Unfolding 'Heavy Rain': A Narrative Analysis

[@weirdguy1495]

Man, David Cage really needs to make an exclusively detective-based story, considering how both Norman and Connor are the best parts of their respective games.

[@nont18411]

But he won’t have a shower scene

[@saucefreakystyle]

I really don't think we need anything more from him, he's a fucking freak

[@GMP1isReal]

But then he would ruin those stories through padding, and we wouldn't have a lesser story alongside it to make the detective story look better by comparison.

[@mediadetective6104]

The mystery will have a really really dumb reveal tho

[@Miranda17137]

@@nont18411 hank had a 10/10 shower scene in dbh

[@haziqtheunique]

Madison: "I know both of your kids died in terrible ways... sO lEt GeT sTaRtEd AnD mAkE aNoThEr One!"

[@creamygoodness3828]

Preferably right on Shauns grave. Because the thought of your son drowning really turns me on lol. Press Triangle To Refuse - Press X To Accept. Obviously pressing X is the way to go. Since cemeteries serve as great potency enhancers. You know, since all the stiffness going around in this place makes a man last much longer lol.

[@nont18411]

Don’t you know that thinking about his son’s death could get a man rock hard

[@iam878]

@@nont18411 i can't even

[@jeffreymoses7131]

@@nont18411 oh?

[@Takejiro24]

@@nont18411 Bruh ☠

[@PumpkinFox]

"God damn Reporters." "God damn Asthma." "God damn Rain." "God damn Insomnia."

[@voiceacticon667]

😲 wow! I never noticed that.

[@smugalice6206]

“God damn Jay-son!”

[@porcupinester]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think Lauren should have been the playable female character instead of Madison. She has more direct ties to the main story, has better character interactions with Scott than Madison does with Ethan and her character strikes a better balance of being delicate and strong.

[@Danariya1]

Yes and if she was a playable character INSTEAD of Scott the plot twist would've actually worked, since that way you never would've heard Scott's thoughts and could have believeble "blind spots" where Scott could've done something messed up behind the scenes without the player knowing because we don't have control over him, instead of Scott killing a man at the time we play as him and the player not knowing about it until the reveal and Shelby always having normal person thoughts instead of thoughts of a serial killer who's covering up evidence

[@generationclash5004]

@@Danariya1 Both of these would have made Heavy Rain an actual good game.

[@egrumblybus7792]

Especially because in an ending she kills Scott, as she should

[@youtube-kit9450]

How's this unpopular. Scott wouldn't have to actively sabotage himself. When she listens to the music in the store, she can get lost in thoughts, and take minutes, indicated by a grandfather clock in the background. The game doesn't lie to us. Put Madison's bits into her and remove her and a huge chunk of "ugh" story is removed. Lauren being the third (and final) playable character would've done soo much.

[@falks941]

Excellent opinion, I think. Would have made so much more sense.

[@SuperNeos2]

Hidden within this game is the makings of a really great and amazing story and that's the saddest part of this whole ordeal

[@seiyalover1]

It feels as if this is the first draft instead of a finished story.

[@gianni50725]

That's what makes David Cage games sad. There's a REALLY good premise but then it kinda ends up coming out... decent, or meh. Serial killer giving deadly trials with a believable motivation? Sign me up, I am a sucker for that kind of thing and not many games do it. But then it fails in so many areas. It's really too bad. Good thing I like tense QTEs and the adrenaline they give otherwise I wouldn't like it as much.

[@joaoassumpcao3347]

Cage is the king of good premises bad execution. Detroit's premise was also pretty good, even using androids as a metaphor for modern slavery. But the execution... yikes.

[@DirectorHMAN]

It was great and amazing so I don't understand what you are saying.

[@civilwarfare101]

The thing is a good version of Heavy Rain exists, it's called Prisoners

[@MistahJay7]

Wait wtf Madison leaves Paco tied up in the chair by himself in the office. literally a not even minute later She leaves as Norman comes in to go to Pacos office and all the sudden Paco is free talking with Shelby? WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK LOL I just noticed this

[@CDR_Droid]

I find the part when Scott goes in shooting extremely funny because he literally never reloads.

[@rebelrouzer5318]

Dude turns into fat Charles Bronson

[@Mothlocks]

The best part of heavy rain will always be purposefully failing all the QTEs in the chase scene through the market

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

chickens: "bawk bawkbawk bwawk bawk" Norman: "unnngh"

[@mmaScholar99]

Your rant on shelby shooting the guys in the mansion got me in stitches bro. It was so hilarious 😂

[@weirdguy1495]

Man, Scott just kept on going, I thought it was just an edit at first.

[@X-SPONGED]

Hot Take, David Cage has GREAT Ideas He just has bad ways of executing it and an apparent unwillingness to seek help for it. When the staff tries to help, he shuts them up

[@scorpion6328]

That’s probably the most frustrating thing about David Cage games. There are good ideas here and there that have the POTENTIAL to make this an amazing story. But sadly, the flaws in David Cage’s writing tend to get the better of him.

[@abigailfoster9732]

Agreed. as some wise guy said: there's never bad ideas, only bad ways of executing it.

[@paperclip6377]

​@@abigailfoster9732thats not wise at all.

[@abigailfoster9732]

@@paperclip6377 i mean there are…sssoome exceptions.

[@andrescaiced2993]

Detroit Become Human was amazing😅

[@Beetrootrot]

The fact that you’re in Shelby’s head throughout the game, and he’s sincerely solving the origami killer, should’ve been enough for cage to realise how dumb this story is.

[@kbk239]

He is never trying to find who the origami killer is. Tell me one moment in the game where he tries to find the Origami killer.

[@atm6502]

@@kbk239well idk but he is supposedly going round collecting evidence from the parents but he really goes out of his way to accuse the rich guy and his son when he could’ve just killed lauren and continued on hiding his secrets

[@ethanhunter10]

​@@kbk239 after the type writer guy dies, Shelby's internal monologue has him being shocked saying something along the lines of "did the origami killer do this?"

[@AHappyBlackGuy]

@@ethanhunter10Shelby’s so good at lying that he’s able to lie to himself 😂

[@yurinoworry]

@@kbk239David… it’s okay. Shhhh

[@truthseeker7754]

I think the reason i forgive heavy rains many shortcomings is because I love the concept of this game so much I ignore what the game actually is.

[@sarahalbright5307]

The story may be poorly put together and there’s a lot of old “it’s a video game so here’s some convenient plot devices” But even then the story itself is very captivating and the structure of games by quantum dreams are so impressive

[@Grandmaster_Dragonborn]

@@sarahalbright5307 I don’t think the game is poorly put together at all. This video is good but is very open to criticism itself.

[@KN-hg2nv]

​@@Grandmaster_Dragonborn Like what?

[@Grandmaster_Dragonborn]

@@KN-hg2nv That Maddison is a poor character - I don’t see how; she’s well fleshed out, she grows over the story & has a sizeable impact on the plot. The game wouldn’t be nearly as good without her.

[@joshlegacy1101]

​@@Grandmaster_Dragonborn Does Madison experience character development? Help me see it.

[@Spectral352]

2:06:58 Every sensible movie director handles a suicide by gun scene by cutting away right before the shot. David Cage just uses an "action scene bullet" (which have x100 the impact of a realistic bullet) to yeet the main character out of the picture. A true auteur.

