He Felt Like Chicago's Peter Cetera, Tubes' Fee Waybill On David Foster Years

[@CommishTV]

Fee's such a down-to-Earth, relatable guy. He's like the cool uncle we never had.

[@milanomaker]

I love these kind of interviews. The insider stories on how musicians get together with other musicians. It’s true that Chicago enjoyed the success that Foster brought them on 16, 17, & 18. But he alienated the entire band just like Fee mentioned.

[@johndavenport7073]

Great interview. Had the pleasure of listening to Richard Marx audiobook of his career earlier this year. Really good and unfiltered. He mentions how much his friendship with Fee Waybill meant. Good job John. You never disappoint!

[@stevemash7505]

I know the Love Bomb album didn't do as well, but Piece By Piece is one of my favorite Tubes songs. And The Completion Backwards Principle is still one of my all time favorite albums.

[@MultiPetercool]

“Come as you are” and “Feel It” are also brilliant tunes. “Feel it” sounds like Marvin Gaye to me. The “night people” suite. is an incredible dance sequence.

[@bei1016]

Always Like a Fee Interview. He's a smart Man. The Tubes were Awesome in The Early Days.

[@toddwalker4301]

I always wondered how the Tubes handled the Foster factor. Foster is amazingly talented, and I think he was very crucial for Chicago's comeback. Their prior album, produced by Tom Dowd was very rough. Danny Seraphine had wanted to bring Foster in on 14, but they went with him on 16 after releasing a greatest hits album as their 15th.

[@jazzpunk]

Ken Scott has a very good book, "Abbey Road to Ziggy Stardust...". He engineered some albums by The Tubes. He sez, yes...Foster got them hits...but the guys were no longer playing their material. Couple refused to play some of the hits Live.

[@c3dmf4s]

Foster is an ego'maniac... and that can not be over stated

[@lamarravery4094]

@@c3dmf4s He's justified. He has the talent and the ear, in the 1980s he was working with everybody, making everyone have hits. He knows he was the best.

[@lamarravery4094]

And Todd Walker, Seraphine doesn't get the credit for reviving Chicago, like Peter and David do. Seraphine's the one who picked Foster, without that simple act, Chicago would've been done in 1981.

[@MrJMS814]

​@@lamarravery4094Sure he made good business decisions. He was a terrible producer. Producers arent supposed to tear bands apart.

[@bobbysands5385]

Great interview. Fee is a cool dude. Good person!

[@DemskePaul2017]

David Foster seems to be a kiss of death for some artists. He did great things with Earth Wind & Fire, and he's rescued careers of Chicago and The Tubes, and the bands have success, but the soul of the band just seems to evaporate. Sappy ballad factor. When I saw Foster team up with Seal, I screamed NOOOO in liberal tears manner, like I did when Night Ranger did Secret of My Success. I guess you can't take away from David's success - he produces product - but at what cost to the soul of the band ?

[@mikemiller865]

While I like the two Tubes albums, I can’t stand Foster. I stopped listening to Chicago when he started producing them.

[@georgebarry8640]

Strong bands can endure the producer. But if there are cracks..it can make everything worse. I really like Nightranger..but tbh they were running out of ideas and the song and its use in a movie gave them access to an audience that may not have ever heard of them. I wished that that door opening would renew the writing in NR, but I don't think it did. So I guess what I am saying is: Sometimes labels put producers with artists because the artist is lost for ideas/songs and the producer is KNOWN for bringing in what ever is needed. So, was the bands soul dead ALREADY? That's a question worth asking, I think.

[@GarrettWorcester]

Hall & Oates' "X-Static" album (Wait for Me, Portable Radio) was produced by David Foster, but Daryl Hall hated the results and/or working with Foster. A year or so later, "Voices" would start the duo's 80s juggernaut into motion. Knowing what I've heard and read about David being essentially a micromanager, he'd probably take credit for relaunching their music career. I'm surprised he and Barbra Streisand didn't throw hands when they worked together. He's a great producer and an excellent keyboardist but a horrible boss.

[@dugeniadugeniadugeniadugen5266]

"but the soul of the band just seems to evaporate" Exactly!

