Heathcliff Isn't White

[@miceandben]

The Brontes were an abolitionist family, Emily absolutely knew what she was implying in her words regarding Heathcliff

[@ashleighcalvert8937]

I hate that everyone from the past is assumed to be ignorant and racist. Just because it was a “different time” and racism was a generally accepted thing does not mean that every one of the time was. Why can we not give the benefit of the doubt to some of the most innovative minds of the time? (Or perhaps see that some are not so luminary as we like to believe) I personally believe people of the time could absolutely understand that racism and slavery were wrong but got away with it because it was popular. We need to hold people of the time more accountable for their actions with our history of them. No more “but they were racist.” We can speak of their influence but let’s not pretend these are anything more than those with the means and education to be published. Anyone with empathy and a progressive mindset would be clever enough to know how to incorporate these implications of class and race into their novel. It was no accident or ignorance that made Heathcliff and the way people reacted to him.

[@BeneGesseritWitch]

​@@ashleighcalvert8937 Abolition and overt racism can be mutually exclusive.

[@XinyuJiang-h3o]

@@ashleighcalvert8937Exactly! Imagine people in the future writing us now as “why do people in 2024 have systematic police violence/health care disparities/whatever, they must be a bunch of hive-mind bigots!”

[@helenl3193]

I think climate change is a great indication for how hard it is to get societal change when those in positions of power/influence profit from the thing that needs to change. Gun control in the USA too.

[@MrJibbajabbawocky]

​@BeneGesseritWitch unfortunately, a lot of American Abolitionists were of the "send them back" school of thought. I love the handle, btw.

[@lenapawlek7295]

Reminds me of how people didnt think rue was black for the hunger games

[@Princess_Weekes]

truly!

[@JK-vl9wd]

This hits for me, because I'm white and when I first read the book in middle school, I was picturing a little blond haired blue eyed white girl, and didn't think anything of it until the movie came out. Then I re-read the book and I was deeply upset with my middle school self for just automatically assuming whiteness. This is not the only time this has happened to me. Even though I'm more aware of it now, it's a constant journey for me, to back the fuck up and remember that there are people who don't look like me and they belong in these stories too.

[@kerenacosta6946]

​@@JK-vl9wd it's not just a matter of POC characters belonging. They will be in stories. Always

[@ragingdevi]

I never read the books so I didn't get why people were mad, until I walked into work one day and one of my coworkers was like "I have to tell someone about this!!" and ranted for many minutes about how she's black in the book and everyone was *very* stupid. What a way to find out about drama lol

[@imjumokay]

its crazy because emily brontë was not subtle like she used every single word to clarify Heathcliff is NOT white and that is the FIRST thing everyone notices and comments on about him.

[@Princess_Weekes]

Right! It is very much on the nose!!

[@ellebee4112]

In fact, Emily Brontë really disliked Jane Austen novels as she felt Austen was way too subtle in her books messaging about class disparity and the ridiculousness of social norms and people in high society.

[@6HauntedDays]

He wasn't black tho 😂🙄 he was a gypsy....so had darker skin that's IT. I mean come on

[@Bullovvic]

@@6HauntedDays Romani people have not been excused from racism. They have not been seen as "white".

[@ereagan4]

@@6HauntedDaysWe can’t use that word anymore 😬

[@stevelandmartin-khan2430]

Incest in gothic fiction is very “Leonardo DiCaprio pointing at the TV” meme. It’s not in every story. But it’s basically a free space on a bingo card.

[@leticiaduarte9840]

I think because before the 20s a marriage between cousins was not seen as incest as we see today, it was a desirable marriage (a person you know and the wealth still stays in the family). Today we see it as wrong in the moral level and the medical level, but before it was a not issue, in general

[@snowpocalypse69]

​@@leticiaduarte9840yeah, although sibling incest and parent-child incest were common themes of gothic literature, cousin marriage wasn't meaningfully considered incest at the time especially among European aristocracy

[@MrPiccoloku]

@@snowpocalypse69 That explains almost everything about how absolute monarchs behave. The fact that they're absolute monarchs explains the rest.

[@Dani-l6d]

As a I understood from the book, Heathcliff being perceived as non white during his childhood is such a big part of his story that I can't even comprehend how anyone could argue the opposite. Like I seriously got the vibe as I read that Emily Bronte was being pretty on the nose about it, and that casting choice in the year of our lord 2024 makes me feel like I'm going insane

[@shadowseer07]

There’s genuinely no other explanation for the behavior of other characters towards him, and it’s so openly stated throughout the novel, like it’s clear some people just truly lack reading comprehension

[@KateKatastrophe]

He doesn't even speak English when he arrives.

[@jackdoyle7453]

I think its because some people, just don't realise there were non white people in Europe and the UK before the post war immigration boom, so probably never having read the text nor knowing the history particularly in British ports they assume that casting non white actors in the role is some sort of progressive casting.

[@brees3]

When I first read it, it was before I was aware this was even a hot take. It was just... Very plain that Heathcliff was canonically a person of color. He is overtly described as non-white and characters around him literally debate where they think he's from. When I saw this was something people debated, I felt like I was taking crazy pills

[@apocalypse.is.near.]

EXACTLY! I plan on making an animated adaptation of it one day because how do we have so many movies and heathcliffe is white in almost all of them 😭😭😭

[@AmelieButler-mk2rd]

I feel like it's especially gutting that we still aren't getting a Romani man to play Heathcliff because there's been a lot of Romani erasure in media recently that people are willing to sweep aside as if it doesn't matter. Most prominently actually in comic book media, where canonically Romani Dick Grayson was portrayed in that Titan's show by white Brenton Thwaites, and the canonically Romani Maximoff twins were not only whitewashed in being played by Elizabeth Olsen and Aaaron Taylor-Johnson, but literally turned into Nazis through being voluntary Hydra recruits despite the Romani being one of the other major groups specifically targeted during the Holocaust (and Olsen consistently using the g-slur to refer to Wanda despite being told it's a slur and again, the character being white-washed due to being played by a white woman and not a Romani actress).

[@medsm3113]

Shout it louder for the people in the back 👏

[@vbittencourt]

How about Victor Von Doom being played para RDJr?

[@tatianaoliveira2191]

​@@vbittencourt worst casting choice ever

[@AmelieButler-mk2rd]

@@vbittencourt Was literally kicking myself after this comment because literally yeah, RDJ as Victor Von Doom who is ALSO Romani and whose Romani heritage, like the Maximoffs, actually plays a big part in his character and why he is how he is and can't be brushed off and yet is all so that we can have another white dude play him.

[@xanecho]

The Maximoff twins drive me crazy because they're mixed Romani and Jewish and the MCU decided to portray NEITHER

[@brees3]

There often feels like there's a white elitism regarding classic lit. It is just impossible for some folks to imagine they weren't the only types of people existing in the 1800s. And it becomes kind of funny watching the mental gymnastics of recognizing a piece of classic lit as profound, intelligent, worthy of academic study. But then seeing the same people lauding the novel going "oh well Emily didn't understand what she was writing here. She didn't mean it that way." It's almost like to them, authors like Emily Bronte didn't have real, conscious skill that was practiced and honed. It's like she accidentally wrote one of the most enduring classics of the English language. Like she wandered into the kitchen, forgot what she was there for, and incidentally scribbled down a manuscript.

[@applecoreeater]

I feel like there's a class element to it as well. These people probably wouldn't have an issue with a POC character being a servant, but it's because the character is "in society" imo. But really it comes down to a simplistic view of the socio-cultural and political landscape of the 19th century.

