Heavy Rain - How to Ruin a Story

[@vapehat2679]

I once had a dream that I was making a sandwich, and I lost the peanut butter jar lid. I woke up before I was able to find it. The whereabouts of that lid haunts me to this day.

[@KimuMiyamoto]

If I find it on one of my dreams I'll let you know

[@Art-zp1qg]

Ah, so this is where the peanut butter jar lid from my dream came from. {\__/} ( • . •) / >🟠 Here you go. It belongs to you.

[@vapehat2679]

@@Art-zp1qg thank you!! I finally have the closure I've been in search of for so long. You're a true hero.

[@rebelrouzer5318]

​​@@vapehat2679so rare to see such a wholesome interaction in the comment's. You've been blessed by the internet gods.

[@pollyc.1957]

When the clerk says, "I wish I had lived long enough to look into the eyes of the man who killed my Reza..." Scott seemingly subconsciously leans forward to try to look into his eyes before he dies. It's an interesting touch.

[@angelabryant9766]

I noticed that too, I loved that little touch! I wish they kept the 'apologetic killer' angle from the first investigation going, instead of making it so inconsistent.

[@nont18411]

Too obvious, to be fair.

[@Megaritz]

That was a good moment. There was some legit foreshadowing that Scott was the killer. Sadly this foreshadowing lives alongside the fact that the game also cheats.

[@Manawolfman]

Realism already goes out the window becuase a child would die of hypothermia long before the rainwater drowned them.

[@Puxi]

Him. Shaun is a guy. Please don't be toxic using that gender-neutral language.

[@Manawolfman]

@@Puxi I went with the neutral because I meant any child, not just Shaun.

[@UsmevavyPanacek]

@@Puxi Come on, this is obviously proper place to use "them", don't be like those a-holes that came up with that crap and see some offense in everything.

[@charnetka7623]

@@Puxi Projecting much?

[@Puxi]

@@UsmevavyPanacek are u polish jewish? Becoz me is German. History repeats itself bro... carefull.

[@domyboji]

The plot point that I cannot get over.... is Scott seeing Ethan risk his own life to try save his son. And decide that wasn't good enough, he needed to do it over and get it right this time through five near-death traps 🥴 Well that and Madison's entire inclusion and character. And Shelby speed/stealth killing Manfred. Okay I could go on lol

[@sev2136]

Not to mention depending if Norman arrives to the warehouse, Scott will proceed to pull a gun on Ethan and attempt to shoot him as he's saving shaun before being stopped Norman got to have the conveyor belt into the grinder fight after all.

[@youtube-kit9450]

Yeah, Shelby's motivation makes absolutely no sense. He looked for a father who would be willing to save his son. Multiple fathers died going through the tests to save their sons, literally making the ultimate sacrifice. Then he comes along and chooses Ethan to see if he would be willing to do everything to save his son... after literally seeing him be willing to lay down his life to save his son. His motivation should've been that his father not wanting to save him broke him and made him angry at other fathers who were willing to help their sons, projecting his untreated trauma onto them. He chooses fathers who he read about/saw doing things to help their sons, wanting to prove there'd be a threshold they wouldn't be willing to cross and thus "be the same", making each test more and more brutal until every father gave up or just died. Or some nonsense like that. At least this way, his line of thinking is straight (if deranged) and not downright stupid and contradictory. Yes, he'd be mentally ill either way, but I personally prefer mentally ill people to not be portrayed as random, nonsensical and stupid and instead just as what they are - mentally ill and see the world through another lens. Or combine both and make the game's interpretation his facade which he tells himself to make himself the "good guy" in his eyes while the true reason is what I wrote and the hypocrisy gets brought up at some point.

[@robinanwaldt]

Apparently, Ethan jumping in front of the car wasn’t originally planned. The scene was written so that Jason gets hit by the car full force and flies through the air. Sony however didn’t want a scene in their game that openly depicts a child being brutalized, so they changed it to what we have now. …even though it could have been handeled FAR better.

[@vanyadolly]

That and like most parents would do this? 🤔 Even non-parent adults would feel the need to put a child's safety before their own. He would have had good odds just by picking any rando off the streets, although most probably would have been smart enough to go to the police.

[@MmeCShadow]

What kills me is that you can find a body in the Butterfly test. In other words, Shelby found a father who literally died trying to save his son and decided to kill the kid anyway. Given that he has to manually reset the glass shards in The Butterfly there's no way he missed the body, either. Maybe he figured a father who REALLY loved his son wouldn't go and die of blood loss, huh? What a wimp, not good enough.

[@danteercolani88]

A good plot twist shouldn’t make you say “I didn’t see that coming!” A good plot twist should make you say “I SHOULD have seen that coming” and while heavy rain is one of my fav games I have to admit the twist is not that good hahaha.

[@HiBuddyyyyyy]

@Tommy VZ I disagree, that one chase scene with the detective guy running through a shop is absolutely amazing.

[@walkingexistentaldread3079]

yeah, you shouldn’t go “wait, what? how?” but rather “oh my god, that actually makes sense.” like bioshock or arkham city.

[@greatest03]

Bullet train is a decent “wow yea that makes sense”

[@brianbommarito3376]

Scott’s motive definitely doesn’t make any logical sense. He seems more disturbed by his father’s rejection than by his brother’s death. Scott is written as both caring and uncaring for his brother John. He is clearly broken by the experience, yet he doesn’t hesitate to murder in the same manner. If I were him, and I had watched my brother die in that way, I would not be able to even stomach the idea of subjecting other people’s children to the same fate, for any reason. If anything, Scott’s motive should not have been an inspiration to become the Origami Killer, it should have been a reason for not writing him as the killer but somebody else instead.

[@thecringefandom8715]

Idk when I played and it was revealed alot of stuff made so much more sense. Like when Scott is the only main character that uses a typewriter and he refused to let the mother take the letter even trying to brush it off as nothing. The younger version of him wheezed as he ran. When he didn't even hesitate to say they need to wipe off fingerprints after seeing the murdered old man on the floor and if you get caught you end up walking past the table with the watch while talking to one of the officers. And the most obvious is that Scott almost drowned just like his brother. Oh and a hint in the beginning was with the cash register guy saying he wished he could look into the eyes of his son's killer (something like that) and Shelby leaned in staring at him.

