[Hearthstone] Ben Brode & Kripp On Bad Cards

Hearthstone | Ben Brode, the senior Hearthstone game dev. spends some time talking about a subject I recently began a few days ago
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[@FreezyPenguin]

Make a test client like PTR for wow. Throw in some new buffed cards. Let the community play the PTR. Look at data and see if the buff had a negative effect on the game or not. :)

[@daleykun]

FreezyPenguin Only downside is that if they did that, the data they collect about the balance etc in PTR isn't valid/accurate if they decide not to implement the buffs, means the new expansion will take twice as long to come out

[@RaphaelWendorff]

FreezyPenguin I thought the same thing. But it has two contra-arguments: 1. How many people would NOT play on a PTR realm of a f2p game? Is the data valid if you only let play 10 % of the players play? Is it even fair for the rest then? 2. So when you do that, why don't you just release those buffs in the stable version? I did hear the arguments against that, but I don't think that noobs/casuals would be "scared" of the changes that have to be made to keep the game interesting. I don't think that monthly "patches" are bad in any way; people have to expect that a game changes at least on a monthly period.

[@Saurus990]

FreezyPenguin This, this exactly. People will do it for free and have fun with it. A win/win.

[@otso682]

FreezyPenguin I was thinking exactly the same. Just make casual mode this PTR, it wouldn't be too bad, and there would actually be some point in playing casual.

[@winstonchen3504]

Add more murlocs

[@JackManic1984]

Here's a sum up of what Ben Brode said: Buffing bad cards won't make us money so No.

[@FightOnRohan]

JackManic1984 Pretty much.

[@Jubanen12]

JackManic1984 that's pretty cynical thing to say...

[@iniyariradio5829]

This is not at all what Ben said; in fact, his discussion seemed as distant from fiscal interests as one can get in a realistic world. It seemed as if he had to dumb-down his discussion for his perceived audience--I wonder if they use more mathematical terminology behind closed doors--but his points were valid. Ben's position reminds me of my own: stop thinking of Hearthstone as a game, and instead, consider it as an interacting system of objects. Consider it as a mathematical system, whose equations will never truly balance if you allow its population to grow. But to achieve near-balance requires precision R&D, and the "good" vs. "bad" cards will naturally populate a Normal curve. Good on Ben for trying to share this with us in basic English.

[@XScythexXx]

JackManic1984 I'm pretty sure a game designer doesn't have control over marketing...

[@sunnyd6907]

JackManic1984 Did you even watch the video or do you just enjoy talking out of your ass? One of the very first points that Ben made was that there are huge benefits to buffing existing cards instead of making new ones because the team will not have to spend resources on new card art, voice actors, golden animations etc. It could actually save them a lot of time and money. How about you make sure you're actually making informed statements before you say something like that.

[@YourPrinceStolas]

Isnt it obvious at this point that its not in the Devs best interest to be buffing older bad cards? Thats free shit! Why would they waste their time buffing cards you already have when they can just spend their time making NEW cards that you have to BUY. If you know hearthstone, you know that the money making aspect is what drives these new expansions.

[@LegendLeaguer]

Good will among your fans and players?

[@DeepDuh]

Twily Sparks The more cards you need, the more money and/or time people have to give to Blizzard.

[@SillyPutty125]

Twily Sparks If they buffed old legendaries, yes they would make money. People would buy packs to get the dust to craft them.

[@arcrafael]

Twily Sparks , its like: "Why buff a bad card, if we can use those bad cards as excuse for a new card?" I think, If there is no scenario for a card to be good, the card should be buffed (as example, the knife juggler been used on a beast deck instead of a raptor, where supposedly the raptor as any chance be the better choice).

[@Ogier78]

LegendLeaguer 10 bucks hero skin. Here is ur good will fanboys.

[@SgtBrutalisk]

This was the time before the Kripperrinos FeelsGoodMan

[@schreiba252]

yup

[@Nhyufll]

PMFsisa now there is nothing else

[@CHE6yp]

Feels like Kripp should work at Blizzard at this point.

[@onterntvarata2131]

CHE6yp He could, but Blizzard could just take his ideas for free. So, no point in hiring him.

[@CHE6yp]

Allahu Akbar Hah, true. Well, maybe he can consult them before they release expantions.

[@ampdgmr]

CHE6yp Kripp makes way more than what they would offer him to work for Blizzard... like, he currently makes at least 500k a year... that's being conservative.

[@bee2690]

ampdgmr LOL..

[@Thalanna]

ampdgmr Yeah, that's a myth actually. Making big money on KZbin is incredibly hard and it takes a lot more than 300-400k views per video to do it, unfortunately. A French humorist who makes 2-3 million views for each video reports making a couple grand per month (but he's dividing it with his brother, with whom he makes the videos). Since most countries don't have a tax system that takes into account the specificities of the job of KZbinr, you pay a lot of tax, you have to go through complex administrative shit, and if you add to that the amount of people using adblockers + the fact that ads don't pay that much money per view, you end up with a not-so-high revenue. I think Kripp' makes some decent money, but certainly not 500k/year.

[@mrhappy192]

Kripp = Communism Ben Brode = Capitalism

[@BITCOIlN]

1928374655647382 - Idiocracy.

[@MrClaike7]

1928374655647382 ofc, Making money is Ben Brodes job, exactly like Kripps. But Ben owns money with people buying packs, so he wants bad cards. Kripp does money with playing the game, so he wants exiting, good cards.

[@AirrrQu0tes]

1928374655647382 That's what Kripp has been doing in Greece.... brushing up on his Karl Marx with all his Greek pals. If we start getting riots in Canada we'll know who is responsible.