[@KenGee97]

Doesn't have to cut away. Makes it more impactful if we see it. Like in full metal jacket

[@tunasandwich8049]

David Cage is like an on the rails dungeon master. Sure your story actually seems interesting and I like the plot, but holy moly let me make a choice without you gatekeeping me

[@takke9830]

One of my biggest gripes with his narratives are honestly how he writes the women in his games. Like every single one that is a main character, be it Madison, Kara or Jodie are all short haired deer in the headlights essentially acting in defense supposed to come off as powerful but weirdly just comes off as powerless instead cause he is so obsessed with writing women like a monolyth for seemingly his own gratification as well. It‘s honestly smelling of strong r/menwritingwomen there and it does upset me as someone who is a woman. Like, male writers that write women are just really weird to me. Like, how can you lose your own character writing skills whenever it comes to the opposite gender? It‘s almost like for these male writers their brain breaks whenever they have to write women. As if they can‘t grasp the concept that women are human beings too with diverse personalities, traits, aesthetic preferences and aspirations. But no! David‘s women all have to be the same character. A submissive short haired little damsel that is always on edge because all the big bad wolfs are chasing her as she hwlplessly tumbles around trying to not get hunted down. It feels incredibly condecending tbh and makes me cringe nearly every time. If you can‘t keep your hands off your pants when you write the female characters for your narratives, you shouldn‘t be a writer in the first place honestly cause that is amateur behavior at best, and just borderline pathetic at worst.

[@goki586]

I bet when ever he writes women he does like a "trait list" 'n the first thing he writes down is "1. she's a woman" and not just... write a character first and later on decide the gender

[@walkingexistentaldread3079]

i cannot believe that heavy rain got as much praise as it did considering the character madison. she only exists to look pretty, comfort woe-is-me ethan, and be in danger.

[@SeviathTheHumanDrago]

See but that's what happens when you cry victim too much. You get treated as children with little to no agency in making your own decisions.

[@walkingexistentaldread3079]

@@SeviathTheHumanDrago lmao okay buddy, go suck on Andrew Tate some more.

[@rpspotify4841]

@@SeviathTheHumanDrago ... what?

[@ultimaT]

I think Super Shelby's scene in the mansion was amazing. The guy could probably take out the entire country with a handgun.

[@dutchmvp2608]

ultimaT can you reply to me if it's allowed to give you spoilere about Heavy Rain because i need to tell you something :P

[@PumpkinFox]

@Cohen 2020 Actually it was 17, I believe.

[@mmaScholar99]

Something that pisses me off though, (SPOILERS) If madison fights shelby at the end, shelby all of a sudden becomes bad at shooting.

[@nicoleg6284]

@@mmaScholar99 that's impossible you saw how he no scoped with just a handgun merely hrs before their encounter!!!🥺

[@mmaScholar99]

@@nicoleg6284 exactly lmao, that's the problem. When he becomes the villain, he all of a sudden becomes bad at shooting

[@Flak_Jacket]

We need to see Norman in an other game

[@megarat1777]

Fr im the biggest norman simp like nooo babygirl haha come back in a better game noo

[@luthienosbourne]

The story would make much more sense If Madison was the killer.

[@thatqueenG]

that's what I was thinking! Madison could be a better developed, well-fleshed out character if she was the killer instead of Scott (maybe Scott's character is wiped out lol) and the reveal would be so much more heart-breaking when you contextualise her relationship with Ethan and could really shock the police force and the public as barely anyone would suspect a woman to be responsible for the murders

[@abigailfoster9732]

@@thatqueenG I love this! but i say keep scott and make the whole thing with his twin brother's death known because i feel as though it would give him some sympathetic ties to our what if killer. And for Madison i've been thinking of her motive for killing (cuz ofc she can't kill for the hell of it) and as a rough draft, maybe she was in a relationship and had a son with some abusive asshat who didn't give a shit or even save their son who drowned. (Again, a rough draft so forgive me)

[@haydenrhead7692]

@@abigailfoster9732maybe her boyfriend or husband drowns her son while drunk. So she drowns him.

[@liambraithewaite6415]

Some things that could be added to this analysis: 1. It made no sense for Shelby to wear the gold police watch when he killed Paco and fought Jayden, he never wore it at any other point of the game. 2. In regards to your point about Madison knowing the address of Ethan's trials. The second time she nurses him, she has three hours in which to look through the box, which would explain how she knew the Marble Street address. But then again, it's still far-fetched because she'd have had to unwrap and re-wrap each origami figure, and she would not know which trial he was up to 3. Your point about the doc answering the door I disagree with. If he continued drilling with someone at the door, Madison's scream of pain would bring unwanted attention and possibly authorities thinking a domestic was happening. I hate this sequence though because once again, it was plot convenience. Yes, I totally have people knocking on my door trying to sell me bibles... 4. Another minor plothole is dependent on whether Ethan does not kiss, has sex but then rejects Madison, or enters a relationship with her. If Ethan does not sleep with Madison but it ends up being him and Madison who show up at the warehouse, he will say to her 'what are you doing here, looking for another story?' This is flawed as Ethan does not find out about Madison's journalism unless he does sleep with her. Felt a bit cheated with that attitude as well considering she nursed him twice, helped him escape police twice and (in my playthrough) gave him the address to Shaun because Ethan failed the trials. Of course I killed her off and then in the ending cutscene Ethan is mourning her grave. Like dude, do you hate her or not for trying to kiss you? 5. If Ethan dies and Madison and Scott are alive, they will both be in the background at his grave. Like, did we forget about the fact that Scott tried to kill Madison in his apartment? They would so be able to recognise each other 6. I also think it sucks that Ethan will always die if he goes to the warehouse alone. The police attendance should have been determined based on Norman's attendance since there was that close up of Carter (Carter decides to see where Norman is going and upon seeing the taxi calls reinforcements). Or even better, the plot should have been reworked so that Madison would have the option of calling the cops instead of Norman at the end of Killers Place. 7. In one of the endings, I found that even if Madison survived, the news broadcast says the identity of the origami killer is unknown. This was despite me getting the ending where Madison did her book signings and clearly found out who the killer was 8. The overuse of background knowledge and unseen events. For instance, Madison being the sneaky journalist taking photos and spying on Ethan. And also having to assume Madison finds out through journalism resources what happened to John Sheppard and who Ann Sheppard is and where to find her, as well as Scott's address. 9. The blatent inconsistency with Scott being the origami killer. Some of the thoughts Scott has is inconsistent with what the origami killer would be thinking. Such as reminiscing on the shame about Manfred dying when they were catching up on old times. I get they did not want to spoil the killer's ID but I think silence was definitely the better way to go for coherency. 10. Given the fact that Norman discovers Madison's fingerprints in Fish Tank, there should have been a scene where Norman contacts Madison sometime before Killers Place. That was, it would have made more sense that she knows how to contact Norman at the end of Killers Place. 11. If Ethan is in jail and Shaun dies, the news report says that Shaun was found on a wasteland. Wouldn't that prove Ethan wasn't the killer since the evidence would show Shaun drowned and was moved?

[@shingshongshamalama]

Scott repeatedly lies to himself inside his own head purely to obfuscate his identity to the player, thereby shattering the fourth wall and destroying any sense of suspension of disbelief.

