Heinlein's STARSHIP TROOPERS ~ the Review TAKE-2

An in-depth review of Robert A. Heinlein's most recognized novel, Starship Troopers. Written in 1959 as a response to Dwight D. Eisenhower's decision to stop nuclear testing in the middle of the Cold War. It is a novel filled with Heinlein's personal political perspectives and personal beliefs and value systems. More so than almost any other novel by Robert Heinlein, including 'The Moon is a Harsh Mistress' and 'Stranger in a Strange Land'.
00:00 Preamble
02:15 Intro
03:38 Book Review
09:56 Criticisms
1659 Outro

[@matthew49310]

I read Starship Troopers as a teenager, nearly 60 years ago and read it again when the movie came out. Regarding the claims of racism, you should mention that Juan ("Johnny") Rico is a dark-skinned Filipino. This is subtly but clearly established in the book and neither Heinlein nor any of the characters in the book make anything of it. Johnny, the first person narrator, makes passing mention that his parents speak Tagalog at home, and at another point in the book he relates that he looked in a mirror and saw his black face staring back at him. Many readers don't even pick up on this.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

I hear you Matthew. Heinlein used this technique several times. Where the main character was other than white. But he let you develop a rapport with the character before subtly revealing it. It was genius.

[@elmoteroloco]

I read the book a few times and I don't remember the mirror scene, anyway, it's been something like twenty years since I last reread it (and as I said before, my book is a translation, which is not the best option, logically) I also think I remember a scene similar to the one described in Friday (?). What I do remember is the comment about Tagalog and the palpable indifference regarding race and gender.

[@DonFletcher]

Starships Troopers is in my top 5 books of all time. I love the political theory parts of the book. It is so much more than an adventure story. It makes me think.Which is something I enjoy in a book. It may not be for everyone, but I think it is one of the more important of the 20th Century.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

I love the discourse too Don! Good stuff!

[@andrewfleming8103]

I agree. I enjoyed the political theory when I was 13 and still do today (probably more so now that I understand it better).

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Hah!

[@galenzellars6971]

I remember reading this novel several times in the now distant days of my youth. The middle part I found to be thought provoking, and the details of Rico's basic training was fascinating. Enjoyed your review.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Thank you Zellars. And thanks for checking out the video!

[@wooddavid8293]

Oddly, it is the middle part (the part with the political discourse) that stuck with me. It is, IMO, the most interesting part. It is also the part that many people miss. History and Moral-Philosophy should be mandatory high school classes (along with civics, introductory logic that includes fallacious argument, techniques of misinformation and psych 101). Also, I think it is a great young adult book - it has a lot of action and provokes a lot of thought.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

I enjoy the middle part as well David! Thank you for the comments!

[@vintagesf]

I've started to create videos that I call "Upon Further Review". 'Starship Troopers' is one of the books I want to tackle. My first look at it was somewhat ignorant of the context of Heinlein and the late 1950s. I also expected it to be mostly action. As time passes I learn more and more about Heinlein and the 1950s. I also begin to appreciate the political stance of service and citizenship. Lots to think about and discuss. Thanks for this deep dive into the discussion combined with your other video on this book. Well done! I predict there will be a take 3 in the future!

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Thanks Vintage and there could very well be a take three! I look forward to watching your review in Troopers as well!

[@User_Un_Friendly]

@@GrammaticusBooksA powered armor video might prove interesting and popular. Certainly the Forever War comes to mind immediately. Armor by Steakley, and David Weber's novels have a lot of powered armor action. 🫡🫡🫡

[@mass4552]

This was the best review of Starship Troopers by someone who actually understands what is written in the book. I have seen and read reviews that made totally ridiculous and outrageous claims about the man himself all based on this book. And because they didn't understand the book they relied on others claims about the man himself and tried to pigeon hole those claims into this book as proof they knew what they were talking about. A well done review. Thank you.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Thank you Mass! I appreciate that and thank you for checking out the video.

