Helicopters Xplaned-The IMC Deathtrap

[@thadlm2698]

I’m a retired US Army helicopter pilot and I flew UH -1H Hueys and UH-60 A/L Black Hawk helicopters for over 20 years. I can absolutely say without any mental reservations that Special VFR (SVFR) is “fool’s gold”. You can legally request SVFR but in my humble opinion you should commit to either VFR or IFR; not something in between. If you encounter IMC while flying VFR...LAND the helicopter. God Bless all the souls onboard the KB helicopter crash and may they Rest In Peace!

[@chrisnedbalek2866]

... How can you safely land if you're in solid fog, if you can't see the ground?

[@thadlm2698]

@Chris Nedbalek That’s where your preflight planning (you know, checking the weather, pilot reporting (PIREP), etc.) comes into play. If you do get into the situation you described and experience what we call inadvertent IMC; you notify the tower, approach control, or whomever you’re flight following with and declare an emergency and execute their instructions. Yes, I’m simplifying things but you can follow the logic.

[@Opticheli]

Well there are few things in your statement that are inaccurate. A PIREP would not normally be available where he was flying as helicopters don’t fly in common airways. Secondly the doing your homework comment regarding the weather is also false, where he was flying it’s highly unlikely there were weather stations giving up to date weather conditions. Yes he knew the general weather but I guarantee he didn’t have detailed weather like a normal airway for fixed wing would have access to. A very tragic and too common VFR to IMC.

[@Debkghtulvkfjkjfxjjcj]

Cryptic Vapor Calabasas police was grounded. Dense fog, rising terrain, and mountain obscuration is the recipe for a disaster. Pilot should have never attempted to go into that area. Should have landed at van nuys.

[@thadlm2698]

@Cryptic Vapor I won’t play the semantics game with you because I actually lived the aviation and helicopter pilot life I speak of. If your experience has been somewhat or vastly difference; great...God Bless sir!

[@danielpauly9865]

I'm not a pilot so my assessment may be naive ... I'm so impressed that this pilot and others in the copter were smart enough to abort the flight and get on the ground with no loss of life. Bravo to all involved.

[@Streaky100001]

Agreed, and as someone once told me, it's always better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than in the air wishing you were on the ground

[@DragonPilot]

Daniel Pauly he was smart to abort when he broke out and reestablished visual contact. He wasn’t so smart to have flown into the soup in the first place. Proper preflight planning which includes weather analysis avoids this kind of thing. Regaining visual contact has nothing to do with skill. He was incredibly lucky. Same thing happened to Kobe’s pilot and HE wasn’t as lucky to regain visual references. In the military we trained for this all the time. Get on the instruments, level the aircraft, initiate a positive rate of climb to MSA (Minimum Safe Altitude), turn to a heading to avoid obstacles/terrain, contact ATC and request IFR handling. On top of this we were required to maintain IFR currency. Kobe’s pilot was not required to do so. You can have a CFII rating on your pilot’s license, but unless you practice and are current it doesn’t mean a thing. It’s like a motorcycle endorsement on a driver’s license...you’re not a proficient biker if you don’t ride...a lot.

[@josemadarieta3]

@@DragonPilot yep

[@ksc743]

I'm not a pilot but I can only imagine the absolute sheer terror Kobe's pilot must have felt in those last couple of minutes. He must have known but obviously couldn't say anything - not least to the passengers.

[@danielpauly9865]

@@ksc743 I grew up in that area. We used to ride bikes on Tarantula Hill in Thousand Oaks. Flying low in fog would seem to be unthinkable. There are lots of hills, radio towers, high tension wires, water tanks, and mountain ridges there. Hindsight is 20:20. It is very sad.

[@gmcjetpilot]

Nice to see PIC (pilot in command) take command and save lives and aircraft.

[@trsking]

This was smart decision making by this pilot. Kobe's pilot panic and decided to go through, the dense fog instead of landing the chopper anywhere, safely. After, losing control and descending from 4000 ft at 176 mph. It all happen in about 25 to 30 seconds. His error gave no one a chance to survive. They did not know what hit them in an instant. No games played, no destination reached, all lives lost and the great "Mamba", & daughter were on board. It's best to be safe than wrong when making descisions w the lives of others. RIP...to all on board. Shalom.

[@Bey11ktb]

Tea Santana Ok so from that altitude the entire thing happened in about 30 seconds? Why you think there’s a 5 minute gap in communication. Shouldn’t the pilot communicated low visibility and the need for assistance?

[@trsking]

@@Bey11ktb Yes, he should of. He just panic and lost complete control.

[@sleuth2077]

@@trsking were you there?

[@trsking]

@@sleuth2077 No...but, the details given help to make a good assessment of what happen. If he did not lose full control then, the other, option was...? Hv a great day.

[@sleuth2077]

@@trsking making assumptions and stating them like they are fact, is childish and disrespectful. Let the ntsb do their investigation and then they will let us know what actually happened. I've seen an insane amount of misinformation being spread around and it's not helping anything.