[@davidcorsi4665]

Well said. Chicago went from an jazz-rock innovators to a pop ballads. My guess is it was why Terry Kath was depressed. He saw the direction they were going and was not happy. Robert Lamm did not seem overjoyed with the decision as well. Foster moved them even further into the sappy stuff. Sad.

[@dragongeraldb]

Great interview and clip, now i want to hear the whole thing, who do you not know, John? Oh, that picture behind him has me interested into what it is.

[@RockHistoryMusic]

Thanks. Here is the entire interview.We always post the entire interview at the same time as part one. The whole interviews go on our sister channel "Rock History Book." kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoC6m3msd6dofbM

[@johnlandino420]

That was great I saw the tubes 4 times twice in the seventies and twice in the 80s in Detroit Michigan

[@patrickcasey357]

Great interview.

[@GarySixSixty]

this interview iza a gem already 👍🏼

[@waltersimmons946]

Steve Lukather cowrote "She's a beauty" all the vocals in the chorus of that song 🎵 are by Bobby Kimball. TOTO in the TUBES .

[@lamarravery4094]

Foster should've done an album with Toto, lol. He used Toto musicians to cut records for other bands. I think some of the horn players from Chicago played on some Toto records too.

[@brainrussell6811]

Champlin and Kimball.

[@waynedodgin7449]

Always liked the song the Tubes contributed to the 1984 movie soundtrack to Heavenly Bodies (A Flash Dance rip off i believe) called 'Shes out of Control'. Good AOR upbeat 80s Rocker!

[@GooseOD]

He forgot to mention his solo album David produced that bombed which is why capitol didn't promote the Tubes album Todd produced.

[@jazzpunk]

Yeah, I had (still have the LP) that Fee Waybill solo album. IIRC, I thought it was a miss...

[@brianmccain6302]

That's right,Waybill cared more about David Foster than the guys he grew up with.Karmas a bitch ,he got what he wanted and did his album with Foster and Lukather and when sales were poor Capitol and Fitzgerald Hartley (management)cut ties with the band,Fee never mentions this in interviews but will take shots at Spooner and Welnik whenever Fosters name is mentioned

[@willeebobb2214]

I listened to the "Read my lips" David Foster produced Fee album recently and tried to like it but couldn't. It's just really no good. Lukather is on most of it and his usual magic present on Talk to ya and She's a b was not even close to being there. So if these were the songs of the 3rd Foster produced Tubes album...Yikes...I've always liked the Love Bomb album...SO much better than Read my lips.

[@dustinmoors8889]

Love this segment. Fee Waybill is awesome. John - Woukd love to have you do an interview with Richard Marx!!

[@MissingMars]

Fan Fee Tastic! thanks John for doing this!

[@kenaune2807]

Fee's solo album was fantastic! "Who Loves You Baby" was dynamite!

[@DennisAlvarezMusic]

This makes me want to listen to more Tubes stuff on Amazon. The only ones I'm familiar with are "She's A Beauty" and "White Punks On Dope". I absolutely love his vocal on "She's A Beauty".

[@jazzpunk]

"Tip Of My Tongue" blows me away. Does it sound like The Tubes? Hell, no...more like EW&F. ;-p

[@lamarravery4094]

You never heard of Talk to you later? That's another famous Tubes song.

[@dukecraig2402]

Here's a bit of trivia for ya, in the video for She's a Beauty the boy in the amusement park ride that comes out the other end as an old man was Roseanna, Patricia and David Arquette's younger brother, later in life he had a sex change and wound up unfortunately dying of AIDS related complications, he was around 13 years old when he was in the Tubes video.

[@damonhines8187]

Cool AF!! Never knew that stuff was Foster! Liked some of the stuff with Domenic Frontiere, who I was vaguely interested in as having composed the theme for the old 'Outer Limits' TV-weirdness-sci-fi anthology which grabbed my imagination after emigrating to Canada in '64 from England at age 7+. Formative shit. Cheers, and thanks, subbing.

[@MrJMS814]

Foster isn't a producer. He's a businessman.

