Headphone techies versus Paul

Headphone techies have different views than Paul which he addresses on request.

[@banabachung4490]

Yesss! a PS Audio headphone amp finally! I've sent a ask Paul query about whether they'll ever release a headphone amp a couple of years back, but no response.. But I am absolutely thrilled to hear from Paul McGowan himself that they're going for it!

[@tomday7309]

Your analogy to the automobile selection process is spot on. As an "Old Fart" I like to listen to the equipment first. I've been disappointed in equipment I have relied on specs/reviews for before hearing it. My audiophile journey started in the late 1960's. When I was interested in a piece of equipment I could go to a local dealer and actually listen to it AB'd (Probably not a phrase) with several speaker systems for free. I do a lot of my listening through headphones and have a couple I use regularly. The importance of trying to actually hear what I want to buy is made more critical as I lose my range of hearing. When I get my hearing tested above 8000Hz I tell them to turn it up and they laugh. Maybe I should have skipped that Hendrix concert when I was 18!

[@ozkaar5287]

At the end of the day, we choose to listen to equipments that bring out smiles on our faces with the music they produce. Those who endlessly search for musical nirvana probably don't get enough time to do this. But if you ask them, they're happy doing their quest. To each his own.

[@Alexandra-Rex]

I am currently saving up to the Apos Caspian headphones! ❤

[@marcbegine]

Hopefully with a balanced (pentacom 4,4 mm) output!

[@sayuti8405]

I studied in CU Boulder before. I wish I knew PS back then before flying back to home country. Would love to visit the show rooms there.

[@jpfox165]

I enjoyed your comparison about buying the car. You can’t just read the magazines, you have to sit in the car

[@richardvannoy1198]

Decades ago when Consumer Reports rated Hi-Fi equipment they only judged by measurable specifications.

[@erichieger7386]

As a headphone, personal, and portable audio gear reviewer for Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity, I agree!! FYI, what the writer was likely referring to about "specs" is more about the obsessions with frequency response graphs, distortion, etc. The bottom line is that "opinions" based on objective data alone without deep subjective is worthless fantasy and lies.

[@niccster1061]

As an inhumanly obsessive dsp nerd, i have NEVER found a subjective issue or strongsuit in a headphone/speaker that didnt correlate with some kind of measurement. It has ALWAYS added up. Every tiny little Q or frequency adjustment. Every impedence spike. EVERY part of a frequency response graph.... it NEVER fails to tell the subjective truth GRANTED you know how to interpret those measurements properly, which many members of this community dont know how to do, and dont realize how deep of a rabbithole it is.

[@misterzero8667]

Get a life enjoy music for once stop obsessing over data and thinking your superior

[@niccster1061]

@@misterzero8667 the data has made me enjoy music to the point of crying.... If you aren't that invested in audio then just say so.... It's okay to be a casual, but don't knock the people who actually know how to build a good system

[@harrykressl1251]

Specs are interesting, but in the end it is the sound that is important. Otherwise you do not appreciate music but tech. I love my PS Audio Director Stream MKII together with my CAYIN HA170 Tube Headphone Amp and my Focal Utopia or T+A Solitaire P, but in the end I love music

[@janinapalmer8368]

If you are an audiophile and are an electrical engineer and audio tech savvy and understand acoustic engineering.... and are creative and like building audio equipment then the biggest thrill is derived from having designed and built a truly satisfying system... Buying ready made stuff and just putting it all together and hoping for the best is only 25% of the fun ....

[@niccster1061]

I have very few pieces of physical equipment that i bought, and the VAST majority of improvements in my system have come from improving my speaker measurement skills, and Digital Signal Processing.... There are consumerist audiophile and then there are "Active" ones, and i'd rather believe the ones doing the actual work loll.

[@Tsxtasy1]

100% spot on. If all you do is look at specs between a 911 gt3 and a Hurican, the Lamborghini is the obvious choice. But I got to drive both around Cresson (race track) and the specs are misleading. There is a connection you get with the Porsche that I’ve never felt in any other car. Despite being down by over 100hp, my fastest lap times were in the Porsche.

