Intel Arc B580 Overhead Issue! Upgraders Beware

[@Hardwareunboxed]

Go show Hardware Canucks (kzbin.info/www/bejne/pKGsoYp8iMugrJY) some love for their work on this one, their comments section is a bit of a crap show with people either not understanding the testing or unwilling to accept the disappointing results, but they are RIGHT! Also please note all testing was conducted at 1080p, and I’m not sure why Premiere didn’t encode the outro music, it’s right there in the timeline, I guess it just didn’t feel like it. Also at 09:19 I meant ‘confident’ not ‘hopeful’, because I am hopeful, but not confident Intel can fix the issue.

[@ScotsmanGamer]

You need to start blocking these 'first' losers

[@Dohregard]

Why did neither of you talk about SAM in your videos?

[@Hardwareunboxed]

@@Dohregard SAM is ReBar, AMD just marketed it to you as something special. What would you like us to talk about?

[@defnotatroll]

Love you guys but not a fan of the doom & gloom clickbaiting, "B580 bad if youre a budget gamer" but none of you guys did the testing to draw the line as to where "budget" ends, even in the HC video people in the comments were asking "what about this newer budget CPU" and they still have no answers

[@SkyForce6700]

One thing that would be interesting would be if you tested that Spiderman Game with various level CPU to figure out exactly what level this stops being an issue? Is it enough to have a 3600X or a 5800X? Or do you need the 3dx chips. Could be interessting to figure this out...

[@WayStedYou]

Nothing like having your budget GPU not work well with budget cpus

[@brumby92]

Tp be fair he explained why. A modern budget CPU, great. An 8 year old mid range is too old for modern titles and I'm okay with that.

[@kerotomas1]

@@brumby92 Then you can afford a better GPU as well. It's pointless buying modern CPUs and platforms for a budget GPU. So OP's point is valid.

[@Dohregard]

If it doesn't have resizable bar it won't perform and that's expected. That's also something completely overlooked by both outlets. Intel has been screaming this since their last generation

[@GBR9794]

@@brumby92 with 128 gb of ram, cpu can last way longer than estimated performance lifespan.

[@IOIOI10101]

it works fine with budget 7500F. Problem affect only very weak and old CPUs

[@JamesSmith-sw3nk]

Damn, the rtx 5060 price just went up by $200.

[@jonnygudman1815]

Not buying is the right answer then.

[@DBTHEPLUG]

Buy 5070 super or higher​@@jonnygudman1815

[@wertywerrtyson5529]

I doubt it. 5060 is supposed to be an 8GB GPU so charging more for it than 4060 in 2025 would not go down well. And if you have a Ryzen 2600 it’s not that expensive to upgrade to a 5600 or even a 5700X3D compared to the cost of graphics cards.

[@damara2268]

@@wertywerrtyson5529 You think nvidia cares about price when they have 90% desktop gpu market share? lol

[@mastroitek]

​@@wertywerrtyson5529I'm almost positive it's gonna have 12gb. Or at least we will have a version with 12gb, because 8gb is truly limiting at this point and Nvidia knows that. Hope never dies!!

[@themalcore_]

Reminder that Intel explicitly says you need 10th Gen or newer or a Ryzen 3000 series or newer CPU.

[@anderszidane973]

Amd gives similar recommendations for the radeon 7000 series and doesn't suffer from this issue on older CPUs. What we continue to see is early gen GPU pains from Intel. I don't expect them to have their act together until they reach their 400 series GPUs

[@FadedSparkx86]

I'm guessing it's because the thing only has 8 PCIe lanes, so it may just be that it NEEDS PCIe 4.0 to satisfy it's needs. I'd say retest with a 3600 if you really want an answer to that question but honestly, it might just show that a 3600 is a perfectly adequate CPU pairing for the card lol Truthfully, I think this is just not useful information. I haven't watched the canucks video, but did they mention the PCIe gimping at all?

[@peterpan408]

Clearly this has been disclosed.

[@johnjames7332]

@@anderszidane973 lol that doesn't matter! This is Intel's minimum spec, not AMDs. No one cares about about AMD gpus

[@s3goku4]

where is this stated? only on boxes? I don't see anything in Intel's ARK.

[@Struct.3]

Edit: I stand corrected, although that is good news as that means this is more likely possible to solve through software updates. This is not an "Overhead" issue, this is a bandwidth problem relating to how the ARC cards calls for and receives data from the cpu. Their method is actually more optimal than previous methods, but it does require a newer cpu that can comply with the instructions. Overhead is a programming term used to explain that some tasks require more computation or memory to complete than others. You could potentially say this is bandwidth Overhead, but that would be simplifying the issue and it would be inaccurate as it is more about how the transfer is handled than how much is transferred.

[@WGK90]

theyre not this smart dude, they just test a few games on a GPU and work out some basic data from it.

[@Struct.3]

@@WGK90 I think they are, just uniformed on the particular terminology.

[@jorge69696]

You are arguing semantics. It's overhead.

[@Megalomaniakaal]

Congestion? I think I'd keep it short and simple, calling it simply congestion.

[@lunarvvolf9606]

Not just cpu but motherboards that utilizer rebar this is the same problem with the first Intel alchemist Arc GPUs they don't work worth a damn if used in older PCI 3.0 motherboards. Which is a shame considering how prevalent those systems where especially in the "budget" class of PC user. The kind of people that would like a gpu upgrade at a lower price simply cannot use Arc without first upgrading their entire system defeating "budget" mindedness when they can opt for a more powerful gpu and still remain in their current platform for less overhead cost than buying a new system on top of a gpu cost. This doesn't bode well for Intel adoption.

[@jasonhatfield2471]

More accurate headline: Intel ARC B580 doesn't run well on unsupported hardware.

[@perlichtman1562]

Exactly! Intel must be facepalming right now after taking the time to list every supported CPU on the quick start guide on their site and the requirements on the GPU boxes and then see people ignore them for testing. Yes, their GPUs run worse on systems that don’t meet the requirements than Nvidia and AMD GPUs usually do (and I tested that) but that’s why they list the requirements in the first place.

[@thiscouldntblowmore]

YES.

[@DaveTheeMan-wj2nk]

yeah, just like how a 4090 won't run well on a 500 watt psu, or fit in a case too small, or work on a none 12pin connector unless you have the adapter and enough 8 pins. It's almost as if allot of things have limitations and requirements. With that said, yes the B580 requiring rebar does hurt the super lower end market.

[@robertmoore119]

I was thinking if the CPU in use is that old, it's time for an upgrade anyway. But it is also good to know there is a list of supported CPUs.

[@originalshirley]

@@perlichtman1562 That's fair, but after all the driver issues with the Alchemist launch, and with this GPU being targeted at the budget market that isn't gaming on newer systems, they should have done a little more than put it in the quick start guide. It probably wouldn't have been good for sales if they told people they needed a new CPU as well.

[@pikaachoo3888]

The silver lining is that budget AM4 users have a very good value upgrade in the 5700X3D. Anyone with budget intel cpus are doomed since they need to swap out the entire motherboard+cpu and even ram

[@Navi_xoo]

Any intel shill is just going to buy it anyway but they'll probably by Nvidia. For the most part they are afraid of anything else like Apple users and they just go with the mind share. Not really a bad idea but at this point there's a big reason the mindshare is with Ryzen.

[@kaimojepaslt]

everyone with INTEL cpus need new motherboard to upgrade cpu and use INTEL gpu, this is ironic , intel never surprises anymore

[@themue]

Yep, an upgrade I did recently. It's great.

[@panzerswineflu]

That was my plan but not sure the b350m mortar is good enough for it

[@Weryl]

LGA1151 ones can buy 9900 oem cpu (difrend codename) without boost for

[@MrIsmaeltaleb85]

Resizable BAR support is available on the following CPU generations: Intel: 10th Gen Core processors and newer. AMD: Ryzen 3000 series (excluding 3000G APUs) and newer. Looks like on the 2600x and 9600k rebar was probably not actually functioning even if it was turned on in the bios. Maybe try comparing results with rebar ON and OFF on the 2600x and see if it makes a difference. It probably wont.