[@theconqueror1111]

Airrr Qu0tes "Another day" said the Kripp, taking his first strides off that long plane ride. A quick drive through downtown, Kripp doesn't remember Toronto being the same. Seeing a Hobo on the street, "Bad cards need buffs", Kripp yelped. Taking the Hobo by the hand the Hobo gasped "Buffs for me? Why didn't I think of that?" Soon after Kripp uploaded a video calling for the buffing all the shitty and bad in Toronto. Soon by the hundreds of thousands people took to the streets with their thumbs up. Toronto was forced to respond: "But we need bad parts of Toronto so people can see the good parts" said Rob Ford as he took another shot of cocaine. "If we buff all the poor people, then we won't be able to tell who are the rich people" Ford further exclaimed, wiping the sweat from his brow in a grimmicy grin, he had it figured out. "those are some interesting points of interest" thought the Kripp deeply, pausing to regain control of his stomach, "...but, can't we just buff the really shitty stuff at least?" Puddles poured around Rob Ford, before he could open his mouth fully to an answer, he busted into flames, sending meatish chunks about through a haze of numbing white powder in every direction. "Riot!" the masses screamed while pulling out their dongers, leaking a stenchy stew with fanning flames. Soon the whole city was red and yellow, a faint orange glow from the setting sun. Soon all the rich people were dead. No one could tell what was balanced or imbalanced. The Hobo went over to Kripp and placed his stinky ragged arm on the Kripp's hunched shoulder, then with a gentle whisper the Hobo said "looks like you, buffed Trump" in a single sweeping motion he pulled away his filthy rags, revealing himself in full.

[@MrClaike7]

Majordomo Executus beautiful

[@Barzhan13]

It was at this moment when Kripp compared Bloodfen Raptor to Haunted Creeper that Ben Brode listened and thought: "Well, what if we remove Haunted Creeper from the game? Maybe then Bloodfen Raptor will see play??", and got the idea of standard

[@spacemoose200]

If play testing is the main issue, they could make a game mode within Tavern Brawl that allows the players to test the proposed changes, then vote on the final decision as a community. It would save money for blizzard and allow them to allocate those resources to other departments, the players would take the pressure off play testing and enjoy being involved in the decision making process. Everybody wins :)

[@stebobibo]

SpaceMoose good idea!

[@70c3]

SpaceMoose The testing would also be of higher quality as the community can play far more games and design far more decks than the team of developers can. They could also charge gold or real money to do this (like arena) so this could directly make them money! Hope they try something like this.

[@gabrielgarcia1641]

SpaceMoose yeeeeeees please

[@sarccacious]

pay money to test for companies, you guys have lost your fucking minds. Im selling tea, but i dont know if it tastes good. If you pay me, ill let you test it for me.

[@ballsofsalsa01]

SpaceMoose it's called PBE , some blizzard games have it, but they don't do it for Hearthstone because that would ruin the hype and amazement of new cards. if a PBE is allowed like 1-2 weeks before the launch, those cards will be tested fully, videos uploaded and decks made, so they will realize how shitty but funny decks can be and won't test it on PvP match and the meta will set down way faster, what would make the game boring until the next expansion (that's why they come up with new sets like each 4-5 months

[@ThunderingRoar]

Ben vs Kripp in a 1v1 fist fight, who would win ?

[@maximilianmusterman6829]

Mirza Ajanovic the grill that gets him the food (idk maybe his mum or who is she? O.o)

[@Truone1980]

Mirza Ajanovic Brode is 3 times his size and krip has no heart or endurence hes totally soft. i got brode 1st rnd tko

[@Argumemnon]

Mirza Ajanovic Depends. Kripp could have enough salt on his person to blind and choke Brode, and give him kidney stones in the span of about a minute.

[@internetomatic]

Mirza Ajanovic dr boom

[@joemama114]

Mirza Ajanovic The HS Community!

[@RunderKeks28]

I wonder, how many games they spent testing Dr. Balanced...

[@darkflay12345]

RunderKeks28 Are you implying they test anything in this game?

[@undeadnightorc]

RunderKeks28 Or MajorDomo. I mean, even on paper, without testing, it doesn't take a braniac to realize what a shitty card MajorDomo is. In Dr.Boom's defense, even most Hearthstone "professionals" thought it was a bad card that would never see play. So I can sort of side on Blizzard for not seeing how OP it was.

[@mawillix2018]

Undead Nightorc "MajorDomo" is OP in the correct decks and the correct Meta. Im not going to tell you what the correct deck is cause if more people than me plays it and it's up on the internet people may actually learn to play around it, but as it is I am sitting at 71 wins / 83 games with it. Now instead of telling you my deck I can tell you last time when majordomo won me the game. I played against a mage a few games ago I was at 10 hp and had been removing as much of his stuff that I could every turn. He got a 3/4 spider tank when trading all his other minions (small mechs don't remember wich ones specifically) into my Deathlord, but I knew he was going to topdeck the obvious fireball sooner or later so I just droped down majordomo, it turns out he didn't draw a fireball and because of that I could first attack with majordomo into his face followed by killing my majordomo with shadow word: death and then I used die insect to rng for the win. in this manner if you play a late game deck or if the meta is very control oriented you can win with the massive value of majordomo. Other ways to use him effectively would be to place him vs a sylvanas or to use him as a heal when you're low on health.

[@RunderKeks28]

Undead Nightorc Yeah, but the pros weren't able to playtest it like 3 million games, which blizzard devs seem to do with every card... I was still pretty casual at the start of GvG, but how fast did people find out that he's OP as fuck? It was probably within a few weeks, right?

[@C3nturyFox]

William Nykvist haha lol MajorDomo just sucks ass.

[@SuperBrownCanadian]

The counter argument to his example of harvest golem saying that since this 3 drop is so good all other 3 drops instantly go down a tier would be to make a 3 drop card that has either: 1. A high risk high reward type card so risky players would play it and the reward would be better than having a harvest golem. 2. To make a card that has better utility than board presence but still has the same level of "impact" on the game.

[@TheSquareOnes]

Jay Amin Yeah, he made really strong points on average but it seems like he really overlooked the idea of synergy here which is weird since they just released an expansion about synergy. You don't have to make a card exactly as strong as a "better" one in a vacuum if you can bring other cards that will make the first card more powerful. Hobgoblin, tribes, interesting little interactions like alchemist + cabal shadow priest... they already know how to introduce cards that encourage playing "weaker" cards in order to end up with a deck that is competitive due to synergy rather than raw power. As an alternative to buffing "bad" cards they could just explore more of that in the future. Give the old things nobody uses a synergistic advantage with something else and they become viable again.

