Bruce Gore: Postmillennialism, Partial Preterist View of Revelation, Hal Lindsey, Eschatology

[@benjaminbelcher2739]

I grew up dispensationalist, and last year, I watched his 60 hours on the book of Revelation. This man literally changed my life. I'm rereading the Bible in a new light, and boy, does it make a lot more sense. Thank you, Bruce!

[@SK-mz4cq]

Ditto. Watching it now

[@danmannz]

So true! he changed my life too!

[@davidwoods6015]

@@danmannz These are excellent reports!!!! I'm very pleased and excited when people finally find out exactly what's going on with bible prophecy and ditch some of the aberrational ideas out there!!!!!!

[@kelliea5729]

Thank you - I am glad to hear you do not believe water baptism is needed. I believe thre are many who are confused with this. Last question - the gifts. Do you see them still here today? In fact, I believe water baptism is reverting to the old covenant - and if we are going to practice that - then we must abide by every single old covenant 'law' and I do not believe we should baptise in water even if it is to show allegiance. God knows our hearts and mind - who am I showing this allegiance to? Others men and women?

[@father-sonflightsimulator3838]

Absolutely phenomenal series.

[@christalone71]

Mr. Gore's series on Revelation was so helpful to me. I learned so much!

[@jeojttong]

Now try Chuck Missler...

[@toniwardell1933]

I’ve been watching Bruce’s videos for at least 7 years. His high school classes were very spot on. Those kids probably don’t know how fortunate they were to have such a knowledgeable teacher

[@Maddog_Mark]

I love Bruce’s humility and teaching skills

[@SK-mz4cq]

I’m actually just started watching Bruce’s series now on Revelation before I saw this video. It’s excellent.

[@dg4871]

Bruce is a gift from God to this generation!

[@gavinmitchell5853]

I came here from Bruce Gore's channel. His teaching through Bible History and branching into Revelation has truly opened my eyes to text. Thank you for your faithfulness to teach and practically live the Word of God. The immense blessing your teaching has been on my church, community, family, and person cannot be measured. In fact, inspired by Bruce's example, I began memorizing the book of James and am currently working toward chapter 3. Psalm 110:1 ESV A Psalm of David. The Lord says to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.”

[@a5dr3]

Bruce Gore is awesome. What an amazing resource.

[@SerenityNow22]

Bruce’s 10 part series “Apocalypse in Space and Time” was a huge help for me as I worked out my Eschatology. Hopeful theology for the win!

[@SK-mz4cq]

It’s one of the best teachings I’ve seen. Not post-mill yet though but now I think dispensationalism is not good.

[@davidwoods6015]

You are correct, it's for the win!!!!!

[@kevinteichroeb6997]

Bruce Gore is a wonderful gift to the Church. It was thanks to his teaching (in part) that I saw the truth about dispensational premillennialism and dropped it. I am now a post-millennialist, with some variation from Mr. Gore's view, but I am so thankful and hopeful now!

[@gwentomlinson4205]

It is very important to know what the Bible says on your own. After 28 years of reading the Bible I truly do not see a rapture. Plus there is not a pastor out there that can prove it in Scripture. When you read the Scriptures they give you, open your bible and read the chapter before and after these particular Scriptures so you can throughly understand it in context

[@ayobithedark2772]

Excellent advice! It's just so sad that eschatology has become such a point of division among Christians. I get so exasperated trying to convince people the dispensational view of the rapture is wrong, and I notice the dispensationalists are just as annoyed by me

[@scottmcdonald3207]

"The Rapture" can be seen in 1 Thess 4:13-17; 1 Cor 15:51-52; John 5:28-29; Dan 12:1-3. It's quite a thread, and includes Jesus' words that dispensationalists neglect!

[@kcmerced9512]

Breath of FRESH AIR ! Thanks be to God, an optimistic eschatology of triumph

[@mickey_rose]

This is delightful! I’m so glad Mr. Gore walked us through his eschatological journey. “Groping in the darkness” describes it perfectly. I am thankful for his contribution.

[@YSLRD]

This was highly anticipated and not disappointing in the least. Thank you both.

[@anthonyg5055]

One more subscriber to Bruce Gore. Great episode!

[@jordanmattievisuals]

Thank you so much for this interview. What a gracious, humble and gifted teacher. I look forward to listening to his series on Revelation!

[@father-sonflightsimulator3838]

Mr Gore, hands down, has the very best series of lectures on the book of Revelations I have ever heard, making this difficult topic accessible to so many seeking these answers. All 60 video lectures of the “Apocalypse in Space and Time” series were phenomenal and well worth the time investment. And I stumbled on it while struggling with dispensationalism, which I held early in my own walk. This view I began to find as increasingly outlandish, especially after reading the “left behind” series. Ultimately the crazy expressions in those books became the nail in the coffin for this view for me. Truly Bruce Gore is a blessing, and his other topic series have been equally great.