[@douginorlando6260]

This is an excellent review. Why? Because it is well informed, addresses controversies, provides insight, and encourages critical thinking. So good, I hit the subscribe button. I read this book once at a very young age around 1965 and unlike most books, a lot of it stuck with me. I recall a humorous scene but not 100% sure it came from Starship Troopers (so many amputations of arms from a battle, that someone ended up with 2 left arms due to a shortage of right arms for grafting. Now knowing Heinlein was drawing from his own military background, I see that as typical Catch 22 style Joseph Heller military humor.). The power armor was a central focus of the book for me, maybe because it appealed to a juvenile sense of invincibility and empowerment; protecting the volume of self with a seamless protective barrier covering every square inch of surface. Later in life it gave the concept of Gaussian flux mathematics in science an intuitive feel. I think the political system was Heinlein’s solution to the 2 biggest flaws of democracy; uninformed voters lacking wisdom & lacking a sense of protecting the system of democracy, and money used to influence voters/politicians for selfish purposes. I never saw it as being fascist, authoritarianism yes, but fascist, communist, unbridled capitalist, selfish no. In fact the authoritarianism was only applied to fiercely maintaining a government that addresses the common good and diligently prevents this altruistic ideal from self serving forces of human nature (be it an individual or be it a group of individuals who would join together and to use the government power to selfishly usurp the common good). The rights that went with Citizenship were limited to government, not economics. Citizenship was restricted to those who had served a career because that loyalty/sense of group identity/ willingness to sacrifice self interests for the sake of the common good prevented selfishness and selfish cliques from having space to grow.(ergo, the dedication to the Pacific war hero). It is Heinlein’s idealistic approach to a government for the common good. I find it fascinating to see the perspective change that comes from a lifetime of experience versus an adolescent reading of the book.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Thanks Doug! And I agree, that reading the book now (decades later) versus reading Troopers as a teenager gives an entirely different perspective on the novel. Although, as a teenager, it probably taught me more (or at least I took more away from it) about philosophy!

[@LandOfTanks]

Thank you for a thoughtful exploration of Heinlein's philosophy, and the fictional "Starship Troopers" story. Heinlein as writer looks at extreme possibilities, and obvious extensions of cultural realities. Humans should pay attention and evaluate story-tellers in their communities, who may see further than those with surface, facile observations around global engagements/problems.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Thanks Tanks and well said!

[@LandOfTanks]

@@GrammaticusBooks I'm looking forward to your review of Varley's novels.

[@RHampton]

This is one of the very few books that I regularly re-read. Once I start, I just cannot put it down until complete.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

It can have that effect on people!

[@secretfirebooks7894]

It was your discourse about this book that got me to read it in the first place. Appreciate the re-upload. Stay classy, Grammaticus! 🤘

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Thanks Secret!

[@ReadingIDEAS.-uz9xk]

Library looks great. Best wishes with your reading choices. Happy reading.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Thanks Ideas!

[@AndrewDederer]

It's worth noting that the tale (and the song) of Roger Young has faded just a bit since the 1960s. It's still not uncommon to see a Sci-fi troopship with the name, but there were details to Young's Story that may have complicated things. Yes Young WAS a Private when he won the MOH, BUT he had been a platoon leader leading up to that. In fact he had been busted to private AT HIS OWN REQUEST (not that unusual in WWII for NCOs) he had a bad case of "artillery ears" and was afraid that his bad hearing would get someone in his unit killed. Instead, it meant he couldn't hear his squad yelling at him to pull back.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Thanks Andrew! And there’s a song? Now I have to find it!

[@User_Un_Friendly]

@@GrammaticusBooksit's on KZbin. 🫡

[@DDB168]

@@GrammaticusBooks it's called 'The Ballad of Rodger Young' by Burl Ives. I think there's a few versions/artists that did it though.

[@matthew49310]

@@GrammaticusBooks The Ballad of Rodger Young is from 1945. It's been sung by a few artists, including Burl Ives. You can search for it here on KZbin. Don't forget the "d" in Rodger. The song is actually in the book with similar but not identical lyrics to the real song.

