HEAT Board game review - More like LUKEWARM (Vs. Flamme Rouge)

[@guacamolen]

While I have some similar complaints about Heat, I don't think attributing things to "luck" or "just get as close to the corner line as possible" is fair for the game. Regarding luck, players are in control of which cards they can keep in their hands. With 18 cards in your starting deck, it will take at least 3 turns to cycle through it to get the cards you want-usually 4-to prepare you to pass the next corner check with ease. Stress makes things a little less predictable, yes, but with good deck filtering, you can have a general idea of where you'll end up. Luck can be controlled in the game, so it's not just blind luck of the draw. (Though I can't speak for this point regarding Flamme Rouge, as I haven't played that and it seems pretty luck-based from what you've shown.) Pushing the corner line isn't always that good in Heat, either. If I move first, I probably don't want to be right against the corner to give someone a free chance to slipstream past it and essentially get a free turn for the cost of a little heat. So I might as well hang back a little bit to keep the pack all together. It's not always the best strategy to move ahead so much. One complaint I hear a lot about these sorts of racing games is the luck factor. It's going to be luck based if you play with your own interests in mind and not looking at the collective actions from other people. Since the pack of drivers in Heat is usually so close together, why not take advantage of that on some stretches to piggyback on another player's cards and get the last-place bonuses and slipstream ahead? Let them take all the heat doing riskier stuff to get you away from them and mooching off them. Heat is definitely not a perfect game, and I think somewhere around a 5/10 is fair for the garage module is pretty fair (a little harsh, maybe a 6 or 6.5), but I don't think chalking it up to luck or "it plays itself" is very fair. (On that note, my favorite racing game is Gravwell.)

[@realjon4220]

Appreciated the comment 😁 1. Pushing the corner is always good because it assumes that you cannot cross that corner in that round (high heat cost). Therefore, anyone that you say would slipstream off me, would NOT have taken the slipstream because of the same high heat cost. This happens A LOT in game. Plus, you want to push the corner so that you can drive away from that corner as far as you can next round, which is especially important if you have another corner close ahead (so you wont waste 2 turns to cross a corner) 2. Strange, I'd argue that looking at how other people play is making your game more luck dependant, because you are only guessing where they'd eventually move to. You're talking about using the slipstreaming . I'd 100% agree if you are maybe the last player in a 6 player game, you have 5 cars to slipstream off and almost guaranteed to proc it. But if you only have 1-2 cars ahead trying to depend on slipstreaming is rather risky, because god forbid if you didnt slipstream and became a corner behind everyone else. 3. Not really getting your first luck point, sorry. All i understood is you think it'd need 3-4 turns to get the big numbered cards before you cross the finish line. If that's what you are saying then I fully agree, but that only made the last 3-4 turns matter in the game. Most of the game is still a big blur. Also just wanted to point out, the stuff we are arguing in 1. and 2. to me almost doesn't matter. The game overcorrects everything and the outcome would most likely be the same, whether I play it my way, or if you play it your way.

[@ozza000]

You can cycle your deck much faster than this, because you have the ability to discard cards, + symbols and scrap also get you through it much faster.

[@ozza000]

​@@realjon4220 #1 is just plain wrong. If there's any sort of pack behind you taking the lead into a corner is the worst position to be in, and pushing the corner like this is only really advantageous in breakaways of 1-2 cars where either you need to be pushing the corner as close as possible to take the corners in 2 moves or you are confident you can win the corners mind games with the other car in the breakaway, normally because you have more heat. Your point at the end also isn't true, I also find it bizarre as you give comments like you've sussed the game, and you're playing optimally, or playing optimally doesn't matter, because it all comes down to who draws best at the end, but it's quite obvious from your comments you haven't played the game to any reasonable standard, as no experienced Heat player would agree with the game theories spouted here.