[@wendypratt6837]

Thank you Mr Gore for your amazing series on Revelation! I've listened to all 60 episodes and am going to now go through it slowly and make notes! It has been such an eye opener and to hear how the Bible all fits together is just mind blowing!

[@sharon-ge4zk]

Best use of my time spent... Thank you so much for this interview . Truly loved it, excellent! I've always liked Bruce Gore but now he has risen to 'hero' status for me.❤️ I was particularly impressed with his running daily and simultaneously memorizing scripture, at the age of 75. . he's a good man and I believe he's anointed and I thank God for him and his lovely wife 🕊️

[@steveareeno65]

I've watched a lot of Bruce's videos and I am so appreciative of the work he's doing. Such a humble guy too

[@commentator9693]

I have been blessed by this brother's teaching, especially on Revelation.

[@Bradleymarlin-e7w]

God bless you Bruce, you have been such a blessing.

[@geraldreineke1348]

I have learnt so much from Brue Gore thank you brother

[@babicutatacelu2366]

Great discussion. Grateful to discover this brother. Will tune into his Revelation series. Seems like such a wise man.

[@LucianaPelota]

Deeply appreciate Mr. Gore!

[@J.F.331]

Bruce is a hero of mine in the faith. I’ve been watching many of his videos and am personally writing a commentary on the book of Revelation while gleaning on his series as well as reading Chilton’s and Terry’s books on the Revelation. I also have Bruce’s book on the Historical Context of the Bible which I highly recommend. This man is a valuable treasure to the body of Christ.

[@whatcameofgrace]

Absolutely amazing KZbin videos by Goreblast!! We love you sir!!!!

[@scotthourigan9992]

I have been listening to Bruce for a couple of years now and he is a great bible teacher and a biblical history teacher, his insights are priceless, his humility is laudable and his perseverance is outstanding. He has more lectures on the bible and bible history than anyone else that i am aware of. I have gleaned so much wisdom and exegesis of scripture from his teaching. I listen to him almost daily and appreciate you Bruce. You are a gifted teacher that edifies many christians on a daily basis including myself. Thank you so much Bruce Gore

[@JoseGomez-gr3tf]

Bruce has helped andertend the scriptures in a supernatural way. Thankyou. GOD and Bruce

[@davehughes1213]

Interesting and well documented. I thank you. Dave Hughes

[@clintstinytrailerconversio5560]

I just listened to Mr. Gore's quick Revelation teaching and know it is the best I've ever heard. I completely agree with his take on this amazing book. Thanks for the interview and thank you Mr. Gore! I'll be following.

[@ericthehalfmexican9187]

Thank you for introducing Bruce to us. As a person who has only left dispensational eschatology in the past 3 years, it has been hard for me to find good material on post millennial eschatology that is an audio format. Part of me adopting a hopeful eschatology has been to get away from the leviathan’s that are modern corporations and start a business. Audio resources allow me to listen and learn while working, because I sure have had to work a lot in the last two years.

[@johnholmes8760]

Bruce is the kindler, gentler Postmill but great teacher and communicator

[@SimonJification]

Bruce is the best!

[@NatachaP]

Thanks for the conversation so far :)

[@johnholmes8760]

David Chilton use to come to the church that I attended he knew the OT way better than anyone I had ever met, it was like talking to an encyclopedia… He was genius and yet very gifted… A true gift to the church

[@suryakumar5260]

Bruce work on Revelation through his 50 videos is epic. Takes difficult passages and stays faithfully to it's interpretation connecting it to OT to which it alludes.

[@wretch1]

I loved Bruce's lectures.

[@AndreasWiget]

Love your podcast!

[@michaelblanks4284]

There's something especially special about mr. Gore is his teaching voice so pleasant to listen to. I have other teachers on post-millennial that I like but their voice inflection and wears me out rather quickly where is Mister Gore I can listen to him all afternoon just saying

[@JosephusAD70]

