Headspace-Operated Prototype Rifle - Yeah, it's as Weird as it Sounds

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Today we are taking a look at a very unusual prototype rifle, courtesy of Legacy Collectibles. I suspect - but have no direct evidence - that this was designed by one Francis K. Young, a man who patented several very similar systems. What makes it unusual is that it operates by having the cartridge case set back in the chamber, either by moving or by physically stretching upon firing. This would never become a successful mechanism for a self-loading rifle, but Young spent many years working on the idea, making a series of prototypes and registering several patents.
Thanks to Legacy Collectibles for providing me access to film this rifle! Check out their KZbin channel for lots of other interesting firearms history:
/ @legacycollectibles
Contact:
Forgotten Weapons
6281 N. Oracle #36270
Tucson, AZ 85740

[@yuvalbeery2493]

The charging handle is the earliest h&k style handle I have seen. It even has the notch.

[@losos1]

Satisfying though

[@matthewvitorino7579]

@@losos1 2 1

[@dbmail545]

I was thinking about how much this resembles the H&K delayed blowback action.

[@DrSabot-A]

Do we call it the Weird-Springfield-Based-Prototype-Gun-Slap?

[@jd_the_cat]

@@DrSabot-A Yes

[@coaxill4059]

I know you often say gun design is an iterative process and that all the things we use today are old inventions, but I didn't expect I'd ever see an old timey version of the HK G36 folding charging handle.

[@calebreutener870]

Almost looked like an ar bolt catch. If this has last round hold open it bet it was the exact same.

[@The_Viktor_Reznov]

Not only it is an HK G36 folding charging handle but also you can HK slap it.

[@micahreid5553]

@@calebreutener870 It does If you look a little tab extends forward and would get hit by the follower when t is a the way u. Exact same profile as on an AR

[@thegoldencaulk2742]

The presence of a leather buffer and so many stock reinforcements seems to suggest this thing recoiled like a hammer.

[@ulissedazante5748]

The idea is kind of a G3 on steroids: no piston, brute force on the bolt, much less delay than the rollers, and a big mass moving. It would kick like a mule, I guess.

[@Journey_Awaits]

Maybe they were making work out equipment from surplus guns

[@samsonsoturian6013]

You don't have enough stopping power unless you risk breaking a recruit's shoulder

[@SimuLord]

I never knew the US had such a large Elbonian-American population inventing firearms back in the day.

[@ostiariusalpha]

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

[@ericvantassell6809]

there was an evil collaboration with the vulgarian-american community based on the fact that they hated the slobovians more than each other

[@Etherman7]

There was a large wave of Elbonian immigrants just before ww1, and the Army, knowing their history of Firearms manufacturing, started their policy of sending Springfield rifles for experimental designs just to help the Elbonians out.

[@angeleaterstudios1004]

Elbonians? Aren't those the guys who invented Elbow Grease?

[@jrsharker23]

@ThatOneGuy89 south of vulgaria, west of slobovia

[@torchris1]

Given how dangerous this mechanism is, the inventor probably cut off the stock and mounted it in a clamp so he could fire it remotely with a lanyard just in case it totally blew up in his face!

[@christopherreed4723]

That's what I decided once Ian got to where the rifle was in it's development. An early prototype, like this probably was, doesn't need a shoulder stock, because nobody is ever going to shoulder it. It will only ever be fired from a clamp, and a shoulder stock would just get in the way.

[@egg5474]

It doesn’t look poorly built enough imo, although that bolt doesn’t look too reliable to run reliably and with wear maybe a premature ejection problem

[@justarandomtechpriest1578]

@@egg5474 because all prototypes have to be crude We dont know if this was v1 or v10

[@Superabound2]

@@justarandomtechpriest1578 no one said it was crude. But by definition a prototype is not a production model and should be distinguished as such to prevent it from entering distribution or being used for other purposes. A rifle of this design without a stock is not likely to be picked up and fired by anyone other than it's intended operator

[@beargillium2369]

@@christopherreed4723 atf says if you can't shoulder it then it's a pistol, so there ya go 🤠

[@nosuchthingasshould4175]

So here's what happens after you have watched enough of Ian's videos- you end up knowing just enough to come up with all manner of theoretical alternative operating systems, such as this one, and then invariably Ian comes along a couple of months or years later and shows you that yes, it might be possible, yes it has been tried but here is why it was shit.

