Have Italy rugby finally turned the corner | The Breakdown

[@Gilescowdemdem]

Connor O'shea deserves so much credit for setting up the youth systems and bringing players trough u20 level. So stoked to see the state of rugby in Italy improving every game.

[@larst560]

So true 👍

[@grahamglendinning2451]

Steve Aboud worked for years on pathways and academies. Unfortunately they have just dismantled it all, just as it was bearing fruit, as the Treviso and Zebre teams wanted greater control.

[@sarahjackson1860]

There’s lots of people commenting that Wales played badly, but Italy didn’t let them play well. The Italian defence and kicking were superb and for once, they didn’t fade after 50 minutes. As an England fan, I know how difficult it is to win in Wales, who were, let’s not forget, the defending 6 nations champions. As for Italy’s place, Nobody in a position of authority has ever seriously considered dropping Italy from the 6 Nations. A few mischievous journalists writing articles to get attention or ex-players trying to stay relevant perhaps (who’ll now shut up for a few years thankfully) but as long as they’re not losing by 100 points each week and attracting poor crowds, they’re in it for good. They’ve gone through a difficult period for sure, but with the Wales result and their U20s doing well, the future looks good. There’s nothing wrong with having a perennial underdog and everyone’s second favourite team either. The Wales-Italy game was a dead rubber, but for me, ended up as one of the games of the tournament. South Africa and/or Georgia may be added, (there’s two vacant weeks in the tournament already) but they won’t replace Italy. Money talks too and Italy are still filling stadiums home and away and the money men/Unions/broadcasters won’t want to lose the extra games. England v Italy for example, may be one sided more often than not, but the RFU make £10 million out of the game. Interestingly, Italy’s game in Cardiff attracted a bigger crowd (67k), than the game against France (63k). There’s also the fact that Rome is a great place to have on the 6 Nations itinerary and Tbilisi can’t compete. Indeed, a third of Georgia is currently out of government control and the country remains politically unstable.

[@sarahjackson1860]

@Ashley Francis Yes, i am for real. You play as well as the opposition let you.

[@sarahjackson1860]

@@franco-pk9fn One thing that won’t happen is a return to a 5 Nations tournament. Money talks and they won’t want to lose the revenue the 5 extra games bring. How much money did the 5 Italian games bring in for the Unions this season? £25-30 million i’d guess. Could be more. Neither will they want to lose the symmetry a 6th team brings and go back to the old tournament format where someone sat out every match weekend.

[@benjicool2808]

Tbilisi is a great city, but no cheap Ryanair flights and its also a good 4 hours away

[@galinor7]

From world number one to a defeat by Italy and finishing fifth in one coach. Wales were toilet.

[@shane-irish]

Sorry i dont have 2 weeks to spare to read this

[@perthpullers9761]

As a South African, I’m so happy for Italy! I hope this keeps the springboks, away from joining the 6 nations, as I believe Italy deserve to be there, and we don’t. 🇮🇹🇿🇦 👌🏽

[@vincenthickey9760]

Viva Italia. Congratulations from Ireland

[@vnnxyz1473]

John Kirwan we miss you here in Italy; you're one of us ! Big Respect to a great Alll Black ! Italy deserve to be in the Six Nations; point ! Italy deserve to be in the 6 Nations ; point! How many matches Scotland lost when it was 5 nations? South Africa? Why not All Balcks as well? lol The 6 Nations is a European Tournment; and again...Italy deserves to be in it!

[@hencoharmse8757]

Europeans for European rugby hey? Strange how none of you kicks up a fuss when Stander played for Ireland, Willemse for France or half the bloody Scotland team is South African...

[@patrickmccutcheon9361]

Tbf to Scotland they won the last 5 nations and throughout the 1990s last decade of 5N Ireland and Wales were the whipping boys competing for the wooden spoon.

[@qcsorter4626]

Great to see the Italian U20 team doing so well.

[@oniriq17]

GRAZIE JOHN! Do you remember when you said : "Italians have to play rugby as they drive." ? Come on "dobbiamo ballare" ! ahhaha THANK YOU so much John.

