Harley Davidson Embraces Its Decline

[@hugowinzer313]

Another awesome vid, thanks!!!

[@adminadmin9997]

T-mobiles new CEO is a perfect example of a person who really turned a company around. He took risk, slashed prices, had some of the best customer service, they fought for existing customers to stay with tmobile, they offered promotions for customer who would switch from the competition. They did so well they bought out metro pcs and Sprint.

[@cycletron]

I am rooting for HD, I don't appreciate their lack of transparency from them lately so the crystal ball is a bit murky.

[@tomtemple69]

yeah, we switched to tmobile back in 2020, phenomenal value, amazing customer service and they have great coverage and speed in my area we used to have verizon and couldn't even make a call from my house now, we have tmobile and the tower is 2 miles away, i get insane data speed at home, its better than my wifi family plan of 5 lines costs $120 a month, no hidden fees/taxes BS that's how you run a business

[@io3ard]

It's a shame. This miserable management. Are they paid by the competition or why are they ruining the company? Willy G. probably can't sleep well at night anymore.

[@geraldnichols4965]

I'm not sure where you're getting your information. Harley had the #1 selling motorcycle in the U.S. in 2019. The Iron 1200. Price wise, the same or lower than motorcycles half its displacement. They have improved their reliability ranking over the last 10 years to number 4. The first quarter of 2021 was highly profitable. They are manufacturing and selling many motorcycles. Less reliance on parts from China is part of it. China, Mainstream news, the European Union are part of constant negativity.

[@tomtemple69]

@@geraldnichols4965 you must have not heard of what's been happening in the world after 2019

[@gregshort2258]

One issue I've seen over the years is in the late 90s until 2006 many people I knew were retiring and buying a Harley many of them were first time riders but it was a fad they weren't really riders. Now 15 years later the fad ended and these first time riders are all turning 80 and are selling there bikes. here in northern California the market is flooded with ultra classics that are 15 to 20 years old with less than 3,000 miles on them . Many of the fad riders discovered two things about riding the air conditioner works great in the winter and the heater works great in the summer. A friend of mine just picked up a ultra classic cvo about 15 years old we went for a ride and it turned over 3000 miles when we were riding.

[@cycletron]

Excellent comments. You are right. There is a huge wave of riders aging out which will produce an even bigger glut of used bikes in the next 5 to 10 years.

[@kencarp57]

Nailed it! There is a literal FLOTILLA of older low mileage "Garage Queen" Harley touring bikes out there for sale, at very low prices. And, those bikes don't have all of the new electronic crap to break on them!

[@29687ray]

Went to buy a very simple part at the Harley shop. They were extremely rude. Went home and ordered for JP cycles

[@29687ray]

@Krieger I've been a Harley Davidson nut for 43 years. Now they have forgotten who kept them afloat for over a hundred years. I'm done with their sorry asses.

[@tonydoggett7627]

My Australian dealership experience. my electricians work uniform is similar in colour to the states police uniform. I heard the Salesman mutter “F..kin Pig” as I was looking around. I corrected him pointing to my work logo. That was my last time in a HD dealer.

[@marcuslittle4428]

JP cycles hah! I hope UPS did not lose your delivery. I bought a tire from them recently that was delivered to the wrong address and lost. The company lied about filing a claim, so I filed one instead. Got weeks of getting no where run around by both UPS and JP. JP’s UPS person refused to cooperate with UPS to resolve, and also refused to refund me, as I had to order another tire some where else. The only reason I eventually received a refund is because the tire was on back order so the supervisor agreed to a refund. I’ll never do business with them again! Had been buying my motorcycle tires from them since 2014! Yes, I know it’s just my experience, but I had to rant to someone about.

[@29687ray]

@@marcuslittle4428 never had a problem

[@29687ray]

@@tonydoggett7627 that's horrible.

[@2cqql1]

Dealers acting like those used bikes are gold!

[@Dinoxt12]

And then they add on all kinds of get the bike ready fee's around $800.00 and other Bull Crap Fee's . You just can't buy a used Harley from a dealer unless you willing to take the gas-pipe.

[@PHXGlock]

There is more profit in used vehicles.

[@2cqql1]

@@PHXGlock I wouldn't feel so bad if I had not bought 5 Harleys from them over the years. I want to trade my Limited for a reasonably new Heritage or 'Glide. They just want too freakin much. No consideration for loyalty.

[@dougfisher1885]

The thing that has worked well for me is buy used Harleys from used ( motorcycle) !!! dealers

[@markurbancowboy]

@@dougfisher1885 Yep, buy an HD from a non Harley dealer and you don't pay as much. I found that out also.

[@tokyosmash]

Their complete ignorance or willful disregard for the people who have made them successful is baffling.

[@geraldnichols4965]

I was wondering what you were talking about. So, I went to a Harley dealer and a typically Harley (although there was an Indian there too) biker bar and listened for hours. Harleys never came up. All kinds of other topics. But, not motorcycles except we showed off our motorcycles. The Harley dealer sold over 100 Harleys in April 2022 and over 100 in March of 2021. Even on Tuesday in an hours span I saw 3 line up that were sold. Harley's first quarter sales are great! And, the Pan America they got a VIN number today, meaning it was on the truck, and it sold within the hour. And, the one year waiting list is bogus. They can't sell a bike until they have a VIN. There is no waiting list. People saying there is a year waiting don't have a clue about what they are talking about. They just want people to not buy Harleys.

[@1010marley]

Should've kept Buel. That could've been the sport performance models kinda like Honda and Acura.

[@cycletron]

I agree. Look what a niche line like the Scrambler has done for Ducati. Even Porsche had the sense to start selling SUV versions of their cars 20 years ago which probably saved them.

[@markman63]

Why did they buy and then shelve buell ?

Harley Davidson is the Blackberry of motorcycles. It used to be the "The King" and slept at the throne. Now, just about every other brand has better options and name alone isn't enough to sell motorcycles. Harley will become niche and will slowly die off as Euro 5 and other regulations make it impossible to keep air cooled bikes on the market.

[@cycletron]

Well said. Sad but true.

[@robertpolkamp]

Why does the EU have such a hard on for combustion engines?

@@robertpolkamp You mean a care of engine efficiency and the quality of the air we breathe? It's called trying to live in the 21st century.

[@geraldnichols4965]

@@robertpolkamp Owned by globists who want all countries under their u elected control. Look it up.

[@geraldnichols4965]

@ OK sudo ecologist, what is your solution? If you had a motorcycle with no regulations it would still be much more ecology friendly than your car. So, make all cars meet the motorcycle level if pollution. Please don't mention CO2 production. You'll be displaying your ignorance fir the world to see.

[@mr.robert2507]

I received my motorcycle license in 1969 and bought my first Harley the same year. I'm still riding and recently bought a 2020 Harley. I've bought a total of 16 bikes from Harley. The bikes have evolved dramatically during that time. What hasn't changed is, the annual stories of the inexorable demise of the Motor Company. That never changes.

[@cycletron]

Thanks for your comments. Their bike sales are down over 150,000 units since 2006 which has got to be at least painful.

[@Thecrazyvaclav]

Mr. Robert evolved dramatically you say, have they got another 3hp out the engines? Harley are great at turning petrol ( gas if you're outside the civilised world) into noise, but the bikes are awful, best used as boat anchors tbh

[@Bertuslouw76]

Don’t worry, other companies like Indian, Triumph, Honda and BMW will be eager to offer customers better value for money motorcycles. Harley Davidson will probably be bought by the Chinese, it will be a Chinese Davidson. 😂

[@stevekafka]

Bertus Louw I’ve recently seen information that sale of controlling interest of Harley was sold in 2014 to Kawasaki Heavy industries and have also been buying the electronics from both China and Mexico!

[@BastardX13]

Good digging Kafka! Was wondering about foreign control, myself. Thanks

[@geraldnichols4965]

Maybe Honda. The rest are not even in the running: 2020 U S. Market share Harley-Davidson 31.1 Honda 20.8 Yamaha 12.2 Kawasaki 11.9 Suzuki 5.3 BMW 3.2 Other brands 15.5 Notice Triumph isn't even listed and BMW is one tenth the size. And, in 2019, the Harley Davidson Iron 1200 was the best selling motorcycle model in the U.S. That's the one I bought.🙂 The closest BMW got was number 10. Behind the Honda Grom. allaboutmotorcycle.com/highest-selling-motorcycles/

[@morrisdennis]

I think ur right?

