Hasbro FINALLY Admits the Truth! Secret Lair's Manufactured Scarcity

[@Saiku]

I miss when secret lairs weren't unique cards, but just alternate art reskins of stuff.

[@kerolokerokerolo]

don't you remember the outrage of Secret Lair walking dead drama?

[@phelanwolf6747]

Like the current "Pixel Perfect | Extra Life" secret lair? That is quite neat.

[@Kjos_jax]

Secret lairs are the worst thing to ever happen to the game... No matter what cards are in them

[@MR-hk2qu]

if Universe within Version came faster it would be a lot better as well.

[@AngelusNielson]

They said they will eventually make a functionally identical card. Just gotta wait I think it was a year. They have done it with the STreet Fighter cards.

[@PickledUndead]

They could just preprint a first run, then print on demand once the run sells out. But of course that would make too much sense and benefit the consumer.....

[@VentusGR]

Fomo drives sales. Print on demand does not. Most of these massive corporations have already hit their peak and any more growth is not realistic using any other tactics.

[@AngelusNielson]

And the whale collectors would pitch a fit again.

[@RoflCannon6]

@@AngelusNielsonI’m starting to think Ahab had a point

[@jasonruth7414]

@@AngelusNielson So what? Fuck whales. Fuck rich people. Normal people deserve to have things too.

[@0jikori]

Honestly it wouldn't be a bad idea and a way they could do it so people can still get stuff on the collectors side of things is have the first run be serialized. That way people who super buy in get something exclusive like it is now but people who don't care about that can still get a copy of the cards after first run is over.

[@hjrosas071]

It's good that Wizards told us not so long ago that proxies are a good thing

[@anthonysulpizio2269]

I didn’t hear that bullshit

[@GiuliaGinik]

You suck as a human being ​@@anthonysulpizio2269

[@cliff5n0t3s]

@@anthonysulpizio2269they sold their own luxury proxies

[@WTF-Cubing]

@@anthonysulpizio2269 Magic 30th 😂

[@printingproxies]

absolutely

[@AlexSilver9]

In other news, the sky is blue.

[@Gzilla313]

The worst part is these Marvel secret lairs are $10 more expensive and they expect to sell out immediately. They raised the prices not because they have to for licensing, but because they know they can get away with it to make more.

[@fulgerion]

Blame the whales and investors that have too much money. Actual players aren't driving these prices. Greedy secondary market is.

[@moos138]

Your welcome

[@Pastelseraphim]

Someone should check if any of the investors buy any of the secret lairs and resell them in the aftermarket cause I think that's called something

[@cliff5n0t3s]

Late stage capitalism?

[@kevinvieyra3371]

Trust me real investors don’t do that. Investing in something like magic is a sin for investors. They have to see a profit and the way cards are they can lose value in a heart beat

[@phelanwolf6747]

@@kevinvieyra3371 so cards are exactly like stocks? 😂

[@kevinvieyra3371]

@@phelanwolf6747 no. That was my point. No good investor is going to invest in cards unless it’s the company it’s self.

[@luchorivadeneira3616]

Remember the days were people complained about 3 stupid bans and gave away commander to wizards? Crazy times indeed!

[@KevinBrady253]

Bans should have always been discussed at the table.

[@Gillandria]

The days where cEDH players forced commander into the greedy hands of Wizards with incel behavior and death threats? Crazy indeed indeed!

[@UmbraBree]

​@Gillandria doubt. I assume it was Wizards using bots till a name and shame happens. Always assume the Corpo's that benefit are at fault unless proven otherwise

[@thiccboicory9964]

Commander isnt a sanctioned format who cares play what you want we don't need wizards or a 3rd party controlling the games we play at home and hell even stores my local dont give a dam we all play with proxys and use whatever we want for the most part we use are own bans. Play how you want talk to your play group I promise you will be playing with your favorite decks

[@Aldrnari956]

@@UmbraBreethat kind of conspiratorial thinking is unnecessary. Sometimes, stuff is exactly what it looks like. I don’t trust WotC/Hasbro at all, but to jump from “corpos will screw your over for money” to “they’re faking death threats by using bots to harass a group of people in order to seize control of a community run format instead of just using a lawyer like a normal company” is a massive leap in logic.