[@JoViljarHaugstulen]

The Message's Movies Well yeah.. synergy is important however cards like river crock and raptor won't see play over things like knife juggler or Amani Berserker simply because there is no neutral beast synergy so the beast tag has pretty much no use for most classes and even if there is beast synergy... there are also cases where you don't draw into the synergy cards as there aren't that many synergy cards... (and 2 drops aren't likely to stick around that long anyways) And if beast synergy was really good... it would likely push good cards like Savannah Highmane over the top Beast synergy Hunter: Timber wolf - +1 damage to friendly beasts (bad card advantage and almost only useful with unleash the hounds) Tundra Rhino - friendly beast gain charge (there are better and cheaper ways to gain burst damage that are more reliable) Scavenging hyena - is kind of good with unleash the hounds but otherwise it is pretty bad Starving buzzard - is overpriced and generally works best with unleash the hounds (but in that case cult master pretty much works better and doesn't require beasts to work) King of beasts - is a mediocre card... if you have 1 other beast you gain a fen creeper if you have 2 beasts you have a druid of the claw Houndmaster - a generally good card if it hits and it is mediocre if it misses (1 mana overpriced) bestial wrath - potentially good however can be hard to make work in that you need a beast on the board for it to do anything and even then it isn't amazing call pet - good if it hits... horrible if it doesn't Kill command - all around good card given the class it is in Druid Druid of the fang - mediocre but decent if it hits (and it isn't killed by BGH) And for all other classes.. the beast tag has no value at all...

[@TheSquareOnes]

Jo Viljar Haugstulen I was talking about future releases. They can print neutral "beast-matters" cards, they can print cards that buff windfury minions, they can even print things that trigger off of specific card names (and show the willingness to make such unusual effects reality). Anything that is currently unplayable can be made playable with new cards, they just have to want to do it.

[@aice336]

Jo Viljar Haugstulen but if the buff for beasts only works good with beasts that cost 2 mana or less it could affect the raptor and the river croc but not the savannah highmane ... and if this buff ist only good with beasts having high attack damage then the raptor would be better than the creeper. i think this is possible for sure dont you?

[@oxidiana93]

This video taught me some things: - as a company, having a guy that actually listen to and talks back to people, giving feedback and reasons is always a good thing - now i get why certain cards are not buffed: the example of brode was bad, 'cause he picked a good card, but it's true, you should think of the card context, that can change in the future, and indirectly buff that card - Blizzard actually care about the balance of the game, and there's a reason for most of the change - Having bad cards helps discover mechanics from being TOO powerful (in arena thet are already A LOT useful), and brings more difference in Arena. Also, cards like Thrallmar Farseer, a bad one , could be useful in certain scenarios, and would be awesome to see those scenarios, more then just "play good cards till one dies" style. #angrychickenFTW

[@SVanTha]

Kripp tosses Ben Brode an ice-cold budweiser. Ben snatches it out of the air and lets out a big guffaw, "my favorite," he bellows. Kripp smiles wryly, "its the least i can do after you up'd the friends list to 200." Ben quickly chugs it down. Kripp looks at him askance, "you nervous?" he asks. "a little," Ben replies. As kripp walks over to reassure him, Rania appears out of the bedroom, "i'm ready for you boys," she says sultrily.

[@snowballandpals]

Pls continue

[@aminus3765]

You're evil. Love it.

[@TheRedSpyInTheBase]

And so Ben walks into the bedroom, "Ok guys it looks like my ride is here" says Kripp. He looks into the camera. "And il see you guys tomorrow"

[@Edamori]

SVanTha Welp, i know what copypasta I'll be eating tonight on Kripp's Stream

[@dustinbreakey4707]

SVanTha rip

[@MrSkyCryss]

Compare Elven archer with Ironforge Rifleman. +1/+1 costs 2 mana -.-

[@mynicknamewasst0len]

Flaviu Crystian compare Voidwalker with Silverback Patriarch... 2 mana for +0/+1 and beast (sure, it's warlock card, but come on, Blizzard)

[@777mikey1]

Goldshire footman is one less health than void walker for the same mana plus void is a demon but it's warlock specific so it's not that imbalanced

[@JustaSmilingHedgehog]

Rookie Clearly that card required months of testing and rebalancing.

[@charlesshea7974]

Flaviu Crystian FFS blizz make it 2 mana. It might make it BARELY playable in maybe a fringe deck. MAYBE.

[@IliasMWr]

You need to realise however that the card on itself brings a cost of its own. Let me give you an example to make this as transparent as possible; Let's assume you could have 30 wisps in your deck. That would be 0 cost 1/1 for your whole deck! That's insane value! One could say that you have a deck that sums up to 0 cost summon a 30/30. The fallacy in this logic is of course that (a) I need to draw these cards somehow and (b) no matter how infinite a value a card may seem to bring to the table, decks are limited to 30 cards, meaning that taking up deckslots for weak minions and/or spells is never a good idea. So in a deck with 30 wisps you would run out of steam on turn 1. If you played against a rogue and he Prep'd + FoK you would have ended the game then and there. For the same reason you can't really play decks that have 2x wisps, 2x target dummy, 2x goldshire footman, 2x voidwalker etc, because they will eventually run out of steam and get stomped by the enemy's curving mana crystals into minion relevant power. So, an Elver Archer could be argued is worse than an Ironforge Rifleman, as he offers the same effect for a small bit better stats which allow him to trade into another 2-drop for example. Elven Archer can't do the same and if you play two, well. you just used two deck slots to do the same thing that Ironforge Rifleman could do in the first place. Hope that makes sense :)

[@wazuponthebus8718]

plenty of tests (looks at purify)

[@wazuponthebus8718]

ALGI GAMING Gtfo with your scams.

[@noahlizer]

This aged very poorly

[@Nycro4]

16:11 to skipperino broderino

[@zeagias]

Dick Chappy No. You do not skip the Manlicorn.

[@mob1u5]

Dick Chappy thx chode

[@theconqueror1111]

Dick Chappy ty bro, saved my life

[@tmujir955]

Dick Chappy I don't get it, you want to skip seeing what an actual Blizzard dev is saying to see what some dude in his basement thinks?

[@Tx66]

Nycro ***** I laughed harder than I should have :D

[@deniskramer3562]

We need bad cards in the game. For example: We have the Shredders or the Unstable Portal. And there must be a chance, that these cards produce bad minions.

[@silentsniper1516]

Simple. When buffing bad cards use mostly battlecry's.

[@Liofa73]

No... Bad cards are there as padding. They are there to necessitate the opening of more packs to get good cards. They want us to buy more to get what we want.