[@alanunseld4942]

talk to ya later shes a beauty 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@jazzpunk]

Thank you, Steve Lukather! ;-O

[@Another_Broke_Musician]

I love all the Capital albums including Love Bomb. (Although Remote Control is my favorite.) I love Fee. (I really dug Read My Lips, too.) But I was in the band's corner on this. They're good writers and really good players. Their ideas need to be heard

[@dewdew34]

I remember Fee talking years ago about how if they just had one more hit, had worked with Foster or Mutt Lange they could be REO Speedwagon or Styx...Although i think REO/STYX had quite a few more hits. He was speaking to the fact these bands with 3 or 4 hits than can tour forever headlining these festivals and big shows and make alot of money. He seemed pretty disappointed they didn't try and make one more commercially successful album but he said Foster made them work hard and the band didn't like it. Rundgren just didn't get the best of them.

[@annewrenn5014]

He can turn his back on " Dancin' ", but I think the concept, song, and production are quite wonderful.

[@brianmccain6302]

Only 1/2 the story with David Foster and The Tubes.After producing 2 albums (completion backward principle and outside Inside)Foster gave the Tubes an ultimatum that he would write and play with his preferred session musicians on all of side 1 of the album with no participation from the band and he would let The Tubes have creative control in side 2 .Fee wanted to let Foster do whatever he wanted.Remember Foster ,Lukather and Waybill would then get 1/2 publishing profits in this arrangement.Capital records was also pushing for this because this was as The Tubes final contracted album and like peter cetera the label was more than ready to give Fee a solo deal and dump The Tubes thinking that the Waybill Foster Lukather songwriting team was guaranteed record sales.The Tubes realized that their contract and time was probably done decided that they would put out an album that represented what the "band" wanted as opposed to Fosters lightweight 80's radio format.Fosters 1st album ( completion backwards) was a good album and you can hear the improvement particularly in Fees vocals(Amnesia) and also added 2 excellent bridges in don't want to wait and amnesia.outside inside is an album that has songs that are generic sterile 80's garbage (session players).No not again,Fantastic Delusion ,Monkee Time even out of the business are bad .What's makes it worse was on the outside Inside reissue the bonus tracks were much better than 1/2 the songs on the album(keyboard kids ,when your ready to come and satellite).so capitol decides Fee and Foster don't need the rest of the band and write and record Fees solo album Read MY Lips.Funny how Fee mentionsthat Love Bomb was. Failure but no mention about what s commercial and creative failure Read My Lips was.(IMO ontly 2 good songs ,the great saved My life ,and Thrill of the Kill).While Love Bomb didn't connect with a lot of people many people I know that didn't like it originally love it now,particularly side 2 (night people etc.I guess all things come to an end but it was a shame one of the most unique bands broke up.

[@michelelaraia7358]

4:25 Richard Marx "Satisfied".😄

[@krisscanlon4051]

Foster worked with Alice Kooper and due to that fracas Al broke up with himself😂 seriously great video by John and Fee...Fee and Marx is like seeing Lennon and Rick Springfield working together and it being a critical and commercial smash.

[@waltersimmons946]

Think about it , if the band members in Chicago had done what the TUBES did with saying no to Foster. They wouldn't have had Cetera to kick around and would've had no renewed career that revealed their jealousy and complaints about everything Cetera did or didn't do.

[@OttoByOgraffey]

What is the song he is talking about at the start of the video, when he says it's one of his favorites?

[@BrianLarney]

It's called "Don't Want To Wait Anymore." It's on The Completion Backward Principle album. Intersestinlgy, one of their guitar players, Bill Spooner, is the lead singer on the song. Truly a great song.

[@ronsiegel1084]

Wha is the name of the song you were referencing at the beginning when your girlfriend came out of the bathroom? Thank you

[@damonhines8187]

I believe they were talking about 'Don't Want to Wait Anymore' from '81's 'The Completion Backwards Principle.' Here 'tis, enjoy 😉 kzbin.info/www/bejne/b2GzepJug96ApbM

[@dennygideontv2546]

👍👍👍

[@patrickmoreau7592]

Good story

[@jazzpunk]

...anyone have a thought/opinion >>> would the guys in The Tubes be able to perform the Foster/Lukather material in a Live setting?

