Helldivers 2 MECH RAMPAGE - Developer Drama, Nerfs, Buffs, and Problems with Game Balance

Helldivers 2 has officially added the new Mech Suit, so let's go on a Mech Rampage as we discuss the current meta, problems with game balance, and developer drama swirling around Helldivers 2.
Helldivers 2 new Mech Suit Gameplay and Developer Drama
0:00 Mech Suit and Highlights
1:52 Commentary begins
2:10 Game balance, Armor spam, nerfs and buffs
12:07 Final Thoughts on Discord Developer drama
15:26 Pure Mech Suit gameplay

[@squidtugboat3689]

Indy really thought he could avoid update drama by playing a different game. The specter haunts us all.

[@milkandcookiesTW]

it is what it is brothaaaa

[@GG-ou7it]

If i insult my customers i get more money right?

[@AshisME101]

Damn that 500kg bomb drop was dope. I don't think I'd have the balls to stop that close to it. The mech is indeed vulnerable to meteors though. Got 1 shotted my first time with it

[@R3GARnator]

They nerfed it's damage radius after it would destroy large bug hives. Get the ship upgrade that lets you have two 500kg bombs at a time, they're perfect for clearing out autamatons on max difficulty.

[@Charon510]

If you have the energy shield backpack it’ll tank the explosion. Pretty useful for kiting big targets as long as your shield isn’t broken before the explosion

[@Jefrejtor]

Do yourself a favour and remap Stratagem inputs to arrow keys - having to stand still is a death sentence on higher difficulties.

[@ShahbazBokhari]

Medium armour damaging weapons should, with focused fire, deal with chargers. (I.E if two people are firing at the same target there could be a synergy bonus this promotes team work as well) The marksman rifles are *begging* to be used especially for this niche, as it’s easy to imagine a focussed marksman landing a critical shot. Fun things with momentum and splash damage can be done here too. If what I hear about various ammo types from the early builds is true then that adds an extra layer of possibility. 100% on board with the charger critique and weapon balance needs. 9 Bugs isn’t fun. It’s a slog. 9 Bots can veer into that as well again due to elite armour mob deluges.

[@DemikusYT]

You drew me in with the Cathay Gundam and now you come in with good opinions in a collected manner? Have a sub, you deserve it

[@haraldbredsdorff2699]

The problem, as I see it, was that they had upped the spawn rate a bit to much, so we had biotitains teleporting to the group in packs of 4+. And getting hit with 5 tanks at one calling. And, they seems to not have learned to not put out a new patch on a Friday, when maximum number of players want to play. By today (Saturday), the bugs on the new patch and the over spawning, seem to have been reduced so they are doing a great job. But I was surprised by how many players seem to not understand nerfing 1 weapon or boosting the other 90% and the bugs, is the same.

[@the0master200]

Heavy armor is actually good for me. Especially against bots. Against the bugs, yes, you need to run fast. But against bots, heavy armor, autocannon, mortar, and eagel strike seem to work super well. Their bullets do very little damage that I reload in their faces not caring about it

[@user-sd9dk5ir7v]

Robot lasers were never the issue for me. Its just their random ass rockets across the map from the 10 rocket devastators one shotting you. No heavy armour saves you from that

[@mathiashansen9108]

Ive been enjoying a more sniper focused way of fighting blts. Diligance and anti materiel rifel can work wonders with some well placed shots. Super fun until you get 1 shot by a random rocket ofc

[@padmad3832]

Heavy armor is fine until you notice the random crits and headshots that entirely bypass your armor and chunk 60% of your hp. I really hope they tune the headshot damage on players down. It's like +600% on some attacks.

[@Lazarultos]

@@user-sd9dk5ir7v Heavy Armor with Explosive Resistance stat would say otherwise. That said, if it hits you in the face you're still dead because headshots ignore armor it seems, but anywhere else and you should survive getting ragdolled.

[@FunnilyForgettable]

This is why I love and missed Indy. So few content creators are willing to play "devils advocate" on both sides of an argument for the sake of logic; Too many fence sitting youtubers that pretend everything is all fine for the sake of their viewer numbers is tiresome. You're an unspoken hero in the gaming community my man.

[@CoozyBear]

Man the drama in Helldivers 2 is so over the top. Aside from server problems that's legit.

[@echomjp]

It really is ridiculous honestly. We have an excellent game that 99% of us can enjoy greatly and that is getting more and more content over time, and then some extremely niche issue almost nobody will ever see or care about ends up becoming a big deal to more people because of a weird vocal minority. Their most recent balance patch did a lot to improve the major problems we had with balance before, and I'm hoping we'll see more improvements moving forward as well.