[@redwertens2283]

MPCfill calls to me like the green goblin mask. It gets louder every day

[@xDawhite]

Whats more shocking then this (because I already knew) is that there are still enough ppl out there buying these products, spending a ton of money. Change starts with the customer unfortunatly, if they can sell their stuff why should they change anything. I mean in my mind they should anyways, but unfortunatly thats not the reality

[@XmortoxX1990]

WOTC is fueled by mostlt idiots/normies, finance bros, FOMO and whales. They're too big to fall, so they can do whatever they want.

[@tdot8280]

Sadly theres no chance that millions of players gather and stop buying stuff. Would like to see that for this crossover bs, but since there will always be enough buyer i just make my money with them.

[@Nick-82]

Theres also scalpers who will buy up a bunch of stock and then sell way above value because they know people want them and there's limited number.

[@kerolokerokerolo]

sadly people have their own criteria and havee different opinion/taste than you? weird take

[@Ger0nimo76]

I would rather say that problem is that there’s still enough people buying from scalpers

[@kerolokerokerolo]

No way. Are you actually telling me there wasn't a cardboard shortage? Can't believe it, impossible!!

[@Skips531]

Hear me out, what if he just said that publicly to induce *fake fomo* but they really printed a ton due to it being a property which would obviously have a ton of demand. There’s no way they only printed a small amount of this product with this kind of property featured and Disney as well potentially pressuring for sales

[@nickschonberger8340]

What’s the difference between printing a secret lair drop in scarcity, and printing a limited run of serialized cards?

[@ajh22895]

Serialized cards can still be played as the regular version. I have an Ezuri, Claw of Progress and my brother has a serialized Ezuri, Claw of Progress.

[@DuckStuffer]

8:38 but they already created the Fear of Missing Out, card # 136 of the Duskmourn main set. 👺

[@coldshoulder8550]

Lets be real that card should be the new mascot of WOTC.

[@DuckStuffer]

@@coldshoulder8550 either that or Loot, the Key to Everything

[@PabloEder]

At 8:30 what they mean is: we will make enough units that it sells out in a day. They probably discovered that if it doesn't sell out in a week, it takes weeks or months to sell out. I did a lot of this type of work and most of the sales happened in the first 24 hours of the lifespan of a sale. So I can see why it isn't very attractive to sell something at quantities for 72+ hours. What's strange is that they can't admit that this is a luxury product, and if it is, then it's really bothersome that they are making cards that only exist in the luxury side. The best thing we can do is vote with our wallets, if we don't want this.

[@mindmagemethin1550]

I can decide between whether Hasbro is choking the golden goose again or is fleecing us like a schoolyard bully.

[@davidcardoso3525]

Por que no los dos?

[@KyonV13]

Who's this "us"? Wizards hasn't gotten my money in YEARS.

[@mechazard9883]

I thought we were getting a full marvel set ala lord of the rings. Are you telling me these are exclusive for the secret lair drop??

[@uchiha2014]

No we are getting a full set and a spiderman set

[@printingproxies]

And sir, that is why we're thriving with MTG community :)

[@KotaAvacyn]

My whole playgroup uses this company they’re awesome! Proxies ftw!

[@printingproxies]

@@KotaAvacyn yay!

[@Kolorado]

Let's proxy to demand then :)

[@thiccboicory9964]

Already do I normally never buy real cards anymore.

[@printingproxies]

yessir

[@thiccboicory9964]

@@printingproxies thanks to mtg print im able to play the game with out proxys I would be playing starter decks.

[@Mirthful_Midori]

This is my argument against people claiming cards need to be cheap. They already are. You just need a decent printer.

[@thiccboicory9964]

@@Mirthful_Midori ya wizards them selfs sold us proxies lol

[@XmortoxX1990]

To the surprise of NO ONE! If I can't get my copy of Storm, I'll play for a high-quality proxy.