[@brianmccain6302]

Yes,same way Fee performs tubes songs he didn't write

[@willeebobb2214]

The Tubes of the last say, 20 years , have been playing those 2 songs as the hits of the set. They rock them up wether they had 2 guitars or just 1.. Fee, Rick, Roger, and Dave M and half the time Prairie have kicked A on the vocals and all their tunes for a very long time. They used to pass through Detroit every summer and they always rocked the joint and the crowd was always way into it.

[@jazzpunk]

There was a time when I loved David Foster's production. Over the years, though...AWB (SHINE-era), The Tubes, Chicago...ugh. Too much gloss, not enough soul. Love the studio sessioneers...but these were BANDS. So, Foster, IMO, works great for solo artists (an example might be Al Jarreau). With solo artists, Foster can bring in his guys. Foster's keyboard playing is also top-notch.

[@lamarravery4094]

Yeah, Foster didn't really work with bands, he picked one guy, usually the lead singer from the band and got his session musicians to cut a record with that singer, ignoring the rest of the band. Foster did try to work with Seraphine the drummer of Chicago, but couldn't get the sound he wanted from him so he used Toto's drummer on the tracks. Foster probably didn't have the patience to work with each member, he just wanted to cut these records efficiently as he could, after all he was working with other artists at the same time. Brian Wilson from the Beach Boys was doing the same thing, he quit using the band and brought in the wrecking crew to cut the tracks for the albums. And the other Beach Boys weren't happy with that either.

[@lamarravery4094]

Great story, funny how Chicago sold out to the Foster sound and it made them successful and they whine about it. I mean, what was the alternative? Don't work with Foster and you have no hit records? They should be more appreciative.

[@jasondudash5501]

Fee should've been able to take control of the band. He's the lead singer and frontman and the leader of The Tubes. He deserves better. Steve Perry was able to take control of Journey. He was the lead singer and frontman and leader of Journey. In 1985 during the recording sessions of Raised On Radio, he fired bassist, Ross Valery and drummer, Steve Smith. And now, Neal Schon and Arnel are in control of Journey. If only The Tubes would've let Fee Waybill rule over in 1984, they would've had some more big hits maybe even bigger than She's A Beauty in 1983, Waybill would've never left the band in the the first place in the Fall of 1986. And they probably would've had more albums in the late 80's through the early 90's.

[@Adulteducation8]

Edge Of A Broken Heart I believe went to #25 or so on Billboard's Hot 100. Not #1 like Fee said, but still, a moderate hit. And I love Too Late To Say Goodbye, and Have Mercy is another killer from that first Richard Marx album

[@michelelaraia7358]

Fee,I bought the Vixen vinyl!

[@ricktairamusic]

I'm a big fan of The Tubes, Chicago and yes...David Foster. When Fee talks about writing hit songs and being more successful I'm reminded of that bible verse, "What does it profit a man, when you gain the world and lose your soul". One of the biggest issues of the Foster-effect is that that the soul of the band(s) he's produced seems to be put on the shelf in favor of a more pop-oriented sound. There's a Chicago (the early years) and Chicago/Foster (poppy years). While I enjoy some of the Ceters/Foster hits I much prefer the complex jazz oriented sound with the complex a arrangements and horn charts. Same with The Tubes. "She's A Beauty" is nice but again I prefer the early stuff. Both examples show clearly that though they gained the elusive hit singles the bands never sounded the same after the Foster effect.

[@davidevans1420]

Talk to you later and She's a beauty are pretty much undefeated... :)

[@jazzpunk]

Thank you, Steve Lukather! ;-O

[@Chifan71]

I think Chicago considered Richard Marx as a replacement for Cetera when he left Chicago. Don't know much of the story. Did Marks turn them down or did the band change its mind? Also, was the Todd they're talking about Todd Rungren? Did he produce The Tubes?

[@GarrettWorcester]

You might be thinking of Richard Page from Mr. Mister. He played bass and sang high tenor, so I guess someone thought he'd be an easy, quick fix; he turned them down flat. Richard (Marx) did sing background vocals on Chicago's "We Can Stop the Hurtin'" along with Donny Osmond, and I believe he co-wrote a couple of songs recorded by the band later on down the road.