[@kimberlyterasaki4843]

Literally in my English 200 class, my teacher highlighted the fact that Heathcliffe is outright stated to be Romani / POC. And my teacher was 60 year old white man. The fact that some people continue to deny that he is POC is wild to me, it's literally in the text! Also, it is funny that people are more accepting of Bridgerton's mixed race casting but still cling to the idea of white Heathcliffe. I know it's probably different audiences but still.

[@alexbennet4195]

Gурsy =/= Romanі. Or was there something else in the text? I appreciate that what “dаrk-skіnned” meant from perspective of a Victorian woman might be very different to what people living in a multicultural society nowadays would think, and may have literally just meant “tanned”?

[@JamesCarter1998]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it a bit more ambiguous than that? I know that Heathcliff is also referred to in the text as a “Lascar”(which was a slang term for sailors from the Indian subcontinent at the time); therefore there are a lot of academics who believe that Heathcliff is of(possibly mixed) Indian heritage. I’m definitely not saying that it’s wrong or inaccurate to read him as Romani(there’s certainly a strong case for that interpretation) but I feel like the text is ambiguous enough that many people also read him as Indian(or even Jewish). Heck, I have even seen some academics argue that he may even be Irish(as the Irish were seen as a distinct race by the British at that time, and Irish people were sometimes referred to as “dark”. Alas - I think we can all agree that he *probably* did not look like Jacob Elordi 🤷🏼‍♂️😳🤣

[@sofiajeppsson809]

@@JamesCarter1998 She explicitly talks about "lascar" in the video, and how it's left very ambiguous.

[@trinidadgondi]

​@@alexbennet4195 while you are correct that someone being "dark" had different meanings back then, the character is repeatedly otherized in ways that indicate that he looked very different from the people around him, he looked "foreign", so he was probably more than just a tanned English dude. Other characters in novels of the time that are described as dark but are meant to just be tanned or dark-haired don't get constantly compared to Romani people, or Lascar, and are not seen as different from the people around them

[@jinmushui1soul]

​@@alexbennet4195I bet you think a n**** just means "your homie", right? goofy

[@a.m.7877]

I appreciate you touching on the historical context of Wuthering Heights, the slave trade, and mulatto characters in 19th-century English literature, etc. - but even if you didn’t know any of that, and only read the book, I still don’t understand how anyone could argue against Heathcliff being portrayed as Black or Indian or even Chinese? Like, it’s absolutely WILD to me that people confidently claim he’s meant to be Irish, or that his darkness was always more “metaphysical than literal” (a comment I read about Andrea Arnold’s film adaptation). Like, guys. Emily Brontë was not some naive little girl. She was a well-educated, 29-year-old woman, and she wrote with intent about controversial subject matter (so controversial that her big sis later waged a PR campaign to exonerate her in the court of public opinion… but that’s another story). It’s not happenstance that multiple characters in the book call Heathcliff Romani, or a SEA sailor/Lascar, or an “American castaway” (i.e. a Black slave from the Americas). It’s not a meaningless aside when Nelly Dean imagines Heathcliff is the kidnapped offspring of Indian and Chinese royalty and praises him for not being a “regular Black.” Like, this is not a case of “tall, dark, and handsome” meaning “white person with dark hair/eyes” (Cathy has dark hair and dark eyes, but Heathcliff is still visibly different from her, visibly “Other”). Ugh. Sorry for the rant. I just find it so insulting, to act like Emily Brontë didn’t actually mean what she wrote…

[@masonallen3961]

I'm sure Princess already knows this (because she is an incredibly thorough researcher) but there is a bit of irony about the 1939 adaptation of Wuthering Heights. Merle Oberon who played Catherine was of mixed European-Asian-Maori descent who passed as white in Hollywood. So she knew something about the racial ambiguity of Heathcliff.

[@impposter560]

I was thinking something similar! She was objectified for being 'exotic', but STILL had bend over backwards to hide any hint of her ancestry, even to her lovers. Oberon was amazing (and sad), I wish there was more reliable information about her out there

[@moustik31]

I looked her up and wow, she was stunning!

[@ratajamieson5828]

if you’re interested in merle oberon’s story, there is a film loosely inspired by her experience called “white lies” directed by Dana rotberg based on the novella by witi ihimaera - do check the warnings and ratings on it before you do though ❤

[@mirandabee2323]

I'm looking at pictures of her, and I see similarities to myself (wasian, though Filipino instead of Sri Lankan) and my lola.

[@SarabellumKE]

I find the argument that Black people must always be presented in a positive light frustrating, as it often overlooks the complexities of our experiences and histories. Characters like Heathcliff in "Wuthering Heights" illustrate how heritage can profoundly influence an individual's struggles. Similarly, Jean Rhys's "Wide Sargasso Sea," which serves as a prequel to "Jane Eyre," delves into the nuances of identity and the impact of colonialism on characters like Antoinette. As an African who grew up in Europe with a passion for history and literature, I've observed a more nuanced acknowledgment of Black individuals and their contributions to society. Even if this recognition stems from prejudice and exoticism, it still exists and is reflected in literature. In places like Russia, for instance, there is acknowledgment of Black individuals who held power. However, when these narratives are 'Americanized', they tend to become distorted, leading to a simplification or misrepresentation of our identities and experiences. This ultimately results in a skewed perception of Black people and our histories.

[@joshuajackson530]

One of my favorite passages in Wuthering Heights is when Heathcliff and Nelly are looking at him in the mirror and he says that he will never have Lintons blue eyes. It always reminded me of Toni Morrisons bluest eye. Imo Emily was ahead of her sisters when it came to understanding people. Heathcliff being in a situation where he felt like just being who he is is a barrier to him being accepted from an ethnic standpoint was really ahead of its time.

[@brees3]

100% yes but to add: Anne was also pretty progressive. Her feminist themes and overt depictions of alcoholism were so controversial, Charlotte pulled Anne's work from circulation when Anne died. Charlotte wrote that basically Anne wasn't in her right mind and didn't understand good Christian morality.

[@zoekellam4083]

@brees3 , Anne named the DV baddie Huntingdon too. Granted, the Countess of Huntingdon was also a Calvinist -who got kicked out of the Methodists for it eventually- and Anne wrote a poem against Calvinists... Also Huntingdon was from THE most famous DV family in the aristocracy - the Earls Ferrers. However, Huntingdon also was prominent in slavery being introduced in Georgia USA. Benezet himself begged her to stop. She wanted enslaved labour to help finance her orphanages, of all things... And wow, like, I thought comparing forced marriage to slavery like Richardson and Austen was drawing a bit of a long bow. But at least nobody is trying to justify the sacrifice of either party - the most oppressed for the supposed good of the other, like Huntingdon attempted to do. Holy hell!

[@rica3947]

yes!!! reading that scene made me tear up, it was really short but so poignant.

[@silly6517]

as soon as i heard who was directing the new adaptation, i knew it was gonna be bad. soooo excited for a story set in the yorkshire moors to have australians doing posh southern english accents and for margot robbie to be playing a 20 year old and for the BFG to play an ambiguously brown man in his late 30s.

[@alexbennet4195]

I think there have already been plenty of film adaptations for you to enjoy if you don’t like this director lol

[@eriklonnrot3578]

Yeah … I lost all hope and expectation when I heard Emerald Fennell woupd be in the director’s chair. Can’t wait until we can stop collectively pretending she’s good or has anything interesting to say.

[@dtsotm]

@@alexbennet4195yeah, there’s plenty of adaptations, which begs the question, what new perspective does emerald fennel think she could possibly bring to the story, especially seeing as she has chosen to cast people who are entirely wrong for the role?