[@Nick-82]

This might just be the first time i proxy cards. Kinda dont want to give them my money for a while now

[@Nightly97]

What they do in most other card games is have a “first edition” for collectors to get their hands on. Then additional prints of the card are cheaper and produced more. They could easily do this with secret lairs. Have a FIRST EDITION secret lair that sells out instantly and has a special stamp on it or something. Maybe make them serialized since there’s always a finite amount. Then reprint them immediately without the serialized print or stamp.

[@EmrakulTorn]

2:46 how are you a nerd on the internet and not know who Hatsune Miku is?

[@gabrielmercier794]

Well i still dont realy know what it is xd

[@musashishinmen4286]

Not everyone likes Japanese culture, much less anime otaku culture.

[@scribarterus]

You know things are going sideways when a pretty fun loving channel turns to commentary on the current climate of the game.

[@yummytea19]

I thought secret lairs are supposed to be limited-print and print-to-order products? Doesn't that mean that there WILL be scarcity if no one orders more?

[@MitchT97]

My only wish I could ever make is that Hasbro goes under and WotC being free of them takes it as a message to be better. They’re not as prominent as they used to be in my opinion and eventually will kill their own brands off even if it is MTG or D&D.

[@KotaAvacyn]

Could pay the money or deal with fomo OR Do neither and proxy them! One of the best things about proxying or printing them yourself is there’s never any manufactured shortages to produce a sense of “FOMO” to pressure you to buy cards! Everything’s always available and it’s all the same price.

[@Astralfirework]

If there were proper proxy makers, I would spend money with them. Most of what I find is on Etsy, and cottage-core levels of sickeningly cute. Hard pass.

[@KotaAvacyn]

@@Astralfirework I assume my original response was removed because I posted a link but If you’ve had bad experiences in the past that’s fair. I respect your opinion. My play group and I have had really good luck with the “printing proxies” site. They’ve been awesome and really high quality.

[@pnwprospecting]

At this point, the only reason why I would even try to get one at the release would be to just resell it

[@nickd6303]

I can realistically see people being angry about the limited supply of the marvel lairs. By not doing the print to demand model it's essentially passing up on potential profits, but now it looks like they're just sitting on the supply of the unsold lairs.

[@ForgottenForce]

I’ll never understand artificial scarcity as a sales tactic. Like you’re bound to sell more with a print to order, the only thing artificial scarcity does is lock people who want to buy it out of buying it. My buddy wanted one of the recent secret lairs but by the time he got off work it was sold out.

[@markisedaniels7173]

Not Surprised

[@MageSkeleton]

i miss when the system was "pre-order" and i really didn't care how long it would take for my order to get to me but knowing that whatever i want to get i can get. it's kinda "kamic justice" to just ignore the SECRET LAIR products even exist since they went to the new "limited stock" model as they're only selling to scalpers at this point. And while the scalpers are being "played" the SECRET LAIR product is simultaneously still actually moving for them.

[@tristansloan9451]

I’m just confused as to why they don’t keep them print to demand. Wouldn’t they make more money if it was instead of limited quantity sold? It’s making the secondary market really hard for people to pick up certain ones because of the fomo and price spikes. If I’m not able to get one then I’ll happily proxy instead of paying an arm and leg from a secondary seller that potentially scalped a handful of them

[@RadishDoctor]

The fact Iron Man isn't using Energy pretty much confirms to me that even with the attempt to bring Energy to relevance with Fallout and MH3 that it's a totally dead theme. Also why isn't he an Artificer that's literally all he does

[@TheKensta88]

This is fine, I'll just proxy anything I want to play with and not give them a dime.

[@yungo1rst]

i often hear from various lgs that they can never get more than a handful of the secret lairs.

[@TheChevLss]

Bought the Frazetta drop, cards arrived 4 weeks later. Seemed fast to me. This feels fomo and made for investors. Proxytown it is.