Bruce, I've been following your work for years and have been incredibly blessed by it. You've always been kind and helpful in your interactions with me. You're such a breath of fresh air. Employing intellectual honesty and applying sound hermeneutical principles has been your calling card. Your "eschatology of hope" is grossly needed in these times dominated by pessimillennialism. That said, I was rather shocked by your characterization of FP. You said, "I don't think honestly the mission is accomplished yet. I know my FP friends think things all got finished in 70AD, "mission accomplished". So now what do we do? Go work on our golf game I guess. If we really believe the mission is accomplished it has some some pretty significant impact on what I'm going to do tomorrow morning, But if I think there's a mission that's still yet to be accomplished, then it's going to give me a kind of a different view of things." Bruce, I respect you a great deal but this is a gross mischaracterization of FP. Given your comment, it leads me to believe that you've had paltry little personal contact with FPs. I trust that you believe the 70 weeks of Daniel was accomplished in the death, burial, resurrection of Christ and His wrath outpouring on that wicked and perverse, Christ-killing generation. Therefore, do you believe that since this has been accomplished that there is no further ramification, implication or application? You imply that because prophesies have been fulfilled that a terminus of further effect is assumed. We are mandated to make disciples of all nations... why would that cease simply because the prophetic has been fulfilled? Is the Word of God not still active? Bruce, this, in my view, is a serious mischaracterization of FP. I don't know of a well known FP who doesn't believe in the ongoing nature of fulfillment? They put on conferences like, "How shall we then live?" In other words, since Christ's prophesies have been fulfilled, what kind of impact should that have on the way one carries out their mission? No FP friend of mine believes that the ultimate mission has been accomplished. Your "go work on your golf game" implication is strange to me. FPs believe that the whole earth needs to be filled with the glory of God. They haven't stopped working. I've heard the same charge you leveled used by dispensationalists who say, "If the Olivet has been fulfilled, what's the use? What's left?" This is an absurd conclusion, in my view, but rather common. And you are making the same accusation. Fulfillment does equal termination. I don't know of a single FP who is just twisting in the wind working on their golf games with no care about Kingdom expansion. Bruce, I know you didn't mean for your comments to be offensive but they were. FPs are diligently exegeting the scripture, evangelizing the lost and discipling new converts. You said that we might be here 1,000 or even 10,000 years from now. Do you know what the end game looks like? Neither do I. All I know is that we have a long way to go. BTW, your "hopeful eschatology" includes (correct me if I am wrong) some future time of proliferating evil? If that's the case, then FP's eschatology is far more hopeful than yours since this, they believe, has already occurred. Bruce, I still love ya brother. And I will continue to recommend your wonderful studies. As I've said many times, you are one of the best teachers on the planet. Your legacy will have everlasting reverberations!

[@davidwoods6015]

Your full preterism is rank heresy!!!! And Matt 24 30 has got nothing to do with a 2nd coming. 70 a d was the beginning of the new covenant not the end!!!! Long way to go!!!!!

[@JosephusAD70]

​@@davidwoods6015 Thanks for your reply. You are correct in your appraisal of consistent preterism. It is, in fact, considered "rank heresy" by creedalists. But if you think FPs have not wrestled with Scripture and have come to these conclusions without blood, sweat and tears, you would be grossly mistaken. David, who wakes up in the morning hoping to be called a heretic? Who in their right mind wants to be told that they're going to Hell for their eschatological beliefs? Who wants to always be on the outside looking in? Do you think any of us enjoy the constant ridicule? Listen, I assume you are well intentioned, but perhaps it would be more productive if you actually engaged with what I wrote rather than to begin your pithy comment with "Your full preterism is rank heresy!!!!" I realize you believe it but things are not as simple as you apparently have been led to believe. Do you believe the creeds are infallible? Do you believe the creeds / WCF contain errors? Do you believe Jesus descended into hell as stated in the Apostle's Creed? Do you believe the Papacy was the antichrist as the WCF states? I love the creeds but as partial preterist Gary DeMar has stated, those responsible for the creeds didn't show their work. They didn't use Scripture to flesh out those statements. And therefore, shouldn't we be compelled to back up the creedal statements with Scripture? The problem as it stands is that there is significant disagreement within the partial preterist / amillennialist community as to which passages support specific creedal statements. [David, you wrote: "70 a d was the beginning of the new covenant not the end!!!!] If you are insinuating that full preterists believe that AD 70 marked the end of the NC, then to use your words, you have a "Long way to go!!!" The NC has no end and no FP believes that it does. And, if you think the NC began in 70, then you are in complete opposition to Bruce Gore's teachings. It was the OC that was fully terminated in 70 concurrent with the destruction of the Temple. (Heb 8:13) Perhaps in haste you misspoke... because those are strange statements. I'm not quite certain why anything I wrote caused you to cite Matt 24:30. So let me ask you this. 1. Is it your position that Jesus's Olivet referred only to His coming in judgement in 70 and is completely unrelated to His parousia at the end of time? If so, please share with FP heretics the specific passages which singularly regard Jesus's 2nd coming, having no relationship with 70 AD. 2. And please provide all references to the end of time. Whether you are aware or not, there is a deep divide within the partial preterist community as to which passages concern AD 70 and which ones regard the end of time. And, instead of the attack (which might have made you feel empowered), why not deal with what I actually wrote. If you want to create productive dialogue, why not begin by handling Bruce's gross mischaracterization of FP. As I said, Bruce is one of the best Bible teachers on the planet, but I think he has some blind spots. He's clearly wrong about the implications and ramifications of FP. There's not one credible, long-time FP, who believes that since prophecy has been fulfilled that there's nothing left to do but work on our golf games. I'm sorry but that's an embarrassing statement to make, which leads me to believe that he's never taken the time to seriously dialogue with a FP. As I attempted to make clear, FPs believe, as I hope you do as well, that there's a whole of work yet to be done. Making disciples of all nations is a daunting task but one we believe God will ultimately accomplish. Thanks again for your response. I like your zeal though I believe it's misplaced. I truly hope you will attempt to answer my 2 questions as well as support Bruce's assertion that FPs are mostly just working on their golf games with no concern for the Gospel's proliferation. That is a terribly unfortunate mischaracterization of FP. Regardless, I truly love Bruce Gore!

