HEATED Roman Catholic, Arian & Atheist Discussions: Predestination, Papacy, St. Mary! -Jay Dyer

Today we will have open forum debate and Q n A from Twitter Spaces for those who want to challenge the Orthodox position or bring new argumentation against my positions. Open forum today includes topics such as: religious engineering, Calvinist and evangelical debates, atheism, universals and abstract objects, TAG and transcendental arguments, Logos and logoi, the Triad & biblical theology, Islam and Roman Catholic absolute divine simplicity, and much more! Opponents are welcome to bring any arguments related to these topics and can have the floor to make your case.
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[@JayDyer]

Be sure to like, share, comment and subscribe! Roman Catholic "debate" at 43:03

[@kevindrinkswater9024]

Yeah the whole "bro, let's unpack this bro" is such a gross liberal pattern.

[@pbot6593]

Howdy sir. Just wanted to let you know that, while I am not convinced of there being a God (or it might be that I'm not convinced that you are correct about what you call God), I nevertheless very much appreciate and enjoy your work. I promise I'm not slimy bro-ing out on you...although I was raised catholic. Haha? Seriously though, I am intrigued by your deconstruction of Catholicism. You are providing a lot of theological resolution to many of the blaring problems that in part caused me to conclude 30 years ago that, if the Christian God is real, Roman Catholicism is obviously corrupted. You've inspired me to learn more about Christian orthodoxy. Also, I've seen every Matt Dillahaunty debate and I thought you did the best in exposing his ineptitude in inductive reasoning and his misappropriation of deductive reasoning--in other words, his lack of discernment. To be clear, while I am not impressed in that TAG supplies a justification for logic and meaning (it seems something could be logically argued but be wrong due to limited information), I was most impressed with your argumentation. I have heard versions of TAG presented dozens of times, but yours was the first time in a decade that I was forced to look over my reasoning again to see if I could spot any mistakes. All I can say is I wish I knew you in person because these are the kinds of conversations I like to have in life. In closing, you've read every book on or by the elite that I have and more. Your playlists in that department are exactly what I had hoped to have achieved by now. I send everyone I can your way. Seriously, thank you. And this is a great episode, thoroughly enjoying it

[@emmetzet]

@@kevindrinkswater9024 It's a stalling tactic ( like much of these rhetorical tricks masquerading as coaxing of elevated dialogue ) and this kind of stuff is designed to divert or delay conversation in subject matter that the clear loser is not proficient in. It's the squid trying to escape by darting east as it squirts its ink west. Slimy is exactly what Nat Paris is

[@MrBENSIGNS]

IT WAS 1290 YEARS FROM THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FIRST TEMPLE IN 586 BC TO THE COMPLETION OF THE AL AKSA MOSQUE COMPLETED IN 704 AD ,IT STILL STANDS IN THE HOLY PLACE , WHICH IS BEFORE THE HOLY OF HOLIES , THEN ADD 1335 YEARS TO THE END OF THE AGE EQUALS 2040 , JUST LIKE DANIEL 12 SAYS . IN MODERN HEBREW GAMATRA ( THE NATIONAL POPULIST MOVEMENT ) EQUALS 2040 , AND THE DOME OF THE ROCK WAS COMLETED A TIME , TIMES AND HALF A TIME ,,, 1277 YEARS FROM 586 BC TO 691 AD , ADD 42 MONTHS 1277 YEARS,,, 1967 SIX DAY WAR , WHEN ISRAEL PLANTED A FLAG ON THE DOME OF THE ROCK ,, EQUALS NORTHERN PLATEAU , IS FORT ANTONIA AND SOUTHERN PLATEAU EQUALS COURT OF THE JEWS ,,,,,,

[@timme5150]

Weasel manner

[@alexandragaughan-campbell218]

As a former cognitive behavioral clinical psychologist, with almost no philosophy background and not much training in how to think critically or logically, and with almost no understanding of what epistemology even is, from listening to you I came to understand that my "degree" rests on very flimsy ground. I trusted in and learned to almost blindly accept different "theories" of how the mind works and how psychopathology develops put forth by very unhealthy people. I had no understanding of what the human person is until I began reading Orthodox Christian theology. I obtained a PhD in an academic system that I see now was all smoke and mirrors consisting of a highly specialized "jargon" and which was founded on atheistic untruth. My license to "practice" expired on May 31, 2022 and I just got another "DELINQENT NOTICE." I think I will frame that! Even though I could have made worse use of my time in the nine years it took to obtain the PhD, I see most of that "learning" as being "filthy rags" compared to beginning to learn what "theosis" means and beginning to actually pray. God has given me enough experiences of His Grace during prayer, through the sacraments, and in the Orthodox manner of ascetic struggle against the passions to make me see that its not too late for me. I have entered Orthodox Psychotherapy. I want my illness, sinfulness, to be cured. Thank you Jay for your dedicated work in the formal aspects of apologetics. My poor Thomistic Roman Catholic father would have been blown away...