[@MrIsmaeltaleb85]

Note: i know you had rebar on mate 👍

[@SpicyEvo]

Should do it with the new cpus and see the hit in FPS wonder if it’s the same percentage

[@nathangamble125]

That's the _official_ support, but _actual_ support is determined by the motherboard, not the CPU. ReBar was backported to some motherboards for 8th and 9th Core CPUs. There would be no point in doing this if the feature didn't work on CPUs older than 10th gen.

[@pandamikep2460]

finally someone with facts

[@Calslock]

Small correction: ReBAR is supported on all Ryzens, 1000 and 2000 series too, but only when BIOS is updated to one with at least AGESA version which drops AMD A-series CPUs compatibility, so 1.2.0.3C+ if I remember correctly.

[@segakn98]

What about relevant budget/mid-range CPUs perfomance? R5 3600, R5 5600, R5 7500f, i5 10400, i3 12100, i5 12400. Is it that bad too?

[@joshuagreer8046]

5700x3d as well that thing is a budget monster

[@ranjitmandal1612]

No

[@Davinmk]

3600 maybe, but zen3 and alder lake beyond should be fine

[@maxim_si]

2600 is bad because it cant use ReBar, 3600 may use but will be better to go with Zen 3 processor

[@Rachit0904]

Steve said he's gonna test more CPUs, give him time!

[@Tracenji]

it really feels like there is a REBAR issue as far as i am aware, the 2600 does not officially support REBAR, could be the motherboard and software show it as working but in reality it is not working properly or is a gimped version of REBAR

[@nikola7222]

I think intel states minimum cpu for arc gpus is ryzen 3000 series as it supports rebar.

[@MrPaperVader]

The B Arc580 specifically says it needs a CPU with REBAR support so im not sure why he is surprised that CPUs without it perform so bad. He should have tested with an i5-12400f or something like that instead

[@gabrielmacena2843]

if what you saying it's true that the 2600 doesn't support REBAR then yeah it is the issue, RandomGamingInHD tested the B580 without ReBar and it performanced very poorly, similar to what this video showed

[@nimrodery]

ReBAR on/off was tested in the HC video.

[@nikola7222]

@@nimrodery And did the rebar on had better performance ?

[@spencer4hire81]

It is a bit of malpractice to not mention that you were testing an explicitly unsupported CPU. The box itself says that minimum system requirements are Ryzen 3000 or newer and Intel 10th gen or newer.

[@jasonhatfield2471]

Gotta get clicks.

[@johnjames7332]

@@spencer4hire81 and Hardware Unboxed fell for it, hook, line, sinker, old CPU.

[@randallsmith2521]

While I can agree with that to an extent, is the generational improvement moving to 10th gen going to make that much of a difference if you're looking at the same tier of CPU. What if they drop to an i3 CPU, but 10th gen. Testing the 9th gen CPU isn't really out of line, especially considering that for so long we've been conditioned that system requirements on software are often inaccurate.

[@wadehill6029]

@spencer4hire81 this right here. Making storiez out of stuff that can be fixed with a little reading.

[@crookim]

As someone who actually has an R5 2600 and 5600, and also an Intel a750 card, I can assure you that Rebar doesn't work on R5 2600 is not enabled on the CPU! The 5600 works like a champ with the Intel card!

[@robustloki]

Can we get a CPU scaling comparison with the arc b580? Atleast with 1 intel cpu and ryzens 5 and 7 from 3000,5000,7000 series would be a nice added bonus. Thanks !

[@miminepho]

That would be super interesting. Not everybody can afford a 9800X3D

[@kaimojepaslt]

@@miminepho rizen 5 7600 is just last gen, its not old like i5 9600k. it will do just fine

[@olymind1]

Would be nice to see all good budget-ish 6 core cpus from 2600 to 9600. Also for nextgen soon to be releasing nV and AMD cards to see how they scale with cheaper cpus.

[@pandamikep2460]

especially a test done WITH resizable bar, since intel recommends that for this gpu, i dont understand the confusion since intel themselves warned this would happen, both the ryzen 2600 and intel 9th gen cant do ReBar.

[@threesixtydegreeorbits2047]

@pandamikep2460 Didn’t watch the video. The 2600 in the video has rebar enabled

[@radweld]

So I bought an AsRock B580 just before Christmas as I was intrigued by it. I installed it into an older 9900K system I had and the performance was horrible. worse than the 1650 I had in previously. I was getting between 20-30fps in Forza Horizon 5. Anyway I saw a video about how Resizable Bar was important and was surprised the Gigabyte main board I had supported it. Anyway after enabling and setting up a 2GB aperture, performance jumped to +100 FPS and very smooth frame times. So if your system doesn't support Resizable Bar, avoid the B580 but if you support it, it should work fine.

[@pandamikep2460]

considering intel recommends ReBar in their documentation...

[@joey_f4ke238]

Rebar is enabled here for the 2600 too, even if a bit older the 9900k is still an 8 core beast

[@HalfLifeHalfDead]

@@joey_f4ke238 But the 2600 itself doesn't work with rebar.

[@AshtonCoolman]

I got Arc working on my 9900k + Gigabyte Z390 motherboard after I enabled ReBAR AND disabled CSM. I missed that CSM needed to be disabled first 😅

[@RafitoOoO]

​@@HalfLifeHalfDeadof course it works with rebar.

[@SpicyEvo]

Isn’t this just a Sam/rebar support issue? I don’t believe the 2600 has Sam. 3000 is the minimum

[@nathangamble125]

Not officially, but it can still be enabled.

[@pandamikep2460]

you are 100% correct sir... i bet if this test was done on a 3600 the result would be different,

[@Amokhahn]

If the 2600X not support rebar nothing will happen if you enable it in the Mainboard Bios

[@pandamikep2460]

@@Amokhahn just because the motherboard may support it, doesnt mean the cpu does...

[@ChrisP872]

@@nathangamble125 Just because a setting can be enabled doesn't guarantee it is working correctly. Intel GPUs list processor gens as minimum system REQUIREMENTs. It doesn't simply say, "ANY system you can enable REBAR on".

[@MrPaperVader]

Ok but why use the i5-9600k anyways when the B Arc580 specifically says u need intel gen 10 or higher with resizable BAR support. What about an i5-12400f or even i3-14100?

[@krazyfrog]

HC video clearly says he had enabled ReBAR. I'm begging people to actually watch the video before repeating the same thing over and over again.

[@HyperScorpio8688]

@@krazyfrog I mean when Intel literally tells you you need 10th gen or higher, you really shouldn't be surprised when it doesn't work...

[@nimrodery]

Is that a requirement listed on the box? Intel's spec page doesn't seem to feature that info.

[@jackbromley452]

@@nimrodery though oddly it's not listed on the intel spec sheet on their website, but it seems like most retailers have it right...

[@rentojad]

@@HyperScorpio8688 You think i3-10100 that is slower than 9600k would work better? Seriously?

[@andreisrl]

the most logical next step would be to properly determine the cutoff by testing it with multiple cpus until the overhead exposes itself. I imagine lots of people like to know if their cpu would bottleneck the B580.

[@CNWPlayer]

Intel 10th gen or Ryzen 3000

[@lebrons666]

as all other comments have mentioned please look at these similar games with a 10th gen cpu from intel and a 3000 series cpu from amd. we viewers clearly dont know much as you reviewers but just what if rebar is on and its not working as intended for your r5 2600 and hardware canucks's i5 9600k

[@perlichtman1562]

Intel already listed the 2000 series and 9th gen as unsupported before launch on the GPU boxes and the quick start guides. The system requirements clearly list 10th gen or 3000 (non-G) or newer as system requirements. This is pure user error.