[@ArcaneEther]

No no, you see the first car accident conked Ethan's brain and gave him the blackouts, then the second one unconked him and cured it. Makes perfect sense. I am kidding, of course.

[@hainguyentri6924]

You caught me off guard. Banger

[@nin_tendo6458]

To be fair if this were The Three Stooges that would totally work.

[@cisrot]

45:30 I was literally just thinking like.. imagine if the game followed Jason instead and his father died in the crash. That would have been a really interesting switch of the narrative and we could have followed up with Jason as an adult riddled with the guilt of him getting his father killed. That would have linked back to the dead bird segment perfectly and would have made the dads words hit so much harder, about how things like that can just happen. It could have continued with Shaun being kidnapped, much like in the actual game. Shaun could be grown up too and he could look strikingly similar to his father, so when Shaun comes up missing Jason feels immense guilt again and tries everything in his power to get his little brother back.

[@LangkeeLongkee]

Okay but what would his reason for going missing be then? Cause the point is the whole origami murdering young boys but having sympathy for them blah blah blah

[@cisrot]

@@LangkeeLongkee HMMMM good point! Id just have not had the murderers victims be restricted to kids tbh. Then it becomes even more of a threat to the adult characters in the game because there’s always that risk that the killer could target them next instead of just children

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@cisrot I mean, there's already that threat since the killer does kill adults too.

[@costalsthechad8992]

@@cisrotcould also have it tie back to scott not being able to save his brother, and trying to find somebody who is able to save their brother unlike him, ie the main motive just switched a bit

[@purplecobra52]

​​@@LangkeeLongkee another cool idea: it still picks up 2 years later, Jason feels responsible for his father's death. The killer targets neglectful fathers instead, giving them each the death that his brother suffered, a twisted version of justice. Jason learns about this pattern and thinks maybe, just maybe, his father was an early victim, because he did work a lot and they didn't see him so often. Kid logic. This causes the two brothers to start their own investigation of the killer. Then about halfway through the story, he learns that no, it was just an accident, no killer necessary. That's where the dead bird quote comes back.

[@Delvirus84]

My favorite part of this game was when I failed the QTE fight between Norman and the detective. For whatever reason I find it funny when Norman unceremoniously falls into shredder and that's the end of him.

[@aquarainbowmonkey]

I remember doing a playthrough where I just wanted Norman to be the only one able to save Shawn. I wanted him to be the hero of the game lol So I let Madison die and got Ethan arrested. But I missed the ONE button that I actually had to hit out of all the QTEs and got the worst possible ending I could have gotten 🤣

[@Delvirus84]

@NinjaSquirtle lol! That's what made it funny to me. I thought maybe I'd have a chance with another qte prompt but no...Norman gets squished

[@Griffin1171-love-you-all]

"And that's the end of my story..."

[@ringzy]

This game was full of small inconsistencies. When you get that ending the lead detective says he's gonna be buried in Washington... How do you bury a shredded body?? Also in the ending we're Madison is being interviewed in the talk show the host says the "origaammi" killer was arrested, which isn't true lol. Just two of the many continuity holes in the game.

[@kaylaHat]

​@@ringzy they just throw the bloody guacamole in the dirt is my guess

[@CrowTR0bot]

My own theory is that Scott still acted shocked during Manfred's murder is that... 1. He didn't think he hit him hard enough to kill him and realized he done goofed. 2. He wanted to put on an act just in case Lauren followed him.

[@teriosshadow17]

Its nice thought, although he acts shocked even before Laura enters the scene where she witnesses Manfred being dead.

[@Tay20]

He also has thoughts to himself sounding surprised. And pretended to himself that the “killer” escaped through the window, opening and closing it before she sees, if I remember right.

[@rainydayjules]

Scott being a playable character completely ruins the idea that he could be the killer. I’ve wondered for a while if the story would work better with the fourth character being Lauren, not Scott. But I guess that’d require QD to get inside the head of more than one female character which… not sure they could do lol edit: I commented this right before you mentioned a game from Lauren’s perspective would work better, WHOOPS

[@alexeiharp7676]

Problem is you're supposed to listen to his inner thoughts so either delete that or make him a secondary character and have one hanging around for each 3 main characters

[@godzillazfriction]

i wonder how that apparently 'rUInS' the idea of (how he could) him being the k-word (gotta appease the higher ups of this platform)

[@slantedglasses7242]

Basically Quantic Dreams' game is like 'you can succeed or fail this QTE, but the story will force itself to arrive at its intended means' lol

[@samalmond2321]

Just to let you know Psychiatrists are not allowed to reveal client information even to the police unless they believe that their client is at risk of reoffending. Even if the client confesses to a past crime, as long as the psychiatrist thinks they are no longer at risk of further criminal activity they cannot report it, only encourage their client to confess to the police themself.

[@FrumiousMing8]

Yeah the police would probably have to get a warrant for his medical records before the psychiatrist could legally reveal any information.

[@bleedingberryjuice]

I remember reading that only like 8% of test players guessed who the killer was. I've never played Heavy Rain but I don't think David Cage is as clever of a writer as what he thinks he is. Detroit was a big step up from this clearly but my main problem is that the androids "becoming human" is never actually explained. In fact we never know if they actually are. I've also been writing for over 20 years, since I was a small kid, and listening to your line of thinking here reminded me of myself. Thanks for making this and keeping me so invested in critiquing a game I've never even played!

[@sushilampa8287]

Robot develop feeling

[@sushilampa8287]

@@Henry_Red what do you mean? That's how they explained it

[@sushilampa8287]

@@Henry_Red oh you're talking about the first part sorry, I was talking about how they said in DBH it was never explained how they "become human", sorry for the confusion hah

[@majinally3527]

@@sushilampa8287 you know how when cara was fighting alice’s dad and it kept showing how she was basically trying to ignore her programming? that’s the becoming human part. breaking out their programming is them becoming human. they’re becoming sentient. basically 17 & 18 from dragon ball. they became “human” after the cell saga .