[@user-tp7wi4lt2b]

As a psychology student myself I 100% agree with you on this and the more I get to know about the therapeutic programm of the Orthodox Church the more I see how little there is that "scientific" psychotherapy can do for a person. I really don't know if I should even keep pursuing the degree. I pray that God will show me his will.

[@NickandBear]

I'm in a similar boat. I'm a therapist and the more I learn about orthodoxy the more I feel as though I'm selling snake oil. My goal is to write a book for practitioners to help them introduce true Christian healing to their clients in an accessible way.

[@everlastingphronema9700]

@@NickandBear Relatable. I am still working through it, but I think of it like a band aid or emergency aid, but the person needs to still go to the hospital or else they will not find true healing. I still see what I do as good work, but yeah I would like to point people the hospital.

[@user-tp7wi4lt2b]

@@everlastingphronema9700 That is a very good way to think about it!

[@ail2470]

I'd like to suggest you, with your scholastic experience, dig deeper to discover your truth of existence. All Religion in and of itself is nothing more than a facade to dumb down humans on massive scales from us ever finding out who we truly are. It's purely a dogma. They(hidden powers) have fabricated and established false idols such as Jesus to fool the public; it's the biggest trickery and dupery ever pulled on in human history. You already are whole because you are the Energy emanating vibration that creates your so-called life and the world. YOU ARE GOD. You are powerful beyond your imagination. Your thoughts, feelings, and emotions are the barometer that determines the fall or rise of frequency of vibration. Unlike Jesus' time(yes, he existed and his real name was Yeshua) more than 2000 years ago, now scientists (not corrupted ones) are proving that the multiverse, universe, or humans all are one unity vibrating, pulsating energy field having consciousness. Blessings.

[@SmileTimeGifts]

I don't see Roman Catholic church ever submitting. I think their role in endtimes is already set.

[@taylorpeter5066]

It's just the Catholic Church not Roman Catholic. The Orthodox need to come back because they left. It wasn't the other way around.

[@4337GLE]

@@taylorpeter5066 Lol did you even watch the debate or did you just fish comments to feel smart?

[@ruspesca8443]

​@@taylorpeter5066come back from where, you're delusional 😂 you go back to the source, the source is orthodoxy not your virgin of Fatima.

[@TrontaviousKatarina]

@@4337GLEDid you just assume Jay is correct or did you just fish for videos confirming your bias?

[@RudyCarrera]

@@taylorpeter5066 delusional heretic.

[@saint-jiub]

6:52 - arian 21:40 - modalist 27:40 - atheist goober 43:00 - roman catholic 59:50 - ecumenism / how to talk to Prots 1:06:20 - ecumenism questioned - cont 1:10:29 - calvinism predestination & causation 1:22:40 - calvinist 1:31:00 - ramifications of ADS on theology 1:35:50 - western rite drama 2:01:52 - inquirer questions 2:07:45 - lilith and kabbalah 2:11:20 - lilith myth origins book 2:13:33 - original sin and guilt & infant damnation 2:21:22 - inquirer questions; mary and original sin 2:29:00 - how to respond to someone obsessingly asking for definitions 2:40:15 - hell raiser film analysis 2:46:10 - idealism and monism analysis

[@alsneed7941]

thx for the timestamps bro

[@saint-jiub]

@@bernabei1997 what is your position?

[@saint-jiub]

@@bernabei1997 is the Son a creature or is he co-eternal with the Father?

[@saint-jiub]

@@bernabei1997 Im trying to clarify the timestamp for you to be charitable. If you do not believe Jesus is co-eternal with the Father and is a creature then your position will fall under arianism heresy.

[@saint-jiub]

@@bernabei1997 It's not my pronouncement. It's the one holy catholic apostolic church's.

[@mariorizkallah5383]

Forced conversions and syncretism is not “converting the world” when you have a pope embracing a pagan idol, but hey they converted the world or something!