[@VolumetricLighting]

Try the 3600 instead, Intel states that the minimum CPU requirements for the GPU is a 3000 series (for AMD) and the 10th gen for Intel processors.

[@Neverwinterx]

Isn't this just related to rebar not working properly on those older CPU's? It's well known that the intel GPU's really count on the rebar working.

[@Hoytehablode]

Yeah my same thought

[@jaykoerner]

No if you watch the video that's not what it is, also rebar has been officially supported by Intel CPUs since Sandy bridge, it just wasn't commonly in the bios

[@frankhuurman3955]

apparently they're testing it with rebar enabled here

[@pandamikep2460]

yes you are 100% correct sir. that didnt start until ryzen 3000, not sure when it started for intel, gotta look it up

[@zjanez2868]

official requirements list at least ryzen 3000 or intel 10th gen not sure how well/if at all sam/rebar works on a ryzen 2000

[@perlichtman1562]

Intel specifically says in their quick start guide (and all Arc boxes I’ve seen) that a 10th gen or newer Intel CPU or AMD 3000 (non-G) or newer CPU is a REQUIREMENT. Saying that it’s “broken” on a CPU that explicitly doesn’t support is as asinine as saying that a PS5 game is “broken” on an Xbox.

[@my7favorite7videos]

Hype 🤡🤡🤡

[@mikman7219]

You need to retest with the officially supported CPUs: Intel 10th/AMD 3000. Testing with unsupported CPUs makes little sense.

[@libaf5471]

What? 9800x3d is the comparison.

[@tryllejens]

Well, since the Intel Arc cards already require resizable bar, even older systems are already excluded. But people who are on the first or second gen of Ryzen CPU's can "just" upgrade to a Ryzen 5 5600, it's fairly afordable now. Hopefully a 5600 should be enough for a B580?

[@Amokhahn]

Better they upgrade to the 5700X3D. I did it and it is running well

[@lycanthoss]

You can get rebar running on a lot of unsupported motherboards through unofficial means. I think the project is called ReBarUEFI. Anyway, some people managed to get rebar working on PCIe 2.0 systems, though at that point a GPU upgrade should be the least of your worries.

[@XmaxxMaxx5]

Can confirm the b580 works like a charm with a Ryzen 5 5600 )

[@timiko4]

but why would I so that if it’s still would lower max CPU perf vs 6700XT / 6750XT in similar money. Overhead is overhead, regardless of how powerful CPU you have

[@Anankin12]

So you can choose to spend 250+180=430$ for a B580+5700X3D or to spend about 430$ for a RX 7700XT or a 6800XT which are much faster. Not great.

[@EVPointMaster]

Please make sure that ReBAR is acutally working on this CPU. You should try testing if there is a difference with ReBAR on vs off on these older platforms too.

[@Hardwareunboxed]

It is actually working.

[@ChrisP872]

@@Hardwareunboxed How can you tell other than a tool saying it is enabled? I'm not being snarky. I'm wondering if you guys can dispel the idea a lot of us have where tools are saying it is enabled while what is actually happening is the hardware isn't actually doing it or is doing a gimped version of it. Maybe Intel has an explanation?

[@AchiragChiragg]

​@@Hardwareunboxedas the other comment mentioned. What do you mean by working? Like it shows that it's turned on or does it actually show any difference in performance between it being turned off and turned on?

[@laceflowerhw]

​@@ChrisP872 In windows, device manager will have a "Large Memory Range" key in the GPU's properties tab. It shows you the address range. On Linux you can simply grep BAR in dmesg. If it's disabled, you'll get BAR=256M as it's the default BAR size, and if it's enabled you'll get your GPUs total vram in MB (e.g. for an 8gb card it'll be 8192M)

[@XMproYT]

@@HardwareunboxedApparently the 2000 series Ryzens dont actually support it, could you test it with the 3600, 5600 to see if this issue persists? Thanks Steve

[@kelvino3990]

Does the 2600 actually support resizable bar? Thought it was 3000 series and newer.

[@magnusnilsson9792]

rebar is a PCIE 2.0 feature, however PCIE 3.0 x8 speed is probably the issue.

[@ArtDadDraws]

It pretends it does. I had one, it had settings to turn on, but it did nothing.

[@purplegill10]

@@magnusnilsson9792 Hardware canucks already confirmed it's not the PCIE speed that's causing this

[@WilliamSwartzendruber]

He has to mean the Ryzen 5 9600. EDIT: Nope, he means 2600.

[@rozsapeter4577]

If i remember right the first official AMD processors that supported resizable bar were the 5000 series processors. Later AMD added support for the 3000 series. The 2000 series does not support resizable bar/sam.

[@corey2232]

Their page & box literally says it supports Intel 10th gen CPU's & AMD 3000 series & beyond... Hardware Canucks tested on a 9th gen CPU. They literally do not support those systems.

[@chrisroberts324]

I read somewhere else that there is a minimum cpu requirement for the Arc b580. They said that it needs 10th gen for resizable bar. I don’t know if resizable bar would make a difference. You guys might try a 10600k to see if that makes a difference.

[@LOLTrec]

i'm interested in seeing the same tested with a R5 7600, since it's one of the most popular pairs of this tier of GPUs

[@Hardwareunboxed]

Ryzen 5 7600 should be fine, I will test it but I'm confident it will be fine.

[@SpicyEvo]

3000 series and beyond supports rebar/ sam that’s the issue here. I guarantee if you turn the feature off on the new cps the arc will take a hit in performance

[@LOLTrec]

@@Hardwareunboxed I would love to say that I'm also confident in that, but such a volatile architecture hurts that confidence a bit. Your testing is always greatly appreciated, keep up the good work.

[@stranger01422]

@@SpicyEvo watch the hardware canucks video he had rebar turned on. People just didn't watch the video before commenting.

[@khalidqureshi3168]

@@Hardwareunboxed Maybe test it with CPUs such as i3-12100 or i5-12400

[@joshuascholar3220]

RandomGaminginHD found that it's AMAZINGLY slow even on fast cpus if you turn off resizable bar.

[@Hardwareunboxed]

We're testing with ReBAR enabled here, for all tests.

[@EVPointMaster]

We've know that since the Alchemist GPUs

[@ranjitmandal1612]

😮

[@unknownhours]

@@Hardwareunboxed The 2600 doesn't have reBAR, does it?

[@pandamikep2460]

@@Hardwareunboxed except the 2600 isnt capable of running rebar.... so yeah... kind of a predictable test considering intel in their own documentation recommends ReBar

[@MaxIronsThird]

This is just a ReBar problem, Intel has stated several times that Arc cards require ReBar/Sam support, which means intel 9th gen/Ryzen2000 and older will have problems. If you're on AM4 with a tight budget, just get a used 5600 for $30.

[@vespa7961]

If this test was repeated with an i3 10100 and a r5 3600, Those are cpus people have loads of. Most people have moved past 2nd gen.

[@ChrisP872]

These CPUs are also near the bottom end of supported CPUs. These would be great to test rather than unsupported older CPUs.

[@vespa7961]

@ChrisP872 the 2600 does actualy support rebar. However, I don't think the 2600 is fast enough for a b580 anyway so the results are weird

[@vespa7961]

@@ChrisP872 the 3600, 10100 and 10400f would be great test points.

[@TrueThanny]

When you expand upon this, be sure to include a couple tests with resizable BAR disabled, to show that it's actually working with the configuration when enabled. The comment sections are full of people denying that it's actually working on the older processors.

[@cstubed]

Are we sure that Re-Bar works on R5 2600? If i remember correctly, this feature was introduced with Ryzen 3000 series so even if it appears on, i doubt it works. A test with setting on and off is needed.

[@pandamikep2460]

they said they had it enabled but that doesnt mean anything, amd didnt support rebar until 3000

[@thetechdog]

It does. My ASUS mobo that supports CPUs from 1000 to 5000 series received a rebar update, and it lets you enable it even on Zen and Zen+. Other mobos don't let you and require you to have a Zen 2 CPU or higher.