[@sushilampa8287]

@@majinally3527 yes, exactly what I was saying to op haha I'm glad you understood my Neanderthal terms

[@lividfireye7304]

This video has an aura of comfy 2010's that modern youtubers don't use. Please continue stuff like this and DO NOT increase production quality so I can have niche things I like

[@madeniquevanwyk]

I thought the same! 😂

[@Ransell666]

Shelby is for me like a modern disney's movie twist villain equivalent a completly normal nice person, whom cares about people around into a total sociopath in a second who has no problem in murdering, drowning, burning people alive in cold blood with no remorse simply because the plot needs it

[@krisellegilpin5990]

I wish they dove into his what I think multiple personality, it would have been cool to get more into his psyche

[@UltimateGranis]

I have Complex-PTSD and I have had a dream like Madison's. I use to dream I would wake up for school, get fully ready, even eat something, and then finally wake up. I AGREE with YOU though. Dreams like that are INCREDIBLY RARE, even in medical studies. Most people would not know that those kind of dreams are possible without prior specific knowledge. Even though it's possible, it serves only to alienate the audience. Also, to your point, it added nothing anyways. Thanks for the vid man!

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

"Blake faces no repercussions." Yes, this is just what happens with bad cops.

[@tentacledood5784]

OOF

[@brianbommarito3376]

Blake does get a sort of comeuppance in some of the bad endings. In one ending, Norman dies and Blake steals his ARI glasses, not understanding the vicious cycle of addiction, brain damage and possibly death that he’s starting on. In another ending, Blake kills Ethan at the warehouse in a shootout, but Norman survives and kills Scott, so the true identity of the killer is known. Captain Leighton Perry is forced to resign and Carter Blake is suspended from active duty, pending an investigation that could uncover his frequent acts of police brutality.

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

@@brianbommarito3376 Well yeah, but I was kind of clearly just snidely snarking about acab really there to be fair lol. People like blake are the vast majority of cops unfortunately and with how the organization is, its intent and how it's run that's unavoidable.

[@jimjam7928]

Ok, but the point he's literally making is that "realism" does not equate to good writing. Storytelling should have satisfactory closure. Just saying "all cops are bastards" is not a sufficient, closed arc.

[@godzillazfriction]

​@@jimjam7928so your point (especially in regards to the KZbinr) in summary is that ''i have a biased inconvenience and when that gets trifled with what i determine to be 'gUd wRiTiNg' - then i lose it"... great argument right there.

[@sunchips18]

I can’t believe that I just watched a 3-hour-long video of Heavy Rain in 2022, but here we are. This was really enjoyable, and I’m looking forward to more.

[@onthebrain835]

Thank you!

[@josephmatthews7698]

I've totally had dreams where I woke up and did boring stuff until something awful happened and then woke up only to realize I was still dreaming and then desperately feeling trapped as I tried to wake up.

[@Leghend]

i liked the idea of Scott. playing a serial killer collecting his own evidence as a detective from his victims, he is able to use this as a cover but also see the impact on the familys, as his brother's death impacted him. or something.

[@BlusherShy]

1:37:29 - This scene had me so confused because Madison and Scott never met. I replayed the game mainly to find out if there was a path I hadn't triggered where they meet each other.

[@naruto68744]

What I think would have been, while not necessarily good, but at least a better twist than this, was if Grace, Ethan's ex-wife ended up being the killer. The killing didn't start until after Jason's death. You can go with similar explanation, except she is wanting to find a husband, not a father, but a husband, that will do what hers could not, die in order to save their son. When everyone of them failed, she got more and more frustrated, finally she decided to target Shaun as well, setting Ethan up to be both the main suspect and the one that gets tortured by this. All while if Ethan does fail a second time, he'll either die or go to prison as the origami killer, she'll be the 'grieving mother who couldn't take it anymore' and commits suicide out of guilt.

[@xtremevigilante3525]

Honestly I feel like KZbin is bugging out with recommendations but I'm thankful it is, finally some actual good videos from people that deserve it 👏

[@wuldntuliktonoptb6861]

Yea nothing like hitting a 3 hour retrospective of a ps3 game I played a decade ago from a 138 sub youtuber for real

[@TayTayMakesBeats]

Right? I needed this.

[@cdogthehedgehog6923]

Honestly, it does feel like it has been getting better with recommendations. Like ive found several less than 10k sub channels that have been awesome this month.

[@emirlsanchos6302]

You know, watching that chase sequence with Norman Jayden and the Origami Killer Suspect through the crowded street into the market with the player intentionally failing every QTE sequence, I started chuckling myself. Not simply at the pratfalls Norman gets into after every error, but the fact that no matter how many times he slips up and collides with things or people, he STILL manages to keep pace with the fleeing suspect. So, either the suspect is really out of shape or they get a kick out of humiliating Norman (and who wouldn't due to how hilarious it is).

[@youtube-kit9450]

Since the suspect isn't the killer, it's even more baffling that no matter how much you fail, the outcome pretty much stays the same.

[@NicknineTheEagle]

That video is edited, in the actual game you lose the guy if you fail too many QTE prompts.

[@JojokimVT]

One thing they could’ve done is to include Scott’s model in the cutscene were Ethan and Jason got hit by the car cause he’s not even in that scene in the beginning even tho they show him being present at the end. That could be something players could discover on repeat playthroughs… tho I don’t know why people would do that. Edit: Speaking of Scott, they were lazy with his surname. Yeah, just switch out several letters of his surname instead of the ”She” part

[@alaskaiscold_9296]

A simple change would have already made the twist so much better and more believable. Let the father hesitate before jumping in front of the car. The killer sees that but then goes and doesn’t see the that he ends up jumping. The father could then battle the guilt of acting too late, maybe thats why the child died and he didn’t, because in the end he was too late and couldn’t move it out of the way. It would be a really small change but would make it so much easier to suspend one’s disbelief a little more

[@thatqueenG]

it doesn't matter the year, there's something about discovering and binging a Heavy Rain analysis video that gives me joy!