[@DrFelch]

I have ridden many different brands, and owned two different modern Harleys. Never again. I'm just going to do myself and my wallet a huge favor and ride well built, modern Japanese motorcycles with good front line tech. One of the Harleys I had was OK. A Fat Bob. Ran good, not super slow, but WAY overpriced for what you get. Then, I went for a 2016 Road Glide special. Big mistake. It ran good, drove OK, but everything else wanted to break almost immediately after purchase. Infotainment, switchgear, even the damn kickstand, and the wait for a service apt. was generally at least 6 weeks. ALso, there was the issue that the thing weighed 900 lbs and only had about 90HP. Sure, It looked cool, at first, but after a short time I was embarrassed by it. Just an oversized, gaudy lump that can barely get out of it's own way. When I got rid of it, I was so happy. Didn't even care about how much $ I lost. To me, Harley used to have "mystique" and "cache". Now, all they have is BAGGAGE, and I'm done with them, their customer base, the insipid, boring, flag waving, brain dead jingoism, the flat out sexism of their dealer ads, etc. At this point, everything about them is FAKE and stupid.

[@verlinswarey507]

Wow-I didn’t think it was possible for someone to hate Harley Davidson and what they ‘stand’ for worse than I do!

[@TexHoss1]

DAMN !!!!!! Sounds like bad luck all around for you. People laugh at my old ass all the time & make their comments look at that old fart on that metric. I never have any problems to speak of, sure don't have the cash outlay that there is owning a Harley or an Indian. I mean shit I just bought my 3rd Honda VTX 1800 T a month ago. An 08 model with a little over 9000 miles on it for $3500.00. I will ride it for nothing by the time I quit riding it. The last 2 1800's I had over 100,000 miles on each of them & they were still going strong with no problems, just general maintenance. Well the last 1 I can't say that a a car squashed it but it would have been. You can buy the metrics for very small amount of denario & make it into the bike you want & still not have 1/2 of what you would in a Harley or Indian. They will go further & for a whole lot less denario.

[@alank808]

have owned 13 harleys thru the yrs. and 36 total bikes. Left harley last yr. and will never contribute a penny to them again. Poor service, carlot like dealerships (no ma and pa ) overpriced and under built.

[@jasonrichardwatts]

I’m in the same boat. I’m selling mine at a loss and I don’t even care, I just want out of their Scientology-like cult. $700+ for a kid “technician” to complete a 3 hole oil service. No thanks…

[@beeweb1137]

With the economy as it is no one is going to buy a Bike that cost as much as a house when they can get a already built bike with all the accessories for a quarter of the price. Add the way Corporate is throwing their base under the bus and you have disaster.

[@worldofzap]

You must be talking about a house with wheels 🤣

[@FXFBS540]

You can sleep on a bike, but you can't race a house.

[@doncarlo5]

@@FXFBS540 well, I 've tried to sleep on my bike ... it's easier to sleep on a wet sidewalk ... believe me ... Yes YES , I do get your point , though !

[@geraldnichols4965]

You seem to espouse a great amount of negativity without giving any details. I have an Iron 1200. Name me a major brand 1200cc motorcycle (with 60 rwhp and 67 rwlbft of torque or a total of 127 when adding the two) at one quarter of the $9999 purchase price. Btw - there has to be forward controls(for handicap reasons) a touring 2-up seat, rear footpegs, and a touring clip on windshield available for it. I'm waiting. I really want to buy the bike you say I can that is everything mine is at a quarter the price. Because, I didn't find these specs in any other bike. No, Ducati, Husqvarna, KTM, Royal Enfield, Indian and many more are not major motorcycle brands by any stretch of the imagination. I have yet to find forward controls fir anything but a Harley.

[@geraldnichols4965]

As far as throwing their base under the bus, that is total unsubstantiated BS.

[@scottybottorff6259]

Its so typical of corporate raiding destroying an american company from within

[@davidkeller2832]

What corporate raiding? A group of investors bought-out AMF way back in 1981 and there has not been any change in ownership since. Sure, shareholders come and go but no raiding is going on (yet). The problem is changing demographics and Harley sticks to a specific formula. Another factor is that there could be a lot of people buying Harleys but they are buying the used bikes sold by the Boomers who are aging-out, not the brand new bikes.

[@lowcountryrob170]

Corporate raiding, no. Hiring the wrong the CEO, definitely. Harley has been unwilling to change and embrace a changing demographic. Now Jochen Zeitz wants to make the company a luxury brand. While I’m sure some Harley owners want that, most of us are working class, blue collar people who can’t afford that. Harley needs a new board, and since I don’t see that happening, I will be shocked if they make it to see 2030.

[@davidkeller2832]

@@lowcountryrob170 Good point about management decisions. Hard to say if going "full luxury" is a bad idea. Ford did the same by abandoning the passenger car market (Mustang being the exception) and so far, it seems to be working near term. If Harley is not too loaded-up with debt, then they may be able to survive this but if they are buried in debt, that is a big problem.

[@mikeskidmore6754]

@@davidkeller2832 What Cave have you been living in AMF really ran HD into the Ground with really poor quality control .. Some HD Family Members and friends bought HD back from American Foundation Tool.. Then they put HD on the Stock Market now they are always trying to pay out big dividends to the share holdrs and not re-investing inot upgrading the bikes.. The expeciton is the Live Wire which was a total failure .. and now the Pan American which has sold so many Pre-orders they are not taking any new orders at this time..

[@davidkeller2832]

@@mikeskidmore6754 Clearly, you don't know what corporate raiding is.

[@SteveHMcIntosh]

2017 I bought a Road Glide Special, 35k... I bought it because Harley just came out with the Milwaukee 8. I waited to buy the bike until the new motor came out because Traditionally Harley only changes their motor every 10 or 12 years, thus the value of my bike should hold. The next Year, they came out with an upgraded version of the Milwaukee 8 and a larger front wheel, leaving mine much less desirable. The option i had at that point was to spend boatloads of money on upgrades, (just to get it to the same level ad the new 2018, or buy a new bike..) I put my bike up for sale in 2018 with 5k miles on it, and had lots of extras, I owed 21k on it and would have been glad to get out from under it. When I took it to dealer they offered me 14k... I tried to sell it on the internet and other places, and couldn't get anywhere near 21k. I started lowering the price just to see how much of a loss I would have to take and I couldn't even sell it for 16k... (not a scratch on my bike) So Basically I had to pay someone to take it off my hands (meanwhile im still paying $533 Per Month -- Harley Finance RIPS you off on interest) of if I could only get 16k for a bile I owed 21k on, id have to waste another 5k just to get rid of it. By contrast, I sold my 2014 Chevy Silverado back tot he dealer I bought it from, and they cut me a check for $2400 and paid it off. I called and tried to work out something with Harley and was so disappointed in the company as a whole (and lets not even talk about how much money I spent with Harley on Clothes and other accessories... jeezzz) Finally I decided to do a voluntary Repo and drove my bike up to the dealer I bought it from, handed them the keys.. The manager understood and was cool about the whole situation. I still made my next payment, then walked away from Harley forever. As my Tshirts wear out, and other Harley paraphernalia, I will throw them in the trash and never look back. Here is a video of my Bike.. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oZDFnZifjtV4itk

[@cycletron]

Thanks for your comments. Sorry to hear about your issues. Beautiful bike though (I really love orange on a bike). I did another video about the very topic you raise (Harley's don't hold their value anymore). Here is the link if you are interested. kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6abhIClftWpgMU Thanks for watching!

[@morrisdennis]

Ive heard that story many times

[@BartStar009]

yes, you are correct ! to me it's crazy how HD makes an electric bike but they refuse to make a lower cost alternative bike similar to the Japanese bikes

[@cycletron]

I think they are also loosing ground to Indian in the heavy weight segment.

[@mauserwinchester]

Indian dealerships have a lot of used Harleys for sale.

[@Adventureseeker22]

When people can’t afford the product you can’t sell the product. The chart show the build up to the recession. As we approach a new problem I fear we may see a fall of another king.

[@geraldnichols4965]

Always possible. But, Harley is not the only motorcycle company hurting. And, they kind if aren't now. Poor people don't buy Harleys. And, rich people are still rich.

[@kencarp57]

@@geraldnichols4965 But fewer and fewer well-heeled buyers are interested in Harleys these days. I'm one of the last of the traditional Harley rider generation who can afford a new Harley - but I will almost certainly never buy another one. Younger buyers want performance, and you can get outstanding performance for half the price of a Harley. I started out riding big fast Kawasakis back in the day, and I "graduated" to the Harley big twin touring bikes much later. My big inline 4 cylinder Kawis were only 900cc, half the displacement of my 100 CI (1800 cc) CVO Street Glide, but they were much faster and much more nimble than my Harley "Geezer Glide" will ever be, even though I have hopped up the engine considerably.

[@Jaynwhite_escape]

Not sure if they are selling full retail price. Just got my 2020 street glide special way below MSRP.

[@maxking9966]

I'm planning on buying a new street glide in January. May I ask how much you paid?

[@Jaynwhite_escape]

@@maxking9966, little over 27K OTD.