[@cstubed]

@@thetechdog Yea but it doesn't mean that it works on you. In my MSI Z690 there are some settings that doesn't do anything enabled or disabled so...

[@joey_f4ke238]

It has been tested before even first gen zen processors can see a performance boost enabling rebar on arc cards like the A770, i would link a reddit thread where a user tested it but yt doesn't like links

[@pandamikep2460]

@@thetechdoga motherboard can support it yes but the cpu also has to as well, AMD didnt officially do that until 3000

[@ThunderingRoar]

I could be wrong, but i thought intel 10th gen and ryzen 3000 are the oldest gens that support reBAR which is essential for Arc GPUs? As it happens both Steve and Hardware Canucks used 9th gen and ryzen 2000. Could these massive performance drops be attributed to lack of reBAR support and not just driver overhead?

[@NovusDundus]

I mean it's a small problem. But if you're stuck on an old CPU that has problems, then upgrade that before the GPU? Especially when AM4 can go up to Ryzen 5000 and the 5700X3D

[@kingasad423]

I don't know why this is a surprise to everybody because Intel themselves said you have to at least pair it with a 10 gen Intel processor

[@elirantuil5003]

12400 is the most important benchmark i think. Its the most natural pairing with the b580.

[@kanta32100]

Nobody uses ryzen 2600 anymore, it can barely run anything. 3600 would be a better choice, it's almost the same as PS5 cpu.

[@nunwrong_nothing]

@@kanta32100 bro hes talking about the core i5 12400

[@Swoxie1]

Absolutely. I'm upgrading to 12400F from 10100F and saving up for a GPU upgrade later on. Really curious about how 12400F performs with B580.

[@JCammeron]

6 year old procs don't support features that brand new GPUs need to function at peak performance? Blame the GPU. What a hot take /s Seriously, with this logic we would never have any technical progress. Yes, new features are going to come out your old hardware doesn't support. That doesn't make the new thing bad. If you disagree please go back to dial up since coming to the modern era required new cables and modems.

[@Hardwareunboxed]

I don't get how anyone can be this... stupid. How can you come to this conclusion, using words like "logic" while completely ignoring the fact that the same issues don't plague the RTX 4060? Moreover do you think this won't apply to the Ryzen 5 3600? What about the 5600 or similar processors?

[@JCammeron]

> while completely ignoring the fact that the same issues don't plague the RTX 4060? Except it does? The 30 and 40 series cards will both see performance drops with rebar disabled. This is not Intel unique, just more apparent. > do you think this won't apply to the Ryzen 5 3600? The 3600 natively supports REBAR where the 2600 does not. I have a 3950x with a 3080 and guess what, turn Rebar off and you lose frames. Again, if your processor is 7 years old (like the 2600) this shouldn't be a surprised. This isn't "The card is broken" this is "The card lists a specific requirement my old hardware doesn't support".

[@Hardwareunboxed]

ReBAR is enabled for all test configurations shown in this video. Moreover there are very few examples where GeForce GPUs see a performance drop with ReBAR disabled. But none of that is relevant here, you seem to be missing a few steps. Funny you mention the 3600, I have a follow video landing in a few hours featuring that chip along with the 5600.

[@ayam_puaka6337]

​​@@Hardwareunboxed can you test with i3 12100f? I'm using this cpu with 1660 super so I'm eager to see how it will perform in 1080p & 1440p I'm thinking of upgrade the gpu for playing 1440p on budget (or should I wait for rtx 5060/rx 9060)

[@johnjames7332]

@@HardwareunboxedOMG that's one of the......stupidest replies I have yet read from HU. Intel clearly states the minimum cpu specs for their B580, the fact that a 4060 can run BETTER on older is besides the point! The minimum CPU Spec is 10th gen or higher. With your grade 4 logic please do a video comparing a 4060 and 4090 with a 500w power supply and tell us how bad the 4090 is. Also STOP DELETING COMMENTS

[@Ultra504]

Why don't you make a Google Docs ticket system where people can provide feedback with images on whatever subject a video discusses - so you can get better engagement and gather more data

[@theodentherenewed4785]

As many people already commented, resizable bar works from Intel 10th gen and Ryzen 3000. Rebar on previous gens is not good enough to handle Arc cards.

[@Hardwareunboxed]

Many people are wrong ;)

[@theodentherenewed4785]

​@@Hardwareunboxed Thank you for taking time to reply, that's even more interesting. I can't wait then for a follow-up video to find out, which CPUs work well with the Arc B580 and on which it falls behind so much. More testing will hopefully reveal another reason for the poor performance on Ryzen 2600 and Core 9600K.

[@joncope9175]

Is this because those older CPU’s do not support resizable bar? That was an issue with the first Arc cards as well.

[@deanclark8783]

I'd be curious as to whether this drop is linear or whether there is a tipping point to the degraded performance. I'd be interested to see one or two of the worst results (Hogwarts and Spiderman) rerun with a Ryzen 5 3600, 5600, and Ryzen 7 5700X3D to see where between the 2600 and 9800X3D those processors sit.

[@perlichtman1562]

It’s not linear. I’ve tested previous Arc cards on older systems and newer ones alongside AMD and Nvidia systems and the AMD and Nvidia ones scale linearly while for Intel you need to treat the system requirements as gospel because anything older just goes right off a cliff. For instance, running a 3060 on an i7-3820 lets you get most of the performance of the card at 4K while an A770 gets only a fraction of what it does on a 12th gen or 13th gen in the same scenario (where CPU limiting normally shouldn’t be such a big deal). One exception to expected performance with these cards is video editing, where non of the cards scale linearly once you get a sufficiently old system and the timeline playback is pretty much awful whether you are using a 3050, A770, 4070 or 3090.

[@264x720]

Looking forward to the wider range of CPU tests!

[@wile123456]

Intel saving 2 cents by using a shitty 8x pcie bus instead of 16x is also awful for Budget builds. Rip performance if you don't have PCIE 4.0

[@Robemcla]

If you look up the "Intel Arc Graphics - Desktop Quick Start Guide", technically your configuration (Ryzen 2000) and hardware Canucks configurations (9th gen intel) are not supported. Intel probably never optimized for these systems. In this video you mention that good CPUs are cheap. It might be time for them to do a system upgrade.

[@KeVsPIXEL]

Wow, i can't wait for "5090, or rx9000 cards are broken because you can't use it on intel pentium from 15+ years ago"

[@NickVu1]

I expected for the test to actually test a rebar supported CPU just to be sure, but oh well.

[@SpFres1]

The real question is whether one should upgrade from a Zen+/B350/B450/X370/X470 combo, to a 5700X3D, and how much the PCI Express 3.0x8 will limit the performance of the card. Older systems are doomed.

[@Anankin12]

Yeah, I hate how everyone recommended not caring about PCIe Gen 3 vs 4 when Ryzen 5000 came out. For high end components there's truly no difference: you will be hard pressed to find any between a 4090 on gen 3 or gen 4 (in gaming, in coding I can already measure it on a 3060...). A 4070 or 4070 Super don't care about it one bit, same goes for 3060, 3070, 3080, 3090. 3050 is slow enough to mask it, too. But on low end hardware, having Gen 3 cuts you off from so many budget GPUs it's not even funny. The awful 6500XT was unusable on gen 3, worse than even a 1050 Ti; a 4060 is worse than a 3060 on gen 3 due to the x8 limitation; A580 was a decent one but if you had gen 3 it was unacceptable; etc etc Saving 50€ getting a A520 or B450 or B550 without gen 4 resulted in either being forced up the stack in the GPU lineup or being forced to upgrade the mobo/entire system to overcome that limitation. That terrible advice wasted at least 100€ of my budget; now I know better and I am able to evaluate this for myself, but in hindsight it really was a cringe take. That said, knowing what I now do, the same won't happen for Gen 4 v 5 for at least 3 or 4 generations. But still, I'm (very) mildly angry about that.