[@clashmanthethird]

Jesus Christ, that Shelby Handgun Massacre looks like I'm watching someone play virtua cop from third person

[@Skirakzalus]

I didn't enjoy the identity of the killer too much in this, though the whole subplot about him hunting a copycat went over my head the first time and made me question why he'd put so much effort into that after the reveal. The aspect of him trying to get leftover evidence is rather clever. Recently watched a playthrough and especially when we get inside his head and hear his thoughts it doesn't add up. Same for how long he keeps up the investigation alongside his partner. Must have been really confirdent in having covered his tracks, but really some choices conflict with the character motivation when you know what's up. Didn't mind the whole partner thing in itself though.

[@CLY994]

i never notice the female character is named Madison PAIGE, like Ellen Page. Before Beyond Two Souls!!. God he is obssesed with her.

[@Mobysimo]

Beyond obsessed... Like, Jesus it's to a point of being scary

[@Fran-zx5xy]

It's probably a coincidence

[@SHODAN-TriOptimum]

What kind of reasoning is that? Like you can give David cage shit as much as you like but this is just stupid.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

It's pretty simple reasoning attack.

[@euph0ric0ne72]

Excuse me ma'am sir shim they xi xer bunnyself, that is ELLIOT PAGE! Blegh. /S

[@anthonyleach7608]

I lost it when he called Scott fat John Wick

[@Greggers1516]

the typewriter thing struck me too, as soon as it was brought up by the letter, I was like bro you got a type writer

[@PR0MAN01]

Oh no, I made ze bad game.

[@FutBoy281]

Making ze bad game is a failure of ze game designer

[@rsfilmdiscussionchannel4168]

Ethan's story 6:11-29:32 Norman's story: 29:33-49:47 Scott's story: 49:48-1:14:20 Madison's story: 1:14:22-1:37:00 Final Story: 1:37:40-1:49:00 Final Story Alternatives: 1:49:01-2:09:17 Conclusion: 2:09:17

[@SalBadman]

Real one

[@rsfilmdiscussionchannel4168]

@@SalBadman Thank you. Time stamps are integral in long vids like this

[@mr.eeggbert1340]

@@rsfilmdiscussionchannel4168 they're in the description?

[@rsfilmdiscussionchannel4168]

@@mr.eeggbert1340 don’t remember them being there back when I made this post

[@mr.eeggbert1340]

@@rsfilmdiscussionchannel4168 they were there

[@Griffin1171-love-you-all]

Do you plan on gazing upon the eldritch abomination that is Omikron?

[@VaSoapman]

For his own health and saftey I hope not. For my entertainment I would greatly enjoy such depraved manic content.

[@NavigatorBR]

Did you watch the Super Best Friends play Omikron? (If you haven't give it a watch, they've actually done all the David Cage games, 0:45 is actually them during their second LP of Heavy Rain. They have A LOT to say about the games and David Cage.) Having watched their LP, I don't know how anyone could do something like this with that game due to the degree that the game is unplayable. Even one play through is nearly impossible due to a mixture of design problems and game breaking bugs. If he does it, I wish him luck and look forward to it.

[@Griffin1171-love-you-all]

"Did you watch the Super Best Friends play Omikron?" Who do you think made this? kzbin.info/www/bejne/o6fNgWh4iMeBfc0

[@NavigatorBR]

*Rubs face, looks around embarrassed...* Well, I made the bad comment... I apologize for my comment. And you did a good job on that compilation... I didn't remember your username.

[@LHudson]

Hey, I like analyzing games. Not booking my own death sentence while possessing some guy's body and fuck their wife!

[@Cotygeek]

Cage is only capable of writing in broad cliches. I think the game would have been stronger by focusing solely on Jayden.

[@youtube-kit9450]

Cage is bad at everything except marketing himself. He claims his games are about the characters, but he cannot write complex, deep, interesting characters. He claims his games are about story, but he cannot write a coherent, good story. He claims his games are about choices, but he constantly railroads you and takes away choice because he wants you to play his game and story. He claims he wants to make games more "mature", but all he does is infuse them with sex(ual assault), violence and needless, pointless "shock moments" like an edgy teenager. His scripts are so bad any film studio would laugh him out of their office, so he makes a game. He's bad at directing a game, so he makes a "cinematic game" so he doesn't actually have to put effort into making gameplay or anything that makes games good. He's a witless provocateur. A talentless hack. A pandering grifter. An egotistical "auteur".

[@liambraithewaite6415]

I reckon Heavy Rain is a decent game, but I agree with the aspect that David Cage doesn't ask questions about his own script and wants the player to play his way. Upon replaying it, there are things about each character I reckon could have been changed to make the story more dynamic without dramatically altering the flow, which I have discussed as follows: ETHAN MARS It should be made a possibility for Ethan to die in the Shark chapter. I'm cool with Ethan being unable to die in the previous chapters because of the impact they have with driving the story along (mainly tied to Madison), but from the Shark onwards, Ethan could be dead without it completely changing/compromising the flow for the rest of the characters. In On the Loose, Madison could call by Ethan's apartment to find he is not there, and then stumble across the news report in the Motel office that Ethan has been found dead. After initial devastation, her motivations could change to finding Shaun for her career and so that Ethan's death is not in vain. The rest of Madison's chapters would continue as normal as long as she keeps succeeding in her investigations. This would also create an interesting dynamic for the police as Ethan's death may, in Carter and Perry's eyes, be case closed in which Jayden chooses to go rogue and continue looking for Shaun despite being taken off the case. His chapters from there would continue as normal. Shelby's chapters would still play out as normal, with only differing dialogue at the Warehouse when one or both of the remaining heroes come to rescue Shaun. End result would always have Ethan's grave. Another point is that it should also be possible for Ethan to save his son by himself. I always thought it sucked that Ethan couldn't be a hero who survives all the trials and rescues his son alone without dying at the end. The police attendance should only be the result of Madison Paige. (Discussed below) Also worth noting is that, if Ethan and Madison enter a relationship just before Ethan is caught and sent to prison, the ending where Shaun survives only involves Grace at the police station; (as according to Madison's endings, it appears that she and Ethan have no further connection as she can only get the Square One ending or Heroine ending if she lives). Instead of this ending, what should happens is that the player should be given the option of whether Ethan reconciles with Grace or pursues his relationship with Madison, in which the New Life should pan out with the chosen female character and appropriate dialogue. SCOTT SHELBY It should be made a possibility for Scott to drown in his car with Lauren, or be shot dead at Charles Kramer's mansion. While it might be a bit anti-climactic, it would just mean that Madison would be able to discover the evidence of Shelby being the killer without having to escape a burning building, and allow the heroes to rescue Shaun without a fight at the Warehouse. End result will always be Scott's grave with or without Lauren standing over it. NORMAN JAYDEN I personally wouldn't change any of Norman's choices in the game except for his decisions over his Triptocaine use. Norman's best ending should vary depending on how many times Norman takes the triptocaine throughout the game. If Norman never takes triptocaine throughout the course of the game (removing the time he automatically takes it in solving the puzzle), he would get a true best ending where he does not suffer any long-term effects. If he takes it once he should have mild hallucinations. If he takes it twice he should have major hallucinations. If he takes it all three times, he goes into withdrawal and dies. That would make the decisions over whether to use the drug during the game feel like they have real consequences at the end. MADISON PAIGE My biggest criticism about Madison's story is the limited choices she actually has throughout her investigation. When you think about it, her investigation can only come to an end if she dies at the Doc, fails to get the address at the Killers Place or dies at the Killers Place. As a result of this, it is only possible to get the Square One ending if she fails to find the address at the Killers Place but survives and she has no relationship with Ethan (very specific conditions). It would be better if it actually took precise steps and effort to succeed in Madison's investigation leading up to finding Shaun. 1. At the Doc, Madison should be able to choose to leave without finding the Blue Lagoon card. This should apply before and after fighting the Doc. This would result in Madison still appearing in On the Loose and the possibility of having a relationship with Ethan, but then will not appear again until the end of the game in either Square One or New Life. 2. If she does find the Blue Lagoon card and survives the Doc, Madison should be able to die at the Blue Lagoon. There should be the option for Paco to kill her if she refuses to strip or fails to knock him out. There should also be the option for Paco's bodyguard to kill her if she fails to convince him that she and Paco are having sex and he subsequently finds Paco tied up. If she died here and Norman is alive, Norman should be able to find her dead body after fighting the killer in the Fish Tank. The game would subsequently play out the same as if she died in the Doc. 3. Madison should also be given the option to give up in the Ann Sheppard chapter and in Killers Place, which once again her ending options will either be Square One or New Life. In relation to the police, if Madison finds the address to the warehouse and survives the Killers Place, she should be given the option to go alone, call Ethan or call the police (it never made sense that she could call Norman Jayden directly since they never met). If Madison calls the police, she will still attend the warehouse regardless. However the ending will change depending on who else arrives. If it's only Madison and the police, Madison could be giving her evidence to Carter while the police storm the warehouse, rescue Shaun and apprehend Shelby (unless Shelby died earlier). This would lead to a New Life or Madison's Heroine ending. If she calls the police and Ethan shows up at the warehouse on his own efforts, the police will recognise Ethan's car and set up snipers. Upon going up to Carter and telling him of her evidence, Madison could then find out Ethan is inside. After being dismissed by Carter, Madison would then have the opportunity to do her motorbike stunt as she does when all three heroes attend. Madison's failure to get inside the warehouse would result in Ethan being gunned down, which would lead to Square One due to her guilt over indirectly getting Ethan killed. If the police show up, Norman attends and Shelby is alive, the police can rescue Shaun while Madison stands outside and Norman fights Shelby. If Shelby is dead, it will be Norman who carries Shaun out. This will result in the New Life or Heroine endings. This approach to the police would also clear up the inconsistencies in the police attending the warehouse and create an even greater variety in how the final chapter could play out.