[@Dreams_Of_Lavender]

I made an SMG version of this that was visually based on the Ribeyrolles carbine years ago, lol. Didn't know it was a thing until today.

[@nosuchthingasshould4175]

@@Dreams_Of_Lavender made?

[@Dreams_Of_Lavender]

@@nosuchthingasshould4175 "Made" as in created a concept model in Blender. Not "made" as in created physical prototypes.

[@eisenkrieg553]

I wouldn't say they are shit designs but simply limited by technology at the time. The working principal of this design just needs to be figured out and this guy simply had trial and error, not high speed cameras and other tools in order to perform any diagnostic checks. Plus it was stuffed inside of an unwieldy form instead of a typical assault rifle.

[@CptJistuce]

@@Dreams_Of_Lavender Color me disappointed.

[@petrchar2852]

You can theoretically lock the bolt open. My mind: You can theoretically HK slap it!

[@homeopathicfossil-fuels4789]

There are so many things you can HK slap and I do it at every opportunity because it feels so good to do.

[@DanknessArising]

fuck, you beat me too it lmao

[@MTMILITIAMAN7.62]

I am guessing you're my age, and you grew up watching the action movies of the 80s and 90s, when the HK Slap was the most bad ass thing you could do. Slapping that bolt home on an MP5 was even cooler than racking the slide on a pump action shotgun. You always knew a helicopter was about to be shot down or an alien was about to die.

[@homeopathicfossil-fuels4789]

@Sichael Mender Well, as a gun girl I can confirm that a slap to the hind is the perfect way to make sure I am loaded. :)

[@johncage3025]

@@homeopathicfossil-fuels4789 Wow 😳, lol

[@filanfyretracker]

the period of time for this gun sounds a bit like what the 80s and 90s were for personal computers, lots of people throwing ideas at the walls and seeing what stuck.

[@SolyomSzava]

Yeah, except it's "what doesn't blow up" instead of what sticks.

[@chaseman113]

*seeing what stuck... together?

[@rotwang2000]

When Ian explains the mechanism of a firearm : 100% on board with understanding how it works. When I see any gun firing : "Wow, it's unexplained magic !!!"

[@Ezekiel_Allium]

Honestly the AK is the only gun I see in action and I'm like "yeah, I know how that works actually" Most other guns I understand in theory but I squint a little and theres a lot I dont get

[@gerrymandarin6388]

Blowback is easy enough, it's literal weight and spring force that's holding the cartridge in place. Direct impingement uses gas from a fired cartridge to rotate the bolt. Now, roller delayed blowback is... Hard.

[@ianfinrir8724]

@@gerrymandarin6388 Recoil operated is similar to Blowback but the barrel moves with the bolt. Short Recoil: The barrel moves half to length of the cartridge before the bolt travels the rest of the way. In Long Recoil, the barrel travels the full length of the cartridge.

[@tomaspabon2484]

@@gerrymandarin6388 Blow-forward and rotating-barrel, short-recoil are both reliant on the bullet's friction on the barrel. It's a simple enough concept, but I'm still amazed that it works.

[@shala_shashka]

This is how I feel about both firearms and cars lmao

[@MorningGI0ry]

File this under “Weird evolution of a 1903 that I didn’t know existed”

[@Dapstart]

are you who you say you are are you who you say you are

[@ericvantassell6809]

@@Dapstart all your base are belong to us

[@ericvantassell6809]

no can do. already filed under "stuff I didn't know I needed"

[@bobroberts2371]

@@ericvantassell6809 Oh look, it's a proto Shockwave. . . . .

[@maverickfox4102]

The Brits did the same thing with their Lee Enfield SMLE Mk3.

[@moparkalashnikov3344]

business in the front, party in the back

[@rodrigobarreto1947]

The mullet of rifles

[@History_Coffee]

"Oh god, we're in the hands of engineers"

[@userJohnSmith]

Jurassic Park reference I think. I'm an engineer in a completely different field. I can no longer whatch that movie because the engineering of the park is so bad it's unbelievable. Those weren't engineers building that place, they were scientists pretending to be.

[@FitzPenn]

If it ain’t broke you haven’t tinkered enough.