[@austinbentley6471]

silentsniper1516 That doesn't even work for Unstable Portal...

[@Godzirra-San]

Austin Bentley Ah, but he used the word simple at the beginning of what he said so he must be super smart!

[@wowser4life]

Austin Bentley that is the point

[@randomgtafan]

Skipperino Kripparino : buffing cards everyone already has means less money for Blizzard

[@saschaschluter6889]

I absolutely LOVED hearing direct explanations from you, Ben Brode. getting insight like that is absolutely awesome, and I have to completely agree on the finetuning phase point. thats excactly what I love right now, just fine tuning decks I make up myself. I still do that with different decks, not just the same like Kripp suggests!

[@mortalcoilerinokripperino110]

where are all the kripperinos?

[@PabloSa0032]

Welcome to emerald dream enjoy your stay

[@duckerinokripperino7067]

quack

[@TheGodSaw]

Thing is you dont make money buffing old cards people allready have.

[@armanbanihashemi2358]

^ 😂

[@GeneralProfessor]

Godsaw Time balance patches with the release of new skins or cosmetics, like they're doing with Tavern Brawl and cover the costs.

[@SillyPutty125]

GeneralProfessor It's more that work spent on old cards isn't work being spent on new cards. Personally I'd rather get the next expansion sooner than have some terrible cards upgraded to mediocre cards I still won't use. That being said, some buffs really shouldn't require testing. The point isn't so much to make the cards competitive as it is to add flavor to boring cards that are never played. Balance shouldn't be effected by the changes.

[@DayOfCasual]

Godsaw You do, because it forces new players to get more of old packs cuz of bigger density of powerful cards in them. Look at kripp and trump: they already don't care about packs, prolly they got 80-90% cards already and any buff for them is meta-changer. For new player it will sometimes make them go "Ohh shit my Warlock Zoo now needs this card, better get some packs so I get some dust so I can craft it. Here blizzard, my 49,99$!"

[@fritt_wastaken]

Wait.. They talk so much about balance.. Balance? In HS? Is Dr Boom balanced? Is face hunter balanced? etc. If they "spend so much time to testing and balancing" then why is this game so fckin unbalanced?? (compared to other CCG)

[@SillyPutty125]

fritt wastaken It actually isn't as bad as you think. Dr Boom isn't run in all good decks. Face hunter isn't commonly played at the top of the ladder (hybrid is). You move down from legend to ranks 1-5, and you see literally dozens of different decks. I would argue that piloted shredder is more imbalanced that Dr Boom, but since it's not a legendary, no one is complaining about it.

[@oBCHANo]

fritt wastaken Because the game is made to be more RNG based than other CCG, because that is part of making skill less relevant and the game more noob friendly. So balance isn't that important. The same reason that shit games like COD have purposefully OP guns.

[@magicalwolf8]

fritt wastaken face hunter is fine... every game has an aggro deck... some players just prefer to play aggro its not unbalanced at all

[@cursinsquirl]

fritt wastaken I agree that there is a balance problem, but not really in the single card category? sure there are some cards that are run in a LOT of decks (doctor boom, sylvanus, piloted shredder) but they themselves dont completely set the meta. it's more decks like patron warrior (which has like 2 different otk potentials at

[@fritt_wastaken]

I mean there is no such balance that developers should afraid to break by making some fun changes. They already have dr.Boom, shreder and some totally game-changing decks so there is nothing wrong to make nozdormu 6/10 for example... it will never become a boom anyway

[@Lex_Koncord]

Ben, loved hearing your thoughts in person! Do this more often!

[@jacobg7733]

Love the interaction between devs and the community, it makes Hearthstone that much more enjoyable!

[@TheDancerMacabre]

I actually like how B.Brode addressed most of the issue. He was very clear, transparent, and even brought up examples to his counter arguments (Such as myself, who wants frequent updates and a chaotic meta, to those players that love stability to fine tune decks. However I would still like to see some "lateral" powershifts. Not a buff or a nerf, but reallocation some stat points. Before BRM, I would've loved to see Nozdormu become a 5/5 for 5 mana, but now with Dragon synergy, I'm not sure how it'll affect cards. Or Sludge Belcher being a 3/4 Taunt that summons a 2/2 taunt to bring Taz'dingo back in the meta, or making Nerubar Weblord a 2/3 instead of a 1/4 so it can actually trade if need be, or making Illidan Stormrage a 6/6 instead of a 7/5, may be a buff however as it'll be BGH immune.

[@fritt_wastaken]

YOU FACE BEN BRODE! EREDAR LORD OF THE HAHAHA 4Head LEGION 4Head 4Head 4 Head

[@ivanshao3879]

5:20 I really wonder how many testing u did with PURIFY

[@jackfox9893]

Developer insight: Purify

[@David-wy3dt]

it is cool card which enabeld tons of memes, a whole new priest deck and blizzard realized they could change arena with this

[@KamendereCZ]

It's quite fun to watch the Nozdormu part (25:45) with the auto subtitles on.

[@Chimeratics]

Ben Brode should write a book on game design/gaming culture. I'd read the fuck out of it.

[@qualequaleson9611]

Great response from Brode. He managed to explain many design points and he did it with brevity. It's a shining example of what I've said before: Boy am I glad Kripp is a gamer and not a game designer. He simply just doesn't know much about the subject. Kripp would turn HS to shit in a week if given the chance. He should briefly end the video thanking Brode for teaching him some things rather than thinking he is in a position to retort, as he was indeed schooled here. But predictably, in the end the mighty Krippster is just a little too fond of listening to the voice in his head that tells him how brilliant he is, to invoke the humility he'd need for such an exercise.

[@Wrokzor]

this was AWESOME! we need as much ben brode as possible

[@z3rocool420]

Love this kind of stuff, hope they continue to communicate with the community.

[@heinakynsi]

I don't really mind Raptor and River Croc etc being terrible, there will eventually be better versions of them, I just don't like missed potential with unique cards like Nozdormu, Hemet, Majordomo, Mekgineer, Chromaggus, Neptulon, Rend, Troggzor and so on. Yes, some of these are kind of playable in some decks, but it's saddening to see so much cool stuff being pretty much never played! If Hearthstone had new cards coming out faster, it wouldn't be that bad, but with this pace it feels like such a waste :(

[@RorinkoO]

If only kripp was developer of the game...1st week flamestrike removed from the game. 2nd week the most popular deck called "GolemRevenge" witch is a Golem 7/7 battelcry summon another 7/7 golem. 3rd week " you cant use a top deck card this turn , if its a boardclear card you cant use it 5 turns "

[@austinbentley6471]

RorinkoO I know you are joking, but the idea of not being able to use topdecks actually seems really interesting. I think it would make the game much more tactical, although it probably wouldn't fit in Hearthstone.

