Hegel P30 preamp. The point of diminishing return.

#hifi #preamp #audiophile #stereo #audioreviews #highfidelity
Gear used in this review
Hegel P20 preamp
Hegel P30 preamp
Hegel HD30 Streamer
Hegel H30 power amp
Lumin Power amp
Exasound E28 DAC
Quad 2905
DIY speakers
Q Acoustics concept 500 speakers
Silverline Sonata speakers
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[@ThomasAndStereo]

Sorry guys, I forgot to boost the volume in post-processing for this video and in the last video.

[@mr.george7687]

Jumped out of my seat when commercial came on , the volume is 3 times louder!

[@robertdebellefeuille245]

Thank

[@amb3cog]

Yea I can't listen to your videos when I'm driving (I drive for a living), like I do with other reviewers, unfortunately. It would be awesome, if you could fix that. I hate having to wait till I get home to watch your new videos. 😊 ✌️

[@jeffkalina7727]

Thought I was just getting even more deaf!

[@SK-Elin]

Trying really hard to listen . got shock when the commercial come out.

[@MrPkimura]

I find how you explain high end gear the easiest to relate to - it makes the most sense... to me, anyways, and it's much appreciated. Great review

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I appreciate that!

[@dinsy512]

Yes, Thomas thinks deeply and tries really hard to come at things from multiple angles to dig for answers to difficult questions.

[@papapatriot]

On behalf of your fans here on KZbin, don't stop making these great videos!

[@MangoZen]

You know Thomas, your approach to reviewing is so engaging. It feels like you’re sitting in my room having a conversation over some wine and trading experiences. at the end of each review I learned something new and you made me think. Thanks!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Glad you feel that way. It was what I wanted the channel to be.

[@chrisnyc3641]

"You either have the mojo or you don't." I love that. If the mojo is what you're chasing, then whatever gets you the mojo is "worth it." 👍

[@ThomasAndStereo]

😁😁😁

[@LolkeDijkstra]

I think you are one of the most sympathetic audio enthousiasts around here on KZbin. Always a pleasure to listen to what you have to say (even if I don't agree)

[@ronkindel383]

Thomas, I have never committed on one of your videos before even though I have enjoyed them for a long time. KZbin providers like you and Ron at New Record Day and Steve at The Audiophiliac, and so many others really help bring our hobby to life like no mere magazine can. I especially enjoy your viewpoint as it aligns closely with mine. I find that I am very jealous of you. Not for your extensive system but of your circle of audio friends. I have never enjoyed that where I live. Watching your channel brings me some of that diversity of audio viewpoints that I crave. Please keep the videos coming. You do a very good job indeed.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Hey Ron, thanks for commenting and sharing your thoughts. It warms my heart.

[@ronkindel383]

@@ThomasAndStereo Thomas, I don’t know if this is the best place to ask but I do have a question for you. Partially based on you review of the Schiit Freya, I purchased the + version. Absolutely love it using the passive stage. Tube stage not so much. Most of the time I find it so-so. But sometimes it sounds sublime. Recently I have been turning it on in the morning and leave it cooking in buffer mode. This seems to increase my success rate with the tube stage. I have used JJ & Tung Sol tubes so far. Have you experienced any sonic inconsistencies when using tube gear?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

@@ronkindel383 Hi Ron, no I have not experience sonic inconsistencies, sure, some of them need hours to warm up but once it reaches its peak condition, it stays consistent.

[@ronkindel383]

@@ThomasAndStereo It is very entertaining to listen to the changes when they happen. It starts in the bass. It tightens up and gets deeper. Then the improvements work their way upwards in frequency. Within 10 minutes or so the mids snap into focus and soundstage improves. Almost a drug like experience. I’m not crazy, really.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

@@ronkindel383 Oh, it is normal that you need to let tubes warm up. I have an amp here that takes a few hours to reach optimal performance, while a Doge 10 needs only 5 to 10 mins. I forget how long the Freya needs.

[@danielesbordone1871]

Hegel is good , but these hi-fi prices are getting out of hand.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Nah, high prices audio gear have been around. Just we don't hear about it often. I could have made a video on a $100k preamp, now that is high price.

[@amb3cog]

@Csab No it's not. It's a luxury item. And a lot of work went into building it. But they won't sell very many, and they use dealers that have to make money too. The only reason stuff like cell phones are so cheap, is due to economies of scale. If they sold millions of these. They would be a lot more reasonable. These companies do not get very rich like you think, in fact there's many people that make expensive HiFi gear, and even they themselves can't afford it. It's for people that have the money, and that want the best. It's definitely not a rip off though. That is simply not true at all, and this has been discussed a million times over already. Ask anyone who's been in the industry for a long time, and they'll tell you the same thing. The only people doing really well, are actually the ones selling the cheap stuff, like Bose, or Polk. And they're making it due to sales volume. Not because of high prices. Any good business man knows you make real money on volume, like McDonald's. In fact. I bet every McDonald's franchise does better then the head of Hegel does in yearly profit. I know which one I would choose to own myself, if I wanted to make money. And let's just say I'll be wearing a paper hat that day. 🤣🤣🤣

[@mrpositronia]

Nope.