[@mike44njdevils1]

"Proxy them." I have no issues whatsoever with proxies, however, IF Wizard's is planning on holding sanctioned Commander events....are proxies going to be ok?

[@johanneskaramossov5103]

simple way i think about secret lairs: you buy them for the artwork.. they never are a good deal in any other way-- + again in all casual pots you can usually proxy(unless some stores forbid you to do it there because they want to sell product)

[@jefffu3820]

Fun fact: proxies of Secret Lair cards are just as inexpensive as regular proxies.

[@originalatogscoins]

I have intentionally been buying much less product. And have avoided the Secret Lairs on purpose. Hoping that as others may do the same sales will fall and the company will be forced to make changes. If things are selling. Then they will just keep doing what they are doing.

[@ashetonrodgers9220]

If I ran a company like this, I'd make various at versions. One art would be some fancy thing that'd be limited and collectable ($$$), other arts would be more tame and a bit more bland ($). That way, in a tournament setting, everyone could have access to legit copies of the cards, people could still feel good with collecting, and I'd still get money while keeping the card game going. There's gonna be some flaws with a system like that, nothing is perfect, but at the very least there wouldn't be anything shady happening

[@davidreeves4165]

You literally just described secret lairs

[@Erik-mf5zo]

​@davidreeves4165 idk whether you are a time traveller from the year 2020 or what? But mate that's exactly how they don't do it. It can take a year or more for a unique tournament staple in a secret lair to be reprinted in a normal format. What the comment you're replying to proposed making sure they aren't exclusive unique cards that are chase cards because there's no functional copy, but that are exclusive and unique because of art, flavor and border formatting.

[@ashetonrodgers9220]

​@@davidreeves4165 That's my bad 😅 I thought secret lairs was them making original cards that also had original arts, not taking an established card and then doing different arts 😂 I should also specify however, in my comment I meant more along the lines of effectively different levels of a secret lair. Have a very limited number of arts that won't ever be made again, then have the same cards but with different, less fancy arts come out that would be printed in excess of demand so there would be a lot more. Also reprints of those cards come out every so often to ensure there's always plenty. Again though, that would be if all the cards on the set were new cards, not just new arts on cards that already exist

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

@@davidreeves4165 No he didn't, because not everyone gets them.

[@thatbloxguy5432]

Me getting a Secret Lair has been 0% when they removed print to demand. I could never get time off work to buy cards.

[@Akivaran]

I'm not surprised anymore, WOTC is no longer concerned about making a quality product, they're just trying to create artificial scarcity to drive the prices up for later product. This is a reaction to flooding the market with product that they did a few years ago, which drove prices down.

[@kozad86]

WotC has followed this business model since MTG launched. We have Uncommon, Rare, and Mythic Rare cards for a reason - limit supply of in-demand cards, drive sales. With that in mind, we shouldn't be surprised, SLD is aimed squarely at collectors and will always have limited runs to drive sales and financial value.

[@Erik-mf5zo]

We can fight them on making short run functionally unique cards in sets like this that don't ruin our play experience. The Ikoria alt arts were a perfect example of chase secret lairs nobody minded

[@alexthefae]

This is why i proxy and get singles from stores. Secret lairs are just scapler products now. Havent bought one since i got the lgbt charity one that is some of my favorite art. buy them from an local game store to support them.

[@kerolokerokerolo]

secret lairs have always been that.

[@falkranduhm10]

wait a company told its investors that the product will sell? WHERE are the NEWS ?

[@Spinoguy03]

Not about popularity, it's about scalpers

[@XmortoxX1990]

And normies with several case of FOMO

[@vranthis]

The fact that most of us arnt surprised might be the worst part. Possible we are part of the problem.

[@Limecakeful]

Seemed obvious when they switched from print on demand to limited run, this isn't surprising at all

[@rngsusgodoflootanddraws9147]

Didn't they switch to the print-to-demand model when that special plainswalker box that had Jace the mind sculptor in it and 7 or 8 other walkers sold out before people could click the order button by scalpers and they canceled a ton of orders? Perhaps they should limit the number anyone can buy and see how fast they sell out then. (They wont)

[@neiljones8467]

class action lawsuit sue them for this they are abuse us and we need to put a stop to it.