[@AndrewDederer]

@@GrammaticusBooks Song is mentioned once or twice in book (it's the landing buoy's locator for one) . Typing in "to the everlasting glory of the infantry" into you tube should pull it. Also of interest, the "Buckeye" division was one of two (with 1st Cav) to clear Manilla of (mostly) Japanese Naval troops. Rico "might" know about this, but his education is famously spotty.

[@thomasburt4422]

Oh great. Now I've got to read Plato's Republic.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Hah!

[@LiminalSpaces03]

I love how well you display the steps of critical thinking in your reviews. I've seen this in a few of your videos and I really appreciate it! You define your terms, present your thesis and then back it up with textual evidence! Heinlein is not my favorite, but I was still interested throughout this entire video. As I was watching I kept thinking about the old cartoon from the 80's Robotech! Do you remember Robotech? My brother and I would try to get up so early to watch it! I never realized this, but Robotech is absolutely military fiction, in fact, I think it has a lot in common with this Starship Troopers.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Completely agree Limnal! And loved Robotech. Definitely a military SF show.

[@andrevanderpluym4640]

Starship troopers is one of my favorite books. I am one of those political philosophy guys you mention because I have read it many, many times and it never gets old. Yes, the chapters with combat action are excellent but it is the juxta positioning of action and philosophizing that keeps me coming back. I spent my entire working life in the military domain, though not combat arms, and contemplating the moral and ethical underpinnings, and the rationale for war was essential. Starship Troopers has been an important philosophical building block for me. That being said, I totally get why you don't recommend it as a novel for the average reader. It is not for everyone, especially in these times. Or maybe it is for these times, given current events in Ukraine. Anyways, keep up the the good work!

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Thanks Andre and thank you for your service! I completely agree the heart of the book is the political discussion and morals. And it’s an interesting read. Just different from what most people are expecting!

[@bernardkung7306]

_Starship Trooper_ was one of Heinlein's YA/"juvenile" novels -- quite simply, Heinlein had greater faith in young readers' ability to explore complex ideas, than in many adults' ability to do so. It caused great friction between Heinlein and his publisher, and raised hackles among what Heinlein sometimes referred to as "the blue-rinse brigade" (roughly speaking, that day's equivalent to "Mrs. Grundy" or today's "Moms for Liberty"). But it is also why his "juveniles" had such great impact (several critics even claim his juveniles were his best work) and why we still remember Heinlein today. Even as an adolescent/early teenager, by the time I had read three or maybe four Heinlein novels, I'd realized that despite his penchant for in-story lectures, Heinlein's stories were actually _thought experiments_ -- his books were much more about challenging "sacred" assumptions, raising questions and exploring ideas, than they were about providing definitive answers. (It's probably worth noting that Alexei Panshin's Young Adult novel _Rite of Passage_ , which Panshin wrote as an argument against much of _Starship Trooper_ , could arguably also be described in these terms, and is also worth reading.)

[@bernardkung7306]

@@GrammaticusBooks Personally, I believe that for most of Heinlein's readers, while the exiting and imaginative military drama in _Starship Trooper_ was definitely what brought young readers into the story, it was those "boring" philosophical explorations in the middle that brought them back to read it again. When I was managing a used-books store (one with an emphasis on SF&F) back in the day, those were certainly by far the parts that customers were most interested in talking about.

[@saintdonoghue]

Wait, wait - do you ever actually tell us your Three Rules for BookTube? Now I want to know them!

[@GrammaticusBooks]

That may actually be a decent video.

[@saintdonoghue]

@@GrammaticusBooks It would be a GREAT video - for you and every other BookTuber! We should all post our own BookTube Rules!