[@homerjones3291]

It used to be that you couldn’t get a decent system, let’s say 40 years ago for under a thousand dollars, and there was so much junk out there, where $200 bought you an Electrophonic combo system full of cheesy parts. At that time you couldn’t get out of a true hifi store for less than $500 for one item, and that was strictly entry level. And forget about bringing it back if you didn’t like it.

[@Audfile]

Out of hand? High Fi has gotten better and cheaper than ever before. But ultra high end has always been here. You can spend $200K on just a DAC if you have the means. Let me ask you this, do you think the people who purchase ultra high end, people who tend to be very good at making and keeping money, do you think they are idiots and oblivious to your special wisdom?

[@siriosstar4789]

"just dont think you can buy a pair of speakers and get a fantastic sound stage " And that's why the original big SDAs were so incredible . you could plop them down in your living room full of obstacles , set them up according the distances in the instruction book , hookup the imbilical cord and BLAM instant sound stage . My audiophile buddy back in the eighties didn't believe it was possible either . after five minutes of listening to my SDAs he got in his truck and drive an hour and a half to the stereo shop and bought the biggest ones they had . true story .

[@MusicLover-01]

P20 sounds almost lifeless compared to the P30. It is crazy how the P30 throws the music away from you without losing any detail... everything is there but just a touch further from you rather than being thrown at you... Just when I thought it started to bore me it grabbed me again... sort of as you begin to relax due to its smoothness it pokes you to remind you to pay attention... this is quite a special unit. 👏

[@rig4365]

Thomas speaks the truth about the importance of electronics.

[@stonefree1911]

Great video Thomas, I think you should be one of the top youtube audio reviewers/analysts. Way too much ego and product pushing with so many "top" guys (who seem to all start with a "Z" these days...) and your videos are objective and helpful. Thank you Sir.

[@David-mi3il]

‘Less is more’ the Hegel looks incredible

[@jeffkalina7727]

Love your line about "Friends may call my wife ugly but never knock my sound gear" ! Good one!!

[@eafc2112]

Well unfortunately I only have the funds for the Schiit Freya plus LOL and it sound wonderful!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Congrats! Yes, the Freya is very good and crazy good at its asking price. I have not heard the Freya plus yet but I would assume it is very good.

[@beslemeto]

Do you think it can be used with 6J5 tubes with an adapter?

[@2savetherepublic]

If it sounds this good over listening to your sound sample on my dell, I can only imagine! Tingles. Nice work Thomas!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@noahtheviking1]

You are getting really good at this Videography stuff!

[@joemartin6439]

Thomas, I have an Audio Space as-3i integrated tube amp. Now my horn speakers show much full and my 704 Dual sounds marvellous

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I remember hearing Audio Space once, it was nice.

[@zanshin09]

I love Schiit gear, but I had to get rid of my Freya. In tube mode it was so microphonic I could snap my fingers near the tubes and hear it through the speakers. Tried 3 sets of tubes, and sent it in for inspection; they said it was within spec.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

That is what a lot of people said. The problem with 6SN7 is just that, they can be microphonic due to their size. In my case, I am lucky because my friend have hundreds of them and it was easy for me to find a set that is not.

[@jon4715]

Interesting. I've had a few microphonic vintage used tubes, but I have around 40 tubes and generally haven't had issues. Haven't tested them all. But the modern JJ and Russian Tung-sols have had none at all.

[@takismi]

the octal tubes is almost al lmicrophonic and this is the reason why all uses 9pin tubes in preamplifiers

[@jon4715]

@@takismi Very interesting, thanks for a new subject to research. I've seen 9-pins in phono stages.

[@Coneman3]

Vibration damping?

[@charlesnr]

I am glad I found the Parasound JC2 to satisfy long term listening without fatigue and fabulous imaging.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@luctardif8444]

Very good video, thanks Thomas !

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks!

[@annenominous7220]

I hate Hegel gear, i find it poorly made with abysmal circuit layout. But many people Love it! I value build quality very highly, so not for me. Question, what was the video playing in the background of the Singer in white with silver microphone? Looked interesting :)

[@freelancer1499]

I'm curious too!

[@amb3cog]

Hmm curious? That part stuck out for me too. We must all be men of culture I guess? 😁

[@ThomasAndStereo]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/q2Sop2tnr7udgtE I never open up the Hegel so I can't comment on the build quality.

[@2ChannelListening]

Thomas, you really have learned how to distill why its worth chasing the mojo! I absolutely loved the last scene with the Audiophile School of Learning, LOL...so true. Thanks for a wonderful look behind the scenes, justifying the price of the Hegel P30. Mr. DIY's system is gorgeous, love the racking system. Cheers.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@laurelhardy4064]

What Thomas? We don't use preamps to pickup girls? I better cancel my order than, great review, thanks.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Lol.

[@stephenstevens6573]

It depends on the girl...there are a few...

[@bartvanransbeeck1341]

Allways nice to your sharing ,enjoy it

[@JonathanMoore3fecta]

So just curious.. if the Freya is 85% of the P30, where does the P20 rank amongst the two? Sadly, the P30 is firmly out of range but the P20 is within grasp.