[@SpFres1]

@Anankin12 Completely agree with you. This is the kind of stuff not a single big tech/showcase channel takes into consideration when they give recommendations on CPU/GPU upgrade paths. To me, a 6700 XT is a better upgrade card for these kind of systems altogether because it is a "classic" gpu. You plug it in and it just works. In all fairness, I believe the next generation of GPUs (Radeon 9000/ RTX 6000 series) will have their top gaming GPUs use a x8 PCI bus. And suddenly perfectly usable B650 PCIe gen 4 motherboards will become obsolete all over again as an option. For example, let's say a B650/10800X3D combo will be held back by its gen 4 bus for absolutely no fucking reason. I get it, more lanes should be allocated for nvme drives, I/O etc, but this is becoming a recurrent e-waste problem through the years

[@magnusnilsson9792]

@@Anankin12 A580 works well on PCIE 3.0 since it uses 16 lanes, the B580 is cut down to 8, which is one of the mayor reasons I did not buy it, the second reason was XeSS FG.

[@vadnegru]

​@@Anankin12 didn't see any difference going from gen 3 to gen 4 on my 6600xt

[@daviddavies3637]

Well, last year I discovered that a CPU upgrade can actually be better than a GPU upgrade My 6 month old RX6800 XT died and while I was trying to trouble shoot, I picked up a cheap 5800X3D to replace my 2600. Never replaced the 6800 XT and still using my old old 4Gb RX570. As a 1080p gamer, the CPU turned out be be a bigger upgrade than the GPU. Ultimately, the B580 would do everything I need. So, while it's tempting to say "if you need to upgrade the CPU, you may as well put that money together and get a better non-Intel GPU instead," in my experience, if you have something as old as a 2600, you really should be upgrading to something better AND a B580 rather than spend $500/£500 on just the GPU.

[@Skidamarinkk]

It's more like $500 or £600. Pricing for parts here in the UK are dogwater

[@x1c3x]

especially now that most games have FSR or DLSS upscaling. You can always reduce graphics, lower res, upscale. Can't do shit then the CPU is the problem. Maybe overclock and RAM tune, but that has its limits.

[@AndyViant]

I learnt this with 2600 vs 11th gen, and again with 11th gen versus zen 5. Remove the bottleneck first is the answer.

[@georgwarhead2801]

thats because your 2600 was a massive bottleneck for your GPU and the moment you started using a 5800X3D your GPU was finaly able to show its full performance. i think on your old RX570 you probably see litle to no difference at all

[@SlagroomenCornflakes]

If this advice is correct, then i wanna thank you. I have been using my 2600x for quite some years now, and i have been thinking about an upgrade.

[@vivekvhatkar4750]

Is the Performance Degradation because The Ryzen 5 2600 Does not Supporting Resizable BAR?

[@jamespruett6752]

This is why reciewer should start testing with cpus that match the gpu price range and target user

[@HardwareCanucks]

Thanks for the sanity check Steve, your confirmation means a lot and your conclusion is spot on. What people need to understand is cards at this price point are tailor made for upgrade purposes and whether they like it or not, 9th / 10th gen Intel CPUs along with Ryzen 2000 / 3000 are still very, very good processors for gaming in most cases. Specifically in cases that are less CPU limited. Now Intel is introducing what feels like more driver overhead into the equation which absolutely tanks performance in games where the B580 typically does well. That's a major issue. When a GPU is launched that specifically targets upgraders (indeed Intel themselves showed slides vs GTX 1060 / 1660) and then can't keep up with the competition in that regard...well, it needs to be called out. Like we said, if you combine the number of people still using the GTX 1060 and 1660 series, Intel has a huge market to tap into. But they're missing that opportunity with hiccups like this. I should also mention, Its in excessively poor form to insult people who might not have the money or even want to upgrade their budget focused CPUs while still getting a gaming uplift. That kind of elitism within our comments and yours is worrying and will drive people away from PC gaming and will ultimately dissuade them from making the right upgrade choices for their specific situations. - Mike

[@TexasFun]

You did a BAD TEST with parts that Intel says are not SUPPORTED (10th gen thru Ultra with rebar recommended on Intel's ARC guideline page/site). It is not an insult to tell someone they made a BAD DECISION by buying incompatible parts for an upgrade. You are losing credibility with anyone who is intelligent enough to research and follow the manufacturer's recommended, compatible system parts... Are you in the habit of yelling fire in a crowded room when there is no fire? BAD TESTs + get BAD RESULTS = BAD CONTENT. LOL🤣🙃

[@DESARD12]

It's a massive blow to the perceived value of the b580 for someone on a budget too, which will inevitably drive away future customers from arc gpus. Whose fault is it? Hard to say, you *can* blame intel for it, but they also recommended that you pair it with a cpu that supports rebar and, admittedly, I wouldn't grab my pitchfork if I saw poor performance for a gpu line known to work best with rebar on because my computer didn't support it, it's a shitty situation all around. Sad, really, just as arc was finding its footing...

[@tqlla]

Your comment seems very disingenuous. Why are you lumping in 9th gen and 10th gen together like they both have issues? Intels minimum spec for Rebar support is 10th gen. Same with Ryzen 2xxx and 3xxx. The minimum requirements are printed right on the box.

[@rentojad]

@@TexasFun He tested with rebar enabled. They say 10th gen, because most of 9th gen mobos don't support rebar. That's it. 9600k is still faster than for example i3-10100. What's the point of budget gpu that's doesn't work well with budget cpus?

[@tqlla]

@@DESARD12 That is why I consider this video and the hw canucks video misinformation. Its not a budget issue, its an issue with outdated hardware, that is below the minimum requirements. Yet they make it seem like, if you have a budget CPU, the B580 is broken. The minimum requirements are printed right on the box.

[@MrHav1k]

Sounds like something AMD and Ngreedia shareholders would want put out there to downplay Intel's big win to end the year.....

[@CurtOntheRadio]

Greed? How often have retail prices been at or below NV's MRSP? How do scalpers survive if NV are so greedy? NV have been leaving a lot of dough on the table for others. Given their market position NV could surely charge even more. But presumably they are pretty good at pitching the price for their bottom-line, because, you know, they have fancy accountants who are pretty good at budgets and margins etc. Sometimes a lower price benefits shareholders. If a bag of chips was $10,000 instead of $1 would they make more money? No.

[@samgragas8467]

I notice people are confused. New and fast CPUs are also affected when CPU-limited, you are just less likely to be CPU-limited.

[@dopiercomic4106]

Try using supported hardware next time. Heard it runs great.

[@patrickc8007]

Why don't you guys use something like Ryzen 5 5600 for testing? 2600 is an outdated CPU at this point.

[@zagan1]

Because there's nothing much to say it'd be the same results

[@BenchARTVideos]

Steve did the r5 2600 support resistable bar?

[@mungojerrie86]

Nope and that is a big part of the issue.

[@timiko4]

yes, it’s a pcie feature since 2.1 or 2.0 so if bios implements that, it can works on a lot older stuff than zen

[@dvornikovalexei]

It does. People are so tired of Nvidia they gonna throw every bizarre claim😂

[@vogonp4287]

Not officially. I heard it can work if you tweak things though. Not as well as something that officially supports it though.

[@BenchARTVideos]

@@vogonp4287 it would be interesting if it was tested with the 3600 though

[@bullseye6969]

I think testing it with R5 5600 makes more sense then R5 2600

[@kallestofeles]

Probably the question in everyone's mind currently is - if we get 100% of performance in 2-3 games with something like 9800x3D and ~40% performance with a 2600 (random number example), where does the majority of the drop happen? At what approximate CPU performance point do the scales tip in favor of B580 being a great value product again. The amount of testing needed for this however, is simply put, ridiculous. :(

[@timiko4]

and there will also br different graphics settings, many prefer running games at medium with high textures to get more FPS and this case gets hurt a lot by the problem

[@dycedargselderbrother5353]

I've been saying this for years but the response is always "testing with the best possible CPU is the only valid method". This isn't the first example of some sort of overhead or technological compatibility issue. You always risk something like this pairing something new with something old, which is why it should be tested rather than saying "It works on my 9800x3D and therefore works for everybody!" and calling it a day.

