HATE First Impressions Review

[@Prettykitty7890]

Thanks for sharing! I am glad you made a point about the fun factor with this game. I fear many have given it a pass based on the name and art (which i love btw, ❤Adrian Smith). I am even more excited to get playing after you mentioned Blood Rage! Ok, back to painting 120+ minis. 😮

[@TheKingofAverage]

I don't think you'll be disappointed :) I agree about the theme and people so focused on that! I seemed to be the only one discussing the gameplay during the KS lol.

[@shockway1]

I really like your enthusiasm and how well you described everything. I could easily envision the things and moments you were describing. You've gained a subscriber. :)

[@TheKingofAverage]

Thanks Shock I'm really glad to hear you enjoyed it :)

[@bobsmith-jj1we]

Glad you liked it. My biggest minus is that box is too big for the bookcases so it is sitting on the floor. I got everything apart from the 3D terrains (I did not want to carry extra stuff with me if playing somewhere else) and the extra battleground add-on (don't need a third skirmish). Other minus is that the minis look too awesome for me to paint them but still too awesome not to be painted :(. I have zero experience painting and don't want to ruin them so I have to start painting other minis before.

[@TheKingofAverage]

I think you'll surprise yourself with what you can accomplish painting wise :) I'm only average myself after all ;) As for the box, yeah it's huge! I have it in top of the shelf. That being said, wish there was room in it for my expansions :D

[@liesureleeminis8268]

Grab a bunch of reaper bones to practice on first, and look up tutorials

[@bobsmith-jj1we]

thanks Robert will do

[@kevinsmallwood8584]

I own it, but never played it. My problem is that I backed thinking it was a 4-player game. It is, but the skirmishes are just 2-player. So, it seems that the other 2 players just sit back and watch. But from your description, maybe these battles go quickly, so people are just watching for very long? I have never seen this played here on KZbin with more than just 2 players. Does it go quickly enough that the other 2 players are not bored to tears watching the battling tribes? Should I get it out and try playing it with my >2-player gaming group? I appreciate comments from any players who have played this with more than 2 players at a time. Thanks!

[@johnsmith3085]

Thanks for this! Do the sleeves seem like they'll take multiple in and out of cards without splitting?

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yes most definitely, very durable sleeves.

[@yuarthur455]

Hi, are the tribes balanced against each other? I’ve heard that some scenarios are unbalanced?

[@TheKingofAverage]

Mostly I'd say yes with a caveat: You pick the scenarios so 100% you're gong to pick the one you feel you have a good chance of winning. That goes both ways of course. Often, there are times where you aren't even wanting to "win" - for instance you'll select the mercenary scenario without even wanting the mercenary, but the wood or food or whatever on the map. One of the interesting bits is how you are only as winning as your lowest resource. Makes it not always strictly about just killing the enemy. Also thanks to it being a campaign game, you can play the long game too. If you are struggling against an opponent just focus on killing the 1-2 troublesome units. Even if you lose the scenario they'll be in worse shape next time you fight them.

[@yuarthur455]

@@TheKingofAverage ah I see! Thank you for the detailed reply, this game seems to have a bad reputation, as I ask questions on Reddit, a lot of answer I got are just overall complain about this game lol. I’ve read that one of the problem with the rule is that you can choose to wound yet not kill your enemy’s warrior, that way your enemy will have a team of weak roster, is that a thing you encounter? Should I try to house rule it to make the game experience less toxic ?

[@nighthunterz00z45]

This video came up on my feed. You are wearing a RED shirt in the thumbnail! That’s awesome. I got to meet them at Atlanta Fest back when they released their first album!

[@TheKingofAverage]

Nice! They are great! Heard Breathe Into Me and have been hooked ever since :D Funny story, I bought their first CD based on the album art alone, only time I ever did that.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Another sleeper hit by CMON and so far one of the top 2019 games! Did you back HATE? Why or why not?

[@yuarthur455]

The King of Average hi may I ask where will claustrophobia 1643 rank on this list ?