[@keithpedersen3653]

What an excellent emergency plan! Note the combination of crew resource management (CRM) and risk mitigation. You have a bunch of folks who cant fly, but can clear a landing site, so why not evac them to do just that. Brilliant!

[@tootired76]

Take offs are optional. Landings are mandatory.

[@Revelation_22_13]

so in other words...swallow your pride and find a way to get that the chopper on the ground when IMC comes out of nowhere and you are in a VFR flight status?

[@1compaqedr8]

Tom Gulbranson thanks for sharing that story. For the Kobe Bryant crash do you think it had a low rotor rpm stall during the climbing turn resulting in high speed dive?

[@peterwoodhead2569]

Tom Gulbranson p

[@josemadarieta3]

@Tom Gulbranson if the reports of a 5k fpm descent are correct, i would suspect a settling with power issue on top of the vertigo from the inadvertent imc. i cant think of any other way to get to that descent rate with that little altitude. 180 autos in an apache from 1000agl i never saw much more than 2k.

[@sbdreamin]

Jose Madarieta dude hiking on the ground saw the belly of the aircraft, sideways, right before he hit. If it were settling with power he would have come straight down. I think he got disoriented, and probably started looking outside for ground or top of clouds, stopped paying attention to the instruments and ended up in a bad attitude.

[@debravowell8337]

@Tom Gulbranson Kobe's pilot was not imc expert And was not given imc permission. I'm just learning what vfr is into imc and switching from one to the other is very difficult and you have to trust your instruments .....I think. Kobe's death is teaching the the world more about how to save life's then basketball.

[@nuvamusic]

This should be taught in the first lessons of helicopter flight school. And then repeated over and over again.

[@heartlandhawk4513]

It is!

[@egozarolho]

20 plus years flying Pumas and Merlins. Often on Special VFR, often in night VFR at first, later years in NVGs. Special VFR is indeed very tricky, and I would only recommend it if a) your Helo is IFR certified b) you are IFR qualified and current c) you have a good solid plan for an emergency transition into IFR, assuring aircraft control, terrain clearance, and interface into IFR structure and ATC. All these saved by bacon a few times, and allowed me to accomplish the mission. Trying Special VFR without this is pure gambling with your life, your crew and your machine. Just land while you still can.

[@teddymark4324]

9 lives tragically lost that fateful day will hopefully bring some much needed awareness and possibly save countless others in the future. RIP to all souls onboard.

[@jonathanreyna7428]

True but years ago a similar accident killed multiple people shortly after the were implementing TAWS systems to be required on all helicopter but it never was enforced!!!!! Sad sad sad sad 😢😢😢😢😢💔💔💔💔💔💔

[@ksc743]

I believe TAWS systems are a problem for VFR helicopters because they invariably fly low so the warning system would constantly be pinging in their ears and have to be switched off. It certainly won't save you when you're in a helicopter in IMC conditions. In this instance pilot judgement was crucial. I agree with the OP. This high profile crash tragic as it was will have helped raise awareness and save lives in the future.

[@SarahBethBreck]

@@jonathanreyna7428 .. Can u reference the accident please ?

[@azcharlie2009]

Never ever except, or request, a Special VFR clearance. At low altitudes, one slight misstep, and you're dead... Especially in a helicopter.

[@48tama]

Excellent depiction of IMC conditions and landing.

[@scottmoseley5122]

Curious why the chopper could not be flown out when the weather lifted. What's the reason to be airlifted out?

[@helichannel8475]

Doesn't look like a particularly safe take-off spot to me. static-www.quotidianopiemontese.it/wp-content/2018/01/07005440/elicottero-vigili-del-fuoco-2-653x367.jpg

[@bigbaddms]

@@helichannel8475 WOW!! Now that is a whole different picture than the sim. That was very nearly a catastrophe. Looks like one skid is almost completely off the edge. How did it not lose balance? And the other direction he was maybe 10 ft from a rotor impact? Incredible landing. Probably a good bit of luck too.

[@ATP360]

Oh! So that’s why. Damn. Very precarious spot.

[@scottmoseley5122]

@@helichannel8475 ahhhh ha. A picture is worth a thousand simulations! Thanks.

[@ToscaAutomationExpert]

@@helichannel8475 Thanks for that actual photo, because the video is completely misleading.

[@BerserkerGuts_]

Ara Zobayan wasn’t as good as he was made out to be apparently.

[@squadric7722]

@@skyflyer4231 that's not the problem. he was ifr certified. thing is you have to train it all the time which he didn't

[@squadric7722]

@Mook Wolf what a stupid logic

[@CineSoar]

@Billy Hill The problem with slowing a helicopter to a crawl in IMC is, even the most experienced IFR pilot can't hover on instruments for more than a few 10's of seconds, before losing control and crashing. The instruments give enough feedback to fly with the relatively more aerodynamic stability of 30+ forward knots. Below that, you're rollerskating, on a beach ball, while juggling, blindfolded.

[@ryantoomey611]

Kobe Bryant brought me here.