[@natesiress1057]

@@echomjp Hard disagree. The biggest issue with balance is that most weapons in the game suck. Shotguns are pretty much the best primary in 99% of situations. There is literally only 1 good secondary weapon in the entire game. A real improvement in balance would be major buffs to the revolver, the DMRs, the liberator penetrator, allowing teammates to reload backpack weapons from your backpack, instead of them having to have the backpack, and heavy armor keeping you from being CC rolled by small enemies to make it actually usable. Heavy armor still isn't really viable, crew reloading still practically never happens, certainly in randoms, and shotguns are still the best primaries in every situation except carrying SSSDs. Slugger for bots, Breaker Incendiary for bugs. Nobody can ever justify using a secondary that isn't the SMG.

[@sephiroaone-of-nine101]

Bro shutup, the devs were expecting a tiny super small community not a triple a size fuck ton, they game is clearly designed thst way. The biggest issue was servers unable to handle the thousands of players. People like bitch for fucking nothing, the devs will resolve everything. ​@natesiress1057

[@natesiress1057]

@@sephiroaone-of-nine101 that has literally nothing to do with anything I said. Not a single thing. You’re honestly a specimen

[@Breakingfasst88]

@@natesiress1057 lol bro were you looking to have all of these changes in this last patch? What are your expectations from this game?

[@beardmaster6208]

The spear can actually one-shot titans and chargers if the missile hits the face. You need them to face you, which is not easy to do on difficulty 9. The problem is the lock-on system being very inconsistent. Sometimes the titan is right in front of you and the spear just won't lock, while other times it is across the map and it locks near instantly. The spear is simultaneously the most satisfying and frustrating weapon to use. Another thing I haven't seen people talk about is the sound cue in the game. Sometimes you just get surprised by enemies, like I didn't hear them coming and feel punished for not having 360-degree vision. I think it may come from the company that has only developed top-down games so far. Sound cues are not as important when you always see around you. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think some improvements may be useful in that aspect.

[@mongrelshadow14]

I use the Spear rather often and no, it never OHK's BT's to the face. Either you're a PS5 player or the BT was already close to death. The lock on always aims for a crit spot which would be the face. Even if you space properly to allow the rocket to fly up first it still doesn't. It SHOULD OHK a BT but currently it doesn't.

[@beardmaster6208]

@@mongrelshadow14 I'm a Pc player, so idk what you're talking about. I've killed fresh BT comming from breach or wondering around the map. I've use the spear for the past week and played everday a couple of hours. if you face directly a BT when the shoot go and the BT doesn't change to much his angle, it can one shoot it. it's not easy to do, but I have done it multiple time.

[@user-sd9dk5ir7v]

The sound really needs a rework yeah. I get that the hunter types or the stalker can sneak up on you silently but it feels so bad getting insta gibbed by a bile spewer that just silently appears behind you. Also the spear has like what, 4 rockets? That's at best 4 chargers which is not a lot considering the amount they just spew out currently.

[@beardmaster6208]

​@@user-sd9dk5ir7v yeah I agree for stalker being more silent. I'm not sure about the hunters tho, getting jump on by 6 off them or more is not very pleasant and can possibly stun lock you to death. yeah the spear can kill 4 charger. the angle to one shot them is more for generous.

[@Troupe_Master]

​@@mongrelshadow14I have consistently killed BT to the head with it and I was a SPEAR main for like 25 hours it has to e directly to the head and not knick it's legs or something

[@leonkennedylk18]

I think there just needed to be more buffs. There are so many guns that are just flat out bad that they could have at the very least brought up to par with the Breaker/Defender instead of nerfing it.

[@Saf_Ibn_Sayyad_Bacon]

Blame the neckbeards

[@NSDP15]

@@Saf_Ibn_Sayyad_Bacon If the devs are patching based on a cringe reddit post I will still blame the Devs

[@GG-ou7it]

Nah bro buy new battlepass weapons 😂

[@viktoriyaserebryakov2755]

@@Saf_Ibn_Sayyad_Bacon Neckbeards are they not? Sweats are meta slaves. Meta slaves exclusively used the railgun. How are advocates for its nerfing the neckbeards?

[@rollo8459]

All I have to say is every game that has listened to and tried to appease reddit in regards to balance has suffered for it, every single one.

[@serialthrilliayahoo]

Absolutely

[@LaserTractor]

Nah, take more global of a pucture Every online game that existed suffered from balancing problems It is that big of a drama (strangely in pve game) because initial balancing was a total mess. Hell, they added 50% damage to flamethrower. You can imagine how bad things are

[@goombis2510]

For Honor

[@soccerandtrack10]

"The only people who should kill... Are those willing to be killed!"

[@nerath639]

@@LaserTractor its also to young They need data ... right now most people are either super casual, farmers and some little pro gamers You cant expect peak balancing when 75% of the community still dont understand how this game works on a general base

[@midnightllama777]

kinda wish the ammo count was similar to the first game, but the mechs are super fun regardless

[@Nolanrooney17]

Hopefully it gets brought up or we get a stratagem able to resupply vehicles

[@ianduarte1992]

We will probably get the repair gun soon too, wich would be really cool.