[@JustaSmilingHedgehog]

I mean you can't even get the most demanded precon commander decks after a day or so without getting scalped.

[@ericbielitz4940]

I mean, Monty Python and Miku secret lairs immediately sold out, and those were simple re-skins. I don't think its a stretch to expect a more popular IP with original cards to sell out. This is an earnings call, he wants to hype up the investors' who are probably not Magic players. No one in the community reasonably believes that these Marvel drops won't sell out.

[@astrocore.]

All I hear is that the set will be a good investment and worthwhile to pick up. Instead of worthless due to overprinting

[@richardmolano5538]

Then the RCC won't be able to say anything when they won't get secret lair

[@MechaSushiX]

Water is wet and the proxies are already on sale, news at 11

[@No1ofConsequence]

I would say "lets all just not buy it" but that doesn't matter because the speculators and scalper bots will basically make sure they sell out.

[@musashishinmen4286]

I say let those "people" buy out all the product. Let those products rot in their storage binders.

[@lillywhatley1583]

These will most likely be reprinted with the same names but different artwork. Seeing as wizards/hasbro said they were doing multiple marvel sets

[@blackslashmail]

Shocking, I know

[@ricky7326]

We need to treat Secret Lair the same way we treated the OGL in D&D. Send a message

[@nickclemitus4598]

Not surprised. Namco does the same thing with their Gundam models. Every model is a limited model count.

[@SilverionX]

Wolverine looks like a fun commander, but I don't think I'll even get a chance to buy this set from the looks of it.

[@Seedmember]

They literally printed a card called FOMO, you think it wouldn't be one of their main policies?

[@marcoottina654]

Part of the Secret Lair decline, I GUESS, it's strongly linked to the print of brand new cards on them, rather than just reprints and re-skins. I totally understand those people that rage-quit buying SL ..

[@Infernoblade1010]

I've been saying it all along, about time they admit it their market manipulation, though they've always claimed they don't worry about the secondary market.

[@chrisfloto3599]

These are all reprints so it doesn’t affect the game play. Probably actually makes it cheaper. They way over printed from 2020 to 2023 so if they actually make something rare good.

[@MR-hk2qu]

I'm still waiting for the DnD Movie universes within Reprint.

[@krakknish4722]

Proxy everything!! Proxy commanders, proxy dual lands, proxy the world!!!!

[@sorren001]

Omg a company is promising their shareholders that they are going to make that is crazy! Almost like they are trying to keep shareholders happy or something! Unacceptable

[@Arctanis-vt3hl]

Definitely unacceptable. Shareholders ruin companies because they don't give a shit about the employees of said company or the health of it. They just want ROI at any cost. Capitalism getting exposed by greed again.

[@TheKennyGM]

how does a product sells out before release? x'D

[@endersblade]

Well, yeah. Scalpers are going to instantly buy them out, and then give them a 10,000% markup.

[@garryame4008]

It's a bummer that publicly traded corporations inevitably devolve to ens***ification. I hate seeing the proliferation of sighted anti-consumer practices across the hobbies I enjoy :(

[@thomasantonellos6014]

Wouldn’t they make more money if it was print to demand? Crazy

[@Magikarp_king]

In other news water is wet and the sun is a ball of fire. I'll enjoy my proxies of the marvel cards.

[@jaysuede2627]

I love how the CEO is cast like some sort of sorcerer. As though each and every Secret Lair hasn't been completely snarled and sold out practically instantly. MBAs think they're so clever...

[@AaronJuddMusic]

I'm confused....Didn't hasbro say they were doing limited runs? This is not news to me and I am not super active in WOTC drama.... Did you really not know this?