[@MichaelLaing71]

Reviewers, such as Resolve or DMS, will have their own subjective opinions on the sound, but they use data to assess and help show the characteristics of a headphone, which may be both positive or negative. Also, whilst something like cables are less of an issue for headphone audiophiles, there are other areas involving the headphone that will definitely make a much more dramatic difference, such as the pads that a headphone uses. I am currently running a ZMF Auteur (original), and with the stock pads, they are considered to be the most neutral headphones in the ZMF line-up. If you change the pads to their Eikon bads, the sound completely changes, becoming a little warmer with more bass and a more compressed soundstage. With pads, you can also change the sound yourself with certain pads. With my Shure 1840, the headphones again are considered very neutral, but I have added rolled-up tissue to the inside of the pads, which helps add bass to the sound and improves the soundstage a little (I have also tried other things such as Kevlar rope, but I prefer the tissue). In the end, though. Like any audio system, the sound comes down to the individual parts that make up the system. With my headphone setup, I have various options that can affect the sound. I could just use my Bluesound Node X, which has a decent 3.6mm headphone input, but I am not a big fan of the sound I get from the Node X, and I have steamers like the Cambridge Audio MXN10, and the Arcam CDS50 which I could use, combined with my Burson Audio x3 Conductor Performance integrated headphone amplifier which whilst having the same ESS ES9038Q2M dac as the Arcam CDS50, has better sound, due to the way the whole package in the Conductor works. But if I do that, particularly with the MXN10, I find the sound too detailed and if I listen for more than an hour, I get a headache and have to stop, so I instead use the Node X, which for some reason, doesn't have as detailed sound coming through via toslink as the MXN10 or CDS50, and that makes the system much more listenable for longer periods.

[@niccster1061]

"Considered very neutral" is the POISON of the audio community. Because many things that are CONSIDERED neutral are not. Those zmf's are objectively NOT neutral. NEITHER is the shure 1840....

[@markmeridian3360]

The problem is that most stereo stores have gone bankrupt and the few that remain only have a limited selection of manufacturers to demo. So we have to look at specs and reviews to decide where to go to listen to and cross reference to other equipment that's available. Not everyone can travel half way across the country to listen to ONE manufacturer's equipment. I made the mistake of buying speakers that I didn't listen to myself once. They turned out to be ok, but inferior to what I already had. Never again.

[@erichieger7386]

Also, looking forward to hearing what you can do with a headphone amplifier! Hopefully integrated DAC/amplifier??

[@mattrismatt]

A dedicated amplifier with a generous array of analog features/circuits/inputs/outputs - for instance, a bass shelf button - would be much preferred to a combo unit.

[@mikeg2491]

@@mattrismattsome, I have a McIntosh MHA150 headphone amp and it’s gorgeous audio through the analog inputs but the dac on it is outdated and was frankly never good to begin with. I’d rather the thing be future proof and less circuitry.

[@kkrobertson1]

Mr. McGowan I agree 100%! I'm a big boxing fan and I hate when these commentators (Who never been a professional fighter EVERY!!) Debate with ex champions about fighting! They do it like you said; but I don't understand it.

[@cjimcook]

@Paul McGowan Hi Paul - Enjoyed your video, as always, but your raise a good point: Audio is (can be?) subjective. Well, that would imply that I should audition some PS Audio equipment. Problem: The PS Audio website lists only two dealers in the USA. What's up with that? Can something be done to help your budding enthusiasts hear for themselves?

[@Magmun500]

First headphone amplifier?! I guess you forgot about the GCHA. I still have my PS Audio GCHA and I had it modded by MobWright back in the day after I had it for a few months, then very happy with the sound after that.

[@Lead_Foot]

Headphones have to deal with people's varying ear/head anatomy so it's impossible to make a one size fits all kind of tuning. There's always going to be some kind of compromise unless you have a set of in ear mics you can use for EQ.

[@robertmoi8400]

From information gathered from internet and KZbin, I can deduce that measurements is important. The most important measurement is distortion and noise measurements since it measures the transparency and true to source output of the equipment. Even for speakers thd measurements is more important than frequency response measurements. Equipment for measuring speaker thd though is expensive and out of reach for many thus people tend to use frequency response to judge speakers. A speaker can produce distorted signal at same levels and measure flat but won't sound good. A speaker with measured low distortion will always sound good. For electronic equipment's liker DACs, preamps and power amps, a measured distortion of less than 0.0009% will always sound good. For higher distortion, subjectivity kicks in and type of distortion matters to how an equipment sound. Square law devices like FETS and tubes produce mainly second order harmonic distortion which is pleasing to the ears. Circuit topology also affects the sound. Class A topologies usually produce majority of even order harmonic distortion e.g. 2nd order thus a class A circuit might not measure well but sound good. And it's also the reason why discrete class a circuit sounds better than an op amp that measures well but not well enough to be transparent.