[@thesqartenprogram]

I am so glad that I am not the only with this take. Yes shield and rail were overperforming, but there are serious issues with spawns (bugs) and AT feeling lack luster especially when compared to the spawn rate of armored enemies that compounded this issue. I really hope we see an AT buff in the future (hopeful based on the patch's blog post). IMO EAT and RR should have one shot potential on things like chargers if aimed skillfully (i.e headshots) and the spear should just one shot given all its restrictions and auto guided nature.

[@padmad3832]

They stealth buffed the EAT and recoilless rifle to deal full damage even when hitting at high angles.(Before it was 50%) So it should more easily break charger armor for example. I have no idea why they hid this information.

[@thesqartenprogram]

@@padmad3832 I'll have to see if that means you can one shot it in the head now sense the armor has so many angles

[@NSDP15]

Railgun is also the only AA weapon that can only be used for enemies recoilless EAT and spear can all target secondary objectives, factories and bug holes Nerfing the railgun at it's only job outside of unsafe mode (which should really be a hail-mary mode not the only viable mode) to me seems like a over-nerf this combined with the nerf to the breaker and shield makes it just a blatant attack on limiting one playstyle, yet a lot view it as creating more for some reason

[@thesqartenprogram]

@@NSDP15 well I do think it was too much in preticular the breaker, that thing was definitely too much. But all things considered the nerfs weren't nearly as extreme as I expected. When I played the build again it still felt viable just not as good. I think people think it lets more builds be useable because it doesn't feel like nerfing yourself when you took other stuff. I also felt this way when I played with the build it just straight preformed better then anything else in my experience. I will say I do think it takes too much charge to take some things out now, for example the shield devistator can't be killed through it's shield even nearly fully charged. Considering that's a medium enemy, which seems it should be its bread and butter that is a bit too much.

[@MrBoodaddy123]

I think the big issue overall with the patch was that people weren't discussing the issue of the spawns till after the nerfs. The devs saw the numbers and probably heard about people getting kicked for "off meta" builds and went after the issue that they saw.

[@gplr1882]

The damn rocket devastators one shots the mech, it needs alot more hp imo

[@R3GARnator]

It's mainly for use against bugs.

[@LaserTractor]

@@R3GARnatorwho said that?

[@brilobox2]

Rocket devestators are plain bullshit and not fun. Their salvo needs to be half the size and half as often.

[@user-sd9dk5ir7v]

​@@LaserTractorIt certainly is only really useful against them.

[@Bullmooseroughrider]

I still find it useful against bots, I just stay further back

[@benvalle8253]

Does the shield have an effect while in the mech?

[@MrTsiolkovsky]

I did see my partner with one and it did appear outside of the armor panels, if it is still effective isnt something we could determine

[@MrTsiolkovsky]

like at 13:27, sorry, probably what you referring to

[@yomuyugi]

it doesn't protect the mech if that's what you're wondering, it will still take damage

[@Fransens]

Regarding flying enemies: Not only had Starship Troopers those but Helldivers 2's big old server connection splash screen artwork has flying bugs in the art as well. So you can probably expect those eventually.

[@Wallenquist]

I found heavy armour to work nice and so many people i see run it over the shield now. For robots i run 7s abd i take the 500kg, Rail cannon orbital. Then the mortar (that you drop where you can and keep it hidden so you get the most out of it) and then i run the grenade launcher or autocannon. For bugs i run 500kg, laser orbital (as it clears nest easy), flamer (it destroys chargers) and the guard dog over the mortar as you will be fighting close quarters a lot. Ultimately its a team gane, you are supposed to be filling in the gaps aoe, anti-tank etc. The rail gun/shield build just filled in all the gaps

[@thesongoflunch]

I thought it was all overblown until playing bots today. When you get 6+ hulks along with devastators on a regular basis... It's not unreasonable to have a gun like the railgun to allow you to compete. Right now we just speed through Helldive with no special weapons, all 3/4 stratagems and we just sneak to bases, nuke them, and move on. I can't really understand the "skill issue" seeing as we're still winning 85% of the time. Nerfing Railgun to like 15 shots or something small could have been an incremental change whilst slowly bringing up other weapons seeing as so many of them are genuinely unplayable.

[@Tryndal]

Speaking of Stalkers, do any of you have any good advice for Primary weapon choices in dealing with them? I played a game the other day and pumped two mags of base Assault rifle into one and it didn't die. I'm trying to branch out from the Breaker for my primary weapon choices, but Stalkers are my ultimate benchmark. If it can't kill them like the Breaker can, then I have a hard time thinking it's worth bringing.

[@robertsimon-kroppmanns7287]

Punisher after patch might be a good option, or slugger. Big stagger and solid range to hit them from afar and keep them there.

[@UncaStumps]

I just unlocked the spray and pray, and man it rips through stalkers like nothing Pretty much any shotgun variant does well against them, I know the scythe really isn't great against them, unsure on the rest of the primaries

[@padmad3832]

Punisher

[@NSDP15]

Stalkers like hunters go down instantly from head shots so slugger, punisher or breaker can reliably handle them when the head is hit

[@Jefrejtor]

If armored bugs are to remain so ubiquitous, we need more ways to deal with them. Whether it be actual weakspots, or like you suggested, destroying their nests so their spawns get reduced. Or just give us more heavy dakka, like the mechs.