[@TheMikethoth]

I'm a Welshman, I know I know, someone has to be a fan but Im gutted but at the same time it's wonderful. I'm the kind of fan who realises that we have a responsibility to grow and promote the game we love so much and Italy winning like that is fantastic for the game. Now All Blacks, if you could now please lose to Wales next time you play to promote the game then I'll be a relatively happy fan. 😂😂😂.

[@nevergiveupiannialfo5243]

Grande John sei il migliore ,grande!

[@Orion3741]

Ange Capuozzo has a bright future provided he stays fit and injury-free. The national ( Italy ) record for the most test tries scored is held by Marcello Cuttitta : 25

[@allexflanker]

Dobbiamo ballare FIOI :-)

[@markwillies4330]

Let's hope Italy can pull their finger out their arse and keep going. The No 15 looks a really good bet for the future. As a South African let's stop the nonsense about us joining the 6 Nations.Its a European competition for goodness sake. We have a southern hemisphere cup already.

[@vnnxyz1473]

Correct! The 6 Nations is a European Tournment; and again...Italy deserves to be in it! How many games Scotland lost when it was 5 Nations Tournment? Noone spitted to get them out...The ones who wants Italy out...are racists!

[@westsideAUKILANI]

@@vnnxyz1473 racists? Nah bud. 1 game in 7 years would be the measuring stick.

[@bunnychowmuncher]

@@vnnxyz1473 What's it got to do with racism LOL? Actually blocking South Africa in favour for Italy is technically racist when you look at the makeup of the teams if this is the game you want to play. Goodness - get a grip - its about winning and losing and stats and nothing else!

[@pistons2419]

@@bunnychowmuncher But dont forget Italy has beaten Saf in 2016...

[@bunnychowmuncher]

@@pistons2419 So? Once in how many years and times? Where are the two teams ranked today?

[@karambaden]

Not sure what the host is on about when she said the northern hemisphere wanted Italy out and South Africa in. Yes there were question marks over the merit of Italy as opposed to Georgia, but the vast majority of the rugby public outside the media did not want South Africa in the 6 nations.

[@rahowherox1177]

He means the money men at the top want south africa...

[@TappCorporation]

@@rahowherox1177 which ironically would lose them money in the long run

[@rahowherox1177]

@@TappCorporation i agree...

[@brianmcsweeney9401]

What would this lot know about NH rugby...? Oh ye...not much. 🙄

[@patrickmccutcheon9361]

Adding SA to the tournament would make it harder for the current teams to win it!

[@budibausto]

3 All Blacks legends talking enthusiastically about Italy?! I'm overwhelmed. Grazie.

[@peteryoungpeteryoung965]

As a Wales supporter I really want Italy to stay in the 6 N, it does'nt matter that we were really poor, we still scored 3 tries to their one but fair play to Italy, they stuck in there and capitalised on our appauling penalty count and dreadful decision making at the end.

[@dougthedynamo]

As a Scot I hope Italy stay as well, their U20s look very sharp and the clubs are improving as well! From Saturday, I was surprised that Wales turned down penalty chances at goal late on, felt like they ought to have secured the game first (at least make it a 2 score match) then go after the BP.

[@galinor7]

The Wales penalty kicking was embarrassing. Biggar screwd up badly. There are too many old crocks in the Wales side and they are passed it.

[@peteryoungpeteryoung965]

@@galinor7 Biggar played ok all season and was fantastic the week before against France, Martin Johnson reckons he was MOM and gave Ntamak a lesson in stand off play. The only old crocks are AWJ and Jon Davies.

[@Zomo1553]

I honestly don't think any fans actually want them out

[@kurtpunchesthings2411]

Its 2 minutes left in the game and italy kick and im like wtf did they do that for they have the fucking possession then a moment of brilliance I will never forget it on the phone to my dad saying yea there's only 2 minutes left nothing happening here then oh BOY Italian guy goes on an incredible run and gets into into corner one pass bang last second time

[@Fishtail3]

Josh Adams is a legend.