[@yippedoodah]

@@eriklonnrot3578 It seems like there's some type of hope/hype for her work but it always disappoints in the end. I myself have never seen any of her stuff but just seeing how much actual people have to say about it versus the press is interesting.

[@eriklonnrot3578]

@@yippedoodah People like the aesthetics of her movies. But it’s all style and no substance. Her “Gotcha” plot twists don’t make sense and fall apart under minimal scrutiny. And like all online edgelords (and most people 🤦🏻‍♀️) she has a poor understanding of systemic power, so she thinks she’s being edgy when she’s like, “what if middle class strivers are the rEaL parasites?🤔” “You know what’s really antiestablishment is if a woman unalives herself to implicate a r*pist.”

[@Sarixis]

Not gonna lie, I'm actually super curious about that colorism in fairy tales thesis you did. I'm sure plenty will lose their minds about it, but as someone researching fairy tales, it'd be fascinating to hear that perspective and research to reassess how we retell such stories in the future.

[@amcleartayba]

I was just about to write the same thing in the comments. I want to read or hear about her research into fairy tales.

[@TulilaSalome]

It would be interesting to see a deeper analysis, but it's sort of obvious, how many fairytales have a good sister with golden hair who is dutiful and kind and the selfish lazy sister has black hair? Or, the villains or monsters may also be described as dark in some way, if not straight up as simple antisemitic stereotypes.

[@hinasakukimi]

@@TulilaSalome i mean, what i like about Princess is that her analysis is always so layered. like she doesn't just go "thing bad", she'll dig into the nuances and point out characters she loves or identifies with too despite (and sometimes because of) how they're Othered by the author. so it's probably not that "obvious"

[@amcleartayba]

@TulilaSalome I mean, yeah, it’s not difficult to see that European fairy tales really like their golden hair, fair skinned maidens and men. But I love diving deep into stuff concerning fairy tales.

[@coninia]

@@Sarixis yesss me too

[@alyssagoss2299]

I really appreciate Princess's outfit in this one. I recognized right away that her hairstyle was evoking the Brontes but it wasn't until she put up the picture of the sisters that I realized it was the whole outfit right down to the neckline of her top. That's the sort of attention to detail that really makes these videos special.

[@daphnesbella17043]

"why are y'all so mad?? You should work on that" is the quote I will add to my vocabulary 😂😂

[@heartshapedbox3529]

One thing that I thought about for a long time was the argument that, since Heathcliff is such a bad guy, why would we want a POC representation on him, etc. But despite everything, I still think Heathcliff is perceived as a character to have sympathy towards. He never lied about his decisions or reasonings, and as much as Nelly, the narrator, despises his actions, you can still feel a bit of fondness for him (or maybe it's just me, idk). So I think it would be great to see more representation with such a complex and compelling character. Also, I think we all would benefit so much from a series adaptation, I hate how most movies disregard the second generation

[@talkslikejune]

Not just you, Nelly definitely pitied him and witnessed a lot of the abuse he endured from Hindley as well as little Catherine’s cruelty toward him when she returned from the Lintons. Nelly didn’t like that he became a monster, but she saw firsthand what made him become one.

[@SunnyDaysAOK]

Heathcliff is human. POC are human.

[@ani_kiku]

Not to mention that Hareton genuinely seemed to love Heathcliff like he was his real father. Heathcliff also mentioned several times that he wished Hareton was his son instead of Linton and seemed to love Hareton despite the fact that he was Hindleys son Also I fully agree that it is wrong to disregard the second half the book so easily and I think many who do this don't get the story at all. The second half is just as important as the first half and also the key to understand it and why everything turned out so horribly for the first generation characters

[@miriam8376]

I have tremendous empathy for Heathcliff. I think the point of the novel is not that Heathcliff is bad innately, or due to his ethnicity, but because he has had good paths taken away by his abuse and the prejudice he’s faced, and that when given crappy choices, he fought back in ways that prioritized his anger over his compassion. That’s not a race thing-that’s a human thing. I’m really not a fan of the “marginalized people can only be depicted as good guys” idea of representation because that’s every bit as unrealistic and dehumanizing as always casting them as monsters. It’s a form of benevolent racism, I think, and a dangerous oversimplification. Instead, I think Brontë manages beautifully to make us empathize with who Heathcliff could have been, and wanted to be, and wasn’t allowed to be.

[@catherineescobar3123]

@@miriam8376I’d argue that the end with Hareton and Cathy was even about them fulfilling what Heathcliff and Catherine were denied - Heathcliff and Cathy’s literal and spiritual children doing that. Further, Heathcliff is a horrifically abusive husband and father, but the book explores the way childhood trauma drives later behavior. And ends on a hopeful note about two young people choosing happiness and love despite the abuse they suffered.

[@lydia1634]

My read on Wuthering Heights is that it's a tale about generational sin. Heathcliff's adopted family treat him like a monster and then they are disgusted when he actually becomes one. They create a monster through their cruelty, and then that monster wrecks their lives, into the third generation.

[@catherineescobar3123]

I’d say it’s ultimately about overcoming generational sin and trauma. The book ends with the third generation in love and happy. Being kind to each other and leaving the Heights behind. Heathcliff himself ultimately abandons his quest to destroy Cathy II and Hareton. It’s a surprisingly hopeful ending I’d say.

[@lydia1634]

@catherineescobar3123 Fair. In either case, I do think a lot of the thematic weight of the story is lost when only the first half is adapted.

[@catherineescobar3123]

@@lydia1634Absolutely. It completely misses the point and themes of the story.

[@brookb5890]

Bringing up The Count of Monte Cristo just reminds me of how I always pictured Edmond to be black/mixed. I think this is partially because my copy as a kid had a portrait of Alexandre Dumas on the cover. Still, I also think the way society treats him and treats many of Dumas' characters that there's way more argumentation for them to be mixed (which makes sense given his dad was an inspiration for most of them). I wish we got more of that nuance in the adaptations.

[@jaduspeaks4754]

I started reading The Count of Monte Cristo back in late spring/early summer of 2020, but I ended up putting it down because I just was unable to focus on it at that time. I immediately understood Edmond to be Black or mixed, and to me, it added an extra layer of complexity for a man with that identity to be wrongfully imprisoned and then choose to seek revenge on those who were responsible for his imprisonment and loss of years of freedom. If you read Edmond as white, I feel like his revenge quest doesn't feel as sympathetic.

[@maryhughes1087]

I've watched several videos at this point about the Wuthering Heights castings and Heathcliff's racial ambiguity, But yours is the first to explain why it's important in today's landscape to cast according to the implication rather than defaulting to the established norm. Thank you.

[@ranniazorya]

I also just wanted to add to support your ‘racialization occurring through perception and being fluid’ point that in the Indian subcontinent (Pakistan, India, Bangladesh), the British colonial empire constructed race in a way that combined physique, ethnicity, caste and religion. So they created ‘martial races’ (a hierarchy of people who are apparently inherently good at being militant and should be in the army) which included Pashtuns (ethnicity), Rajputs (caste) and Sikhs (religious group). Race often comprises multiple compounding identities. They would also regard Sindhi (ethnicity and language) Hindu (religion) merchants (caste and occupation) as differently masculine from Sindhi Muslim peasants. They were racializing somewhat fluidly and like you point out, their racialization in Region A (such as their empire in the subcontinent) is informed by their research in Region B (their empire in Africa). These categories all inform each other, so British concepts of Blackness then inform their understanding of Sindhi-ness and vice versa.

[@scottbutler5]

I got into this same argument with someone recently regarding Katniss from the Hunger Games series. People will argue themselves hoarse that a particular physical description doesn't *necessarily* *have to* mean that the character can't be white, while completely ignoring the role that race and racial difference plays in the story.