[@MysticleMonster]

Austin Bentley Not being able tp play Topdeck cards is basically impossible to implent, as basically 85% of the cards could be a Topdeck card for different situations

[@austinbentley6471]

Asgard Ragna Nah, i ment you can't play the card you have drawn that turn, regardless of whether or not it is good in that situation. It's basically the same as seeing the top card of your Deck, but with the difference, that the developers could add more cards, that play around with it, like a "Charge", that let's you play the card right away or cards that can't be played for more than one turn.

[@zackhart9112]

RorinkoO mm lemme guess, u either play huntard or zoolock...

[@kevinspies4559]

LOL when he goes on that nozdormu spasm i love it

[@ntucker]

Bad cards must exist for the 'summon random minion' 'discover whatever'. Basically bad cards existing balances getting random cards because if they were always amazing you'd never play straight up cards.

[@gavinwightman4038]

Well then don't buff the stats but buff the effects. Certain card effects only work with their niche deck, so buffing effects wont change their power level in a typical rng summon

[@zoomX240]

he should've just said releasing new expansions = money so they don't wanna buff the old cards

[@kathytrobovic3157]

Skii Mask His view was that adding new cards is better the buffing because of many reasons- but also those new cards will work better then buffing a old card into something that is just better then what you add. Or even think of it like this- buffing cards limit the new cards you can make-and sorry if you don't want to pay for more awesome- fun Cards- I'll be having fun on you're behalf.

[@ethanwoodhouse9906]

Skii Mask If you make a GOOD game the money comes.... im sure every developer knows this...if it makes the game better they will get more players and they will make more money.

[@TehOddMenOut]

Ethan Woodhouse That is some seriously stupid shit. Maybe that applies for stand alone console/PC games but with a strategic card game that is always evolving, word of mouth and game quality don't matter when it comes to making money. Their profit does not come from new players, it comes from the current players who want some variety/want the new best stuff, and the players who come back to the game for the expansion. Someone does not look at Hearthstone and think "Oh this looks boring, or not worth my time" and then decide to pick it up once new cards come out, or the game changes, because they won't be paying attention. And the cards in the game will have absolutely no effect on the decision of someone who is looking at it for the first time

[@davidchristensen9656]

Skii Mask very easy thing to say, and veryyy orignal

[@kms5656]

that is EXACTLY the reason....its Blizzard...company motto, "how can we rip people off for every last cent"

[@Marcopolo-pm8ty]

I just wanted yo say how cool it is to have the designer from a major studio responding directly to the community. Look at last years game, assasin's creed, watch dogs, etc... tons of games broken on launch, and for month after that, and the only response people got was what? maybe some fake apologies in a communicate ? So thank you very much Ben Brode for this kind of attitude, I wish this was more of a standard in the industry.

[@zukuu]

Love the way of communication.

[@eagamesClucas]

bottomline is that buffing old cards doesn't make them any money

[@esdev92]

His room and beard are nicer. Ben 1:0 Kripp

[@Saneyboo]

Very nice to see some communication from the brains of the game, i really like seeing a "full" resposnse compared to a limited twitter message. I hope to see more of these as long as they are relevant.

[@SpankyRiche]

Great video. I hope to see Ben Brode do more of these.

[@LebrieLP]

I can't agree with both of you: Kripparrian: - I think giving cards new abilities is bad because as Ben Brode said, it's pretty difficult to balance these abilities and if they add new ability for the Raptor they could make a new card with this ability instead. - I don't know why you always say that the basic cards need a buff. Your examples were Magma Rage and Raptor. I again agree with Ben Brode, that these cards help a new player to learn the game mechanics. A new player can realize after some time on his own that Magma Rage, which was in the tutorial deck, isn't good. I think it’s good to have a 3 mana 2/2 which deals 1 damage. (I know that you said at the end that this argument convinces you too) Ben Brode: - I think buffing not-basic-cards is really necessary and would help to build new decks. Some of the non-basic cards are pretty bad and a players who gets it, is unpleased with it. For example: Recycle, misdirection, spellbender, cobalt Guardian, headcrack, kidnapper, dust devil and pit lord). I only play gimmick-decks and a card has to be really bad that even I don’t use it. - I think the card which need mostly a buff are these which were nerved before. I hated the old undertaker hunter, but this new undertaker is unplayable even in a deathrattle deck. So I made one whithout this card. Also savagery and starving buzzard are pretty bad. In every beast-hunter deck I still play the buzzard with call beast, but if I would want to make the deck better, I should cut this card. This card should be changed again not in the old form but in a playable form. Thanks for reading this, I don’t why I wrote this. :D

[@Talon323]

there always should be sone actually bad cards, what else would the hipsters play??

[@Yooooooooo77]

I play Frostwolf Grunt in all my decks.

[@chillypep2]

Frostwolf Grunt and Booty Bay BG are my babies

[@alext.3522]

Well they could always ranked q as hunter

[@ballsofsalsa01]

sakmi kuhl op broken ass busted cards are so mainstream

[@bobsmith1894]

Just the simple fact that Ben Brode took time in his day to post a video, is SO promising. I'm so glad this has happened, ngl. I don't even care about the subject matter, I'm just loving that Ben shows hope for the community ^_^ Please keep the videos coming Ben!!!

[@Quinlan042]

I really enjoyed the video and i wish i could see more of Ben Brode on KZbin, this was great.

[@TheScorchedFlame]

All I want is my fucking King Krush buff.

[@damienweyrauch1124]

hope that doesn't happen, disenchanted my golden Krush

[@robertcummings2445]

You have a golden King Krush Lucky he's my fave card in the game cause its a mother fucking T rex!!!! :D

[@damienweyrauch1124]

Robert Cummings yea, he was pretty sweet and always got the "wow" emote, but as it came down to it, sylvanas being neutral and just better made me disenchant him

[@robertcummings2445]

Damien Weyrauch you're right but ITS A MOTHER FUCKING T REX!!! ENOUGH SAID :D!!!!