[@mariorizkallah5383]

@@icxcnika2037 yeah i was East Cath(Maronite) an Orthodox Catechumen now

[@keltonschleyer6367]

This is 3 hours of Jay hearing one sentence before saying, "Let me stop you there and explain why you're wrong," and I'm completely here for it 🤣

[@kino-yuga9229]

44:00 one may call them an ecumenist, arrogant, an illiterate. It all flows off them like water on a ducks back. But call him a Catholic and see how he shrinks, how he recoils; "I've been found out!"

[@jmfljmfl]

"Take your santeria Roman Catholic Latin voodoo elsewhere."

[@RudyCarrera]

ftw

[@justin_sanchez_]

13:20 Jay's "Not a Real Christian" detector goes off.

[@justin_sanchez_]

@@bernabei1997 Jesus Christ being God is fundamental to being a Christian. Call yourself whatever you want, you are not a Christian.

[@jonbkid3053]

If I believe that Jesus is Lord. Lord God.

[@jonbkid3053]

My Lord and my God-- beloved disciple of the Christ, Jesus, The Messiah.

[@justin_sanchez_]

@@bernabei1997 Well, you're tossing around terms like "intellectually dishonest" and "bullshitter" yet, to you, your opinion and hermeneutic methods hold more weight than the Christians and Church that have come before you. I have no desire to argue, just keep in mind that your opinion is heterodox. I don't mind if you hold your opinion, what could I possibly do to change it? But you shouldn't think that you hold what has been believed and taught and handed down by the Apostles and Church Fathers. It is historically novel and a heresy defined by both big-O Orthodoxy and little-o orthodoxy. Look no further than the early Ecumenical Councils to see what early Christians thought of your interpretation

[@neotradnous]

@@bernabei1997 you think that Jesus is a Hindu destroyer god. Prove me wrong. You can’t. And in your world view it doesn’t matter if he is. Which is completely ridiculous.

[@davidcraig9540]

The lack of honest debate from the RCs is frustrating and revealing

[@theelement6255]

Facts

[@Dr.YehudaBenNachmanFriedburg]

The catholic dude who called in was extremely annoying. And I’m a catholic…….

[@Alwah16]

If you still are repent

[@renee6989]

3 interlocutors before the papist were able to disagree, discuss, and come to an understanding without it getting nasty. They (papist) indeed come in all slimy and triggerd and pretend like they dont know why Jay gets short with them. lol

[@HoryCow]

I've been a listener for years on InfoWars but didn't realize you were an orthobro. I'm Russian Ortho (OCA) in Alaska and my wife is Romanian Ortho from Romania. My priest sent me a text asking if I knew you were Orthodox. Interestingly, I was just sitting down with your Esoteric Hollywood book. Needless to say, he and I are fans.

[@alexandragaughan-campbell218]

This Orthodox Boomer Grandma loves the Techno Intro!!!!!

[@RudyCarrera]

This is a rad granny.

[@orthodoxboomergrandma3561]

Just one saved by Christ out of pleasure seeking, psychotherapy culture, a Western Hindu meditation cult, Protestantism, and papal Protestantism at age 56 into the Holy Orthodox Church! Glory to God for All Things! 🙏🏻☦️🙏🏻

[@briansolo]

UNPACKED. Seriously though, I was raised Southern Baptist and truly believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins upon the cross, rose again on the 3rd day, etc. However, I have been “unchurched” for a long time because I do not approve of the current leadership of my home church, and haven’t researched any others. That being said, the Orthodox Church is fascinating to me, and I’d love to visit one. I just don’t think there’s one in my area. Besides this channel, what are some “online” (for the lack of a better term) Orthodox Churches I should visit for more education? Recommendations? Love your stuff, Jay.

[@cyriljorge986]

Visit an Orthodox Church! There is no substitute. Still, there are some good priests lending guidance on the web: Fr. Tryphon, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Fr. Spyridon Bailey principal among them.

[@kalash2874]

Bro im kinda in a similar situation. How has things been

[@bradleyperry1735]

Maybe I’m off base here, but in John, when Thomas sees Christ after His Resurrection, he cries out, “My Lord and my God!” He’s acknowledging Christ as God there, is he not? And he isn’t rebuked for that. Am I missing something here?

[@milko540]

Not sure why this isn't brought up as often.

[@Val.Kyrie.]

The atheist was way more tolerable than the papist. Ugh. Thank you for helping me on my Orthodox conversion path, and sometimes reminding me of the BATSHIT INSANITY I escaped from.

[@ruspesca8443]

I can't believe I was a roman Catholic.