[@maxking9966]

@@Jaynwhite_escape Wow! I'll definitely buy one if I get a deal like that. Thanks for the info! Ride safe

[@mitchelldarnell5334]

I own a 2008 Ultra Classic and a 2011 CVO ROAD GLIDE ULTRA. The 08 first problem was the oil pump pressure jumping to over 50 psi sometime 60psi while on a long trip. Two different dealers didn't know what to do! I kept telling them it's the pressure relief valve. Their reply, that never happens! One checked the filter by cutting it open as I wanted see if any metal was inside it? None found, just ride it, it won't hurt.?? I was in Idaho, long way from Oklahoma. On the way home it would start missing and lose power. Scared I slowed down the cruise speed and it would start running smoothly again. I got home turned in to my dealer. He said there is a service bulliten about the oil pump relief valve failing in the closed position. Installed a new oil pump, checking ok. Problem it wasn't centered properly at installation when building the motor. The CVO lights started started burning out in the trunk. I decided to replace them when someone told me I had some tail light out. Well the first thing I noticed the bulb had a made in China stamp on it. The money I paid for the CVO should not have China made stuff any where on the bike!!! Later I discovered that the crank shafts are only trued to .003 thousands of a inch. No gear drive cams shafts unless you have the crank straightened. How the quality has been laid aside for the money. If there's anything that pizzes me off is stuff made in China!!! The cranks, bearings, everything's farmed out! Never had that kind of stuff with my Gold wing Honda. 1984 to 2008. New one had to high of seat height for my short legs, hence the change to Harley. Never buy another Harley until they bring back a quality MFG product like they had in the past.

[@cycletron]

Unfortunately it seems that more and more people are sharing stories like this.

[@brucesanborn7484]

I've never even come close to buying a new Harley and I own(69 yrs. Old) 7 now including a 44 year old shoveled that I paid $2000 back in the day and rode many miles without the dealership ! The real Harley enthusiasts will own and ride these dinosaurs with or without corporate !And parts😳 when I needed to replace a voltage regulator and checked with the HD dealer and was told $213 and I bought off the Internet for under $80 delivered to my door! Local dealership called 2 weeks later to see if I wanted their part I told them" you brick and motar stores aren't even in the ballpark price wise for what I purchased this part for on the net". I never told them how much I got the part for!Maranatha ,Greetings from Tampa Florida 😎

[@keshmo12]

Thing I see is that they haven't really changed much. Why buy a new bike when a 20 year old one looks exactly the same. Old guys don't buy all the "safety" features on the new bikes anyways. I'm not a huge Harley fan but I think the old ones look way cooler than the new ones.

[@kencarp57]

@@keshmo12 YEP! I love the look of my now "old-school" 2012 CVO Street Glide! I really hate the look of the new 2024 fairings on the SG and RG. They don't even look like Harleys anymore... they remind me of the Victory brand that Polaris shut down. They look way too modern to me, and don't have the distinctive look that Harleys used to have. Indians look much better than the new Harleys in my opinion. I really like the look of the Indian Springfield.

[@joeplem5329]

I spent enough money on my 2011 dyna street bob after adding the SE 110 tire shredder kit to it, no way am I "starting over" with a new model.

[@YoureBoring]

So you're not even going to acknowledge that HD's are over priced pieces of shit? Almost every other motorcycle manufacturers sales have sky rocketed.

[@cruiser1398]

Harley is well on the way to making Indian the #1 American made motorcycle! Well done!

[@sivvinod3187]

Bruh, Indian only has 3 good bikes in their lineup, stop white knighting for them or they'll never improve their bikes.

[@augustdrums1247]

@@sivvinod3187 Indian beats Harley with their entire line up. All their bikes are great not just 3, LOL

[@sivvinod3187]

@@augustdrums1247 yes, but compared to Japanese and European bikes, they're still flaming garbage.

[@augustdrums1247]

@@sivvinod3187 I’m not sure I agree with that statement. American made bikes hold there value very well. They sell extremely well overseas so if the imports are so great why is there a huge push for American made bikes? Plus the imports are a dime a dozen, mass production what’s so great about owning a Honda, Suzuki, etc? Indian and Harley have a great heritage and history. People want to own them.

[@augustdrums1247]

@@sivvinod3187 plus there is nothing that’s “flaming garbage” about my Indian. It’s a well made, well balanced cruiser. It rides like a dream and sounds beastly! It’s super aggressive! The rice burners have no soul or heritage.

[@metalworx4765]

I’ve noticed to date, that certain dealerships have incentives that are offered to some but not all buyers, you get a better rate on your loan if you fit in that category. This comes straight from an employee of HD.

[@cycletron]

I have heard of them sticking some people with crazy high interest rates too. It is always better to have your own financing option set up before going to a dealership.

[@rodzimmerman1979]

I read an article stating that In the 1970's over 1 million motorcycles were sold a year in just the United states and that now there are only between 150 and 200 thousand being sold in the U.S. This is not just a Harley problem, nearly all manufacturers have had lower numbers of bikes sold in recent years. We are in the middle of a huge pandemic, a bad economy for about 30% of the population, add to that low interest in owning a car or motorcycle by a growing number of young adults as a shift in how we move around in general is occurring. If one was to really dove into the numbers and future projections it is a rocky road for the near future. Harley is doing what they need to do to just hang on for now. Harley had to cancel sales of the Sportster in Europe because the EVO motor won't certify there. I can see the Sportster coming out with the liquid cooled motor in it soon. Once things get back to a more normal situation there is nothing stopping Harley from bringing new models with the new motor into production. Harley Davidson has a paid staff to crunch the numbers and try to forecast the future and right now they have hit the reset button and are getting ready for whatever the future brings. As far as Dealers are concerned My local dealers (two of them) have friendly staff's and parts people and act like they want my business when I show up there. I cannot speak about other places. As far as pricing is concerned, go look at an Indian, BMW, Honda, or other Premium motorcycle brands and compare apples to apples. They are not out of line as far as I can tell.

[@cycletron]

Thanks for your comments. To me the concerning thing relative to HD is their near elimination of marketing efforts (including many long standing sponsorships) which suggests that they may be implementing a "product harvesting" strategy and not just a short-term "belt tightening" strategy. Also other manufacturers have done very well this year by having a more diversified product line (not just in motorcycles but in ATVs and Side by Sides). There are good dealers out there. One of them is 100 miles from me; the closer ones to me, not so much.

[@gabrielcocco5188]

You're looking through 'rose colored glasses'. Harley Davidson corporate is reactive rather than proactive. As an example, the Euro emission standards have been out for years, yet HD just realizes their Sportsters EVOs won't pass emissions...? Customers have been asking for better suspension for decades...crickets. I could go on, but I think you see the pattern.

[@Lucoryphus_rex]

It's so sad because I have long been a Harley fan but soon they'll be Plymouth and Oldsmobile

[@mikeskidmore6754]

Not really Chrsler then Fiat bought what was Plymouth and General Motors bought Oldsmoblle out of Lansing MI but GM is still in business though always loosing market share to Japaense brands

[@geraldnichols4965]

There is one other thing. Harley bike owners bought the company. If they put it up for sale, half the Harley owners group would be there that day to buy it. Me included. If you think the day trip to Congress was scary, make a ruling against Harley and see hundreds of thousands of Harleys in DC. Uhhh...they've done before.

[@geraldnichols4965]

Wrong analogy. Plymouth and Oldsmobile weren't selling and duplicated other products. Harley us selling and has 40% of the U.S. market share. The E.U. sabotaged Harley sales in Europe by charging over 50% import fees. And, the current administration is doing exactly what a handful of world dictators want by helping the destruction of American business. Prove me wrong. I dare ya.

[@davidbrooks2119]

Definitely you can see this strategy in play at the HD dealerships. Last weekend I stopped at a dealer in Ga to ask about a used Ultra Limited. I stopped buying new bikes many years ago. He had a nice 2011 with about 11k miles. I’ve had several Ultras and wanted a used one to go with my BMW R1200GS. I said I would pay cash and could take the bike that day. The salesman had the sales manager give me the price since the bike had just been traded for that day. He wanted 15k for an 11k bike that he likely allowed the guy no more than 7-8k on trade. I declined and said adios. I expected some used bike price increases but I can’t see how that’s going to sell more bikes. Maximize profits on what you do sell if some sucker is willing to pay. I’m seeing a similar thing happening with Goldwing’ since Honda sent word about delaying 2021 GW’s. Previously heavily discounted left over 2018 and 2019 bikes are back to being advertised at MSRP or just under. I guess I will ride what I have until we get some normalcy back in this messed up world.

[@cycletron]

I am seeing crazy prices on even salvage bike sales these days. No bargains to be found for now.

[@adamlanglois563]

@@cycletron come to Canada. Fire sale on trade ins in the winter at anyplace that also sells snowmobiles

[@gerrymcdonald6194]

What do you suggest Harley should do to save the company and become a prosperous 'leader' in the industry again, if that is possible?