[@darrylnemetz]

Starship Troopers does not say that the only path to citizenship is through the military, it says 'service'; ie teacher, police, medical, etc. Also noteworthy, military service was a guarantee, if memory serves,, you could serve even if your only ability was to count blades of grass; thus everyone had a right to obtain full citizenship. Also you are missing the fact that only about 15% of military personnel serve in combat.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

I can see how you might arrive at this conclusion Darryl (and many people do!) It's based off a single passage in the novel when Rico and his friends are joining up. They're speaking with a vet recruiter who's suffered severe wounds in the wars. And he's lamenting that the new recruits, since it's now peacetime, won't have to serve in the front lines. And instead will wind up digging ditches, cutting hair etc in order to complete their service. However, this is all still military service. It's just not in the front lines. As you aptly point out, only about 15% of the military is the teeth. The rest is the tail. I've actually recorded an entire video on this topic. Citing all the passages in the book related to voting in the Federation. Please check it out. I think you would enjoy it.

[@WarrenGregory]

Most of the world, especially the USA would consider me a lefty but I still love this book so much. Read it first as a teenager and many times since. I'm always a little bemused at people not liking the politics of a book. Author has imagined a world and put his story in it. I don't find it that challenging to visit a world I wouldn't wanna live in for a little while in the confines of a book. If the author reckons they can describe that improbable world and make it work... Well done, good fiction writing. Skipping past the politics, I agree that there is a whole lot of not story here, bookended by some great action. If you want non stop action this ain't the book for you. I have to say I've always enjoyed RAH just for the way he writes, so I can take all the stuff in between the two big battles. He is easy on the ears? Or whatever part of your brain listens to the story. I also loved the way the author writes the military, his love and respect for the institution and it's values shines through. It's not my tradition so I won't comment on the subject matter there but like I say author does the military no dishonour in his take on it. As much as I liked the movie for it's satire on facism etc, I am sad we never got a faithful adaption , I would have loved to see that. Also just an opinion, the audible version of this book read by Lloyd James is great but annoyingly that last bit about Roger Young was removed at some point.nused to be there but now it's not. Genuinely touching to read so that's a real shame. Keep up the good work, great channel!

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Thanks Warren and great comments! I love the movie but it’s not really the book. I look at the movie as its own thing. Shame they took the dedication out of the audio book.

[@richardrose2606]

In my opinion ST is NOT a satire. I think that one or both of two reason are why; 1) you don't know what satire is, or 2) you don't understand the novel.

[@WarrenGregory]

​@@richardrose2606referencing the movie as satire, not the book. I shoulda made that clearer

[@richardrose2606]

@@WarrenGregory Got it.

[@bernardkung7306]

@@richardrose2606 ... or 3) you watched the movie, and think it was based on the book (which you obviously never actually read).

[@deaddropsd1972]

Starship Troopers the audiobook 📚 ! Classic science fiction from 1959. On West Point & USMC reading 📖 lists for years! War. Violence. Crime & punishment. Powered armor 3 years before Iron Man’ first appearance in Marvel Comics…. “Marriage is a young man’s DISASTER & an old man’s comfort.” - Starship Troopers the book 1959 kzbin.info/www/bejne/sKipfqawfrt6odEsi=45WQXDgLXZSZYJJ2

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Good comments DD! It's a seminal novel in many ways.

[@stuartwald2395]

I don't think that it "drags", although certainly the pace changes from chapter to chapter. Rather, it is a classic bildungsroman, in which the young protagonist gains psychological and moral growth through both action and thought; just having one or the other does not lead to a balanced adult. He gets the moral philosophy lectures from Col. Dubois in school, and as the teacher says, he can repeat the lesson but he really doesn't get it yet; he can't as he has not been trained and given the opportunity to live it out. Later, he goes through the physical rigors of basic training, and the mental ones of officer training, and in each he experiences "eureka" moments in which things finally "click" and he gets the point, both in his current test and what he was taught in school. Finally, as a junior officer, it all comes together and he knows how to lead his men, but only because (1) he has been taught the skills and methods over years, and (2) he is now in the real situation where those teachings become virtually automatic to him. The challenge has made him worthy (lift hammer here). As another former naval officer said just a couple of years after this book came out, in one of his best moments, "[w]e choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy but because they are hard." PS: I am glad you were so clear on rebutting the hostile claims of racism; the heroes of the work (including those who die) are from many different ethnic and geographical groups. Heinlein can be very clear in his books on preferring certain ideas and actions to others, including cultural themes, but people are judged on their actions, not their blood, see Sixth Column/The Day After Tomorrow for clear statements and images on this point. Farnham's Freehold is certainly rough on the racial issues, but I think that the rule holds even there; the evil actions of the futuristic overlords are more a satire on the white extremists of Heinlein's own day then a statement of what black people would really do if in charge.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

I 100% agree it's about the forging of Johnny Rico. Mentally, physically, and morally. But if you're picking up this book expecting 'Hammer's Slammers', you may be in for a shock!

