Has THORNS Really FELL OFF?

he does. too bad there isnt many option in guardknights.
these days he's more of a jack of all trades, has some damage, air capability, survivability but none are amazing in particular for today's standard due to enemy stats gradually increasing.
and E0 Brawler is Optimal lol
Annihilation 12 County Hillock Countryside 8 Guards No Vanguard
BGM
βlαnoir / Aoi
夢と幻想の終点にて / しーけー
Abstruse Dilemma / Ashrount vs. 打打だいず
Selenadia / Lime
Timestamp
00:00 0 - 200 Kills
02:32 200 - 300 Kills
03:25 300 - 350 Kills
04:41 350 - 400 Kills
Mlynar Mountain Chongyue Thorns Beehunter Jackie Indra

[@dominustempus8969]

Mountain being the vanguard we all know and love

[@Ak4set]

Nothing feels frustrating than the stage is almost ending then Thorns just had his second activation

[@sleepydoctor4344]

But there is Chen/Stainless/Warfarin/Liskarm who can easily recharge his skills

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

How do you guys take so long to activate his skill twice? It's very fast for me, maybe you aren't placing him in good spot.

[@Ak4set]

@@thelegacyofgaming2928 when the stage has fewer enemies its really not hard to notice or theres more elites right off the bat and lesser trash mobs to feed thorns.

[@sekischro5093]

​@@Ak4set then use the elites to feed thorns i guess, since theyre tankier..?

[@Ak4set]

@@sekischro5093 Or i can just burst them down. most of the elites in the later stages in the game hit verrry hard. Doing the extra effort just for thorns to charge his kill is painful

[@ced6079]

Guardknights doing Guardknights shenanigans

[@kurei5467]

i don't have thorns but i do want him in my main roster hes quite great at fulfilling his role as a lord guard

[@cainlaxeus06112]

And he's also one of the few that has like more than 40% HP after getting buffed by Aak. I always spam them whenever I feel like I would be in trouble with the Boss is Mlynar + SilverAsh + Chongyue ain't gonna make it to phase 2.

[@NeostormXLMAX]

How do you think silver ash compares?

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

@@NeostormXLMAX Silverash is good when there's invisible enemy. Otherwise just use Thorns or even Mlynar

[@NeostormXLMAX]

@@thelegacyofgaming2928 mlyar yes, but most stages dont last long enough for thorn infinite range

[@RenDidSmth]

Have you got him? If not, you can buy him at the shop operator after Surtr now

[@cefrinaldi8060]

Consistent dps, sniper attack range for melee unit, fast aspd, and need healing only in damage heavy environment. He isnt going to fall of soon. Many guard after him only compete against SA, while other laneholder like mountain lack his aerial attack and long reach.

[@gonetbh231]

ngl don't remember the last time I missed thorns' range

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

@@gonetbh231 Sure, but he's still better lane holder than everyone else, and no other guard can replace him. Also used in AFK strats AKA easy mode. You don't NEED Thorns, but he makes the game significantly easier.

[@twittwitmf3258]

​@@thelegacyofgaming2928which is a bad thing because you get burnt out way easier

[@gonetbh231]

@@thelegacyofgaming2928 lv90 thorns haver here, yet to favor him over mountain in the last 10 months. the bootup time doesn't really do him any favors and he's not exactly within the first 10 of my anti-air options. also he's ass in d15 is3.

[@_real_es]

@@gonetbh231 agreed the fact that throns needs to constantly keep on hitting stuff to become a decent lane holder really sucks, he needs 30 hits in total while also waiting 30 seconds no matter what, and plus people like to say his air defense capabilities are good but honestly if you want a air defense just bring a sniper or better yet just bring texalter. theres nothing that makes thorns better than mountain, since mountain has: cheaper cost, basically instant skill activation, always getting healing and he is aoe those are all things that make mountain a complete beast

[@jevs1555]

He still mops up generally trash mobs. He's a sustained lane holder dps just like mountain. Both of them aren't going to be doing much against anything past shield guard type enemies. Other units like mlynar, chongyue, silverash or quibai can handle stuff like that. He hasn't fallen off in the slightest. He's still a staple unit in afk/auto clears

[@luchin7742]

used in afk =/= didn't fall off besides, he hasn't been used in afk main story since ch9. In events he's decent because events are typically easy. In EX stages he struggles a lot.

[@darthbuzzkill]

This was a great mountain showcase too, so reliable!

[@alita92]

true

[@cirnobyl9158]

Enemy stat bloat is real and it definitely shows especially for physical DPS. There's a reason we say a Schwarz is all you need, not a Thorns is all you need, for IS3 D15.

