Has Leela refuted the Traxler Counter Gambit where Karpov and Vishy Anand did not? || TCEC 17 Rd 92

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FIDE CM Kingscrusher goes over a game asking Has Leela refuted the Traxler Counter Gambit where Karpov and Anand did not? || TCEC 17 Rd 92
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FIDE CM Kingscrusher goes over amazing games of Chess every day, with a focus recently on chess champions such as Magnus Carlsen or even games of Neural Networks which are opening up new concepts for how chess could be played more effectively.
The Game qualities that kingscrusher looks for are generally amazing games with some awesome or astonishing features to them. Many brilliant games are being played every year in Chess and this channel helps to find and explain them in a clear way. There are classic games, crushing and dynamic games. There are exceptionally elegant games. Or games which are excellent in other respects which make them exciting to check out. There are also flashy, important, impressive games. Sometimes games can also be exceptionally instructive and interesting at the same time.
Info about Leela Zero:
en.wikipedia.o...
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Leela Chess Zero (lc0) is a free, open-source, and neural network-based chess engine and distributed computing project.
Leela Zero's algorithm is based on DeepMind's 2017 paper about AlphaGo Zero.[3][6] Unlike the original Leela, which has a lot of human knowledge and heuristics programmed into it, Leela Zero only knows the basic rules and nothing more.[7]
Leela Zero is trained by a distributed effort, which is coordinated at the Leela Zero website. Members of the community provide computing resources by running the client, which generates self-play games and submits them to the server. The self-play games are used to train newer networks. Generally, over 500 clients have connected to the server to contribute resources.[7] The community has provided high quality code contributions as well.[7]
Leela Zero finished third at the BerryGenomics Cup World AI Go Tournament in Fuzhou, Fujian, China on 28 April 2018.[8]
Info about Alphazero:
en.wikipedia.o...
AlphaZero is a computer program developed by the Alphabet-owned AI research company DeepMind, which uses an approach similar to AlphaGo Zero's to master not just Go, but also chess and shogi. On December 5, 2017 the DeepMind team released a preprint introducing AlphaZero, which, within 24 hours, achieved a superhuman level of play in these three games by defeating world-champion programs, Stockfish, elmo, and the 3-day version of AlphaGo Zero, in each case making use of custom tensor processing units (TPUs) that the Google programs were optimized to make use of.[1] AlphaZero was trained solely via "self-play" using 5,000 first-generation TPUs to generate the games and 64 second-generation TPUs to train the neural networks, all in parallel, with no access to opening books or endgame tables. After just four hours of training, DeepMind estimated AlphaZero was playing at a higher Elo rating than Stockfish; after 9 hours of training, the algorithm decisively defeated Stockfish 8 in a time-controlled 100-game tournament (28 wins, 0 losses, and 72 draws).[1][2][3] The trained algorithm played on a single machine with four TPUs.
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Relation to AlphaGo Zero
Further information: AlphaGo Zero
AlphaZero (AZ) is a more generalized variant of the AlphaGo Zero (AGZ) algorithm, and is able to play shogi and chess as well as Go. Differences between AZ and AGZ include:[1]
AZ has hard-coded rules for setting search hyperparameters.
The neural network is now updated continually.
Go (unlike Chess) is symmetric under certain reflections and rotations; AlphaGo Zero was programmed to take advantage of these symmetries. AlphaZero is not.
Chess can end in a draw unlike Go; therefore AlphaZero can take into account the possibility of a drawn game.
AlphaZero vs. Stockfish and elmo
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[@jowharrier3539]

Firstly you did get my name right!! it is Wharrier not Harrier!! The immediate Qe8 has been played a few times (-6=0+1) with the irony that the loss was again by the unfortunate Majunen. What really puzzles me is why Stockfish played the Traxler in the first place. It did not do so without some form of database interference because left to calculate it thinks that Bc5 loses!! As you pointed out it really wanted to play d5. It rates the Traxler as White has a winning advantage and it rates this advantage as 2 pawns worth !! In correspondence when someone plays the Traxler I mentally mark up a free point.

[@kingscrusher]

Blimey - honoured to have your feedback here. Cheers, K

[@jowharrier3539]

@@kingscrusher Good channel. Informative and nicely presented. Keep up the good work.

[@Radjehuty]

@@jowharrier3539 you might then be interested in the game where Leela was able to draw as black!

[@pukulu]

I noticed that Lc0 won with the white pieces in the 5. Bxf7 line of the Traxler and managed a draw with Black. If Stockfish could not defeat Lc0 on the white side of the 5. Bxf7 line, then maybe it is not really refuted. I will analyze the game when I get around to it. The organizer of the TCEC season 17 superfinal did not include the Traxler 5. Nxf7 line in their collection of pre-arranged openings. I don't know why.