[@mikeg2491]

I admit I’m a total layman when it comes to measurements but they’ve never made sense to me. I have a 1980s McIntosh c34v preamp that actually measures LESS distortion than my early 2000s c2300 tube preamp and yet it sounds warmer, richer and bassier than the tube one! Completely flies in the face of conventional logic. They also both couldn’t sound any different from each other to my ears, the c2300 is way more neutral and airier/brighter while supposedly being more distorted. What gives?

[@RichTeer]

I prefer to use the term “observational” rather than “subjective”. Done carefully enough, the former leans towards being more objective and factual, whereas the latter is more of an opinion. One can observe that the bass on a given track is deep and full, but subjectively think that’s not whet we like.

[@tristanjones7735]

Paul - Don't feed the troll. Get the squirt bottle and the rolled up news papper.

[@jeffhicks8428]

Paul wasted no time getting those new Hokas. Ya boy loves them Hokas.

[@TheZslewis]

you were so much nicer than you needed to be here - my kind of guy.

[@NathanStorer]

Paul kind of glossed over the EQ part of the question, and I'm kind of curious what his take would be on that. I too am a fan of having an equalizer in the chain, and I know that tends to be a "no no" for most audiophiles. I'd be curious if PS Audio would ever consider making an equalizer. McIntosh currently makes an 8-band equalizer, so I know it's not TOTALLY out of the question for at least SOME audiophiles. I'd prefer at least 10 to 15 bands in an equalizer though.

[@mikeg2491]

I never understood why equalizers became the devil. Putting aside the argument some days I want a little more treble or a little more bass or a dip in the mids, not every headphone or speaker produces audio the same nor will sound the same to different ears so distorting the signal to the transducer a little to make it sound closer to natural actually makes logical sense.

[@NathanStorer]

@mikeg2491 agreed. I've never had a system that I've been happy with while listening without some sort of eq. Perhaps it's because my system isn't expensive enough, but I'm assuming I won't ever be able to afford a system like that. An EQ is a great way to overcome system limitations, room issues, and tailor the sound to how you like it. I'm confident that not everyone's ears are the same, so we should have the ability to change the sound to our liking.

[@pandstar]

A well designed speaker, in a correctly treated room will not need an EQ. As far as EQ'S go, I own a vintage Accuphase EQ, that was recently refurbished and meets or surpasses original specs. It is considered one of the best EQ's ever made. Yet, it still causes phase problems that decrease soundstage and imaging. So, despite possibly fixing some problems in frequency response, the tradeoffs are not worth it it to me. 4:50

[@niccster1061]

Buying an 8 band eq from mcIntosh is silly. Digital parametric eq is more than good enough. You can literally use a computer and get better results than you ever would with the most expensive fixed band eq from some hyped up audio brand.

[@NathanStorer]

@niccster1061 I'm not opposed to using a digital EQ, just haven't found one I like yet. Any you would recommend?

[@MCMTL]

I would've guessed Paul to be a fan of Grado.

[@turboboost99]

Audeze rhymes with Odyssey, except with a Z. The name of the company came from 2001: A Space Odyssey, which is a movie beloved by the company's founder.

[@yamato1420]

There is certainly one side to the headphone sub-hobby that is very measurement focused. But there is also a large, maybe nearly equally-sized side that loves subjective impressions and comparisons and even also swap their cables, try R2R DACs, compare all sorts of gear, etc... Reviewers such as SoundNews, WaveTheory, Currawong are good examples. As one firmly in the second group, I'm very interested to see how your headphone amps turns out.

[@bikdav]

In other words, let my ears be the FINAL JUDGE?

[@niall-z3t]

what is the best speaker in 500$ that relaxing, warm, engaging, not fatiguing, and enjoyable?

[@gotham61]

Audeze rhymes with Odyssey

[@HansDelbruck53]

That makes it a homonym.

[@dougdavis8986]

If just looking at specs you might end up with a Porsche when you need a van.

[@Douglas_Blake]

Only if you don't actually know what you're looking at. I would think the "trunk space" would be a dead giveaway.

[@dougdavis8986]

@ knock yourself out. Go buy your audio system based on specs alone.

[@skip1835]

Asked before - but where's the Periphery Ring for the VPI? If I remember correctly didn't you guys have Mark come in and personally set it up? I'm wondering if VPI thinks it sounds better without the ring - and Paul, come on, that turntable is excellent, it shouldn't be sitting there just for looks - ya should be playing a nice record now and then.