[@cycletron]

They need to be bought by a private company so they are not beholden to Wallstreet and short term focus. They were previously on a growth plan trying to appeal to younger riders in a variety of markets. Now they are just trying to make as much money for the short time that it can last and boost their stock prices so their executives can collect incentive pay. They also need to stop wasting money buying back their stock and put it instead into more research and development.

[@keitharvd]

Harley is a T-shirt company that happens to sell motorcycles

[@jimmydavis5055]

I really hope they don't go under. As much as I hate to admit, I just love the look of a Harley. Yeah, I'm paying more for outdated technology, but damn are they pretty. I was really hell-bent on buying a road king in a few years, but if they are going to force people to buy over MSRP for the privilege of buying their bike, I'm going to Indian or a metric cruiser. They don't have the freedom to pull that with Indian and other cruisers around. I'm one of the few Millennials who like cruisers. Maybe HD didn't give the all roads a chance. That's the issue with having stockholders. Corporate wants to make them happy rather than create a good product and treating their employees properly. It does get frustrating when older HD riders get pissy because HD does something politically correct. Don't get me wrong, I'm no social justice warrior, but the times are changing. It would be smart for HD to just stay out of politics and just create a solid lineup like Triumph has.

[@kencarp57]

If I was young like you, i would seriously consider Indian over Harley - and I've owned Harleys for a long time. I know a number of Indian riders, and they never do anything to their bikes other than ride them. Indians are very reliable bikes.

[@doulos77]

I bought my one and only HD several years ago. I am planning on it being my last bike as times are about to get really hard for folks in America.

[@lawrencebass4965]

They cost too much! Need to lower the prices. :(

[@jlpeders]

This is exactly what HDs issue is. I love HD and own a 2019 Street Glide. However, there is no reason why this bike should be 28K dollars. In addition, it's $500 dollars for routine maintenance. Absolutely ridiculous! How many of us HD riders have extended warranties? If you're paying 28K for a bike, it should have very little warranty issues. All very disappointing.

[@snakebite6511]

@@jlpeders You knew this in advance yet you bought one anyway?

[@geraldnichols4965]

BS. Harley Davidson Iron 1200, $9999 Yamaha Tenerre 700. $9999 Yamaha WR450 $9999 Honda Fury 1319cc $10599 Honda Rebel 1100 $9299 Which one sells the most? Harley Which one has warranteed performance enhancements? Harley Which model has been built for decades? Harley Sportsters

[@HiveMind2024]

I didn't know how bad it was until I rode other bikes I'll take a BMW or Honda anyday

[@eduardopereira5245]

I had to Harleys and now i own an Indian. Problem with HD? Too many models, overpriced and oversized dealers. With the economy the way it is Harley needs to shrink, concentrate in the models who sells better and dont waste time, money and resources in other kind of bikes like the Bronx or the Pan American, believe me, they will fail. Brands like KTM, Triumph, BMW won that race long time ago... and a motorcycle company should be managed by someone who rides a motorbike... and speakes and listen other bikers... probably would learn something...

[@ianhoodless4903]

one of the more sensible comments on here.

[@Dinoxt12]

Simple formula...for any manufacturer...When People do not have the $$$ and or the Credit to purchase any type of product from any type of manufacturer...how good is your Business with a lot the population near or in poverty. People are there bread & butter but they'll treat as you are not ...Go Figure.

[@HiveMind2024]

I haven't ridden my Harley for years tired of trying to make it comfortable safe better handling I have put too much money into it it still sucks

[@johnthomas2485]

They screwed up when they canceled the Buell 1125

[@geraldnichols4965]

Harley has yet to cancel something that sold and was sustainable. Go start a business and see for yourself.

[@natalierivers5824]

I can't wait for HD to go out of biz. It will make my parts and motorcycles more valuable and will keep the aftermarket healthy.

[@cycletron]

That may happen in a few years I suspect.

[@natalierivers5824]

No it's not likely that HD will ever actually go completely tits up because the brand name is just too valuable. But I don't understand why continuous growth is the only way for a business to survive. What's wrong with scaling down and just catering to the 100,000 or so core customers and their descendants who actually like the traditional, air cooled, pushrod actuated, V-twins for what they are and don't want a generic motorcycle with only HD badging and some high tech whizbang features being the only distinguishing characteristics from any other motorcycle in the marketplace.

[@DrT1250]

People think my BMW R1250RT is expensive until I tell them what similarly equipped Harley costs. However, if you want comparable power, you have to put a crate engine in it. I'm not a Harley guy, but I hate seeing what's happening with Harley. Losing such a historic motorcycle company is not good for any of us.

[@cycletron]

I agree with you completely. I still hope the will get it together but I am not hopeful with the current management.

[@Eng2BCapt]

November 23, 2020 and still the 2021 line up is not out. Harley needs to roll over and give up.

[@cycletron]

They are supposed to announce the 2021 bikes in January and they probably won't show up in dealerships in March; 7 months past when they normally would have come out in late August.

[@Eng2BCapt]

@@cycletron doesn’t bother me. I own an Indian. I like Harleys but I refuse to own one. For all the reasons named. I feel in a 5 years they will be owned by a major Asian company

[@cliffordwright9824]

Nice video, My 06 Harley Davidson deluxe has the old fashion look that turns heads every time I take it out, maybe they should mix a little of that to the new bikes,

[@cycletron]

Yes that is a great style. I would like to see HD bring the Springer back.

[@richs7362]

Yep when you can go into a Harley dealer and ride a new bike home was when they became just another motorcycle. I remember when a local dealer at a event was giving away a place on the waiting list as a raffle prize! They flooded the market and jacked up the prices, not a good combination!

[@cycletron]

I hear they are trying to cut production and get back to the old ways. The problem now is you don't have nearly the same number of people wanting to buy as you did 20 years ago.

[@richs7362]

@@cycletron yep!

[@xfactor4598]

I only ever owned one Harley, a Sportster 883 bought new. Ran it until I blew the motor. Been there done that have the mug and shirts. Good times indeed.

[@alanclague8186]

I like that they're down sizing. Harley, has been pumping out,way to many bikes over the years, to the point of, the secondary market, is over flooded.

[@dalecarpenter8828]

When the market is flooded the price falls ! Not so for greedy anti Americans welfare case like harley ! What the market will bare and what the market price is not the price you pulled out your greedy hinnie ! They were on welfare so long they lost their competitive sense ! They think they are to good to compete ! That's what people think that live in mommy's basement think !

[@davidgourdie3691]

Reminds me of recessionist economics.ie cutting production,loss of employees(Shop floor first),not able to supply parts,slashing advertising.Then when the economic conditions improve,not able to capitalize.No doubt Zeitz will tasked with producing top dollar for shareholders,but he's doing it artificially and the piper will still keep coming.If he's not a rider,he will never get it,therefore no vested interest in HD to survive.

[@michaelelliott435]

“They do not listen..” To Americans. just profit which is declining but they’ll just keep going down that road... then get rid of the business people put bike riders in

[@Sgtyork488]

Nice information..for me the local dealer is hmmmm ok..but they will say..carburetors are to old..they also indicate older bikes are not welcome in our shop...I do all my maintenance. 96 softail...its an attitude not good ...I. don't like it..its no wonder people are not buying them...I'm also getting older but I'm in outstanding condition..but unfortunately many older people are not..unless they get back to their history..and treat all Harleys the same they will not be able to survive..someone will buy them..if I had the money I would

[@charlescastell4638]

Just found this video... answered a few questions for me. This past August [2020] I bought a 2018 Sport Glide, and ended up paying close to 2020 retail price for a bike that had5,278 miles and was 2 years old. I wanted the bike so bad I could taste it, but it's going to be a long time before I ever decide to buy another used bike from a dealer. There can't be too many people like me who will pony up out of sheer desire... sad.

[@cycletron]

Enjoy your new bike! I wouldn't have any buyer's remorse as there were no bargains to be had last year and I think they same will be true this year.

[@austin2267]

Called Harley the other day for a clutch break perch mount, the call waiting voiceover on the phone for the parts department said they stock everything and have thousands of parts in stock. Once they answered the guy said they would have to order it and it would take 2 weeks to get. I hung up on Temecula Harley. Amazon had the part to me in a day and half. Next bike will be and Indian, more bang for the buck.

[@michaelelliott435]

Premium... that’s what I’m talking about!! Just make a motorcycle everyone can own... you charge no less than 500 $ every time we bring them in...

[@Jason-rb1tl]

The reason their stocks go up when sales are going down is stock buybacks. If they take available stocks off of the market, the remaining shares will be valued more highly.

[@cycletron]

You are correct. It is a way to also boost the compensation of their executives.

[@verlinswarey507]

Pretty good video for a channel with 415 subscribers! One question-the CEO who left Harley earlier this year(I forget his name)...why did he leave? Didn’t they like his strategy? I thought it seemed just about perfect! (I’m not a Harley guy by the way!)