[@davidwoods6015]

Your rambling has no merit!!!! I understand what Bruce Gore is saying. It's not over until it's over!!!!!!! I am a partial preterist, have been for a long time, just as has Bruce. Wonderful teacher!!!! Spot on!!!!!!

[@JosephusAD70]

@@davidwoods6015 Your response was so incoherent that it required a great deal to make sense of it. So you think it’s Christ-like to sit behind your keyboard lobbing insults without defending your position? That’s sad but all too common. Does it make you proud to accuse without answering the accused? This is not a good look. Very disappointing that you can’t answer simple questions. If you are so concerned with heresy wouldn’t you care to set the heretics straight. But I’m not surprised. It’s been par for the course. One day you will wake up to realize that we’re on the same team with the same goals to disciple the nations. Merry Christmas! Jesus Christ is King and ruler over the kings of the earth. Ave Christus Rex!

[@mikewinkler4799]

So grateful for your teaching Bruce Gore. The pdf book, The Days of Vengeance" that you recommended was great!! Thank you!

[@walterestes984]

Excellent Interview

[@rickhall517930]

Bruce Gore is a national treasure.

[@kelliea5729]

Thank you for this interview - Bruce makes so much sense. Sadly, today's government 'owns' most churches today and dispensational history reveals the same people in charge today (that should not be) are those who brought in the futurist dispensational indoctrination. I am so grateful that I have come to know the bible in a different light - I enjoy reading it now - whereas I was frustrated when trying to make futuristic dispensations fit. I kept telling myself that God is not the author of confusion - and I see so much more clearly now. Some questions remain - but not confusion as before.

[@J.F.331]

Amen! Not saying I would know the answers to your questions, but I would like to take a chance at helping you understand something if I have studied it.

[@kelliea5729]

When I read Ephesians 4:5 - I believe that the ONE baptism is that of the Holy Spirit. Why then do churches still baptize in water, which I believe was an old covenant custom? Comments?@@J.F.331

[@J.F.331]

@@kelliea5729I personally have no issue with water baptism being practiced as an expression of having saving faith, but by no means is water baptism a means to salvation. You’re right, the baptism in Ephesians 4:5 is not water baptism, it is essentially regeneration and God justifying His people. The word baptize (even in the Greek) simply means to be placed or immersed into. I hope my notes on 1 Peter 3:21 are helpful. DOES BAPTISM SAVE US? 
 The short answer is no. Peter is not referring to water baptism here. He is referring to being baptized in Christ. 
 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. 
 THE GENERAL MEANING OF THE WORD BAPTIZE MEANS TO BE IMMERSED OR PLACED INTO: 
 So just as the ark saved Noah and his family, and that ark brought them safely through the water, so did Christ save us. We who are in Christ are saved from the wrath of the Father poured out on the unjust and wicked. It was not enough to know about the ark or even have touched the ark, only those who were in the ark were saved from wrath. Likewise, it is not enough to know about Jesus nor even believe that He once existed, but we must be IN HIM to be saved. You may say, “ that’s great, but how can I be IN Christ?” Answer, by God. 
 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 NASB [26] For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; [27] but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, [28] and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, [29] so that no man may boast before God. [30] But BY HIS DOING you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, [31] so that, just as it is written, "Let HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD." 
 Another way of understanding this statement is to comprehend the corespondent language. Peter is corresponding the act of baptism (being immersed under water and rising out of it to what Christ did for us by dying then being risen up in resurrection. The act of water baptism is simply a pledge of allegiance to Christ, identifying ourselves with His death, burial and resurrection and our public declaration to follow, obey and worship Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

[@kelliea5729]

Remember as well - Jesus himself DID NOT BAPTIZE in water according to scripture - His disciples did because we were in a transition period of moving from old covenant to new.@@J.F.331

[@mikewinkler4799]

Great Channel. Glad I found it!