[@unclewilbur8976]

I completely agree that a purchase should start with learning and end with practical auditioning. But for me, that would require distant traveling, night in hotels, and lots of other problems. Only big cities have selections of audio gear. And I definitely avoid cities. So my experiences have made me more of an audiophobe than an audiophile.

[@Douglas_Blake]

A couple of quick points for today's question: First; listening to headphones vs speakers is a largely different experience. Many times I've run demos for my "sound bar killer" setups and left people who've only cared about sound quality of headphones with their jaws on the floor as they realize how different and how engaging a good pair of speakers actually are. Second; I'm what Paul would class as a "measurement guy". I test and evaluate everything I can, so I have some sense of quality and stability from the gear I use and occasionally sell. But don't make the mistake of thinking I don't listen to my own setup... I didn't spend all that money just to dust it off every other day!

[@niccster1061]

The people who only care about headphones are usually uneducated redditors stuck in an echo chamber that BARELY understand how measurements work but use them all the time

[@Douglas_Blake]

@@niccster1061 And you think audiophiles are any better? Do you have any idea how much "science" exists only in the audiophile world? Hint... most of it is pure BS.

[@niccster1061]

​@@Douglas_Blake I dont remember what i said because youtube seemed to delete my comment but it looks like you are misunderstanding..... When did i say audiophiles are any better?!?!?!?!?!?! Audiophiles that spend thousands on cables and think measurements are b.s, are JUST as bad as the echo chamber redditors that rely on measurements but have zero clue how to properly interpret them...... What i CAN say is that there IS actual science behind acoustics. I'm not talking about tiny differences in THD in dacs and amps. I'm talking about frequency response. I'm talking about the directivity index. I'm talking about Listening window. I'm talking about early reflections, etc etc etc etc..... THOSE things are unbelievably important and anything but "pure b.s"

[@Douglas_Blake]

@@niccster1061 I was just being a bit sarcastic. We do seem to otherwise agree. There's a ton of science in audio and acoustics... but that science also makes sense outside of our group. My point was that if you can't confirm our private science from outside the audiophile community, it's probably not true.

[@edverbeek6292]

Well said, Paul

[@glenncurry3041]

Not sure which reviewers this guy limits himself to but there are any number of 3rd party headphone cables. Like the Transparent Audio Cables ULTRA Headphone Cable which is $1,900.00 for your Audeze.

[@johndough8115]

Audiophile Headphone dudes, 100% fuss over Cables. They sell very Expensive Silver Cables, and many other types of cables. Ive never experimented with different Cables.. but I do own some Audiophile headphones. I can also tell you... that Reviews cant be fully Trusted... as there are many company SHILLS that pose as standard public customers. Furthermore... What you hear with your Ears... may sound very different to what I hear, with my Ears. As such, make sure to Listen to these things yourself.. or you may get stuck with something you cant stand. I once had a dude show me his brand new headphones. The Frequency Specs seemed to Trump my own headphones. However... they had such a Loud midrange band... that I literally couldnt stand them. And the thing is... even using EQ... I still couldnt tame that midrange enough to even make them somewhat acceptable. The specs do not tell the whole picture. Not even close.

[@cesarjlisboa7586]

Dear Paul, please don’t be upset with the stupidity of our community; many years ago we was stupid as well. The good news is , they are willing to listening you and learning as much as they can. Please keep going…Don’t give up on saving our community. God bless you and your family.

[@kevinknapp7361]

The community doesn't need saving. It's evolving. As all things do. As people exit this world so do their personal preferences. The ones that come in next have their own preferences. And as a result of this, they taylor the industry into something more inline with their ideas and values. This is how we get innovation.

[@markam306]

The real world is very very complex. Measuring all the aspects of sound is an attempt to numerically quantify this very complex area of physics. Relying solely on measurements is also relying on the following assumptions: 1. You have test equipment that is as sensitive as the human ear. 2. The recording device can accurately quantify and record every aspect of the sound. 3. You can recreate the human ability to intake sound from both sides of the head independently and extract all the spacial, timing, and other aspects of sonic information. 4. You understand the relationship between phase shifts, transient attack timing, and a list of other subtle differences that allow you to properly interpret the numerical recorded data. Good luck. Or, you can use the two ears, nerve system, and brain you were born with and simply listen.

