Harlan Ellison on Lynch's Dune

[@user-ty2uz4gb7v]

He's exactly right! There are many ways you could criticize Dune, but once you stop comparing it to the book and instead compare it to other movies, you see the specialness and the courage to make such a film and genuinely try to bring the uniqueness of dune to the screen. I saw the film before I read the books, and I did read all of them.

[@StrykerForge]

R.I.P. Harlan Ellison. Your work on Babylon 5 will always make you one of my heroes.

[@peterschancel7223]

One of my favorite Sci -Fi writers .... Back to the time of Reading and theater of the Mind... Deathbird Stories a great Start of Short works

[@sneakyking]

Correct

[@therespectedlex9794]

Might take a spade to the landfill sometime and check it out.

[@rederickfroders1978]

This man was never afraid to be direct and brutal and I admire that about him. He said it as it is, and if that hurt peoples feelings, those people should just get over it. That said he wasnt a mean spirited man, he was rebellious, and he called bullshit when he saw it, wherever it came from. Great man

[@MorlokKurak]

As a boy, Harlan was small for his age. Everyday. Everyday he got bullied and fought back. It didn't matter to him that he lost most of the time. He just never backed down. Those experiences as a child forged his personality. How could he not become a phenomenal writer?

[@landonjones258]

This man is known for being incredibly blunt and honest. He liked Lynch's Dune and so did I. There was something dark and strange and rich and original about it. However, it could have been so much more. If you want to see a really savage opinion of it, ask Lynch himself. He actually regrets making it, because he did not have final cut and he feels it was ruined.

[@AndrewReevesArt]

Amen - I loved Lynch’s version - the new one is soulless 🐛

[@aldunlop4622]

I agree with your comments, and I love it for being "alien", too much sci-fi just feels like Americans in Space or Earth People in space. Space civs should feel weird, and fucked up, strange, bizarre and I want Dune to go further than the movie, BUT they could never be made commercially, and that's just the sad fact of high art. Movies have to be dumbed down to reach wide audiences these days, the audience has become too conservative, they want squeaky clean Marvel movies, not weird sci-fi. And that's why Ellison is right, some books should just remain books, unless someone like Elon Musk, who LOVES Dune wanted to throw a ton of money at it, and not care if it made a profit.

[@aldunlop4622]

@@AndrewReevesArt I love(d) it too. So fucked up and weird, it actually FELT alien.

[@Karaokuma]

I wouldn't say he "liked" it, but he at least could appreciate the irony that this total dumpster fire of a film is still a cult classic.

[@urmzogna]

Loved the films and the Dune Books. And Harlan was a fantastic person and Author. Also loved his work.

[@burpostockings]

Lol cut the shit. People who really love Ellison, know he was a nut and a real dick :D

[@urmzogna]

@@burpostockings you can talk about your experiences...he never did me wrong; he took me and my gal to dinner; He was consciousness but some of those surrounding him were less so. He battled dark corporations or anyone who did him wrong.

[@Terrakinetic]

0:35 For me it's the pacing. No film will ever pause for the amount of time you really need to digest the philosophy and the allegory of it all. If you're moving at a living breathing actor's pace, you're just watching a series of events.

[@bingerz237]

The soundtrack is top-notch, some shots and moments are true standouts, and the design for the sandworms looks great. I get why Lynch disowned the picture, but there's no denying the high level of talent that went into the production. Plus it made Blue Velvet possible.

[@FedeCorino]

Lynch no repudio la película por la calidad, sino por no tener el montaje final

[@Sab_MJsMama]

Listen to Mr. Ellison...so true. RIP.

[@camillaaskey7707]

Bullshit. Lynch did a great job with this movie.

[@Marc-n5e]

I ain't listening to no yiddy. Foh

[@beckoning-chasm]

Lynch's "Dune" is seriously underrated. I rewatch it on regular basis. I've seen the new Part One once, and have no desire to rewatch it or see Part Two at all. I'm sure they're great. Enjoy them.

[@lesweizman388]

i miss harlan

[@Jamo-uy4pn]

I wonder how Harlan would he feel about the new dune movie in 2020

[@camillaaskey7707]

Who cares?