[@tunglam8210]

But Dispensationalism still attracts a large crowd and sells alot of books. It preys on ppls anxieties and fear about tomorrow. Very sad.

[@johornbuckle5272]

The direction of travel for mankind seems to point toward pretrib eschatology. Though i share Bruces understanding of Revelation up to ch 19-20, i have yet to hear an explanation of the millenium that makes sense, other than to place the millenium in the future.

[@kcmerced9512]

Dispensationalism will cease in about twenty-years... there's no way that they can stretch a "Biblical generation" to one-hundred years

[@jmac3163]

@@kcmerced9512 they’ve stretched it 2000 years

[@jmac3163]

Bruce is always worth listening to

[@andreastarks2780]

I would say this is the most difficult part for me in regard to dispensationalism is that I have a hard time giving the benefit of the doubt that a majority of the teachers aren’t using to prey on people. I’m praying to be gracious to those teachers to give the benefit of the doubt and praying for the Holy Spirit to lead them to read in Spirit and in Truth.

[@controlclerk]

God bless our brother in Christ.

[@JDWilliamsPD]

Bravo Bruce!

[@chorgzent.3978]

I found Big Bruce lectures just other day off the streets now thanks to u buddy!

[@coollady2135]

I am new to all of this, so I’ve been learning about dispensationalism and covenant theology, and when he said that people are wanting the antichrist to come is when it hit me between the eyes because I’ve been thinking the same thing. We want things to go bad so psychologically we’re not gonna help or we’re just gonna say well that’s the way it is that’s what revelation said. What if dispensation list was created to bring about the destruction of this world and we’re letting it happen.

[@J.F.331]

Exactly. Dispensationalism has disarmed the church in many ways in regards to engaging the culture.

[@brianfuller4739]

I would somewhat disagree with that. The dispensation teachers and pastors that are prominent do not teach to disengage from society and culture. In fact, they teach just the opposite because “the time is near” and now more than ever do we need to shine forth our light to this dark world. On the other hand, I’ve found that those that are being taught the dispensation teaching are generally the ones with the “give up on culture because the time is near” mentality.

[@harryseibert457]

Its amazing 60 years ago Hal Lindsey thought we were living in the last days and 60 years before the 1960's Russell Taze was proclaiming that we were living in the last days..60 years before Taze time Ellen White was proclaiming the last days!

[@mitchmurray117]

As did the 12 Apostles and Paul as well. The "last days" are the entire Church Age of grace. So it is not incorrect.

[@markrademaker5875]

Interestingly enough, David Chilton, during the last year or two of his life, was a full preterist. Also, i agree with that beautiful saying, "We Are Blessed to be a blessing."

[@J.F.331]

I heard that too. Although I think Full Preterism is in error, it is almost as if God sovereignly allowed Chilton to come home before he dived too deep into error or even heresy.

[@markrademaker5875]

​@@J.F.331Well, i am a FP. I went full in about 2000. The Passage that took me over the top was John 11, Jesus Saying, "I Am the resurrection and the life." Before 2000 i used to merely think that resurrection was something Jesus did, John 11 Says It Is Who He Is. I was thinking to physical. Same with the new heavens and the new earth [Isaiah 65 & 66 and Rev. 21 & 22]...that is another way of saying life in this New Covenant age, you know, the book of Hebrews, Jesus Is The Better! Well, enough said, keep studying. Maybe check out some Michael Sullivan material, he's solid on the Solas et cetera.

[@larrymcclain8874]

I am partial preterist. The whole of the book of Revelation, mainly the defeat of the enemies of Christ, the harlot, the beast, and the false prophet is separated by the Holy Spirit from the defeat of Satan himself, and finally the defeat of death by a minimum of a thousand years. This gap in time is pronounced. Obviously these last two enemies of Christ is still ongoing, in that the influence in the world for evil brought on by Satan continues, and is ever increasing, and basically people are still physically dying. Both of these prove that the final two enemies have not yet been defeated, and thus the thousand year gap is not yet over.

[@dolandlydia]

He gives excellent lectures and free. I do pay for youtube premium but well worth it .

[@Triumph_of_the_Sky]

How anyone, at any time, could actually enjoy listening to Hal Linsey is beyond me.

[@joshnelson3344]

I stumbled upon Bruce’s lectures a couple years ago. His historical and Biblical knowledge is very impressive to say the least. Which is why I was so confused when I found out he belongs to the PCUSA and supports women ordination.

[@churchmythbusters1863]

One thing that gets overlooked is when in John 8 Jesus said four times that he would raise up those who believe on him "on the last day." That is at the rapture when the dead are raised and we all get our new bodies. It is the last day. Like Paul said in 1 Co 15, it is "the end."

[@jonathancollins1099]

Didn't David Chilton become a full preterist before his death?