[@andymontes3980]

Im hispanic and my parents used to be catholic but now they’re non-denominational. I have been looking into Orthodoxy and so far it addresses all of my concerns.

[@andymontes3980]

2:33:51

[@djz9584]

Loved the nature show "bro" lmao..thanks again☦️

[@Natsariymministries]

I've been watching your stuff for year or so now and I just can't learn enough! Thank you Jay!

[@jakemarfoglia]

Why are the goobers who know nothing about theology or philosophy always the ones who are the most combative and unteachable?

[@ancestralvril]

jay bro *taps shoulder* hey jay bro jay brother

[@yusucc]

Bro Jay bro unpack this for me Jay bro... Can you hear me Jay bro?

[@Scotty_cooks]

As a person who had a really crazy experience being saved a little under a year ago. My life has completely changed for the better thanks to Jesus. I don’t belong to a church currently, however i grew up going to a Roman Catholic church. I did my sacraments because my parents put me in religious instructions. I always looked at it like a business based on how they ran it. they always guilted people into multiple donations. They seemed very uninterested in the actual word of God. As i grew up I was living in sin, i had terrible anxiety, i drank a-lot smoked a-lot, but was never satisfied. One day i just had enough. It was like no matter how hard i tried to do right I couldn’t do it alone i kept failing. it felt like my life was completely falling apart. I talked to God by myself in my room one night. I told him i gave up trying on my own i surrendered to him i repented fir everything i did. As i layed on my bed i took a breath in and it felt like he breathed into my lungs like i was lifting from my bed almost. It was like my whole life i was under water and I finally got my head up for air. The next day i said a prayer (I almost never prayed) i asked him for strength. I felt and extreme joy and peace come over me. It was like love you couldn’t compare to anything on earth. I was crying tears of Joy. I felt weights lift off my shoulders. I went outside and it was like the entire world changed. My anxiety was completely gone. I had it since i was a child. Ever since then i have been gradually growing i read the new testament in about 2 months i cried many times while reading it. I stopped smoking and drinking my life is so much better. I have been told i have an orthodox heart by someone while debating many people. My knowledge is no where near yours jay. I just started watching your channel and its really amazing. So i would like to thank-you for that. I will admit every single Roman Catholic i have come across is a bit of a arrogant jerk. Same shtick every-time “we are the original only church of christ”. They have even accused-me of being a cult member for questioning the motives of the current pope. I mean the guy reminds me of emperor palpetine and was kissing the Quran. Anyway i would just like to thank-you for all the knowledge you share. I still have a-lot to learn.

[@GitanaLuna23]

“When conversion takes place, the process of revelation occurs in a very simple way - a person is in need, he suffers, and then somehow the other world opens up.”-Fr Seraphim Rose Biggest thing is to go and experience a liturgy and get involved with a parish. I know what that darkness of despair and anxiety is like and I am so thankful to Christ and His church for rescuing me out of that. God bless you and keep up the fight! :)

[@jenis-01]

Still waiting on gossiping pt 2 have to run it back, back onto the billboard 100

[@Johnnydiamondlonglive]

Jay brought the gunz to the knife fight, God keep you brother! A shout out from an old believer Orthodox!

[@Godsservant778]

Great debates!

[@elizantoinette]

thank you for explaining that Knowledge needs Justification. I never understood that till now.

[@nickmuzekari6124]

Me as well, looking forward to understanding that more. Fyi Jay dropped this link regarding more discussion about that: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3W2fHSAZ8ikgtE

[@CyprusHot]

What a crazy video: heretics, unitarians, RC’s….. they say one thing then one minute later strongly deny they said something ?! Jay has said a million videos ago and a million times : stop saying my name …. ! As if repeating your name will make them “win” a debate. You aren’t rude Jay. Stop apologising Orthodoxy forever

[@chad14533]

This was a bizarre stream... it just really thew me off guard with the first few people haha

[@GeorgeLiavas]

Jay, I gotta say. After watching this video....I'm trackin' with u brah

[@TommyGunzzz]

That really was the nicest atheist you've ever had on.

[@alexwarstler9000]

A meerkat is a form of mongoose I think.

[@tonybaloney5877]

That RC dude was truly a slime bag! Slime!

[@mrscream2028]

1:12:00 refuting predestination

[@ruspesca8443]

❤

[@mattstiglic]

Andrew from the crucible at 1:10:00

[@ARCTERYXSWEATSHOP]

love you jay

[@fkahairuonerom8027]

Wish the RC guy would have tried to answer honestly, would have been nice to hear the RC rebuttal.