[@heikkiremes5661]

Always have been. D:

[@tortron]

@@userJohnSmith a scourge on this earth. Pretendgineers

[@mf1ve]

This is just the strangest thing - so glad you gave us the details AND the background!

[@deucedeuce1572]

I can't even figure out how the bolt could have been made. (The lug slot in particular).

[@cnlbenmc]

Sorry I had to disrupt your 420 likes.

[@janwacawik7432]

I love all the weird semi-auto operating mechanisms built on M1903 rifles. The primer actuated one was also quite bizarre.

[@EnLaMatrix1]

The HK slap is the equivalent of someone saying your joke louder and getting all the credit

[@CurtHowland]

For a hand-made one-off, the workmanship is extraordinary. Beautiful work!

[@PelenTan]

Fascinating as always. But I hope KZbin is paying you extra for this one. They ran adds pretty much every minute of this video.

[@timdinch5598]

Why not just use youTube Adblocker.....What's an advert?

[@Chartruse5]

As of Dec 2 I think a new policy went in place where youtube can claim ad revenue from a demonetized video and make out with 100% of the profit. It's obscene.

[@braden1986]

Ian's already said he has adverts turned off, so as ZiggyDoes mention, this is 100% money going to Alphabet rather than any going to Ian

[@thefunkosaurus]

On any video: Start video. Skip opening ad (if possible). Drag play marker to the end of video. When video refreshes, replay video AD-FREE!!!

[@wingracer1614]

@@braden1986 That's Inrange, not Forgotten Weapons. This channel has not been demonetized.

[@mylastaccountgotdeletedtha6936]

Springfield 1904 prototype: (has a unique charging handle) H&K: Write that down, Write that down!

[@deebolati42069]

Here I was foolishly thinking I'd be going to bed

[@icecoldfire25]

Same...

[@d3734]

Why are u going to bed at 8 am 🤔

[@MootingInsanity]

@@d3734 Some of us work nights

[@threeleafclover6003]

Goodnight!

[@nousernames444]

Don’t lie all of us that work nights know he posts when we should be going to bed lol

[@piratenflipper]

wtf is this beautiful monstrosity

[@vincentcathcart8950]

@@slaughterround643 uqywwy

[@dj1NM3]

This system seems kind-of like a linear version of lever-delayed blowback, where the "lever" is the bolt head with the locking lug and cam-way, that is forced to rotate and unlock as the breachface is pushed back slightly and forces the pin to travel along the cam-way. Like the FAMAS and HK roller-delayed guns, would probably work properly and consistently with a fluted chamber, but that technology apparently wouldn't be developed until several decades later.

[@4991Ares]

I'd call it impulse delayed: breechhead (?) delivers impulse to bolt carrier, is then halted by the bolt, bolt carrier continues rearward on impulse alone and unlocks the bolt. A Newton's cradle, but clearly more fun.

[@jeffthebaptist3602]

Yes it's basically delayed blowback. The cartridge can blow the bolt head back a short distance and get the carrier/buffer moving before the bolt head bottoms out on the main bolt body. That buffer then has the energy to cycle the system. Kind of reminds me of Pedersen's hesitation lock system only with a rotating bolt instead of tilting bolt.

[@dravidiantommylinson3880]

All of you are wrong lol yes it is a delayed blowback, like a CETME rifle, using a high-pressure rifle cartridge. The closest thing this resembles is easily a CMMG rotary-delayed blowback system, where the inertia from rotating the bolt is the "delaying" force. Although, I will say yes, this does look like an enlarged portion of half an HK roller-delayed system.

[@discerningscoundrel3055]

@@dravidiantommylinson3880 It's the same hesitation lock operating system as the Pederson - the bolt is allowed to move a very small amount, which sets the bolt carrier in motion (a slide, in the case of Pedersons Remington 51) which then opens the bolt after some delay. However, the locking mechanism is a rotating locking piece. It differs substantially from the CMMG, as it features a small movement of the bolt, then a stop, then a subsequent movement. After the initial movement of the bolt head, it unlocks in a similar way to gas operation or straight pull bolt action, with the bolt carrier unlocking and providing motive force to the bolt. By contrast, the CMMG system does not involve any stop and restart in the movement of the bolt head, instead the bolt head is allowed to move back, but to do so it must move an additional mass faster than itself, slowing the initial opening, but not the rest of bolt travel. The CMMG can be grouped with lever and roller delay systems in that they all rely on a bolt body having to move faster than the bolt head to slow the initial opening, whereas hesitation lock is somewhat weirder. It's difficult to clearly explain hesitation lock systems simply because they are so unfamiliar.