[@-Trauma.]

Don't blame the movie studios, actors, directors, producers, etc. Blame the audience. It's our fault honestly. We keep supporting low quality storytelling for special effects.

[@cloudtx]

@@camillaaskey7707 The people who liked Harlan's opinions? Way to be an asshole, you asshole.

[@thursoberwick1948]

Or 2021 or 2022 or whenever this horrible global reformation and theft finishes.

[@badlaamaurukehu]

Bunk

[@meesalikeu]

harlan knows this movie was taken away from lynch but he still likes it a lot for all the reasons he says and more and i agree with him.

[@michaelcristel3060]

Was never a huge fan of the book until I got into my 20s. I also feel the movie didn't reach it's proper height until the 4-hour unedited version. The new preface provided a stronger backstory (the narration and thought bubble approach I felt was brilliant in order to help the general audiences understand the story elements) and I just got to enjoy it all over again, much like the longer cuts of Lord of the Rings. As harsh a critic as Ellison was, for him to say it held up was a bold statement. Being able to make a film vision that supports the original story is difficult. American audiences want to be spoon-fed, and so we're given a happy ending (downpour on Arrakis) that had no business happening. It's like ending Romeo and Juliet with a deus ex machina and they live happily ever after. The original premise of The Matrix was that humans were enslaved in order to become organic transistors in a giant, planet-sized CPU built by the Machines. The treatment was adopted by an initial story by Neil Gaiman, but it was later dropped in favor of the battery/energy source plot, which made no sense logistically or scientifically.

[@nightey975]

I love how Harlan went from grumpy middle aged man to a happy grandpa.

[@deplant5998]

I thought i was the only one who liked this movie. It captures the weirdness / alienness (?) beautifully. I loved it. I thought it captured the book well. All film is translation. It is by will alone i set my mind in motion. I must not fear, for fear is the mind killer. I dread the new one, and the old tv series was just embarrassing....

[@thursoberwick1948]

I've always enjoyed it. I first saw it as a little boy and was blown away by the opening scenes (Irulan's intro and the Emperor meeting the guild). It had a bigger wow factor than Star Wars for me. That said, there are some major flaws. I've never been that keen on some of the Fremen scenes.

[@theglowingman5310]

So… thoughts on the new one?

[@AndrewReevesArt]

It was amazing - F the haters. 🐛

[@KingFaerin]

Wird but distorted. Dune has mystique but never in the Twin Peaksian way.

[@DavidCarroll-t5g]

I remember walking out of the theater being not displeased with it, as it hit upon quite a few of the more potent subjects as was found in the book. The fight scenes toward the end were truly lacking however.

[@duffhood2334]

RIP.

[@therespectedlex9794]

I like his 'It did/not...' list. He's superb

[@annabelablue]

Harlan actually likes a movie???

[@therexbellator]

Not surprising. I think Harlan Ellison's experience in Hollywood tempered him to understand the filmmaking process; he understood that adaptations are rarely if ever perfect translations from the source. Judging from what he's saying here I think he understands that something doesn't have to be perfect to be enjoyable. Detractors of the Lynch version get caught up in the minutia of the text without thinking about the obligations a filmmaker has to a broader audience not just those who've read the book. Such considerations are irrelevant to a film. A film's job is to tell a story and entertain. Lynch's Dune IS flawed but it is also very ambitious, its production quality was superb for its era, the cast is a once-in-a-lifetime constellation of movie stars, the soundtrack is phenomenal, and the cinematography and set/costume design are magnificent. Even if you are bothered by the adaptation one should be able to appreciate it for all the other things it does right.

[@maskcollector6949]

@@therexbellator And yet the main actor kind of ruins the main character and it's hard to watch because he's so green, he was miscast and I think that was the crux in it's overall failure at market. Harlan, ironically, put it nicely. He made it corny as fuck.

[@kamdan2011]

He’s gotta have a standard, right?

[@Dr170]

That's not fair, Harlan likes oodles of movies... as long as he saw them before age sixteen, that is 😂

[@aldunlop4622]

I love it too.

[@basedokadaizo]

"okay, Mr. Ellison, we're talking about Du--" "SO ABOUT MOBY DICK." "...sir?"