[@damienlahoz]

buy what you want. some of us chase price to performance. some of us not. personally, i enjoy music, not gear. unfortunately there is a large enough segment of the population who values gear over music, hence how hegel can straight face sell a preamp for $10,000, knowing its is only marginally better than other offerings costing far cheaper. but hey, whatever makes people happy

[@solarfall2728]

The Hegel is only 10k? That's not too bad for a high end piece. The preamp in my system costs more than double. It sounds good, though, and is worth every penny.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I think we might be seduced by gear only at the beginning. Once you pass the honeymoon stage, you will come back to the music. That is why instead of only listening to audiophile recording, I now listen even to youtube because, at the end of the day, it is the music that is most important.

[@damienlahoz]

@@ThomasAndStereo exactly. music is the purpose of all this (well should be). and most of us grew up, whenver that was, listening to am/fm radio, crap cassettes, burned CDs and crappy old records on standard turntables. but we loved music. i watch reviews all day, i enjoy it, but i have never seen an audiophile reviewer review music. why? arent audiophiles at the vanguard of music listening? the people who review music, thier gear is standard stuff, headphones mostly. makes you wonder what is really going on in this hobby. but hey, as you and many others have stated, to each his own

[@michaelhastie7324]

I agree with Paul. In addition to that is your LOVE of audio is clearly evident. ( I may be buttering you up / wondering if you have anything lying around that you feel like sending to Manitoba?

[@audioaficionado9494]

I got the Freya S while they were still available. No regrets or equipment envy.

[@chitwaiwong]

Love your reviews Thomas! you are by far my favourite audiophile reviewer 😊 I am seriously considering the Hegel P30 preamp after trying preamps at the end of the opposing ends of the spectrum (Benchmark LA4, PrimaLuna Evo300) but no one currently carries the Hegel P30 for a home demo back here in Australia. Benchmark LA4 was super transparent, detailed, dynamics was off the charts, loved it but it also gave me slight listening fatigue with my system and had no HT bypass, PrimaLuna on the other hand had very lush, soundstage was quite holographic too, amazing saxophones, female vocals, orchestras, it would be fun to tube roll but wasn't sure if I wanted that level of colouration with all genre of music I liked, I did also miss the dynamics in the LA4. I feel like the Hegel P30 could be a good balance, midway between the two albeit being the more expensive unit of the three, was super intrigued when you said silver cables might be an option with the P30, would silver cables work with Focals? My current system comprises of a pair of red Focal Sopra 3 powered by a pair of Michi M8 monoblocks, a 212se REL sub, PrimaLuna Evo300 preamp (borrowed), the Topping D90 MQA dac, playing Tidal on PC in an approx 45sqm room. am really thinking of jumping the gun and getting the P30, this hobby is sooo dangerous for the wallet 😅 Is there anything you think that I need to be aware of that might screw up the synergy here? Any other preamps you think I should consider? this might be the last component I get for a long while 😁 are you selling that P30? 😅

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks. What do you find missing in your setup? I personally think you can upgrade your DAC. If you can borrow a Meitner DAC (the one in my matrix element I video), you will see a big upgrade. The preamp, hmmm, if you can't get your hands on a P30 in Australia to try at home, can you at least listen to it in the store? Synergy is a big thing with high-end audio. At this price, we are looking for 'perfection' and 'a bit off' is simply unacceptable. Silver cables can work for Focal but you already mentioned listening fatigue so it might not be for your current system.

[@chitwaiwong]

@@ThomasAndStereo Thanks for taking the time to respond Thomas! That's a good suggestion, I presume you mean the matrix element i? will have a look might try to find something with an ESS9038pro chip again, I got a really good level of slam and midrange with the combination of the Topping D90 akm4499 chip and the benchmark LA4, and on top of that I felt like the soundstage was deeper, background was black and airiness was great with the akm chip, was very happy and would've stayed with the combo (amazing for the money) if I did not get listening fatigue, I lost the same level of slam and dynamics with the PrimaLuna evo300 but gained more of the airiness, lush euphonic colouration so was thinking the P30 might help me get that tight slam back in my system, (weight of the piano keys in Angel was definitely felt more with the LA4 😉) while retaining the detail and air but with the rounded sound as you described in your video I won't get listening fatigue. hmm maybe I should look for some other preamp where I can find a demo locally...

[@ThomasAndStereo]

@@chitwaiwong I meant the Meitner DAC I mentioned in the video. Even the element I is not good enough for your system.

[@chitwaiwong]

@@ThomasAndStereo you are right that my Dac is probably the weakest link, couldn't get my hands on the Mietner Ma1 v2 or MA3, but am trying out an Aqua R2R dac this weekend 😅 the dynamics, detail, and imaging is quite impressive.. not to takeaway from the Topping D90 which is a great budget dac, this hobby is soooo dangerous to the wallet.. this Aqua dac is making the system quite a lot more engaging, am afraid to try the Nagra, MSB and Audio Note dacs 😅 Ended up getting the Hegel p30 too 😅 made such a big difference to the system, still managed to retain the rounded sound I liked from the PrimaLuna, not as lush sounding but the dynamics, speed, imaging separation and detail more than makes up for it, feel like Lindsey Stirling is performing just right in front of me 😁😁 I am averaging 8 hours of listening when I work from home now 😅

[@TheKent2288]

@@chitwaiwong thank you for sharing. Having a Focal Sopra 2 and considering either the PrimaLuna 400 and P30 this is exactly the info I am looking for.