[@TheKingofAverage]

@@yuarthur455 I'll need to play more of both. Right now it's almost neck and neck. Both are 2 player games that have simple game mechanics that are elegantly tied to theme.

[@yuarthur455]

The King of Average thanks for replying as always, what about both games replaybility, saw someone said after playing claustrophobia he rather play decent for its more light and quick

[@TheKingofAverage]

Claustrophobia is far might light and quick compared to Descent - I can only assume that's what he meant? Huge fan of Descent 2E here :D Both are replayable but I'd argue HATE probably more so because of the amount of tribes and upgrades. Claustrophobia comes with far more "content" though in that it's 20+ scenarios which are all unique.

[@yuarthur455]

The King of Average never play descent before so I might be the one that’s confused, thanks for the clarification!!!

[@WeAreSoPredictable]

I've only had a chance to play it once, but everything you said matched how I felt, especially about the first game being the weakest, least fun experience. For the first half of the game it just seemed like a really shallow game, due to the very simple - almost simplistic - stats and mechanics. But about halfway through that first game I started to see the pieces fall into place, and a little of the where the depth was starting to show. Then, at the conclusion of that first game, when the upgrades, wounds, and post-game consequences of captured units kicked in, it became clear that it was another Blood Bowl or Necromunda or such (yeah, I'm a bit old-school), where things just get deeper and more interesting, and your investment in your team/gang/tribe makes for a great long-term incentive to play and swap stories. We didn't have any noteworthy issues with the board folds. I did, however, personally find the 3-D terrain to be a real pain. The way it didn't interlock properly, and figures were hard to place centrally on their square with the markers around them and such was rather fiddly. I think I'd actually prefer playing with the cardboard terrain, even if the visual flair gets lots in the process. So, quality-wise, I personally feel the 3-D terrain was a let-down, but otherwise everything is fantastic, and I'm rather sad I don't have a copy personally. Definitely one of the best value kickstarters around, I think. Great first impressions video, by the way.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Ah interesting, thanks for sharing! :) You bring up a good point about the tiles. If the space between the raised squares was smaller I think they could fit better, but I imagine they are spaced the way they are to help them sit on top of each other. A tough nut to crack for sure. Totally agree with the game ramping up in complexity and enjoyment with first play. Have really enjoyed making my tribe into something unique, and enjoy going after my opponents "nice" minis. The meta is great as well! Just last game I had a warrior survive a Prince attack twice! I was sure to reward him with an upgrade at the end :D

[@WeAreSoPredictable]

@@TheKingofAverage Hehe. "You did well; you get an upgrade, instead of us eating your leg" :)

[@TheKingofAverage]

Hahaha. My opponent got to eat his hand that was falling off. I lost my arm and got a scar but I fully believe should have gotten w food as well :D

[@donfield9446]

I like the fact your from ID. It shows me that there are fandom like people out there like you. Yes, you do a really good job presenting the game.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Thanks! And yes for sure, the Boise area is actually HUGE into board games. We have over a dozen game stores and even a Warhammer store here :D

[@locustatv]

@The King of Average To help figure out where each miniature goes back into the clear trays, you could try painting a coloured dot above or below that minis spot that matches their base. It will work on the smaller trays, but as for the mercenaries and prince’s... not sure what to do there. I dunno haha.

[@TheKingofAverage]

That's not a terrible idea. For Rising Sun I actually ended up writing the number in the tray of each mini. I'd prefer this not to be left up to me though :D

[@Aodyri]

All of the tribes are layed out the same in the trays though. All yellow youngbloods are in a column, all purple warriors, etc. All figures of one tribe are on one row. So as long as you remember where even one mini from a tribe goes, you can put all of them back in under a minute.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Ah well that's good for the tribes at least :D Expansions and princes/mercenaries are a different matter though. Regardless as I said, teardown still goes quick. But other companies have improved upon what CMON has been doing with their storage solution for several years now and so I stand by my comment that it could be improved :) A sheet underneath the tray showing all the minis there would cost them very little and would help, especially when there is a larger multiplayer game going on with more minis missing (such as an entire tray).