[@DavidWiley7]

I agree with the assessment: the beginning and end are excellent, but the middle is forgettable. I'm glad I read this one, but I'll always grab Old Man's War by Scalzi or The Forever War by Haldeman over this.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Understood David! Those are both great books!

[@jimmorris7712]

In comment on your first posting I mentioned that I first read this while going through Jump School in the army. I had lunch today with a guy who first read it in the 82d Airborne. We both agreed that we wanted to jump from orbit and fight in one of those powered suits, Screw the politics.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Yes!!! And thank you for your service Jim. I jumped out of Helos instead of airplanes....

[@jimmorris7712]

I didn't really mind the political stuff and the Basic Training stuff was good. The writing was plenty good enough to carry me to the last action scene. The politics sums up to me to be that one should have some skin in the game to exercise the franchise, which is at least a defensible position.@@GrammaticusBooks

[@HideAndRead]

When intergalatic space bugs are attacking, you may want a strong goverment capable of weilding the peoples power. (Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan if that sounds fun)

[@GrammaticusBooks]

That actually does sound fun HR! Sounds a bit like ‘Armor’ as well, another book I need to read!

[@RichardFay]

"Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State." - that's Benito Mussolini's definition of fascism. That's not the society which Heinlein describes in this book; if it was the MI wouldn't be an all-volunteer force, they'd be drafted against their will (as they were in the US at the time the book was written). Unfortunately it is a good description of the society shown in the film, and too many people aren't aware of the differences between the two. As for Heinlein's personal views, he described himself as a libertarian, which is pretty much the opposite of fascism.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Good points Richard. And I love the film too. Even though it's not really Starship Troopers. But it's still entertaining on its own merits.

[@lsgreger2645]

I have never read the book. I loved the movie and I always remember being told the book and movie were a satire on the Vietnam War. Maybe the movie leaned into that more, because the books definitely doesn't sound that way

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Thanks Gregor. But it was written well before Vietnam. You may be thinking of Joe Haldeman’s ‘The Forever War’.

[@richardrose2606]

The movie was a satire, the book was not. The moviemeker detested everything that Heinlein believed in.

[@bernardkung7306]

@@richardrose2606 The movie maker (Verhoeven) by his own admission hadn't even read the book -- rather, various elements of _Starship Trooper_ were brought in part-way through the project, by one of the script-writers, to solve various problems they were having with polishing the script. After that, the movie's connection to the novel was more about marketing considerations, than about any fundamental connection between the moral message that Verhoeven was wanting to convey in his movie, and the issues that Heinlein was trying to explore in his novel.

[@DDB168]

I was disappointed when I read it. I still remember that if not for chapters 1 and the 2nd last chapter, it's barely scifi. I don't mind authors throwing politics into the mix, Heinlein just can't do it subtly. Frank Herbert was probably an environmentalist, and that comes through subtly in something like Dune. I think you successfully disarmed the claymore on this one 🤭 Cheers to the dedication at the end.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Thanks DDB. I think you're right that Herbert was a environmentalist. But as you point out, he was subtle. There was nothing subtle in Troopers!