[@pukulu]

@@johnnyhyperborean1035 The 6. Kf1 has been analyzed to a draw but not the 6. Kxf2 line. After 5. Nxf7 Bxf2 6. Kxf2 Nxe4 7. Ke3!? it could end in a draw but it doesn't have to. Check it out with a chess engine.

[@balthazarbeutelwolf9097]

With Black Leela played 6..Rf8 (also against 6.Bc4) and held the fish to a draw, so Traxler is not quite refuted yet. Traxler was also requested in Sufi 11 between SF and Houdini, ending in two draws, with Houdini even trying the Nxf7 line.

[@PeterSotosEPT]

It would be interesting if you could get your hands on both Leela and Stockfish and play out the deeper variations here to see if you can truly refute the gambit.

[@mikeymikey2662]

You can do just that in chessbase

[@RunninWithScissors]

If Nxf7 so you allow Bxf2+ most engines still have white up about +2.33

[@Ctb-79]

Thanks for the game!!! Btw how Stockfish played with white?

[@darslandr]

So much ad ....

[@Giovanni1972]

Any good chess engine should be able to defend against the Traxler Counter Attack Gambit--or any human if they have studied it well enough. It requires very precise play, but if you can do it (19 moves, I think) you come out a little better per the computer analysis, but not by much. Its best to avoid falling into the trap in the first place. Defending against it is like going into a near death experience.

[@victorgallegocuadrada8881]

Video masterpiece

[@planepantsgames1791]

kingCxer. You're passion is my jealousy. You are the man, man.

[@planepantsgames1791]

Id play you but I would lose too horribly :)

[@SpaghettiToaster]

@@planepantsgames1791 Losing is fun!

[@sahilbaori9052]

@@SpaghettiToaster if you learn from it.

[@ChessMasteryOfficial]

All chess players should have a hobby.

[@Joel-ty5wn]

Kingscrusher, great videos. It would be nice to see more uploads on human games

[@ledjiphil1196]

Nd4 is too early d6 with idea h6 Nf3 Fg4 is normal so absolutely no refute

[@joseraulcapablanca8564]

I played a beautiful and reasonably successful season of The Traxler OTB in the 80’s sad to see Leela make it peaceful and mostly harmless. Nice analysis with a quick look at some classic games. And an illuminating analysis of this one. Thanks KC keep up the good work.

[@abdulazeezanimashaun5426]

Great

[@l00d3r]

Playing a gambit for that reason -- to develop a reputation of aggressiveness -- is just what good poker players do when they bluff. There are other, important, reasons to bluff that have to do with Game Theory, but reputation is one of the reasons for bluffing.

[@user-lo9tl5fx6o]

How would i play wid u ?i want to play wid u

[@kingscrusher]

Just register at Chessworld with kingscrusher.tv and I will be able to invite you for a game

[@user-lo9tl5fx6o]

@@kingscrusher tys Dear Kc ☺😊

[@RunninWithScissors]

I don't even Traxler bro - Eric Rosen

[@lemonriver3995]

Although stockfish in game 91 chooses the same move 5.Bxf7+ as leela, stockfish on my computer would go for 5.Nxf7, seems it will take a lot more calculation for it to realize Bxf7 is better. Leela however goes for Bxf7 almost instantly(it still took around half a second for leela to switch from Nxf7 to Bxf7, so don't say it's a book, ok?)

[@sahilbaori9052]

His low voice and British accent makes it really difficult to understand what he's saying.

[@THEBOYDALEK]

Sahil Baori lol his accent is crystal clear

[@zoranknezevic6347]

I refuted Traxler gambit too. I,m always playing with white against Traxler and I,m happy, I always win, and i enjoy how people are surprised when they loose, because they are trusting cheap and stupid youtube chess lesson. Of course I never take f7 with my knight, and later I move my bishop back on d5. Games which are you showing are old and theory is developed. And by the way , variation for black pushing a pawn to d5 , and to sacrifice a pawn is refuted by GM Roman Dzindzihashwili analyses. It seems when you play 3 Nf6 you are lost at least 65%. Nobody can save you.

[@jedinxf7]

if you think 3Nf6 is a losing move you cannot be a very advanced player lol.

[@bc_7644]

Right so even you can refute the traxler where computers have failed, and also your gm has better analysis capability than engines which consideres the pawn sac to be equal (even if they prefer not saccing).