[@Aodyri]

@@TheKingofAverage Oh yeah, that would be magnificient.

[@jamesthompson6652]

There is a number on the bottom of each base that matches their space on the bottom of the mini box.

[@TheKingofAverage]

there are numbers on the clear tray?

[@jamesthompson6652]

The brown boxes

[@willyum3108]

We couldn't help but see the similarities with Arcadia Quest, but still much different. PVP, PVE objectives, dice chucking with swords and shields, upgrading your dudes inbetween campaign scenarios. I always thought of AQ as more of a skirmish than a dungeon crawl. Hate is a great extension of that style of game for me and my boys as they are now getting older.

[@TheKingofAverage]

I've not played AQ sadly :P Starcadia will be my first :) That's really awesome that you get to enjoy it with your sons!

[@willyum3108]

Your wife and daughter might enjoy Starcadia. I hope you get the same dice chucking family fun as we did with AQ.

[@willyum3108]

I would add that my youngest son has gotten very good at Hate in the short time we've played it. I have no doubt that is due to his experience with AQ. I wonder how Starcadia will change that dynamic having a team of 2 instead of 3. If I remember correctly, you only have 2 instead of a party of 3.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Hoping we do as well! Will be fun to paint all those bright colors as well :S

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yeah just 2 for Starcadia. I'll let you in on a secret: I've yet to win a battle in HATE lol. I need all the practice I can get!

[@francoislatulippe7183]

Under the unit boxes, there are shadows so that you know where to place them back in the trays btw. Great review, cant wsit for my brother to have time to start a chronicle!

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yeah I referenced that to the pizza box thing :) Gotta take both trays out, flip the box over and then play match the shape game. Would much prefer a simple sheet underneath each tray :D You tell your brother to hurry up! It's a blast to play with lots of funny moments :D

[@francoislatulippe7183]

@@TheKingofAverage Well, my brother wasn't available over the weekend and I had to scratch the gaming hitch, so my wife was kind enough to learn the game and play with me even if she dislikes board games in general. I think I tutored her a bit too well. We started a clash and, for now, she is insanely beating my ass having won our first 2 battles ratter easily. I managed to "win" (quote on quote) our last scenario by the skin of my teeth. Playing a mercenary scenario with Rash'Narr, we had some trouble figuring out how some mercenary cards played out. The battle lasted 3 hours and ended with me doing a relay run with the body of Rash'Narr while her Prince was mowing down my relay runners one by one until she ran out of Reactivation and I could still reactivate my shaman one last time to throw the merc outside the map (for capture). Since this was the last round and she had no more savagery, I would've lost the scenario and the mercenary if I did not manage to capture it officially at that very moment. It was nerve wrecking! Only had my a youngblood and my shaman surviving the onslaught. So, she ended gaining somewhere around 13 Hate and 10 Resources from all this, and I gained a Merc and territory and a LOT of scars to deal with. Hope the Merc will be worth it. Can't wait to do my first underdog mission next battle -_- cause now she got double my amount of Hate/Resources. Like you said, there's great moments to be had in this game. She is a bit worried about the actual length of the game at this point because last night battle (not even clash) took us 3 hours, so we had to stop to go to bed way latter than we hoped. The game clearly becomes better as time pass, but it's already hard, after three battles, to know which warrior can do what. I hope we will get use to to it and play a bit faster from now on.

[@TheKingofAverage]

I bet you'll get a lot faster over time. After playing 8 battles now I can safely say that you get much more used to your units and how they work within the various rules :) Also, underdog missions are awesome! They provide a ton of resources that really help :)

[@RobertAFritzsche]

Super jealous the Midwest is in endless winter mode. Is the game strictly two player or was there some multiplayer variant rules?

[@TheKingofAverage]

There are several scenarios (4 I believe) that are either 2v2, 2v1 or free for all. Hope it warms up for you!