[@yeailikeu]

Yea, great debate thank you guys 👏 and especially thank you so much Sir J.Kirwan: Italians totally love you 🙏

[@richjackson8349]

The international game has long paid the price for not fully embracing the benefits of a truly competitive game at the highest level, its been a closed shop and goes back to when Romania should have joined the 5N in the 1980s. Union has also never truly got to grips with professionalism (especially so in the northern hemisphere), and as a result we still see (27 years on) continual reinvention at club level to make it work. Italy have progressed and have an outstanding U20 team, a great platform for the next few years.

[@beniaminorocchi]

100% agree on the game being a closed shop, but I understand it. At least two of the Home Nations would be ininfluent if not for the 6 nations, opening the game would destroy them. Wales had a monster generation but they're getting old and the underage teams have been dreadful for the last ten years, Scotland never managed to build a production line for young players since professionalism started, and are forced to bring in a huge amount of foreign born players to stay relevant and competitive. If you look at their movement as a whole (especially considering female rugby, where they hardly are competitive), having rugby spread in southern and eastern Europe would be the end of their national movements. I'd personally really like having two 4 nations, one with the Home Unions and the other with Italy, France, Spain and Portugal (maybe call it Mediterranean cup?), that'd be pretty funny to watch. Won't ever happen though

[@ajoutram]

'UK press saying Italians have to go and we wan't the south africans in'!!? I think the sentiment within the majority of the UK rugby community is the exact opposite of this, certainly from the comments I've read!

[@lelav3868]

John Kirwan simpaticissimo!!!! Ahahahahah...

[@bobjames5781]

Josh Adams, top man!

[@mimmopolichetti2057]

I'm Italian and I must reknow that (tough our victory) Italy has to learn and improve still much.The Italian team is not constant in the performances so at the moment I think this is only a Good match .The British teams remain superior.

[@richjackson8349]

Fully fledged Celtic (Cornish) brother here, no way do we want SA in the 6N. It`s a European competition, the debate should be more about a European event including Georgia, Spain etc, every 2 years instead of the 6N, mid-way between RWC`s.

[@williambonsor3915]

No chance I don’t want to South Africa in the 6 Nations and the championship it’s about European countries

[@vnnxyz1473]

Italy deserve to be in ; point! How many matches Scotland lost when it was 5 nations?

[@sail4549]

yeah RSA is already in SANZAAR so they don't need to be in 6N

[@anesumadziyire8726]

Great running by Italy. The defence is alarming

[@maelughran6981]

Italy have had the talent for a looooooonnnnnggg time. Now, hopefully, they've got the belief!

[@icarus877]

Just to let you guys know whilst the press may want Italy out of the 6 nations the fans do not. I also have not met a fan who wants S. Africa in the 6 nations at all - I have not met one individual who thinks this or has put up any reasonable argument for it. Just to let you know when France joined the tournament they did not win a a game for getting on for 20 years

[@rugbydaydreamin]

Brex was outstanding defensively at 13 for all 80. His coffee book tackling is distinguishable from nearly all other 14, if not 29, other players on the pitch. The way he stymies attacks will be invaluable to the Azzuri going forward to and in the World Cup. If you can't clone him then keep him in the squad, wrap him in bubble wrap, and blood another 13. Pronto.

[@denken3225]

Hardly anyone in the UK wants South Africa in the comp.

[@rockybalboap7763]

Id swap padovani for immobile right now would make a great number 9 for azzurri soccer

[@galinor7]

There has been a lot of stupidism under Privac. He has too go.

[@dacehabsburg503]

Gran lavoro di Kieran Crowley per Kirwan,non posso essere che d'accordo con lui

[@moioli7401]

Dobbiamo ballare fioi 😂😂😂

[@MrIncorr3ct]

SA getting into the 6nations was never a thing, and nobody wanted them either.

[@redneckReno]

When are we all gonna stop saying...."yeah,no"....

[@styxman500]

Ital can play in The Revamped Rugby championship when Springboks take their place in 6 Nations

[@Funkopopsstorewalkthroughsunbo]

Cymru am byth 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 as a welsh man very well derserve itaily

[@hencoharmse8757]

Let's not forget that the main reason SA even wants to join the 6 Nations is due to the NZRU's unilateral decision to boot the South African teams (and Jaguares) out of Super Rugby.