[@whhammon]

Yes, yes, yes. all will come to believe!!! or at least know. Truth is irrepressible. Power unto righteousness.

[@billiamnotbob]

The mission won't be close to accomplished until the Jews start converting in large numbers. Paul spoke of that and judging by current affairs, that's still a long way off. Love Brother Gore and enjoy his teachings and enthusiasm!

[@Triumph_of_the_Sky]

Mission Accomplished circa AD 70.

[@Revolver1701]

There was a faithful brother who was known for his humility. The elders were meeting and decided to recognize this man for his humility. They gave him a lapel button that had the word “Humility” printed on it. He was presented with it and elders immediately took the “Humility Button” away from him because he wore it.

[@gregb6469]

One needn't be a dispensationalist to be a Baptist, nor need one be a Presbyterian to be post-millennial.

[@chrislucastheprotestantview]

45:00 I want to play the part on one of my shows where he's talking about this because I'm trying to run for office and a lot of people are pushing back against me and I feel like they're pushing back against me because they have that mentality that Mr Gore is talking about

[@toniwardell1933]

I went to earl palmers church in Berkeley when he was pastor

[@santosconcepcion9616]

What is the theme song called and who is singing it?

[@eschatology_matters]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/sIHSeGqso72ebpYsi=kPNWLAqnnXGFq4SK

[@cbwilson2398]

Would like to hear any thoughts Bruce Gore has regarding theonomy.

[@mikeswhitney]

I have basically assumed Rev 1-19 was fulfilled in the past (after books by Chilton, Kik, Rushdoony) but got the details verified in the smattering of Gore's videos on Revelation. So my focus has been on figuring out Rev 20-21. One thing I have pretty much settled on is that Revelation is not Christian eschatology but was the transition from the Old Testament era into Christ's era. It was tumultuous because of the great degree of transition happening

[@mikewinkler4799]

Chris Date with the Rethinking Hell ministry pointed out once that "Partial Preterism" = Preterism, and ",Full Preterist" = Hyper Preterism. Helped me see the difference. 🙏

[@eschatology_matters]

Your first problem was listening to a guy who was "rethinking" hell. Doctrinal novelty after 2000 years of the Spirit leading the Church is foolish and dangerous

[@mikewinkler4799]

Lol .. God bless you. I challenge you to debate him.

[@mikewinkler4799]

@@eschatology_matters He will mop the floor with you.

[@user-sh4tn7iv9f]

Please tell me how to find his vs by vs teaching on Revelation. I don’t see a description link below. Do you have a link to it that you can send me? Thank you

[@Jus4kiks]

Type Bruce Gore Revelation and search, enjoy!

[@FollowJesusNotMan]

For most of my life, I've had a pretrib rapture/dispensationalist view of everything. But recently, I've come across partial preterism and WOW. Mind blown!!! It's literally the ONLY "ism" out there I've found actual logical answers to my burning questions about the rapture and everything surrounding "the end times". I've always read Matthew 24 and thought "BUT HE WAS TALKING TO HIS DISCIPLES!!!, How are these people coming up with this rapture stuff here?!" And for a long time I was just convinced I was delusional and that they must be right because they "knew their stuff". Anyways. This has shattered my belief system. Mostly in good ways but some of it is bad because I'm literally not really sure what I believe now....apart from Christ crucified for me. But....I'm just going to keep digging. Most futurists think it's quite ludicrous to believe things are getting better and better til the very end....and looking around, I kind of see their point. But....what if it's because WE are choosing to see it like that?! We've all just been duped into sitting there all pessimistic and thinking the Lord is gonna come rescue us from this (honestly, this isn't even bad considering the horrors of 70 AD! The mothers were literally EATING their children due to starvation!). If we were to all stop thinking that way, maybe we could make a difference in this world and not be ashamed at our Judgement.

[@Beccaboo739]

So the whole idea that this darkness has to happen-- how are we supposed to look at if we are in Satan’s little season? There is deception EVERYWHERE, so… it certainly seems like with all the abilities to deceive about truth we are definitely there!

[@anthonybennett5335]

Agreed

[@dcrunicycles]

10. And I fell down before his feet to worship him. And he saith unto me, See thou do it not: I am a fellow-servant with thee and with thy brethren that hold the testimony of Jesus: worship God; for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. (Revelation, 19)

[@melharness9385]

If dates are important for us to interpret Scripture correctly, why didn’t God have the authors write the dates of their gospels and epistles ?

[@joelrog7]

“All nations” without exception or without distinction?

[@toolegittoquit_001]

'So' vs. 'then'

[@preppedforeternityhomestea2848]

I would be curious to what level dispensational thinking played into Israel becoming a Nation again in 48?

[@edeancozzens3833]

I heard that when asked Darby counseled someone not to have a career but to just do ministry. Many of us from the Jesus Revolution following Hal Lindsey made that same mistake. Regret it now.