[@kentran4354]

The only stat that got bloated is enemy HP. The average of enemy defense still doesn't change across all game mode. Beside Thorn has always been seen as the lane holder not a boss killer, while Schwarz is literally the embodiment of the later category. You can't expect lane holder to carry a boss fight. Beside beside, IS3 heavily punished melee operators due to the existence of seaborns thrower, especially single target melee operator which Thorn is the biggest name of.

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

Why bring Schwarz when you have Surtr or Pozy? 😂

[@cirnobyl9158]

@@thelegacyofgaming2928 Pozy can also carry IS3 D15 very well. She does OOC and WFU better than Schwarz, but Schwarz does most of the bosses better, so it depends on what you're missing. Surtr struggles to kill past D12 due to high RES. She's still a decent pick for immortality.

[@mcbill7352]

who would ever have thought thorns falling out of the meta

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

If Thorns falls out, then that means Mountain and Mudrock fall out too. So no lane holders 😂

[@oberon5657]

It honestly feels like a joke question

[@Avatar_Belial]

I have never taken thorns off my team since i got him waaaaaaaaaaaaaay back. He can be used anywhere and I honestly think he will never fall off. And once modules release for lords I can actually see them making his regen passive permanent and then he will be especially insane. I the module will enhance his poison then i dunno what they will do with it other than make it slow aswell maybe but please not just a damage increase XD. Also hope the module stats for him will give more atk speed.

[@arcanumdelta]

omg all of these songs are so goated fr (blanoir and selenadia my beloved)

[@yellowmountaincultivator7114]

thorn is a jack of all trades, but master of none. (1) he got regeneration like mountain but he can't hit stuff for 5 seconds. (2) he got art damage but in the form of poison that can’t stack. atk and atk speed after 30 hits and 30 seconds. (3) he can hit aerial units but range operators can do that too at lower DP cost. BUT (1) thorns got better atk range than mountain, (2) he can deal physical and art damage, and (3) he can block ground enemies unlike range operators. thorns can do ALL of that p.s note = bad grammar

[@rakaalcuzaadnankadar6719]

Quite fitting, remembering the continuation of that quote that people often forget. "Jack of all trades, master of none. But still better than a master of one."

[@Sunand4r2]

Well that clear is sick man

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

Thorns will never fall off. Lane holder that also attacks aerial at a great distance is too good. He also poisons and deals some arts damage. He's on pretty much every AFK strat. I don't see him ever falling off unless HG messes up big time

[@_real_es]

thorns is only good on story and some events, but most of the time the better lane holders ARE mudrock and mountain the aerial attacks from thorns are honestly not all that great since you can just bring a hill operator for air defense. thorns also really struggles against a lot of high defense enemies and or high/fast attacking or damage enemies which honestly makes most of the game at the moment. compared to other lane holders its pretty clear thorns has honestly fallen off. hes not bad its just that other lane holders are just MUCH MUCH better

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

@@_real_es Thorns is good in everything but High risk CC. Bosses are pretty much the only thing he doesn't deal with. Mudrock can deal with bosses, but her range is too short and she can't hit aerial, which is key in being an all around good unit. Mountain has short range as well and can't hit aerial. Mudrock and Mountain are good, but there's no denying that Thorns is just more useful overall. Why put another operator on the hill when you can just deploy Thorns? Also, Mountain struggles against high defense as well, so I don't see the point there. At least Thorns has a chance to kill them because of his arts damage, and if he's behind another operator, he deals significant damage to whatever they're fighting, high defense or not, which both Mountain and Mudrock cannot do because they lack range. Mountain is good because you only need to E1 him, but overall, Thorns is better if you are a veteran player. And again, afk strats include Thorns a lot for a reason. He's just that good that you don't need to manage after 2nd activation (unless boss). Then there's the fact that some enemies cause problems if they get to close to operators, which Mountain cannot deal with (though Mudrock can because of shields). Regardless, there's really no better lane holder than Thorns. Mlynar and Surtr are better guards, but they are not lane holders.

[@ANTSPlantation]

Mlynar casually taking down one of the toughest bossss.

[@luminary69revision2]

get around the DP issue by bringing flametail she is my favorite guard

[@Chikadesu.]