[@TheSim1derful]

I've honestly always thought of Dev Patel as Heathcliffe since I became aware of him years ago (and given my as-of-2022-acquired IWTV brainrot, Assad Zaman or Jacob Anderson would be great too). But my ULTIMATE FANCAST for Heathcliffe is DAVID JONSSON. What a missed opportunity

[@futuristicgirl14]

That’s so crazy I was literally saying those two would be my peak casting for Heathcliff esp David. You’re a genius!

[@zevscozyplace]

The Brooklyn Rage clip from Yu-Gi-Oh The Abridged Series hit me like a brick and knocked me back into eighth grade going to my very first anime convention

[@MoonlightBrillance]

Same lol. Went to rewatch it after I finished the video, good times.

[@martymcflown3707]

It is incredibly frustrating that representation still has to be explained in primary school terms to people who should know better. Like how the majority can look at the pie chart where they're 98% represented but still scream about something being "taken away from them" when minority groups are given even one more percentage point.

[@alexbennet4195]

I think people are annoyed not that anyone suggested he *сould* be blаck/brown/non-white, or that one adaptation *did* cast a blасk man, but that now people are attасking the fact that this adaptation has *not* cast a blасk/brоwn/non-white man. Which IS pretty weird if his ethnicity is actually ambiguous in the book.

[@guhey]

​@@alexbennet4195No shade to you, but why are you arguing everywhere in this comment section. His ethnicity is clearly not unambiguous. You don't need to wrong and loud​.

[@TheNumnutRandomness]

@@guhey Right? "Here's my essay on why Heathcliff's race is not as ambiguous as many people make it out to be, including historical context, literary context, and author background." "Actually, the author maybe probably slightly tanned white?? Haha, jk, but actually... Idk, haven't read the book, but you seem wrong :)"

[@moustik31]

Heathcliff's racial ambiguity (and social lack of status) plays a huge unsaid part in the reasons why, Cathy never considered him a serious candidate for her hand. He looks up to her and she looks up to Linton.

[@talkslikejune]

One part of the text that supports Heathcliff being non white (for me) is that when he first arrives, Nelly says that he’s speaking in “some gibberish that nobody could understand.” I take this to imply that it was his native tongue, whatever that might be. One could argue that it’s just a thick accent, but there are characters in the novel (Joseph in particular) that speak English with a thick Yorkshire accent, so if Heathcliff had been speaking in a similar dialect I would assume they wouldn’t have had trouble understanding him. Original comment unrelated to the edit above: Just further info, but both of little Catherine’s love interests are her first cousins. Linton is Edgar’s nephew, and Hareton is Big Catherine’s nephew.

[@a.m.7877]

Yes! The Andrea Arnold film adaptation really leaned into that: Young Heathcliff shouts at Cathy in a foreign language when they first meet, and later Cathy asks “Can you understand me?” and teaches Heathcliff some English words/names (like her favorite bird).

[@sofiajeppsson809]

This is the main reason I assumed he had escaped enslavement in the docks of Liverpool when I read the novel. I thought that people who call him the g**** in the novel use it as a kind of catch-all for people who seem foreign/other. Because an English Romani boy would presumably know English. Present-day Swedish has these very generic racial slurs that racists use against anyone who's perceived as not white or not white enough, and I assumed that g**** had a similar function in England at the time (note: not an expert on England at the time, I'm talking about how I spontaneously read the novel). I thought that he's actually of African descent and that's why he has a different mother tongue.

[@mymthegreyful]

Thank you so much !! I'm 71 so i've been reading and re reading Wuthering Heights over 60 years. My daughter sent me here because my daughter if reading this in mid-high school. Good teaching.

[@SamM32727]

“We have too much already” is wild. We are really struggling for representation out here as Roma. Like who do we have in popular American media?Nairobi from Money Heist is the only one I can think of. And It seemed like her ethnicity and the racism she faced in the show was lost on a lot of people who watched it. Even the Netflix show Infamy, which is explicitly about a Romani character, has a white European lead actress (who I loved, but still). It’s so frustrating to see so much opportunity for great representation be wasted on adaptations that honestly make the story worse. (I’m looking at you, Elizabeth Olsen, Wanda deserved so much better. 😭) y’all want to be us so bad when you’re dressing up as us, reading tarot, or a crystal ball, but god forbid you acknowledge our actual humanity or historical presence.

[@indigoskies5434]

Exactly!! That was the chance to showcase new Romani actors. I’m actually getting so tired of repeats of well known actors the over saturation is crazy!!

[@tatianaoliveira2191]

And they (MCU / Feige) could have chosen a Romaní actor for Doctor Doom... and instead chose Robert Downey Jr.

[@NoNameHereOrThere]

@@tatianaoliveira2191 Or for Piertro and Wanda

[@tatianaoliveira2191]

​​@@NoNameHereOrThere great actors... but terrible choices for those characters. Wanda and Pietro were Romaní in the comics.

[@NoNameHereOrThere]

@@tatianaoliveira2191 That is meant, they should have been Romani.

[@foxesofautumn]

The Annie remake was mid but they understood that the way a black girl might be marginalised now was a closer fit to the way a girl who looked Celtic would be in the 20’s. Making her ginger today would have been fine but it would not have been read the same. It’s the same with Heathcliffe. (Though people made a fuss about Annie too, didn’t they.)

[@palyername]

this is only tangentially relevant but, having watched neither movie, i did not know that this sort of dynamic was at play at all, and this comment made me finally understand what "red-headed stepchild" ACTUALLY means

[@msjkramey]

I grew up with that movie and I never realized that she was supposed to be othered for being a redhead. But that makes sense. I saw some weird post the other day about how black actors were "stealing" all the redheaded characters. While it was clearly a cherrypicked list meant as a dogwhistle about the "great replacement theory," it makes a bit more sense why some casting directors might tend towards that choice. To be clear, I'm not doing those dogwhistles myself (they're complete gsrbage and white people aren't being replaced). I'm just thinking out loud here

[@dughole]

that's a super good point! i haven't ever considered the annie remake in that light, but you're absolutely correct.

[@tatianaoliveira2191]

​@@msjkramey redheads were being burned on the stake in the inquisition... They were accused of being witches and vampires because of their hair 's color...

[@msjkramey]

@@tatianaoliveira2191 where is the modern discrimination against redheads?

[@cchapman3193]

Thank you so much for this! Wuthering Heights is my favorite book of all time and I find conversations about Heathcliff’s race exceedingly frustrating. It’s not like the book has one throwaway line about him being “tall dark and handsome.” Like you show, there are soooo many instances of characters racializing him in different ways. And I agree it doesn’t matter what he “really” is. The only important thing imo is that he is NOT white, and that he is perceived as other. I think there could be a lot of ways of adapting the novel that would lean on more sympathetic views of Heathcliff (I mean, the society he grew up in is what twisted him into what he became). It’s telling that in the end, it’s implied that Heathcliff and Catherine are together in the afterlife, on the moors forevermore. There are a lot of pagan elements in the descriptions of the moors and Catherine and Heathcliff’s relationship to them. A rejection of Christianity’s heaven and hell almost (which Catherine makes explicit when she talks about her dream)

[@heartshapedbox3529]

THIS! omg. And idk, I honestly think Heathcliff is not that bad, people forget how everyone has failed him and Catherine as children and how BOTH of them became terrible people. Catherine Earnshaw is not 100% innocent Lmfao

[@cchapman3193]

@@heartshapedbox3529 exactlyyy Heathcliff is not even the worst character they’re all terrible people lol

[@shadowseer07]

@@cchapman3193That’s what gets me, people acting like Hindley or the Earnshaw’s were innocent victims when half of what Heathcliff does is in retaliation against the abuse and racism he endured. None of them are less flawed than he is.