[@gorgiraffe]

i also disenchanted my golden king krush, but for yogg

[@peterback481]

The title should be: "How good is Ben Brode?"

[@MrDavo511]

Was this the first community interaction kripp had with brode? Look at how far we've come

[@MsFreemano]

This should happen more often, great to hear from devs

[@mmb6527]

I'd like Blizz to explain Arcane Golem A slightly OP card, made completely useless (unless it's summoned randomly) What was the idea behind nerfing it to pointlessness?

[@Saintzel]

Matt B cause charge isn't "interactive"

[@cruxious7147]

Well nerfing it out of the game sure is interactive and opens up a lot of new possibilities.

[@mardini]

krip i got a fun deck building match idea for u. Each player pick a deck for the opponent, so players will be playing with the shittiest deck possible and try to win.

[@stebobibo]

mardini That's actually a really cool idea. Kripp should try doing this in his one of his future Challengestone tournements.

[@matthewallenblack]

mardini I'm in! Because whenever I try to build a good deck from scratch, it turns out to be the absolute worst. I'm pretty sure I'd win this game mode...sadly.

[@janiheikkonen8864]

mardini he's already talked about in his stream and even done this on his stream. Not sure if he's done a KZbin video on it though.

[@Hopesedge]

mardini it'd just be a bunch of 1 drops or a bunch of the most expensive minions making you lose in either early or late game. Sounds alittle lame.

[@morantNO1]

mardini That is a good idea for tavern brawl.

[@slayers05]

Excellent video, i like the brainstorm on buffing cards and the official reply xD

[@RafaelGonzalez88888]

30 minute video? i better start bringing popcorn for these videos/almost documentaries

[@melchiordeduser5967]

How many hours did they spend testing Dr. Boom?

[@moonrazor2039]

Ben Brode? Kreygasm

[@Eclipse8502]

that Nozdormu point by Kripp was great

[@CharlieCleveland]

Rock on, Ben. Thanks so much, very insightful! -Designer of Subnautica

[@Haywire5714]

I think that blizzard should have a group of people that only work on card balance and a group of people that only create new cards so that the "it takes away time from" excuse won't exist.

[@Nicoarielpkr]

[Hearthstone] How good is Ben Brode?

[@Capt.Thunder]

I appreciate Brode taking the time to talk on this matter, and I have mixed feelings about some of his points. On the one hand, I completely understand Brode's argument about the testing time, that's a very valid point. I also understand in principle that at the end of the day, they want to make money out of releasing new content and they'd rather you bought new packs of cards than crafted an old one using dust or whatever. And yeah, sure, there should probably be a time in the meta when things slow down and settle a bit, but those periods often go on for such a long time, especially in the later parts of the gaps between expansions, and it would be nice to occasionally have a couple of small changes at a carefully thought out interval that shakes things up if things get a bit too monotonous, or whatever. However, I do rather disagree with his point about "players coming back to the game and not wanting to see cards that they knew have changed" that they feel lost; I disagree because that suggests that they even remember that the card existed, and let's face it, so many cards simply are not played under any circumstance; to a lot of returning people, the changed card might as well have been from a new expansion because it will be completely new to them. And whilst I agree that it's great to have cards that are "not optimal", having a card that is just plain "bad" is not good. A card which is "not optimal" requires an interaction to make it good, like with the Hobgoblin as was mentioned, whereas a card which is "bad" will never be played. What I'm getting at is, a card needs a small situational value, and a lot of cards (such as Priestess of the Moon, for instance) are not even situationally good, there are few, if any redeeming qualities compared to anything else in its power group. I don't see a card which could interact with Priestess of the Moon and make it worth playing over another card under any circumstances. And yes, you need to be careful, but surely your data (as with Al'Akir) will prove to be more concrete than opinions. Currently, I can't see the Priestess of the Moon having that potential to be insane value like Al'Akir. What I want to see out of Tavern Brawl is using it as a casual forum to try out potential ideas for potential changes to terrible cards in a relaxed, funsie sort of way and get a reaction from the players - how much did they appreciate the change, was it enough to make it worth consider changing - on top of simply goofing around and having fun with it. I just want cards to have situational usefulness at worst and not to be just flat out worse than existing cards. Pirate decks have been proven to be underwhelming, so why not change the Bloodsail Corsair that little bit to make him destroy a weapon? He still wouldn't be played, because Ooze isn't and Ooze is a more value card, but he would have that situational usefulness - he only gets value if the enemy has a weapon out, and even then, he wants it to have more than one charge on it. Make the Captain's Parrot cause the pirate summoned to cost 1 less, or maybe make it a random pirate so your deck doesn't get lower and could possibly (if you're lucky) get you a third copy of a useful pirate card which would make it worth considering in a pirate deck. There are all sorts of little changes you could do which wouldn't destroy the balance of the game, but would give that slightly fresh feeling. It isn't something you should rush, but I would appreciate a willingness on Brode's part to experiment a little and "consider" the occasional tweak here and there. He doesn't have to rush to it, or devote significant resources to it, just come out with the occasional change that will get people thinking about that card they disenchanted ages ago and no longer have. Brode probably will never do that, as shown in his video, he's made up his own mind about the pros and cons - he was more than being devil's advocate most of the time, although I appreciate his candour. But it is my hope that he will occasionally consider an interesting change as something which would allow some long-forgotten cards to be appreciated again, rather than immediately spat upon and be a source of discontent/frustration for players when they open a pack. Cards aren't supposed to foster negative feelings, they're supposed to be things you enjoy, or at least do not mind having. That's my 2 cents.

[@Jubanen12]

That - Nozdormu / Blow my mind part made me lol... great xD

[@Dudebug2000]

I'm in a coma... Pls let me skip someday kripp. Please...

[@AlexeyFilippenkoPlummet]

Kripp seems to ignore a simple fact that Hearthstone's purpose isn't about making a masterpiece game like chess, but rather about making money. It's a business, and developers need to motivate people to buy stuff. Card tiers is one of the most effective ways to do so, that's why there are shit but affordable cards and better but more expensive cards, so people see these effective cards and start paying money to get them. It's also why Blizzard prefers to make expansions rather then wiggle around the existing cards: every time you make an expansion, people get back to the game, people are excited and people pay money. So I think Kripp didn't even try to understand the logic behind decisions here.