[@JamesWilliams-qq6ub]

Me too

[@Tonshmar]

Right. Though I’m no expert, I’m just trying to see if someone can explain in “Barney Style” (Like I’m a two yr old) what and the he’ll happened, man. SMH 😔

[@jeanmason4395]

Me too!!

[@gmcjetpilot]

Could Kobe's pilot have landed on the freeway? May be. Clearly climbing as he did might have been a correct decision, but he lost control and drove into ground.

[@LysetteOne]

Yes, he could land on the freeway. Odds would have been much better than the choice he made. It was still early Sunday morning so no traffic. The risk of course is cars not getting out of the way in time, a car crashing, etc., but this is LA. It wouldn’t be that crazy that a helicopter emergency would happen on a SoCal freeway.

[@timewill9823]

No need to land on the freeway when the police helipad was right there. When he made the left turn and was decending my feeling is that he was on his way there. Pure speculation but the helipad was literally a few hundred feet away

[@Debkghtulvkfjkjfxjjcj]

Time Will if that were true he would have radioed the sheriffs department. That never happened. He was turning around.

[@sbdreamin]

gmcjetpilot Kobe’s pilot had hundreds of possible landing spots along the way.

[@toetz4491]

@@timewill9823 No...its a mile away from the crash site. Yes he knows theres a helipad there but when in IMC ...You Cant See.

[@MICHAEL_MAY_8]

My gut feeling is the pilot felt pressured by the presence of Kobe Bryant and friends. Maybe he didn't want to lose him as a client? That sort of pressure MAY have caused the pilot do things he would NOT have done otherwise.

[@jukkao.parviainen8669]

Vintage Vinyl This is obvious. You were among highly competitive people. Mr Altobelli was a baseball coach for tens of years. They circled above Glendale 15 mins to get a permission to enter Burbank airspace. So because of this they were already pissed off and it’s making the situation for pilot even more difficult. If you look surroundings the area was not super difficult and the hills were not high. He just did some movements blindly trusting his senses, and it fools even the best ones. I don’t think he thought even to go for instrumental flying, just tried to recover back to visual. A coffin corner.

[@bigbaddms]

@@jukkao.parviainen8669 Agreed, obvious. He was a VIP VIP.

[@Aftermath1738]

Could be, but that 100% won’t ever be proven. The former pilot for Kobe says he never felt pressured by Kobe. However the pilot may have pressured himself cause he wanted to make up time and not abort the flight after already being held at burbank.

[@sharongrobler9294]

Well done to this pilot. Many of us pilots, even (and sometimes especially) experienced ones, can't make these big " I stuffed up" calls and end up killing everyone on board... because of their so called professional pride.. Bravo captain. !!

[@nobodyrobsourtrucks6118]

You should record a voice over explanation. I listen in the back ground when I’m multitasking

[@fabiocunha3380]

Definitely , I watch KZbin videos when I'm tired of reading ...

[@Tonshmar]

nobodyrobsourtrucks You do that too. 👍 ESPECIALLY when doing laundry. 😌

[@midnight5958]

Now all of a sudden people are fascinated with helicopters, fog, and hillsides.

[@soflodoug]

Yes, i took an intro lesson flying a r22. Helicopters are a trick to be learned.

[@FairladyS130]

It seems to me that helicopter pilots in general don't refer to their instruments much when flying VFR and therefore do not become used to using and trusting them. If a pilot does use visual but refers regularly to his instruments then he surely will by habit become used to using and trusting both means of communication. Not being able to trust your instruments has to be a pilot problem which he should be aware of and do something about.

[@chriszbodula1894]

Humans and their egos long with needing to get somewhere in a hurry will always exist no matter what. Kobe wanted to get his daughter to the game on time and was willing to risk everything. Man needs to know his limitations and know what is truly a priority or not. Now if he were trying to get someone to a hospital or had an transplant organ on board that had a limited shelf life than that’s a truly emergent matter but still needs discernment if it’s worth the risk.

[@ksc743]

In hindsight everything is 20/20. I don't think Kobe had anything to do with the decisions this pilot made that day. He had flown Kobe hundreds of times and I'm positive Kobe trusted his expertise as an experienced helo pilot. One thing this crash will have done is make flying safer especially helo flying. All LA helicopters had been grounded since early that morning due to the weather. Had Kobe's pilot done his homework he should either not have flown that flight path that day or he should have grounded the helo at van nuys and they could have driven from there. Complacency was the culprit here.

[@Kamase318]

@@ksc743 ...agree with you 100% based on what I've been reading. In the end, will probably be deemed to be an avoidable tragedy.

[@fcbrants]

I must be missing something - I’m not a rotary wing or fixed wing pilot, but I have about 30 hours of flight training & solo flight (soloed at 14 hours, I believe) in Cessna 152’s. In this situation (immediate loss of visibility), why would the pilot not call the tower, ascend (with permission, with the tower clearing any traffic) until radar contact was made, then get vectors back to a safe landing zone? What am I missing? Thanks!!