[@prosperpascoe]

also: stoked that you mentioned assad zaman (armand in Interview with the Vampire, for the uninitiated) because not only would he be a super interesting casting choice for heathcliff, but I think the casting of Armand specifically is a really interesting example of this issue. book armand is white. growing up, he was my favourite character in anything ever. I was so utterly besotted with this evil fictional bastard. and I used to get soooo mad about the casting of antonio banderas for him. like, he was a 17 year old russian boy with curly red hair. why did you cast a 40 year old antonio? so when they announced the cast for the tv adaptation, I was once again befuddled and a bit irritated. but I reserved judgement because the rest of the info about the show seemed promising. then I watched it… and I never want to see anyone other than assad zaman playing my boy ever again. he is so utterly perfect. and I realised that the appearance of the character being book-accurate was muuuch less important than I thought. assad is easily the most beautiful man I’ve ever seen in my life, which is integral to the character. the issue with antonio wasn’t his appearance, it was that the movie fundamentally failed to understand Armand as a character and they cast antonio accordingly. and the few people I’ve seen being irrationally mad about assad’s casting are genuinely deranged if they disagree. the character works BETTER as a south asian man. and don’t even get me started on louis, who, if cast as a white man, would make the show completely unwatchable for a modern day audience. a white plantation owner from the south? as the PROTAGONIST?? those roles, and definitely heathcliff, aren’t just “colourblind casting” or whatever conservatives like to get mad about. they’re clever adaptational decisions that improve the work by tightening themes and highlighting what’s already in the text. that’s how adaptation should work. too many people are literally just too bigoted to think straight.

[@rafaela00002]

it's amazing how in iwtv they actually make the effort to think about what it means to change the race of a character, and then they go and also cast the best possible actor to the role

[@Sharpe1502]

Assad Zaman would be SO good as Heathcliff. I want this so badly now. I’ve been fancasting Rahul Kohli as older Heathcliff. But Assad Zaman would be so SO good.

[@dorkbaitart]

yes!! armand is also my favorite book character and i ADORE assad in the role and how the series has characterized him. and honestly like, to be honest, i wish more shows would do things like IWTV has done and take "canonically white" characters like louis, armand, and claudia and make them POC. honestly we don't need this unrealistic proliferation of white characters all over media. we know by now that representation matters in terms of how people perceive the world around them and it's time that media starts to catch up with reality in terms of race and ethnicity.

[@msjkramey]

I don't think that it's necessarily a bad thing to have a plantation owner as a protagonist because protagonist isn't the same thing as "hero." A protagonist is our point of view character who faces obstacles and whose story we follow. The danger is when it's not handled properly. The first thing that I think of is "American History X," which was meant to be a cautionary tale about being consumed by racial hatred and how we can pass trauma to others in the pursuit of making things "right." But white supremacists ended up falling in love with that movie because they thought the main character was so cool and completely missed the message of the story: hate breeds hate, hate destroys

[@dzrmgkva]

There's Pushkin biopic coming soon in Russia. He is our founding father of literature, greater than Tolstoy or Dostoevsky imo. However Pushkin's ancestry coming from Africa, so basically he had curly dark hair and other non Slavic features. And of course they casted fair blue eyed actor to play him. Obvi in our near fascist regime would be weird to cast mixed actor to represent poet properly, I just wondering how crazy is cultural blindness and non Russian erasure. It's important for me as ethnic minority and circassian queer woman.

[@AmandaFromWisconsin]

I heard that any presence of black African ancestry in him was debatable.

[@MadameCorgi]

​@AmandaFromWisconsin I don't know anything about him specifically, but if he had mixed ancestory wouldn't it be more plausible for him to have indigenous east Russian ancestory, anyway?

[@nimonaisverycool03]

@@MadameCorgi I get what you are trying to say, but this isn't about plausibility, kinda? His great-grandfather was freed by Peter the Great as I was taught (and was from Ethiopia, they actually have a statue of Pushkin there, I heard, so great for them) so yeah, he did have African heritage and casting him as blond and blue-eyed (when even in paintings his skin tone is clearly tan and his hair is black) is kinda wild.

[@wayfaringspacepoet]

didn't bro straight up write celebratory missives and poems glorifying various campaigns the Imperial Russian army waged on its "weaker" neighbors, expressing outrage at their audacity in not submitting and instead asserting self-determination? Pushkin had about as little regard for the dignity of nations that the Empire slaughtered and forced into submission, as Western Europeans had for African slaves and indigenous nations of Turtle Island that they colonized.

[@wayfaringspacepoet]

​@@nimonaisverycool03 Peter I, he was never "Great"

[@suveruzgar]

Fun(?) fact: Thomas-Alexandre Dumas, the father of Alexandre Dumas père (the author of the Three Musketeers and the Count of Monte Cristo) and grandfather of Alexandre Dumas fils (the author of La Dame aux Camellias, the novel that was the basis for the Verdi opera La Traviata) was also mixed-race, the child of a French nobleman and Marie-Cessette Dumas, an enslaved African woman.

[@romana34]

If my memory serves me correctly, there are Romani mentioned in her book, Emma. Race in 19th century literature was a lot more nuanced and diverse than people today give it credit for. Really disappointed on a lot of levels by this casting announcement for this new version of Wuthering Heights. I would’ve loved to seen an actor of color in the role of Heathcliff, and not only are we not getting that we are getting someone who really doesn’t look like the character. I’ve seen this guy in a couple things in passing and I don’t think he’s up for Brontë. Thank God, I have other versions to watch Really great video , with a lot of great insights.

[@AliceLanes]

Shoutout to Limbus Company for their Heathcliff character, based on Heathcliff of Wutherin Heights, to actually be dark-skinned(though it must also be said it is a reimagining of Wutherin Height in a capitalistic futuristic nightmare, and Heathcliff himself is a bit tone as it is mainly him before he came back to Wutherin Height, and instead took a less vengeful approach)

[@sciencey2858]

Another Limbus Fan!

[@halfmettlealchemist8076]

Project Moon mentioned, billions must distort

[@meanbagbeanbagturtle8618]

i mean i wouldnt say limbus' heathcliff is "dark skinned," but he is noticeably darker than everyone else on the bus except outis and doesnt really look white in the way that he does in other adaptations (though maybe thats just when hes standing next to hong lu and his paper white skin tone..)

[@tylersutton3224]

HOW MUCH I WISHED FOR ANOTHER BETTER HAPPIER BRIGHTER FUTURE

[@trashman8080]

@@meanbagbeanbagturtle8618 he's clearly poc at least. PM just tend to use a faded tone overall, but people who are clearly poc like outis and queequeg are still visibly darker.

[@anon9067]

i haven't read wuthering heights in about 10 years, but i have read it a couple of times, and i definitely thought when i first read it that heathcliff was mr. earnshaw's mixed race, secret child, with his mother being black african. it would explain mr. earnshaw's favoritism towards him, as well as hindley's jealousy and violence (he knows he's his father's son and sees him as a threat to his inheritance.) if heathcliff was aware, it would also add a layer to his motivation that he seize possession of wuthering heights. it adds an extra layer of creepiness to his and catherine earnshaw's relationship, though, because they would be half-siblings :/ p.s.: big agree that white folk don't know how to discern\interpret race

[@lunadiggorytennant]

I did start this video out by thinking Assad Zaman would make for a fantastic Heathcliff, knowing nothing of fancasting, and hearing you specifically mention him made me squeal, not gonna lie

[@clararivolli5415]

Assad could not be cast as Heathcliff because I would not survive it.