[@perlichtman1562]

Except it’s already been tested by Intel and they said that a 10th gen Core or a 3000 (non-G) AMD CPU are listed on the system requirements on the boxes and even the official quick start guide on their site. Ignoring the official system requirements and treating it as news is bizarre. I’ve tested Arc cards on systems that don’t meet the system requirements and the cutoff point that Intel specified is accurate - don’t buy them for systems that don’t meet the requirements because on Nvidia and AMD GPUs can often work better on those systems.

[@kallestofeles]

@perlichtman1562 never heard of this. Thanks for bringing it up! 🍻

[@HalenShredder]

Wouldn't this just be out of spec behavior anyway?

[@MsHojat]

This is one of the reasons why I don't like all the GPU testing exclusively being done with high end CPUs every single time. Yes I understand the theory behind it (namely because when CPU _does_ affect performance it makes it harder to compare with other benchmark results, aside from the whole "no bottleneck" thing), but as demonstrated in this situation it's not always representative of actual performance for the actual consumer. Best to use typical CPUs that are appropriate for the budget of the buyers of the cards.

[@gabrielevenditti]

This ReBAR thing is kinda messy. From what i recall there isn't even an official supported cpu list. I just discovered with this video that Zen+ was supported. I have a 3600 and a 1660 super and when i learned that ReBAR was a thing i think the 3600 was not included as a supported CPU but then it was, out of the blue. Kinda wish they were more direct with this type of information.

[@pandamikep2460]

actually if you read any of intels documentation on the B580 it recommends Rebar enabled

[@gabrielevenditti]

@@pandamikep2460 yeah I know that, it's the CPU/GPU combos that aren't often specified, or to be even more accurate, UPDATED, since when ReBAR came out they said it would only be supported on rtx 3000 (and newer GPUs) and Zen 3 or newer (and Intel CPUs counterparts). With the B580 ReBAR is a requirement, but still, which CPUs are supported? The only place when you can know if yours is able to use it is reddit basically.

[@AndyViant]

This is why I sold my 2600 and B350 and moved to the newer 11th gen. For all the "it's basically a 10th gen" issues it had PCIe 4.0 support, supported 2 Nvme SSD's, supported better ram speeds, rebar etc. Made a huge difference to performance and with all the hate for 11th gen and the hype for 12th gen it was basically cost neutral for a 30% performance jump.

[@AshtonCoolman]

Your 3000 series CPU supports ReBAR on 400 and 500 series chipsets. You shouldn't have any problems

[@pandamikep2460]

@@gabrielevenditti nah, google search quickly shows rebar first appeared on intel 10th gen and ryzen 3000 series...

[@igelbofh]

Meh, reheated old news. We knew about it since the original A series arc. But you reviewers didn't notice because you always test the card with the fastest CPU, not with multiple entry/mid/high-mid CPUs in situations that are not supposed not CPU bound.

[@PhoenixKeebs]

This is just common knowledge. Intel has stated ever since Alchemist came out that you need a CPU that supports ReBar. They recommend going Intel 10th or AMD 3000.

[@69ryxn]

Shhhh that doesn’t fit Steve’s narrative

[@WrexBF]

all ryzen CPUs and intel 8th gen and newer support rebar. Intel recommends intel 10th and amd 3000 because all of those systems supports rebar. older systems need a BIOS update to add rebar and some don't have that BIOS (especially OEM prebuilts from companies like DELL and HP).

[@johnjames7332]

@@WrexBFits well known that Rebar on 8th and 9th is not officially supported by Intel and where bios manufacturers have janked Rebar it into the settings it usually not working

[@WrexBF]

@johnjames7332 Educate yourself on the subject before spewing nonsense. Resizable BAR is a pcie 2.0 feature. The CPU either support it or not, there is no inbetween. It's up to the motherboard manufacturers to add the setting to enable it in the BIOS.

[@johnjames7332]

@ Im very well educated thanks. Experimented heavily with rebar on an Intel 9th gen with my 3080 back in 2021 and it was unstable mess. Bios have rebar enabled but the Nvidia app would flip between on/off at random. Over to you kiddo.

[@makkienleong6865]

"Intel® Arc™ Graphics - Desktop Quick Start Guide" doesn't show Ryzen 2000 support.

[@rgstroud]

This explains why the higher resolution benchmarks were better than the 1080 benchmarks because the 1080 resolution needs more CPU than 4k. This is a problem because those who want to save money by buying a good GPU for a good price would have to buy the most expensive CPU to get the best results.

[@thiscouldntblowmore]

This is stupid and i said in the hwcanucks video too. Minimum CPU for B580 is INTEL 10th gen, not "9600K" and the system has to have RE-BAR. You know this..

[@btc7998]

The following CPUs support resizable BAR: Intel: 10th generation and newer CPUs, and 12th generation CPUs with an Intel 600 Series motherboard AMD: Ryzen 5000 series and newer CPUs, except for the 3400G and 3200G models Resizable BAR, also known as Smart Access Memory, allows the CPU to access the entire frame buffer of a graphics card instead of smaller chunks. This can boost performance in some situations. To use resizable BAR, all three components (CPU, GPU, and motherboard) must support it.

[@nebelwerfer-itwerfsnebel]

Steve are you sure this isn't a ReBAR issues? AFAIK of only 3rd gen ryzen and b450 or newer mobo support ReBAR.

[@Hardwareunboxed]

Can't say for sure, though ReBar is enabled and the driver claims it is working. At the end of the day does it matter? All of that said, faster AM4 processors perform much better with the B580, though they are newer and therefore ReBar could be working as intended.

[@ChrisP872]

@@Hardwareunboxed I really think the issue is REBAR can be turned on for older hardware without actually getting REBAR behavior. If this is a driver overhead issue have spikes or mysterious dips in CPU usage been observed that coincide with lower framerates?

[@nathangamble125]

@@Hardwareunboxed "At the end of the day does it matter?" Um... yes! We want to understand what the problem is.

[@pandamikep2460]

@@Hardwareunboxed test it with ryzen 3000 or 5000 to be sure, since AMD says thats when Rebar is OFFICIALLY supported....

[@nonameyet2205]

@@nathangamble125 Technically it doesn't matter because regardless whether rebar is working or not this is the result that you will get if you're running this old CPU, and the problem is already mentioned in the title it's Overhead issue.

[@Woodzta]

The lack of outro music really gave this bad ending vibes

[@d9zirable]

No it's a cliffhanger

[@damagesan]

Felt like an open casket funeral for the B580

[@UTeewb]

The hardware unboxed version of the red wedding

[@terry9819]

This is kind of pointless when you test nearly everything at ultra/high quality. For anyone with a budget PC it's very common to reduce settings. Really misleading.

[@25MHzisbest]

It's printed on the LE box.

[@lexkoal8657]

Could it be because Resizable Bar isn't working properly on Ryzen 2600?

[@ChrisP872]

Yes, it could. Also, an Intel requirement for Arc is Ryzen 3000 non-G CPUs or newer.

[@Zhabich81]

What about i5-12400F or something like that?

[@shola23]

It's been fine for me

[@joemorgan8436]

If I had $1 for every time these guys smiled in their video thumbnails, I'd have $7

[@PixelYT-ts2fe]

Shower ahhh thought

[@krisz1156]

Bohoo my 2018 low-mid range CPU cant handle my 2024 gpu

[@UniqueUserTG]

Testing w/ CPUs that aren't supported and then calling a product broken is a real shady asshole thing to do. Is this video sponsored by AMD/Nvidia? Do better.