[@paulbutler8760]

I believe that as a Irish supporter there should be two divisions in the (10 nations) .Georgia. spain.romania.portugal . And have a promotion .relegation system.

[@scubasausage]

Id love to see that personally. It would be a great incentive for the tier 2 nations to develop. And a fear of relegation would make the 6N more exciting.

[@james5925]

I think only if it’s a playoff between last in 6ns and 1st in second division, where to fit into the calendar is hard though

[@vnnxyz1473]

Bollocks; Italy deserves to be in the Six Nation permanently; Point! How many games Scotland lost when it was the 5 Nations? Don't tell craps! How many times Scotland would have been relegated in the 6 Nations as well; with Italy in?

[@slickboxingidentityveritas1932]

That's too many games and it hurts the club teams who can't afford their big players missing for so long. Then there's European Champions Cup games without your key stars

[@sarahjackson1860]

They’ll never do that unless Italy start losing every game by 80 points in front of empty stadiums. If they do, thinking it’ll always be Italy-Georgia, the law of unintended consequences will quickly kick in and someone other than Italy will finish bottom, have a bad day against Georgia, and you’ll have a 6 Nations without one of the big unions.

[@TappCorporation]

1 comment is that it is only really the South Africans who want South Africa in the Six Nations. In the UK, at least, the conversation is (wrongly) that Italy should be booted out the Six Nations, and either not replaced, or replaced by Georgia.

[@scubasausage]

Im English and I would rather have SA in than Italy, Italy games are dead rubbers, training sessions, forgone conclusions, they arent usually tight or exciting games. Italy won by 1 point for their first win in 35 games. They clearly arent up to the standard required for the 6N. They would benefit more to play tighter competition in a lower level league, it would also help benefit the other teams in that league. But also, if your team won 1 in 35 would you be happy with that? I cant see how the Italians can be happy with their place in the 6N. I mean they beat Wales, its not that hard, every other team bar Scotland beat Wales this year. But they act like they have just climbed everest. Theres definitely a problem with Italy in the 6N. One win against Wales doesnt mean that problem has gone away. Sure it feels nice to say Italy shouldnt go. But its nasty just to keep them in as the whipping boys.

[@admiralbenbow5083]

Not necessarily. I conversation has, or should have as much to do with Italy as it should have to do with other countries. A lot of people including myself talk not about `dumping` Italy out of the competition, but opening it up to the likes of Georgia etc AS WELL AS Italy with promotion and relegation, because right now its an exclusive boys club of 6 and the door is shut to anyone else. For Italy to beat a truly abject Welsh side in Cardiff was a huge win for them, but it wont suddenly make them competitive on the European stage. Neither did the last win or the one before that. One, or two wins do not make a decade and that is what we are talking about here. Lets get over the euphoric stuff an be objective.

[@joaofigueiras1106]

@@scubasausage bro what? Look at the u20s, Italy will soon be at Wales and Scotland's level. And no, they wouldn't benefit from playing weaker teams because they would win all the games as well and wouldnt receive the six nations funding. You know, the funding that helped them create a youth system that is making them a threat to Wales and Scotland. If they didn't enter the six nations they would be just another Georgia or Spain, and if you truly want rugby to expand to more countries, then you should be supporting Italy

[@scubasausage]

@@joaofigueiras1106 The U20s doesnt mean anything. And technically, Italys results have gotten worse since they joined the competition 22 years ago. I think they would benefit from being in a league with other similarly skilled teams like Japan, Georgia. Surely its got to be better than winning once every few years.

[@joaofigueiras1106]

@@scubasausage that's because Scotland got a lot better. Plus, Italy has only had their own professional pathways since the early 2010s, compared to the other 5 nations that had professionalism a lot sooner. Also, they do in fact play other teams, they played Argentina and Uruguay in the autumn nations and are going to play Georgia and Romania this summer, it's not like they're not doing anything. And how do the u20s mean nothing to you? They're the future of the national team, Lamaro (Italy's captain) was playing for the u20s two years ago and France won two u20s world cups and are now easily the best team in the world. There is a correlation between u20 success and national teams success

[@ProTantoQuid]

None of the 6N Unions wanted Italy to be expelled. Nor did CVC, the commercial partners. SA wanted it but they were on their own except for some pundits. The basis for their improvement this year (buiding on the Benneton improvement in the URC, wss the culture of the underage national teams. They still have a long way to go

[@bunnychowmuncher]

Why do you guys always have to have a subtle go at South Africa and have a laugh if things supposedly don't work out for us? Its was about Italy winning and gaining something - let them have that and we should be left out of it to be honest.