[@michaelcarr8932]

The Great commission was given to the first century apostles and believers, which was fulfilled at the end.....70 ad.

[@dcrunicycles]

30. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather up first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn. (Matthew, 13)

[@edeancozzens3833]

I now see Dispensational Futurism as a tare sown by the enemy. It seems to pop up every time the Spirit moves to squelch and divert the whole thing.

[@interxyz]

The kingdom of God is not of this world; it's made up out of believers in Christ who have past away & those who are living today. When you're constantly seeking for the kingdom on this earth rather than the eternal one, you'll have large black spots in your eschatology. The victory will be full in the resurrection; when the whole eternal kingdom will also have a physical body on earth again, which can never pass away. Dispensationalism is a misunderstanding, but the response should never be to shoot into the other extreme because you don't like the gloomy passages in scripture. The future is never gloomy, because even when all the witnesses of Christ are killed on a certain day, they will rise & reign again on another appointed day, ordained by the Lord our God; it will come to pass!

[@mongrelrogers9642]

For me it was Philip Mauro's work "The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation" that started the process of de-indoctrination.

[@jd-gw4gr]

how can one know that the Holy Spirit is speaking through someone: i.e.; bruce gore " ...seeking the truth is alittle bit more important than possessing the truth... as we all are groping through the dark" Amen

[@mikewinkler4799]

Some Churches and schools have too many creeds that ask to hold to doctrines that are not necessary for salvation.

[@michelhaineault6654]

Preterist if the one.

[@MB777-qr2xv]

In Revelation 20 it says this, "Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should DECEIVE THE NATIONS NO MORE till the thousand years were finished. So, if you say we are in the Millennium now, that means, according to scripture, Jesus is reigning, and Satan is bound so as not to deceive the nations anymore. Satan is absolutely deceiving the nations; you have whole nations that are steeped in Islam, worshipping Allah instead of Christ. Some nations worship Buddha or one of the 300 million Hindu Gods. Other nations (communist nations) are atheistic. Then how can you say Jesus is reigning already from Heaven when we have a wicked sinful world? 2nd Timothy 3:1-5 it says, “There will be terrible times in the LAST days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God." IF Christ were reigning, do we really think we would have over a billion Muslims, who view Jesus as a prophet right below Mohamad, a billion Buddhists, who believe Jesus was an enlightened person, a billion Hindus, who believe Jesus studied yoga and became a guru to the Jews, a billion Catholics who are entrusting their souls to Mary at the hour of their death, nearly a billion atheists, the LGBTQ running rampant, TV shows and movies, that continually blaspheme God and His Christ, alcohol, drugs, human trafficking, and colleges that have become propaganda mills that promote Godless, Big-bang theology and Darwinian Evolution, and a host of other sinful deeds that will be eliminated during the reign of Jesus Christ, our Holy God. But ONLY during the Millennial Reign is Satan bound so as not to deceive the nations. So, the Millennial Reign has to be different, in fact better than the rest of history. Outside of the Millennial Reign, Satan is not bound, so he is clearly deceiving the nations. This means, in a nutshell, when Satan is not bound=bad times. When Satan is bound=good times, nations NOT deceived. I think you are convinced on preterism whether scripture agrees or not.

[@edeancozzens3833]

The Scottish Presbyterian Rebellion

[@JackBristow37]

I think in many ways partial-preterism is a very viable position to take, eschatologically speaking. But I have a question for you Pastor Toman. Jesus told Caiaphas: "Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." The siege of Jerusalem happened in AD 70. Caiaphas died in 36 AD, according to the sources I have been reading online. Shouldn't Caiaphas have been alive to have witnessed the siege of Jerusalem, and didn't even Josephus (as well as other historians at the time) note chariots in the sky during the siege. I just find it odd that Caiaphas had died so long before these aforementioned events occurred. Shouldn't he have been alive to see them, as Christ said?

[@davidwoods6015]

Jesus spoke to the generation that would see all these things. So it's not surprising He would speak to someone from that same generation who necessarily would not live to see the whole thing.; I don't see any conflict there !!!!!

[@SugoiEnglish1]

The pronoun you...was used by Jesus in other places to speak of those in that generation...obviously, not every single person was going to live from 33 to 70 CE.

[@JackBristow37]

@@SugoiEnglish1 Thank you Dion for your response--except for the snarky adverb "obviously" you tossed in there, which I felt was unwarranted. The reason I asked about Caiaphas is because several Preterist websites list Caiaphas as being alive during 70 CE. In fact, Revelation Revolution states Christ was saying Caiaphas would be alive to witness the Second Coming. Most historical sources say he was not. So obviously, it's not that obvious to me, when several websites on the net that espouse Preterism don't share the same viewpoint as you ;)

[@roncuzzort283]

I am a Preterist and I believe in the furtherance advancement of the Kingdom of God. It is an eternal Kingdom. I think many misunderstand the Preterist view.