[@DWAG-REDGRAVE]

To add on to your thing I feel like there should be two killers instead of one and if Shelby gets killed he greets whoever gets to the warehouse. also it’s better to have two killer to explain some thing one of them being how did Shelby set up the buttery fly trial.

[@liambraithewaite6415]

@@DWAG-REDGRAVE imagine if they had made it so any one of the four characters was the killer. Could easily create a motive for each one

[@DWAG-REDGRAVE]

@@liambraithewaite6415 yeah that would be interesting also you should be able to plays as Lauren ether from the beginning or after Shelby died also there should be a ending where Shane goes to visit Ethan in jail after killing that guy from the shark trail cause he left some of his dna there also if you didn’t kill him whether ending you did plays out

[@Ragamauffin]

I also don't understand how Madison came to know Norman either. The two of them seem to know or at least aware of each other (in paco's place Norman refer to Madison's fingerprint as the journalist's) but it was never explained where they met.

[@MistahJay7]

I was bit disappointed that there was no way to Bring Shelby in to Jail at the end.

[@That_Ifrit_Guy]

It's a fun game that should only ever be played once, as it falls apart the moment you actually think about it

[@Th3SmartAlec]

Professional wrestling needs to be used more as a education device for storytelling.

[@AnyThingWorx]

It really does. Even the poorly written stories are better than drecks like these.

[@Eduardesuper]

Especially long term story telling

[@CommanderWilliams]

It's 11:30 here and I was about to go to bed when I saw this. I think I'll still go to bed, but I'll damn sure watch this first thing in the morning.

[@baambis]

reasonable

[@injusticekombat6656]

I never got why scott wanted to shoot Ethan I think if ethan did all the trail successful and made it to Shaun Scott would thank ethan give him an antidote for the prison and then turn himself in and if Jayden was there scott would say he was the killer and let Jayden arrest him

[@Kagemusha08]

I remember buying this when it game out and being dumbfounded at just how awfully written it was, especially after nearly every review was glowing. Cage is a shitty game designer but he may be an even worse writer despite all of his pretensions.

[@mikeyounes2756]

As a gamer for 30 years who's played everything I love David cage and his games.

[@drakashrakenburgproduction5369]

@@mikeyounes2756 So you've been liking shitty games for 30 years.

[@0_Katt_0]

Ok this game is embarrassing, but Detroit become human is awesome

[@AlexRider589]

David Cage's writing is like a martian who watched American TV's first draft.

[@Blondie_117]

I always got the impression that Scott seemed v annoyed or disinterested in doing anything that find the origami killer which puzzled me throughout my first playthrough but then when the twist is revealed it clicked w me along w the inter monologue of “Lauren rlly thinks she’s going to find the origami killer.. I think she’ll be disappointed” had more weight to it.

[@Nell_Dawson]

I'll be excited if you ever do a analysis on Until Dawn after Beyond: Two Souls. I think it does the concept of the butterfly effect a little better.

[@gratuitouslurking8610]

Screw that, imagine what'll be line if he ever reaches Detroit: Become Human. That's the one I know a lot of people look at as the 'too far' point for David Cage.

[@seanpaul3362]

I'm sure reason this game got so much praise at first was because we hadn't seen anything like this before, but since heavy rain we've gotten similar games like the walking dead, life is strange, and until dawn which are actually good because they're written by competent writers and have better direction so there any excuse for quantic dream games anymore. Which is a shame because that studio is clearly full of talented devs but Cage is the founder and head so he has complete control.

[@luciandust2355]

As somebody who suffers from dissociative episodes very similar to Ethan's blackouts and to what's shown in this scene, I strongly disagree with the point made at 14:18. I don't believe the things that I do while I'm dissociating, nobody does, but the mental response is pretty similar to that of people with severe anxiety: the logical parts of your brain just.. stop responding. It's perfectly reasonable for Ethan, in this state, to instinctively go after Jason. Yes, he knows his son is dead, but in a headspace like what he's presumably in during this scene, he's not entirely "there", if that makes sense. The rest of this video is great, that point just particularly bugs me.

[@obblivionkr]

27:48 That NieR Music in the background. What a subtle jab.

[@MDKcde]

John Chi it was all around

[@Th3SmartAlec]

It's hilarious to me how in (less than) the time it took for Cage's game to be developed, Automata came out and preemptively trounced it in its own theming.

[@clashmanthethird]

"I've always liked the games created by David Cage" -Actual real quote from Yoko Taro.

[@lokazoum4816]

Even though I like Heavy Rain for having a big impact on me, this video is absolutely fantastic! Great job! Extra subscriber.

[@807D14M0ND5]

Curious about the big impact

[@lokazoum4816]

@@807D14M0ND5 It's really nostalgic, but most importantly, it was the first time I realised what video games could be, and saw them as more than just fun little things to do after school, but an actual medium, with potencial to tell beautiful stories with, and make actual art that could change someone's life. At the end, Heavy Rain is a poorly made story, but I'm thankful that it existed. Being really young and seeing something like this, was an irreplaceable experience for me.

