Has the Rapture Already - Examining Some Objections to Preterism

[@samwestover9953]

Find your spirit in God. The word is just words!

[@timbranton1709]

Awesome job. I was raised a pre trib rapture believer. It was difficult to let go, but I couldn't refute the truth. Once you open up and read it for yourself, it is very clear. Most Christians get fighting mad over this.

[@ChristCenteredEschatology]

Thanks and thanks for watching. I came from the same place you did. It is hard to let go of something you believed your whole life, even once you know the truth.

[@LarryLarpwell]

full preterism is so obviously true, its amazing mans own flesh took him this far down the its of false eschatology

[@samwestover9953]

Don't you know the word has been mamillated hundreds of times.

[@caddymac6917]

Ok,it is Revelation not with an 's' revelations. so we are in the 1000 year rein? Imo then Satan's chain is way to long cuz things are not getting better nor can man make this earth better.the world is getting worse.

[@ChristCenteredEschatology]

The 1000 year reign is past. Mystery Babylon has already been destroyed and so has Satan. Paul told the Romans around 58AD that Satan would soon be crushed: Romans 16:20 “ And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.” Jesus also taught that the wedding (Rev. 19 & 21) would take place when Jerusalem was destroyed and the apostate Jews were were judged (Matt. 22:1-14 & 23:29-36) Paul taught that Old Covenant Jerusalem (the one that existed in his day) was the one that would be cast out (Gal 4:21-31). The new Jerusalem replaced the old Jerusalem, when the old Jerusalem was destroyed (70 AD), which is when Daniel said the resurrection would be: Daniel 12:7 “Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and *when the power of the* *holy people has been* *completely shattered,* all these things shall be finished. The 1000 years is not to be taken literally. It symbolic and represents quality not quantity. Isaiah prophesied the same thing: Isaiah 27:9 Therefore by this the iniquity of Jacob will be covered; And this is all the fruit of taking away his sin: When he makes all the stones of the altar Like chalkstones that are beaten to dust, Wooden images and incense altars shall not stand. Revelation is a symbolic vision: Revelation 1:1 “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants-things which must shortly take place. And He sent and *signified* it by His angel to His servant John, Nowhere is Satan said to be the cause of sin. Furthermore, Satan does always (and may not at all) refer a spiritual being. A careful study of the use of Satan will show that in the NT it primarily refers to apostate Jews. The spiritual being definition of Satan was added by the authority of King Jame’s translated. They were instructed to keep church words, even though they are not a correct translation of the Greek and Hebrew.

[@john-vb9gn]

everyone will go through tribulation, trust me, you wont escape with a rapture

[@kimwestwood8840]

In John 14 Jesus explains the rapture event BEFORE His 2nd return. Which happens AFTER Israel became a nation. Parable of the fig tree.

[@samwestover9953]

Did Jesus say Rapture? Don't hold your breath!

[@kimwestwood8840]

Yep, John 14.

[@renaissancehick]

No one said Jesus said the word rapture. It is simply a colloquial term many people use to describe the event.

[@the-hollywood-dog-says-6072]

the word rapture is in the Latin Vulgate and Greek translations

[@samwestover9953]

@@the-hollywood-dog-says-6072 Show me the darn word. RAPTURE!

[@samwestover9953]

@@kimwestwood8840 Send the sentence with the word Rapture, in it!

[@renaissancehick]