[@josemadarieta3]

mountains

[@sarahmoses1910]

Wow, that was amazing. I think that all helicopters should have this technical tatic.

[@island-connection]

Spent thousands of hours in Papua New Guinea flying Bell 212's, AS350, Hughes 500'; just stayed out of the clouds.

[@dent6767]

I was always taught a unplanned transition from vfr to ifr meant a immediate 180 degree turn, to resume vfr.

[@sbdreamin]

dent6767 who taught you that? That is not a proper or smart inadvertent IMC procedure.

[@dent6767]

sbdreamin what would you suggest , keep flying into ifr? That is course assuming you are not instrument rated.

[@sbdreamin]

dent6767 if you aren’t instrument rated, you have no business flying in poor weather.

[@dent6767]

Ok you win!

[@philipmcniel4908]

@@sbdreamin I'm not sure about helicopters flying in tight terrain, but in an airplane I'm told the cautious 180-degree rudder turn is the safest thing.

[@tonymerlot9305]

Could they not have just ferried in more fuel, slowly but surely?

[@lewismarcvs2039]

where can I find this 412 for X-plane?

[@Umrebs64]

Kobe's pilot said, "Hold my beer."

[@rigilchrist]

Leaving aside the planning considerations, eg "use your superior judgement to avoid flying into conditions that require superior skill", it's quite possible to fly a helicopter in IMC if there is a working AH and you keep the speed up. It just requires to be in current practice to make a 180 turn on AH and compass. Unfortunately, many pilots (me included) pull back on the stick when encountering IMC for the first time, which is why it is best first practised with an instructor on board to yell "AIRSPEED!". If you lose forward speed then recovery is unlikely. I fly in Northern Europe and I wouldn't fly a helicopter in poor viz unless it had a working AH. The odd thing about the KB crash is that it appears the pilot became spatially disoriented, yet he was an Instument instructor on Helicopters - and had successfully completed recovery training from inadvertent flight into IMC in the prior year. We shall have to wait for the final NTSB report.

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

@Heli Channel >>> Maybe I missed it, but why was there no time for a _2 minute engine cooldown?_

[@helichannel8475]

Speculation on my part, but this is how the final outcome looked like. static-www.quotidianopiemontese.it/wp-content/2018/01/07005440/elicottero-vigili-del-fuoco-2-653x367.jpg

[@alexe589]

Sweet jesus. what a landing.

[@sirarnie9837]

I am surprised they haven't developed a VR/augmented reality system that a pilot could use in these conditions.

[@connorpaller515]

Sir Arnie they do have that out there.

[@awalker1829]

It is augmentation only. I’ve seen it in new avionics and only an idiot or fool would put any faith in that saving them in a VMC to IFC situation. You have to stay ahead of the aircraft. Once you get into a situation where you’re reacting to the information that a VR or augmented reality system is providing you, you’re in real danger.

[@mikhailhunter5277]

That's what simulators are, like the ones ATP pilots use.

[@tiny_toilet]

Sure, they've got that: Look up synthetic vision. Even a guy puttering around in a light sport (hell, ultralight) can get synthetic vision on his tablet for just a reasonable annual subscription fee, if that, and, for just a few hundred bucks, even install a DIY ADS-B heads-up display with full PFD and/or traffic overlay. The open source software is out there (check out Stratux and Stratux HUD). I'm not commercially certified, so I'm skeptical whether you can throw your own HUD together for part 135 operations like this (and it's more for traffic awareness anyway). From what I recall, even tablet systems need to be certified for use outside of GA/part 91. But every pilot should have (and most already do) a tablet with ForeFlight or one of the other comparable apps out there for an EFB. Synthetic vision is just icing on the cake, unless you're fortunate enough to already have expensive glass. No one's saying you should rely on fancy tech like this absolutely, but something like that can certainly be a life-saver in SO many situations, whether IMC, loss of instruments, loss of radios, loss of navigational awareness, or just in crowded airspace or in an unfamiliar area or one with tricky terrain or obstacles. There's no reason anyone should be going up without all the help and safety margins they can get, especially with all of today's amazing low-cost and even free technology.

[@soflodoug]

I dont understand why eventually the fog didnt lift and they fly out of there?

[@FranktheDachshund]

The first positive outcome vfr to imc transition video I have seen.

[@sbdreamin]

FranktheDachshund except attempting to find the ground again once you have lost visual contact is not a safe technique. It’s not what is taught in the military.

[@cinderella23queen37]

Thanks for showing me this video on helicopters

[@timothyhopper8804]

I flew door gunner on Loaches 68-69 in the Mekong delta. We often flew in scary conditions at night with clouds and fog. We didn't call IMC, we called flying blind and when your senses fail you and you don't which way you're

[@Rockenstein68]

Timothy Hopper I can’t even imagine , Thank God you need it home.

[@josemadarieta3]

shit

[@Hammett175]

How do you shoot women and children? Easy, just don't lead 'em as much.