[@tcc5750]

8:19 I love that you mentioned the appearance, it was the thing on my mind....so many Hegel look identical. Makes it awkward to think a $9000 product looks like a $2000 model as well. I guess it's a blessing and a curse.

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Good Video Thomas, Liked your relaxed style and good slider shots. I agree with you on diminishing returns, and that value is in the eye of the beholder. I love Hegel products, and have a great relationship with them having tried H120, H390 and Mohican CD player, but I think I'd have to stop at H390 because I'd need better speakers.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Hey, glad you drop by. I really like your reviews too. Yeah, the discussion on diminishing returns is really interesting and depends on who I talk to, the conversation can change significantly.

[@13thnotehifireviews7]

Thomas & Stereo a few review people I know don’t believe in it. Your points are on point

[@michaelmityok1001]

Totally agree. Diminishing returns is a real thing, but it is offset in some cases by the WHOA factor. For people who have deep pockets and the desire to experience that higher 10%, spending 9K on a preamp is a no-brainer.

[@howardskeivys4184]

It has taken me many years of trial and error. It has been a learning curve which is still rising. But I have now built a system, which, with in limits, reproduces music the way I like to hear it, and a system of which I’m proud! If anyone chooses to express negative criticism of my system, that is there absolute right and will not offend me in the slightest. After all, I built it to satisfy my listening preference and pleasure and not theirs. Often, a third party’s constructive negative criticism can prove useful in ironing out issues unnoticed by me.

[@roberthart9886]

dual mono with true balanced kit will give the solid center image and 3D experience

[@homerjones3291]

Only Thomas could get me to watch a $9k preamp review three times. No way in hell I’m going to buy one, but still...

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Wow, I am speechless. Glad you enjoy it.

[@masterchef6694]

In my opinion, it looks horrible not minimalistic. As you said, they are confident they will well in a cereal box. At that price point it should look elegant.

[@stevedays3576]

My FM 245 is the sole of my system and I agree with Thomas that either you have or not have mojo. I simply won’t accept a system doesn’t have mojo

[@shingnosis]

This was certainly interesting. My own experience has thought me that for every solid state pre-amp costing $10k there is a tube pre-amp costing $5k which is at least its equal. So for all of you to think so highly of the P30, especially in comparison to the Audio Research, is sobering. Possibly one of the biggest curve-balls in this channel for experienced audiophile. I have to ask though how you'll like the P30 after a few months, sometimes it's only after prolonged listening you realize that a component added a certain coloration to the music and then that coloration then gets tiresome in the long run. I'm sure you are experienced with this phenomena. As for the looks, some very rich people have no problems dropping 100k on a stereo system but they don't want to brag about it. They like to be able to invite people into their home and not have everyone know they spent more on audio than most people spend on a car. I think Hegel will do well here.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Cool, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[@therealdarcman]

The Hegel P30 was on my back of the mind to buy list. I read the P20 is 85% of the P30 for a lot less money, but we all know its the last 10% or 15% that cost us. A few months back I had a very difficult which preamp to keep decision between the Rogue Audio RP-7 and the Primaluna EVO 400. Both preamps are really great, there is no bad choice. In the end I kept the EVO 400. I bought 2 NOS 1959 Phillips Winiwatt 5AR4 rectifier tubes for it and 4 NOS 60s Mullard 12AU7 tubes and 2 NOS 1959 Radio Technique 12AU7 tubes. The new tubes took the EVO 400 to another level.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks for sharing.

[@nc3419]

Speaking of budget gear, I picked up a Keces E40 and really like it. I call it my mini Hegel next to my Hegel integrated. If you can get your hands on one, I think it is worth reviewing. It has 4 RCA connections, one of which is a MM input and the other a pre-out. Measured power outputs per one review approx 34/62 watts into 8/4 ohms respectively at low distortion levels (not 1% or higher), and up to 15 amps per channel (maybe a bit overstated imo, but still up there). Within what can be considered a budget system, it would do nicely and a small footprint (weighs under 10lbs.). Also adds a usb connection for those who do not have a dac. FYI.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Wow....very very interesting.

[@nc3419]

@@ThomasAndStereo Only a couple of reviews but your style and approach is what many people can relate to and trust. I downsized in bulk but wanted to retain as much SQ as possible. Drives Focal 807W speakers very well.

[@williamlee1277]

I always find the pre-amp is the most important of the system. To get a better value of pre-amp, normally are tube pre-amps. Somehow they are able to give the vibes of the sound stage, and its separation at a much more reasonable cost, as compared to a high price solid state. For a system cost, normally I will put up 30% to Front ( CD + DAC + streamer) to mid 30% ( preamp) to 30 ~ 40% ( power amp + speaker). Thanks for the info, hopeful for a more great pre-amp. I do agree with you on the design that it looks too similar.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yeah, for some, the preamp is the most important component in the system.