[@therespectedlex9794]

Clever, but a pet intellectual snobbery.

[@proto-geek248]

HA 🙄

[@DrunkenCoward1]

"Mr. Ellison, please stay on topic." "1:22"

[@JulianThursday13]

I love (almost) every movie David Lynch has ever made, he's my favorite director, and my 80% of my top movies of all time is made out of David Lynch movies. But I never watched the movie Dune in my life, and I'm afraid to do so after watching Jodorowsky's Dune. After watching that documentary, I feel like only Jodorowsky could have done justice to that source material, and everything else would be "less than".

[@thursoberwick1948]

Jodo's Dune would have been bad news. It would have sunk the studio and killed off SF as a genre for ten or maybe twenty years. He never had control of money.

[@narcissesmith9466]

And what do you think about the new Dune movie coming out

[@thursoberwick1948]

@@narcissesmith9466 A case of we'll see.

[@sethwiseman1017]

Jodorowsky’s Dune would have been terrible….and that documentary gave him the sucking off of the century. It was entertaining but puts forward a completely false narrative.

[@cheshire_skatkat9093]

Well if I am correct David Lynch had his name removed from the Dune movie because they edited the hell out of it to such a point he felt it wasn't even his vision anymore.

[@N_Loco_Parenthesis]

Absolutely right.

[@JWS1313]

Harlan's words here are what I feel about the Lord of The Rings books.

[@damouze]

If a movie gets Harlan Ellison's stamp of approval, it must be worth it. The man was famous for his directness and bluntness. And I agree with his assessment in the case of Lynch's Dune.

[@GhANeC]

Harlan died before villeneuve’s Dune. Just the sheer shame.

[@jlomesou]

You can say that about any movie based on a book. Sometimes the movie iterations do well. It all depends on the director really and how much they choose to stay with the original literature.

[@RevanAlaire]

Ellison has to be the first American I have witnessed pronouncing "von" correctly.

[@therespectedlex9794]

Yeah, and as they say in Yiddish "les and gay".

[@JimmyBagOfDonuts]

He's right. B rate movie, of an A rate book, and it winds up a classic. Go figure.

[@camillaaskey7707]

What a load of shit. This idiot doesn't know what he's talking about. I saw it in London last year. 70mm sold out screening and everyone there loved it.

[@mrblobby7864]

@@camillaaskey7707 He was talking about how it was received at the time though. People didn't like it when it came out but it's garnered a large cult following in recent years.

[@rodneyadderton1077]

@@mrblobby7864 Yeah it bombed at the box office.

[@saidi7975]

@@camillaaskey7707 I am with you. People just love bitching. And I've read the book, it's dry as hell so at least Lynch made it enjoyable...

[@tasosalexiadis7748]

@@saidi7975 It is the exact opposite! The book comes alive while Lynch's version of a movie is a dry B-rated movie.

[@Melvinshermen]

Rip aka proto youtuber rant guy

[@FriedEggsWithChips]

Wow. I’ve got a copy somewhere I’ve never watched. Guess I’ll try it out sometime soon.

[@patrickmccormack4318]

What would Harlan Ellison say about the the latest theatrical version of Dune?

[@proto-geek248]

Maybe he'd think it was dreary & that Lady Jessica was drab & miscast like I do.

[@TheLowBrassDude]

Hard to say.

[@Theomite]

First time I saw the film was when they released the Letterbox VHS version in the late 90s. I hadn't read the books yet (still too intimidated, plus high school kept me distracted) so I saw the movie and fell hard for it. I even bought a copy of the VHS for myself and put it in my library. For a couple years now I've been hunting artifacts from the '84 release and found a few. But Ellison, as usual, is right: the movie works in spite of everything that went wrong with it, and that's miraculous.

[@Marc-n5e]

Typical American. You would rather take the easy route and watch the movie instead of reading. No wonder your country is on the decline.

[@JoeyArmstrong2800]

Till this day, when I read Frank Herbert's novel I think of the characters from David Lynch's movie. Go figure.

[@DarkOverlord96]

I mean, Frank Herbert himself thought that when he saw the movie, he felt that, visually, the movie was a fantastic representation of the book.