[@cycletron]

Thank you very much! I got started at the end of July but have had some of these ideas rattling around my head for awhile! I think the HD board decided to give up on the long-term growth strategy with Levatich and pushed him out (they reportedly gave him $1,000,000 to hit the bricks). Now they seem to be like a struggling sailing ship that is throwing food overboard to lighten the load instead of just ballast.

[@geraldnichols4965]

@@cycletron Excelt they're selling the crap out of Harleys. It doesn't exactly follow you gloom and doom. I'm just curious, is China paying you to say bad things about Harley? Because what I've researched on what you claim so far is bogus.

[@ronanjones4189]

@@geraldnichols4965 根据我广泛研究收集的信息，您是精神残疾者。

[@metcruza5536]

Thanks for the vids man...well done.. HD shit where do you start. I've got my Deluxe and maybe my last new HD because they'll be priced out of reach. They don't want dudes like me they want RUBs. Heaps of young guys are buying Jao bikes because they're not double digit bikes.....HD GREED...poor option. A smart CEO would have looked at EU and the emission shit isn't new they should have reworked the Evo so it was EU sweet.. HD won't die....plenty of 2nd hand bargains after the RUBs are sick of riding 1 mile to their vegan cafe

[@cycletron]

Thanks a lot. I appreciate it. Kind of reminds me of what these kids are doing with engine swaps and other restorations on 50 year old cars that they learned how to do watching you tube!

[@metcruza5536]

@@cycletron Bro HD lost its soul I reckon. I'm filthy on dumping the Deluxe cause that & the 48 are like iconic HD. Young guys starting out don't want a 650 pound bike ..not that theyve got the $$$ for a new HD. Street was in track but staying needed to be more HD or cafe racer...it was just bland Oh well some Chinese or Korean mob will jump when the company needs rescuing.

[@dougfisher1885]

If Harley Davidson lived thru the amf days it will survive this its all in leadership and management get the right people not already rich people

[@robertallen5422]

Harley is going to declare bankruptcy under Biden. What happened to the BIG move to Thailand?

[@Sodiumfreeriding]

I would probably still be riding Harley if I lived in Tulsa, when I moved to Houston the dealerships are what killed my love for harley. I love the road glide, but the challenger stole my heart. Although 3 years ago I was a “Harley or nothing guy” so I wouldn’t have even looked at indian. Weird how things work out. I do wish Harley the best, love the fact we have two American made Motorcycle’s

[@grendelprime166]

I love that Challenger. But I wanted to mod the hell out of a RoadGlide and went that way. Bye bye money!

[@Sodiumfreeriding]

@@grendelprime166 oh hell yeah, I have been down that road! I’m more of a “stage one and done” guy now. Still waiting for a good tune for the challenger, but for a stock bike, I cannot complain at all. Thanks for watching, hoping I can do some upgrade videos one day. COME ON INDIAN hahah

[@jeffsmith9305]

by reducing promos and other discounts, it drives up the unit contribution - both from (marketing) and (discounts) make means that the per unit contribution goes up - it aint pretty - and without attracting new a new, younger, consumer group, they may as well just make trikes

[@RanGer-498]

My local harley davidson dealer is great but in other states they seemed annoyed you even walked in , sadly forcthe price you seem to get more bang for your buck from India..more dealers are good but what good is it if the next dealer is only 20 or 30 miles away...its pointless.

[@normanheggstrom9854]

Good video. Test drove the Livewire back in 2014. We test drivers were given a survey to fill out after the ride. I loved the bike, but it was too small for me (about the size as a 600cc sportbike). The last question (?) was what HD should be asking for this bike. I put $12,000 to $15,000 range (might have the price range wrong, but it's close) saying that this price range could attract new riders and riders that commuted daily to work. So HD took all this information from all the test riders in 2014 and beyond and decided that $30,000 would be a great MSRP. Really? Who in their right mind thought that this bike would sell at this price? I feel that HD and it's "management" purposely sabotaged this bike knowing it would not sell. Not sure if the new CEO is a motorcycle guy or not, but it would not make much business sense keeping this bike in production unless the MSRP dropped dramatically.

[@cycletron]

The new CEO claims to be a motorcycle guy but I don't think I believe it. I almost think the Livewire at that price as just for show and they were not serious about getting meaningful sales numbers.

[@michaelgarners9780]

The bike now runs $16-22k depending on the model. That's MSRP. Who knows the price after taxes and fees.

[@lot2196]

One thing never brought up is some people think the bad-boy, black t-shirt, goatee, bandana look is just silly.

[@geraldnichols4965]

Since you are addressing me, I will reply. Bad boys are about 1% of Harley riders. You have a higher percentage of criminals in your neighborhood. I have never been charge with any felony. I had a car accident once. The bandana is to keep your neck warm in the cold and keep wasps and other angry bugs, from hitting and then stinging you. Which happened to me when I didn't wear it. I also got hit on my bear neck with a stone from the road. They are also used to cover your head under tge helmet to absorb sweat instead of it going into your helmet where it is harder to clean. Now you know. I'll have to read the rest of your comment.

[@geraldnichols4965]

I've never had a goatee. I worked in the military for 21 years. Hint: a lot of those Harley riders are prior military. I worked in coordination with high levels for another 20 years. I can write resumes for over 50 occupations. Programming counts as 1. If I had died before I went to Britain, A-10s would not have been involved in any conflict. I promised a neighbor I would watch over his shop when he got out. I did. As a result, the planes worked and the people trained. I also changed Russian strategy from ready to attack to information they thought they knew was not correct and they held back. Not me, but a B-52 commander stopped WWIII. I guess I'm saying is that Harley riders you give no respect for may have saved or will save your life and everyone on the planet's life. And, he may just be using a Harley to cope with all of crap they get from civilians when he literally saved your ass many times over. I see combat vet vests on every group ride I've been on. Now you know.

[@johnmoll8033]

Harley Davidson is now the Dylan Mulvaney face on Bud Lite cans!! Harley has gone WOKE. What were they thinking?? 😂😂

[@fathertimencUSA]

They are expensive and they purposely make them low horse power so you have to spend more money to get kits to give them more power and they wonder why people are buying foreign bikes that cost half of what they do and have better reliability.

[@geraldnichols4965]

Uhhhh...Honda intentionally make most of their bikes with low horsepower an heavy weight. The current Gold Wing is 125 hp, a five speed transmission, and weighs over 800 lbs, and a six cylinder 1833cc engine. But, some will do 1 million miles. Well, so do some touring Harleys. And at $32,000, that Gold Wing isn't cheap either. And that us the cheap bike. A Superleggera V4 us $100,000. Sorry guy, you're going to have to find something else to whine about. This myth is busted.

[@fathertimencUSA]

@@geraldnichols4965 They still have more hp than a Harley. I have a M109R which have more power than their 114 for half the price.So you go whine somewhere else.

[@esfahan1961]

Harley should start applying the same recipe as automobiles did: keep different key platforms (dynas, softails, cruisers) but make customisation standard between these. Doesn’t make any sense to have parts for a 2008 Deluxe incompatible with a 2018 Deluxe! Slashing the number of parts per line of bikes would already reduce costs while improving parts’ availability. I had a BMW roadster and could get replacement parts within 48 hours whereas it could take up to 3 months to get some Harley ones: simply unacceptable!

[@take5th]

They got some of my money in 1998. Still have bike. It’s nearly unrideable and certainly unsellable. Looks good tho.

[@gghostrrider]

Not to mention the problems with the M8: that probably hurt sales most.

[@cycletron]

You are right about that.

[@bking9226]

This is what happen's when you done have Biker's running the show just bean counter's profit, profit profit and it's a shame what they are doing to this once great icon !!!( Been on one for 42 yr's)

[@geraldnichols4965]

Uhhh...Harley owners bought Harley from AMF years ago and have not sold it to anyone else. The new CEO is an avid Harley owner abd has been for years. Nice try.

[@turbosure7873]

There are a lot of really nice low mileage Harleys on the secondary market. Since Harley is big on tradition the older bikes look similar to the new bikes so save money and skip the depreciation. The new bikes are still priced for the customers that have, for the most part, moved on. The white collar, money to burn customers have moved on or aged out. The customers that made the tradition they lean on so heavily cannot afford most of the new models and going in hock for 72 months (or longer) just doesn’t make sense. They forgot where they came from, it will be interesting to see where they are going.

[@metcruza5536]

You got it bro in everything you just wrote. Lots of dudes buy a HD find em too heavy or whatever and sell em. I've flipped a few Harley's over the years but I'm no way the buyer they want....they want the real high income dudes Next bike might be a Vulcan....at least it's a bit like my Deluxe.

[@mauserwinchester]

Totally agree, Harley want to fail, just because you can sell running shoes doesnt mean you can sell bikes, they have their reasons, but we will never know, Messrs Harley and Davidson must be spinning in their graves at the mess their company has become, if I was a stockholder, I would want a vote of no confidence in management. On a happier note, someone will buy them out and make the company a success again, and introduce the new bikes that will attract new customers, and at competitive prices.