[@marcos.2373]

In Italy there are 60 milion people where you got your data?

[@bobjames5781]

Best underdog win since Japan v South Africa!! No to Rassie, dont want that disgrace in the 6 nations!

[@hypermotard617]

Disgrace? For what pointing out the inconsistencies that every coach and fan moans about after a game

[@bobjames5781]

@@hypermotard617 Only SA believe that, he brought disgrace to the game, now its open for all to do the same, you should stick with FOOTBALL!

[@hypermotard617]

@@bobjames5781 😂😂😂 he brought disgrace to the game?? Are you for real???? WR has brought disgrace to the game by letting refs get away with all the inconsistencies and making them untouchable.

[@Valhalla88888]

Wales have been on the decline they got lucky with Red Cards against Scots and Irish last year they are now ranked 9/10th in the world the Scots and English better be careful Italy no easy game 👍

[@kurtpunchesthings2411]

Yea it's like ok cool you finally won a game after 36 consecutive losses and 6 straight years shutout and what you think your back ? Bro you beat a very poor Welsh team with a last second try you now have 1 win in your last 37 six nations games and btw you still got the wooden spoon AGAIN come talk to me when you don't get the wooden spoon

[@claudioristagno6460]

Capuozzooooooooo

[@shane-irish]

Italy rugby returns italian soccer leaves

[@pilotmburu]

They haven't turned the corner. They have Peaked.

[@alexisrdevitre]

A few months later, the answer is still: no

[@NoName-hg6cc]

You sure about that?😂

[@alexisrdevitre]

No :) @@NoName-hg6cc

[@rahowherox1177]

Ffs. Can't be a valid conclusions from 1 game... poor questioning.

[@rahowherox1177]

Much like how when the kiwis (rugby league) win a game and "overtaking all blacks" becomes the narrative for a week or 2.

[@vnnxyz1473]

Eh?

[@rahowherox1177]

@@vnnxyz1473 has Italian rugby turned a corner? Only an idiot would say one way or the other based on 1 game.

[@nzmarco]

@@rahowherox1177 The youth teams are performing and I don't mean imported players. There is some homegrown talent coming through. They have to start somewhere, but hey, there's always one who has to be a downer.

[@rahowherox1177]

@@nzmarco being realistic isn't being a downer... it's being real. Italy may or may not have turned corner... anyone who claims otherwise based on 1 game is deluded. Imo.

[@warenawainohu2827]

Yeh good without JK lol

[@smister3259]

As much as I love Italy it’s stupid placing all this pressure and media attention on them they just won one game and was a last minute try vs a very poor welsh side. Let them string some games together and then see

[@scubasausage]

Yeah exactly, the Italy problem hasnt magically disappeared. Statistically they have become worse since they joined.

[@slickboxingidentityveritas1932]

@@scubasausage Statistically ever other team has gotten far better. Look at Ireland since the year 2000 to now. They were the wooden spoon collectors almost every year until then

[@NoName-hg6cc]

Fine, but remember Welsh played as well as Italy let them

[@scubasausage]

@@slickboxingidentityveritas1932 So why is Italy getting worse and the other teams getting better? And if this is the trend then the Italy problem is going to get worse. I’m not Italy fan but if I were I’d be infuriated at the lack of improvement and I wouldn’t appreciate the overwhelmingly patronising praise they get when they win one game. At this point I think dropping them might have an effect to kick them into improving. Because right now they seem to give up in most games.

[@andyhunter5869]

Nope.

[@fijianfalaa28]

Wtf🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@lifebelowzero4884]

Con top salsa hai preso, pizza e soldi baffoni e , euro ........ci credo che

[@steventhomas9461]

Italy didn't win that game ,Wales lost it ,yet again Wales box kicks with about 1 minute to go and ends up losing the game