[@beslemeto]

Well i got few quads of NOS and some military tubes,but i will wait for next generation Schiit preamp since i have another NAD 1155 vintage amp which is wonderful and it cost me only £150 :).And it sounds like £1500 preamp!I can enjoy it all day without fatigue.Super sweet sound and great bass.Design is super simple inside,but the sound goshhhh.I really don't need another preamp,but i just wanna try the "Magic" of the tubes and compare my sweet NAD to see how better the tubes will be as everyone says..

[@jeffkalina7727]

Love the reader board too. Thanks for making me laugh!!

[@larrywe3320]

More Whoa! in a $1000 unit sounding like a $3K one than a $8K unit sounding like well... $8K - I 100% agree

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Haha, well said.

[@Audfile]

Thomas I just ordered the P90 preamp. Be here in 3 days. Pretty excited. Plan for tubes now is a Doge 7 dac in a while after. Thanks for your advise!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Topping P90?

[@Audfile]

@@ThomasAndStereo yes Topping Pre 90. Ordered from APOS. There is a review here (the only review) that made it seem so highly competent as a preamp. What drew me is the tremendous numbers, take your pick, 145dB dynamic range, 50 volts output, etc. I figure the Doge 7 is where I can get tubes into the equation.

[@Audfile]

@@ThomasAndStereo Pre 90.. wow! 👍 👌 👏 😀

[@rlowes]

Thomas is it a Freya or Freya+ ? I have owned both and the Freya+ is definitely better for not much more money. Definitely worth the upgrade.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

First Gen Freya. I would have asked to review the Freya+ but I want to spend time trying to discover new hidden gems instead.

[@budgetaudiophilelife-long5461]

👍 ANOTHER GREAT REVIEW AND BALANCED WITH YOUR AUDIENCE IN MIND 😊. Talk ,talk Talk.......but if you can get them to taste it ....😍😍😍

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks for watching.

[@user-yr7iz4ti3l]

I know this is an older thread but I’m curious how you would compare the Hegel P30 vs Moon 740 head to head.

[@goodsound4756]

With hundreds or even thousands of different hifi and high end gear brands, I could follow 10 different reviewers on KZbin without ever seeing the same unit reviewed twice (in theory). In reality some brands have noticeable more coverage than others (f.i. Hegel or Denafrips or Q-Acustics). And I wonder if this is just pure coincidence or the reason that some brands are more willingly to send KZbinr reviewer units, because they understood that this social media channel is as important as reviews in printed magazines. I vote for the latter.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Well, Denafrips and Q Acoustics marketing team actively reach out to KZbinrs.

[@svanduffel]

Thank you so much for yet another very informative video. I didn't get the brand name of those speakers you mentioned in the video ...the ones coupled to the Rowland amplifiers.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Those are Raidho D3. I made 2 videos on it a long time ago. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJbHg4dpmah3pM0 kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnLEq2mdZq9pn5I

[@klaymoon1]

Great video. But, doesn’t Lumin power amp work best with directly with Lumin DAC without any preamp in between?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

For me it was too revealing. Ok for people who like that kind of sound.

[@ohiphotopro]

Great review as always. Would be so cool to hear your thoughts on Modwright preamp that you mentioned.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks, I did mention about it quickly in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4q6fKameclsl7c

[@ohiphotopro]

Thank you!

[@silviopimentel7247]

I love it Thomas ✌🙏

[@mikrophonie5633]

Why do they take their name from a famous German philosopher? If Hegel were alive today, he would undoubtedly think it the height of foolishness to pay $9000 for a pre-amp.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

No idea but I bet if Hegel is alive today, he would also think owning a $300k Ferrari is crazy, or a $20k Rolex, or a ....

[@jessyszabo148]

Sometimes more than one person has the same name! I doubt they're named after the philosopher.

[@nc3419]

@@ThomasAndStereo If Hegel were alive today, he'd have alot of critical things to say about human society today...but he would be an audiophile and an owner of Hegel products.

[@mikrophonie5633]

@@richard128 Doesn't say where The Hegel Band got their name. Most likely from Hegel the philosopher.

[@violin-schwerin]

I can also recommend croft acoustics micro25 standard or Phono with a very good mm stage, extremely good value

[@maheeinfy13]

Hey thomas, can u make a video on how you listen to your system(mornings vs evenings vs night, any preparation or lack of it, drinks etc) and tips to truly listen.

[@coreyhurst469]

Hi Thomas. Here is an interesting question. I bought the Freya + based on your reviews and I’m quite happy with it. What amp do you think would be a magical pairing with this tube pre? I’m thinking the Kinki studio power amp. I would love to hear your thoughts.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks Corey. I remember the Freya paired well with all the amps I tried with it. I have never tried the Kinki studio power amp so I don't know. Sorry.

[@astolatpere11]

Your vids are getting better and better! Can you talk about, in a time when going to a hifi store to listen to top notch systems is becoming harder and harder, how you know if your system sounds good when it is difficult to compare to other systems. Thanks so much.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

If you have nothing to compare to, it is hard to tell. You can go listen to 'normal' systems especially these days they are so good. Ask yourself if the tone is pleasing and if you can point to separate instruments in the soundstage? Is it 3D? Your system needs to do a minimum of all these to be considered 'audiophile' level, well at least to me.