So I finally found your video and I will try to address your claims point-by-point. This comment will be quite long but I will try to be succinct. In regards to Matthew 24, I was simply quoting verses 29-31 to make the point I was talking about. What I should have said was read the entire chapter 24 and it gives an overview of the sequence of events of the end times. As for your comments of verses 32-34, yes Jesus was speaking to the apostles but you're not taking into consideration his omniscience. Don't you think he knew that the Bible would be written and future generations would be hearing the message? When he said that this generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled, he was talking about the generation that saw the fig tree putting forth its leaves, not the generation of the apostles. The fig tree putting forth its leaves would be the nation of Israel re-establishing in 1947. It would be the generation that saw that. You were also critical of the fact that Matthew 29 was symbolic and not literally the stars falling from heaven. One must look at how stars are used in the bible. Back then, any light in the sky was called a star. That included planets, comets and meteors. In Acts 7:43, the star mentioned was referring to Saturn in which those pagans were worshiping. Angels were also referred to as stars in the Bible as well. Revelation 12:3-4, Job38:7, Rev.9:1-2. Jesus also referred to himself as the bright and morning star in Rev.22:16. The definition of a star also included a prince which came from the Hebrew word kowkab. So in Matthew 29, it doesn't mean the literal stars from heaven are falling but most likely meteorites and/ or fallen angels which were banished from heaven. You also claim that Jesus already returned but is invisible. That is not supported by scripture. Acts1:9-11, 1John3:2, Rev1:7 are just a few examples of showing that people will see Jesus's return. The only one I will quote here is the warning that was given about the very claims you are making. Matthew 24:26-27 wherefore if they shall say unto you, behold, he is in the desert; go not forth. Behold, he is in the secret chambers. Believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. As for your claim that heaven and earth passing away can't be taken literally that is also not supported by scripture. 2Peter3:10-13, Rev20:11, Rev21:1-2. The word heaven used in those contexts is the Greek word ouranos, which means sky. The word earth is the Greek word ge, which means ground, land, world. Your claim that this is somehow a new covenant or people is incorrect. Your skepticism about the city called New Jerusalem is symbolic also has flaws. You also state that there is no way that a city could descend out of heaven and that it's just symbolism, yet Rev.21:10-25 clearly is describing the dimensions, type of material it is made out of among other features that can only be describing an actual city, not the people or some new covenant. I find it amusing to think that you can believe in a God that can create the entire universe, be risen from the dead, part the Red Sea and all the other miracles in the Bible but yet are skeptical of his ability to bring a city down from heaven. You also claimed that the Thousand Year Millennium was only 40 years. Where did you get that number? You can't just arbitrarily change scripture to suit your own timeline. 1,000 years in that context meant a thousand years, period. You also claimed in Rev21:2 that it couldn't be a city because of being called a bride adorned for her husband. What you seem not to understand is that "as a bride adorned for her husband" is a simile for the word prepared which precedes it. You also lay question to the Rapture saying that is not a term in the Bible. No it is not in the bible, but it is a colloquial term used for that event mentioned in thessalonians. It doesn't mean that the event is not going to happen in the future. I say to you and anyone who is reading this comment to study the Bible from cover to cover and not just pick and choose single versus to try to make a point. At least read the whole chapter, better yet the entire book of the Bible that it is written in. Preterism seems to be based on loose soil and has many holes in it. You claimed that people that don't believe in preterism are rejecting and denying God's word. We are not rejecting God's word, we're rejecting YOUR interpretation of it. You pick and choose verses that support your claim, either willfully or ignorantly omitting others that don't back up your story, as well as just passing all scripture that are against your beliefs as symbolism. A lot of it is just downright embellishment. 2Peter1:20 says " knowing this first, that no prophecy of this scripture is of any private interpretation." You would do well to consider that.

[@ChristCenteredEschatology]

Thanks for the reply, however it is lacking any kind of Biblical proof. Here my rebuttal of this reply: You wrote: ”Don't you think he knew that the Bible would be written and future generations would be hearing the message?” *Why Jesus does not explain to his disciples that* *he was referring to a future generation who* *would read the account of the Olivet discourse?* *Please show where Jesus tells the disciples it is* *not their generation that he is speaking about*. This Generation Jesus was very clear about the meaning of the fig tree parable. He told the disciples that they would know the end was near when they saw the signs, *Please show where Jesus told the disciples that* *they were not going to be the ones to see the* *signs.* Every time Jesus used the “this generation” he was referring to his contemporaries: γενεά geneá, ghen-eh-ah'; from (a presumed derivative of) G1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):-age, generation, nation, time. Mat 11:16 “But to what shall I liken this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their companions, Mat 12:39 But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. What generation saw the sign of Jonah? Mat 12:41 “The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here. Mat 12:42 “The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here. Mat 12:45 “Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first. So shall it also be with this wicked generation.” Mat 16:4 “A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet[fn] Jonah.” And He left them and departed.. Mat 17:17 Then Jesus answered and said, “O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I bear with you? Bring him here to Me.” Mat 23:36 “Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