[@nont18411]

Scott Shelby somehow managed to crawl in a tight space to drop the glasses even though he’s fat af😂

[@Everything-mh4bp]

Lollllll

[@Everything-mh4bp]

Maybe he wasn’t fat back then

[@sarsisixx]

this comment made me laugh so much lmfao

[@oniviper]

I wonder how much dude would lose his mind playing Indigo Prophecy...

[@ReebowAmethyst]

The spoiler warning list for this was a wild ride. As soon as there was a spoiler warning for saw 2, I knew I had to watch this 😂

[@platedlizard]

43:00 just occurred to me they could have reworked this. Don't kill the bird, instead have Jason and Shawn playing with it outside its cage. Someone opens a door or they don't notice a window open. The bird flies outside and the boys, along with their dad, chase it outside. Jason feels bad for letting his brother's pet escape and becomes focused on catching it to the point he doesn't hear his dad or the car. The car hits him. Ethan maybe smacks into the side of the car & gets his head injury there if we keep the blackouts. The bird flies away. Shawn saw it all. The bird can now be used as a totem, perhaps to guide the player to the next clue, or to signify an important scene. It could also be used to symbolically tie Ethan to the killer, the living bird vs the paper origami bird. The real thing vs the fantasy of the thing (serial killers are frequently fantasy-motivated).

[@melware03]

Have I already seen 1383018 videos about heavy rain? Yes. Will I still watch this entire thing? Also yes.

[@AbstractTraitorHero]

Any good suggestions?

[@LangkeeLongkee]

Just started the video, and tbh the two things that stick out to me when I remember Heavy Rain was: 1) THAT plot twist 2) how poorly it treated literally every single female character. Every single one. It was... Bad.

[@Zahvage]

Please fix your voice over audio settings, as it is now it's heavily shifted to the left side only making it quite annoying to listen to while wearing headphones

[@voxxy2184]

Are you black?

[@clevernamehere1]

This is so thorough and well-crafted, I wish I could boost it to everybody because it deserves SO many more views- excellent work!!

[@kokobain]

The real killer of Heavy Rain was the cutting room floor. While there's some elements that should have been left out and some that should have stayed, their elimination butchered the entire main story, making it a monumental task to salvage with your own speculation, headcanons, and what ifs.

[@jadeharley7190]

Feel like they should’ve made Scott the clown in the beginning. That way Jason could’ve been like, a test run that failed?

[@jackalantlers]

i hope you start making more video essays!! i was just checking out your channel and realized this is one of your only ones, which surprised me because you're a natural at it!

[@coolman229]

It would have been so much better to not only have Scott not be playable but also give him ties to each character. Ethan can go to him to help investigate the Origami Killer to clear his name, he could have worked with Norman in the past as a police officer, and be an informant to Madison for her articles. It would give each of them a reason to have a reaction to the reveal.

[@kaifkayesque7875]

3:01:05 im glad that your video has gotten more than the 10 views you thought it would. finally watched the entire thing on and off and it was very much worth it!! what a wonderfully made video, and i hope this vid continues to be even more successful

[@maddysmith7166]

Just wanna note with the psychiatrist, they still maintains their miranda rights in regards to an interrogation and are only allowed to legally break client confidentiality when they have been subpoenaed to appear in court in regards to said client, or if they think the client is a risk of hurting themselves or others in which case they are required under a duty of care to take necessary action to protect people. Amazing video btw, absolutely love the style and hope to see more like this in the future!

[@FreshPokemonHunter]

Looking back at this game I always looked at it through a nostalgic lens so I never thought about all the problems that occurred. I'm so glad I clicked on your video, honestly I had no intentions of watching the whole three hours but after I started I just couldn't stop! You earned yourself a new subscriber and I turned on the notification bell! Looking forward to more videos! BTW I love your glasses frames!

[@DrWolfenstein234]

With cops like Blake I wouldn't take evidence to the police either

[@MelancholyRequiem]

I know this is so silly, but JUST ONCE I would love to see a "Director's Cut" version of a game in which the director is cut and the game is presented how everyone but the director wanted to see it released.

[@threerings7856]

This is really fascinating to me. Because I was a fan of Quantic Dream and David Cage from before Heavy Rain existed. I was a fan of their previous game Indigo Prophecy/Farenheit (which I'd be really interested to see your opinion of...it's been a long time since I played it but it's an interesting precursor to these games and I personally prefer it to Heavy Rain.) So I followed the development of Heavy Rain closely. The game was really hyped up during development. The reason the Madison scene when she goes to the house to investigate the doctor is so well done is because it was the demo/gameplay presentation that was shown to preview and sell the game. The number of different ways the player could handle it and things could go was the whole pitch of the game. It was also stressed how any of the characters could die at any time and the story would just continue without them. Which sounded cool and impressive except in actuality that just sorta ruins the game. (And Ethan and Scott have plot armor anyway.) So the game definitely overpromised and underdelivered. That was the dominant reaction at the time that I remember, that the game was very ambitious and showed a lot of promise, but ended up missing the mark. Obviously there was a lot of cut content and budget restraints, it's important to note I think that this was always an indie game studio, not one with a bunch of money behind it. Also it's a little hard to remember now how cutting edge the graphics of the game were 12 years ago. The focus of a lot of the hype was on the character face models and how they showed emotions and felt "real" unlike most of the games being made at the time. Ultimately I say all this not to defend the game. I ended up pretty soured on David Cage's writing myself, and the man has a real auteur complex. But to provide better context in the history of video games, which is where I think Heavy Rain is notable and why the reviews and ratings are what they are. It's hard to remember just how influential this game ended up being, because there just weren't games like it at the time. The entire concept of a game that was entirely focused on interactive story was basically down to this game and its predecessors. We've gotten so many more games in the decade since then that do this it's hard to remember narrative games were really not a thing back in the day. And when they were they were a very small, underfunded part of the industry. They didn't get fancy graphics and splashy promotion. This is before Telltale Games released The Walking Dead and created a storm of "choice-based" narrative games that everyone eventually got sick of. Think of any well-known and celebrated narrative game, Heavy Rain was first. And ultimately that's this games' legacy. That it hadn't really been done before and it was disappointing, but a bunch of people looked at it and went "hey, I can do better than that." And then they did.