[@End3rDJgaming]

This makes it easier to re-watch every month or so, thanks Hudson.

[@thetntm2]

I want to see a similar breakdown of indigo prophesy

[@Dizqard]

Love how thorough this analysis is and how well-paced it is-- having played or watched the whole game at least three times now, seeing it segmented in a lightly edited character-by-character sequence of critique really helps pin down a lot of my feelings. However, I ended up fast-forward through several sections of this because of your own delivery. Not a fan of angry/irate/etc game reviewers, and you've already got a very critical, sharp tone during even the most complimentary parts of the video, so when you start yelling or pause to say "and now I'm going to get mad" it jerks me out of my enjoyment otherwise. Especially grating to have the annoyed dial turned up to 6 or 7 as a baseline because then the stunningly stupid parts of the plot seem to bother you as much as little gripes. Don't regret watching the whole thing, and I'm gonna give another of your videos a try, but here's hoping that the tone's different. Make your videos how you will, and I appreciate you as a critic regardless because there's never enough modern game longform videos, but figured I'd give out a rare comment because your video popped up in the suggestions while I was watching a much more lighthearted reviewer.

[@Csumbi]

While Madison was my favorite character in the game, i cant deny the fact that she is terribly written, and so is the whole story tbh. Scott being the killer made no sense to me what so ever.

[@sarahalbright5307]

It literally could have made sense if they foreshadowed it but they didn’t like at all, if you look back at it there are like small hints but that’s about it

[@Grandmaster_Dragonborn]

@@sarahalbright5307 And that was a fantastic choice; only a few hints & then it came as a shock. It was an amazing plot twist.

[@orlando5789]

@@Grandmaster_Dragonborn It's far from an amazing plot twist. It's exagerated and asks the player to not think critically.

[@cattyditty]

this is one of the best video essays on a game ever!! so happy i stumbled upon this video and your channel today!

[@fangirlforlife237]

Wow your analysis really made me realize how many plot holes and issues the game truly has that I’d never thought before. Also I laughed at your hatred towards Madison 😂 I’d love to see your Beyond Two Souls analysis because damn that game lol

[@BlumenCT]

Madison Page. God damnit. Please tell me Cage didn't name her that because of his weird obsession with Ellen Page.

[@rustcohle3803]

RadianSCT he's pretty creepy, especially with that great body comment..... like nudity is not NEEDED in these types of thrillers or any video game unless it provides a disturbing or shocking or just meaningful element to the overall story/gameplay. It always feels forced imo, for the sake of being labeled "mature" when in fact it is immature cuz showing off live hot boobies would only appeal to horny virgins and the average male teen... if you watch films like se7en and red dragon, nudity does serve a purpose in the overall tone of the story, making you feel more uneased than aroused. Seeing a naked dead body of a woman or man just makes you realize the ugly side of life and police work, making it truly mature to watch.

[@apestogetherstrong341]

Also, why the hell would Scott even mention the typewriter to Lauren??? Why not brush the envelope off as useless???

[@hi-ougidemonfang]

1:03:15 another weird part is this gun appears to have infinite ammo. Maybe I missed it but I didn’t see him reload the pistol.

[@lukeflamand5511]

I have to disagree with your thought of the drug dealer needed to be likable to maybe make the player question killing him. Drug dealers can be bad, depending on what they're selling. Regardless, he's just a guy trying to make a buck, perhaps to support his family, and more specifically his kids. Eithan is a man instructed to kill someone to save his. Both do wrong to help their children. Also, murder is wrong, that idea alone is the whole point of the trial. Drug dealers are bad. Murder is bad. Thats the point lol.

[@jjkilhij9531]

I know that having everybody at the warehouse is deemed more of the “best ending”, but I actually prefer the outcome with only Ethan and Madison there to save Shawn (I feel like the Madison vs Shelby chase was actually more exciting than Jayden vs Shelby on the conveyor belt) and Jayden quitting the FBI since it officially gets him off the stuff he was hooked on

[@brianachim2670]

Heavy Rain isn't about getting back what you lost. It's about moving forward and protecting what you have left in life.

[@SHODAN-TriOptimum]

No it’s about slapstick comedy.

[@fangerboardin4741]

@@SHODAN-TriOptimum SHAUUUNNN

[@scorpion6328]

If the writing was actually good, this would’ve been a pretty decent story.

[@TheLoudFox]

I have rose colored glasses with this game, and I do enjoy it and play it about 2x a year. While I disagree with you on a couple things, you really made me think about it in a different way. Absolutely fantastic video, this is what I watch KZbin for. You have a new sub.

[@freyss9]

dbh hank and connor's dynamic is what jayden and blake' could've been if david cage got someone to beta read his script lmao

[@Heavysweating]

Really well done analysis, looking forward you picking appart the clusterfuck that is the Beyond Two Souls

[@shadowstrike234]

It aint a clusterfuck stfu

[@Heavysweating]

@@shadowstrike234 Thanks for the comment. Made me remember this channel and check it out again, and guess what, he has a video on BTS. I'll be watching that now, I recommend you checking it also to see where I was coming from with my earlier comment.

[@madamefluffy4788]

@@shadowstrike234 It was a terrible game, dude. Given that it has multiple endings, it should make a player want to do numerous playthroughs. I don't know anyone who played the game that played it more than once. My biggest issue was how it kept forcing me to be with Ryan. I played Jody as absolutely despising this man for what he had done to her/how he treated her; but no matter how negative I reacted to him, the game kept pushing me to accepting him as a lover. If I didn't have the option to hook up with Jay, I would have had Jody choose death over returning to the land of the living and forever be hounded by the likes of Ryan.

[@shadowstrike234]

@@Heavysweating yeah I just commented to see if you were still active lol, BTS does suck

[@shadowstrike234]

@@madamefluffy4788 check my previous reply lol

[@Nobody-ve6dh]

The scene where Jayson dies always baffled me, I'm surprised it was from Sony and not the bad David Cage game. I was always under the impression David did all the crazy shit and everyone around him had to constantly tug on his leash for the game to make sense.

[@youtube-kit9450]

Sony just didn't want a little kid to be bulldozed by a car and flung through the air. It was completely on David Cage to just go "ok" and make the scene into the trainwreck it is now. If he actually cared about the game, he'd have rewritten the scene for it to make more sense.

[@todpolle]

A game where the best ending has all the playable characters dying.

[@TheRedGuy]

Nice, I at first thought that this kind of game was interesting in concept, but a big problem they tend to have is your choices don't mean anything. It's just a big waste of potential. I'd say I'd like to see you cover Until Dawn, but I'm currently working on reviewing that game myself heh.

[@ehtlamzone2525]

@Porfirio Rubirosa You can avoid the drink

[@tentrilliconlp7748]

Damn. I didn't even know Neil Druckmann was such a fuck up back then.

[@johnnybensonitis7853]

When Shaun was stuck in the filling rain-water and spoke up I hear it as, "hhheeeEELP. Dad, please. Like, help brah. I'm so terribly inconvenienced right now."

[@lutsconsieteeses4069]

Oh I know I'm sooo late but I really loved that Nier Automata music in the start of Norman Jayden Section, probably my favourite game ever.