[@kino-yuga9229]

It's literally like this every time, always try to poke holes in orthodox arguments and when they get BTFO they squeam and say "are you mad bro hahaha you're mad huh" it

[@jenis-01]

there is no rc rebuttal

[@protestantismevangelicalis97]

These are the streams I live for. 🔥

[@hashbrowns9328]

Roman Catholic guy was extremely insincere.

[@zzolm]

I used to be a big advocate for Western Rite, I suppose because I was Roman Catholic and have a deep emotional attachment to the western liturgical tradition. However, after constant research it's clear that the Western liturgical tradition has been deeply and most likely irrevocably wounded from centuries of tinkering and abrogation. This didn't start in Vatican II but goes as far back as the Council of Trent and even before that somewhat. All efforts to resurrect ancient rites or adapt the current ones to Orthodoxy come off as inauthentic, at best a bit muddled and at worst LARPy. There are 9 or so adaptations of western rites to Orthodoxy and each is cobbled together from differing sources, some of which are incomplete. The question is why? I understand the reason for doing it to a point. Whole communities may wish to convert and this represents and easy way to continue the spiritual life by not disrupting a familiar liturgy. However, most conversions are not in this extraordinary way but by individuals. Why not just learn the living tradition? I find Western Rite adherents (lack of a better term, so apologies, I know they are Orthodox) sometimes too focused of recreating something lost rather than living the faith as it is now.

[@keef5]

Wow that first call was fuckin brutal. I’m an atheist. I do not believe there’s a god. I have zero knowledge of any god.

[@ngmi5574]

Those were blue alerts for that sh**Ter that was on the loose around Hendersonville. I got ‘em all day too lol

[@bradleyperry1735]

Is it possible that the electro-chemical reactions in the brain are more like the symptom of a thought? Like the electro-chemical reaction is a physical representation, so to speak, of the thoughts in the mind.

[@orthodoxboomergrandma3561]

I learned how to switch accounts!

[@cameronnealey8768]

I loved that “unpack this unpack that, what are you a liberal journalist?”

[@masonyost2833]

Heard you mentioned Elvis books, might I ask what books did y’all read and if y’all are going to be making a video on the new movie?

[@CalebDekker]

Jay asks if he is a liberal journalist as a joke because of the words he’s using…”No, I’m not a 19 year old kid who knows nothing about trinitarian theology!” Well, I guess that settles that.

[@hatoffnickel]

Yo, is that Andrew Wilson at 1:11:00?

[@emperorsheev6309]

1:10:20 Andrew from the crucible came to ask a question? That’s crazy looking at this 2 years later

[@kellyanna94]

I'm Western Rite, and thankfully my parish doesn't have that phronema at all, it's actually shocking to hear that that's apparently a problem in other parishes. That's appalling. We're very clearly not Roman, even with Augustine he's shush-shushed and pushed away in discussions because he's not seen by us as Orthodox. Our priest took us out to lunch as inquirers and we all had a blast discussing the problems in Rome and how it's utterly incompatible with Orthodoxy on every level. Liturgically it's western, theologically it's Orthodox on every level, and my priest is strict about really hammering that home. So there are definitely good, faithful Western Rite parishes out there! Don't lose heart!

[@marleyfan1000]

Augestine is Orthodox though and he may have been wrong about somethings but still a Saint.

[@IrishOrtodoxa]

If you don't see Augustine as Orthodox then you've gone way over to the other extreme. I think you mean to say Augustinianism, a system of theology based on some of his wrong ideas, is not Orthodox but Augustine himself was.

[@cyriljorge986]

"Not seen by you as Orthodox?" Then you are heterodox. St. Augustine is Orthodox.

[@bvidude8064]

Loved the "Cosby Sweater Calvinism" stream!!! Can you do ones on the "Pudding Pop Papacy" and "J-E-L-L-O" Jesuits?

[@JacobMakesWaves]

trackin' trackin', looking for some traction, feelin like a catholic, there's a ford maverick

[@joelpaddock5199]

Here's a realization about predestination I found reading ine of the Psalms. Foreknowledge is the time counterpart to omnipresence. God being everywhere present doesn't imply there is some place that I can't be because God is there taking up that space, but rather we would be mutually present there. The same way God's foreknowledge doesn't imply occasionalism.

[@marilynbaker2231]

I come here for the intro 🎵 🎵 😎

[@Christopher_TheFool]

I never understood the argument “God can’t be tempted” especially with a verse like Deuteronomy 6:16 “you shall not tempt the Lord your God LIKE YOU DID in massah”. Would they really say God is not God then?