[@realjon4220]

@@ozza000 Okay but can you elaborate why is that the WORST position to be in? Lol, I'm just stating my conclusions based on the games I've played. Pretty open to arguments hence why I'm replying to these things to discuss. Idk why it's so bizarre to talk about how I felt about the game. From the negative feedbacks that I'm receiving (and there's been a lot, don't worry lol), I realise that I should've elaborated some parts more and didnt oversimplify as much, which 100% is my fault. Though I'm still firm that the game basically plays itself and has barely any interesting decisions. If I played the games 6 times and my experience throughout the 6 games is still roughly the same (with and without the modules), is that 'reasonable'? Do I have to follow a certain meta for the game to be fun? (draft the right cards?). Or maybe that's something to be said about the game itself? Pretty sure I've given the game enough chances.

[@ozza000]

@@realjon4220 Because if you take the lead you are the target for everyone to slipstream off, and if the full pack is behind you, whatever you do, you aren't going to stop others slipstreaming, and it's far more heat efficient to take the corners by slipstreaming them than having to be the lead car doing the work. This is even more true once you're playing with the upgrades and weather, which make it possible for people to slipstream much more than 2 spaces. No-one has to enjoy any game, it was the reasoning given in the video rather than the fact you didn't enjoy it. Albeit I did find it a bit bizarre that I found this video linked from BGG rating 2/10, yet it seems you gave the full game 5/10 anyway (and even have the basic game rated higher than that). Imo if the game played itself, the luck factor of the game would be far higher than it is.

[@KylePoole]

I played Heat a couple times and had the same lukewarm reaction. Ever since, I've been wondering what I was missing as everyone else seems to love it. Glad you agree that I wasn't missing anything :)

[@realjon4220]

I hear ya! I was so underwhelmed that I thought I was playing the game wrong. The overwhelmingly positive response to the game is really baffling to me.

[@fastpoose]

Yep, just played it last night. Everyone seemed to like it, the owner of the game loves it. I hated it, agree with everything you have said. Now I'm searching around the net to confirm my bias, lol! I was so excited to play it due to the BGG hype. Couldn't really believe how bad it was...?! Played with the upgrade cards, OMG it must be really bad without those...

[@realjon4220]

🤣🤣 Everyone I played the game with were actually saying it's meh (or not say anything at all when the game ends). The positive reception seem to only have come online only for me at least.

[@lou19]

Had the same "everyone i played it with hated it" kind of experiences with other games but not with Heat. I played with multiple groups and everyone enjoyed it, some of them even bought their own copy.

[@realjon4220]

A few more minorish things I dont like about the game (didnt put it in the video, it's already REALLY long): 1. The game flow is kinda bad. For a game this simple, there are so many checks that you do each turn. Move car, check adrenaline, check boost, check cooldown, check slipstream, check corner, goodness. The start and stops really kills the flow of the game. 2. Considerable waiting time towards max player counts because the game isn't fully simultaneous. Adding more players imo does not add anything of value to the game because there is BARELY any player interaction in HEAT (I've seen roll and write games with more interaction). it only increases wait time between players, best count is probably 3-4 to me. But with that kind of player count, I'd rather play Quest of El Dorado. 3. Cooldown can be pretty luck dependant too. I specifically remember a time where I've been trying to put my heat cards back to the sink, but they keep getting immediately discarded from my deck whenever I do boost / stress card plays, and they clog up my last few rounds of the game as my luck have it. 4. What is up with the 'you can't look at your discard pile' rule? It's not a memory game 😑 5. The upgrade card that only give you additional heat to play with has got to be one of the most boring upgrades you can have in a game. 6. I usually don't care about themes in board games if they are not story/narrative games (if you notice I always quickly brush through them). But for some reason I dislike board game themes that makes fast things slow (e.g., racing games), very subjective one I know. 7. Just like Flamme Rouge, the slipstream mechanic is pretty random and you can't really plan for it. It only becomes a nice little surprise at the end of your turn when you get to proc it. You'll probably proc it a lot seeing how close everyone else to each other anyways. 8. That price are you kidding me? 9. Yes, as mentioned by a few of people, you CAN actually cross 2 corners in other maps. But that requires you to have the right advanced upgrade cards as not all of them can do that. But then the question becomes, is the winner decided on the drafting phase? (i.e., who can cross 2 corners in one turn in that map?) Really had an open mind with this game, but man was it disappointing.