[@cycletron]

If Indian and Triumph can rise from the ashes so can Harley. It just appears that they will have to bottom out before this can happen.

[@ausforce1]

The former CEO had the paved a way forward for HD. All they needed to do was have the balls to follow through.. I m a cash buyer who was waiting for the Bronx...I'm buying a triumph now, HD is a zombie company at this point it's already dead.

[@geraldnichols4965]

Have you ever been to England? One strike and you won't see a Triumph part for 6 months. I lived in England for 3 years. Other than a Rolls Royse, the mini was the most practical car in England. It was reliable, the parts were cheap, you could fix it yourself, and if you weren't mechanically oriented, service was cheap. I was in the USAF and noone bought Triumph crap. Yes, it was 40 years ago. But, I'm not seeing a huge increase. At that time, BMWs and August were the crap car if Germany. Mercedes were basically German Chevies. Vauxhall was owned by GM. It wasn't as good as a mini and a lot pricier. I wish you luck. But, have you looked at Triumph reliability? It is a good performing and looking bike. I'm hopeful my old knowledge of Triumph is outdated.

[@ausforce1]

@@geraldnichols4965 yeah mate your knowledge of Triumph is way out dated, not to mention your knowledge on English politics 😂. They crushed the unions in the early 90's, triumph is owned by different people and is a global powerhouse of Motorcycles.

[@geraldnichols4965]

@@ausforce1 OK. Thanks for the update. I looked up Triumph worldwide sales which is over 50K units. That's awesome since Honda is at 20K and Yamaha at 10K! They've come a long way. Unless I got the wrong site though Harley Davidson is at 160K. Mostly in the U.S. But, still outrageous numbers. Statista Harley-Davidson's worldwide motorcycle retail sales between FY 2017 and FY 2020, by country or region(in units) tablecolumn chart U.S.CanadaEurope, Middle East, Africa (EMEA)Asia-PacificLatin America2017147,97210,08144,93530,3489,4522018132,8689,69046,60228,72410,1672019125,9608,94644,08629,5139,7682020103,6506,47736,90627,2205,995 Showing entries 1 to 4 (4 entries in total)

[@vincentmcclain9307]

Mid September share price was 21.00 closed today at 41. The dealers are responsible for there own demise.Went to five dealers to purchase my current 2020 RoadGlide S the bike is awesome .My 6th Harley, went to sales guys I had done prior business...nothing it was not them it was the dealer management.Got my bike, a fair trade , a discount on my new bike and a discount on parts. Agreed, leaving racing is bad business, separated from Vance And Hines another mistake For this Harley owner 6 Harley’s 5 Vance and Hines exhaust systems and they were a winning race team combo. Harley’s history and growth is based on racing.Board Track racing, Jack pine hill climbs to name a couple were what built not only Harley’s brand but it’s community. They are one in the same. Buy a metric cruiser drive it off the floor and see what the resale price is or look in the NADA book before you buy and tell me H-D done this argument is as old as the company.

[@alank808]

Harley only supported 1 board track race. all the other races were run by privateers riding harleys. Harley deemed bd track racing a murder sport and refused to support. Check the market for Harleys and you will find they have little of the value you pd for a new one. Used Mrkt. is tremendous for used bikes. Harley name is not going out of business as it is iconic. Some comp. will buy and run it. Hopefully they will somewhat return to the type of brand we all knew. Gay pirate marketing has run it``s course one would only hope.

[@vincentmcclain9307]

@@alank808 I didn’t know the brief history with Harley Davidson sponsoring board track racing however the comment about the race community and what it did for PR moving sales forward cannot be disputed Harley Davidson drag racing was a championship race combination that destroyed metric powered drag bikes especially in pro stock which had a specific engineering trickle down to the production bikes we have today not that long ago saying 10 years ago you could buy a destroyer and with some classes and extra paperwork involved the average guy on the street was drag racing I knew a guy who campaigned one of those bikes out of a Wisconsin dealership when the dealerships were still family involved. This is a press quote I copied Vance & Hines will continue its racing tradition in 2021 with sponsored riders in a variety of racing series, and be the sole distributor for the sole licensee, manufacturer and seller of Harley-Davidson XG750R Production Twin motorcycles and Harley-Davidson XG750R Super Twin motorcycles. This racing variant of the Harley-Davidson Street 750 was the motorcycle that won the AFT Production Twins championship in 2020. I thought Harley would’ve learned after canceling it’s partnership with Buell .It is apparent to this enthusiast that ending the relationship with Vance and Hines was a win for Vance and Hines.

[@alank808]

@@vincentmcclain9307 I fully agree with the support of racing and the development of a product. The auto industry, air craft industry, and marine ind. reflects the benefits. The info on bd track racing was not meant to undermine you. Just stating HD decided not to play as the death of one of their riders in the first and only race they participated in.

[@vincentmcclain9307]

@@alank808 thank you.As I said I did not know about Harley’s exit from board track racing I have been to the H-D museum in Milwaukee at least ten times the one permanent hallmark exhibit is Harley’s impact on Board Track racing. A scale board track loop with well placed board track racers . Several original restored racers you would think H-D was all in on early track racing.Figures a corporation would then bale on a activity deemed dangerous to your health yet sell you one to participate. Must have been following the Philip Morris business model

[@artmchugh5644]

My favorite shirt reads " THE BEST THING IN THE HARLEY SHOP WINDOW IS THE REFLECTION OF MY DUCATI " !!!!! would never ride one of those chrome air compressors!!!😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@cycletron]

🤣🤣

[@davidgiles5030]

Love the comments about the Harley dealers and rudeness. I have a metric dealer near me and have owned several bikes that they sell. I've been treated badly so many times there that I travel an additional 75 km's to their competition. I talk with my money.

[@randyzimmer9521]

Don't you think that all motorcycle sales are down, ATV's dirt bikes a maybe other recreational vehicles are taken there place , besides after the cost of rent, car,student loans and poor wages who has disposable cash and income . Got my 2013 Road King and unless I wreck it or its stollen it's probably my last bike and for sure would buy used.

[@cycletron]

I think overall sales for bikes are down, but HD sales are down more as they are loosing market share to competitors. Ironically, many bike models (I am think Ducati, Kawasaki, Triumph, Indian, Honda and Yamaha) are better than ever with more tech, performance and reliability that could even be dreamt of a few years ago.

[@Ragnar215]

Yea some are ok most seem like you are bothering them when you ask an question

[@twistedthrottle8513]

first thing they should do is remove canbus faults from leds its a joke engine check light from a blinker install is crazy as a new owner very disappointed in the electronics and faults , bikes 3 weeks old full of fault codes ,

[@johncerro7486]

Harley-Davidson Milwaukee Eight has engine problems

[@brianmorton3475]

Is it a harvest strategy or a hedgehog strategy? Maybe HD is focusing on what they do better than anyone else - big iconic American motorcycles. I think it’s too soon to tell. If no R&D on the pushrod V twin over the next 3 years then you may be right. But aren’t they still spending R&D on the big twin?

[@cycletron]

Fair point. I think the reduction/elimination of marketing efforts is the red flag. The choice of words they used to describe the current changes "Rewire" and the upcoming 5 year plan "Hardware" suggest to me that these recent decisions will be perpetuated. Time will tell.

[@scrogfpv7443]

I just bought an indian pursuit last friday. Way better out of the box than a road glide.

[@cycletron]

Cool bike. Enjoy your new Pursuit!

[@jamestorregrossa3041]

I’m definitely not an economist but I will put my 2cents in I think Harley Davidson‘s problem is the absolute terrible experience the consumer has when doing business with them at their dealership. I’ve been riding for over 28 years, I dread when I have to walk in the dealerships here in St. Louis, they are ruthless and typically dishonest.Change the experience at the dealerships and I do believe Business will be better

[@cycletron]

I completely agree. Have you ever done business at a dealer and receive a survey from HD asking about the experience? I never have which tells me they don't care. They would rather pay Aquaman and OB1 Kenobi money to be "brand ambassadors". LOL.

[@jamestorregrossa3041]

@@cycletron Great point brother. I’ve only purchased one new Harley Davidson and that was in the early 90s when I could not find a used one. I’ve become proficient at buying them secondhand.

[@richardjohnson2965]

I've had Hondas, kawasakis, and a couple of Harley's over the years. Sold my last bike two years ago ( Harley), but if I buy another, I think I'll go back to Honda , Kawasaki, or a Yammie. Better performance, better service, better price.

[@edwardbella3871]

HD is going to decline for the next 5 years. They will have to restructure the company.It is to bad that their prices are unreasonable.They have to be able to show leadership and not follow.