[@jeojttong]

Who were the two witnesses?

[@larrymcclain8874]

​@@jeojttongThe Law (Moses reference) and the Prophets (Elijah reference).

[@jeojttong]

@@larrymcclain8874 How did they preach for 3 1/2 years and were dead for 3 1/2 days before rising from the dead? Please explain

[@larrymcclain8874]

@jeojttong When Cestius Gallus, Roman General, with a Roman legion, came and camped around Jerusalem, at the end of 66 AD, after the Jewish revolt began over the excess abuse of Florus, Judean governor, is when the Christians departed Jerusalem under admonition of Jesus in Luke 21:20-24. Eusebius tells that they journeyed to Pella for safety and remained there throughout the war. For the next 3.5 years, the only faithful witness from God in Jerusalem was in the 300 synagogues where every Sabbath the Law and the Prophets, along with the Psalms, were read and proclaimed. When the Christians left, this was the only faithfully preached message available until the city with its Temple was obliterated. Moses symbolically represented the Law, and Elijah represented the Prophets.

[@jeojttong]

@@larrymcclain8874 Have you read the prophecy around this? Was the law and prophets never taught before the 3 1/2 years? How where the teaching of the law and prophets killed and left in the streets for 3 1/2 days? What rejoicing was done by the world when they were killed? How where they raised? What fire did they call down from heaven? What were the other miracles that they did? Who were the covenant with many that was made? How did the anti-christ break the deal? Who was the prophet of the anti-christ? How was he mortally wounded? Who were the kings of the ten horns? Which one was the little one? What was the wars with nations that happened at that time?

[@edswan2966]

I enjoyed the discussion and found Mr. Gore’s explanation of why he holds to partial-preterism and post-millennialism informative . I understand why the phrase “theology of hope” is used to encapsulate their eschatological belief system. However, it seems extensive portions of scripture need to be allegorized to hold to post-millennialism, and the increasingly obvious prophecy-fulfilling world events we see occurring need to be ignored and conveniently dismissed to hold the post-millennial view together. I understand, and agree with to an extent, the negativity (gloom and doom) that is often packaged with pre-millennialism. But that doesn’t negate the validity of pre-millennialism.

[@andreastarks2780]

But in that same respect a great many world events over history for every generation would also need to be ignored if one is to always believe in every generation after the first century “everything that is happening now means we are at the end of time/Jesus return.”

[@catmanbluz]

That's interesting. The JWs were preaching that 1975 was the year of Armageddon, and they started preaching that in 1968.

[@cbwilson2398]

Maybe a plain tie to go with your checkered shirt?

[@SugoiEnglish1]

I just want to know what is the text for a third coming? Since Matt 24 Luke 21 etc call the return of Jesus in judgment in 70 CE/AD the 2nd coming, what texts describe the third future from us here in 2024 as what would be a third coming?

[@hammerbarca6]

When I was only listening at times (and not watching) I thought for some reason I was listening to theologically corrected William lane Craig

[@anthonyg5055]

Watch out forWLC he has a wonky view on creation.

[@hammerbarca6]

@@anthonyg5055 he’s got wonky views on everything. I’m aware, but I appreciate the warning.

[@Triumph_of_the_Sky]

Bruce is one or two sentences away from embracing Preterism in its fullness.

[@SugoiEnglish1]

Let's pray that he gets there!

[@toolegittoquit_001]

Preterism - but NOT in fullness. Full Preterism IS heresy

[@Triumph_of_the_Sky]

@@toolegittoquit_001 How is Full Preterism heresy?

[@jd-gw4gr]

correction Jesus Christ was is and will always be the MOST Humbleness example for mankind to have lived die and lives again for ever more.

[@TheMastersHarvest]

1000 year reign is history. The Little Season is on the playing field. Proof in 2nd Esdras 11-13. Chapter 11 presents a line of US presidents, some of whom are still alive today. Analysis, proofs, dates, and timelines at my YT channel.

[@toolegittoquit_001]

Esdras is not canon

[@TheMastersHarvest]

@@toolegittoquit_001 2 Esdras was was ripped out of the Bible In the 1800s to hide it from you. You will still find it in the RSV version of the Bible.

[@jmwSeattle]

Did the Holy Spirit help you live the Christian life,

[@arliegage1380]

I'm a believer in "living in the Dispensation of Grace"..

[@SugoiEnglish1]

By asserting grace as a mere dispensation or time allotment, you distort Jesus' work. He said his kingdom would have no end! The scriptures only teach the age of Moses and the age of Messiah.