[@ChristCenteredEschatology]

Part 2: Jesus said the fig tree would never bear fruit again Matthew 21:19 “And seeing a fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it but leaves, and said to it, “Let no fruit grow on you ever again.” Immediately the fig tree withered away.” *Please prove form the context of the Olivet* *Discourse, that the fig tree parable is not about* *the disciples knowing the end was near when* *they saw the signs, but rather about when Israel* *is regathered.* *Please tell me which of the signs Jesus gave as* *a reference to Israel being regathered.* You wrote: So in Matthew 29, it doesn't mean the literal stars from heaven are falling but most likely meteorites and/ or fallen angels which were banished from heaven” The context is clearly Judgment against Jerusalem. I gave you specific proof that sun, moon, stars, when used in the contexed of judgment, refer to one nation being destroyed by another. For example, Jerusalem was destroyed by Rome in the very generation Jesus said it would be and that was the same generation he said the following would occur: Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven You wrote: You also claim that Jesus already returned but is invisible. That is not supported by scripture. Acts1:9-11, 1John3:2, Rev1:7 are just a few examples of showing that people will see Jesus's return. Acts 1:9-11 - Jesus said he would return in the glory of his father, His father came many times in clouds and no one saw Him Literally. In Acts 1 Jesus was not visible once he entered the cloud, therefore when he returns in a cloud He won’t be literally visible. You are choosing to ignore the use of Hebraic language, which God chose to give us his word through. 1 John 3:2 “Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has *not yet been revealed what we shall be*, but we know that when He is revealed, *we shall be like Him,* for we shall see Him as He is.” Why didn’t John know what we will be like? After, did he not write these words in 1 John 1:1-3: “That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life- 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us- 3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.” Rev1:7 Revelation 1:7 “Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, *even they who* *pierced Him.* And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.” *Where are those 2000+ year people who pierced* *Christ?* You wrote: “The only one I will quote here is the warning that was given about the very claims you are making. Matthew 24:26-27 wherefore if they shall say unto you, behold, he is in the desert; go not forth. Behold, he is in the secret chambers. Believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. *How does this prove he didn’t come?* Luke 21:8 “And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, *‘The time has drawn near.’* Therefore do not go after them.” Yet Paul, Peter, James, and John all made that claim. *Where are they disobeying Christ?* Maybe they knew the end was near, because someone da told the the signs and because the Holy Spirit told them the things to come: John 16:12-13 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and *He will tell you things to come”* You wrote: “As for your claim that heaven and earth passing away can't be taken literally that is also not supported by scripture.” First off you are using circular reasoning, by claiming that 2Peter3:10-13, Rev20:11, Rev 21:1-2 refers to the literal passing of the heavens and therefore proves that the Bible speaks of the literal passing of the heavens and earth. This does not amount to evidence at all. You must Prove that Peter, John, and Jesus are using it differently then the rest of the Bible and you have to prove that it is being used literally and not metaphorically. I have a video coming out in a few weeks that proves Peter is not talking about the literal planet earth. One such proof is the use of the Greek word: στοιχεῖον stoicheîon, stoy-khi'-on; neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of G4748; something orderly in arrangement, i.e. (by implication) a serial (basal, fundamental, initial) constituent (literally), proposition (figuratively):-element, principle, rudiment. Stoicheîon never refers to physical elements. Here is every time it is used in the Bible: Gal 4:9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. Col 2:20 Therefore,[fn] if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations- Heb 5:12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.[fn] 2Pe 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? There is plenty of other evidence that proves Peter is not speaking of the literal heavens and earth. You wrote: Your skepticism about the city called New Jerusalem is symbolic also has flaws.” *What flaws?* *Please p[provide scripture*. *Show me one scripture that predicts a third* *earthly physical temple.* You wrote “You also state that there is no way that a city could descend out of heaven and that it's just symbolism, yet Rev.21:10-25 clearly is describing the dimensions, type of material it is made out of among other features that can only be describing an actual city, not the people or some new covenant. I find it amusing to think that you can believe in a God that can create the entire universe, be risen from the dead, part the Red Sea and all the other miracles in the Bible but yet are skeptical of his ability to bring a city down from heaven.” *Please provide Biblical evidence that we should* *take the New Jerusalem coming down out of* *sky as literal, when God said he gave the* *Revelation in symbolic form.* Of course signs will be given in terms they could understand, how else could they understand the metaphor? The 1000 is not to be taken literally. There are several reason to take it to be 40 years, here are a few: 1.) All post millennial realities came into existence by 70 AD. 2.) Jesus bound the strong man (satan) during his ministry. 3.) Jesus and the Aposltles all taught that the second coming would be in the first century. The concept of the rapture is not in the Bible. I have two videos that proves this. You are the one who is cherry picking verses. I used every verse in it’s context. Preterism is the only eschatology that is consistent with the whole of scriptures. Here is the overview of God’s plan of redemption: The Old Testament foreshadow Christ. God promised that Israel would have their last days (those are the only last days in scripture) God promised that at the time of Israel’s judgement, he would save a remnant. Also at the time of Israel judgement, Christ would bring salvation to all nations. Today, God has only one people, as clearly taught by Paul in Eph. 2 & 3. The church age has no end, and the literal planet earth will never be destroyed, just as God’s word says. You will notice several bolded question or points you need to clarify. So far you have not provided any exegetical proof for your claims or against mine.