[@anthonylittle666]

People get passionate and irrational about their hobbies, gamers are like sports superfans now. Anyway, the mech looks fun and reminds me of stomping around in the Necramech in Warframe.

[@ALividPileofDirt]

18:30 A beautiful dramatic stage death from the Bile Titan there. That one's got some real theatre chops.

[@pvtspartan]

Step 1: Mech Step 2: friend on top of mech Step 3: arc thrower laser rover Step 4: Profit

[@Sir-Strami]

Not the soldier in the thumbnail doing the Eminem pose 😂😂

[@naoura4939]

Most of the enemies from HD1 have been translated, but I will admit that the Warrior 'Nids had an upgraded version called Elites, which were significantly, *significantly* more armored unless you shot them dead on. I really, really want Elites to come back as a way to be an *alt* to Chargers. Heavy, mobile, slow, but dangerous if they got too close.

[@tomrulz444]

Loving the Helldivers vids!!!

[@yomuyugi]

Honestly I don't think the spawn rates are the issue or even the armored enemies, it's the fact that in HD1 we had tons of stratagems to deal with them but in HD2 we still have the bare minimum. They need to adjust the difficulty according to the armament the have at our disposal.

[@jedhaney3547]

Can you resupply the mech? With a resupply stratagem or something?

[@sankhyohalder97]

Nope

[@evrynameistaken5]

first mech spawn i got was on a bot kill requirement mission, i dropped it, it clipped me slightly burst into flames ontop of me and exploded

[@tmirred1945]

They had a very fun bug that had 3 face tentacles with claw armor on it blocking its weakspot and than ramming them into the ground revealing its weakpoint and remaining stationary while sending forward thee ground tentacles that will break from the earth acting as melee walls in HD1.

[@th3falleng0d69]

I was there on tian Kwan and we lacked sleep but we achieved victory and thus the mech

[@tincano-beans2114]

You can still nerf things, but everything should be a viable option in its niche. Right now any high level difficulties are a pain in the butt.

[@Alej0xXx]

Yo Indy see in some game posible later, hope they actually make heavier armors more resistance stagger to bile and fire/burning ground and address the getting headshoted and receiving full damage issue, if those were also part of the feedback. Got used to using the flamer after a few games vs bugs (first I didn't like it but then figured out how not to self inmolate by mistake again), it's decent vs chargers specially if focusing the same leg, half a canister to almost a full canister to take one down depending on the available possible accuracy at the time.

[@jnlk2505]

Some tyrnanid based units would be cool

[@lykosxvi1930]

I agree with your points about how clearing nests doesnt seem to stop swamps of enemies at extraction on a higher difficulty being dumb, though I don't agree with your opinion on that devs response. I think they were right but didnt articulate it well because they were heated due to many karen like response amid the legitmate critisim (Not excusing their response, it was unprofessional). What I mean by they are right is, there are many ways to deal with heavies other than railgun. Flamethrower for one before the patch could kill them, not immediately so you would have to deal with a flaming charger on your ass for abit but it did work now its amazing. Not to mention the railgun's nerf from how I understood it and (admittedly limited) testing on my part seems to only of affected safe mode. Unsafe mode I could still strip a chargers leg in 2 shots near max charge. Bile titans went down with a couple shots to their head. Laser cannon now can kill a charger with focus fire to a leg. flamethrower kills them and surrounding bugs, the arc thrower (my favourite) being very good crowd control and chip damage to chargers as well. I think this patch encourages people to experiment more and not just run four man railgun which in my opinion is boring. Two things I think still needs work though is the consitency of weapons but thats very hard to get right since there are so many factors happening simultaneaously during a mission. One time I'll one tap a hunter with a punisher shotgun the next it take three shots that kind of thing. The other thing is armour, I completely agree it still feels very bad to run medium or heavy armour as the trade off of speed for survivability does not seem worth at the moment. I also agree that it would be preferable to have alot more vareity in enemies on higher difficulties instead of heavy spam, the first game had the same problem, though we do have to remember the game is only a couple weeks old like the dev said so expecting them to have perfect balancing on enemies or weapons is a unreasonable and the pearl clutching over their response is kinda cringe (the dev antagonising is also cringe keep in mind). I sympathise with the dev since I work in the service industry and the amount of times I've wanted to snap at a rude or obnoxious customer are uncountable but I haven't and neither should the dev. Anyway, great video always appreciate your content.

[@jonathanamsberry3971]

That was one pretty intro!

[@almostontimehero5415]

A lot of things got nerfed, but I feel things should have been buffed. Breaker for example, instead of nerfing it, buff the other weapons so that they compete. Sushi difficulty needs stronger weapons when you have groups of Hulks and Chargers.

[@soccerandtrack10]

It looks like the drednaught dlc for the space marine game,but they made it the guns drednaught.

