdip420]

“In 2001, hash pipe and hatebreed were the same thing” I truly felt that, he just like me fr

[@Carlo.WTF416]

Having not seen the OG tweet, I can tell you for sure that 8 months after seeing this, “couple tracks” has 1000% changed my life’s trajectory lmao

[@wtfbrblolbbq]

Crowbar confirmed the hardest. To add. I got into hardcore from the metal side of things and about 15 years ago, after years of seeking breakdowns only, realized Crowbar had already written the hardest ones of all time. Weird how listening to Crowbar as a metal and then hatdcore kid I got two totally different things out of it. Also, hate5six should be credited for the Crowbar appreciation revival after their This is Hardcore footage. Just stellar.

[@the_real_tay_loud2072]

I had the same experience as well as Dying Fetus and Suffocation😂 I was into metal as an early teen and got into hardcore in my later teens and I didn’t look back

[@js6527]

Colin was NOT lying about that Crowbar Cemetery Angels breakdown. I may never recover.

[@chrisp464]

just listened to it myself, holy shit

[@jmskater777]

They played it on their previous tour and GOOD LORD it was heavy..

[@joshgodbey7801]

I remember that song, and totally didn't realize how fucking hard it actually went.

[@Defleshuary]

When Crowbar breaks it down they do NOT fuck around.

[@JUGGGSGOTCHYA]

Had never heard that track before, holy hell, it was crushing. I need to listen to more Crowbar, clearly.

[@DBAnthony90]

Respect to Bo for riding for Alkaline Trio. Play Colin Goddamnit, that's an undeniable punk record.

[@8195229]

I’m 100% down for a some kind of monster watch along. That sound like a good time brother.

[@_antisocial__]

I love the crowbar mentions, one of my favorites for a long time.

[@deadharvest29]

Same

[@cfhsthrn]

Cemetery Angels is one of hardest breakdowns ever and for sure a top 4 Crowbar song! Sever The Wicked Hand might be Master Killer tier...

[@jbasti227]

Loved the AFI tangent. Would REALLY love to see an AFI-centric episode. Diving deeper into their discography (maybe even pre TAOD/STS), how they influenced you guys, etc. I could listen to that all day.

[@tomgun8146]

Can't wait to hear about the STS 20th anniversary show

[@jbasti227]

@@tomgun8146 Same dude. Luckily I was able to find a full upload of the show on KZbin. Really hope they do a full tour for it.

[@RawSharksJournal]

"..is the Master Killer of.." is slowly taking over my life

[@BigMacUpperCut]

Ah man, I fucking love HardLore. Can’t wait for the Some King of Monster watch-along lmfao

[@marcstromberg]

I am so happy to have you in my life. Episodes like this keep me company during my endless hours of drawing, without making me feel alone, and helping me keep my head in focus. Love you two as hosts. It's just like having you two hanging out in my drawing room with me, making me feel included. So, thank you and endless gratitude from one hardcore lifer illustrator in snowy Sweden.

[@8195229]

When Crack The Skye came out a good amount of Mastodon fans we’re not for it. Now it’s considered one of their bests.

[@olliepops1124]

Blood Mountain really made you excited for the future of Mastodon, even to folks who thought the previous releases were all-around better. When CTS finally followed it up, I think everyone was befuddled. I still haven’t been able to dig it after returning to it multiple times over the years though honestly.

[@nathanrinard429]

Cannot wait for the day Davey Havok is on the pod

[@sMoKEy131]

For me Crowbars`s "The Cemetary Angels" Breakdown at the End is one of the best breakdowns ever! "Bring it down" Holy Fuck 🤯btw. The whole Album is dope!

[@ZachyStugotz]

That AFI lore straight blew my mind. Incredible.

[@DrTabarnak]

I've never agreed more than when Colin said "I don't like things to sound clean." and when he said he likes the human error. Organic > perfection

[@ryanharris9910]

Seeing how Colin is when he is genuinely angry is hilarious and kind of scary. I believe he would have killed Bo if he were in arms reach.

[@ACovertShovel]

Bo would’ve been in real Harms Way

[@the_real_tay_loud2072]

@@ACovertShovel you crazy son of a bitch you actually did it!

[@fleshrot52]

Also, Dying Fetus just consistently puts out great album after great album. They would be my choice for longest most consistently very good.

[@prof1389]

- VISION OF DISORDER: From Bliss To Devastation - CANDIRIA: What Doesn’t Kill You - INTEGRITY2000 (this was mentioned but not discussed) The first two albums I like but they’re also my least favorite in each band’s discography. In both cases, also a dramatic change as opposed to an evolution. If there’s a part two of this topic, hopefully these are discussed.