[@cherryhazard8002]

I unironically got emotional when you said you enjoyed the chapter where Ethan cuts his finger off, it really IS a great sequence that shows the beauty of the game even if it's heavily influenced by Cage and has a lot of flaws. Small moments like those really show how beautiful and iconic the game could have been if it hadn't been for Cage.

[@alessandrocamara8557]

When the camera pans overs scott’s grave the dates indicate the he’s 44yo while the news reports ten seconds earlier said that he was 48

[@cherryhazard8002]

I think someone already mentioned this possibility, but it'd be great if the 4 main characters all had the possibilites to be the Origami K*ller. Of course it would be one of them, but the player would need to find out on his own who it might be, and if he is wrong, there'd be consequences in regards to it (Possibility of losing Shaun, lost time, clues aren't enough so the player would struggle more with finding Shaun, etc.) Reasons for the 4 main characters possibly being the Origami K*ller: -Ethan: Ethan could be a suspect on Jason's passing, Jason could pass away on "suspicious circumstances" (I am not sure how this would develop, but I think it'd be a good idea), Ethan is a prime suspect on Jason's passing and before the game takes place he'd be questioned and looked into by the police, therefore being on the police's radar already. The blackouts that were removed from the game could make the player suspect further, alongside some paranoid doubt that Ethan could show about having no self control when he has these blackouts. But, he could be a loving parent towards Shaun that seems to show genuine concern towards his disappearence, therefore making the player doubt. -Scott: We would learn the same backstory seen before later on in the game, however, we'd have a harder time piecing together the fact it's Scott due to the psychological display Scott could show that doesn't match the k*ller's motives, dates that wouldn't match, etc. Therefore making the player doubt Scott. Scott could still be the k*ller, and maybe, whilst playing as him, could see him put the dirt on the 3 characters or Kramer, in order for us to clear him as a suspect, via us saying "Oh, he is right, how didn't I catch that?" And after this, the investigation could get even tougher or there would be a consequence. -Madison: I am honestly not sure how we'd go on about her possibility of her being the k*ller (She is THAT one dimensional). This is made up stuff in my head that isn't said in the game, but it could be an addition that kinda makes sense. Maybe she could display contempt towards males due to past SA or some trauma in regards to males, therefore it'd make sense for her to target boys, since targeting grown males would imply physical strength and more work, also possibly could have the motivations to find a "good" man acting like a father to his kid, adding onto the fact that she has done risky things or downright negative stuff in order to gain some sort of recognition as a journalist due to a career in the brink of not being there due to her lack of content as of late (Often doing things in order to make herself appear to be the hero). The player could assume for this to be the case, but the romance she'd have with Ethan would make the player doubt if this was the case (Whilst talking with Ethan, the player could see the fact she feels empathy towards Shaun, doesn't know important details surrounding the case, etc.) If the player doesn't choose to have a romance with Madison, it would be a harder task to discern if she was the k*ller or not. -Jayden: Jayden could be part of an organization that could make the player suspect that he might have had something to do with Shaun's disappearence/FBI funding the Origami K*ller phenomena to gain something from it. This idea is a bit incomplete in my head since it'd require more analysis, but I'm thinking about Jayden as a pawn in a "Hidden Evil" or "Conspiracy" way, if that makes sense. The tripto usage would make the player doubt that Jayden would be the k*ller. This is very disorganized thinking on my part, and I might come back to this in order to modify things and present my ideas better.

[@HygienickaInspekce]

you deserve way more views! amazing "documentary"

[@madamefluffy4788]

The drug dealer was peddling drugs out of the same building he was raising his daughters in. The choice to kill him wasn't even a struggle for me to make - the way I saw it, I )as Ethan) had my own kid to save and I was doing those little girls a favor by removing a very toxic parent from their lives.

[@chychy0326]

I love this video so much i watch every night😭❤️ i love hearing you analyze this game so in debt and your voice is soothing😂

[@chychy0326]

I still do😭❤️ i need an analysis of beyond two souls tho😭

[@seke9885]

@@chychy0326you still watching ma?

[@chychy0326]

@@seke9885 yes😭💀 still waiting for bro to upload again🤦🏾‍♀️

[@LabMatt]

The only bar being raised is the one that is about to cave my skull in

[@luciandust2355]

“Fun fact: Origami magazines actually exist.” [Pause] “WELL I THINK IT’S NEAT!”

[@BladeTheGabite]

Gotta love how "witted" Origami Killer uses a three letter password lmao

[@brunoseixas3658]

Good video. Although I'm a Cage fan, I acknowledge that many of his games can be a lot better (I even think he works better as a director than a writer, but that's just my opinion...) Keep up with the good work!

[@WhatiFRacing]

This game is a fascinating mess. I can't help but look up the games development. This is a wonderful run down on the game. You gave it its praise at times and ripped on it in others. Loved this video a ton!

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

I like to believe the full force of his father landing on him is what REALLY caused his coma, not the actual vehicle. Like, maybe he hit is head on the asphalt or something.

[@yidingliu8663]

Well made video for sure. I still remember Heavy Rain fondly, but I guess there are lots of details that we all overlooked back then... ...

[@Postaldude__]

Ahahah, he showed the Best Friends in the intro. Exactly why i'm here man XD

[@dorshushan6977]

Holy shit what have I just watched. Well thought out, long more like a rant but still, you pointed out everything that is wrong (and right) with Heavy Rain. Thank you for putting together a 2-hour video like this. Hats off to you and those who helped along the way.

[@cash_banooca17]

I swear this is one of my favorite YT videos and I watch it like once a month.

[@cherryhazard8002]

I love Heavy Rain so much, I'd even go so far as to say I have an emotional connection with the game. However, I do see all of the flaws you've pointed out. I thrive on seeing ways that the game could've been improved so that the game would have been one of the best games in gaming history and actually deserve it. If anyone has any ways they could've improved the game, I'd love to read them on the replies of this comment.

[@roxyhart5692]

Lol! Sounds like you're gonna love Detroit. Especially now that they patched one of the most important and difficult choices so that you can literally make a choice but still-kinda-not-really-cause-you-can-sorta-negate-it... "but only if you want to!" AKA removing the choice part of the choice lol. Look, I actually like Cage's works - flaws and all - but I gotta acknowledge the bullshit.

[@LHudson]

Dude. I'm playing Detroit. It's dreadful. It's fucking amazing. It's like the Miami Connection of video games.

[@roxyhart5692]

LHudson Sounds about right haha! Great job on the video BTW, happened upon it by chance and subscribed. Love these types of things and it's rare hearing analysis that aren't just the same point being regurgitated. 10/10, would watch again

[@gianni50725]

Are you talking about letting Chloe go? Honestly that felt like a throwaway choice in the first place, I don't really mind. She was just kinda there to awkwardly say hello when you booted up the game. I wouldn't call it a "difficult" choice either because the correct choice is obvious and has little impact beyond not seeing her again.

[@mueezadam8438]

I wish KZbin rewarded long form analyses like this more

[@ChubuPeng]

i mean i thought shaun sounding "bored" in that video was him already being exhausted trying to keep afloat but yea, any other instances of his voice acting was whack

[@tyty685]

Any analysis that doesn't mention how Jayden says "origami" neglects the most crucial part of the game. I liked the video, but I also love heavy rain. I'd rather take something truly unique and slightly flawed than something banal.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Slightly is an understatement.