[@zoltanbalogh3235]

Thank you for the review. Any houserule / variant tip for make it much better than 5/10? Do you have any toughts on Rallyman GT?

[@realjon4220]

1. 100% play with the upgrade cards / garage module (both with the beginner and advanced upgrades). Though I'd remove the heat cards upgrade from them (they might be functional but my god are they boring). 2. I'd play with at max 4 players to minimise wait time. Haven't played Rallyman GT unfortunately 🤔

[@zoltanbalogh3235]

@@realjon4220 Thank you for your reply

[@jocelynsavard1218]

I have a question, if I have the right to an inspiration, but I don't have room for two, but there is free space for 1 space, can I do it? THANKS

[@realjon4220]

Did you mean slipstream? As in you get to move 2 spaces but then that space is occupied by 2 cars? If yes, then yes you can just move 1 space. The rule says if you move to a space without a room, then you can just stop a space behind. Hope that helps.

[@jocelynsavard1218]

Yes I was talking about Slipstream, in French we say aspiration, your answer answers my question very well, thank you for the information.@@realjon4220

[@ozza000]

Nearly everything said in the review section of Heat here is just straight up incorrect, with much of it being factually incorrect. For example saying you can only jump 2 corners on Great Britain track suggests you haven't played too much, as I have seen 2 corners jumped on every track many times. Even the basic premise of approaching the corner as much as you can is often not the play. The luck factor is overplayed, of course there's some luck to the game, but more experienced players will generally crush inexperienced players as the biggest factors are hand and deck management. The catch-up mechanisms are fine, but not so powerful to bring you back if you just play that much worse than your opponents. It's definitely possible to front run, the it just comes down to who draws best at the end seems to be a common fallacy, which against isn't really true, and I assume is just a lack of experience from those saying it. Getting ahead in the corners is a major part of the game in deciding who wins.

[@realjon4220]

1. I should've added that you can jump 2 corners in other maps if you've got the right ADVANCED upgrade (+slipstreams, +speed limits) cards. But that's IF you get them in the initial draft, not all upgrade cards allow you to do this. Then the question becomes, is the winner decided during the draft? As you said yourself, getting ahead in the corners decides who wins. A sure way to do this is crossing 2 corners in one turn when no one else can. Getting ahead in corners is nigh impossible in the base game. It's a lot more doable with the right upgrade cards and some setup, which afaik usually involves you to be just behind the corners so you pay as less heat as possible. 2. If you are talking about base game, the catchup mechanics overcorrects everything. We could discuss luck all day but it almost doesnt matter. If you're talking about the advanced game, you've got luck of initial draft that determines if you can easily cross 2 corners. Also, a quick glance of these cards reveals that you still either need to proc a slipstream (luck) or draw the right card as they have the boost icons, which again, luck. I do concede that I should've rewrote my script so that it would seem that game luck doesnt sound like the focal point. My main point was actually the the game's way too shallow and plays itself. 3. In base game, you are almost always on the same corner as everyone else, so big numbers = win is definitely true. With upgraded cards, you are more likely to cross 2 corners in one go and be ahead, so the big cards = win theory is likely untrue because you could technically finish a round ahead. But just to re-iterate my first point, is that because you got the better card than everyone else during draft that allows you to cross 2 corners? Also, how do you draft these cards fairly if you aren't playing with 3 or 6 players?