[@astolatpere11]

@@ThomasAndStereo I love my hifi and regularly find myself playing just 1 more lp side. Then maybe another, after already listening for a couple of hours. I was wondering what those new to the hobby can do. You have to have a basis of comparison to recognize true hifi, maybe? Sad that hifi stores are going away.

[@petewoodroffemusic]

Emperor's Old Clothes! Diminishing returns, personal hearing (ie age, sex etc etc) and most importantly source!!!

[@iampuzzleman282]

Nice wood on ur spkrs, really nice

[@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120]

Thanks Thomas Geez i have learned alot from you !! We Appricate all your hard work you put into your videos !

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Hey Tee-Jay, thanks for dropping by again. I would not say I am teaching anything , I am just having fun with Hifi and chatting with you guys.

[@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120]

@@ThomasAndStereo Its funny how you talk about the top end being smooth with the pre amp and this helps alot with speakers that tend to be more lively and still getting very good clarity ( Balancing) I got about a $3500.00 Front end pre/amp thats a bit rolled off more roundness i guess but the speakers i am using are a lil forward (horn E.Z.) and this pre/amp set up smooths them out very well Audiolab 6000a/8300xp love big amps at low volume bass that has torque weight fullness 😆

[@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120]

One last thing have you tried the Pathos MK11 hybrid Integrated amp 4999.00 i am impressed with Pathos build quality !! Sorry to be off subject .

[@ThomasAndStereo]

@@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120 Wow, that is some nice frontend you have there.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

@@tee-jaythestereo-bargainph2120 No, but I do have access to it, perhaps when I am back from Hiatus.

[@StewartMarkley]

I submit to you that the soundstage opens up because of an increase in distortion in time due to additional phase and group delay that increases the smear in the transients and the relationship of the timing of the harmonics contained in complex sounds. I think what you are hearing is something added to the recorded sound, rather than a better reproduction of the recorded sound.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yes, it is something we talk about among ourselves that the soundstage can be artificially enhanced with audiophile gear but it is what we as a group chase after. I fall in the camp where I chase after what is pleasing to my ears as opposed to what is Accurate. Either way is fine as long as we are aware.

[@StewartMarkley]

@@ThomasAndStereo I have to admit that I am surprised by your response. I am with you about chasing after what is pleasing rather than accurate and am also a proponent of using EQ to get the sound that I prefer rather than being concerned about accuracy or "hearing what the artist intended" as that is not possible anyway. Having worked in the recording industry in the past, I realized long ago that it's all about getting the sound we like, whoever that may be.

[@hushpuppykl]

Hegel P30 vs Cary Audio SLP-05. Tube vs Solid State 😈 btw ... great review as usual!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks, I think the SLP-05 is a legendary tube preamp!

[@hushpuppykl]

@@ThomasAndStereo ... and since both kinda in same price range it would be fun to compare them. Not to see which is better but a mere comparison. 😬

[@robk5745]

Hahahah 10k cereal box. Glad the sound represents the price tag. Curious how it would compete with a comparable pass labs preamp.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

One day, I will have to try a passlab preamp to know. Hopefully soon.

[@robk5745]

@@ThomasAndStereo would be really cool if you did! You’re the best Thomas.

[@11RESERVERED]

@thomasandstereo I ended up picking up a pair of Rogue M180s and I find they are lacking bass compared to my Hegel H90 on my Cornwall IVs. I saw a used Hegel P20 or P30. Do you think they would be a good choice with tube amps and for adding bass? Thank you!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

@11RESERVERED I don't think the P20 or 30 would boost the bass a lot, if they did, it means it is a very colored preamp. You might get tighter or faster bass, but it should not be more bass.

[@11RESERVERED]

@@ThomasAndStereo Thank you for the response, its because I am using a Topping Pre and many that Ive asked thinks its due to that. And suggest a better pre. Stuck betweena Rogue Rp7, the Hegel pres, Acoustic Invader or the Denafrips ones. And while the detail is astounding, the bass doesnt have authority like the Hegel. Even though its 3x the wattage.

[@CyberBeep_kenshi]

On the subject of preamps:) i am looking to replace mine. The matching poweramp died and got a good sounding replacement. But the pre is getting old. In the budget range of 1500 - 2500 (approx) its hard to find something (with google or shops that only suggest their usual brands). Looking for stereo, Pref with a dac OR without but then budget needs to incl. A dac ( 3x opt. Inputs). Challenge? Lets hear your ideas:-)))) My current set is: Marantz av8003 (the oldy) Arcam pa240 poweramp Monitor studio gx200 gold speakers Also getting a bluesound node 2i, qubos or tidal, listen frst;) Happy puzzling

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Wait for my Doge 8 review, but it will probably be 4 to 6 months. Jay might publish his way earlier.

[@CyberBeep_kenshi]

@@ThomasAndStereo cool, i will look it up:) Enjoying my brand new bluesound node2i in the meantime, so much music! My hobby reemerged after a number of years, i got some catching up to do 😁

[@klaymoon1]

If you like Hegel sounds, I think you need to try H30 - not as a mono configuration but as the stereo amp configuration. I wish Hagel will send H30 to you, so you can compare it to your Lumin power amp. Or, do you already have H30? I think I might have seen it in the background.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

In the video, MR DIY has the Hegel H30. Very nice amp. We did compare it to the Lumin. No clear winner but if I remember what my friend told me, the bass was better with the Lumin. (I did not hear it myself due to COVID situation)

[@klaymoon1]

@@ThomasAndStereo Wow, Lumin is that good!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

@@klaymoon1 Well it is about the same price as the Hegel H30.