[@mattwoodardtn]

I was a crewman in the Navy on a h60 and my pilots trained and flew ifr alot. We were a combat sar squadron so not only did we do spec war support we also did sar. I cant imagine flying with a pilot that could only fly vfr in bad weather. If any pilots can answer this im curious. Say this pilot was ifr certified do you think this flight would have been a none issue meaning he would either landed at van nuys and waited ffor ifr clearance or got an emergency ifr clearance and just continued? I know helicopters often just dont fly in bad weather. Many or i should say probably most chopper pilots are not qualified. I was in the Navy and military pilots nowdays are always.

[@graymodeler]

Adrian Woodard The company that owned the aircraft would not permit IFR use of their helicopter. The pilot might have been trying to not lose his job. Not a good reason to crash. I would have climbed out of the fog on instruments then worried about ATC or the owner. The pilot is responsible to know "everything!" about the flight including weather.

[@user-jv9qz2bu1r]

I am former Navy - knew many pilots in Pensacola, Kobe should have hored a competent Navy Vet for a pilot, Best pilot training program bar none.

[@don7294]

Even though Kobe's pilot was IFR qualified, I don't know he was up to date on his cert since the leasing company did not have IFR certification. You have to practice those VFR to IMC transitions to keep your skills intact.

[@mattwoodardtn]

If you are a Navy chopper pilot you are ifr and then some experienced. Ill be honest. It was unnerving though as a crewman. Night time didnt bother me but fog and clouds did. My pilots? Never broke a sweat. They was always right on cue. They drop down and right out of the fog or clouds would be the airport. I couldnt fly with anyone that couldnt do that. Its insane to think this pilot attempted that flight knowing he could only fly vfr. Honestly? I think there needs to be a revision of special vfr clearance because it is apparent pilots dont know their cutoff point. Yeah i know they need more training but that isnt enough. There has to be a fail safe cutoff that obviously pilots are going past.

[@mattwoodardtn]

From what ive read the pilot was qualified but not in this type i dont think but i do know the aircraft was not due to them being in sunny LA and was a charter type company. Absolutely inexcusable but he paid dearly for it. And yep i agree if he was a Navy or Army pilot now Kobe would be alive. The Army upt their training and now produce some of the finest chopper pilots in the world. During vietnam they barely knew what was going on due the massive numbers needed. Navy pilots have always been awesome. You wanna find the best bad weather chopper pilots i hate to say it but Coast Guard are likely the best bad weather pilots.

[@onlytymewilltell]

Question: is there a way for pilots to tell they will run into imc weather PRIOR to actually flying into it??? Or is it something ANY pilot has a chance of flying into even if you check BEFORE taking off??

[@helichannel8475]

Most national meteorological organizations do provide aviation specific weather reports. There is also a quite accurate weather reporting system in place at every major airport (METAR) with forecasts for the airport area (TAF), that is available to pilots during the flight via radio. However, away from the reporting stations, local weather can be area specific and not accurately reported. Significant portion of every pilot's training is dedicated to weather and most of them are highly proficient in recognizing weather patterns.

[@josemadarieta3]

@@helichannel8475 or you could just look out the window

[@SimonAmazingClarke]

I am totally confused. Mountain to the right, valley to the left, enter IMC. Why not turn left and descend, assuming that your location is similar, or xlimb to a safe altitude and head away from the mountain to a safer area for a let down. Seemed a lot of palarva for nothing.

[@Gus1966-c9o]

Why didn’t they wait for better weather then just fly the helicopter out ? Why the need to lift it out with another copter ?

[@katjon9]

I wish that this was the story line for Kobe Bryant, his daughter and all souls .

[@flexman70]

We've all experienced Spatial Disorientation in one way or the other, split second or a few seconds when were driving into thick fog. Especially if that "soup" suddenly comes up. The heartrate goes up a bit and the brain hits a bit of confusion to either continue, pull over (to a shoulder you can't see), or some just panic and stop (deadly). When all one should really do is slow down to a safe enough speed and gradually pull over or continue. I can only imagine that tragic phenomenon happening thousands of feet in the air. #RiP9

[@jonathanreyna7428]

Was the helicopter required to let the passengers know what's going on.. just wondering if Kobe knew he would demand to be landed safely or even possible co piolet I heard something about he new how to fly him self not sure

[@Thetradingfraternity]

For the record, you guys know this is a flight sim right?

[@fotozero]

No, it's not

[@soflodoug]

no, a ghost is flying it you can see through him.

[@timewill9823]

Although it’s pure speculation, I think I have an account of what happened that day with Ara Zobayan the pilot for Kobe Bryant. Correct me if I need may be off somewhere. So... 1. Pilot was was flying VFR following terrain 2. He was scud running and we know that for a fact espcially with accounts from two witnesses 3. Then started rising 1000 feet very quickly, like in 30 seconds, to avoid the terrain 4. While up there somehow experienced spacial disorientation and most likely had CFIT (definitely) 5. Then makes a rapid left turn with fast decent 160 nts and the hits the hillside. Question: Coming down at that high speed you think he A. Might have lost power or B. really thought he was in the clear said let me get back down so I could see where I am but it was too late.