[@pipedownsomeL]

Lols the pump up the jam techno lols cool beans lmao…. Phd verification lols, hold on hold on I gots to get mean freaken good stuff as usual Jay. Woo hoo keep it going manggg 😎

[@Knebelcm1986]

Help me to hear from God, that's the whole story of the bible, people hear from Him-I want to hear from Him like them

[@studyptewithhany5549]

Great stream Jay , I would like to hear your critique of Bobby perspective new videos..he left the trinity and nowadays probably embracing Islam.

[@coulter112]

Hilarious! Always enjoy when you destroy these guys! Keep it up!

[@Craftymang]

MFin ANDREW WILSON @ 1:10:00

[@emmetzet]

fantastic slapdown of Nat Paris. Looking forward to listening to the rest

[@lafoifr6853]

Yo my Orthobro : great exchanges. Concerning the Roman part, Francis might check out some Freudian documents and conclude that this arrogance for salvation might partly be related to some frustration in their ranks ; hence their overzeal to act like the « cool guys ». I mean, how could one speak and chant to your face Cantate Domino stuff while saying « good day » with a straight face and expect receiving anything else than a Philip 4 King of France slap instead, for the arrogance. Take care and btw, more ex-Sedevacantists are getting out of the big old cult thanks to your work. After Francis’ resignation, the Cult leaders are done. Keep the beer and the cheetos and popcorn fresh for the event! Their excuses won’t save their buiseness.

[@nickmuzekari6124]

Super interested in learning more about justification for knowledge and how atheism can't provide a coherent justification, seems I only get bits and pieces on the 'why' when the question comes up. Is there an easy 'formula' so to speak to answer why the atheistic worldview cannot provide a coherent justification for knowledge? Assuming this topic is one of the essays in your book? Any other good resources that break down justifying knowledge for a layman?

[@JayDyer]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3W2fHSAZ8ikgtE

[@nickmuzekari6124]

@C. Harrison Dude relax. Your comment is immature. I didn't say anything about HAD to anything, my comment was focused on the atheistic worldview not being able to ("can't" "cannot"), though I do believe within the philosophical sphere, and I'm still learning, an epistemic justification is a must. But like Jay says all the time during his debates, atheists can deny all of that if they want. They're free to do so and continue on with an incoherent, absurd worldview that plays in the theistic sandbox while denying it at the same time.

[@nickmuzekari6124]

@@JayDyer Awesome thanks

[@nickmuzekari6124]

​@C. Harrison What I meant is that I get bits and pieces for my own knowledge when I watch these type of streams, not from atheists. Hence my asking for additional resources. I probably could have made that more clear.

[@kino-yuga9229]

@Prescott that guy didn't even want an argument he just walked in, said you can't say god exists because he can't understand words, then called people buddy to try and reinforce the boomer mentality, then abandoned ship. probably posted this to reddit to show how he totally owned those stupid believers too

[@sharif8326]

Q how do u explain the verses in the bible where it says God visits the iniquity of the parents upon the kids. For example "for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; Exodus 20:5 Because ezekiel is also clear God doesnt punish kids for the sin of parents. How is this reconciled?

[@annk.3545]

Weasel nature show! 😂

[@GabrielaLtc]

1:13:00 is it Andrew from the Cruciable?

[@jaredg5663]

What’s the difference between a distinct person and a separate person when talking about the Trinity?

[@jenniferneufeld3041]

Can I call you a handsome devil. Lol totally kidding. I love your content and you are awesome :)

[@ДубовыеЛеса]

In Russia there's understanding Vatican coordinates the old aristocraсy of landowners in Europe. Russian ecomonist, who had worked at the president office in 90s, Mikhail Khazin speculates there're only three geopolitical players in Europe now: Vatican, London and Russia. Now or soon they'll negotiate with Russia how to divide Europe. Since GB wants to create their own currency zone within Western Europe but sees Germany as its most powerful rival GB tries to divide Germany. GB may promise the old German elite to restore Prussia and Saxony with Dantzig and Silesia.Vatican may have catholic southern part of Germany as the new Austria-Hungary as new empire of Habsburger with Chechia and Northern Italy. And Northwest, Ruhr and Hamburg go to London. He believes the new Great Depression has already started in USA but instead of three years it'll last up to five or six years. There's video where he explains it all in detail with Eng subs they're not ideal but understandable. kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6iqoH6BYtCfmpY

[@bebopbountyhead]