[@arakuss1]

2 of my friends backed it so despite the nice miniatures I opted out. As far as skirmish games it just seems to contained on the small board. Maybe it's me I would rather a board less skirmish mini game. But I am sure I will play it since both friends bought it.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Hey no worries, it's all nice to have friends that buy this stuff! :P In my group it's just me buying it all lol. There are some scenarios you only play on the plateaus which is kind of cool :) Without a grid based board you are stuck with measuring which is great don't get me wrong, but wouldn't fit the flow of this game well.

[@82HorsePower]

Love the video thumbnail! Didn't back this game (can't back them all) - but looks like those who did will be happy with it.

[@TheKingofAverage]

hehe, thanks! :D That is always a bummer when we have to pick and choose what we can and can't back :( Just had to make that decision yesterday with the games on offer now.

[@j-rod4600]

Sounds like a game I'd really enjoy. Unfortunately I wasn't using kickstarter at the time it was on. I may have to find someone who backed it and make a new best friend.

[@TheKingofAverage]

haha best of luck! I missed out on some greats before I started really using KS. There's always something exciting on the horizon though :)

[@marvart]

Like the game a lot. Attacker seems to win more than defender, but, there has been some close ones, especially when attacker is missing shaman or champion for a battle.

[@TheKingofAverage]

The last battle we fought was all down to 1 turn, and even then only because my Youngblood didn't pull through :( Some missions perhaps seem easier than others for the attacker, however other strategies may work better than others. Have you played the exploding fungus scenario yet? That one is a riot :D

[@marvart]

@@TheKingofAverage Yes...i have. The one that seems to KO so many characters is King of the Hill, we hardly push and it ends up only having 5 characters standing in the end, massive scar phase.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Hah! We just played that one today :D I killed more people via the push than anything :D Death count was 6 for him, 5 for me.

[@mersion3712]

Thanks for the review, How does HATE hold up for you today?

[@sds802]

wishing they had put the plastic holder for the cardboard in core box as the battle box has it and makes organizing the box VERY easy.

[@TheKingofAverage]

oooh does it? Yeah that'd be way useful! As it stands I'm literally keeping the tokens in their original cardboard trays lol

[@sds802]

@@TheKingofAverage yes and i can send you a pic... later

[@sds802]

hmm maybe you cant send photos to youtube for comment?

[@sds802]

i guess just look for an unboxing video of the battlegrounds of hate and see what i mean if you didnt back a copy for a 3, 5 or 6 player game

[@TheKingofAverage]

Will do!

[@andrehas82]

I will forever hate myself for sitting out on this campaign. Thankfully, due to ebay, I could still get this, but still bummed that I didn't back when I had the chance!

[@TheKingofAverage]

You can get all of Season 1 again on June 4th for their second KS ;)

[@andrehas82]

​ The King of Average Thanks for the tip, Ill be sure to get me all the expansions that's now out for 3-4 times their initial price on ebay! Luckily I got my hands on the core box for just about the kickstarter price a while back.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Ohhhh nice! Then you won't have to wait a year to play ;)

[@TheKingofAverage]

Ah! I have led you astray :D I didn't realize this was on a HATE video :P no Idea if CMON is planning to release these again .

[@andrehas82]

​ The King of Average Hah, no problem. Would be nice to get a good discount though, but enough wait and Ill get a reasonable price for those expansions:)

[@niederman]

I didn't back only because of the little trailer video thing on the Kickstarter The game looked great, the minis looked great, but the presentation felt like they were cussing and being "adult" as like, a gimmick or something It felt off Like, kingdom death is as adult as it gets, and they didn't just cuss or whatever for the hell of it, it was all building the world I dunno, Hate just felt like they were forcing it, turned me off big time

[@TheKingofAverage]

I can safely say the actual game is not like that. I had actually forgotten all about that trailer! Haha yeah it was pretty cheesy 😆

[@Straddllw]

They have a picture of where every piece goes on the brown cardboard boxes. You might have thrown them away.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Nah I comment how it's on the bottom and joke about putting it on the bottom of a pizza box in the video :) I'd still much prefer an image of the mini underneath each tray. Wouldn't cost much and would help a ton, especially if a whole tray's minis were taken out.