[@elmoteroloco]

Greetings! How's it going? I read the novel years before knowing of the existence of the film and for me (a teenage reader, in Buenos Aires, of a translation), it works with excellence and (at least in my understanding of the text) if it is relatable to something (by antinomy ), is what Plato calls “timocracy” That's come etymologically from the Greek, "timè" [honor, value*] and "kratia" [government] and considering that Plato applies the definition to the "government of the rich**" it is a gesture that, at worst, could be considered a (genius) exercise in intellectual pedantry. _value* etymologically derived from the Latin "valere" which has more to do with strength than with wealth, and in philosophy it is used as a synonym for "moral principle or virtue" _rich** [Rico/s] in Spanish, it is written as the protagonist's last name... Like the Moral Virtue classes according to the novel, the concepts that R. A. Heinlein distills have a delay effect and can make you wake up in the middle of the night thinking "That's what he meant!" (for the sake of paraphrasing)

[@User_Un_Friendly]

But Johnny isn't Spanish or Hispanic. His family is established to be from the Philippines. Check my post for the proof. 😮🤓

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Great comments Elm! And I'd modify one of my comments in the video on wealth. Heinlein wasn't adverse to making a buck. But I think he wanted to emphasize that without strength and moral character it meant little if you were rich. But he wasn't necessarily anti-capitalist.

[@elmoteroloco]

@@User_Un_Friendly The Philippines was a colony of Spain between the late 1580s and around 1900 (when it became a German colony). Spanish was considered the language of 'power' in the Philippines until the 1970s, and, as Johnny was the son of a powerful person with a surname of Spanish origin, it is not difficult to assume that he had part of Hispanic ancestry, even if he spoke Tagalog.

[@elmoteroloco]

@@GrammaticusBooks Completely agree, I think Heinlein's criticism points to what could be called "obscene wealth" rather than capitalism as a social mechanic. Although I recognize that it is a personal and uninformed interpretation. Thx for the great review!

[@User_Un_Friendly]

@@elmoteroloco True. 🤔. However, it seems, given how they're more likely to maintain the customs of the male side, that while adopting the Spanish surname, that Rico's male ancestors were native Philippines.

[@damagingthebrand7387]

Do you think he was referencing All Quiet on the Western Front with his teacher?

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Unfortunately, I have not read All Quiet on the Western Front. I may have had to read it (or at least excerpts from it) in HS. But from what I remember of the book/movie was the teacher filled the boys with a false sense of patriotism (or perhaps misplaced sense of patriotism?) that wound up getting many of them killed. I don't think that's where RAH was trying to take Troopers though.

[@General_reader]

Now you’ve got me curious what the three rules are?

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Maybe for another video!

[@andrewfleming8103]

I would make Starship Troopers (along with The Forever War) required reading in High School English class. I think you missed the point near the end referring to Heinlein being anti your Bill of Rights (I'm an Aussie). I took Heinlein to be advocating a balance between rights AND responsibilities. We are in a society NOW that embraces the rights side, while abrogating the responsibilities of living in a civilised society. And yeah, I've been called a lefty pinko more than once. Make of that what you will. My takeaway on Starship Troopers politics is that if you want a say in running society you need to have put your life on the line to protect that society. Remember even truly stupid people could enlist. The military accepted EVERYBODY and was bound to find them something to do even if it was only being a vaccine test guinea pig so they got to have their say too after they demobilised. I'm pushing 67yo and I would have been roughly 13 when I first read Starship Troopers. I'd probably make The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, The Lensman series and The Mote in God's Eye required school reading too. A final recommendation for Heinlein is that feminists hate him (although they can't justify why when they're pressed for an answer because that would require some introspection) . I think you worry too much about whether to recommend Starship Troopers. Remember that Science Fiction readers trend above average intelligence. I think your audience can handle the middle bit of the book.

[@andrewfleming8103]

I wasn't that taken with the movie. Hollywood nearly always F's it up and treats SF as if it's a sub-genre of horror. I've re-read STs a few times in the intervening 50 years although I usually go back to The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Great comments Andrew! I actually like the movie...but as a summer popcorn flick that I tend to disassociate from the book. And yes, anyone could enlist. Well almost anyone. Which was the covenant between the Federation and the populace. The military was open to all and in return you received your franchise. You may like my video on the vote in the Terran Federation.