[@Haiphong778]

This was a helpful news update for me c: I don't keep up with it at all, but am casually playing the game. So I like to at least be a little in the know.

[@_________________________7050]

Thank you for the video

[@AverySadBear]

The game is amazing. high tier bugs is not fun in anyway to me. Maybe it will get better once more strats and weapons are in game, but they wont ever be fun to fight as they stand. Especially with modifiers that ruin using certain types of strats. Edit: Also if I remember correctly. you could kill chargers with headshots in the first game with your primary. Edit edit: stalkers have waaaay to much health for hightier bugs. they should never be able to tank a rocket of any kind.

[@ethanhunstiger4868]

Enemy variants linked to difficulty level may be a good idea.

[@vitorporto889]

One step closer to the perfect Warhammer 40K game.

[@Mikester88]

Did not know you could play as a dreadnought!

[@leodoe6480]

The heavy armor issue being meh could be resolved easily : simply add big innate stagger/ragdoll resistance to thoses armors and it will : -Mitigate the meta shield, freeing more slot in meta -Add a real value over light armor If i take shield its not because of the damage ennemies deal but mainly due to the infuriating ragdolls my char endure EVERYTIME +slows with poison

[@thethanor]

Have you had any of your mechs explode when being dropped off? I just saw a video where that happened to 3/4 people right at the start. I would be so sad. Mechs are awesome.

[@PallyChan]

Sister Septicimia was so nice too...

[@josephstockton2813]

One of the thoughts I had on the charger was to make its legs medium or light vehicle armor rather than heavy and make the butt a weak spot, probably tune their spawn rate down too (I've never played above difficulty 6 and so have no idea what their spawn rate looks like on the high difficulties). Additionally, I think it would be cool to keep the charger behemoth the way it is now with them spawning only every once in a while. This way chargers would be easier to deal with, but you could still have the occasional heavy armor beast running at you full speed. Since the behemoths are so limited it would also feel more viable to use orbital railcannon/500kg bomb as well as recoilless rifle or spear on them.

[@Johannicus]

I feel so disconnected with the YT video discussions. Most say Heavy armor isnt good enough and at the same time im surviving rocket hits and charger attacks in heavy armor, wich I absolutly couldnt do before the armor fix. Also as a player that played since day 1 on harder difficulty I want to remind everyone: The reason we had the charger spam was because people complained that 7+ was too easy. They listened and changed, now they listened and changed again. Rocket devestators one shots the mech so be careful on that front of the war.

[@Totaluser1]

Heavy armor with the reduced explosion damage actually will save you from a direct rocket hit, the problem is it doesn't save you from the second one or the flame thrower or bile spit or the laser cannons/tank shots so its still just better to stay mobile and avoid getting hit

[@milkandcookiesTW]

yeah its not that heavy armor doesn't give you a BIT more survivability, its just that it still doesn't let you survive the bad situations anyway. you're generally better off being faster, more mobile, and not getting hit in the first place. the extra speed and stam lets you not even be in those bad situations. plus heavy armor just kinda feels bad to run around the map in

[@Johannicus]

@@milkandcookiesTW To be honest, it depends on your playstyle. When I play with my friends or with people from discord I can run and gun in heavy armor. I support my teammates so they can focus on their job. I either bring the anti tank guns or the flamethrower and focus on their respective targets, so my teammates can focus on the opposite. In the early days we ran and engaged everything, wich you cant anymore. Pick fights and circle around when possible. I usually bring a AT turret and the airburst orbital. Those gives you reliable ways to clear both trash and heavy targets. The turrets is also exellent at being a decoy if thrown to the side or behind you as you try to escape a bad situation. I understand that it is a struggle on higher difficulties but thats what they are for, being a constant fight for resources and time. A viable tactic is 3 people draw the enemies and fight while a scout circles around the map doing side missions and collecting samples. I think its good that people go down in difficulty if they dont like the higher ones. The game is designed with lots of difficulties for just that reason. and if you can manage diff 7 you can access all the game has to offer in unlocks. I have stealthed lvl 7 missions just for the rare samples, its doable but boring, so you can play on lower than 7 difficulty if you can manage that stealth op. I just wish we didnt have to have so much drama all the time. (Not aimed at you)

[@joshmilner4864]

I just dont know if ill make it to lvl25 feels so far away with the few time i have to play. I worry that if or when i get to 25 id be burnt out and done with the game anyways. Super fun to play and i dont gotta many gripes about the game I just struggle with solo xp i guess.

[@almostontimehero5415]

They just added Mechs. Mechs! Game will get better over time. That's how online games are for you zoomers. Half finished at release.