[@monsoonium8511]

I saw this along with other analysis videos and the quality made it feel like something a bigger channel would put out and I'm surprised (at this moment) this video only has 1.8k views. This has a huge amount of quality and I'd love more videos like this.

[@heehee9134]

i know that david cage games have so many issues but they're honestly my guilty pleasure games LMFAOO maybe it's nostalgia but the jankiness in writing/characters/themes/all of the above is kinda what makes them funny to me

[@robinanwaldt]

I honestly don’t see how you could come to the conclusion that Scott killed his mother in the game as is. When we see her, she’s simply laying there and her heart monitor is showing an active heartbeat. It’s even the most prominent sound in that segment. The scene as is only really states that Scott went there to take the picture of him and his brother to destroy it.

[@teriosshadow17]

Well, in deleted scene we are shown Scott suffocating his mother to death with a pillow, but they decided to remove it because they thought it wouldn't make sense for Scott's character which is weird because in one of the endings he is willing to kill Ethan even before saving Shaun, even though his motivation lies on about wanting to see father willing to risk his life to save his son.

[@robinanwaldt]

@@teriosshadow17 I know.. I’ve seen the video😅

[@coolman229]

You see this is what we call Schrodinger's Shelby. If Scott Shelby is not onscreen he can be doing anything anywhere regardless of logic or nothing at all. The second the camera is off of him all bets are off.

[@TieberiusVoidWalker]

Always nice to get more long form video essayists in my recommended. As for the video itself I never played heavy rain but your recap made the story seem pretty interesting and I was wondering how bad the twist had to be to ruin it. I did not expect it to be that bad.

[@sneakyskunk1]

This game had a weird connection to Playstation Home. If you were active on that app around the time Heavy Rain came out, a ton of DVD style extras were available in the theater district. Director's commentary and cut content(including a possible psychic connection between Ethan and the Origami Killer realized through a series of nightmares Ethan has revolving around drowning) were just two of the things I can remember being available to users of the application. Later releases included all of this information, though at the time of its initial release that was the only way to see any of it(in as much as I was able to recall, it has been years now). Considering how much people hated Home, I always thought that was a weird way to drip feed that content to fans of the game. I also managed to get the bleakest possible ending you can get for Heavy Rain because I am bad at QTEs. I looked over the various ending synopses, and I still think I got the ending that makes the most sense to me.

[@yannickgrignon2473]

Potentially unpopular opinion: "It was all a dream" scenes CAN work fine, provided that: A) there's a reason for them to happen (like demonstrating a character's fears, desires, etc), and B) that it feels "off" in such a way that the audience is able to guess that whatever is happening is not actually real before the "reveal". For instance, if the Madison scene opened with her hiding from an intruder, and then running into more and more of them in a warped home until she gets mobbed by hundreds of masked men, I think that could work.

[@baby-sheesh]

watched it all and much respect to you, you really dissected this whole game, I loved this game and played it many times, but I kinda feel dumb now, not noticing all this stuff

[@maitaniyama42]

A good explanation of why Madison was at the motel could be she had just moved into the city and had yet to find an apartment. A second explanation could be that serious renovations or repairs had to be done to her apartment, so she chose to stay at the motel for the work. Also, a better introduction to her being a journalist could have been when she woke up at her apartment and research on the origami killer case on her dining room table; the game could explain that her next story covers that case. This gives the players an immediate explanation of why she's a player character and involved like the other player characters.

[@ryanm.fields3908]

gonna apologize for this in advance since most everyone is being extremely positive in the comments and i think it’s well deserved, but i think you could explore adjusting your camera’s auto-exposure settings or whatever it is that’s causing the lighting to shift every time you move. the only reason i bring it up is because the content, audio quality and editing are so good that i’m afraid something that minor might unjustly turn people away from your vids and (i think) it should be a relatively simple fix. great stuff!

[@mutantfreak48]

the audio quality is absolutely not good, a good chunk of the narration is panned to the left for some reason

[@onlyinsomniac]

Quantic Dream singlehandedly instilled in me a hatred of quicktime events. Basically locked out anyone who was interested in the story but has shite coordination/reflexes.

[@jeremyc3911]

I played Heavy Rain over a decade ago, and since then have seen a plethora of reviews, critiques and analyses. I thought I saw them all. While most of them were very good, a few were excellent, though for the presentation of some of them, I wish the reviewers would have kept down the foul language, sarcasm, and kept the delivery more professional. I didn't think over the years I would see anything new in this space, and certainly nothing of such a high caliber of substance that would prompt me to write a response. I am glad you released your video. I spent most of my planned sleeping hours at night listening to it, not once, but twice, and I have to commend you for producing a video exactly what I was hoping to find over the past decade. Yours was a video that was highly professional in presentation and I applaud you for engaging your faculty of reason, logic, and articulating your findings in such a way that is accessible, understandable, and without the need for shock and especially without the need for foul language or swearing. You review is the gold standard for Heavy Rain reviews, and it is my hope as a new subscriber to see other videos for which you review other games with the same degree of detail, vigor and care. As a person who thoroughly enjoyed the game play the first time around, and found it refreshing to find a different kind of game in Heavy Rain (ie. not your standard first person shooter, quest game, multiplayer game, etc.), I was enthralled with the concept of this game so much so that I must have suspended my critical thinking capacity to analyze the game for both its merits and shortcomings. Yes, the QTE controls were clunky, awkward, and such, but I did like the premise of playing the different characters, and the whole premise of the story, something for which I can relate being a father myself. My initial criticisms back then were more leveled against more minor things, like getting more natural English speakers to voice the kids and some of the characters. It was pretty clear that for some of the voice actors, English was not the first language. But again that was minor. Your presentation of the plot twist and its implications was very compelling. I only noticed a small amount of what you pointed out though after seeing your presentation I was like, "how could I have missed that?" I did notice back then the cognitive dissonance in Scott Shelby's thought patterns before and after. It was weird. I also noticed Madison was ultimately there more for sexual objectification rather than any substantive purpose - that's probably whey they had her front and center on the packaging. Sex sells. And the nude scenes of her and the sex scene between her and Ethan were completely unnecessary and added nothing to the story. Personally if I could have chosen which female to have as one of the controllable characters, I would have picked Lauren. Her role was far more integral to the story than Madison's, and Lauren had a more relevant character to the overall plot. I actually did make the connection with the "Scotty" part, as for some reason I always kept in mind his full name was Scott Shelby right from the outset with his meeting with Lauren. The whole Manfred murder analysis was superb, and that one of many excellent parts of your presentation. I will never look at that scene the same again. I will say that I thought it was strange when I played it how Scott dismissed getting the authorities involved and started wiping down everything. That was my first telltale sign that maybe this guy was not all he was cracked up to be. Your analysis on Scott's rationale with Ethan sacrificing himself for son was excellent. I totally missed that as well. I loved your presentation, the way you articulated your points, and I can tell you are a superb writer, in both your thought articulation and your sharing of your thoughts in a systematic and sequential way. It is very refreshing to see intelligent, cogent analysis and the six hours watching your analysis and review were well spent. I may watch / listen to it again this evening. Thank you, from Canada.