[@Douglas_Blake]

This just BEGS for a response ... 1. Even the most inexpensive hobby gear is going to be way more sensitive than the human ear. Can you hear 0.01% distortion? No you can't, but I can see it on even a cheapo scope. 2) Most ADCs have distortion and frequency response way beyond what you can hear. 3) 2 microphones 4) Not only do technicians and engineers understand these relationships, we know how to manipulate them for effect. I agree that the listening enjoyment test is the final step ... but you really need to learn more about how this equipment is developed and serviced before you go dumping on the people who design, build and maintain the very object of your passions.

[@markam306]

@ obviously you are able to measure a variety of the attributes of a musical presentation. Are you telling me you can set up 2 microphones in a high end listening room, measure and record every attribute, look at the data only, and tell us exactly how the sound reproduction is perceived by human hearing ? Can you predict how wide and deep the soundstage is ? Can you tell us with 100% certainty which treble reproductions will sound harsh to a given listener ? My intention was not to belittle the state of the art of current technology. My comments attempted to point out that reducing real world physical phenomenon to measurements that capture every nuance and subtlety of what nature presents us is a very very tall order.

[@Douglas_Blake]

@@markam306 First of all lets clear out a couple of common misconceptions ... 1) "Soundstage" is _NOT_ a function of home audio gear. There is no part anywhere in a stereo amplifier, pre-amplifier, DAC etc. that can either create or modify "soundstage". The actual positioning of instruments in the sound field is done in the recording studio and burned into the source recordings you play back at home... that is to say, that you have no control over it except to sabotage it with sloppy setup, bad rooms and terrible speakers. 2) There is no music inside your stereo equipment. In fact the "music" you hear is again encoded into your source recordings at the mixing and mastering phases of production. In the reproduction phases, at your home, you are dealing with 2 simple voltages that vary over time. Your home system does nothing more than to decode and boost those two smallish voltages (typically 2v) to a level of power that can drive your speakers. Those two voltages (one per channel) are, in reality nothing more than a map of how to move the speaker cones. Your home stereo no more knows what it's reproducing than a donkey knows how to fly a 747. Now, with those issues understood, it becomes much easier to examine a stereo (or home theatre) system's performance. Examining key factors... power, frequency response, distortion, noise, etc. tells us all we need to know about your equipment. For the often misunderstood in-room response we can use simple software and test tones to examine the behaviour of your individual speakers, using calibrated microphones and software and tell you with reasonable certainty what they will sound like. Again, soundstage is NOT a function of your home equipment. But it can be examined by analysing your source recordings and looking at waveforms and relative levels and delays in both channels. There's nothing you're going to do about that in your home, but it is done in recording studios all the time. The obvious retort here is "What about tone and balance controls"? I will tell you that if you crank the bass or move the balance control, not only can I tell you which way... I can tell you how much within fractions of a decibel too small for you to hear. It is extremely convenient fiction for people to convince themselves they're smarter than the engineers and technicians who design and maintain their equipment. It gives you some sense of dominion over things you don't understand. But the problem with this is that you have utterly no idea how _much_ you don't understand. There's an old saying: "What I know fills my glass, but what I don't know can fill oceans." The real trick here is to not back yourself into a corner making noise about what you do know, preferring instead to travel the voyages of discovery to learn more about what you do not know.

[@thehawk05]

“This group focuses on data driven reviews and specifications” Sure sounds like Amir and his Audio Science Review cult

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

👋SOMEDAY 🤗💚💚💚

[@rogerhuston8287]

"Well Connected" does that mean ASR forum? That's the only group I know that cares more about specs than sound. SINAD above all! That's not the heart of the headphone community by any means.

[@snoochpounder]

There’s no way the new speaker setup beats the old one but I understand that it’s for demonstration purposes.

[@SuperMcgenius]

Yes, test equipment and analyzation of the results point out problems, but they do not give you solutions to the end goal of how humans hear. That is an Application that has not been cracked yet. There has not been a piece of electronics or machinery they can match the sensitivity of the human here yet, it may come Sunday, but it’s not here today. Trust your ears and just have fun.

[@gitmobob1714]

I had a long running atgument with a prominent headphone reviewer because before he did his subjective review he EQ'd the heck out of a headphone I was interested in. I asked him how can I trust your review when I have no ability to hear what you heard. We went back and forth for a week and I finally gave up and haven't read one of his reviews. Many people agreed with me.

[@Douglas_Blake]

Keep in mind that with extremely rare exceptions, "reviews" are simply advertising disguised as advice.