[@sbdreamin]

Time Will you are probably correct. The last part is he got so disoriented he inputted incorrect controls due to his disorientation.

[@memcrew1]

Time Will you can’t have CFIT. CFIT describes flying an aircraft into the terrain. There is nothing happening after the CFIT event.

[@joeskis]

When you choose to climb out of the "soup" (as they say) is it really that easy to get disorientated? Even without IFR training can't you just watch your attitude indicator and keep it as parallel as possible as you climb as straight up as possible?

[@jonathanreyna7428]

So what the piolet got dizzy or something clouds make u disoriented just asking

[@joedejesus6363]

Nice flying and handling of that aircraft👍👍

[@R-L-I]

This is probably what happened to Kobe!

[@zonywest3166]

Patience is most definitely a Virtue!

[@zonywest3166]

I said patience, because Iafter watching this video it took some time; and Kobe's pilot seemed to be in a rush to just get there.

[@jumpropestairs6129]

Can you reenact Briants accident.

[@Ghostrider-71]

This looks quite tricky compared to fixed wing. Seeing the airspeed at 0 in IMC is attention getting for sure.

[@mikeschiavoni5973]

Thats why pilots have many instraments. They are not just there to impress the passengers.

[@chuckschillingvideos]

The "most likely outcome is catastrophic" is a grotesque hyperbole. I'm not saying that VMC into IMC isn't an extremely dangerous condition, particularly for VFR-only pilots, but to suggest that a catastrophic crash in this event is LIKELY is really an unwarranted exaggeration, particularly if the pilot remains calm, gets in touch with ATC immediately, and works with the controllers to get his aircraft into the safest possible place as expediently as possible. What kills in this situation is overconfidence/arrogance followed by denial, which invariably leads to panic and, unfortunately by this stage in the chain, death. Pilots need to swallow their pride, admit to themselves when they're in a perilous situation (regardless of whether or not it's their own fault for being in it), and ask for help whenever they face conditions for which they have inadequate training or experience.

[@hadleymanmusic]

My instructor used to get on to me for watchin the Instruments. Its just that on simulator im use to instruments. Now can s9me9ne tell me whats so diff9cult to mainta8n level status by instruments???

[@nvstewart]

When you are flying VFR that is exactly what it is, not by instrumentation. I was reading an article by a real pilot and he was stating how flight simulator pilots are obsessed with flying with the instruments all the time, where in real life they are looking out of the window more than looking at the panel. Also, a pilot that has not been trained with flying by instruments gets disorientated very easily because their inner ear is telling them one thing and their instruments are saying something else, but because they had no training they rely on something that they have relied on their entire lives, their inner ear and presume the instruments are wrong and....crash. Watch this to understand why pilots need specific IFR training, and are trained to forget what their inner ear is telling them and to trust their instrumentation. kzbin.info/www/bejne/roqToYZnlL6dntk Your instructor got annoyed at you because he wasn't teaching you how to fly IFR but VFR. That means he was teaching you the right way, and tried to iron out your bad habit of looking at instruments.

[@josemadarieta3]

your body lies

[@hadleymanmusic]

@@josemadarieta3 it didnt lie when my first flight instructor tried to trick me into a climbing stall.

[@DigitalPaynow]

This is what they should have done with Kobe Bryant and the eight passengers on board. They didn't follow safety protocols. This is a wonderful video. It should have been done with Kobe and the And the eight passengers including his daughter. You should have been trained with the pilot. To do this do they still would have been alive to this day

[@Bey11ktb]

Is there anyway the FAA or NTSB could put a reorder on aircrafts. That’s shows outside and inside views of the flight? Seems like it would be less expensive than the black box.

[@raj-cr4nl]

Why not take off when the weather cleared?

[@m118lr]

Hmm., I ‘used to fly’ pistons (early ‘04-‘06)...Private pilot certificate. What I’m NOT getting is flying into IMC ending with a successful landing, BUT “needing to pull blades & sling it out”? WHY NOT “WAIT” for GOOD WX & REFUEL too then FLY IT OUT. Surely it wouldn’t take but hours to clear up or what’d I miss?

[@1pcmedic]

If you see IMC ahead, call the flight and turn around or land. If you are transitioning VFR to IMC, IMMEDIATELY CONTACT ATC, tell them you need to add 180 to the compass heading, then BELIEVE artificial horizon, gain altitude above what you know the terrain to be and maintain a safe flying speed to get back to VFR.

[@Razorjaxx]

2020 and we still not have 3d rendering telemetry maps on helicopters with radars detecting their position

[@josemadarieta3]

yes we do. however, as with everything in aviation, its a cost and a weight issue. advanced technology was not needed here. the ability to know when to say no and the courage to say it would have been enough

[@d.m.3645]

So, why not just commit to IMC, pick up a clearance, and fly to an airport?

[@THEMANIFESTDIVA]

I’m crying this was a beautiful depiction.... don’t judge me!!! Lol

[@johnboehm2593]

why couldn't they fire the copter back up and fly out instead of having it salvaged out?