[@robertkollath8929]

Interest, educational, what does this mean, if I am interested in a road king? Great video, i subscribed

[@cycletron]

I would say if you like a Road King, go for it. If you have a bit of time before you buy, I think there is going to be a lot of used ones available just due to the aging demographic. I talked to a local HD dealer recently who said that HD is trying to go back to limited bike deliveries to the dealers so that they will take orders and have the bike delivered weeks later. I also wouldn't but it past them to raise prices on new bikes for next year at 10 percent or more. If you live in a cold climate location like I do, the winter could be a great time to get a new bike if you can find a dealer with decent inventory. Also thanks for the Sub! You might also want to check out my video on buying a HD bike. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKu7h4J7d9hqd5Y

[@48retrop]

The MOCO is definitely in the decline stage. I noticed today that the percent of stock owned by management is a mere .86%. Even their own management team is gun shy about buying stock because they know they are not likely to survive in the long run. Several of their top management team also have recently abandoned ship. They can see the handwriting on the wall. The question is, at what price (how low) does the stock price have to go before someone makes a run at them?

[@adamlanglois563]

The old carb models bought privately that have already "paid the Harley tax" are often a good deal. Go to a BMW dealer and see a used HD at a good price 😉

[@cliffordwright9824]

I just wonder if Harley Davidson bike's were cheaper would they still get the same respect as they do now ?? I rate Harley Davidson #1 and it seems that if people like it they will buy it no matter the cost, so im guessing the design and looks has a lot to do with the sales,

[@cycletron]

They definitely want to be a premium brand. Their cheapest bike is an 883 Iron which is $9,500 in black and no ABS. They also have cut production further driving up the costs of new and used bikes.

[@nbrider7235]

HD just yanked the dealership license from four of the six dealerships they had in the Maritime Provinces of Canada (the Maritime Provinces are: New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward). The only dealerships left are in Moncton, NB and Halifax, NS. I'm a long time HD fan and still own my '03 Nighttrain and '09 Buell Ulysses, I'm most disappointed about the cancellation of the Bronx as I was really looking forward to that bike. One can't help but think that had HD kept Buell they would be much more prepared to be competitive in today's motorcycle marketplace where the trend has shifted to Adventure and Naked bikes as opposed to cruisers that were all the rage in the Sons of Anarchy/ Orange County Choppers era of the early to mid 2000s.

[@cycletron]

They had many chances to make better decisions along the way. Remember they made a billion dollars profit in 2006. Could they have made investments in developing bikes and promoting ridership in a meaningful way? Yes the could have but they did not. Now here we are.

[@alancrane4693]

Billion dollar profit 2006, 2008 global banks economy crashed globally never recovered now global pandemic here we are. Harley Davidson in a very different difficult position likes of Japanese motorcycle manufacturers have their cars outboard engines musical instruments products as well but their motorcycle sales are down being propped up with Honda civic suzuki swift yamaha studios. Harley Davidson how dare they have a clothing range ffks, tell you what thank god they do because if it helps harley Davidson to keep manufacturing AWSOME motorcycles then resort to production of another four wheel box on the road, I swear my allegiance to the flag of Harley Davidson motorcycles.

[@elgrandisimojoe]

the problem for HD its their customers. HD needs to put them to pasture in order to rise.

[@cycletron]

They won't let them go until they spend their last motorcycle dollar.

[@Evirthewarrior]

I think part of the problem is that many people keep repeating over and over that "Harley's are overpriced". So less people want to buy them. Even Harley owners, but when you look at the apples to apples comparisons for what you get, other companies are just as expensive, if not more for lower quality stuff in many cases. Lets take the Kawasaki Vulcan Voyager, this is a popular go to for many "Harley's are overpriced" people, look at what you get brand new in 2020, you get the exact same motorcycle from 2009, a nice LCD display radio with the same rubber buttons, super thin plastic all around and a 1700cc engine The OEM accessories are similarly priced (if you can find them). Then the resale value is trash on them. Stop saying Harley's are overpriced, start doing actual comparisons between the prices of apples to apples motorcycles. Don't compare a 2020 819cc Suzuki Boulevard(of any type) to a 2020 softail(of any type) for example. It is not in any way shape or form apples to apples. If you do, say "it only has an 819 cc motor in it". But I see all kinds of absurd comparisons online 1000cc sport bikes to Street Glides, Limited CVOs to Honda Rebels and all everything and everything between. There is no "Harley tax" on anything other than the clothing, that is mostly over priced. But parts and motorcycles are priced the same as others for what you get.

[@mattshaggs2931]

But they ARE expensive because they are still more expensive to buy in the first place...the example being that the Road Glide Standard is $6k more than the Vaquero for 2020 based on MSRP...and they have the same style radio at that point. (No GPS/touchscreen) You can argue the subjective topics all day long...but if someone wants a bike for a decade then wants to maybe sell, it ends up evening out even though the Kawasaki nose dives hard at first. The resale value between a 2011 RG and a 2011 Vaquero is $2k LESS than the MSRP difference between them this year according to KBB. Moral of the financial story, you want to trade a bike in every year to get a new one and be in permadebt making motorcycle payments, buy the Harley. You want to buy a bike to pay off and ride for a long time, it seems to not really matter. Oh, and yeah, you compare the Voyager vs. the RG Ultra...the MSRP difference this year is over $10k...that's a $200 a month difference between them based on 60 months at 4%. The Kawasaki is good for someone that can't want to spend $521 a month on a motorcycle but COULD spend only $326...and in 9 years based on KBB, the difference in resale will only be $4k. Are the same bike? Well, not exactly...but that doesn't matter when the more expensive bike isn't even in your budget. So, buy used right? According to KBB, a 2016 RGU has the same retail price as a 2020 Voyager. The Voyager at that point is within 4 lbft and 8hp of the 103 from that year based on stock dyno reports. Now the other difference...the Harley is going to have 20k+ on it with no warranty (about the time to be checking the cam tensioners) while the Voyager has a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty with 0 miles on it. Let's also face that financing APR is usually HIGHER on used bikes...so that comes into play. Now, the radio. While the 2016 Harley would have GPS touch screen, that thing is junk. It's slow and cumbersome to use and you'd probably be swapping it out anyway...another cost to factor in. So...THAT is why from a financial standpoint it can still make sense to not buy a Harley. I personally see more VALUE in buying the brand new Voyager for the same price as a used Harley because I don't trade my bikes in all the time and the warranty with 0 miles is great. Looks/heritage/brand name is something else...but Harley doesn't have that magic for me. I rode Honda for years and then bought a new Indian Chieftain DH off the showroom floor for $4k less than the SG that year...and I would have "lost" the same amount of money up until now on both of them by resale value. But even then, I didn't buy the bike for resale value...I bought it to ride because I personally thought it was the better bike...so get what you want and ride the hell out of it.

[@cycletron]

I agree with you. Harley's have very good fit and finish (their paint is second to none). I think people are looking for a few more features for the money (like LED headlights on the S.G.s) and they don't offer much selection for new riders looking to get much bike for under $10,000.

[@Evirthewarrior]

​@@mattshaggs2931 Walk up to a Kawasaki Vulcan Voyager, touch it, really look at it, if you think that is the same quality, you are deluding yourself, to justify a purchase. Also, this is a road glide inner fairing and infotainment i1.wp.com/motorsactu.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/20_FLTRK_KF6_001.jpg?ssl=1 This is the Vulcan Voyager www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery/Kawasaki%20Vulcan%201700%20Voyager%2015%20%201.jpg They are not anywhere close to the same. If you want a touring motorcycle comparably priced to the Vulcan Voyager, buy an Electra glide standard, then install an aftermarket radio and a cheap after market tour pack and bracket. It will be a better motorcycle all around. The best part is you can get the RDRS system on the Electra Glide Standard. That is really worth it comparatively. If you can get one, get a Police Electra glide it comes with the 114 motor and RDRS standard. They are for sale brand new if you look for one.

[@mattshaggs2931]

@@Evirthewarrior I never said it was the same "quality"...but I'll only Harley is better on fit/finish/paint. On the other hand, reliability amidst all systems on the Kawasaki will be practically twice as good as Harley based on CR reports (15% vs 26% of warranty claim in first 4 years at only 3,800 miles a year.) I have looked at it before...but again, $10,000 dollars isn't chump change and that was my entire point in case you missed it.

[@Evirthewarrior]

I also wanted to post prices for similar motorcycles according to the websites of the manufactures. Indian Challenger $22,999 Yamaha Star Eluder $22,499 Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Vaquaro $16,799+ $410 destination charge Honda Gold Wing $23,800 +450 destination charge BMW K 1600 B $23,195 Harley-Davidson Street Glide $21,999 Harley-Davidson Road Glide $21,699 Harley-Davidson Electra Glide $18,999

[@robbyclark6915]

So what’s the end game here? Harley Davidson is no more and us Harley owners have bikes no one cares about? Or we have bikes you can’t buy anymore and everybody wants one? It’s just a shame to watch Harley Davidson go down the drain and possibly be no more. Maybe I should’ve bought the Indian?