[@DarkLightCrimeVault]

If you can play now, everyone has Mech strat right now. And once you player higher difficulties, you level like crazy. I played one HARD Match with a level 33 random and leveled almost 5 times over like 2-3 missions

[@GabaGhoul0]

would think not being able to play super consistently is ideal for avoiding burnout. I made it to level 25 within the first week of playing (way too much tbf). Never once have I felt that I needed a specific stratagem to have fun with the game and that will absolutely remain true with mechs

[@u-mos8820]

Yeah, I like high lethality but there's just been countless times I've clearly dodged something but it nicks me i guess and one shots me from the damn spewers or a hunter swiping at me from 5 meters away. I think it's how the game handles lag or something as in it doesn't really show it till it's too late. I understand if a dude straight up engulfs me in acid or swings directly through my mid section but if I dodge that shit I don't wanna die from a close call. Personal shield looks like it would go a long way.

[@bluthammer1442]

when awesome games get into the meta quagmire

[@dist0rt3dhum0r]

Out of all the videos that I've seen on this patch yours is the most well thought out in my opinion. Every other The video I've watched has more or less called the player base a bunch of cry babies, and hasn't touched at all on the reason why the real gun was so prevalent; instead talking about how they're glad that it was nerfed. Maybe they should all go play darktide and then come back so that they get a different perspective on what game balance actually is. XD

[@MovingWaif]

More commentary stuff Indy pls

[@radd7105]

The patch was awesome, even in helldive the game is piss easy when you go for objectives, even with randoms without mics as long as ppl are gunning for objectives its really not that hard. Compare it to the extract researchers mission, that one gave you a reason to plan out strategies and carefully consider the whole teams loadout, thats what at least Helldive should feel like. it really boggles the mind how ppl complain about weapons being weak when they picked the difficulty. Notice how there hasn't been a single video on youtube about "TOP META TEAM loadout" because there is no reason to coordinate with your team and plan out complementing loadouts because everyone can (at least pre patch) just bring the rail and be able to deal with anything. The rail was so busted it invalidaded basically every other support weapon, now its even more fun to use because you have a reason to charge it to max and aim carefully instead of machinegunning every elite enemy...

[@apocaleptic6073]

when you play twwh3 and you watch hd2 videos from the same creator while you load battles XD

[@mastazenkei]

Breaker and shield nerf are fine , but railgun now bounces of chargers , so i dunno what it's supposed to be usefull for

[@ridleydidnothingwrong]

You can still kill heavies but you have to use unsafe mode and max charge it. Safe mode is pretty useless for the railgun now.

[@paladinsaad]

100% agree that the nerfs were just too soon. without a larger wave of buffs and without addressing the core issues that resulted in that meta, it just feels like we’ve had our efficacy decreased with no new viable options. which discourages play at higher levels

[@poweraffe]

Nah man be big heavy armor with flamer or laser is pretty nice

[@nadaningunos9339]

For the emperoooooor!!!!

[@bloodglacier]

While i personally think the weapon changes are fine, they desperately need to adjust the enemies that caused the "meta" loadouts to begin with. I find the higher difficulties decently fun in a 4 stack but often frustrating for the same spawning issues you mentioned. Clearing an area should mean its clear for more than 5 seconds, its so silly to turn 180 and suddenly have enemies behind you after killing everything. That said, the Mechs have been great against the bugs so far, im assuming they are going to be paper thin vs rocket bots which honestly could use a reduction to their range & accuracy.

[@CMcFuzz]

Great video but you didn't mention the accidental changes they made, like buffing our flamethrower actually buffed the autom hulk flamethrowers, or the spawn rate increase on eradicate missions actually applying globally to all missions. They messed up A LOT and they responded to outrage and a few horrible individuals by being toxic and horrible themselves. Personally I've put the game down for a bit as this patch hurt. Between troll Devs and troll community blind defending bad game design, I can't be bothered right now

[@sirgaz8699]

This was arrowheads Pontus

[@_Joxar_]

Lot of people including myself are not getting any rewards, no medals, no exp, samples. Can’t play at all 😮

[@Yggdrasill59]

4:01 thank you for saying this as I'm tired of the "JuSt BuFf EvErYtHiNg" crowd who pollutes the forums of every single player game that presents even the slightest bit of challenge.

[@vineveer4358]

I finally reach level 20. And then they nerf the railgun the next day. . . . Guess I continue doing what I was doing! Grenaaaaades!

[@corpsefoot758]

They can always bump it back up a bit later, never fear🫡

[@stallker3000]

They nerfed "safe" mod fire. They did not touched "unsafe".

[@galviust6243]

I’m really glad that railgun got nerfed, it was far too good and now it’s still really good but recoilless and SPEAR are useful

[@BaxstabberzZ]

For me all they did was raise the skillcap for the railgun. Unsafe mode lets go! Also anti material rifle on bots is enough.

[@Crimmo877]

Just a PSA, you dont have to play on difficulty 9 with a railgun and shield pack because you saw your favourite twitch streamer doing it. Play on 5-7 and enjoy fun and varied builds. Or jump in with your noob mates and enjoy being the hero. I dont get this need to follow meta builds and play every game on max difficulty. If you think about it, games usually arent actually designed with those top difficulty settings in mind, and they are rarely balanced for it, they just provide it because its easy to tweak up some arbitrary difficulty modifiers for ppl who hate themselves.