[@proto-geek248]

I absolutely agree with Harlan on this. Not that I didn't like Dune 1984, it's just that I'd already had my own mental vision & the movie kind of messed with it until I'd read it again.

[@PaulSmith-qs1es]

Is there a complete version of this interview somewhere?

[@DuneInfo]

The full "Impressions of Dune" documentary is at this playlist: kzbin.info/aero/PL53111F55AC8B7DA2

[@dolorripas469]

Harlan Ellison still gives me AM vibes.

[@denifnaf5874]

AM was a self insert

[@justapsycho3914]

I see Blood Meridian the same way Ellison sees Dune

[@LfunkeyA]

Lynch-pin indeed. Sadly, even Lynch was not proud of it, well, not so much the film itself but the final cut.

[@stevend.bennett427]

I walked out of the book after 100 pages and the movie after an hour. Drive out, actually, as we were in a drive-in.

[@heydrewskie]

Maybe he'd like the new one!

[@TankUni]

I wonder what he'd say about Villeneuve's version.

[@KingFaerin]

Axletree works its way, revolves round round round. Not without creeking. In the Axolotl tank, a fabulously atavistic monstrosity is born. Doomed to be reborn time and again.

[@SaintJermania]

Despite even Lynch's opinion, I love Dune, for it's mesmerizing strangeness. I much prefer it to Villeneuve's, which for me, is pretty land and toothless.

[@michaellopez2070]

Never heard someone say a book shouldn't be made in to the movie.

[@oskarneuburger6809]

The OG hater, my man always kept it real

[@cheshire_skatkat9093]

My problem is I can't envision when I read. Not like when I used to as a kid.

[@xavierpaquin]

Imagine the kind of dreamy poetry it could have been if Lynch had been unleashed

[@Kain1805]

Another good example for books that should stay books are Lovecraft's works

[@devenalley]

Having seen Dune in theatres a while back I must say it was quite underwhelming.

[@fgdj2000]

Where are the Harlan Ellisons of the world. You know, the eccentric temperamental guy who won't take Sh!t from anyone, but had the right to because they were really smart and really knew their stuff. And yet, if you were straight with them, they'd be straight with you (in a good way).

[@Dr170]

Probably a lot of them are being conflated with people who think pathologically going against the grain constitutes a personality. People have become so allergic to contrary opinions even when it is invaluable to maintaining and re-assessing the nuances of your own.

[@plaidchuck]

@@Dr170 Yeah that's the problem now. People are equating being edgelords and contrarians with no substance to the great satirists of yore like Twain, Swift, or Parker.

[@PhillipsAlbright]

as an adaptation of the book this movie fails in many ways, but on its own it holds up well as a sci fi movie from the time.

[@m1g0t0]

Yeah that super secret fan edit a few years ago where they tried to exclude all the sonic beam shit and used the poor demo shots to fill in from the novel. The new movie leaves out Herbert's interesting dialog and paraphrases it. Lynch didn't.

[@plaidchuck]

I still think it’s unfilmable. The new movie is the best that can be done for a commercial profit seeking venture. Let’s be honest, it’s a 400 page book where the bulk of the plot advancement happens within about 50 pages. That’s about impossible to adapt. Also, monologues just aren’t done for contemporary movies, for better or worse; that alone cuts out some of the best lines from the books.

[@m1g0t0]

@@plaidchuck I agree. It's a huge world-building novel and the closest thing to it is that 4 hour fan-made monstrosity.

[@topdamagewizard]

This is one where Harlan was wrong. A lot of people are never going to read the book. Media is media is media. Even a bad Dune is still Dune. And a bad Dune will lead some people to the books. I love the book. I love the "bad" movie. I love the new ones. We are a species of story tellers. Find me a million people and have them tell the same story. And you will have exactly one million different versions of the same story.

[@SpreadingtheMuse]

Ellison was also easily controlled. He had a rip-roaring case of Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Meaning he would automatically take the opposite position of "the man." Since "the man" in Dune's case had panned the movie, Ellison had to be for it. (By the same bias he was against such overwhelming crowd pleasers such as Back to the Future.) Dune 84 is near unwatchable, taking the worst choice of every creative decision. The FX are sub-par even for the mid 80s, and the voice overs were ridiculous.