[@seabass22]

Not enough fuel or it was too risky. Plus he didn’t let the engines cool down. Probably damaged them.

[@helichannel8475]

Landing spot was too tight for a safe take-off attempt, also the ship was in unstable condition and strapped to the ground upon landing to prevent capsizing and rolling down the hillside.

[@nickjpayne]

Not a pilot so I am a little curious as to why they chose to salvage the helicopter and sling load it out rather than start up the engines once the weather conditions permitted VFR flight

[@titomartinez5581]

nicholas payne No fuel. It was mentioned in the video.

[@nickjpayne]

@@titomartinez5581 I missed that. thanx

[@Aftermath1738]

Low fuel, and it would’ve made for an unstable takeoff

[@aFlyingAmbulanceDriver]

static-www.quotidianopiemontese.it/wp-content/2018/01/07005440/elicottero-vigili-del-fuoco-2-653x367.jpg

[@ChuddleBuggy]

Good job on the pilot, and great simulation as well. Question: why did Drago 66 need to be airlifted out of there? Couldn't she be flown out on her own? Not enough fuel?

[@fredjackson9231]

Can you not go up high, surely fog is not at 5000 feet

[@Maliq993]

Thats the problem, apparently pilots are not wiling to learn to depend flying only on instruments so when shit hits the fan and they start to climb their chopper they do it mixed visually and instrument based,.. However, your inner ear aka balance system tricks you into believing you are going up and straight while in reality you couls be going completely different direction... When you get into imc you should solely use instrumenta only and disregard looking out or trust your senses cause we humans are not birds and cant make it out properly while n midst of fog

[@davida1251]

its stupid that they cant come up with a better system for flying. Firstly, there should never be a death trap because of fog or clouds.Design a better way for pilots and machines to switch off from visual to instruments. Second, I would think pilots should always make better use of instruments, trust their readings, and depend on them more than visuals. Why are the instruments even there if they are not put to use or trusted?

[@don7294]

There are systems to help the helicopter pilot like HTAWS and Radar altimeters that can really help. However, the FAA doesn't require them even though the NTSB has been recommending them for decades. Pilots also need to keep practicing the VFR to IMC transitions or they lose those skills. The entire FAA needs to be restructured to focus on proactive safety measures.

[@Francois15031967]

A very dumb question from a very ignorant person: why helicopters don't just make sorta "emergency steady climb" when caught into IMC?

[@aquilaarroyo6077]

why didn't the pilot make a level 180 degree turn and fly out of IMC? It seems way more dangerous to me to do what they did...plus they risked losing the helicopter or damage during the salvage. Fixed wing pilots are trained to do a 180 back to vfr but since the helicopter has the ability to stop and hover in flight why not just stop, do a 180, and fly back to safety?

[@dpeagles]

First, if you can't see you can't hover. Second, helicopters should not turn when first encountering IIMC. Turning creates a lot of disorientation and helicopters are very squirrelly. Climbing straight ahead is a better option.

[@exxs250]

what Joystick do you use?

[@helichannel8475]

TM.16000

[@exxs250]

@@helichannel8475 ok, thanks👌

[@william8654]

Why not fly it back out when condition improved?

[@titomartinez5581]

William No fuel. It was mentioned in the video.

[@ezmoney1896]

Why didn't Kobe's pilot slow TF down and cruise at a slower speed? SMDH

[@LinYouToo]

EZ Money I thought the same thing. Why go so fast as the ground is rising in a heavy low fog layer 🤦‍♀️

[@seabass22]

Because slower speeds is when you lose control in a helicopter. He was probably trying to make up time before that, or panicked and was trying to get through the pass before the fog got worse. Just all around bad judgment and a mistake that unfortunately had deadly consequences. Their fate was probably sealed as soon as they entered the pass.

[@cinderella23queen37]

Right, that's all he had to do

[@ezmoney1896]

@Billy Hill 👍👍exactly

[@bigbaddms]

Yeah, that what's Blancolirio said... you have to maintain forward speed, but only about 30kts, not the 170(?) that he was flying. Hovering is a different matter, and obviously very difficult in the clouds.

[@chrisscott1547]

No time for 2 minute cooldown? Why? They were down, safe. Another helo could have ferried fuel to them, and they could have departed on their own in better weather.

[@helichannel8475]

Doesn't look very safe to me. You be the judge. static-www.quotidianopiemontese.it/wp-content/2018/01/07005440/elicottero-vigili-del-fuoco-2-653x367.jpg

[@austinkirkman2286]

No altimeter + radar navigation at all???

[@tiny_toilet]

Radar navigation? It's not a B-1B.

[@Anti-u4ever]

RIP Kobe

[@MrSargenti]

i don’t understand why they scrapped the helicopter.What was wrong with the helicopter? I thought they just couldn’t see. Was it out of fuel?