[@rmmorang2134]

Mech suit go BRRRRRRR

[@rmmorang2134]

guess ill also put more here. One way to make the personal shields less impactful would be to make medium and heavy armors actually useful. If im trading stamina and speed to be more tanky, i should be able to shug off an attack which would one shot someone in light armor. Less one shots would mean i could throw on heavy armor and open up a stratagem for a different CD.

[@togethergutlesss]

i hope in the future they rebalance rocket devastators i sware they are the one mob i die to the most on the robot maps they just one shot everything and if you some how survive the first hit you get rag-dolled into another missile like a pin ball, somehow since the update they seem alot better at killing me lol i would be fine with it if they did 3 quarter's of my hp i could live with that because they shoot rockets so fast and there is no skill involved with them other than kill them first or you die.

[@JordanR]

Let's be honest and this is the real truth: Fans are great, passionate people who are a lot of fun to interact with. But they're also selfish, whinging, entitled, ignorant little heels who love to throw punches, but will scream and wail when someone swings back. There is almost nothing worse than a fan and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.

[@Michael.Virtus]

Impressively impeccable analysis.

[@lupisvolk2420]

My issue with the balance patch was theit rationale and the fact they double and tripled down on it.

[@izumolee6714]

To be honest the amount of bugs in difficulty 8-9 is quite accurate if they are taking inspirations from Starship Troopers. Of course you are going to get over run. Granted i agree that the amount of spawn is little over tuned with the lack of variety in gear to deal with them but with the inclusion of the mech the playing field has been improved. Once more equipment is added into the game the ease of being able to clear 8-9 will probably be easier.....but that is a fine line cause if you make it too easy than we will have players complain. Make it too hard & players are going to complain. It's a fine line with a live service game like this cause anything Arrowhead does will be looked at with a microscope by the community.

[@padmad3832]

7-9 are hard if you want to fight the enemies in any way, but easy if you just run away, kite and hide from the enemies for 40 minutes. Even when extracting you can just lie down in a corner unless it's all flat ground. And running away and hiding gets boring quite fast.

[@Kollektivable]

I found it not that bad what the devs wrote... The rest i agree with indy.

[@whistlingsongs1727]

Tidy work Helldiver. That’s some white hot freedom

[@Dirttinator]

If you have a good squad buggs is easier for me and my friends group than bots! Flamethrower got buffed and killing a charger with it is pretty easy, you need less than one canister now! So i really don't understand why buggs are unfair. Outrunning them is easy since they can't shoot back. And the focus of the missions isn't on killing everything, only on completing objectives. So if i airstrike the right spot i can clear one bugg nest without firing one shot. After that you run to the next objective and only fight if you are forced to! Wich happens often enough anyway :D Fighting bots makes killing erverything easier, without a commisar they can't call reinforcments and if you destroy the factories the map is quickly empty!

[@Silol1]

I agree that the breaker and railgun nerfs are kinda weird and maybe hit to hard. I do however think that it got rid of a lot of toxic players who where straight up kicking people from their lobby's on higher difficulty's because: ''your not running the meta build, fuck off'' Like... bruh... i dont mind you using it, why do you care if i dont use it. Let me play the game how i want to play it and get off your high horse

[@lucasjleandro]

Looks like Lost Planet

[@echomjp]