[@tyty685]

@@fightingmedialounge519 Didn't it win a bunch of awards? What is your favorite game? The last of us 2 bahaha?

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@tyty685 yes, because winning awards always means a product is of high quality. I guess the razzies must be like a second Oscar's for you.

[@tyty685]

@@fightingmedialounge519 uh huh cool. Tell me how your transgender body builder is a better protag

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@tyty685 the hell talking about? If you're trying to insult a game I like, then that would require you to actually know which games I liked; if you're trying to say I'm transgendered; that would require you to know some personal information about me.

[@shingshongshamalama]

David Cage's weirdly mixed reception is proof of one thing. Some people just have objectively terrible taste. I mean, some people think Heavy Rain was well-written. Heavy Rain. HEAVY RAIN. The game where a man falls into a coma for six months and his own wife doesn't point out how that makes it literally impossible for him to be the murderer. For NO REASON WHATSOEVER. The game where a female character is introduced in a dream sequence where she gets chased by rape ninjas and murdered for no reason and whose only purpose in the narrative is to be a love interest and also get into trouble. The game that actively lies to you to obfuscate its really stupid plot twist that makes no sense. The game where that same female character teleports from inside a fridge to outside the building via camera cut. The game with an entire subplot about blackouts that just gets abruptly dropped midway through because David Cage decided the supernatural thing wasn't working but DIDN'T BOTHER REMOVING THE SCENES ABOUT IT FROM THE FUCKING GAME. Also, there's a scene where a car flips over in the rain and then the back wheel bursts into flames for no reason. In the rain. For no reason. Because dramatic tension.

[@thatsalocalwayofbreakingth424]

28:45 1 or 2 actually. Ethan can find the address if he at least complete 3 trials. 1:56:09 You know, I remember trying to not have the Taxi by making sure Ethan get arrested at the motel and Blake didn't receive a call saying that Ethan was found and yet, THE POLICE STILL FUCKING SHOW UP WHEN I GET ALL 3 CHARACTERS AT THE WAREHOUSE OR ONLY GET ETHAN ! Like really, David Cage wrote that dialogue and he didn't think about the possibility that the player wouldn't have the Taxi ? What an idiot !

[@vincenzosama]

I keep saying: Heavy Rain is a good game and deserves the fame it has, it's just not a masterpiece. A game to be remembered doesn't have to be perfect, in fact there are many reasons for people to remember certain games, whether these reasons are good or bad, technical or nostalgic, etc. Heavy Rain will always have its importance in the history of games for having popularized the narrative story genre and having decided to approach a more mature and dark theme in games. It may seem today that certain decisions that can be made in the game could be more impactful in the direction of the plot, but to be honest they work until today, it just doesn't work in the way we are used to, especially after games like Until Dawn and Detroit Become Human were created. , but remember that Quantic Dream was still testing a way to consolidate this style of game in the market and also the limitations imposed by the technology of the time. Of course, this won't fully justify certain decisions made by the production, but it sure doesn't ruin the game to the point of being unbearable to play. Ironically, Heavy Rain gives much more meaningful and major plot-altering choices than its spiritual successor. Beyond: Two Souls, which fails in this aspect and even though it is a game produced for the PS4 generation and has a slightly longer development time than its predecessor, but ended up failing in many points due to poor execution of the narrative and choices of elements to be included that could have been very different and better, creating a more consistent and less dense and tiring narrative I got Heavy Rain for PS4 via PSN Plus and decided to replay it a few days ago, just as a way to relax and it still works great for me. The story proposal is very simple and straightforward, it has an assassin and the playable characters are somehow involved with this context, each with their own motivations. The fact that you're rewarded with achievements for every new and final choice you discover is a good replay factor and makes you want to see what happens if you make such an "X" decision or don't make such a "Y" decision. And yes, not wanting to make a decision is a mechanic that already existed in this game and not in Detroit Become Human, as many might think and that changes certain scenes. In general, it's worth playing this game if you like interactive storylines or if you want to play a game of this type for the first time, it's a good start. What was lacking was a better execution of ideas and a better way to organize certain decisions and their influence, in addition to having given a better polish to the coherence of certain dialogues of thoughts, especially Scott's (for reasons that I can't say because it would be a spoiler), made a better choice of voice actors and have created a few more paths that the player could take but in short it's enough. There's no reason to hate this game, that's pretty dumb behavior. Again, it's not a masterpiece, but it's a good game, even with some flaws. Thanks for the video!

[@juliet4093]

Idk it’s a story game with a bad story, it’s not very good imo

[@nopatiencejoe6376]

Madison's characterization alone is motive enough to hate the game.

[@vincenzosama]

@@juliet4093 Meh, i kinda like it, The potential is all there but they slipped a little in certain parts or aspects.

[@vincenzosama]

@@nopatiencejoe6376 I do not understand this. If she wants to investigate Ethan, so be it. Honestly, a character doesn't have to be morally good or bad, he just has to follow the path he wants, and I was much more pleased to know that she had a more logical motive of her own than just being "extremely charitable" and helping a gentleman she's never seen in her life for no reason at all. Medison's campaign idea is, again, not a bad one, but it was very overshadowed due to being considerably rushed and that the relationship between Ethan and Medison was not deepened enough for the option of romance between the two to be suitable. It's that David Cage mania of putting certain things that in the head seem cool but that in practice don't work so well, because at the time it seemed like something "cool" to add to "deep" the game, but it just ends up looking out of place.

[@youtube-kit9450]

@@juliet4093 It's a game about story, character and choices that has bland, boring to just downright cliché characters in which the main villain's motivation is idiotic, has a story with a crazy amount of plot holes, and that makes most of your choices matter very little to not at all, or takes away choice from you constantly. Like, if I want to play a game with basic characters, no story and is linear, I play super mario or somethi- oh wait, Super Mario 64 gives me more choice by letting me fight Bowser at the end with any of the 70 stars from the game, whoops.

[@bronosx2246]

Heavy Rain is a terrible game. By the way, do you know what happens if you fails all the trials somehow. I tried this on purpose to see what would happen. I purposely failed all the trials and then I had Madison call Ethan to tell him that she found an address to where Shaun is. Once that is done, Ethan will arrive at the Warehouse first and will manage to save Shaun from drowning and the poison will not kill him. Then Madison will arrive and when Shelby shows up, he will congratulate Ethan that he's the father he's been looking for all these years and Ethan will say, 'You got what you wanted. I finished your trials.' even though that I clearly failed all of them on purpose. David Cage is terrible at story telling.

[@LongLiveHelghast]

Late but I believe if you pass two or fewer trials Ethan gives up on the search for Shaun

[@JS-ne2sd]

"I'm too incompetent to complete the trials and so someone had to tell me therefore game BAD" Jesus Christ kid

[@oliverglover6091]

At 15:50 the point about the car not having been used by previous fathers going through the trials: it wasn't confirmed that that exact car was used for each father's trials. We know the Origami killer has the means to get a hold of stolen cars (at least one way, through Mad Jack) so it's possible that he used multiple cars for this trial, held at either the same garage or multiple different ones, and each father was simply directed to one car. This possibility is enhanced if the fact that the car could easily get damaged during this trial and taking the car to get repaired (if it was in a repairable state) would put the killer at a higher risk of getting caught and if it's damaged beyond repair he couldn't get another father to use it is taken into account. Also other aspects of the trials weren't or couldn't have been passed over from one father to the next. E.g. all of the fathers couldn't have murdered the same man, so if a previous father had killed the drug dealer Brad Silver Ethan couldn't have completed that trial unless he was given someone else to kill, and if Ethan kills him if another father goes through the same trials he would have to kill someone else as Silver would already be dead. Jeremy Bowles' father recieved a different phone than Ethan and Hassan recieved a different box, so we know that even if the boxes contained contents directing them through similar trials the boxes, and the contents were all different ones for different fathers so it's within the realms of possibility that the cars were different as well.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

That's a lot of hoop jumping.