[@cryogeneric]

Didn't scrap it...was just too dangerous to try and take off from where they made the emergency landing. They removed the blades and picked it up with another helicopter a few days later and took it back to base. I'm sure it was put back together and back into service.

[@Barkingspider]

Why can’t the pilot just climb out if the fog win it hits? I get the shock of it all but if the pilot would just slow down chopper and climb it seems doable.

[@LardGreystoke]

Because climbing out of the fog into cloud makes absolutely no difference.

[@Barkingspider]

LardGreystoke that true but Choppers do climb out of the fog all the time in LA. The fog is heavy in the morning but the sky is still cloud free.

[@purpleraindropstudio6697]

Nice video enjoy helicopters

[@timewill9823]

Kobes Pilot should have said NO. He knew as a trainer and experienced pilot AND in his gut, it was not a good idea.. As another helicopter instructor here on You Tube said it best, the 3 P’s that get in the way. Pressure they feel. Pleasing.their bosses. Poor Planning.

[@nipponhouseplayer]

Well, he was on hold for 15 minutes in circles because other aircraft were busy doing “IFR OPERATIONS” 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩THEN HE DECIDED TO SCUD RUN AT 160 MPH????🚨🚨🚨With Family’s on board??????? WTF!

[@Exploratorium360]

Kobe pilot must had too much wine on Saturday night ! Disoriented about the weather...too late

[@curious5691]

I doubt many will mind there pilot telling then that there going back due to unfavorable conditions

[@dpeagles]

Yeah, sure

[@tuxievous420]

In Seattle if you have to emergency land the meter maid will give you a parking ticket in two shakes of a halal lambs tail..

[@capt.imanuddinyunusshmh.6549]

Nice... thanks

[@10buffster]

Off topic but the music sounds like a slow instrumental of ‘Dance Monkey’

[@tailwheelflier]

Why didn’t he fly it out?

[@titomartinez5581]

C Riley No fuel. It was mentioned in the video.

[@tailwheelflier]

Tito Martinez why not fly some fuel in, fuel it and fly it out instead of taking it apart

[@titomartinez5581]

C Riley Did you see the landing zone? No good way to safely get fuel down in that area, with a crew to refuel the aircraft. Safest way was probably to sling load the aircraft.

[@tailwheelflier]

Tito Martinez hover a tank with a valve/hose, gravity fuel, and done. Very obvious there was some super zero common sense policies in place. In the real world, it’d been refueled and flown off. I’m sure disassembling and airlifting the helicopter off in parts was way more dangerous than a refueling flight

[@aFlyingAmbulanceDriver]

@@tailwheelflier This should answer why... The real thing was a bit on the sketchy side.. static-www.quotidianopiemontese.it/wp-content/2018/01/07005440/elicottero-vigili-del-fuoco-2-653x367.jpg

[@restinpeacekobe2411]

Kobe’s pilot was going 300 mph in these conditions....it was a suicide dude

[@chriscoleman3524]

Is it that sudden ? Jeez

[@toetz4491]

IMC ...I CANT SEE

[@hatborojerry]

Private owners are one thing,if you do not charge money that's one thing.Any helicopter business that charges money must under federal rules have black boxes and other ground avoidance measures.maybe this tragedy will change some rules.this pilot no matter what people said about how great he was,caused this crash.I am a amateur on the subject but I think at one times should of just gone straight up and tried to start all over as to what to do.he could not see where he was,trying to find the interstate in the fog was nogo.at one time he should of gold Love it does not look like we are going to get there on time. Getting Kobe to his appointment was to him a priority and safety was not RIP

[@don7294]

The NTSB has been making recommendations to the FAA for decades for black boxes and HTAWS systems. The FAA only responds when the bodies pile up high enough and the public gets upset.

[@timothyhopper8804]

Heres the rest, you thank God the pilot is IFR proficient!!

[@Endumattis]

1 minute cooldown at 80% n2 :)

[@deandark371]

Trust your instruments watch airspeed make a 180 degree turn try to fly out of weather.

[@sbdreamin]

Dean Dark nope. That’s not the correct procedure.

[@realmen7196]

This whole thing sounds fishy when they told the man he flying too low why didn't he respond way before he crash, and another thing he flew that route too many time, to me this was attentional

[@igclapp]

I think more likely it was inattentional.

[@Allan_aka_RocKITEman]

They _FLEW_ into _THE GOO...._

[@c2protect]

Everyone says Kobe this Kobe that...always Kobe. I worked for Kobe for 18 months and he is not who you all think he is. And what about the others on that flight? Are they less important because they didn't play basketball or win a world championship? Pathetic...

[@12yearssober]

Kobe approves this message

[@captmack007]

You didn't kill yourself

[@vitosmith8195]

So why couldn't that stupid pilot do this while having all of those souls on Kobe's helicopter..SMH...stupid..stupid stupid..man!!!!..Smh... inexcusable.....

[@h.Freeman]

I love cartoons

[@AliBaba-vw7mo]

Rip kobe

[@moondoggy2559]

so why didn't anybody explaining anything? ..what's up with that? cheezy clickbait