[@EthanBB]

I think the main problem of Hardware Canucks video were their extremely confusing graphs, yours are so much better.

[@Al_Lergic]

The Canadians just don't know how to make good graphs. It's the same with LTT.

[@valhallasashes4354]

I don't get the assumption that it's down to resizable bar. As you've shown yourself with having resizable enabled, you were able to observe the same effect. It could very well be a driver overhead issue, but I'm not at my point where I would assume that. One thing I would check first is the PCIE bandwidth. The B580 is a PCIE Gen4 card that's only wired for 8 lanes. Which means in an older system, like the platform Hardware Canucks tested on, they would only be getting x8 Gen3 speeds at best (always limited to the lowest common denominator rule). And yes, while the motherboard you tested on is a Gen4 board, it only operates at Gen4 speeds if you are using a Ryzen 3000 or 5000 CPU. So even with the board you used, with a 2600 installed, you would also be limited to x8 lanes of PCIE Gen3 bandwidth. I saw the Hardware Canucks video last night, and while I agreed with their assessment that it was an issue, and yes, people on older platforms (6+ years) absolutely take note of it and plan accordingly. I took serious issue with their assertion the B580 was "fundamentally broken". To me that came across as a gross exaggeration. Especially when their assumptions revolved around blaming ReBar, which Intel has always been more than clear about being a requirement to get the most out of the card due to the architecture. I don't own nor have any intention of getting a B580 and I've known about that requirement for months because Intel have been that vocal about the importance of ReBar. So from where I stand, it's unreasonable to label the B580 as "fundamentally broken" when the card is being used in a scenario that A, it was never designed for, and B Intel have always been very clear about the card having certain requirements to get the most out of. Now if the issue was narrowed down to an issue with PCIE bandwidth due to the lack of sufficient lanes when used on a Gen3 board (or in your case, a gen4 board with a Gen3 CPU installed) that could make for a much more interesting conversation to be had. Especially with the trend of modern GPUs being released with only 8 lanes wired because apparently "you don't need 16 lanes of bandwidth on Gen4 slots" on said card, without consideration for the still rather large majority of people, still rocking Gen3 interfaces (whether MB, CPU or both). One thing you could try is upping your CPU one generation to the 3600 (so a mostly comparable CPU, but one generation newer) where the primary difference would be the doubling of PCIE bandwidth due to the 3600 being a PCIE Gen4 CPU. If the issue with the B580 is the PCIE bandwidth, you should see a much bigger difference in performance improvement than can be accounted for by simple generational IPC improvements.

[@_lordtra]

I definetly agree. this might just be related to the B580 is not used in the intended way the specs tell you to.

[@leonfrancis3418]

Dang, I guess real-world tests are important, and one can't just test in a methodology that is most convenient for their content and channel while lecturing their audience.

[@dycedargselderbrother5353]

Eagerly awaiting "The haters are WRONG! Why REAL WORLD testing is important!"

[@corey2232]

No, this video is misleading. The B580 literally says it supports AMD 3000 series & Intel 10th gen and beyond. These guys tested on an Intel 9th gen which isn't supported, then complained there was issues... There shouldn't be any hysteria.

[@rathstar]

Great additional testing. Would have been nice to see a link to the original Canuck video in the video description as well as a comment. One last question would be whether a CPU like the less than £100 Ryzen 5 5600 would be enough for this not to be an issue.

[@DaveTheeMan-wj2nk]

My 5700x3d seems to be using the card perfectly fine :)

[@Hardwareunboxed]

5700X3D is much better, obviously :D That said the B580 doesn't stack up nearly as well against the RTX 4060 when using the 5700X3D.

[@DaveTheeMan-wj2nk]

*Update* Anyone reading this wondering the same. I did run it at high settings 1440p (NO upscaling) in hogs mead and the outside forest and the lake. With no ray tracing I was around 63-80+ fps With ray tracing reflections which seems to be default with "High" it was around AVG 40-55fps The 1% lows were around 27 GPu usage around 80-88% in hogsmead. The 5700x3d seems to do much much better. With that said, It would be interesting to see the 4060 vs the b580 using the 5700x3d. I'd be curious to see what would happen. I'd suspect in allot of games nearly no difference, and in some Esports styled games it would. ANd perhaps a few more demanding ray traced titles, although likely not all. P.S I am overclocked to 3200mhz lol. That may help some with those lows as showed with my other tests. +40 volt 108% power limit 140 core.

[@AdenilsonCavalcanti]

This is click bait at its finest.

[@tomaszp2027]

Yet here we are discussing it. I want an honest comparison, and I guess we'll get some proper comparisons and benchmarks before the stocks are replenished.

[@Henrix1998]

Isn't this kinda the same issue Nvidia had while ago? AMD drivers run on GPU (partially) while Nvidia (and Intel seemingly) on CPU

[@NoKiddingBoss]

"Had"? It never went away. Nvidia still has cpu overhead on their drivers to this day.

[@ranjitmandal1612]

😮

[@damara2268]

@@NoKiddingBoss They reduced it a year ago tho. Now its only around 10% higher cpu overhead than radeon, before that it was around 20%

[@MLWJ1993]

​@damara2268 Was that tested on the same CPU where this was previously visible (as in, it's not the case that CPU's just got faster & therefore not impacted by the overhead to the same degree)? I've personally not seen any testing on that, so that's why I'm asking 🙂

[@biggiebagel]

Im not sure this is an issue. As far as Im aware, ryzen 2000 does not support smart access memory. Intel was clear that Arc B requires smart access memory. If you are a budget builder you can find cheap cous that support SAM/ReBAR. Microcenter sells AM5 bundles with cpu memory and ram for under $300

[@WrexBF]

It's not a resizable bar issue. All ryzen CPUs and intel 8th gen and newer support rebar. Intel recommends intel 10th and amd 3000 because all of those systems supports rebar. Older systems need a BIOS update that adds rebar, and some motherboards didn't get that bios update (especially OEM prebuilts from companies like DELL and HP).

[@biggiebagel]

@@WrexBF I was not aware that Zen and Zen+ could support rebar. Do they need to be paired with a newer chip set? Regardless if you are buying used parts, are you actually going to buy Zen/Zen+ or anything older than 10th Gen anyway? In my experience even if a CPU is cheap, old motherboards can get really expensive.

[@ChrisP872]

@@biggiebagel Intel requirements says 10th gen intel and newer or Ryzen 3000 non-G and newer. Intel doesn't just say REBAR and any CPU. They are running tests with unsupported CPUs and saying there is a huge problem.

[@biggiebagel]

@@ChrisP872 got it, seems like a pretty minor issue but makes sense. Wouldn't put my 3060ti with my Athlon 5600 and expect it to work.

[@pctechloonie]

For those wondering PCI-SIG included ReBAR with PCIe 2.0 rollout back in 2007. Every single PCIe 2.0 CPU can support ReBAR with a BIOS modding tool. The official support thing being only 10th gen and 3000 series is a half truth. So stop complaining to HUB about it. Also I think including the i3-10100 and the i3-12100F in the testing would be very interesting as these are budget CPUs that have been used by a lot of people.

[@TheEnhas]

Personally I think anything older than 12th gen Intel and Zen 3 shouldn't be paired with a B580, which kind of defeats the whole point of it (and especially the B570). Both of those are fairly high increases in IPC over previous generations. 10th gen Intel and the Ryzen 3000 series (Zen 2) are from 2020 and 2019 respectively. Face it... they're old, but they still work well for gaming if you temper your expectations. But we're at the point where games are becoming more and more CPU demanding, and the B580's overhead won't do them any favors. 10th gen Intel in particular only has PCIe 3.0 and much lower IPC than 12th gen onward (essentially it has almost the same IPC as Skylake, an architecture from 2015), and Zen 2 is also falling behind. The problem is that there's likely a *lot* of people who have these CPUs or something slightly older (that still has ReBar support) and something like a GTX 1060 or RX 580 or something in that tier, and figure that the B580 would be a big upgrade. It doesn't help that virtually every review video says that it's the "best budget option" but don't point out that it's only the case if you pair it with a CPU that's maybe 2-3 years old at most.