[@gitmobob1714]

@@Douglas_Blake in many cases I agree but, almost universally headphone reviewers measure the product first then their subjective review is written to agree with the measurements. The subjective should come first so that the measurements don't skew the reviewers opinion. I personally never look at specs but prefer to let my ears guide my choice.

[@Douglas_Blake]

@@gitmobob1714 I tend to look at the specs before buying. I use them to eliminate stinkers and overpriced gear. But once it's in my possession I will let my ears guide the decision to keep it or not. Ya still gotta like whatever it is, after all.

[@uribar-ner5055]

Dear Paul, I see that your speaker cables are on the floor. You don't raise them up?

[@stevenholquin2127]

You Can Go To The High End Audio Show in Munich Germany 🇩🇪 or The Global Entertainment Technology Show in Frankfurt Germany or The Audio Fest in Toronto Canada 🇨🇦 I’ve Been To Them All and They Can Be Data Driven or Subjective Driven or Even Visual Driven With Some of The Most Extravagant Looking 👀 Home Audio Contraptions Yet These Audio Expo’s Are Full Of Up Tight Audio Snob’s ….That Doesn’t Make Them Bad People Yet Even I Can’t Afford 99.9% of The Latest Home Audio Equipment That’s In These Giant Expo’s Although I Have Heard Some Great Speakers 🔊🔊 🔊 🔊 at $600, Thousand for a Pair First Of All You Must Be a Retailer or Manufacturer or Audio Recording Engineer or a Audio Critic Just To Name a Few To Be Able To Set Foot 🦶 in These Expos and Then The Madness Begins….Yet What I Noticed Is You Don’t See Children Or Kids or a Section Set Aside For Children Or For The Novice That’s Where it All Starts With The Curious 👀 Whom are Eager 🤩 To Explore Not as a Audio File But as a Young Person Who is Auditory That’s Where it All Begins I Miss Folks Like Robert W. Carver Who Was Always So Excited 😆 To Talk About Audio Who Is Still With Us Yet Retired From Over 50 Years Of Designing Some of Home Audio History and Pro Audio Which am Sure is Not in Pauls 10 Volume Books You Don’t See Much of Bob’s Pro Audio Equipment Yet I Try To Let My Neighbors Kids Come Over and Turn The Nobs Throw Some Switches Push a Fader and Flip Some Buttons That’s Where it All Starts Nothing in My Collection of Audio Equipment Is so Precious That I Don’t Let The My Neighbors Touch or Their Kids Touch It’s Just Audio Equipment That i Have Already Made Everything So Unbreakable That if My Amish Neighbors Brake…..It’s Only Rock n Roll and Hell I Can Fix It Right Down To The Last 4 Ohm Resister Yet To See The Looks on The Faces Of Children And Their Parents When I Play Frankenstein By Edgar Winter is Just Fantastic My 4 Apogee 18” Sub Woofers Powered By 2 Crest 8001 Amps Just Shakes The Entire House ….What’s Really Disturbing…. That’s Before I Turn It Up What’s My Point Ladies and Gentlemen That’s Where it All Starts Getting The Young Ones Involved in The World 🌎 of Audio or Let’s See if Paul Having The Local Grammar School Take a Field Trip To Pauls Facility or Middle School or High School it’s Up To Us Old Timers ⏱️ To Get The Youth involved in The Wonders of Just How Great Audio Can Be it Doesn’t Necessarily Start in a Book 📖 It Starts With Your Ears 👂 Side Note: To See Lenny Florentine at The Munich Germany 🇩🇪 Audio Expo Is Perfect You Needs Guys Like Him and Kevin From Skylab To Stir Up Those Audio Snobs Whom Think You Need To Pre Burn Your Gold Plated Speaker Wire Before You Get That Great Sound or Leave Your Amp Always On Hell Turn It Off Turn it On Or Put Your Amp in Stand By Till Kingdom Comes I Mean I Can Talk Microfarads and The Storage of Energy in a Capacitor All Day and How Fast is The Speed of Sound Yet It All Starts With Some Kid Who Took Some Construction Paper and Rolled it Into a Cone Taped The Cone and Put a Tiny Pin 📌 Through The Tip and Put On Disney’s Halloween 🎃 Sounds Vinyl Record on My Turn Table and Made My First Cone Speaker Who Was Just Curious 👀 Who Was Me at 5 Years Old….. My Old Lady Brought Home Some Cranberry Muffins From Eli’s Pad Boy are They Good One More Log 🪵 on The Fire 🔥 The Dogs and The Old Lady Crashed And Paul Did It Yet Again He Put Me To Sleep 🛌

[@spacemissing]

Listen first, Then check the specs.