[@kimwestwood8840]

@@ChristCenteredEschatology That is a perfect example of strong arming scripture to mean what you want it to be. If Jesus actually returned in 70 AD why isn't it documented clearly in scripture? Most agree Revelation was written around 96 AD. If your position WAS clear, it would be CLEAR to all of us .

[@ChristCenteredEschatology]

@@kimwestwood8840 Point out which scripture I misinterpreted. Show me where I changed the meaning of words. Jesus and his Apostles taught that Christ would return in the lifetime of their original audience. Prove they taught that He wouldn't return until long after they died. It wasn't documented in scripture because revelation was the end of inspiration. Do you Christ is going to return a second time and then there are going to be new books added to the Bible? The late date of Revelation is easily dispelled. I will do a video on it some day, but you should read Kenneth Gentry's before Jerusalem Fell and read the actual works he cites (don't just believe him or dismiss him). You will be shocked at what the late date advocates have done. The Bible is not clear to us because we have been taught to many false presupposition, that we have heard so many times that they have been like facts.

[@kimwestwood8840]

@@ChristCenteredEschatology Speak for yourself about clarity of the bible. I am only interested in truth, nothing else. I do NOT read it with presuppositions, but read with a clear and open mind with the Holy Spirit as my teacher ..Not interested in reading a man's opinions about Jerusalem. Non cannon writings by men are not inspired by the Holy Spirit. I get what I need from the bible. I won't debate this with you , it isn't my ministry to do so .And I hate to type. But your attention to the fig tree is way off. The parable of the fig tree ( written after is talking about Israel becoming a country in 1948 . And you can't easily debunk the date Revelation was written , you can argue about it but again I am not interested in debate. Andy Woods does a great presentation debunking the ridiculous idea of preterism. kzbin.info/www/bejne/n5vUpqmqhJd4ZpY

[@lostriverbethanychurch4170]