[@klaymoon1]

@@ThomasAndStereo Wow, now that's more shocking! :)

[@bencausey]

Question should be “do you LIKE it 10 times as much”. Maybe so.

[@beslemeto]

Question is do i have 10 times the money it costs.

[@ajitvetha]

How does p30 measure vs Rotel 1590 MK 2

[@LuxAudio389]

That table is a great 💡. Doug DeMuro has his Doug score for the cars he reviews. Can you upload it in the description for download? As for MR. DIY, did you lend him your Lumin Amp so he can hear if it's better than his Hegel amp?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

He did and Lumin does some stuff better. No clear winner. For the excel file, it is best not to have it circulate on the net because some people will use it as absolute without understanding that it is specific to Mr. Quad's setup.

[@Danexi223]

Hello, Thomas. Thanks for your very interesting reviews. After reviewing the little valve preamplifier and this one, which one do you think it sounds better in an overall terms? I don't ask about physics, components or whatever; I only ask when you close your eyes and listen. Thanks!

[@ThomasAndStereo]

You mean the valve Freya? Not in the same league, the P30 is at least 2 levels up in terms of soundstage depth and solid imaging.

[@robertdebellefeuille245]

Which pre ampl did you say for less brightness on focal speaker I got a nain naît xs2 ampl ""

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Depends on budget, I think you have an integrated amp so adding a preamp to it would not be ideal.

[@colinbrophy4182]

Hi Thomas, love your reviews. Just wondering since you use an esxasound dac, how does it compare to the other high end dacs you've reviewed? Will you review their newer equipment like the s88 or playpoint dm?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I don't have a connection to Exasound. The exasound has that 'analog' sound that the $1k ish DAC does not have. Only the Meitner DAC I tried at more than double its price was able to beat it.

[@ricketycricket4818]

Thomas, thanks for all of your wonderful reviews. I just subscribed to your channel. Can you recommend a different cheap pre amp? The Freya is no longer in production. I have b&w 603 s2 and xtz amp. Thanks

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I have not heard it yet, but people gave good comments on the Musical Paradise new preamp, go check it and research it. Email them and ask them. Perhaps you can suggest to them to send me one for review.

[@ricketycricket4818]

@@ThomasAndStereo Thanks so much for taking your time to reply. I appreciate the recommendation. I’ll research it and I’ll also recommend that they send you one for review.

[@howtomakeyourownmusic8084]

How would the P30 and Lumin amp compare to the sound of the TDAI-3400 you reviewed?

[@howtomakeyourownmusic8084]

And I wonder how the TDAI-3400 would sound with the P30 as the preamp to the Lyngdorf using Room Perfect and then out to the Lumin, could this be done? If yes, would love to see a review on that 🙂

[@lukaszx5271]

Hi Thomas I wish You could review all of classical amplifier , that would be fantastic. I looking forward always a new video, made by You. Simply You are doing amazing job. Wanted ask You, have You had a chance to compered schiit saga + vs schiit Freya? I used to have saga , and I was impressed with it. I am thinking to going back to this one or buying saga again. All the best Lukas

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Thanks, I never heard the Saga so I don't know the difference. Sorry.

[@gino3286]

Hi Thomas ... always remember ... the look can be deceiving ... like the famous wolf in Little Red Riding Hood novel ... then the track chosen for the demo ... it sounds to me heavily processed/distorted ? maybe it could be better to use more minimalist recordings with an ambience greatly captured for instance. A preamp not good at 3d soundstage leaves me puzzled always. Tubes are very good usually ... but their bass is not. Thanks a lot and kind regards, gino

[@lemanouchecbien1]

What is the difference of the P20 and P30. I have a possibility of getting the p20 at a very good price.

[@anjovandijk9797]

Hi Thomas is it possible for you to post that score list from mr Quad of every preamp you lent him so far I think that it would be highly appreciated for all viewers of you channel..count me in as well thx Thomas and kudos to mr Quad for the efford making that xcell list love your channel 👊

[@ThomasAndStereo]

The problem is that once that excel file gets on to the internet, people might start considering it as absolute. To understand the file, a bit of context is needed. For example, even if some preamp score higher, it does not mean Mr Quad likes it the best. Not to mention it is only true in his system because once we took it to another system, it is a different story. The list goes on as to why it is not a good idea...

[@anjovandijk9797]

@@ThomasAndStereo that's true Thomas and ment for every component review to consider..speaking of components what is your opinion about the headphone out of the Modwright LS 100

[@sean_heisler]

I love Scandinavian, minimalistic inspired design.

[@sean_heisler]

@@jeffmountjoy5212 ah, yeah, I’ve always loved the looks of Primare!

[@wojciechczupta]

I've just go my new Freya+. Quite an upgrade to my old Freya straight out of the box. Let's see how it works after a few days. I'm curious how it compares to P30.

[@beslemeto]

What better the Plus version is giving you?Can you explain with few words :)))).Also are you planning to upgrade the tubes?GE 6SN6GTB are impressive with Freya.