[@PeterSikachev]

It's wonderful weather here in Montreal, with 26F/-3C day and 16F/-9C night!

[@TheKingofAverage]

That's cold! :D I'm a warm weather person hehe. Appreciate the conversion btw ;) But, if it's nice and sunny out then that sounds like a fantastic late winter/early spring day :)

[@PeterSikachev]

Still better than -20C a couple of weeks ago :) Hope we get spring this year: usually, there are no demi-seasons in Montreal, you got to swap your parka to shorts right away (and heating bill to an AC bill, respectively)

[@TheKingofAverage]

hah yeah I understand that! One of the reasons I actually like where I live is because we definitely have spring and fall and the cool morning and nights are AWESOME :D I went to college in Oklahoma and it was as you describe, crazy 60 degree (F) shifts in temperature over night where it'd actually warm up over night lol. It was either 100+ or down to -15. No thank you! :D

[@PeterSikachev]

Where do you live now? Oklahoma seems to compare to Montreal like Winterfell to Castle Black :-D I was hoping that at least summers would be cool over here, but no.

[@TheKingofAverage]

hehe yeah sounds like a place with more "extreme weather" vs. mild. I live in Idaho and it's certainly mild weather. No bad storms, moderadtely cold (will dip to -6 a couple days a year, will rise to >110 for about 2-3 weeks out of the year. Because Oklahoma is in the plains here, there are very high winds so tomorrow's weather is 2 states away, and the 5 day forcast can't even be accurately estimated there. Here in Idaho a farmer's almanac will get you pretty close to what the weather will be like any given year :D I actually grew up in Mississippi as a kid where it was ONLY summer. Winter meant 70F there on the beach :) Any place called Castle Black just sounds cool :D

[@djtoddpharris9565]

Unfortunately I didnt back this, wish I had but, can't have all of em'!

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yeah that is always a bummer but rules we all live by :)

[@BLDTHEGAMER]

Are you still playing? Do you still own it?

[@TheKingofAverage]

Yes and yes. we bring this out still to a fair degree. The one issue with continued play is it's focus on being a short campaign. It's great and wonderful, but means you don't really have quick "one offs" with it if that makes sense :)

[@BLDTHEGAMER]

Yes it makes sense. Thank you for the reply.

[@shocknawe]

Hey mate. How has this game held up for you? I’m thinking about getting it, but it’s a bit pricey. Cheers!

[@OPMDK]

FYI boardgame co recommended you so here I am!

[@TheKingofAverage]

Welcome Jason! :) Happy to have you here. Hope you like my videos :D

[@TheDarkIntellect]

So I'm watching this video at a friend's and your Final Fantasy Tactics disc nailed to the wall is distracting me. Why would you do that to a disc, isn't there a jewel case you can put it in?

[@TheDarkIntellect]

Also want to add that I know what OCD feels like.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Hah! It's scratched up pretty bad, and is actually hooked up with some sticky tac :) loved that game!

[@polischristodoulou4357]

There are many mistakes on the game,i think it hasnt been tested enough

[@SixPhilippe]

Great review

[@TheKingofAverage]

Thanks! Glad you liked it :)

[@eriksjogren800]

Thanks

[@TheKingofAverage]

You are very welcome Erik!

[@Jcaeser187]

I just ordered HATE off ebay for 180 bucks

[@TheKingofAverage]

Hey that's not bad AT ALL! Good find there :D I assume that's just the core box but that is 90% of the content anyway :D

[@Jcaeser187]

@@TheKingofAverage I think it's the full $120 kickstarter pledge. I'll pick up the mother prophesy once I paint some of these.

[@TheKingofAverage]

NICE!

[@Prettykitty7890]

A great deal man. I made the mistake of not going "all in" on this and only got MP and 1 each of the 3d terrain. After getting my pledge and seeing how great this project turned out, I have already bought 2 of the extra tribes off of ebay and plan to get the 3rd as well.

[@TheKingofAverage]

Smart move :D From looking at the scenarios, 1 copy of each 3D terrain is in fact enough for them all so that should be good at least :)