[@giuliaparolaro7063]

This is perfect! I always imagined Heathcliff looking like that

[@linasayshush]

He's my favorite for Heathcliff. Also Dev Patel and Rahul Kohli.

[@FHEDNR]

The way saltburn hates the poor, I can't wait to see this new version of weathering heights and what the director will do with Heathcliff's revenge😂. I am Definitely worried, Wuthering Heights is one of my favorite books

[@percyweasley9301]

You are right to worry..

[@kinolibby6580]

You had me at the word Liverpool... Also would love it if you made a Mansfield Park video. None of the KZbin Jane Austen girlies ever talk about race and it's integral to that book.

[@a.m.7877]

Also: I would love it if you ever made a video about Clarissa, lol. I know it’s an important 18th-century novel, but I’ve never heard anyone say it’s their fav before!

[@dw2art]

Phenomenal intro. I enjoy the subtle suggestion that Melina Pendulum and Princess Weekes somehow have their own identities. Looking forward to the rest of the video.

[@AnaBolinho]

First of all, love you so much, Princess!! ❤ So, my friend and I (both Brazilian latinas and literature nerds) were talking about this YESTERDAY, although it's an on-going conversation that resurfaces now and then, but our fancasting of Heathclif is Indian/Pakistani, but YES, the actor from the 2011 was the best casting so far, bc it's super annoying that the man is never a POC 🙄 and this most recent casting is absolutely disappointing! Anyways, again, we love your videos and they are often the topic of conversations between us!

[@CameloSupeito]

É tão legal achar outros brasileiros nos comentários!!!!

[@AnaBolinho]

​​@@CameloSupeito 😊 🤜🤛

[@matte5705]

Why did I think this was gonna be about the cat with the helmets

[@m_martha_e]

I used to love that cartoon 😊

[@VinceWhitacre]

Yeah this is so silly, everybody knows Heathcliff is an orange tabby 😂

[@geriatricmillennial.5160]

😅

[@friend_trilobot]

Ok, Now i can't stop imagining an adaptation of wuthering heights with Heathcliff the cat

[@flowerheit4512]

​@@friend_trilobotHeathcliff, Jimmy, and Garbage Ape is forced to choose between the two

[@madalenajuma9421]

This video couldn't have come at a better time- I have just started reading Wuthering Heights and have been contemplating the importance of race and Heathcliff's racial identity in the book. As a mixed Portuguese-Indian girl, his ambiguity speaks to me through his descriptions. I also lived in Liverpool for a while and can tell ya that there is a significant Black population there to this day, so being mixed Black is also easily an option. I also found Liverpool to be very racist to me and my brown friends, so it is a city steeped in interesting history, and when you said it was the most Confederate place besides the South of USA actually rings true in some ways even now sadly...

[@MsJayteeListens]

If people don’t think Heathcliff could be black or the child of enslaved people, can they google Nathaniel Wells, the first black sheriff in Britain and a wealthy landowner. He died in 1852 so was alive when Wuthering Heights was written.

[@MadameCorgi]

There were thousands of black people in England during the Georgian period so it is very plausible.

[@tatianaoliveira2191]

Heathcliff is Romaní (Indo-Aryan / gypsy) Romaní are original from India (Punjab and Rajasthan areas) ▪︎ Also, it's implied (book) that he's mr. Earnshaw 's illegitimate son

[@estelacpc]

trying to use this 19th century definition of "dark" as a gotcha really shows that they haven't read a single page of wuthering heights 😭😭 and it's so infuriating for those people to accuse YOU of not having read it 💀 anyway, i can't believe emerald fennell found a way to disappoint me when i already didn't expect a single good thing from this fucking adaptation

[@H.P.93]

I don't like either of the main character casting. Heathcliff needs to be at least mixed race or parts of the story don't make sense. The perceptions of his race are a key point in why he's treated so badly and why he grows up into the person he becomes, who is not a good person. Furthermore, I love Margot Robbie, but Cathy dies relatively young so you only get her in the past flashbacks, not in the present storylines where you instead meet her daughter. And I just can't buy Margot robbie as being a teenager or early 20s. I genuinely don't understand this casting.

[@andthatsshannii]

There’s even a famous painting of a biracial black woman who was raised by her white family members in England from around that time - Dido Belle. She was othered and put in the background of portraits, etc but still allowed to live a fairly middle-class life and was raised as a member of the family (if a somewhat awkward one - her father never acknowledged her or had her in his will). She was educated, friendly with the rest of the family and married a white man, getting enough of an inheritance from her uncle to afford a house just outside London. Sure, she worked for the family, but she was still treated as a member of the family closer to a general illegitimate child. Her presence helped to dispel the idea that black people didn’t have the same capacity for intelligence for a lot of people who visited. It’s not implausible for Heathcliff to be in a similar position. Of course, Belle’s case was highly unusual, but so is Heathcliff’s in the book

[@ambivertreader]

I understand why people would want Jacob Elordi in the role of Heathcliff, because he's really good at striking a balance between intense and alluring, but its like, dude. Dude. Hindley is right there! In the books, Hindley was just as broody and intense as Heathcliff, he just didnt have as compelling of a backstory. I think Jacob would really being that character to life and make him both intensely hateable and sympathetic

[@notetakerx430]

It's frustrating being in a community that expects you to constantly prove/explain/justify what you say, do, and think, and then put so much work into thoroughly and diplomatically doing that, and then have people fall over themselves to misunderstand and not listen to you. It sucks and it's crazy-making. Idk if it's helpful to say but I like the level of thought / detail you put in and I don't think it's confusing. I've really liked these videos on the 'tall, dark, and handsome' and 'dangerous hot guy' tropes and how race and racism can be seen implicitly and explicitly in those stories. It's cool hearing about the historical context w/o the whitewashing and getting a better sense of where these stories were coming from / why they are the way they are. Esp cuz ime they're treated as sort of having always been here and being politically semi-neutral (which can be kind of insidious and reinforce bad patterns).

[@Lonni_K]

One of my masters courses this semester is called "normalitet of afvigelse" translated to normality and the abject/abnormal/diviant (I study Danish) and I've been unsure what to write my exam about. But I think you've open my eyes to Wuthering Heights as subject for analysis, or more specific Heathcliff (with his race, enthinicty and class) as the outsider/the abnormal. And then put into context of Jacob Elordi's casting, and discussions about representation and race in today's media. So thank you for the inspiration. And thank you for a very well put together and insightful video

[@pashawasha47]

"I can fucking read" - something I'm gonna embroider on a pillow, thank you Weekes!

[@swisscheeseify]

I had no idea that you had a Master's degree, but as someone who's been a fan of your work for awhile, it definitely shows. Your videos are always thoroughly researched, well-argued, and always leave me with new ways of thinking about the media I consume.

[@ADavidJohnson]

I admit to not being very cultured and in particular not enjoying my attempts at reading 19th century novels in general. But your description of “Wuthering Heights” with this reading/context of Heathcliff made it sound like it might be worth trying to revisit.

[@a.m.7877]

If you struggle with classic literature, I recommend the Wuthering Heights audiobook on Audible, narrated by Joanne Froggatt (who played Anna Bates on Downton Abbey)! I often find listening to audiobooks easier than reading 19th-century lit myself. Wuthering Heights in particular contains regional dialects and written accents that a lot of readers struggle with (but it’s easy to understand when a good actor narrates).