[@pctechloonie]

@@TheEnhas can't argue with any of that. I stated this because people keep complaining that Steve uses a CPU that's not officially supported, which is BS. I doubt the i3-10100 will fare much better even if it's officially supported. On Reddit Steve even mentioned that 3600 and 5600 are having overhead issues + Wendell from Level1Tech even mentioned the i7-10700K being affected by overhead with B580. This ARC driver overhead issue will plague the ARC launch and it's no wonder why we haven't gotten the B770.

[@nonaurbizniz7440]

I don't think intel has ever said this will work well on systems that don't support rebar just the same as the previous arc line? It was always marketed at semi current gen low and mid end cpu not previous.

[@TheZoenGaming]

This almost looks like ReBAR isn't working in those games.

[@dustinmock46]

This is why so many people are begging for real world testing. Launch day testing with a 9800x3d is fine to see max performance but a 2600x is a reasonable CPU one might use with this GPU and it took MONTHS for any reviewer to find this issue out because no testing is done with modest hardware.

[@dycedargselderbrother5353]

Better be careful, they might reply with a smug, sarcastic video explaining how testing a $200 video card with a $600 CPU is the only logical choice.

[@WrexBF]

No.

[@moist_ointment]

Would like to see the same test on Intel 10th gen and/or Ryzen 3000 series as thats B580's minimum supported CPU - to see how much of a difference this one generation makes.

[@johnjames7332]

@@moist_ointment yeah but that video won't result in a lot of clicks, it's better to do clickbait videos so to get people either panic or reevaluate their buying behaviour.

[@Nah_no_thanks]

First Steve with reddit users mistake video. Now this? You tech boys are reealy hurting for views, huh? Why did you guys jump the gun? All you did was prove intels reccomended specs for ideal use. Stop being schills for your own intelligence. It makes you look silly, guys.

[@davidlandrum]

The glazing for this card at launch was crazy. 🍩

[@YuokoII]

Sometimes these youtubers are drama queens. They use products in conditions that are not recommended and being surprised that it doesn't work properly. What a surprise. Will wait for 1 hour video of crying GN blaming intel in all sins.

[@WrexBF]

It's not a resizable bar issue. All ryzen CPUs and intel 8th gen and newer support rebar. Intel recommends intel 10th and amd 3000 because all of those systems supports rebar. Older systems need a BIOS update that adds rebar, and some motherboards didn't get that bios update (especially OEM prebuilts from companies like DELL and HP).

[@johnjames7332]

@@WrexBF it's a known fact that Rebar on 9th gen or older CPUs is janky as fck and not recommended to even enable even if the option presents itself. Poor show from HU

[@hasnihossainsami8375]

Personally I think it's a non-issue. The B580 is way too fast for anything older than Zen 2 at 1080p, driver overhead or not, and I'd personally recommend Zen 3 at the minimum considering how cheap it is as a drop-in upgrade. You wouldn't pair a 4060 with a R5 2600, for example. Just because it's a cheap GPU doesn't mean you should put it in your 6-7 year old PC. My friend had a R5 2600 and 1660Ti, and in some recent games he was just about maxing out the CPU. He'd need a CPU upgrade before he replaced it with anything faster than a 2060 Super/2070, let alone a B580. I doubt we'd be talking about this if the B580 was a $350-400 card from Nvidia.

[@Ale-ch7xx]

Okay, go test it with the 5950x or 5800x3d on a B450, a520, a320, B350, or x370. Lets be 100% sure it is nothing with the PCIE 3.0 B580 is a completely different architecture from AMD which is a completely different architecture from Nvidia

[@bubsy3861]

300th chips are 3.0 only. And btw that ones support rebar.

[@Ale-ch7xx]

@@bubsy3861 Your comment made me lose brain cells. What are 300th chips? I wager 3.0 will slow that card down.

[@bubsy3861]

@@Ale-ch7xx b350 and x370. And 3.0 don't really slow down gpu at that point except 8 lane trash like 4060.

[@Ale-ch7xx]

@@bubsy3861 B580 is a completely different architecture and I wager it does. The 7600 XT does in select games.

[@DenverStarkey]

come on .. if you're on a 2600 .. just upgrade your processor to a 5700x3d or a 5800x3d. and to be fair the 4060 is also severly gimpd on that ryzen 2600 as well.

[@d9zirable]

5700x3d bottlenecks b580, see update vid

[@DenverStarkey]

@@d9zirable did and it only does so a very little bit. it's stil a cheap solution for folks that can't afford a whole ass new pc. especially if they already bought the B580 . they coudl also go with a 5800x3d as well

[@adrianconstantin1132]

One issue I had with Intel Arc is with dual monitors, using Combine Monitors option in the drivers (Eyefinity equivalent). Flipped orientation is needed for some monitors with a limited viewing angle for the LCD panel. But with Flipped orientation, Combine Monitors feature no longer works and just does nothing. I had a 2-months long ticket about this on Intel support forum, with no success, despite 2 driver updates released in between. The equivalent Eyefinity feature on AMD cards had no problem with this and worked as expected

[@williamrutter3619]

eta prime likes to dig out these old office pcs and put a graphics card in, i presume an old optiplex wouldnt be a good home for the b580.

[@Oishiilicious]

lmao, for real. The whole story is ridiculous. A CPU from 2011 is not compatible with 2024 graphics cards, crazy stuff. But the headline is out there to drive clicks.

[@williamrutter3619]

@@Oishiilicious Its just nice not to see ewaste and devices be useful for people.

[@giorgosmetalheart1767]

Please also test how it performs in PCIe 3.0. Some of us still use older mobos.

[@Hardwareunboxed]

PCIe 3.0 won't be an issue, as long as ReBAR is enabled.

[@GreyJanR]

It won't make a noticeable difference as it isn't fast enough to matter. As long as ReBar works, it'll perform roughly the same

[@QuentinStephens]

There's a video on KZbin showing this: there's a modest performance loss in average FPS but a significant loss in 0.1% lows.

[@nathangamble125]

@@Hardwareunboxed How do you know? Did you test it?

[@grandtheftautogaming1581]

@@Hardwareunboxed Support is only guaranteed on Comet Lake or Zen 2 and newer.

[@corvus917]

Oh dear… I hope the problem is at least avoidable for people using a Ryzen 5 5600. I had been hoping to upgrade to an Arc B580, though depending on how bad the driver overhead is, I may have to hold off.

[@tapioorankiaalto2457]

It's gonna be fine I think.

[@ranjitmandal1612]

Of course

[@Davinmk]

Zen 3 is fine

[@justmatt2655]

Hopefully will be fine but no way to know for sure until we see further testing

[@pandamikep2460]

its going to be fine because it can run resizable bar, i wish steve mentioned that intel RECOMMENDS ReBar on their arc GPUs. the tests steve showed was on two cpus that arent capable of ReBar, starting with ryzen 3000 and on its capable. I can guarantee it will level out and return to what its supposed to do.

[@pauldethick6175]

Thanks for this video, I am still running my Ryzen 2600 as it is still up to the task for everything I need it for. My 1660TI is getting a bit leggy though so I was considering a B580 to replace it, no chance now.

[@69texaseyes]

2600 is 7 years old.

[@ChrisP872]

You are on AM4 so you might be able to upgrade the CPU cheaply to a supported CPU per Intel's documentation. If you get Ryzen 3000 series make sure it isn't one of the G ones. The 3000G Ryzen use an older Ryzen core.

[@pauldethick6175]

@@ChrisP872 sadly its got a hp mobo which only supports zen1 and zen+ other wise I would put a 3600 in it. I might just bite the bullet and put a cheap 5000 series build together but if I can get a new card that will let the 2600 go for a few more years that would be great.