[@alykdz]

First of all, this video is really excellent. I did watch all three hours and your skill in writing is evident right from the beginning. Amazing work!! But second, I came here to say this video was also extremely cathartic. I just played Heavy Rain for the first time, and I had zero knowledge of it beforehand. So you can imagine my surprise when I dragged myself all the way through this mess only to google it and see all the positive reviews and lack of criticism on what I viewed as a hilariously painful experience lmao. I desperately needed someone else to roast the hell out of it and you absolutely delivered, so thank you for that 🙏

[@jimjam7928]

2:24:10 They honestly could have done something with that. Like, even something as basic as Shelby has a split personality and suffers blackouts just like Ethan. When we play as him, he's the good guy detective. When he's the Origami Killer, it's the vengeful side that saw his brother die. It could even be a personification of his brother himself. Would have worked as a parallel with Ethan thinking that he becomes the Origami Killer when he blacks out, when it's actually Shelby who does.

[@Kuraiomo]

I think it would make more sense to make Jason die in a way that is simmilar to how origami killer kils his victims. That way it could make players more uncertain if Ethan really is the killer or not. It would make even more sense if he had brain problems before Jasons death, and it would be shown as simple neglect, but at the same time make you wonder if he actually caused his son's death and if maybe he is doing the same to his second child. Or if Jason died in the similar way to how origami killer kills, at least it would make sense that heavy rain causes some sort of PTSD for Ethan, and explain why he sometimes loses conciousnes. It would work as some kind of cope mechanism.

[@Seldarius]

I wonder why the whole Jason sequence was necessary for the story at all. Why not just have Ethan be divorced? Or a widower who struggles to deal with his son all by himself? The entire sequence just spells: this is a saaaad story full of emooootion. If you cut it, nothing changes.

[@FrumiousMing8]

Heavy Rain could be described as "A lot of unfired Checkov's guns."

[@ClarkKentai]

I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the Half-Life games. They're well-suited to short bursts of play thanks to the chapter structure, but tell their story a little differently.

[@raccoonja5905]

I think a twist like this could work, if the writers were clever about it. To make it work they would have to make sure the player is never with the killer, when they kill, while still not beeing too obvious with it. There would also have to be a reason for the killer to act like they do, even when it is a different one from what the player think it is. For example: The killer pets a dog on the street, the player thinks this is because he likes dogs, but they just do it to get some dog hair to plant on a crime scene to make the police think the killer is a dog owner. The writers would have to go though every possible thing the killer can do and look at it in therms of what the player thinks is going on and in what the killer is acually doing. This is alot of work, but the story is the main feature in these kind of games and this is the twist they chose to do.

[@RhienYT.]

Heavy Rain is a game I actually keep coming back and watching stuff about in 2022. And this video is honestly the best I’ve watched this year. I like long videos so this was great, and it pulled me in from the intro. Amazing video!

[@almightyrasen]

16:10 you made that whole scene funnier than it was 😭😂

[@woolfiegamer2558]

I actually like this game and most David Cage games in general, but I still clicked on this and I'm happy that youtube recommended me this video because it was really well made! You deserve more subscribers for sure, espcially if you continue making content such as this!

[@IliyaKunin]

Great video, man. I love well-written video game essays! I will be looking forward to more.

[@Rathdrgnknight]

Honestly I want to see you take on The Indigo Prophecy.

[@sandraswan9008]

Omg same

[@_Kuma_]

Sick, i love video essays. I like HR but I felt like the story just fell off at some point so they threw in random “plot twists”… What ever happened with the origami? Why was that a thing? I can’t remember if it was ever connected to anything 🤔 like, why did the killer do that?

[@Fuzzysea693]

I think the mom used to make origami with her sons? I can’t remember clearly though

[@ebbonyreynolds6502]

This is such a good video !! Don’t know why it doesn’t have more views already

[@onthebrain835]

Thank you!

[@Judge-1964]

‘You spend six months making a three-hour video that’ll probably get ten views.’ I’ll be honest, I’m close to my tenth watch of this breakdown. It’s that good. You calmly lay out all the holes in the story without driving into a rage (I’ve watched other breakdowns that…didn’t accomplish that), you present alternatives that make perfect sense and would have enhanced the story so much more, and you never criticize anyone who like this game. Your analysis actually makes me want to play the game to see just how bad the twist is. I’ll probably watch this analysis again too. If you were to spend another six months writing a similar breakdown to Beyond: Two Souls (how they presented the attempted suicide bit alone makes me infuriated at the game - I would not be good at a breakdown because I would literally break down) or really any other Quantic Dream game - though I did really like Detroit - I would absolutely be down for that!