[@d3nza482]

It IS fascist. Literally. As in you could illustrate the cover with fascist symbols - and it would be taken directly from the text of the book. Where it is presented in a positive light. Further, he presents it as not just as mere "facts and logic" the way a modern fascist would. Oh no, this is SCIENCE and "mathematically verifiable morals" as well as a system proven to work. All that in a literal lecture by a heroic authority figure who picks out our hero protagonist (read: audience surrogate) as a "correct one" - as opposed to the soyboy faux-intellectual, possibly a Hindu. Oh look! There's THE RACISM! Funny how it floated up to the surface along with the diatribe exalting fascism. "Bear in mind that this is science, not wishful thinking; the universe is what it is , not what we want it to be. To vote is to wield authority; it is the supreme authority from which all other authority derives - such as mine to make your lives miserable once a day. Force, if you will! - the franchise is force, naked and raw, *the Power of the Rods and the Ax.* Whether it is exerted by ten men or by ten billion, political authority is force." And of course, there is a LOT more in that lecture. Where Heinlein literally describes a *fasces*. A bundle of sticks tied to an axe. Literal origin of the name of the National Fascist Party of Italy. Also, do note - that's LITERAL, Ou-Ge, fascists as a political party. Meaning a mass of people, organized in a group, to a achieve a common political goal. I.e. That definition of "what fascism is" at 11:36 - sorry, but no. Or in the words Heinlein uses - "your guess is wrong". Fascism doesn't require a dictator, it is literally a populist ideology OF the people and FOR the people (or at least it says so on the tin😜) - and it is not BASED on a military powerbase either. Militarism is a useful tools of fascism, but is NOT an absolutely necessary component - fascism works just fine as a political ideology and wars are fought with WORDS long before they are fought with SWORDS. Problem with defining fascism is a common one. When you look it up, waffling about what REALLY makes fascism starts almost immediately. It's kinda like defining obscenity - "I know it when I see it" thing. Which is often too late when it comes to fascism, sorta like with cancer. By the time you're arguing whether the people marching in the street with tiki torches are chanting (is it that "Yous..." or "Jews..." will not replace them) - there's already a guy in the White House calling them "very fine people", and hiring far worse than that to help him run the country. For as long as his dynasty rules. Definition problem stems from the fact that fascism, as an ideology - is BULLSHIT. It is all just LIES. Everything about it. Whether it is fake history about glorious past (take your pick from Putin's speech to Tucker Carlson, southern "Lost Cause", Nazi Aryan origins...), fake militarism of uniforms and ranks (whether the shirts are black, brown, white polo shirts of Charlottesville or Hawaiian print shirts of boogaloo boys), fake pie in the sky promises to the people, fake reasons for why the "other" IS the enemy, fake heroism, fake masculinity, fake political goals and ideals... it is all BULLSHIT. It's just lies as means in support of an end goal. The short term goal being to grab that "political authority" Heinlein talks about. Which usually involving force and violent ACTION against the "enemies" - as the long term goal demands upending of existing social systems and norms. And boy does an ACTION of doing something make you look capable. Digging a hole is a praiseworthy work, requiring strength, skill, endurance - who cares if you are digging a latrine, a mass grave, looking for treasure or trying to reach China. It looks much better than sitting and arguing in a civilized manner whether it makes sense to dig a hole. Same goes for breaking windows of the enemy or rushing a government building to "stop the steal". The long term goal being an establishment of a dictatorship - which will then be "grown" into a hereditary monarchy. Probably the best current examples being North Korea and Chechnya. NK being a well established hereditary dictatorship where one family rules all and mandate is inherited generationally. While Chechnya is that same thing - but with a dying hereditary ruler, desperate to butch up his underage son so he's speedrunning a 16-year-old baby by recording him beating tied up prisoners. Supposed political ideology of the nation being absolutely meaningless and irrelevant - cause it is all lies. The ONLY thing that differentiates both those regimes from an "ideal" fascism is that, due to their origins as puppet states established by a foreign power (Russia in both cases) - they lack a proper ruling class, a royal court and aristocracy supporting the "crown". Both need a few more generations for that, NK being closer as it is older and independently nuclear. Instead, the ruling class, which supports the regime is situated outside of the country. But back to the video and Heinlein apologia - where arises a need to provide an apologia for a "utopian" and "exceptionally robust" but "exceptionally constricted democracy". Hint: That's not a democracy. 🤫 Calling that a democracy is a LIE. You know... Like in fascism. He also LITERALLY argues for a "poll tax" there (literal text) - despite being oh so very aware of its use and meaning, as a Missouri Democrat. Also, that bit with the father "abandoning capitalism" and joining the military... First... Fascist propaganda will ALWAYS place the service to the state, nation, das Volk... above mere money. Hint: "International bankers" are a constant fascist dog whistle for Jews. Second, Starship Troopers is a power fantasy - as is most military SciFi. BUT... Do note that, through the powers instilled into him by the military, i.e. the actual regime as only veterans vote, Rico LITERALLY outranks his father in the end. Not to mention avenges his mother - something his father is forced to admit being impotent to do. He cuckolds his own father. Paging Dr. Freud! Paging Dr. Freud! Little Bobby has ISSUES Dr. Freud! Also, father is being "released" by the death of his wife (a bird incapable of understanding swimming - I'm guessing Bobby never saw a duck) to "be a man" - i.e. to kill or die heroically. After being inspired to join up by his son, due to resentment he felt towards him, for doing something he, the father, was supposed to do. Feel free to look up the "cult of death" and "contempt of the weak" as related to fascism. And to end this with a biographical note too... Much like Lieutenant Dan from Forrest Gump, Bobby Heinlein was raised in a family where MEN "fought in every American war, starting with the War of Independence". He lied about his age to enlist in National Guard, then when refused by the Naval Academy on account of his older brother already studying there, he pestered a local senator to get him in, despite the rules. Thanks to corrupt and deeply racist politicians he got in. He was discharged from the Navy in 1934 due to tuberculosis, with a rank of lieutenant, akin to like Rico. Or Lieutenant Dan. Just shy of being a "proper" officer and commander of men. His other brother meanwhile served in several branches of the military, eventually becoming a major general in the National Guard. Bobby H. spent the war behind a desk - while the REAL MEN fought, died and got ranks and medals. For the rest of his life he suffered from various illnesses. Thus the power fantasies, resentment and the urge to disprove his feelings of inadequacy. Rico's father's speech is that of an aging man, wrought with feelings of inferiority, reaching for physical strength, power by force and the ordaining glory of heroic sacrifice which will give him back his lost strength and finally make him a true man. Bobby wrote that at 52.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