[@jazzpunk]

@@GarrettWorcester Yep...Chicago needed a bassist & tenor. Richard Page was in Pages pre-Mr. Mister (correct?). They kinda had that blue-eyed Soul thing going on. He may have worked out...but Jason Scheff, IMO, fit better. He's a better bassist & Cetera's early bassin' is no joke.

[@NothingWasEasyTilNow]

Todd Rundgren produced Remote Control, only my favorite album of all time. He also has some writing and performing credits I think. He also produced Love Bomb, not among my favorite Tubes records. My Tubes top three: Remote, Young and Rich, hmmm, and Tubes debut.

[@latexsolarbeef4990]

..i love the Tubes..always have from the get go..seen them at least 10 times..the debut record is sonic bliss..amazing players..they're all great records..the one i don't like at all is 'outside inside'..for me foster was an l.a. candy a*s..you don't alter a bands science for hits producer man..at least not cheesy ones..which is exactly what Chicago did..i get the money thing..i get it..but TR wanted hits as well..but not at the expense of elevator cheese..and 'Love Bomb' I dismissed forever until a few years back..and I'm sorry..it's a GREAT Tubes album..yeah it didn't get on the radio..which was already shit by that time anyway..you want the Tubes..or you want fuking 'toto tubes'..i don't..Fee is an Icon..an envious talent..there would be no Tubes without him..or PP or Rick or Roger..but g'd dammit..Bill Spooner is also an exceptional talent..his vocals on 'One Good Reason' and 'Feel It' bring me to my knees..not just a show band..these are articulate creative soulful musicians..and i feel very fortunate they're a part of my life..Thanks for this interview..

[@jb6879]

The foster era of Chicago doesn’t hold up nearly as well as Chicagos early stuff. It’s just schmaltz.

[@jazzpunk]

Exactly. "Schmalt"z is the perfect word.

[@rubicon-oh9km]

No producer, including Foster, could ever bring Chicago back to their Guercio produced Chicago early days. That band was incredibly special.

[@CutiePie-hh3gg]

Richard Marx is a genius

[@secondroad11]

David Foster is part of the movement that turned popular music into bland crap in the second half of the 80's. He is largely responsible for the "song doctor" situation that still exists today. Consequently, you ended up with generic, over saturated power ballads that all sound generally the same. He is a self-aggrandizer(double-dipping with both production and song-writing credits). He literally gets paid at the band's expense(hacking into song-writing royalties). The bands that had hits from this era are less likely to play them because the songs don't represent the band's expression(We Built This City, Never, Alone, all the songs from the Foster/Chicago era ect)... Foster reminds me of the manager who is trying to sign the Doors in Oliver Stone's movie. Has his faux hip buddy talk him up, he meets the band and then immediately squirrels Morrison off to a corner to try to get him to sign a solo contract and dump the band. Jimmy Fallon's character in Almost Home also comes to mind(somebody who doesn't care about the band, their music or legacy and just wants to make money) Foster got Chicago some hits. Chicago's pre-Foster music got them into the Hall. Fee Waybill made his name with the Tubes. He made his money as a song-doc. The Tubes stayed with the vision. Fee Waybill jumped ship. Chicago sold out, made some money and was turned into the Peter Cetera Band(and hated themselves for it, as well as him). P.S. Don't be on the roads if David Foster is out driving.

[@AllenPendleton]

When I proven producer tells you what to do for your success you need to listen.

[@brianmccain6302]

The "proven" producer went on to produce Fees 1st solo album and had all his session musicians including the great Steve Lukather record the album.Guess what ,the album was a commercial disaster and Capitol records dropped Fee after 1 album along with Fitzgerald Hartley Mgnt who also managed The And surprise surprise,Capitol records dropped The Tubes as soon as the Love Bomb Album was released.If David Foster so great why did Fees solo album do do badly and why didn't he continue working with Fee?

[@sspbrazil]

Richard Marx may be driven, but his music sucks. Definitely stuck in an era, the 80’s.

[@willard2729]

His politics are revolting

[@royrush5374]

What level of freemasonry are you at? Richard Marx is a freemason so I figure you are too Fee.