[@angrydinosaur8plus9]

Probably the first one

[@mikeskidmore6754]

General Motors sold 282,500 Camaros in 1979. That just one Model GM car.. so selling 250,000 Motorcycles per year is not a lot.. The most Popular motorcycle inthe World is the Honda Cub of which of 300 Million units have been sold.. A Fool and their money soon go their seperate ways.. HD did a great job of marketing convincing Millions that they really wanted a crappy handling neavy overpriced Motorcycle . They still have the Blue Prints for 2009 Buels they should manufactuer a few of them ..

[@garygosselin4918]

Mike Skidmore shut up!

[@mikeskidmore6754]

@@garygosselin4918 It's so easy to Trigger HD Fan Boys ..

[@garygosselin4918]

@@mikeskidmore6754 I'm a fan of many kinds of motorcycles. I just like trolling trolls. Lol!🖕

[@mikeskidmore6754]

@@garygosselin4918 I don't like Bullies and HD has been a Bully Company for decades.. Kind of funny I worked in a motorcycle shop when I was 16 years old that Specilized in British bikes. so I got my Education in 1976.. British bikes got wiped out by Japanese bikes.. HD has been near Bankrupcy two or more times.. but HD has convinced Millions that their crap cruisers are Cool.. People are Brainwashed to think HD is cool and buy them thanks to peer pressure.. I simply enjoy more modern perfance bikes that have good handling more performance a re more relaible and pasrts cost far less for like when I hit a deer with my Yamaha ..

[@garygosselin4918]

@@mikeskidmore6754 you are exactly the reason why some Harley people like me don't wave or have anything to do with people like you. And you cry we don't wave.lol! Doesn't matter how nice we are to you people you still spend your time on Harley videos trying to educate everyone what junk they are and what a joke Harley riders are. It's time to go back to really fighting about motorcycles! I liked it better when we all really hated each other! Two wheels is all that matters is becoming bull shit with people like you. Keep it Skidmore troll!

[@robertpolkamp]

Time to get the Desert Eagle out for a merciful kill shot into the engine case of Harley.

[@petermoscardo4369]

I think everyone is missing the mark with regards to decline in Harley Sales, my thought is from observation, it seems a lot of people own a Harley of all ages and models and because they are a classic they stay around for years an old harley still turns heads, we have a saturation point in traditional markets. Thats my thoughts.

[@cycletron]

I agree a lot of people like HD, it is an iconic brand. A few years ago the median age of a Harley buyer was in their early 50's as reported by HD. Now people think it is around 55 years old but HD won't publish that information anymore. The other interesting thing is that the classic, air cooled engine will not likely meet emission standards driven by regulations in Europe and in California for new bikes in the near future. The old bikes will be grandfathered in so they will likely stay around although it may spell trouble for new bike sales later.

[@FlamesAt1000ft]

This is really trying,..depressing & raises so much concern as I’m soon to be a customer of HD. I want my dream bike ,..a Night Rod VRod! ..and I’m well aware it has long been discontinued!,..but want one anyway because I’m well into my “Senior Years” and no longer have the will nor vibes to keep riding my 22yrs old Sport Bike crotch rocket!! So,..like other elders before me I’m choosing to go Sports Cruising instead. (I’ve looked into other brands & models but nothing comes closes!) I + others will need HD to fulfill🤨🤔 their responsibilities and provide adequate support,customer service & courtesy anywhere & everywhere it’s required! Sure hope that the suits & CEO is aware ,..recognizes and comes thru for it’s current & future customers! (-_-! )>..0r am I barking up a tree huh?🤨🤔

[@cycletron]

I would say get the bike of your dreams. If it is a Harley, go for it! I am posting these videos because I am interested in this topic and am also interested in what other people think. I think HD will still be around in some fashion for many years to come even if at a much smaller scale. I think the tougher thing to figure out now is if you have a local dealer that you like, whether they will be around in a few years given the amount of dealership consolidation that is going on.

[@FlamesAt1000ft]

@@cycletron Thanks so much for the reply!..it’s greatly appreciated! v(‘-‘ )/ I plan and will get my. Dream Bike,..it’s all but keeping me sane right now dreaming of cruising around Tokyo on my VRod! Yes,..that’s right,..I 🇺🇸reside in Japan 🇯🇵and like you have concern over just how many Dealers here will survive. They (HD) were closing down some even before the “PLANdemic” so,..our concern is just! But, I really dig the bike/model Harley and it shall be my first ever ridden. Suzuki was my Make of choice for decades..my current bike (V-Twin SuperBike - ‘98 TL1000R..22yrs old,..see thumb pic!)..has long been discontinued ,parts are scares with stock also being phased out plus,.. they just don’t have any model I desire or practical one for my needs/lifestyle now. I’ve subscribed because I feel we’re on the same page on things and dig your channel so stay tuned for my two cents as a rider’s experiences “overseas” adventures Motorcycle Enthusiast! b(‘_ ‘ )

[@cycletron]

@@FlamesAt1000ft Excellent.! I welcome you input. Look forward to hear back from you!

[@lisar3006]

Harley has too many irons in the fire and their management is way off base. Go hire some old school bikers to run that outfit and Harley will do fine. Harley dealerships seem more like a woman's clothing store at the mall than a bike shop. I have guys bring me the Shovels and pans from Florida and Georgia to get me to work on them because Harley service department don't know these old bikes and they charge too much. I have done a lot of work on Twin cams too. I have never worked on an Evo other than service I guess they don't break down. Harley has had it's obituary written many time and it is still here. (my wife's account)

[@cycletron]

Good thoughts. They seem to have one foot in the grave but who knows how long they can stay above ground.

[@2trdmustanggtfordf1hdsgsfa80]

It’s funny, H-D customer base is obviously dying off. Yet, each year, another group of successful 50 year olds emerge and dream of owning large American premium motorcycles. The MoCo needs to change its business model. Stop gouging on parts, new bike prices, etc. they need to offer bikes that already have options so people don’t end up with a shed full of new take off parts. As an example, Indian seems to be tapping into that concept by offering better infotainment systems right off the show room floor.

[@cycletron]

Indian offers better lighting too.

[@adamlanglois563]

Because it's not feasible to put an air cooled motorcycle in a high state of tune and pass emissions standards. It reminds me of an old In Living Color skit: a guy walks into a convenience store and asks "yo how much for a soda? Clerk: 2 dollars. Customer: shit I'll give you 50 cents and just drink the bubbles!. Sell me an 883 for 2500 less than MSRP and keep the low compression jugs and pistons that we all know are coming off. While we're at it keep the shitty suspension. Let me used that 2500 for the parts that would make it a better bike

[@planefloat]

Triumph, Royal. Enfield and others are made offshore now. Harley could sell its name, but would riders buy a Chinese Harley? . No one bought the Matchless with the Indian head on the front fender after Hendee manufacturing folded in 1953. What happened to the factory they were building in Bangkok, Thailand?

[@whitecapmadness7181]

There is no room for Harley Davidson, after the "Great Reset"

[@charlieryan1736]

Thanks for another interesting and informative video 👍🏻 Just subscribed

[@cycletron]

Thank you sir!

[@geraldnichols4965]

The sky i falling. The sky is falling. You are very negative on Harley Davidson. What you totally fail to mention is the whole motorcycle industry chart sales looks very similar to the Harley Davidson sales chart. Except you fail to mention that Harley did not have as big of a freefall as the rest of the motorcycle industry.

[@timrowell94]

people were pulling money from their home to buy all kinds of shit, when 2008 when the market crashed sales dropped immediately, then covid hit.

[@nokoolaid]

Apple is doing pretty well. They have more cash on hand that Canada has in circulation. Funny thing is, BMW makes more bikes than HD now. I think part of the problem is how the dealers operate. They are predatory. Pricing is almost never transparent. Very few HD dealers list prices of new bikes on their website and then there are the F&I shenanigans, like crazy doc fees, very wide buy and sell rates on loans and charging for setup when HD reimburses the dealer. HD would be better off going to an apple model. Be able to buy online exactly how you want it and take delivery at the dealer. You can buy at the dealer if you like and if you order any accessories when buying it, the dealer gets the sale and install, but pricing is completely transparent. No more $900 or even $500 doc fees, no more 5% spread in buy in sell rates, no more charging for setup etc.

[@cycletron]

I could not agree with you more. You might enjoy my related video. "How Some Harley Davidson Dealers Screw Their Customers". kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppK6n3Wuos9pbc0

[@nokoolaid]

@@cycletron Actually I have and you replied to me. Watching How to buy a HD motorcycle now. Thanks.

[@cycletron]

@@nokoolaid Maybe I am wanting everyone to watch it twice. J.K.

[@nokoolaid]

@@cycletron I was like, oh, I've been here before. It's actually what led me to the other videos.

[@gwynnromano5881]

Forward into the past