[@Thoughtflux]

Specs tell no more than 1/4th of the whole picture. I only listen to headphones at the moment.

[@deadandburied7626]

Sorry to hear of your flatulence problem Paul.

[@tototronic2]

There is no specification that guarantees the sound will appeal to you or me. People need to listen to actual hi-fi gear for themselves and form their opinions. KZbin sound demos don’t count.

[@Pete.across.the.street]

If we listened to actual 1s and 0s then the specs might matter.

[@Douglas_Blake]

You're doing it right now ... KZbin is digital streaming ... the audio is in PCM format.

[@Pete.across.the.street]

@Douglas_Blake I'm not hearing the 1 and 0. I hearing what happens to them after processing and coming out of my speakers. I have no idea whether a 1 or 0 is coming to my ears

[@Douglas_Blake]

@@Pete.across.the.street Of course you're hearing it after processing. But that is also true of vinyl and tape... both require de-emphasis on playback, so you are also listening to processed sound there too. Best suggestion .... do some reading up on how PCM audio actually works....

[@Pete.across.the.street]

@@Douglas_Blake doesn't matter how it works. Specs don't matter for the listener either way

[@Douglas_Blake]

@@Pete.across.the.street Speaking as someone who's been involved in this for quite some time (in decades) I can assure you that you could not possibly be more wrong about that.

[@BruceCross]

Resolve from "The Headphone Show" is a major supporter of headphone measurements, but he calls himself a subjectivist. Measurements might inform reviews, but they don't determine the outcome. There are too many variables.

[@brandonburr4900]

Without evening identifying the group he is referring to we all know this group. They have their place in their own group but no prefer to use my ears and not graphs, specs and measurements. That is where my $$ is spent. I have many $$ headphones but never bought because of that stuff either, just my ears .

[@airgead5391]

Let's be real: you don't buy hifi to listen to, but to sit in your chair and read the specs in admiration. Everyone knows that LOL!

[@shipsahoy1793]

$0.02.. using "data" to make sound equipment is similar to using "music theory" to create music .. "they" can be a helpful part of the process, but on their own, they don't necessarily put you where you want to be.😉

[@Douglas_Blake]

Okay... take the challenge ... build a working stereo amplifier, without ever taking a single measurement... Ya, good luck with that.

[@shipsahoy1793]

@ if you read my post properly, you'd understand that that's not what I said.. C'mon, you're supposed to be one of the "intelligent" posters!

[@Douglas_Blake]

@ Well, I try to be that... but apparently it doesn't always work. 🤔 Maybe try re-phrasing it for me?

[@TheJediJoker]

Subjective tastes can be quantified. If you know what you like, find out what measurements correspond to those likes. Then, when shopping around, look up reviews that include the data and see how those data match up to what you like. If you can audition before you buy, do that, too-but all too often, it isn't possible to do so for most folks. So, trust the industry standard measurements and buy components that measure to your tastes and make buyer's remorse less likely.

[@sudd3660]

no reviewer/tester measures all the audible quantities, maybe engineers do but do not publish. and there is little in the way of standard. that is the point of the video, not enough standards and most people only believe a few measurement of some kind if standard is enough. it is Dunning-Kruger effect with all this data going around and no one has real experience and knowledge to back up their beliefs.

[@mikeg2491]

@sudd3660 Topping amps measures the best out of any audio equipment yet they sound nothing like real music played with real instruments - just dry, flat, anemic, no dynamics. I think it just exposes the measurement system we use have been flawed from the beginning.

[@TheJediJoker]

No, @@mikeg2491. That just proves you prefer coloration from your amplifiers, which is fine.

[@tomoxfford]

3:10 That’s how most enthusiasts buy cars & hifi though & you’d be broke without it. I think what you mean is why trust only objective data and the reason we don’t is because a) we don’t need to because we have subjective data (reviews) and b) the objective data would theoretically perfect but no one has ever thought to measure the exact distance, angle & resistance of a manual gear shifter and so we wouldn’t even know how to relate that to our own experience.