[@Rasmussf]

I love this kindda of updates directly from the developers! Keep them comming, i will be waiting !

[@FrozenLemur]

I think it was really awesome of Brode to make a face to face video about their thought process and ideas :)

[@TeamBbAze]

feels like i'm watching god speaking

[@theimmux3034]

TeamBbAze same

[@Winning781]

Sorry Krippy, gotta go with Ben Brodes on this one. His counter argument comes from field experience. He sounds like he knows what hes talking about. You definitely have the best creative ideas though.

[@Liofa73]

Kripp has played enough games to have an opinion. Being close to design doesn't necessarily make you objective.

[@Winning781]

Yeah he does have his opinion. I respect his opinions and to be honest I like the idea, But leaving the cards alone seem better for the game as a whole.

[@milojong]

AG Wreck According to this logic WoW devs also know whats best for the game

[@Crunkmastaflexx]

That was awesome! More Ben Brode plz!

[@Nerdescent]

I really like this kind of video. Do more of it in the future

[@bigmoose7]

Nice to see that blizzard pays attention to its player base

[@LordHypnos4]

And doesn't do anything about it

[@strongside4565]

I'm glad I looked at the date on this vid because Al'Akir being a near guaranteed win is a really stupid thing to say.

[@darthmortus5702]

First of all it is great for Ben Brode to make a vlog like this, I hope he makes many more. Now I have two issues with that he said: First, I can understand that buffing cards requires you to retest them and doing this mid development cycle would slow you down. But why not simply test a few (3-6) of the old cards that you want to buff with the new cards, that should not slow you down noticeably. Then you can either release them with the new cards or a few days earlier to spice things up in the meta. Second, as long as the cards get strictly buffed (like making an Ironforge Rifleman a 2/3 or 3/2) returning or new players would have no reason to be displeased, in 99% of the cases their cards just got better, what is there not to like? And as others said, even if these cards become playable (certainly not top tier) there will still be plenty of power difference between cards for new players to understand and grow in skill as a result. Bonus points: if a card is strictly buffed you don't need to offer refund dust for it.

[@TrentCook]

I think its cool that the devs watch the player videos / thoughts / and even take player ideas to the round table .. even if they dont come about. Good job Kripp .. good job Ben Brode.

[@steampunkerella]

i'd agree with ben more if there weren't SO many bad cards tho

[@robertonome2448]

"I think nozdormu is a good card" Whaaaat?

[@brankoostojic5325]

I'm amazed by the arguments brought up by Ben. They are right on the point. Especially the part where bad cards are used as the learning curve about key concepts. There will always be bad cards, and additions will always make them. There is a lot of hype and excitement when an expansion hits, and in case of modified cards that would be lost, and i personally love it! On a side note, the fact, is game decisions aren't completely up to the developers, but the managers and the money guys, and that is a limiting factor. There is just more money to be made releasing expansions than doing modifications on existing cards. Ben, thank you for such an elaborate and honest talk. Keep up the amazing work!

[@NoChillWindYetiHS]

I'm just glad Ben Brode actually addresses the community this way. Very professional in my opinion.

[@Frog_Cat_]

Ben's right. Kripp is sorta right - his changes would make the game better FOR HIM. He would be less frustrated when drafting by seeing better choices. However he lacks the perspective of the different types of players.

[@RaphaelWendorff]

Frog Cat Yeah, Ben's right. Because he obviously knows that the main part about Hearthstone is making money. And more bad cards means more packs are bought = more money. Ben's right about not changing that. Every other decision would be foolish.. for the company at least. I mean, just look at what they just announced: the hero-skins, that are almost too expensive. That shows that they are just after the money (obviously) and PLEASE keep this in mind when listening to his arguments (which are pretty ridiculous if you have realise that).

[@manko4661]

officialshutterfly No... you are, you completely missed his point.

[@Frog_Cat_]

Forcy24 It's a shame the one of the few times devs try to talk to players, they get this response. It's clear a lot of Kripp's viewers just don't understand (same with kripp himself). Either his points fly over the heads of some people (officialshutterfly's comment shows that) or people like you just ignore every point to just bash them for being greedy.

[@C3nturyFox]

Frog Cat lool " different types of players" - so what type would this be? " don't understand (same with kripp himself)" - for example? im not seeing any points he doesnt get.

[@RaphaelWendorff]

I'm sorry, I kinda exaggerated, but I wanted to make sure that people understand what his motives should be as the head of a free to play card game. You seem to forget that and you should atleast admit that he didn't really get to the point of Kripp's arguments and tried really hard to find contra-arguments (that's probably why most people find his response a nice try to get in contact with the community but sadly also a bit ridiculous on the other hand). But maybe I think to complicated about him. I'm at least excited about more videos like this as he mentioned.

[@krokodeal1]

So he's saying people will be mad when they return and the war golem in their deck got buffed?

[@bertrandspuzzle]

Krip had a very good point about Nozdormu not being playable in constructed. I would love to play against Nozdormu more often.

[@TehOak]

Holy shit, Kripp. This is a massive step forward in being a conduit between Blizzard and the community. Well done, m8.

[@johnryan3622]

Ben says that they spend weeks testing out how cards will change the game. Based on this: 1. They have no idea what's actually going to happen, so the point is irrelevant, or 2. Then know how impactful (or unimpactful) a new expansion will be, because Mechs dominated really hard, and still do. Dragons are crap. Tell us which is is Blizz, did you intend mechs to me amazing always and dragons to be crap, or is your testing just not that important?

[@johnryan3622]

John Ryan As a side note, I respect what Ben said, and I respect his experience and position. But as a player, I agree almost entirely with Kripp.

[@ethanvanvliet7900]

John Ryan still?

[@derpaboopderp1286]

2 years later... be careful what you wish for

[@NieKohamDzastina]

TL:DW Benbrode says "Buffing would give you new cards for free. We prefer to give you new cards from paid expansions"

[@PerrysGaming]

Wow Ben did a great job explaining that. I wasn't expecting that type of response.

[@MrJarth]

Ben Brode explained his positions excellently. It was also nice to see someone who likes this game as much or even more then Kripp.

