(Hearthstone) Shudderno Shaman in Whizbang's Workshop!

[@arctikc5889]

I think Brian brings up a good point about not having any way to interact with Helya plagues now that steam cleaner is gone. Invalidating the highlander payoffs with no counter play is the kind of feelsbadman you’d want to avoid as a dev

[@ethanrussow9262]

In my own words it’s a shutdown counter, if plagues go online your deck is shutdown and the best option is to concede most of the time. That’s an awful play experience and should be prevent at all costs

[@GingerNinja303]

At the same time, Reno is just so disgustingly powerful that I don’t really have a hard time being ok with such a consistent shutdown. Now the other Highlander payoffs are bad, and don’t deserve the hit, but Reno himself does. It’s an unfortunate circumstance.

[@Ninguin]

@@GingerNinja303 That's fair except Reno is far from the only disgustingly powerful card and still he's the only one with such an unbeatable counter. It would be like there being a card that made all hunter minions cost 2 mana more for the rest of the game. It completely invalidates an archetype if the other is even remotely playable.

[@Watdee]

If Helya didn't exist, there would be a whole lot more Reno decks running around, which would make the whole game more unpleasant for everyone. I'd rather see Reno players be disappointed occasionally than see everyone else have a bad time all the time.

[@EebstertheGreat]

@@Ninguin I kinda agree. I do think counters need to exist for ultra-powerful cards like Reno though, and they did used to exist. Other powerful cards like Ignis have pretty low-opportunity-cost counters, but they are still good enough to play. They can kill your 10 mana card which required two setups just by playing a single, well-statted, tradeable minion. Like you said, the problem is that Helya is impossible to play around at all. At least with Rustrot Viper, they have to play the counter _after_ you equip the weapon, and you can "play around it" by choosing windfury, battlecry or deathrattle, by choosing cheaper weapons, or by bouncing your Ignis. And I guess you at least get one swing. With Helya vs. Reno, there is no hope. It would be like printing a card with Battlecry: Destroy your opponent's quest. That's why things were fine when Steam Cleaner was in standard, since it was at least possible for Reno to overcome these counters, but now it's just lame. (Also, I would much rather just make Reno weaker than add an unstoppable "counter" to discourage playing him at all. He is, imo, just too good.)

[@m_ism]

Miniset card: reprinted Skulking Geist with miniaturize. Call it the Sculpted Geist

[@gueez]

Missing Skulking Geist for real with all those plagues

[@studyou1016]

shouldnt kibler have went for a 5 mana weapon with one of the ignis considering he had 5 mana left, couldve gotten lifesteal armor

[@EbnuSuryadhi]

Yes I agree, Kibler taking way too long on a turn lately

[@thomas9208]

He wouldn't have played it even if he did make a 5 cost weapon. He was trying to keep his hand full so he could burn plagues. If he could do that and get down the armor weapon he would have had a shot of winning with fatigue

[@DonQuixoteFan]

He wanted a full hand to burn a card which was likely to be a plague, try and keep up boys.

[@EebstertheGreat]

He should not have played a 5 mana weapon right away, but he still should have picked it so he had an opportunity to equip a weapon and also play other cards, possibly filling up his hand again. By picking three ten mana weapons, he made it so the only way he could keep milling cards was if he passed every turn.

[@user-cp6xi9io4y]

​@@DonQuixoteFan We saw the DK playing Ignis last turn so looking for HP/armor was the better option there even if it means a chance at drawing some plagues the very next turn...

[@superjklopi]

Shuddereno is what Ned Flanders does when he's extremely scared

[@ProfessorEich]

Brian, could you try to make a control-shaman viable, which is not highlander? I rly wanna play that deck but somehow dont get a real wincondition (maybe very much value with shudder + fizzle)

[@robbedoes77]

I made a similar deck and had a lot of fun with it. Unfortunately it feels like it is "too fair" compared to the crazy stuff other decks can do...

[@lonelongboarder27]

1 helya and 1 bounce effect shuts down an entire genre of decks.... nice.

[@carlosgutierrez3918]

*sign* I miss you carpet cleaner. He was one of the best counters for cheesy BS

[@TheModernPost]

Is there any remote possibility that they would bring Steam Cleaner back to standard in some way?

[@JtheMunch]

Where do you get that King shaman skin

[@ghalomandron3841]

Reno must read like this: If you started the game with no duplicates, activet reno.

[@Lcshtspt]

People in the comments whining about highlander decks being fully countered from plagues. Yeah that's how things should work. Archetypes have counters, and realistically if you're playing highlander you run broken reno in your deck which is the main offender in every highlander deck. Plagues are the same. You either have Helya within the first 8 turns or double of the same plagues from Down with the ship or you get screwed. Even stats showed that if you run steamcleaner in your deck you lost more than if you didn't run it. Stop complaining.

[@SanityDrop]

there are so many plague DKs in 10k~20k legend ;-;

[@arthursb42]

wish they'd put steam cleaner back in core, plagues were already so annoying even when there was still counter play and now its exactly as kibler said

[@pure1y]

U are much stronger willed then me, if I saw helya into brewmaster into helya with my Reno deck, I would just instantly concede cuz I can’t be bothered. Hope they add some counter play soon

[@kardrasa]

this was 1 game lmao

[@Itz.Ironbane]

They need another card like steamcleaner. I find it impossible to play death knight since it's been gone. Other than keeping your hand full. Nerf death knight I played a game where I had a deck of 38 with only 20 of my cards. Rest were plagues..

[@Konstantin.Kalinin]

Cheers, wasted 15 mins once again, thank you for another loss vid sir

[@Marcus-zt1wh]

Watching this deck just feels so pitiful. Feels like it has no or very few ways to beat almost all the meta decks. Either too slow, outvalued, or not enough control. Loses to like mage rogue warlock DK paladin warrior etc.

[@Velxenez]

Still watch all your vids. Not fond of watching long drawn out losses where it was pretty one sided with not much hope early in the game. Only to find out there was no comeback whatsoever.

[@DarkRenegade95]

its crazy how you think dk is bad when any form of warrior running brann or odyn is a huge problem

[@Spidermancdc]

DK are, to me, the equivalent of easy mode in any video game ever. That class is so broken that they justify it by separating op cards into the three category classes. Literally, zero skill players can climb using that broken class.

[@gohomehero]

Paladin is worse. Let one of their minions live a turn and you die. But now that matters less cause you can play a 20 damage Leroy from hand.

[@alucard92717]

Extreme cope

[@jeppelund112]

The fact he never used reno is a straight up int

[@ivanspinelli7667]

The opponent did not give him a lot of turns where he could go "Yeah I guess I can spend 10 mana this turn to deal 2 damage and get a random effect" Like, long term the hero power would have been helpful, but short temr he was dying and needed to respond to the opponent's board for most of the game

[@jeppelund112]

@@ivanspinelli7667 but he used 4 cards for 11 mana to board clear instead of using Reno. Furthermore using tumbleweed instead of reno was int too

[@bigjohn4607]

the reno wasnt active though, since the double Helya shuffled in duplicate plagues, so Renos battlecry wouldn't have tiggered@@jeppelund112

[@obviousbear1289]

@@jeppelund112 Reno was disabled at 7 mana (3:19 in the video) when the enemy played Helya a second time, putting permanent duplicates of all three plagues into Kibler's deck. From that point onward, Reno was just an 8 mana, "gain 5 armor and a new hero power" card. No board clear.

[@shichikayasuri2628]

@@jeppelund112 did you watch the video? he got double helya like turn 5, reno doesn't work after that