[@emuriddle9364]

Maybe a Twist-Delayed blowback?

[@lairdcummings9092]

Rube Goldberg, Weapons Engineer, strikes again!

[@fnorgen]

If you ever have to chose between paying patent royalties for a sensible design, or patenting your own back asswards, bizarrely complicated design, always chose the latter!

[@lairdcummings9092]

"Weird" keeps the lawyers at bay!

[@DeadAntGaming]

I absolutely love these old hand made prototypes. Even the failed prototypes show amazing craftsmanship and skill

[@callumcuda7903]

Isn't this essentially the same as a hesitation locking system on the Remington model 51. The bolt rotates instead of tilting but the idea seems the same.

[@discerningscoundrel3055]

That's my immediate thought on the matter as well. It seems like a concept that ought to have received more investigation than it has, given that the original Remington 51 seems to have been well liked - if something of a market failure due to cheaper competition - and the .45acp 53 was rated pretty highly based on early testing, but turned up just a little too late to compete with the 1911. On the other hand, I gather the recent revival of the 51 was an utter disaster, although I have no idea to what extent that was a finicky system, poor quality control, or the combination of the two.

[@SolyomSzava]

@@discerningscoundrel3055 The similar system in the Remington model 51 works reasonably well due to the much smaller chamber pressure of the ammunition (about a quarter of the 30-06). Also, it is a civilian weapon, where environmental conditions are rather mild, compared to battlefield conditions. I suspect reliability was a problem, not only due to manufacturing tolerances of the ammunition, but also the thermal expansion effects messing with the operation (and this is a prototype, for a series production rifle, tolerances of the rifle, and wear from long-term use would further reduce the reliability).

[@discerningscoundrel3055]

@@SolyomSzava Yes, I can imagine the pressure of 30-06 will have presented something of a challenge, especially as this was decades before fluted chambers were a thing.

[@ScottKenny1978]

@@discerningscoundrel3055 not that long before fluted chambers. The AVS-36 had them. (Predecessor to the SVT38/40)

[@LenKusov]

@@SolyomSzava I mean, there were other high-pressure delayed-blowback guns being made at this time, it's not a difficult problem to solve - modern ones use fluted chambers, guns of that era just required oiled/waxed cartridges to extract properly. This also looks like the actual chamber is longer than the round is, so case-head separations are unlikely, but ripping the rims off cartridges probably WAS an issue if you ran un-lubricated ammo.

[@utubrGaming]

Last time I was this early, we didn't need all these newfangled magazines in our weapons! If we needed to shoot, we'd place our rounds down the muzzle! Who needs to carry extra?

[@abohachuk4765]

Literally every sane person.

[@MootingInsanity]

>not switching to needlefire ok boomer

[@boomstick1584]

Are you a muskateer??? My old 50 cal. stainless Remington 700-ML, probably the most dependable deer 🦌 killer. Every shot has hit the intended deer and dropped him in his tracks. Even with a 7mm Magnum, you have a runner sometimes....

[@andrewjb05051998]

Fudds gonna fudd

[@boomstick1584]

(he probably just placed an order for a dozen 30 round magazines)

[@widgren87]

Interesting gun although the lack of shoulder stock reminds me of a Tanegashima matchlock...

[@PhilipFear]

The stock was cut when the prototype moved on to the next stage.... Then it became a Ref. Model of development travel.....

[@michaelbaker8284]

@@PhilipFear And it probably was never very safe to fire.

[@honeybadgerfacts3871]

Just tell everyone it's a pistol. Specifically the ones you don't like.

[@bobroberts2371]

@@michaelbaker8284 Oh look, it's a proto Shockwave. . . . .

[@widgren87]

@@bengal2441 Now I feel like an idiot... I tend to forget match and wheel locks and default to flint...