[@bronosx2246]

David Cage did absolutely poorly when coming up with Carter Blake's attitude. You know what he should've done to make Blake's behavior far better, well explained, and hell, more to the extent to make us actually connect and like Blade? It would make more sense that Blake's acts the way he is jumping to conclusions and suspects without proof or evidence because maybe Blake is very angry because maybe he had a son he loved so much that was killed by the Origami Killer. Because the Origami killer took his son away from him, it would make more sense why Blake is the way he is; this would make us, the players, more likable to Blake and understand why he's doing all of this abuse of authority: He wants to catch the man who took his son away from him either brought to justice or killed. Hudson, I am sure that even you can come up with a better method of story progression than David Cage.

[@c.m.9369]

SPOILER (of course): Wait, what?! How can you go so easy on Scott and the twist about him being the Origami Killer?! I mean, yeah, you go into a rant about all the plot holes, which is fair enough... but you completely skip over the fact how destructive this is for the gameplay! Scott CAN'T be the Origami Killer, since WE, the PLAYER, have been in control of him and have dictated his actions and choices. We saw his thoughts, therefore know that none of his thoughts in any of the situations were focused on making evidence disappear, which absolutly would have been the case, if he was the killer. But even worse, the player (and therefore Scott) makes decisions based on the belief that he isn't the killer, but an investigator trying to find evidence. The problem I have with this entire thing is, that the story and the gameplay pull into two completely opposite directions. The gameplay have you make choices based on what you, as the character, would do. But if you then turn around and say, that the character had information that you didn't have, that he was hiding from you, all the choices you made become not just meaningless, but actively destructive to the story and the immersion. Which is why I never could bring myself to play this shitty game again, after I've already played it once. Shitty writing and voice acting, and a butterfly effect going haywire, all that I could overlook, but the game giving me a twist that essentially tells me, that I was objectively wrong in the narrative to make the choices with Scott for the reasons I did... that's just horrendous in a game where it's so important that the players can put themselves into the shoes of the characters. I don't often categorically say what a game can or can't do. Because generally I'm of the opinion that anything can be done, if it's done right. But something that I would come close to say you can't do is: have a game where you need to make meaningful choices for a character and the have a twist about the intentions and motives of that character. That just doesn't work, because it necessarily invalidates that reasons you have had for the choices you, as that character, made. It's a horrible twist. Some little pieces of foreshaddowing doesn't change that. And people praised the twist, because they... "didn't see it coming". Of course they didn't. Because it makes no sense.

[@LHudson]

I believe I made mention of how the story we've seen essentially lied to you through gameplay (that goddamn typewriter death I mean Jesus Christ!), although I remember it being very brief.

[@c.m.9369]

@@LHudson Yes, you go over it very shortly. And my comment was actually less meant as an attack or so against your video, and more a mention of what bothered me especially. You did a great job with the video, no doubt. I just know that, for me, even if you could fix the skript, so it doesn't contain all these plot holes and this misapplication of the buttefly effect, it STILL wouldn't work for me, because as I said, I don't think you can make a video game where you're simultanously supposed to control a character and get immersed in his situation and choices AND at the same time lie about his motives. Even with the best skript in the world, I don't think this could ever make sense or not break my immersion.

[@LHudson]

@@c.m.9369 I think the best way to do this sort of "you are the bad guy" twist is to either make it so the character has amnesia and tries to piece their memories together (Amnesia: The Dark Descent did something akin to this), or utilise gameplay to critique the player and the genre itself (Spec Ops: The Line).

[@c.m.9369]

@@LHudson Oh, absolutely! I'm not saying, you can't have a game where the protagonist is a bad guy, or has background that is unknown and turns him into the antagonist due to a twist... as long as the guy you're playing it is in the same shoes as you. The two examples you bring work, because the character is in the same situation as you are: They have either forgotten what they did, or repress it in one way or another. But with Scott, this doesn't work, because he's supposed to act under the full knowledge that he's the killer. Meaning, his action would be made under a different understanding of the situation that you, the player, make him do. Just as a hypothetical: If it turned out, that Ethan was the killer, and he was testing himself (in the way that he thought for a long time he was doing), that would have worked. Because you still would be making the choices as Ethan, because you would be controlling him in the situations when the non-killer side of his mind was present and he didn't know what he was doing. What it needs is the character and the player being on the same page. Otherwise, you destroy the meaningfulness of your choices.

[@blobom1]

Wow,really really well constructed analysis/critique with a nice sense of snarky humour. Very interesting video

[@psx0005rr]

Interesting analysis. Still, as another person had said on here already-I'd rather play a flawed game than a same 'ol same ol' game that doesn't do much to push the gaming medium forward (think Call of Duty). David Cage is not perfect, but his efforts to push the interactive storytelling medium are to be commended. Reviewers and folks who analyze works by artists out there have a job to do-which is praise or tear apart something based on opinions. Some may agree, some may disagree but it always comes down to this-don't like it, then find the resources and talent to get something put together yourself, and then be open for that work to be dissected and given its appropriate praise or criticisms.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

That's not how criticism works.

[@psx0005rr]

@@fightingmedialounge519 Right, considering you're replying 2 years later and most of us have moved on from this game-you're very late.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@psx0005rr yet you felt it was important enough to reply to. Really undermining your attempt to be clever and make a point.

[@psx0005rr]

@@fightingmedialounge519 Blah blah blah, shutting you down.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@psx0005rr by continuing to embarrass yourself? You sure showed me.

[@EllieKat]

That was so cathartic. Thank you.

[@Elite7555]

Essentially, David Cage games suck because he doesn't understand what a video game is.

[@youtubehandlesux]

Dude probably should make some visual novels instead, lower budget, none of those QTE crap and easier to just purely tell a story

[@ghostrideralex11]

Wow. What a great video I just sat down watch the entire video. And I did really enjoy it. I'm surprised I haven't heard of your channel sooner this just popped up in my recommendations as I was going through KZbin. And I look forward to more content like this in the future. So when are you going to release that Beyond Two Souls video? I'm sure you probably answer this question many times but I figured I'd try to ask here. Thanks ... and keep up the good work :-)

[@QuebecSouverain]

I love your choice of background music... Nier, Silent Hill, Deadly Premonition and Catherine all have amazing soundtrack

[@MrLuxord1209]

Throughout the video this guy... playing all those deadly premonition, D4, persona, catherine and nier music. A man after my own heart.

[@chychy0326]

Could you do another narrative analysis to until dawn, beyond two souls Or The walking dead game??

[@trentsworld7745]

Heavy Rain for me is one of those games that is just not good, but I still love for some reason.

[@waltchamberlain5165]

Hilarious and fantastic video analysis on a brilliantly broke and iconic piece of entertainment