IBERIAN DESTREZA. ALSO THAT CAT MAN IS DOPE. SOLOED THE BOSS XD

[@Konpekikaminari]

That "cat man" is actually a horse

[@comando.ror2]

Based and guard-pilled

[@dazai-san47]

rare chongyue s2 usage

[@skywalkerjohn8965]

Either we got spam early elite or the common enemy is too strong. Take the rotten dog in chapter 12 for example. If they spam that as normal enemy, lane holders is pretty much useless. Obviously that not always the case. And lane holders have drawback that not suitable as the same goes on. Like thorns and Ling brother need sp

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

So, the real title should say are lane holders falling off? Thorns is best lane holder, so if he falls off, they all fall off

[@nameless1179]

​@@thelegacyofgaming2928The only thing Thorns has over the others is he hits aerials. His survivability is mediocre his ST nature and SP is starting to be a bother due to stat bloat.

[@ECnerdgamer]

Based fellow (arcade) rhythm game enjoyer wooo (Edit: the tracks are from Chunithm in Sun EP 5, Maimai, Arcaea in the song pack Lasting Eden and ONGEKI in memories of ONGEKI) Anyways, I find thorns really hard to truely powercreep, he's just too good at his job and have the thing that most laneholders just doesnt have: HEALING His range and versatility really makes him so strong, although there's a hefty atk recov sp cost, but you can somewhat mitigate that problem with some ops and the problem isn't really as bad as people make it up to be due to him (usually) being able to get this second rotation in

[@ilvy3296]

Just out of curiosity, if we didn't have Mlynar how many annih possible without Vanguard?

[@TheAncool]

without both mlynar chongyue 5 annis without mlynar (but chongyue exist) 4 annis that said some of them should be possible with enough thinking lol

[@alita92]

THORNS IS TOO GOOD

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

Guard rank: Mlynar Surtr Thorns Mountain Silverash The rest

[@juxnlatell_juxnhuy]

Man this set up is so good tho Juzt bring vanguard bro

[@TheAncool]

no

[@Sunand4r2]

He is playing guardknight for a reason bro

[@dominustempus8969]

I think you missed the point of the video

[@wickeddave5148]

Mountain is literally there

[@Charlett]

Thorns isnt one of your cures to the map anymore, but still hes very strong And enjoyable to use

[@princenwegbu3045]

I mean when you are doing a very limited playstyle with no healing setup and long stages like Annihilation, of course Thorns is going to fall off. He's still used to this day, heck he's a godsend for IS 2 and especially 3, plus he's used on a lot of afks.

[@TheAncool]

i feel like you misunderstood the whole thing. im saying he falls off in general usage due to increased enemy stats,nowadays his main role are in no/minimum healing setup and long stage like annihilation, which is exact opposites of what you just said...

[@ryanli5803]

No one uses Thorns in high diff IS3...

[@thelegacyofgaming2928]

Yea, this vid basically can just say use only Fast Redeploy + surtr and everything else useless 😂

[@littlelw319]

IS2, yes, he has his use there. IS3, big no. most of IS3 map design either favor the fast re-deploy playstyle or have certain gimmick that nullify certain problem of that stage not to mentioned there is no guarantee on recruit for your desired 6* unit anymore, the possibility of brute force with a big stat stick like thorns or Gator become even harder. sure you can get away with starting with Thorns in lower difficulty, but in higher difficulty he is either a good additional on your team to cover some lose end or a liability because you can't E2 him in the run.

[@jevs1555]

@@ryanli5803speak for yourself. I’m doing just fine

[@rzwei]

Will level him up if he were karin 😂

[@charginginprogresss]

Never has been

[@Auroraen]

yall i don't understand this obsession with laneholders like they make easy stages easier and they usually do nothing interesting in genuinely difficult stages, yet everyone seems to think they're S+ tier ops thorns + mountain overrated and i will die on this hill

[@setsunakiritsune1297]

Well, that's if you have other operator to compensate. Basically it's a good carrier to farm/trust farm. Hard content is not the only thing to consider to tier something. Except if it's specifically Hard Content Tier. And I don't know about it being overated, but landholder does essential to your team at many map, having 1 less thing to worry is good generally.

[@lynling7830]

I just use mountain + horns1 these days. Can't remember when i last used thorns since there are many snipers that can deal with drones and are cheaper.

[@uhm175]

He has not really fell off, it just that it feels like since there are so many lord guards being introduced now, is that it's getting harder to just rely on Thorns, in fact nowadays you need a max pot Thorns to at least makes him more viable when compared to the available guards rn, I also feels like he needs a little module (as long as it's not overkill) otherwise he would break the game again, his kit is already still so viable, i still uses him in my lineup %90 of the time

[@bloodred255]

you might have better luck bringing vanguards to annihilation for the dp

[@TheAncool]

:( but they bad

[@kr4547]

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