I feel compelled to make a note or two here. First, Jesus only ever talked to His disciples (orally), and even when He was talking to the crowds, Jesus was still talking to them. Jesus never says anywhere clearly that He was speaking to us 2000 years later. If this is one of your foundational points, we really should not be taking anything in scripture as if it applies to us. Clearly, there is some issue with using this type of argument to prove any point. You are basically saying, well, Jesus isn't speaking to us, so it is a problem to consider logically what Jesus is saying. Secondly, In terms of 'this generation,' point. The term this generation is not 'your generation,' yet this is how you are interpreting the term. Jesus didn't lie, and Jesus wasn't wrong because this generation does not have to apply to the disciple's generation only; if Jesus was saying in absolution, he would have said "your generation" would certainly not pass away. There is the language for that type of clarity if Jesus wanted to say, your generation, yet Jesus does not use that type of clarity in this passage but chooses to speak in a way that leaves uncertainty of clarity. As Jesus so often does. We see this often in His parables. He does this for the purpose of discipleship. Remember, Jesus is a teacher, and Ribbie teaches in such a way that though seeing many are unseeing, and though hearing many would be unhearing (Matt 13:13) unless they press into Jesus and seek to understand and grow. Jesus can very clearly be speaking about the generation that experiences all the events that He is prophesying about. The language does not disqualify this view. And this view calls one to lean into Jesus to understand which generation Jesus is speaking of. When one considers Jesus' reference to the Anti-Christ and the abomination of desolation, and his words and explanation of a great time of tribulation, and then the Sun and Mon no longer giving their light, one concludes that these events have not happened yet. So then it becomes logical that either Jesus has returned and is a liar, or he hasn't returned yet. If Jesus already came then Matthew 24:30 and 31, make Him a liar. And if He has already come Paul, and John and even Daniel are also liars, 1 Thess, 4:15-17, 2 Thess 1:7-10, & 2:8-12, 1 Cor 15:51-54.. I don't have time to list all the passages, but note that at the return of Christ, the righteous are gathered up to Him and the sinful are judged and removed from the earth. Lastly, Remember that Jesus was also a prophet and is clearly speaking prophetically in this passage, as He is speaking about future events. Note that there are times when Jesus speaks plainly about some things, and others times he speaks in a way that again is not always clear to understand, and we need to clarify through other passages of scripture and by the leading of the Spirit of truth. Taking a good look at Daniel 9-12, then the other gospels, then 1&2 Thessalonians and then finally Revelation, noting the alignment that the abomination a desolation and the anti-Christ setting Himself up as and declaring himself to be god, clarifies should help dismiss this thinking that Jesus Christ has already come yet we all missed it. Ironically don't Jesus himself say that His return will be so evident that the Whole World Will See IT. Did not Paul also speak to this truth, as well as John. It is strange that even though there is so much that clarifies that Jesus second coming will be on a comic level where He will judge man and the spiritual beings, Satan and His angels. One gets a very clear image that we won't, even we can't miss it, because, like His first coming did spiritually, His second coming physically it will change absolutely everything. Yet you seem to be ignoring all this..

[@kimwestwood8840]

Good points. Also if he returned in 70 AD wouldn't that event be documented?

[@ChristCenteredEschatology]