[@MrLimeyisagod]

Hot take: they sell out of these then make them the commanders of the commander decks that come out when the set releases😅

[@darthbane4555]

We know? How hard could it be to print more cards

[@RetailFox]

Well I was going to try to get at least one of these, but if they're going to sell out immediately because of market manipulation like this, I may as well not even try. Everyone else might rush to guarantee they get one of these, but I'm good. I'll just hand-write my own proxy if it comes down to it.

[@MrRomanrin]

I REALLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS "FOMO"... wouldnt it be BETTER to sell more copies? than just "some" and immediately sell out ?

[@palicaoo]

I mean... did anybody had any doubt?

[@Kantharr]

The FOMO Secret Lair I would not buy, but the Print on Demand cards like the Secret Lair Extra Life I'll definitely buy since those are at least going to a good charity.

[@Don.Carnage]

Yeah we already knew that. They're pretty upfront about that.

[@LoneSkag]

Easy fix. Let them sell the lairs for a month(maybe 2 weeks) and close it. Print only what was ordered.

[@pyrotempestwing]

There’s a “Disney Vault” reference in there somewhere…

[@zombiemanjosh]

Whaaaat!? Hasbro and WotC thinking of and treating their customers as extortable piggy banks. Oh wow, how shocking, I didn't think either of these companies was evil based on their prior actions and circle of business associates.

[@mobiusstorm9768]

Anyone wanna take odds on Storm, Force of Nature being banned if she ends up being stupidly broken?

[@sandroabate]

Newsflash: evil company is doing evil shit. More at 11.

[@baihai]

As a content creator, I dun think u should be advocating proxies, if players dun play with real cards, the coy dun find it profitable, they decided to end printing the physical product, where will be your value?

[@SporeTres]

Yea Im waiting for a Marneus Calgar reprint...dont worry it's only been about 2,5 years now.

[@NoMercyFtw]

And This is why I stopped buying every single single secret lair and now only by the ones that I really really want, and if it makes me do something shouldn't have to do then I'll just go without, and the universe is within cards are always super rare in the packs especially The Walking Dead ones they were extremely rare to pull

[@Darth_Sithis]

Ironically, saying it’s going to immediately sell out and other people FOMO, just makes it less attractive. I wouldn’t mind grabbing one or two of these specific ones. But if it’s going to immediately be gone, why bother trying. Hasbro isn’t going to catch waiting up for it.

[@niyderrein7059]

I realy cannot understand that people that are into Trading cards are upset by this. And by the way this are mostly official proxies

[@michaelpenn8480]

Wotc, We as the Commander community and your s source of money will now ignore your rules and regulations for any and all formats that yall are making the rules for. Clearly you don't have the well-being of your customers in mind as to keep us customers. All rules and bans handed down will be approved by us if the COMMUNITY agrees or not of whatever yall put on the stack . We hold the counterspell. I submit each play group vote on each problematic card. For tournaments each participant votes on the "post wotc" bans and or rules and majority rules. God bless you and yours Thank yall, The New Commander Community

[@wildstarr]

Can someone explain why a company would do this? The number one goal of a company is to make money. Why would a company limit their ability to make money? I don't doubt for one minute Hasbro would make a couple, if not more, million additional dollars if this was not limited.

[@linguaphile9415]

Maybe it's better to wait for these cards to be offered on the secondary market. I wanted to buy the Iron Man Secret Lair (I have never bought a Secret Lair before), but after hearing how they plan to annoy their customers with manufactured scarcity I'm out. Edit:You persuaded me. I'll just leave it.

[@tirandeshibaraki743]

Once I get my printer to work... it's going to print some proxies cuz there's decks I wanna play and dun wanna spend money on this game anymore if I can help it.

[@ceepuck1511]

the sad truth is for most of it's history Magic has been a collectible first, and a game 2nd and the gap between the two has just widened and gotten worse over the years as Wizards has exploited the collectible side more and more

[@kennethjames4915]

None of this really seems like news, seemed super obvious SLD cards are scarce on purpose no difference than the scarcity of a mythic fractured foil in a collectors pack.

[@silentknight9356]

Is it just me or is it incredibly stupid to short supply a product when selling more means more revenue