[@CaptainGrief66]

I guess this could also be classified as an Inertia-Operated, this is very weird and possibly unsafe, I expect the rifle to really like ripping cases

[@DualDesertEagle]

And once again the sheer POWER behind that tiny little explosion in a gun's chamber blows my mind! I was already surprised how little of the travel on a long stroke gas piston actually happens under pressure before the gas is vented, but this is such a tiny little kick against a bolt face that is already enough to make the bolt cycle all the way against its recoil spring (even if it doesn't do so reliably) and if I was a gun designer then this kinda stuff would never have to to my mind!

[@notgraham.7215]

That tiny little explosion isn't tiny relative to the amount of space it's contained in. Sure, outside of a chamber the blast radius would be like, an inch or two for most intermediate calibers, but remember, that's crammed into a .30 cal hole

[@thomasa5619]

Well let’s do some (really rough) math: 30-06 has 60kpsi max pressure. (Bolt thrust of about 4.5 metric ton) Say the bolt head only travels 2mm? (About 0.080 inch) I’m just guessing based on that Ian kinda showed us [The difference between max and min SAAMI spec is 0.51mm] A force of 4.5 ton applied on a distance of 2mm is approximately 90 joules or half the energy of a .22lr. Those 90ish joules are only used to unlock the bolt (against friction on the locking lug and case head, I’m including that at the end as a note) Using 90 joules and vaguely guessing the bolt carrier weighs 100g (3.5 ounces) [half the lightest of AR15 bolt carriers] The bolt carrier is thrown backward at 40 meters per second (130fps) The camming surface appears to be about 3/8 inch? I’ll use 10mm. So the bolt carrier is travelling 10mm backwards at 40m/s The bolt unlocks 2.5 milliseconds after ignition? Once the bolt unlocks the whole bolt/bolt-carrier/bolt-head share momentum/energy and would be travelling around 20 meter per second or 48 miles per hour. Plus any residual gas pressure left in the barrel which at this point is well below 10k (not enough for me to worry about personally, however I will note that being nearer to 6k, the thrust provided by residual gas would be comparable to 2x 22lr’s at once) My estimations also suggest 20-100 joules of energy is lost in friction between the locking lug and receiver (steel on steel coefficient of friction is vague) Once tuned right with consistent ammo the recoil shouldn’t be too bad

[@notgraham.7215]

@@thomasa5619 you: "some really rough math" Also you: *writes a complete dissertation, thus completing your PhD in science having previously majored in ballistics *

[@thomasa5619]

Not Graham. I estimated like 3 different measurements using “gun jesus’ finger” as a reference ignored several aspects then randomly decided “once it’s tuned it’s probably cool” It should do the job. But it’s still rough. I just enjoy math

[@notgraham.7215]

@@thomasa5619 gun Jesus fingers are an official unit of measure, and you can't convince me otherwise.

[@discerningscoundrel3055]

If I remember correctly, this type of operation is sometimes called "hesitation lock", and is conceptually similar to Pederson's Remington 51 and 53. I can only assume there would be issues with the very high pressure initial extraction, but giving the design some primary extraction, as the rotating bolt design does, might help. It might have benefitted from a fluted chamber, too, although I don't know when they were actually invented.

[@Neeso97]

Explains why there’s all the Springfield variants in BF1

[@srfokay]

Love the simplistic trigger group. It really easily shows how sear and semi-auto disconnects work.

[@itsmannertime]

Ian knew we were gonna make fun of the "forgotten" m2, so he pulled out the mystery prototype rifle

[@Aaron_Jensen]

I'm not quite sure why, but I love the charging handle on this thing.

[@jesusgotthatdrip4552]

Same

[@hailexiao2770]

It's an AR that you can HK slap, and that is awesome

[@panykfelidae9018]

That is some gorgeous machine work for a prototype...

[@anthonyhayes1267]

They really tried everything with self loading rifles

[@MrJohndoakes]

It seemed like that almost anything could work.....and then it didn't.

[@hailexiao2770]

People apparently *really* hated the idea of drilling holes in barrels back then. Once they got over that mental block everyone quickly settled on gas operation.

[@tarmaque]

This reminds me a lot of the Winchester Model 50 shotgun, which actually has a moving chamber. The Model 50 is a tilting bolt system operated by the chamber that moves back just a fraction of an inch. The mechanism looks kind of like a barrel insert. I doubt it would work for a high pressure rifle round, but it works perfectly fine in a semi-auto shotgun. I have my Grandfather's Model 50, and it's broken a lot of clay pigeons and killed a lot of ducks. The mechanism (and the foot long recoil spring) absorbs a lot of recoil making it more comfortable to shoot a lot of clays. (Designed by David Marshal "Carbine" Williams!)