[@iancraig5415]

To its credit, the main riff of the St. Anger title track goes stupid hard Edit: bo thinking death magnetic isnt great is criminal and colin loving crash love has grown my respect for him immensely. Also meshuggah deserves a spot in the pound for pound discussion. The shit they were putting out in 98 still sounds wild by today standards.

[@kierenbuckley370]

movies can be objectively bad and so can music nothing should be above criticism

[@tru_squid8641]

I catch myself listening to dio era sabbath more than Ozzy era, shit rocks

[@geddyleesowlnose]

Man you guys still salty with ozzy 🤣

[@teeth.0f.g0d]

1:14:43 I actually saw the Jerry-fronted iteration of Misfits with his son on guitar in a 500 cap basement club in 2015 playing the entirety of Static Age as well as all the hits. Ngl they went hard as fuck

[@nicolasburroughs2823]

AFI is such an interesting group. Being from Lake County, those dudes are the musical crown jewel of the entire area and always have been. Never has a band from the triangle gotten even half as close to the recognition they have.

[@psalmsofmiseryaz]

Lake county? Is that east bay?

[@AndrewJShirley]

I knew the fact about Hatebreed being played during the AFI video too.

[@MrFonseca75]

My favorite Napalm Death album is most people’s least enjoyable. Words from the Exit Wound

[@olliepops1124]

Great record

[@dudenamedskip]

In Reverie from Saves The Day is such a great record... One of my favorite vinyls that I own, along with the Sefler 7".

[@Defleshuary]

Metallica does play some St. Anger live. James quoted on the album “Eh, it’s honest. You might not identify with it, or you don’t like the sound, but that’s where we were, and that’s what we put out. It’ll have its time, maybe. Maybe not!” Live he has introduced Frantic as "from your favorite album" and gave a little laugh.

[@carlosq1020]

It’s on sight for Henry Peterson

[@BabyfaceThompson]

I fully stand with Bo here on the parody music shit. "Spinal Tap" is the only good one.. I NEVER go to music for giggles..

[@shaka_lutherking7152]

Good Music that's also funny is great such as Bands like Tenacious D. Parody bands are funny for a minute but it's really hard to take it seriously. Steel Panther is borderline cringe but they're all talented af and actually genuinely hilarious in interviews so I like em, but honestly I kinda like just watching interviews on them more than I listen to their music lol

[@joaocarlosmartinramosjr9782]

Exodus in Big Four. Anthrax stuck longer with heavy and speed metal before among the living and Exodus been thrash from day one.

[@markshadows3667]

Glad to see Burials get some love. Ive been an AFI fan since seeing then live in 98. Ive loved them through all their changes. And Burials is imo the best album since STS. Lyrically maybe the last album that Davey put his heart into. Just a sad, hopeless and dark album. I haven't liked a record as much since then.

[@jasonford8328]

@knotfest Eric Arce was the drummer for Devil’s Rain. He’s not Jerry’s son. He played for Murphy’s Law, Merauder, Skarhead and Crown of Thorns.

[@TheGutterComics]

Why's the Disharmonic Rust episode gone?

[@Metalslime420]

Cemetery Angels hardest breakdown of all time

[@joshholton7542]

I am 100% with the Cave In record - great record. Many wouldn’t agree, but me and Colin… we got it 😎

[@josevillarreal3041]

Anyone have the list of the bands and albums they when over?

[@HeyItsEddie5]

The most fucked up thing about Some Kind of Monster is that they go over the no guitar solos bullshit, but they don’t go over the trash can snare sound

[@GregBX86]

That P.O.D. record was huge for them. Blew them up into the mainstream with the singles Alive and Youth of the Nation.

[@corycourtney8923]

Suffer, Survive is a masterpiece. Thrones of Blood goes harder than most bands entire discography. Cave In was amazing as a rock band. Carcass - Swansong is a bad record but I love the drum production.

[@mheberling5939]

“Then we do this! What if we sucked”? That line is great.

[@thechubbman]

It’s weird to me that Colin hates God Hates Us All because so much of the modern hardcore sound can be traced back to that record. I honestly think any of those songs could appear on a Harms Way album and no-one would even blink.

[@noname-ng6sj]

God Hates Us All is my favorite Slayer record (i'm that nuts) and even I think you're absolutely crazy for the Harms Way comment, the fuck?!

[@RobertWanko]

Dude, War Zone? I can't belive they just skipped over that absolute banger

[@8195229]

2:20:03

[@duhlike]

This is kind of off topic but Bo seriously has one of the best Lars impressions I've ever heard.