First and foremost D3, thank you for the indepth response. I know that took some time and effort to type out. And you make a number of good points throughout your comments. I think where we differ is with the definition of what is a democracy. RAH outlines a democracy where the votes of the electorate have weight. They're actually tallied and counted. It is a democracy restricted to veterans (the controversial part) but all citizens are afforded the opportunity to enlist and gain the vote. Irrespective of their race, religion, background etc. A facist government is a dictatorship based around a national identity, a cultural identity, or an ethnic identity (and frequently all three together). Which emphasizes the group over the individual. That's the exact opposite of what's outlined by Heinlein in Starship Troopers. I understand how his political process would be distasteful and not one we might necessarily want to adopt. But it is a robust democracy which all citizens of the Federation have access to. Again, I thank you tremendously for you indepth comments and observations. And the many good points you made throughout.

[@patrickginther8527]

Just a reminder that in order to get their citizenship a person would need to perform two years of public service, not two years of military service. There is a difference and it is important.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

I understand how people arrive at this conclusion. But it's incorrect. It had to be military service. It did not have to be in a combat arm. But only through military service could you earn your franchise. I would encourage you to check out the entire video I dedicated to this topic Patrick. I think you'll find it interesting!

[@patrickginther8527]

@@GrammaticusBooks I would need a quote from the book on that.

[@b_olson542]

I've read it twice before discovering this channel. I guess three times is the charm. Nice to run across a guy my age being nerdy. Kudos, señor.

[@GrammaticusBooks]

Thank you Bolson and thanks for checking out the video!