Can someone proofread this for me? A Problem of Evil: P1: God is omnipotent. P2: God is omniscient. P3: God created people, including their capacities to will. P4: God is omnibenevolent. P4.1: Being omnibenevolent, God wouldn't create people in a way that would lead to them acting evilly. P5: God created people in a way that lead to them acting evilly. Conclusion: One of the main premises (P1, P2, P3, or P4) must be incorrect by reductio, given P5. (Either He didn't have the potency to create people without the capacity to act evilly, the knowledge that would tell Him that they would act in such a way, the control over their creation, or He willed evil.) This seems to be one of the main atheistic "Problem of Evil" arguments that crops up in peoples' heads often. The problem with the argument is P5, as God giving people free choice to act while knowing they will act evilly isn't the same thing as creating them in a way that would lead to them acting evilly. As an example of the secondary causation point: If I know that my slowboy friend will always respond with "YEP" when I say something to him, do I cause him to say "YEP" when I tell him to say "NAH"? The Problem of Predestination: P1: God is omnipotent. P2: God is omniscient. P3: God created people, including their capacities to will. P4: God has predestined all things. Conclusion: God must have predestined how people have willed, do will, and shall will. This argument seems to hinge on a dogmatic definition of "predestinate" that, given patristic and biblical history, requires a redefinition of "choice" in the context of non-divine action to mean "non-choice." Things like "keeping commandments," "obeisance," "hardening one's heart," or just any action by man has to be defined as an analogy to God's actions. However, genuinely being actions of God in such a system, the analogy breaks down. We wouldn't say that your action is similar to your action, nor would we say "Your friend did X" in order to genuinely express "You did X" (we might say such a thing ironically). In short, it requires "similitude" and "identity" to be nondistinct, which would make for some hairy divine simplicity claims. On a more fundamental level, though: "How do you know the fundamental nature of causation if you can't justify the preconditions for knowledge?"

[@eek412]

Meerkat Manor😂

[@chaun1115]

43:00 papists btfo'd lol RIP bozo

[@kino-yuga9229]

That was the nail in the coffin for me going catholic, he came in there to start trouble while hiding behind "I'm genuinely in good faith". What a plebian larp the Catholic Church is

[@chaun1115]

@@kino-yuga9229 It's kind of a shame because there are good Catholics but, for some reason, the slimiest ones seem to bubble up to the surface, like this guy and fat Erick Ybarra.

[@kino-yuga9229]

@@chaun1115 it's extremely difficult to find good material online, it's out there but the cringe like this is unbearable

[@jimmyjames5685]

Papist? I am getting real protestant vibes from Jay and his crew.

[@chaun1115]

@@jimmyjames5685 You must not be paying attention then.

[@cyriljorge986]

27:40 is profoundly undereducated compared to Jay, it was brutal to listen to. Hopefully he gets out of that mire. I remember when I was there, I wish I was able to have this same conversation a decade ago.

[@cyriljorge986]

"C. elegans" "Obviously, you would need a universe" This was me once upon a time, so I can't dig too hard.

[@MonsterAlgebra]

What's your argument?

[@cyriljorge986]

@@MonsterAlgebra I'm not making an argument, I'm noting what is self-evident

[@MonsterAlgebra]

@@cyriljorge986 What brought you out of "that mire"?

[@cyriljorge986]

@@MonsterAlgebra God and the gift of self-reflection

[@alexf1007]

compatibilism, formally, is the theory that determinism (exhaustive, causal determinism) is "compatible" with free will. Theistic compatibilists (most Calvinists) say that somehow and mysteriously, God causally determines all events, but that we are still "free" because of _reasons_ (usually something like our actions stem from our desires, so that means they're free. Except on compatibilism, those wants and desires themselves were not ultimately "up to us"). Jay and his caller seemed to be using it in a more idiosyncratic way, in which God is still sovereign and providential, even though man has genuine freewill, where "genuine" means libertarian and therefore indetermined. Jay's already a wellspring of knowledge in many areas -- I wonder what he'd say if he were steeped in the modern literature on the topic of action theory. Nevertheless as St Maximos even confessed, the human will is self-determined by the human person (or at least, it's not always determined by external causes). So although external causes may influence one's libertarian free action, they do not determine them. The person, thought of here as an irreducible cause in itself, is what settles the decision. It's also helpful to realize that Jay seemed to use "secondary causes" as in, people are their own (self-determining) causes. In other words, God is not the only cause...He created humans with causal powers, presumably those which are (libertarian) free. I only point this out because in the literature, "secondary cause" is usually referred to as causes which God caused which then determine the person. It's unclear if this is how Calvin meant it when he used the term, or, if he meant it more in the way that Jay used it. But, given the trajectory of the Reformed tradition, "secondary cause" as just another link in the chain of causal determinism which ultimately leads back to God (who is ADS, on this view) became predominant and is now the commonplace view among philosophically informed Calvinists. Furthermore, given that it is a form of monothelitism to say that God determined Christ's human will (even if there were still two wills), the Orthodox view strongly implies if not aggressively demands that the human will is libertarian free (where libertarian simply means not causally determined). So it is probably better to understand the details of saying "it's both and" as that man is a cause in himself (libertarian free), but God is still sovereign over all that happens (in other words, contra Calvinist screeching, "sovereign" is not synonymous with "one who causally determines all human choices").