[@ADavidJohnson]

@@a.m.7877 It’s not classic literature or even all 19th century writing I don’t like but almost all the novels, specifically. Like, I really enjoy Gulliver’s Travels, William Blake’s poetry and Poe’s short stories. Grant’s Memoirs were very easy reading. But - and maybe it’s because of the way they were originally written and published - Jane Austen, the Brontes, Charles Dickens, Nathaniel Hawthorne, William James just feel like I am doing work and wasting time while I (try to) read them. I really can’t stand to *long* works of theirs that take more than one sitting when I’ve tried to before. Exceptions are Mark Twain, who is obviously problematic but “Huck Finn” was still a pleasurable read the last time I tried it. Dostoevsky in general really gripped me, and “Crime and Punishment” felt until the end like it could have been written in the past couple of years, but I’ve given up on Tolstoy books a few times now. You’re right about audiobooks probably helping.

[@eibhilinor7712]

Been excited for your take on this! I’ve been rooting for Emerald Fennell, but she’s lost me with this. So disappointed. Love your videos :)

[@alexbennet4195]

You haven’t even let her cook lol. She might actually be doing something interesting with this, idk

[@tired690]

@@alexbennet4195 she shouldn't be allowed in the kitchen if she can't even bother to read the recipe

[@alexbennet4195]

@@tired690I don’t actually think there’s any hаrd evidеnce that’s he’s definitively mеant to be nоn-whіtе…?

[@tired690]

@@alexbennet4195 did you even read the book?

[@whymihere86]

Watched on Nebula and had to stop once I heard Yu-Gi-Oh abridged and fell into a little Kuriboh song spiral before coming back. Excellent video. Honestly, youve helped me become more contemplative in my writing along with several other members on Nebula.

[@camhunts]

Talk yo shit Princess 🤎

[@Scriven42]

The pause for the tea drinking? 🤌 Perfect.

[@idab9958]

First Netflix's Persuasion and now this? It's as if all of Hollywood is in a competition to see who can make the most disrespectful adaptation of a classic novel.

[@avajanzen5877]

not to mention the atrocious dorian gray adaptation coming up, too. what are these people thinking?!

[@avajanzen5877]

@KC-2049 aw i LOVE that movie! i thought it captured the essence so well. but that’s just my opinion! what about it didn’t you like?

[@islasullivan3463]

@ava I think they are to say that Emma was actually a respectful adaptation as it refuses to be a part of this competition for bad adaptations.

[@avajanzen5877]

@@islasullivan3463 oh i see!! omg thank you for clarifying that for me. i was like Emma 2020 is phenomenal!!! k yeah agreed

[@jaimzag]

I'm not great with names so had to look the director up and was extremely unsurprised to see she was behind casting a cis man for The Danish Girl, but also you'd think after that debacle she'd have learnt a liiiiiiiiiiiittle more tact when it came to casting minority characters in her films 🤦‍♂ That aside, this was super interesting, fuck everybody who tries to tell you that you don't know what you're talking about - I'm a white brit and I will 100% concede you know way more about this topic than me!

[@jaimzag]

(also I JUST got nebula so will 100% be looking out for your stuff on there too!!)

[@jdow615]

Preach! I dont comment much, but your videos truly give me insight and miss my time as an English student. Thank you for all the work and passion you put into your projects!

[@whatever_idk_man2240]

Don’t usually leave comments in general but just wanna say thank you for being you. You’re awesome and one of the best channels I’ve found or found me in long time

[@KidFlashRX]

Great Job!

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

Yeah, Emerald is hiding behind plausible deniability with this one, indeed disappointing

[@alexbennet4195]

So it’s plausible? What’s the problem if it’s plausible?

[@Heliandis17]

@@alexbennet4195I mean possible deniability is an overstatement the book describes Heathcliff in a way that it is obvious that he is not white. They use racial slurs to describe him, a lot of people kind of guess his ethnicity in the book. Sure this is not the first time a movie adaptation chooses a white actor but I do think is more of boring choice.

[@tamaravsthevoid]

Your expertise on these issues are always so appreciated, it’s why I have nebula!! My background is. Criminology Leahl theory and Political Science, so I get the historical context and the societal tensions that result in so many of the things we take for granted, but man watching you use that info to break down literature is a whole nother level. Appreciate you sharing your knowledge and insights with us ❤❤❤

[@eiqhties1140]

While people getting upset over casting black actors (or actors of colour) in any role is never really a good sign - it is particularly confounding when you're looking at a character like Heathcliff. I studied Wuthering Heights in school about eight years ago now, and we were explicitly told to mention in our analysis of the book Heathcliff's struggle to fit into the society he was raised within was partly because he was not a white character. Although my teacher acknowledged he COULD be Italian, etc - she too pointed to the history and significance of Liverpool's ports and the way he's othered throughout the book as looking like an 'outsider' - efforts are made to show his differences physically, even when there are other dark haired characters in the book - like Cathy herself. He is visibly, strikingly different enough that EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER comments on it. It is one of the most consistent facts of the book - and hints to Heathcliff looking like. Um. Someone other than Jacob Elordi... It's just a baffling case of literary revisionism to continually cast Heathcliff as a white man, and it's also insulting to Emily Bronte to act as though she didn't write Heathcliff's physical appearance with intent.

[@Redpanda99998]

As an Australian how doesn’t get a lot of the more nuanced context of American and European history without actively seeking it out i love the depth that you put into everything and add the context that’s so often disregarded whether it be a more serious discussion like with this video or why people wanna fuck monsters. Always check your channel to see if a videos dropped and I’m up to date.

[@shelbytiger07]

You were going off and I loved it. I know very little about Wuthering Heights but you made me want to check it out.

[@LivexLifexLost]

I read this book for the first time last semester and was really surprised that I hadn't seen more people talking about it because of Heathcliff's ambiguous race and ethnicity. Love the video!

[@rica3947]

yes omg that's such a good fit imo!

[@butters796]

I hate that the Wicked doesn't have Fiyero as either Romani, Indigenous American, or really just not white. It would've been AMAZING if they had gotten a Palestinian actor considering the themes of genocide. If they didn't want to touch too much on today, they could've gone Romani. I'm part Sinti, and my great grandfather survived the concentration camps, so the anti genocide themes of the books really resonated and stood out for me. I hate that the musical toned that central plot point down. I hate that the movie didn't use this opportunity to make it stronger with casting a non-white person as Fiyero. AND GIVE HIM BACK HIS CULTURAL TATTOOS TOO!!!!

[@AnaBolinho]

BTW!! I would loooove to watch a video on Mexican Gothic!! It is my current hyperfocus, so it got my attention!

[@GPerla26]

You really devoured with this one 👏🏼

[@angielarsen3233]

Idk if you'll see this, but I want to say how much I appreciate you and your videos! I'm sorry to hear that people have been downplaying your talents and doubting the work you do. I'd love to hear more about your thoughts on other English classics, particularly Tess of the d'Urbervilles, which i've been obsessed with as an exploration of gender, class, and christianity

[@ashleighcalvert8937]

Ugh saying theorizing Heathcliff being black is “too far” is just flat out racist. The fact that he is more likely black than white is frankly irrelevant to the fact that they think being black is some sort of fault or impossibility in literature is INSANE. Like “Nooo my favorite romantic lead can’t be BLACK, then I wouldn’t be attracted to him anymore!” Are we going to assume a very well read and well to do family like the Brontes didn’t know about slavery?! Didn’t know about mixed race children being excluded from the wealthy white class?! It’s laughable

[@tatianaoliveira2191]

Heathcliff is Romaní (Indo-Aryan / gypsy)... that's obvious in the book Romaní deserve representation as well

[@ashleighcalvert8937]

@@tatianaoliveira2191 i agree that he is Romani I am just saying that he is more likely half black than he is white and to say otherwise is racist. As was said in the video his exact race is open to interpretation and immediately writing off the possibility of him being black is just plain wrong

[@susivarga7303]

He wasn't black, so there is that.... 🙄 ​@@ashleighcalvert8937

[@tatianaoliveira2191]

​​​​@@ashleighcalvert8937 he isn't half black in the book He's Romaní. If he was supposed to be half-anything, he would have been half white... because it's implied that he's mr. Earnshaw 's illegitimate son Read the book

[@sciencey2858]

I have Limbus Company Brainrot, so this feels surreal listening to this.