[@ozza000]

@@realjon4220 1. That doesn't become the question at all, because firstly having the ability to jump 2 corners doesn't mean you will jump 2 corners. And secondly, jumping 2 corners doesn't even guarantee victory. I've seen plenty of people do it and not win vs someone that didn't jump 2 corners. There are a variety of strategies, at a most basic level if you are strong on the corners, you are probably weaker on the straights. I said getting ahead in corners is major part in deciding who wins in response to the claim that it basically comes down to who has the best cards at the end. You can also gain a turn on the straights on every track pretty easily with the right setup. 2. Of course I am not talking the basic game. The basic game is a learning tool to learn the mechanics of the game, I highly doubt many people are playing the basic game over and over, it's quite obvious a lot of the meat of the game is in the advanced modules, particularly the garage module. If you really think hitting a slipstream is luck I find it hard to believe you've played the game to any reasonable standard, even the + icons are not as lucky as they may appear, it's about playing the %'s with them. 3. Firstly, given the variations of the way people draft, there is a skill element to both evaluating the cards on a whole and evaluating what is best for the circumstance. It would be near guaranteed for example if you gave me what you think the best upgrades are in a vacuum that it wouldn't match up with my opinion on it. The upgrades themselves are pretty balanced in that they provide a multitude of strategies to victory. I don't really understand what you mean about drafting fairly outside of playing 3 or 6 players, but it does lead into what is imo one of the few flaws of the game, that there is an advantage to starting at the back of the grid, it's not game breaking, it's slight, but it nonetheless exists without house ruling the draft.

[@realjon4220]

@@ozza000 Sorry didnt get to reply immediately as I didnt get notifications. 1. In the situation of whether you'll be strong in corners or strong in straights, I have no idea why you wouldnt always aim to jump 2 corners whenever you can. If you don't, you're just going to be a corner behind when the straights come up. Look, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and that you've played the game way more than me. My experience was still not that great with the garage module, sure you have way more versatility with the cards , but they're still the minority of the game. After you played them (which you will probably play most if not all of them when you set up to either do a big straight or cross 2 corners), you're left with the same ol boring cards from the base game until a few more rounds . And even when we say "set up" for things, it's just playing the obvious moves based on what you have . If you have high numbered cards or the triple boost stuff, youre playing them on the straights. But if you have the good corner cards, you play them on the corner. The game's still not that interesting to me sadly. 2. Agree to disagree I guess. There are ways to manipulate the luck (like the salvage or choose your speed cards) that could help with the luck. But saying that they dont really matter I cannot agree at all. 3. Yes the car at the back will always get first choice twice. You can house rule the draft in a 3 player game easily by letting each player be the first person to draft once (3 players, excatly 3 rounds of drafts). Ignore my 6 player comment not sure what that was about.

[@phk975]

Yeah, I've culled this game from my collection already. Makes a pretty good first impression, but once the toy/curiosity factor faded, it just doesn't have that depth that made me want to play it again. Maybe a good family game, but not one for the gamers.

[@realjon4220]

Agreed. Though I thnk it plays like a kid's board game.

[@FasFas160]

Perfect timing, as i had been considering this game. Your editing is on point as always. I really really like your focus on games needing to have interesting decisions. I think it would be great if you did a video showing off your favorite games that have that. maybe a simple top 10 list or something (not that i want you to be a solely top 10 kinda channel).

[@realjon4220]

Hopefully I've convinced you not to get the game 🤣. I did focus a lot on the interesting decisions bit this time because I wanted to warn people of how shallow / barely a game HEAT is. It feels like a kid's game marketed as an adult game, an adult Candy Land if you will. What baffles me even more is how widely praised the game is, it's weird. Everyone I played this with had the same meh kind of reaction as I did. I've been thinking of making a top 10 list at some point but honestly having a hard time ranking games that are very different.

[@FernandoCanoG]

Keep up this good content!!!

[@realjon4220]

Thanks my guy!!! 😁😁

[@RoniJusnita]

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[@sutrisnowihardjo2867]

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[@angelawihardjo6299]

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