[@sirrock93]

I think AFI Blood Album is my definition of "..couple tracks...". "Still A Stranger" is INCREDIBLE

[@TYhungee]

You Know do on live streaming on Spotify now. And Allow video for podcast now too. Please add that to your Spotify feed

[@fleshrot52]

I've never heard you guys ever mention Snapcase. Progression through Unlearning is Master Killer tier. And, End Transmission is a bad album by an otherwise great band.

[@DaveyBlade13]

Dem hardlore boys at it again. Love these themed episodes

[@ryanjennings6030]

I would straight up go to war for God Hates Us All. One of the first heavy albums I ever heard.

[@samjimenez8713]

Reinventing The Steel could’ve been in this as it’s own thing. I feel people hate that album but it’s probably their hardest one in terms of production AND song writing. The album never lets up

[@Danielfucks69]

Best pantera record, only competition is far beyond driven

[@LifeDrain001]

The Terry mix is insanely hard and that sequencing is way better

[@olliepops1124]

More intriguing to me personally is the overlooked or forgotten albums that are great, but came out at a low point in the band/artist’s career. That’s actually God Hates Us All to me. I think it’s great, but Diabolus In Musica’s stench runs people off (which I totally understand). There’s a couple gems Bathory put out in the 90s that plenty of people that love the four or five 80s Bathory albums ignore. Good arguments exist for the Bush-era Anthrax stuff too. There’s a ton of great examples. Just sayin’ - A dude who admits his favorite Vader album came out in 2004

[@LeftySupreme]

29:48 Colin had me dying with that snare

[@Carlo.WTF416]

GORE IS FUCKING SICK IDC

[@Garebear21]

2:01:32 after laughter is my favorite paramore album. Brand new eyes is and self titled are close though

[@imvengeance666]

Hi boys, love you boys. Love this idea/format, but would be sick if you could find a guest to do this with also. Like, Bo, Colin, and Brendan M. exchanging lists like this would be sick. And then make Spotify Playlists for all of us plebs who don't know about these tracks. Just a suggestion and love you hard.

[@zvchobag]

I stand with Bo. Musical comedy is a no!

[@Leave_The_Hall_69]

It's good to see Riley Gale, again. Nice Coca Cola tee.

[@heartofmontrealsoulclub8522]

Gabby Abularach is Marco from The Icemen's brother. good riffs run in the family I suppose.

[@StevenxWebb]

Burials is absolutely incredible. Crash Love over DU any day. Just can’t do that record 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Carlo.WTF416]

I THROW SWEET AMBER ON AND HAVE AN AMAZING TIME, EVERY TIME, THAT SONG IS ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS. Ok, let’s be real tho, that snare drum is on the wrong record. Would be perfectly at home somewhere in grindcore.

[@TheGutterComics]

For Bo's send-off question, Dillinger Escape Plan is my favorite band but I pretty much never listen to Calculating Infinity. Greg's vocal range is THE element for me. Dimitri I can respect for sounding like a maniac but it's the exact same scream on every single song on that record. That + lack of Faith No More/Nine Inch Nails influence in the music is what puts it in last place for me.

[@LifeDrain001]

W take

[@scott2369]

-Antenna/Breath of Water are goated and Cave In doesn't have a bad album -Daisy is worth a revisit but fits this episode -Cryptopsy - The Unspoken King was a big omission

[@JjsWorld77]

So don't know who your talking to. But would ❤ to be on

[@MazChuga]

I'm fairly certain Crowbar played a Melvins show with Weedeater a while back in Phoenix. I don't think I was ready for Crowbar or hc just yet as I don't even remember their set. Though, I did become a fan of Weedeater that night.

[@notchrisblock]

Some might say that the jingle at the end is the Master Killer of diss songs.

[@mirraco323]

I was hearing you out on Sabbath until you seriously used Paranoid as the “hard” album of the Ozzy era. Brutal ignorance there.

[@olliepops1124]

I’m usually having to convince people to listen to a Sabbath record that features Eric Singer or fuckin’ Neil Murray, but now I really have to sell Sabbath albums featuring Ozzy Osbourne to someone?

[@curtisbush5728]

A couple of tings...ive always been accepting of changes! When Earth Crisis dropped "breed the killers" and people saidbthey were trying to fit in with the ozzfest crowd when Vision of Disorder dropped "from bliss to devastation", people called it Nu Metal, but i understood the Sabbath/southern metal/stoner metal influence! Bands like scissor fight were huge and Tim Williams was a huge fan of later slower Black Flag! I can respect that! Also, on the topic of Paramore, if you took some of theor earlier bodies of work and tuned a half step down and had a hardcore vocalist, ooooohweee!!! That would be one if the best hardcore records ever! Last topic of great bands getting better vocalists....25 Ta Life playing reunion shows with Stick Man! But i think most people we psyched about that!