[@sharragamez1318]

Okay, hear me out: Wuthering Heights directed by Jordan Peele. You can't tell me Lockwood isn't ridiculous and quite funny, that there's nothing humorous in Nelly basically giving him the rundown on the local gossip, or that none of the melodrama could be subverted to become ridiculous. I think the horror elements speak for themselves.

[@GiulianaBruna]

... This could be awesome

[@GiulianaBruna]

Im also picturing a Mike Flanagan show. With all the family drama and tension.

[@talkslikejune]

@@GiulianaBruna I was thinking this exactly

[@FHEDNR]

I know you said this like a joke but low key? Hell yeah.

[@Pine-m6h]

Actively one of, if not the most interesting video I've watched in a long time. Nothing better than someone talking about something they're passionate and knowledgeable about and that I am very interested in learning more about.

[@Pinkdiamond-c3s]

Wuthering Heights is my mum’s favourite book and when I was 10 she read it to me - I became absolutely OBSESSED. Despite being white myself, it never occurred to me that Heathcliff was supposed to be white, because of how he was consistently described as dark-skinned in the book. I remember being honestly kind of baffled when every adaptation I watched (and enjoyed otherwise) cast a white actor. I was pleased about the casting in the Arnold version, even though I was disappointed only half the story was adapted. Honestly shocked that all these years later it’s even a debate.

[@natalieblack7813]

That keffiyeh you have towards the end of the video is gorgeous.

[@frailgrail7452]

Limbus Company’s Heathcliff being darker skinned is such a breath of fresh air.

[@misterzonkier5524]

Heathcliff…..? …. HOLY SHIT PROJECT MOON MENTIONED

[@RileyTheGhost]

Ooo~ Round and round we go~

[@clsisman]

The point about picking an actor who makes a modern audience FEEL the way an audience contemporary with Austen would have FELT about the descriptions of Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights is the perfect point. Emerald, if your casting doesn't spark controversy about Heathcliff's race, you're missing part of the impact the book had. Separate point: We're supposed to feel about Catherine and Heathcliff the way people felt about Buffy and Spike. He's a bad person: immoral, violent, dangerous, AND YET we root for them as a couple. It's the age-old romantic trope, that a virtuous woman is inflamed by the love of a wicked man, and a wicked man is made virtuous by the love of a woman. Wuthering Heights deliberately shows us an example of this NOT working out.

[@RumpledRegina]

As an actual Greek, I do agree with your point that Heathcliff NEEDS to have the same discrimination based on looks that's rooted in modern society in order for the modern adaptation to work. Yes, the book might have been talking about a darker European vs. a posh white European family, but that doesn't translate the meaning of the book today if followed to a T. They missed the mark on the casting for sure.

[@ollygaetheirnandez]

thank you for making videos on youtube. You always talk about things in an interesting and engaging way and I deeply appreciate the amount of time and effort you put into your videos.

[@codysmith3853]

I read a theory a while ago that Heathcliff is Cathy's half brother (same father) as well as being an moc and it blew me away

[@FashionableCrow]

Way better tackle of this than I could manage. Loved to hear your full thoughts on it.

[@MSK-n]

always a pleasure watching your videos - saying Exactly ! as if I even thought of the nuances 😅

[@krsissweet]

Hate you have to pull out your credentials but love to hear you talk about them!!! I wish I could make half of the connections you do

[@halfmettlealchemist8076]

I know people are going to reference this in the comments but I want to genuinely give a shout out the game Limbus Company for actually portraying a version of Heathcliff with darker skin. Honestly, the whole game is great when it comes to diversity in general - the main cast has a pretty even split between men and women with a wide variety of skin colors/body shapes, the player character is referred to with they/them pronouns, and the setting of the City is quite casual and open-minded about racial diversity (which is honestly one of the only good things about that hellhole lol). Just thought it was worth mentioning.

[@sciencey2858]

Heck yeah

[@happyquesadilla]

personally, if we're making yet another wuthering heights adaptation, my dream casting for heathcliff would be jacob anderson. not just bc i think he should be in more projects but you know he would eat up the "you say i killed you? haunt me then!" monologue

[@snitterdog7276]

Hi, very late to the table so you probably won't see this but I left a comment on your Tall Dark and Racially Ambiguous video similar to the ones you were calling out. I'd like to apologise for my wording and I didn't mean to imply Heathcliff was narratively intended to be Welsh etc., but was rather telling a personal anecdote related to what you explained at length on the trope origin. I will have more tact in the future and consider whether I am taking away from the racial focus of the discussion. Thank you for your work, I have learned and continue to learn a lot from you.

[@gentlerat]

There is no shame in being a video essayist who explains things. I liked having you explain things to me in this video as you did a good job of it. You could even change your name to "Princess the Explainer" although that would make people think you talked about dinosaurs and Mothman.

[@stampede274]

Project Moon sleeper agents activate.

[@stampede274]

Realized this might sound like some esoteric threat, so to clarify, the game Limbus Company by Project Moon has Heathcliff as a main character. This version has, through the course of the story, become a better person. It pits him against the book versions of him and Cathy, who have become multiversal threats repeating the tragedy over and over. They don't really bring up his race, but he *is* one of the darkest-skinned main characters.

[@halfmettlealchemist8076]

She Limbus on my Company till I lunacy

[@planetpluto680]

Ik it’s not the main point of the video but I’ve never really thought about the way that when people claim that Emily Brontë wouldn’t know and write about black people they’re kind of (unintentionally as it may be) calling her stupid

[@GHfan4life]

Emerald Fennel is such a hack. I have absolutely no faith in this. Margot as producer shares responsibility for this awful casting too. It’s clear they either only read the cliff notes or failed to critically engage with the literature. I hope this flops

[@llh1000]

Love your work. I'm still developing my media literacy skills, so I appreciate you!

[@danyramos8139]

OMG ANOTHER CLARISSA FAN! Can you give words of encouragement? I do like it but I’ve been reading it for a year and I’m only in like, letter 120 😫😫

[@esthercuenca4071]

No mention of the 1992 Wuthering Heights with Ralph Fiennes and Juliette Binoche? It's one of the few adaptations that includes the second generation storyline.

[@laltrasfaccettaturadelrubi6845]

I am Italian and excluding italians from afrodescent, there are a lot of italians with a variety of complexions and darker skin tones. We refer to them (i myself am quite tanned) as darker or tanned. Therefore I think I have missed quite a few poc characters in novels because reading darker skin I just automatically thought oh like tanned. (STill have a few doubts on a few of them). But Heathcliff being othered for his appearance is such an integral part of his story that i was baffled when I saw the casting. Like it is really hard to miss, said from someone that has missed it more than once. I am still very curious because I really like fennels work, and in a matter of molesting graves she surely is up to the task. All in all both of them seem out of place, so she either has a very specific vision or...we get a netflix persuasion. Ah thanks for pointing out the liverpool bit it had completely gone over my head