[@ryanmatsua33]

The problem with your interpretation is that cards like Bloodfen Raptor do add something to the game. They're beginner cards. They are MEANT to be underpowered. They're meant to be replaced. A vanilla basic card is a perfect "guideline" for new players. A 3/2 for 2 is a raptor, a 2/3 for 2 is a crocolisk. You CAN'T have all cards balanced.

[@petrmuzik3497]

Fiery winaxe, novice engineer are just some examples that really basic (beginner) cards can be alot of good. This isnt MMORPG where you need bad gear first. In my opinion bad cards are unnecessary.

[@petrmuzik3497]

I like hearthstone alot, but you can see blizzard makes alot of bad decision. Take knife juggler for example. From the release of the game, it was OP card. Mostly because you dont have other 3/2 2 mana good cards. Knife juggler wasnt issue anymore, because you could replace him with new good 2 mana cost cards. And Blizzard nerfs him.. a) they nerf him wayy too late b) they nerf him in time, when it is unneccesary, because you already have strong replacements. Atleast 2/2 is still good. Other nerfs ? simply unplayable.. most of them. Blizzard should really hire people like Kripp, Amaz, Trump etc.. because they would make alot more relevelant nerfs.

[@ryanmatsua33]

Fiery War Axe is simple enough to be a good card on its own purely because of stats. Overall, you can't do the same with minions. Like I said, you NEED simple cards to make new players focus on what's important (learning the rules of the game). If you start randomly buffing stuff, not only they're probably not going to be playable in the meta anyway, it'll make the life of new players harder. This is not an MMO, but it's not a matter of gear progression only (a little bit, though), it's more of a matter of giving new players basic toys to learn the game.

[@petrmuzik3497]

I agree with you that you need simple cards. But there is difference between simple card and bad card.. just look at warsong commander.. it isnt good even for new player. I know it is nerfed card but still.. novice engineer is simple card and it is still playable in some decks. Thats what i mean - simple, sometimes playable but not literally bad Edmilson Rocha Lima

[@alphen9676]

+Petr Mužík To add to this, Warsong is like Bolster. They buff certain minions but they take up valuable card space in doing so. You don't run warsong because spending that card space and mana to buff your 2 kork rons is wasteful. Likewise you don't run bolster because on average, you are not going to have more than 2 taunts in a warrior deck. They lean too heavily on increasing the power of your deck while costing heavily on the consistency of your deck. This is valuable for new players to learn. I can't just throw in cards and a situational buffs, I need to evaluate my deck as a whole. I need to consistently have cards too play and warsong isn't consistent enough for the cost of having her in my deck. That is important to learn.

[@superbob24]

Did you consider that Knife Juggler is flatout better than Bloodfen Raptor cause Knife Juggler is a rare and Bloodfen is a basic?

[@kawaiarinokripperino9719]

I wonder why ppl.compare war golam to dr boom then

[@PsycheMonkey]

superbob24 Raptor is a beast, which is an expensive title

[@TheSquareOnes]

superbob24 Did you consider that Piloted Shredder is better than Wee Spellstopper because Spellstopper is an epic and Shredder is a common? Wait...

[@TheRedSpyInTheBase]

Yeah but yeti and tons of class specific cards are basic and still good. Maybe it's just basic cards in general are supposed to be worse but with exceptions. Felguard is a shit rare, anima golem and kidnapper are shit epics and hemet and nozdormu are shit legendaries.

[@BurkusCat]

superbob24 I hate the current way rarities are done. Not saying this is true but: I hate the idea that the most rare cards should be the best. It is like in Call of Duty, people think the last gun you unlock should be the best most powerful one because less people will be using it and when they prestige they lose it, what a terrible idea for balance. Rarity should not be a factor in balance. Just because less people have it does not mean it can be a more powerful card (it makes it worse because people that don't have it have less to fight back with).

[@trishula-8037]

I really enjoyed Ben's response and I really appreciate that he made a video about it. I feel like a video like this is a bit more personally and I like it.

[@gumgumbegum]

ben convinced me with the new player arguement and this was a very good discussion, much more fun than reading into 1 sentence from twitter.

[@ReunTeun]

PogChamp

[@JohnClausen]

Why would a free-to-play game buff the free cards everyone gets when they could just make new cards to get your to spend money?

[@richardrobinson4559]

I enjoyed watching this. That they looked at your video and Ben took time to comment on it was nice. I like the sharing of ideas, processes, and explanations. It makes me as a player feel more a part of the game. It also helps me understand why certain things are done certain ways. And if I might not always like it, understanding can give me peace about it. This video leaves me with a very good impression of the game. It was also nice to see you excited about Ben's video responding to your comments. You are good for the game and I really enjoy watching your videos. Thanks!

[@igorqmoreira]

WP, Kripp. Even if nothing comes out of it, it generated great discussions and it is really cool to hear both sides.

[@xstoofpeer]

If you buff the bad cards, there are going to be new ''bad cards''. The basic cards should always be kinda bad in my opinion.

[@potentiallyRealWarrenGraham]

xstoofpeer So the new players get shrekt in casual even harder, great idea! That is how you attract an audience.

[@AndreyGP]

Warren Graham No, I think it's ok to make most of the basic cards bad, so people have a reason to play the game and buy packs. Blizzard makes money, release more content, I buy new content, everyone is happy.

[@potentiallyRealWarrenGraham]

Giovani Andrey Somebody that cannot win a single game because they only have crap will not stay long enough to buy packs. They will rather spend their day crying in forums about how p2w this game is. Rightfully so.

[@xstoofpeer]

Warren Graham The very new players sit most of the time around rank 25-20 anyway against fellow scrubs.

[@xstoofpeer]

Warren Graham And i know this game is kinda p2w, especially the fucking expansions that cost 25 euros. A lot of my friends who were newer players just bought those expansions because it was almost impossible for them to catch up. Even me myself (who has been playing since beta) don't have all the expansion wings yet.

[@judgeomega]

Brode is flat out wrong when talking about 'some cards have to be bad'. Every card should have a use. Even if they have a general powerlevel lower than others, they could be given situational effects that only shine when up against the top tier cards.

[@Chipmonkcheeks53]

This is a wonderful idea. Good job guys!

[@fyrestorme]

dr. cal lightman would have a field day with this video

[@TomNuorivaara]

Really enjoyed this discussion. I'm more on Ben's side on this matter but it's good there's a discussion going on between players and Blizzard.