[@aronsigurjonsson7648]

Its gonna be good when Ian says I think in the intro

[@Clarissa_Star]

With a name like that, I imagine that you are able to mount this on your head and fire away.

[@stormthrush37]

Oh, so it's Gunther's skull gun from Deus Ex, eh?

[@Jarumo76]

"No. I wanted orange. It gave me lemon-lime."

[@claudiaborges8406]

Nah you use willpower to shoot it

[@benjaminbreeg6214]

"Why does this gun not have a trigger?"

[@claudiaborges8406]

@@benjaminbreeg6214 you shoot it with the force

[@mididoctors]

The man loves an experimental automatic rifle

[@danmartin313]

This video is the epitome of why I love your channel, a bit of history, background, teardown, the mechanism, amazing stuff

[@dcraft1234]

All that machine work, and you end up with nothing but casehead separations.

[@donaldbarden6294]

It is informative videos like this that made me a big fan of your channel. Thank you.

[@nickmerino9440]

Whoever designed this must be really freaking smart. Just seeing the mechanics is so interesting and cool

[@fsiradio]

I love those weird experimental rifles! Thanks for showig Ian :D

[@tomkavulic7178]

This one really lives up to the channel name. 10/10 thanks Ian.

[@zakleclaire1858]

I've these kinda homemade attempts at technological improvements. It just shows the type of passion some people have to make things simply because they have an idea.

[@PrinceAlhorian]

My steampunk story writer gears are beginning to turn rapidly

[@Metal_Tao]

Go for it bro!

[@Taistelukalkkuna]

*DO EEEET!*

[@sillylittleowlguy2392]

Fuckin’ go for it

[@FitzPenn]

Embrace thy destiny brother!

[@Saturnus_Ouranos]

@Paul Putter Steamin’ DO IT!

[@Touay.]

Short-stroke-blow-back-rotating-bolt....?

[@phattyre1830]

Reloaders nightmare. Brass destroyer.

[@seanbaker9796]

Truly a Forgotten Weapon. Thank you Ian for this nugget of a historical and developmental piece. Great video as always.

[@AndreasMarx]

Didn't Krnka experiment with something similar in the late 1890ies? As I recall, it didn't work properly so he re-worked it into a primer-actuated design (that also went nowhere).

[@AndreasMarx]

Hmm, I may have been mixed up - Krnka did patent both primer-actuated and headspace-operated rifles, but the dates on the patents I found are the other way around - primer-actuated first (Nov1,1900), then headspace (Oct8, 1908).

[@AndreasMarx]

NVM, found the original source - in Danzer's Armee-Zeitung 45/1901, "Kaisertreu" (i.e. Krnka himself) states that primer-actuation was a fix for headspace-operation; specifically the "unavoidable" case head separations. Admittedly, his anonymous writing makes it somewhat unclear whether that's from Krnka's own experiments or just "common knowledge."

[@Joe.k.e]

Such a fascinating era for firearms. Feels like traveling back in time. Thanks gun jeezus 🙏

[@Keith_Mikell]

Great video Ian. Love your knowledge and stories about the history of the Frankenstein donor gun years.

[@daisho13]

Love the insight into the reasoning for weird features.

[@nealfairbanks5340]

And I thought I knew about every type of firearm action. Always informative content.

[@MrChispa06]

This is what happens when an American finds out he's half German and is a gunsmith.

[@notgray88]

not enough gears for it to be german

[@prussianblue3144]

@@notgray88 But the H&K slap

[@alexanderuhlig818]

Why not...

[@Zeppflyer]

I had wondered if a system like this existed. Thanks for this video!

[@kratosr.t.3377]

Looks very similar to the rifle in the video Ian made"Experimental Primer-Actuated Semiauto Springfield 1903" this headspace system is very interesting

[@-STONECYPHER-]

Rotating bolt delayed blowback?

[@ScottKenny1978]

Hesitation lock. The bolt moves, then stops, then moves again. *Very* freaking weird.