[@nickwilson2318]

Paul, the car analogy comes up again. Just like Danny from whatever "research" (research my arse), you resort to freaking car analogies to get your point about hifi across. Cars are not like HIFI. Of course you can make comparisons, like that if you pay much more you can expect a more luxurious experience, better tactility or something, but stats and data are objective truths! This is why science (which as a hifi brand owner you should be pretty concerned with) relies on data and not personal testimonies. Personal testimonies are EXTREMELY fallible, extremely susceptible to biases. Moreover, people are great at fooling themselves that they aren't biased in any way. You like scifi? Here's a prediction: in 20 years, hifi will be more or less "solved", ie objective performance will well exceed our crappy hearing's ability to resolve and discern problems. It's already (rapidly) approaching that with companies that prioritise science and dispense with the self limiting misconceptions that are so entrenched in the hifi world, especially among older folk like yourself, I'm sorry to say. At that point, it will become more about packaging, features, aesthetics, form, and, to borrow a word that headphone people have been using a while, voicing (essentially the frequency response of a bit of kit). Actually, voicing will be done with EQ, because there won't be any distortion penalty for using EQ. Trad hifi as we know it will die (as it has been for years). Look Paul, it's science or die baby. Somehow I think your company is catching onto this anyway, so either the dogmatic old ideas are a way to shield your main audience (old dudes) from emotional suffering, or your workers are the ones who really call the shots.

[@bassandtrebleclef]

Headphones are great because they eliminate the room, but comfort then takes center stage. As does weight, cord length and material, and whether you can comfortable wear your glasses.

[@Lead_Foot]

They don't eliminate the room. The room then becomes the space between the driver and the ear and also the shape/size of the inner ear. These have a significant effect on sound before it hits the eardrum. You no longer have resonances that affect low frequencies like in the average sized room. Instead, you have resonances that affect high frequencies. It's even harder to compensate for these "room" effects with headphones because peoples' anatomy varies so much. It's significantly harder to get headphones tuned correctly since there's a single driver and so little space in the earcup to do any kind of acoustic tuning.

[@Lipjam]

Thought this might interest you: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6u7i3p7ad91Z8k

[@RoderikvanReekum]

0:30 Yes! Paul agrees with me! That Vinyl is the best and nothing, especially digital audio can beat it!

[@Douglas_Blake]

That's not what he said.

[@RoderikvanReekum]

​@@Douglas_BlakeHe said we still like vinyl only!

[@Douglas_Blake]

@@RoderikvanReekum Try again ... "We still like vinyl, too." ... In context he was explaining that he prefers digital but also still likes vinyl.

[@RoderikvanReekum]

​@@Douglas_BlakeReally?! Why would he say something like that? When vinyl is much better.

[@Douglas_Blake]

@ Oh fer crying out loud .... go back and listen to what he *actually* said. Then go troll someone else.

[@rusedgin]

Well, Paul, I simply can't understand why anyone would go to such lengths to test endless equipment or dedicate an entire room just to sit and stare at a wall while playing music… I love audio, but this community is quite eccentric 😂. Take care!

[@Douglas_Blake]

The dedicated listening room you see in these videos is something of a rarity. In all my experience I've only set up 4 of them. The rest are either in the living room or the basement rec-room. A lot are also combined with Television for 2-channel home theatre. My setup is in my living room. I generally put on some good music and I'll sit back on the couch for a few minutes and listen, then I will find something else to do... reading, solitaire, gossiping with friends, whatever. So no, most of us don't sit staring at a wall...

[@rusedgin]

@Douglas_Blake Well, that's exactly the experience I relate to the most. I can't afford the very best, but with a bit of imagination, time, and the understanding of my better half, I get to enjoy sound that puts a smile on my face.

[@Douglas_Blake]

@@rusedgin That's what it's about! Music should be for the entire family to enjoy.

[@Mk-tp2mz]

Paul your old, subjective ears are not more sensitive than precision electronic measurement equipment . Subjective is not real. Although it sounds real to you.

[@mitchtaylor6512]

I don't see the point, there is no accuracy in audio equipment, none of it sounds like unamplified live music and great measuring equipment doesn't get you any closer.

[@genkifd]

I also dont get what you are saying.... if objective is so perfect why isnt there a perfect system? if objective reviewers are so good why majority of them do brief listening tests in an untreated room?

[@36karpatoruski]

I don’t know anyone that listens with precision electronic equipment. Pretty sure they listen with ears.

[@Mk-tp2mz]

@@36karpatoruski hearing aids you mean, look he's an old man

[@Mk-tp2mz]

@mitchtaylor6512 not true. That's according to your ears