[@AirportPlanes]

The western rite discussion part was very interesting. The highlight for me!

[@boardbill5852]

23:43 pretty sure that verse doesn’t say “am one” but “are one.” Regardless Christ makes it rather clear later on in John 17 in what sense he is one with the Father. And it’s not him being the same person as the Father.

[@Stsebastian8900]

Hello, I would appreciate a link to Rachel's book on lilliths origins? Thank you, in Christ, Anthony.

[@orthodoxkyle89]

I love these theological streams! I knew right away when that trad started saying “Jay,Jay, Jay, brother, Jay!” It was over.

[@spiritualthoughts6054]

Cool papist boy wanted mean jay and he got it.

[@rileyregan2900]

The first few debates were very interesting to those of us who are new to theology. Jay, I love your work.....but lighten up on people you disagree with. I think you came off on top in each debate, but your hostile approach was a bit off putting. This is coming from a big fan of your work.

[@symblica]

fuckin’ it up Jay 👍👍👍

[@YT-pf9oz]

Does this guy think all protestants are not saved?

[@justin_sanchez_]

Protestants have a false gospel. That doesn't necessarily translate into all Protestants going to hell, but it makes it much more difficult to go to heaven

[@mariorizkallah5383]

If you think you are “saved” you are full of pride and prelest.

[@ruspesca8443]

No one is "saved " per se. There is no such thing

[@zenVylin]

Jay misunderstands maya. Saying the world is illusion never meant the world is not real, it means the world is not as it appears to be.

[@konstantine4847]

That still doesn’t matter because we are realists here. Things really do exist independent of the mind. And things really do exist distinctively from eachother. Anything that contradicts realism that is “real existence” automatically fails as a serious worldview.

[@platonin5673]

@@konstantine4847 If ''things'' would be objectively distinct there would have been no possibility for them to exist in a shared reality. Mind and matter in relationship to one another do possess difference, but this difference can't exist on a metaphysical level, for this would imply an ontological separation which would eliminate the possibility of having an integrated experience. Monism is inescapable.

[@konstantine4847]

@@platonin5673 Well you completely butchered what realism says and I have to question your honesty when it comes to philosophical topics. When one says things exist “distinct from eachother” one is saying a tree is distinct from a baseball. A baseball isn’t a tree and a tree isn’t a baseball. It’s a tree

[@konstantine4847]

@@platonin5673 Even more dishonestly so to assert the claim that if one recognizes that a tree isn’t a baseball but different eachother has the consequences of “no possibility for them to exist in a shared reality” is the worse type of sophistry I have ever heard. A couple a ways to refute this is the simple fact that we already do this. Say we are in the park and I say “let’s play catch” and you say okay, you are not going to expect me be throwing back and forth a tree with you but instead a baseball. In that moment when you recognize that what I’m throwing you a baseball instead of tree are we breaking reality? Number 2 the reality universals or essences completely destroy any type of low level monism “all is one” the fact that things have properties in its existence completely destroy your “all is one”

[@platonin5673]

@@konstantine4847 To answer your first criticism, confirming that qualitative and quantitative differences exist presupposes an integrated (or unified) experience in which these differences are observed. Your example doesn't refute this claim, and the existence of universals is no exception to this. Monism doesn't argue that everything is suspended from a transcendent principle that is inherently singular (creating the problems you have described), but that everything emanates from a metaphysical source that is infinite and therefore escapes all cataphatic terminology. Nevertheless, treating the first principle of existence as singular makes the least presuppositions it from an affirmative point of view, and to that degree divine simplicity is a more justified approach to explaining the nature of God than assuming that true distinctions can exist in something that is transcendent by nature.