[@ScottKenny1978]

@@jaysonbrockman998 not like the CMMG version. CMMG style, once the bolt starts moving, it doesn't stop until it is all the way back. I mean, yes, it's sorta blowback operated and it has a rotating bolt. But not really.

[@Breakfast_and_Bullets]

Not only is this a really cool firearm, but I have to say that the video quality looks improved from previous videos. Did you upgrade your equipment, or is it just that I'm watching it on a more capable device today? Great content, as always!

[@IvesMarcelin]

Thank's so Lot for the Transcription , Amazing rifle Springfield of 1903...with his special part with the Hamer fire

[@Thunderous117]

I gotta say for something designed with pure insanity the fit and finish for a prototype rifle is actually pretty impressive and some elements of it look genuinely slick like that charging handle and mainspring retention. I absolutely love this era of guns where people threw so much at the wall to see what would stick and just went nuts, Thanks for bringing us this awesome content Ian!

[@Arkanic]

Man this kind of experimental stuff is always a favorite of mine on Forgotten Weapons! Whenever it came from it's always refreshing to see these out of the box ideas, even if they ended up being mostly impractical. Who knows when these old impractical ideas might come back thanks to new advances.

[@416loren]

I'm glad you showed the dis-assembly. I need to clean mine.

[@gemista]

I was thinking that this is very similar to the primer activated designs, and I’m glad you mentioned the differences.

[@Pallium_Industries]

Well designed for its time. I love seeing how those experimental selfloaders were hand fitted and dovetailed with such close tolorances

[@funkla65]

Crazy army brass was probably hoping to repurpose all those 1903's, as in the trapdoor conversion.

[@jalpat2272]

well as far my antebellum historical knowledge, they were pretty much the same persons.as people who asked trapdoor conversion.

[@lawrencemartinjr6888]

Great video! Thanks

[@watata1t]

Jiisus, 7 ads on a 18 minute video 😳

[@yahyamusseb]

Idk i don't have any ads

[@watata1t]

@@yahyamusseb it's not a jabb att Forgotten Weapons , some other channells have spoken upp about youtube putting more ads on theis videos

[@greyhoundTex]

@@watata1t Exactly. I've noticed that content KZbin doesn't like has way more ads now. Some of the political stuff has ads every 3 or 4 minutes on some videos. I assume it's an attempt to get people to get annoyed and not watch?

[@joshuaeah]

Why aren't you using Adblock

[@scooterdogg7580]

not good considering its demonetized , ian isn't getting any revenue from ads on his channel KZbin is

[@alun7006]

What a bizarre, fascinating design. Thanks for sharing!

[@bretalvarez3097]

Whoever made this thing was freaking awesome. Someone should’ve gave him a job.

[@Mercymorn99]

I love this concept so much

[@sirgordus]

Would be great to see a video about the Walther P 88 pistol here one day. It seems to be a forgotten Weapon.

[@stone9302]

Hey Ian, have you ever considered doing a video on trigger mechanisms, and their development?

[@stephenmorrish]

Think the stock was sawn off becasue they didn't want someone firing it from the sholder? Maybe they thought it was unsafe to do so?

[@ineedlean]

The inventor was tinkering with head spacing. No need for a stock for shooting/storage if he’s using a string to pull trigger

[@owenmerrick2377]

My thoughts exactly! It is a prototype, and tinkering with the headspace mechanism...who knows what goes flying.

[@davidlamppert9093]

Same thought here, a cut-off stock would be easier to fit in a vise contraption for remote firing.

[@VolV8]

I know bugger-all about metallurgy/weaponry: would cartridges that 'stretched-to-fit' be very prone to weather conditions affecting performance? I really enjoy your presentations. Thanks!

[@PosranaRegistrace]

Considering the case is "insta-heated" during firing, maybe not all that much, but we may never know ;)

[@tarmaque]

@@kenbrown2808 It also sounds like an ammunition manufacturing nightmare.

[@gerrymandarin6388]

@@tarmaque I'm sure it could probably be done with today's metallurgy but I imagine the cost per round would be insane, not to mention the brass would likely have to be scrapped after every shot.

[@solutionless123]

A lot of work and thought went into this!