[@plaidchuck]

It's very dark in that 80s way like other fantasy/scifi movies like Highlander, Empire Strikes Back and the Alien series, but that's more of the style of the time than something specific to Dune I would say.

[@DarkOverlord96]

I'm honestly *REALLY* curious about what Ellison thought of Jodorowsky's Dune.

[@greyeyed123]

Ellison's not wrong.

[@neilreynolds3858]

I read Dune in the magazines first when it came out and wasn't impressed. I watched the movie and don't remember anything except the navigator and Patrick Stewart yelling A-Cha. I'm not a spiritual person so there was really nothing there for me. Star Wars was like that too - if you don't believe in the Force, what is there?

[@Energyone]

The shows are better. The movie was a mess.

[@therexbellator]

Give me a beautiful mess with an amazing cast over a sterile, low budget adaptation that was Sci-Fi's Dune (Children of Dune, however, was a far better production).

[@Energyone]

@@therexbellator Yeah I've been meaning to watch Children - but no, Sci-Fi's Dune was better than the old movie.

[@therespectedlex9794]

Philistine

[@Energyone]

@@therespectedlex9794 2nd new movie coming in March I think btw.

[@therespectedlex9794]

@@Energyone Yeah, and it's woke with better technical effects. But somewhat philistine again.

[@rayhill5767]

It had imagination and weirdness- unlike the new version which is forgettable

[@rodneykingston6420]

most boring, least "drawing in" book I ever read to completion.

[@meursault7030]

The music was great, though.

[@sisyphusofephyra7801]

Well this aged poorly

[@therespectedlex9794]

You ought to live in a spaz town.

[@Eliel20117]

take some notes dennis villenueve (it doesn´t help either that you also fucked it up blade runner)

[@thursoberwick1948]

Blade Runner 2049 is one of the best science fiction films of recent years - I would put it ahead of Arrival, Passengers, the Martian, Interstellar, Gravity etc which got greater acclaim.

[@Eliel20117]

@@thursoberwick1948 it was a mediocre product filled with cheap drama

[@thursoberwick1948]

@@Eliel20117 Not my impression at all. I thought it was visually impressive right through. I would have cut out the callbacks to the original Bladerunner, but I'm struggling to think of any other 21st century science fiction movies which have stuck with me the same way.

[@badlaamaurukehu]

@@thursoberwick1948 A regurgitated abomination of a product with a title.

[@sclogse1]

@@badlaamaurukehu You guys having enough fun?

[@onepcwhiz]

It's so lame (IMO) compared to SyFy's Dune.

[@micahnewman]

No.

[@Johnston212]

It was actually SciFi's Dune and Children of Dune. I heard that they might have done God Emperor of Dune, but then they became Syfy and...well...

[@thursoberwick1948]

The TV version owes an obvious debt to Lynch, even to the point of including ideas from it which are not in the book. Their version of Shaddam IV is lacking.

[@joncarroll2040]

SyFy's Dune blew all their money on colored lightbulbs and hats.

[@JesusRocksTryPrayin]

this guy is sorta annoying. I bet he has hemmeroids in this; look at how he sitz

[@camillaaskey7707]

@@meow_bastard Fuck off tosser

[@sclogse1]

Harlan is a HUGE scifi writer. And was an extremely lively pistol of a guy. I highly recommend watching this. kzbin.info/www/bejne/nHnJkHeqmN2bpqc

[@nunyabizness6595]

I interviewed him in the 70s for my college paper. So in my view he is one of the most generous guys, giving his time like that. A highlight in my life.😮😮😮

[@JesusRocksTryPrayin]

@@nunyabizness6595 Yikes, I was such a rude twerp 5 years ago... And, it's rad you interviewed him :D That'd be amazing. Apologizes for senseless humor!

[@Marc-n5e]

​@@JesusRocksTryPrayinno fuck that. Stand on what you said. You can be a genius and still be annoying af.

[@GreedAndSelfishness]

Biggest jew.

[@LuxuryLenoxLuditoryLuthorLob]

What 😂

[@rellman85]

Which is why we all love him