[@quasimojo7252]

The stupid twist in Detroit: Become Human makes zero sense and ruins the whole story as well.

[@LangkeeLongkee]

Which twist? The Kara storyline one?

[@pollyc.1957]

!!--SPOILERS--!! Seriously, if you read any further, that's on you, buddy. I fully agree. Even if you didn't discover the magazine upstairs, and you get blindsided by the not-too-surprising twist, it undoes LITERALLY...EVERYTHING. Every sacrifice made on her behalf, every moment wasted ensuring her supply of food and warmth, and it EVEN destroys the human/robot relationship that's central to the story. Not only demonstrating that she can't REALLY love a child, like a mother, in a human way, but that the moment she finds out what the child IS, she questions abandoning her, anyway. Knowing that she is just like THEM, a machine that is affected by this desire for free will and autonomy...somehow makes her want to abandon them entirely?? Because she does indeed view robots as less real and essential than humans? HUH??? ...That... and the most BEAUTIFUL artistic choice in the entire game being utterly squashed by neckbeards, who didn't want to "free" their gorgeous Chloe screensaver...who complained until they added the ability to replace her with a NON-sentient Chloe...shows the whole thing was lost on creepy losers who didn't want to free her in the first place, without first imprisoning her identical in their place. The vast majority of the audience would have LITERALLY been the antagonists of the story ... and they should have been forced to live with that knowledge and consequence, and have it smashed in their face. ...But they catered to the crybabies instead. Don't even get me STARTED on the "love" story.

[@jaren12072]

I don't think Heavy Rain is masterpiece, but I also don't think it's bad writing either. I don't see Scott acting the way he does as as big of a problem as you do, Scott's a serial killer, the man is crazy he's not going to be rational. I don't see Scott being a serial killer and also doing kind things like caring for a baby, or stopping that woman from killing herself as a problem because Scott is someone who does something a normal person wouldn't do. Expecting Scott to do the most reasonable thing like letting a liability like Lauren die in the car isn't something that I think should be done when analyzing a character like Scott. This was amazing video that very I much enjoyed, I just disagree with the major issue you have with Scott's character. I would watch a video like this one on the other David Cage games should you make them. I may not agree with everything you had to say about Heavy Rain, but I'm still gonna sub because I really want to see what you do in the future. I wish you luck in your future endeavors and hope you have a nice day.

[@Griffin1171-love-you-all]

You should check out Omikron: The Nomad Soul...

[@HanaBakemono]

Brilliant video. If you want, I suggest looking up the David Cage/Quantum Dream BINGO card. Look at Beyond Two Souls, Detroit, and the rest of the games they’ve made. You’ll see a pattern.

[@SymphoniaFly]

As someone who thinks most of David Cage's work is pretty terribly written, this was cathartic to sit through. 😭 On a side note, I think the twist in Detroit Become Human is almost just as bad in hindsight.

[@sillylieu]

What? There is no twist in detroit, you have complete control of the protagonist and antagonist.

[@SymphoniaFly]

@@sillylieu The twist I'm talking about is Alice actually being an android. Should have clarified.

[@sillylieu]

​@@SymphoniaFly Well to be fair that's a pretty minor one in the grand scheme of the game, and still it's foreshadowed quite a bit

[@SymphoniaFly]

@@sillylieu Yeah it's minor, but it's a good little example of the terrible writing. And it being foreshadowed doesn't automatically make it a good twist. And, for me, it damages the relationship they've built between Alice and Kara at that point. So much for androids being able to coexist with humans via future generations. Turns out Alice was an android all along!

[@CMGThePerson]

​@@sillylieuYeah, but Kara's story works better without it

[@becuaseimbored3481]

I think the bird scene could have worked if maybe Jason was mourning the bird and The Dad decides to take him to the mall to cheer him up leading to the whole mall scene. I feel like would have 1. Cut down on the early game fat and streamlined the story 2. Gave the bird scene more of a purpose 3. It would have been more intriguing if he was comforting Jason about death, since he will be in the same emotional place as Jason is rn ; just to a greater extent.

[@Fortexx200x]

If you think Ethan just got up after the accident that killed his son then it kinda loses me for the rest of your points on why Heavy Rain was a bad game. He was in a coma, he has black outs and if I'm not wrong the game picks up again 2 years after Jason died because Shawn is now the same age as Jason if I'm remembering correctly. A child is much more fragile than an adult which is how a 10 year old boy getting hit by a car can die and how a 30 year old man getting hit by a car can survive. As for the Sixth Sense being obvious that Bruce Willis was dead because he took one bullet to the gut is a big stretch as well. Lots of people have been shot in life and lived on after the incident. His character was rich or at least well off and they lived in the middle of a city so paramedics should have been able to get to him quickly so not sure why that revelation was so obvious to you honestly.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

He mentions the coma right off the bat, and children aren't that fragile that getting hit with a car would kill them while an adult makes a full recovery. He literally explains why the twist was obvious to him as a kid, did you skimm around that part

[@nomad6633]

love watching these while playing tarkov, I enjoyed your points and the breakdown.

[@OhLadyMeg]

fantastic retrospective, you got a new sub. Hope to see more content like this

[@FlyingKipperEh]

Heavy Rain had such a good atmosphere and it could have been something really special... sadly there was David Cage's name slap to it

[@ANoonDayDemon]

You covered this REALLY well, honestly. I remember playing this game when it first came out and just being so...deeply disappointed by the ending. Genuinely angry that I felt like I had just been lied to so much, especially when Shelby's story elements were my favorite parts.

[@Xaldychan]

great video about a game that's very much a guilty pleasure of mine ^^; extending bc I cbf'd to censor the Origami Killer's identity (the game is almost 15 years old) my only comment is that technically we do know why Scott goes after Gordi - it's because Scott is a very idealogically motivated killer, and Gordi actually did kill a kid, but him and his father covered it up to look like an Origami killing. So Scott is A) pissed that Gordi diluted his "goals" by imitating him without actually testing the kid's father and also probably B) willing to try and set him up as a fall guy. IIRC it's one of the conversation options that comes up when you're talking to Charles Kramer after the shootout. Still dumb? absolutely. but there is a reason.