First off, some things are timeless, and some things are not. Jesus and his Apostles taught that Christ would return in the first century ( I will be releasing a challenge video on this soon). Either he did or they were wrong. The Bible was not written to us, but it was written for us. Secondly, This generation means the one he was talking to. “This” is the near demonstrative and generation means a generation: γενεά geneá, ghen-eh-ah'; from (a presumed derivative of) G1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):-age, generation, nation, time. Every time Jesus used this term geneá, he was referring to his contemporaries. People attempt to change the meaning of Jesus’s words because they don’t believe he was right. There is not textual evidence to support the distorting of Jesus’s words. This should be obvious when we read Matthew 24:32-33 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, *you know* that summer is near. 33 So *you* also, when *you see all these things*, know that it is *near-at the doors!””* Clearly Jesus is telling the disciples that they will see the signs and in doing so they will know when the end is near. That means the end would have to be before their generation passed away, just like Jesus said. If Jesus meant a future generation, then he would have said “that” generation or the generation that see these things. Jesus never once indicates that he is speaking of anyone other than the disciples. There is no uncertainty in “this generation”, just an unwillingness to believe it. Jesus wouldn’t have said your generation because it was exclusively the disciple’s generation. Jesus also told the Pharisees that their generation would be judge for all the righteous blood shed on the earth, and again he said "this generation." Jesus was clearly saying that the generation alive when he was speaking was going to see the signs of the end and they did. You have to add to god’s word to say Jesus is speaking to people in the future. Everyone of Jesus’s parables is in agreeance with a first century second coming. That is how I came to change my eschatology. You wrote:” When one considers Jesus' reference to the Anti-Christ and the abomination of desolation, and his words and explanation of a great time of tribulation, and then the Sun and Mon no longer giving their light, one concludes that these events have not happened yet Anti-Christ: 1 John 2:18 Little children, *it is the last hour;* and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists *have come,* by which we know *that it is the last hour.* John said the Anti-Christ was already there and that he knew it was the last hour, in perfect harmony with Jesus. the abomination of desolation Jesus told the disciples that they would see the abomination of desolation: Matthew 24:15 “Therefore when *you see* the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),” Jesus told the disciples that the abomination of desolations was the armies surrounding Jerusalem: Luke 21:20 “But when *you see*Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.” This happened in 66-70 AD, within the generation Jesus said it would. You wrote: “If Jesus already came then Matthew 24:30 and 31, make Him a liar.” This is because you are not allowing the Bible to interpret the Bible, you are forced to believe some scripture and not others, because you only read it as if it was speaking to 21st century western mindset people. I don’t have to pick which verses to believe because I allow the Bible to inform me of it use of language and I submit to God’s sovereign will. Daniel 9:24-27 was a prophecy of 490 years, not 2500 plus years. It was fulfilled with the destruction of the second temple, just like it said. Daniel 12:1-7 tells us that the resurrection would be when the power of the holy people was completely shattered (see also Isa. 27:9), which happened in 70 Ad and is in perfect agreement with Jesus and Paul: 1 Thessalonians 4:15-1 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that *we who are alive and remain* *until the coming of the Lord* will by no means precede those who *are* asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then *we who are alive and remain* shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 “, I tell you a mystery: *We shall not all sleep,* but we shall all be changed- 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, *at the last trumpet.* For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” 2 Thessalonians 1:1 “Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy,” *To the church of the Thessalonians* in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: 2 Thessalonians 1:3-6 “We are bound to thank God always *for you,* *brethren*, as it is fitting, because *your faith grows* exceedingly, and the love of every one of *you* all abounds *toward each other,* 4 so that *we ourselves boast of you among the* *churches of God* for *your patience* and faith in all *your* persecutions and tribulations *that you* *endure,* 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that *you* may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which *you also suffer;* 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those *who* *trouble you,* 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 “and to give you who *are* troubled rest *with us* when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 2 Thessalonians 2:5-7 “Do *you* not remember that when *I was still with you* I told you these things? 6 And now you know *what is* restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness *is already* at work; only He who *now restrains* will do so until He is taken out of the way.” Revelation 1:1 “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants-things which *must* *shortly take place.* And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, Revelation 22:6 “Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true.” And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which *must shortly take place.”* Revelation 1:3 “Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for *the time is near.”* Revelation 22:10 And he said to me, “*Do not seal* the words of the prophecy of this book, for *the time * *at hand.* Daniel was told to seal up the prophecy, because it was a long ways off, John was told not to seal it because the time was at hand. You got to do a lot of word twisting to make the words of Christ and his Apostles fit your paradigm. Don’t you think it is time to let the Bible interpret the Bible and believe all of it. God Bless and thanks for watching.

[@kimwestwood8840]

@@ChristCenteredEschatology Classic example of misunderstanding bible language. Your free to believe what you want. Joseph Smith believed he was right also. Mohammed believed he was right. History is tainted with people who thought they were right. In my opinion Andy Woods gives the clearest presentation of the bible timeline. But more important than anything, are you born again?