[@wojciechczupta]

@@beslemeto well, it's quite different piece of equipment in fact. First I had to change set of tubes as it was to bright with what worked for original Freya. Now I have 2x tungsol and 2x GE. Big improvement in transparency, stereo imaging. Also Jfet part is clearly better but still not on par with tube.

[@JonathanMoore3fecta]

@thomasandstereo Is this a review of the P30 or the P30a?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

P30

[@hclandscapes]

Love the Hegel sound.

[@hansiangng2808]

I'll be happy if it is not negative return.

[@DistroUser]

Is it worth it? Most audiophiles don't have THAT kind of money, heck the Hegel preamp alone is $8K. So...HELL NO! Cheers

[@wojciechczupta]

hi Thomas, I'm having now BHK PS Audio preamp in my system doing A-B comparison to Freya+ (GE+Tungsol tubes config). BHK is meant to be one of the most competent pre on the market. I does sound more charming, when Freya is more solid state like. Stage seams to be more forward, sound sources tad more tangible and more airy. However base is too loose. Overall the advantage of this charm is less then disadvantage in base. It shows areas for improvement in Freaya, yet I'm really amazed how good this piece of gear is. in this price rage it is jaw dropping. Do you know how BHK compares to P30?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Congrats! I have never heard a BHK preamp but yeah the Freya is quite incredible for the price. Wait till you hear my Doge 8 review in a few months with Brimar tubes.😉

[@jamesrobinson9176]

Recently I took the time to arrange my speakers VERY symmetrically using a tape measure and the improvement was significant.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Nice.

[@joeyd4593]

Great video - "have the mojo, or you don't" lol.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

You got that right!

[@oohtob6685]

Can you put together the p30 and h390? I didn't think you could put a pre with an intergrated.

[@bagrubmeister4973]

Hi Thomas, great video. I have the freya for a few years now. I have been debating on a change. hegel has caught my attention based on how it has been described to sound. It appears you have the same taste on how you want your system to sound as i do. I have focal 1038. Current amps are NAD 275 pair bridged mono.What are your thought on the hegel amps? or integrated amps? Seans review on the parasound JC5 has me considering that amp. Have you heard that amp? thanks

[@ThomasAndStereo]

The problem is you need to step up to the P30 for a true upgrade in the Hegel product line. You might want to wait for my Doge 8 review.

[@bagrubmeister4973]

@@ThomasAndStereo Thank you Thomas for the reply. So you think a preamp upgrade will improve the sound more than an amp? or what about the integrated H390?

[@ThomasAndStereo]

@@bagrubmeister4973 I think it is fine either if you go separates or integrated. The H390, I have not heard it and from what my friends told me, they seem to be a bit more revealing compare to the older Hegel. It really depends on if you are sensitive to brightness or not. I personally use Mcintosh and there is always tone control if needed.

[@tetoqx]

who noticed that the bc accoustique and the iotavx have swapped places? :D

[@wojciechczupta]

have you checked the new top preamp from Hegel?

[@miki-wx3gl]

please do the Video about Hegel H 590 ..

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Yeah, maybe when I come back from Hiatus sometime in August.

[@spadeX88X]

@@ThomasAndStereo also H-390

[@raymondchow4392]

Which other pairings are as good as Hegel P30 and Lumin Amp if you have Sopra 2?

[@rpkett]

I'm not sure I would consider Hegel's to be "warm and balanced." My H160 is bright and thin compared to my Marantz PM8004. Although it is better overall. Better imaging, soundstage, and dynamics which is probably attributed to being more powerful. This is with LS50 Metas.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I don't know about the H160 but there is the older warmer Hegel sound and then the now newer brighter sound.

[@angelgrant1609]

I need to find some silverline audio speakers like yours

[@airidaslaugalis74]

Thank you for yours incredible reviews. Please give me advice. I'd like buy speaker and amplifier. Amplifier could be without any DAC and phono stage. My room is small 14 square meters. Distance between speakes could be about 2 meters and same distance for listening position. I like holographic and natural sound. My budget is under 5000 USD. Thank you very mutch.

[@ThomasAndStereo]

I think your question is too board. Look at my video on what speaker to buy first.

[@silviopimentel7247]

Thomas when u have a chance can u cher with me from ur experience what pre has the best male vocals cause to me that's one of the most important..(cause I'm a singer, drummer and guitar player but love the vocals the most with the most warmth and detail. Thank u brother 🙏

[@ThomasAndStereo]

Depends on your budget. I have to think about this one because a lot of preamp I try these days tend to be on the foward side of neutral and those seems to be better for female vocals.

[@silviopimentel7247]

@@ThomasAndStereo gotta buddy. Im thinking 2/3 grand maby & im not a big fan of forward on the bright side. Sweet mids I guess. I did like a conrad Johnson i heard a while back kinda of reminded me of my vintage luxman but way more definition. Thank u so much Thomas. Keep it up for us to learn 💯 👌

[@stevenbeau6268]

Very nice video...s

[@MrLoridin]

the biggest issue with the Freya+ is the junk build quality, have had 4 failures in 2 years... just not worth the aggravation. The power supply in it is of poor quality.