[@xdogsbloodx]

I once had a dude on the internet try to put me on blast for saying Brain Drain was my favorite Ramones record.

[@abigbeautifultomorrow1026]

Jimmy Eat Worlds "Bleed American" Released on 9/11/01 too....

[@dekapitatorr]

if people think St. Anger sucks, check out pre St.nger demo Presidio sessions. lowest point of Metallica, really the sound of band who is about to break up any minute. I am glad they have got their shit together on Death Magnetic.

[@SweetDeeSee]

I agree, Musical comedy is just a shoot or miss, literally the only Always Sunny episode I don’t like is the one where they sing the whole episode

[@Jordanimal456]

You guys should start asking guests what their wrestling entrance song would be.

[@Tymcmunn]

Just listened to “Crash Love” yesterday. Sick record

[@garthwest9227]

However you feel about Michal Graves. The dude can write and sing his ass off…

[@dragonPISS]

Burials goes so hard. Anxious and 17 Crimes are tracks

[@jesusxhendrix]

Supremacy definitely had riffs. If you’re gonna pick a bad Hatebreed album, you gotta pick a post Sean Martin record.

[@THE_BASED_GOD]

Am i going crazy or is there no audio?

[@BIGxBOSSxx1]

You’re goin crazy

[@kienzle1]

Crowbar has never put out a bad album, ever.

[@the_real_tay_loud2072]

Where is the no warning mini?

[@masterofnull9695]

The Melvins have been putting out good music for a long time. While the newest stuff is not their best, their run was pretty insane. Also the definition of a band who make what they want.

[@corycourtney8923]

This isn’t a new song but one of my favorite from modern Melvins: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZnbanykZ72Kjbs

[@masterofnull9695]

A great song, definitely a top 3 of the Big Business era Melvins.

[@Heavy666Hardcore]

Suffer, Survive is the best ever, I'm sooo dissapointed every when i see them and they don't even play Bad Timing

[@MikeSkeleton]

the way 56:20 reverberated gave me the chills

[@concretespew]

Is Five Deadly considered a BAD album???! I think it might honestly rival Master!!

[@brianbevilacqua3114]

I think the demo version or whatever that was on the discography CD of 5 deadly venous is my favorite Merauder shit!!

[@inkedvillan80]

I listened to this for literally 30mins with my screen off thinking the guy on the right was Kevin Smith lol

[@LifeDrain001]

Highest guy at the straight edge show 😎

[@Defleshuary]

Some call me a Slither apologist, but that album is incredible. The production, perfect. Songwriting, may be their most cohesive. Karl's scream, the best it ever was. Loo Look at hardcore today, TONS of nu-metal influence is in it and it's not labeled as such. It's literally their original style mixed with the newer sounds of that day. Yes, it's more modern, but at base, it's still Earth Crisis. Karl's singing voice isn't bad. It has riffs start to finish. Lyrically, it's still them too, veganism, straight edge, human rights, etc. Is it Destroy the Machines or Gomorrah's Season Ends? Fuck no, but it's a ripper for sure. As a whole, I like it more than Breed the Killers. Back then, some tried saying it was an updated version of All Out War. I'd argue it's All Our War through a nu-metal filter and better songwriting. I could go on forever about how awesome the album is. I listened to it start to finish again just the other day. Haters be damned.

[@MrFonseca75]

This the type of conversation that my friends and I would have back in the day. It turned us all on to new music with long lasting importance.

[@JjsWorld77]

The HardxCorex JjsWorld message in human form

[@isaachall2831]

Oasis- Be Here Now was a hell of an album

[@shanewoodman]

No one got chops like Gabby on Alpha Omega.

[@HimFinancial]

Tomorrow too late is probably my favorite STD track. Easily in the top 3

[@DaveyBlade13]

THE SONG AT THE END 😂

[@bencamilleri3239]

The song at the end is the Master Killer of diss tracks 😂❤

[@GodOvEmptiness]

Dio Sabbath is the best Sabbath. Ozzy Sabbath rules but Dio Sabbath is superior.

[@DaveyBlade13]

That’s a wild take haha. The first 4 with Ozzy are all Master Killer level. I feel like there’s only 1 good Dio album. To each their own tho

[@tomgun8146]

48:22 He's right. That bridge section gets me every time. I'm tired of the song, but dammit that part rules.

[@JjsWorld77]

Chris Garza said 👋