[@lostriverbethanychurch4170]

As you continue to reject the prophetic nature of Jesus’ teaching. Noting that Jesus is speaking to His disciples, his church, his children and is more likely speaking to them through their unity not their division, as you are doing. As you are doing this you also are neglect to explain the reality of all that Jesus said would happen at His return. Again the Antichrist’s World reign, the Abomination of desolation, the great time of tribulation that would see most of the world population be wiped off the face of the earth, the return of Christ that EVERY eye would see, the great separation between the righteous and the evil. What about all of these things? Your fighting out of pride not out of understanding from the Spirit. Again, you are assuming that the this generation always means the generation Jesus is talking to. The ‘this generation’ is the generation Jesus is talking OF, not necessarily the generation Jesus is talking to. And this point is true in other passages when Jesus talks about generations. You seem to be backing so much of your view just on this one point and as you do you are making all these other passages untrue. I’m not sure why you would ignore all the passages about the future events of Jesus return, when Jesus returns the whole world will see. And you seem to ignore completely that the words of Jesus Christ’s were for His disciples in that day as much as they are for us His disciples today. And how you deal with the rapture by denying it is not biblical at all. This is not your own thinking and not the clear teaching of the word of God.

[@ChristCenteredEschatology]

@@lostriverbethanychurch4170 @lostriverbethanychurch4170 Please explain how believing that Jesus predicted his return in the first century and the destruction of Jerusalem is rejecting the prophetic nature of Jesus's teaching. We both agree that they are prophetic, I just believe they were true and you believe they still have not happened almost 2000 years after Jesus said they would happen. Making Jesus a false prophet: Deuteronomy 18:22 " when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him." When ever prophecy is said to occur soon or at hand it is always in relation to mans time perspective. Jeremiah 17:16 “Also I spoke to the priests and to all this people, saying, “Thus says the Lord: ‘Do not listen to the words of your prophets who prophesy to you, saying, “Behold, the vessels of the Lord’s house will now shortly be brought back from Babylon”; for they prophesy a lie to you.” Jeremiah 29:9-10 “For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent them, says the Lord. 10 For thus says the Lord: After seventy years are completed at Babylon, I will visit you and perform My good word toward you, and cause you to return to this place.” According to God the false prophets were lying when they said the vessel of God’s house would be brought back shortly, when it was going to 70 years. If equating 70 years with shortly is lying, what do you think equating 2000 years with shortly id? Ezekiel 12:21-25 21 And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 22 “Son of man, what is this proverb that you people have about the land of Israel, which says, ‘The days are prolonged, and every vision fails’? 23 Tell them therefore, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “I will lay this proverb to rest, and they shall no more use it as a proverb in Israel.” ’ But say to them, ‘ “The days are at hand, and the fulfillment of every vision. 24 For no more shall there be any false vision or flattering divination within the house of Israel. 25 For I am the LORD. I speak, and the word which I speak will come to pass; it will no more be postponed; for in your days, O rebellious house, I will say the word and perform it,” says the Lord GOD.’ I addressed the Anti-Christ; I cannot make you believe the clear and easy to understand words of John in 1John 2:18. Please show me a single verse that says the Anti-Christ will rule the world. I also addressed the Abomination of desolation and every eye seeing him. Obviously when you cannot refute someone you just ignore them. I will now address the great tribulation (which Jesus clearly said would be in the disciples day): The Tribulation 1.) The Bible never says there is a 7-Year Tribulation 2.) Jesus said the great tribulation would be in his generation Matthew 24:34 (24:15). a. Jesus said the tribulation would be such as had never happened since the beginning of the world until *this time*. By clear definition this time means the time in which Jesus was speaking. b. Jesus said, “his generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.” Matthew 24:34. According to the clear definition of words that includes the Great tribulation. c. Jesus was speaking to the disciples, in person, for real. He was answering their question. He told them that they would see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel, which was the armies surrounding Jerusalem (Luke 21:20). d. Daniel 12:1-7 i. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation, Even to *that time*. 1. Daniel’s that time = Jesus’s this time. ii. that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; 1. The Jewish-Roman war was 3 ½ years. iii. when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished. 1. When was the power of the Holy people shattered? I am not fighting out of pride; I am simply believing what the Bible says instead of the false teachings of men. Why don’t you try to prove me wrong with some proper biblical exegesis, instead of expressing opinions and taking scripture out of context.