[@meimei8718]

Thank you for the video. I agree with your observations about the inconsistencies in the plot. I only played the game once and didn’t have any motivation to play it again because it was not only tedious but the plot holes were so obvious.

[@paulspalace2electricboogal900]

To start. Ethan doesn’t come out unscathed. He’s in a coma for an extended period of time so that is completely false. Another thing is that Jason could easily die from the blunt trauma of his head smashing into the asphalt like that.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

He mentions the coma, and Ethan would still die from taking most of the impact.

[@itsyaboyj0j0]

David Cage's writing is so clumsly and careless when you look at it objectively. Don't hate the guy, but he never learned how to properly write. I have a feeling he failed to get an audience anywhere else because of this and thought that his pseudointellectualism and puddle shallow stories would be base breaking in the gaming industry. A industry that as far as I know, David Cage seems to think lacks real "stories". It's really sad to see that there's actually so many people who speak so highly of these games and seemingly confirm David Cage's presumptions about video game stories. Even more mind blowing is the fact that it being a videogame doesn't actually do anything for the story? It's essentially the next step of DVD menus. You would assume that he wanted to take advantaged of the videogame format to tell stories that are complimented by that format... but instead, it being a videogame feels like an obstacle to the stories he tries to tell. I really can't imagine a more boring thing than playing a videogame that doesn't want to be played and consuming a story that thinks it's so above your head when it actually is ridiculously bad.

[@99Bobson]

The algorithm spoketh, and I watcheth

[@MrAjking808]

Cringeth

[@pinkpugilist]

I haven't finished the video, but you get a like for making me laugh at the random FFIV boss music.

[@nin_tendo6458]

What True Detective twist are you talking about at the end? Good video man, brutal to see you haven't done anything like this since.

[@thebrickmeister56]

Never heard of this game, but I watched this whole video. Great job putting this together! Great video all around. Certainly peaked my interest!

[@meowsielee]

this video made me realize that so much of detroit become human was david cage improving upon elements of heavy rain especially the relationship between hank and conner

[@pollyc.1957]

I completely disagree about the ending. Ethan jumping could have been REFLEXIVE. It's entirely different to stare at a bottle of poison and know this is your one and only chance to save someone. Just like being presented with a room full of rusted weapons and being told to cut off a finger would make you hesitate and question if you can do it. Or if you could take a life; or potentially several when you're driving erratically down the freeway in the wrong direction. It's not just a matter of instant snap decision; it's an utter, internal battle between fight or flight. He wanted to ensure it wasn't a fluke, because deep down, he still believed Ethan had a breaking point and tried to find it, and when he couldn't, he wanted to punish Ethan, because he could never punish his own father for his failings.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Wouldn’t really say jumping infornt of a car is that much of a reflect. I doubt Ethan would do that for anyone who wasn't someone he loved.

[@Broeckchen]

Argh okay the bits about Scott annoy me... Why did Scott initially let Lauren come along? Because her insistance shows him she will investigate and might dig up the stuff he's trying to bury in the process. If she's by his side, he can keep an eye on what info she gets. Why does Scott save Lauren then? Because it's heavily implied that he falls in love with her. That is - if he saves her at all. Remember for that too that Lauren represents everything he appreciates in a parent by being willing to sell her own body for her child. But my least favorite part is "those are not actions a serial killer takes" uhm YES THEY ARE. Tons of serial killers had and maintained families and friendships, and their families often claim to have been treated very well by those murderers. Even psychopaths and sociopaths develop attachments to people and can develop moralities, even if their frameworks may differ from ours. This should be well known by now. I think Fish even ate the children he killed, and his own kids only ever knew him as a loving dad.

[@Fuzzysea693]

The worst part is Kramer *can* live, I saw a play through where he did! He just says something like, “I’m sorry, thank you for saving my life.” And Shelby just leaves. Lol

[@the_primal_instinct]

I don't like the game's writing, but to play Devil's, advocate, Ethan completes all the trials because he thinks he's testing himself. He cannot cheat. *He* would have known.

[@christianoutlaw]

The real twist: Madison's scene with Paco. Pithy snark aside, there are so many problems with this game. Not the least of which is replay value. It strikes me as a game that's something you might rent for a casual weekend, return Saturday night while grabbing dinner having gotten it finished, and just filing it away with a shrug. I've only watched it here on KZbin as a play-through (some of the entertainment value enhanced by the player) and its definitely not one I'd buy myself knowing what I know. I agree fully with your assessment of how to improve Madison's arc considerably by making the dream/flashback be about being attacked as a journalist. One step further, adding to the idea that it's not abnormal for her to wake up in the middle of the night. Instead have her wake up in the middle of the day, slumped over against her desk at her office. There's something that shows insomnia way more effectively.

[@user-ml1by8bt5k]

I was ready to ignore all the flaws, including Ethan's blackouts because of the killer mystery. When it got to the reveal for a couple of seconds I was like woah! And then it started sinking in fast, that this was the dumbest and most nonsensical twist ever because Scott couldn't possibly have done it because we were playing as that character and he just obviously wasn't the killer...there are so many ways I can think of that this twist could have worked if Scott was a playable character, but they just chose to simply ignore the fact that it doesn't make sense

[@TheotherPoolboy]

You should cover mass effect 3. I will listen for hours to someone complain about that ending.

[@thesardonicpig3835]

Excellent analysis. I remember during my first experience of the game, the "twist" didn't even shock me, it just disappointed me. Shelby was the only one in whom I was invested as a character, the only one with charisma and a genuine, likeable personality. When the game then decided to magically transform him into an irredeemable child killer, it felt less like a dramatic reveal and more like spite on behalf of the developers.

[@thebilliespace]

Imagine how cool it would've been if you did know you were playing as the killer! Maybe at first you don't even see an option to interfere or to save someone, then suddenly you have the chance to go into a backroom and only one option appears: Kill this person. Now you know you're the killer and you get to decide whether to help the character or to contribute to their demise.