[@lyndonsicks1565]

6:39 "Stock looks really good other than the...the butt stock end being cut off for some reason" +30% Sprint to Fire Time -15% Hip Fire Accuracy

[@ChronoTango]

“We don’t know who made this, but I have a theory” Let me guess, Pedersen *AND* Browning

[@ethanmanley4594]

This system reminds me of the Remington Model 51. It's similar in that the case slightly slides out of the chamber which give inertia to the unlocking mechanism.

[@clearsailing7993]

Wow! A lot of creative energy has been put into firearms over the years.

[@s-man5647]

This seems similar to the Remington 51 pistol where the breech face moves just a tiny bit and then stops while a whole bunch of mass continues rearward until it unlocks the breech.

[@wedecolier6512]

It is awesome. More conversions like this one.

[@brocktechnology]

Saw one of your videos recently where you lamented deactivated museum firearms, this seems like a great example of something you would have to fire to fully understand.

[@blakewinter1657]

I love these videos about guns that have interesting ideas that maybe didn't work well or which were superseded, but which show us the process by which developers and inventors would try out new ideas, they're very interesting.

[@fg42t2]

At 3.33 there is a mention that a standard 5 shot floor plate spring and follower will fit. The 20 shot Trench or aircraft extended mag would have also fit if they were developed by 1914 when the barrel was made.

[@TheGearhead222]

That's right up there with the Pederson device, IMHO-John in Texas

[@josephthomas8318]

Since when do Ian's videos have 6 ads per video?

[@TheAttacker732]

It's when YT decided that they could monetize 'demonitized' content, and can now use ads to 'punish' content they disagree with. All while YT can now pocket all the revenue.

[@tarmaque]

Since you decided not to install a browser with an ad-blocker.

[@ScottKenny1978]

@@TheAttacker732 I expect there to be an ugly lawsuit about it. The TV channels have to pay ad revenue to the show producers (production company), it's a legal *requirement.*

[@wingracer1614]

@@TheAttacker732 Except this content is not demonetized. You're thinking of Inrange

[@TheAttacker732]

@@wingracer1614 Huh. I assumed that anything firearms-related was (effectively) permanently demonetized.

[@ugandanknuckles3900]

That weapon was made with love, I can tell.

[@coreymerrill3257]

If you ever get to revisit this design, i sure would love to see a borescope image of the chamber. Especially near the shoulder and in the throat ...if its a moving case , one would think the chamber would be smooth or with linear to bore fluting like hk uses. For a stretching case id expect to see a roughness like ina shotgun barrell just after the chamber , to slow the waddings velocity so it seperates from the shot or anullar grooves machined into the chamber neck and shoulder area to grasp the case until it shrinks back down.meaning it could be case obturation operated. Case expands, grips the groves or roughed up area and stretches / flows rearward and then shrinks slightly after the pressure decreases . releasing from the chamber fully and extracting. So thats why id like to see a borescope of the chamber.

[@randywatson8347]

A folding charging handle... nice! But it seems like the lug at the back might be subject to wear due to recoil force and twist against the lockingsurface.

[@stevecolley6750]

Francis K. Young or whoever built this, not only was a serious thinking man (engineer) but one hell of a machinist /metal worker. Ian, thanks so much for the presentation.

[@johncalbick1178]

The controls on this feel really ahead of its time

[@charlesmckinley29]

Thanks Ian. That is an interesting be it impractical design.

[@MatthewDoye]

There are so many nice ideas here that, even if the system didn't work, I wish some company had bought the developer's IP out or worked with them to make something practical. Young may not have been another Browning but he was still a genius and deserves a better legacy.

[@Punketeria1369]

Super cool channel my guy. I'm so glad I stumbled into it. I love seeing these classic weapons and how they actually function. I am learning alot from your videos, which is great. Just became your newest subscriber ;-) chEErs, 93

[@jamesp7351]

that's crazy. The front locking lug reminds me of the mosin-nagant 1891 bolt lug (with possibly a Schmidt inspired cam). Interesting to see that in a semi-auto mechanism.

[@DFX2KX]

This is a strange design. Clever, but wow it seems dangerous.

[@colint]

If there is an original serial number on any of the parts maybe there are records of who the Springfield Armoury sold it to.

[@g.leebihm2588]

Back around 2009, I saw one of these 1903 self loader rifles at Guns and Ammo in Moss Point Mississippi. The old guy that owned the shop let a friend and I check out the rifle.