I mean, saying to "just use your stratagems" is definitely valid advice for players when they no longer can single-handedly take care of every armored threat alone so easily. The problem is that too many people were being carried through higher difficulty missions without having to learn how to play. With a railgun that was overpowered they could just hit and run with mostly safe mode shots and constantly alert every single patrol on the map without ever using their stratagems or teamwork to wipe out the horde. That led to the horde growing larger and larger infinitely until you have 15 chargers on you or something insane like that, at which point "use your stratagems" is excellent advice and the only reasonable solution to getting to that point. The Railgun for example is still great - it takes longer to kill enemies, but it can still get you 10 charger kills (with some primary assistance) with a few seconds of charged shots (2 to the leg) per charger being all you need with some decent aim before you need ammo. The shield is still great - they just slightly increased the recharge time. The Breaker literally still is the best shotgun in the game in most situations - they just reduced the ammo capacity per magazine from 16 to 13 while buffing a couple of the under-performing shotguns to match. It really has been annoying seeing so many terrible "takes" on the state of balance from the community. While the developers may not have responded to it in the best way, Helldivers 2 has gone far beyond the popularity of what they expected and they have had to deal with an extremely toxic player base as it has drawn in a more casual large-scale audience. So I tend to give the developers the benefit of the doubt, since I have been enjoying their games for 10+ years and they seem to have always been improving their games in good faith. I don't really agree with you that it was a bad patch. I feel that difficulty 7-9 for example never was a "slog" if you knew what you were doing - the problem primarily is that most people just set off every single patrol, don't know when to disengage, or don't work together with their team to spam stratagems on massive bug waves so you can kill them and lower their overall numbers. I do appreciate your take on this though, and I hope we can see some more Helldivers content from you moving forward for sure. I have been watching your content through a lot of your Warhammer content for years now, and while I don't always agree with your opinions on things like balance - I do appreciate your honesty and reasonableness. Have you tried on difficulty 9 - instead of constantly kiting and running from bugs - wiping out their patrols before they call for help and taking out their nests to reduce patrols, and when a bug breach happens immediately hitting it with massed stratagems/firepower plus using things like turrets and the like to ensure they don't just keep chasing you? A prepared group of 4 players can take down even multiple bile titans spawning at once from a bug breach if they were prepared for it, and I have tons of luck doing this. There's not much room for skill expression against the bugs on high difficulty levels if you only ever just kite them around, but I really do not think that is the only option in many cases. Edit: Of course they still have things to fix, like the Spear locking. But you won't have an issue with 15+ armored things running at you unless you ignored multiple breaches without taking them out over time, again, so I don't really see this as a legitimate critique of things being too tough. If you have four players with EATs for example you can take out 8 chargers every minute or so with that alone. They need to improve Chargers as well to be easier to deal with. But this patch fixed tons of things and improved the overall balance greatly, and I don't think "this one enemy was too hard to deal with" is a legitimate reason to complain about the developers balancing the weapons properly. Charger "weak spots" and the back of their leg should be easier to kill, and the front of the legs I think should be more easily broken with enough fire from other types of weapons. Not addressing every part of the meta is annoying of course, but one step at a time. Oh, and obviously they should make extractions easier if you have wiped out tons of nests, even on higher difficulty levels. I know you likely won't read my opinions here since I made a massive wall of text, but I wanted to state my piece anyway. I hope the devs keep improving the game moving forward, and it seems like they genuinely have a desire to improve things. They fixed the armor being bugged for example - sure, heavy armor still isn't all that good, but at least it technically gives an advantage that makes it not TOTALLY useless (can be useful for defense missions for example). Everything they have done seems to be in the service of making the game more fun for more people over time.

[@JPandorum]

Well put, you covered everything.

[@Lazarultos]

You put into words much more comprehensively what I've been trying to say to everyone regarding the latest changes. Yes there are problems, but the people saying that the Devs "clearly don't play their own game on high difficulty" are being incredibly unfair and ignorant with how development and weapon balancing is done. Honestly, a lot of complaints I've seen from the people most vocal about the changes sound like they're pissed that they can't solo all the problems a mission throws at them anymore, brushing off defenses of the balancing as "good luck dealing with endless spawns of 8 Chargers and 4 Bile Titans with the nerf" like... dude... How did your situation get that bad in the first place? Breaches and Drops don't just happen randomly in regular missions. A lot of problems could've been prevented with coordinated fire before it got bad. And even when it does get real bad, Helldivers isn't about being a one-man army. COMBINE your team's firepower/abilities and deal with the accumulated problems together. Stratagem cooldowns can be cycled between players. Different players can bring different specialized weapons. If all else fails, disengage as a squad, reload ammo and stratagems, and come back for another go.

[@NSDP15]

Railgun is the only anti armor weapon that can only be used for enemies recoilless EAT and spear can all target secondary objectives, factories and bug holes Nerfing the railgun at it's only job outside of unsafe mode (which should really be a hail-mary mode not the only viable mode) to me seems like a over-nerf this combined with the nerf to the breaker and shield makes it just a blatant attack on limiting one playstyle, yet a lot view it as creating more for some reason. As someone who has also played their previous games HD1 and Magicka 2 I do know that they love their OP DLCs so I know they don't have a problem with weapons performing well. This really feels like a patch against any sort of meta forming but that's just the way large games work no matter what there's going to be a meta build, and weird gatekeepers around it, nerfing anything that becomes Meta is a really quick way to lose players and trust as there's no guarantee any build you're comfotable with won't become obsolete over one patch.

[@JPandorum]

@@NSDP15 Not true, railgun can be used on rebel and spore towers. Also please tell me the downsides of the old railgun outside of being scary to use for you in unsafe mode.

[@NSDP15]

@@JPandorum spore towers can be taken out by most primary weapons across the map and take way more railgun shots than worth even before the nerf. And again the old railgun was only a counter to heavy armored spam at higher difficulty (except the tank and tower cannons) it was niche, it’s just that because of the heavy armored spam it’s niche becomes the whole endgame. Safe mode could do its job on high armored enemies, unsafe mode could do it more effectively with a risk. Please tell me the purpose of the current safe mode on the railgun cause it’s currently just a senator with less ammo if you don’t use unsafe mode

[@Na0uta]

I'd you understood the thumbnail joke. You are also terminally online. We need to get outside more.

[@about3penguins]

My first game was on suicide with little information about the game beside "doing my part". It was just one buddy myself and 2 randos, and we extracted. The game isn't hard, don't complain about nerfs.

[@eyeoftomato9547]

Theres a joke here about game devs and customer service reps having solidarity with people memeing and hating on them

[@531st]

Heavy armor is ass for bugs yea. Vs bugs you exist in two states: 100% healthy and sent into shadow realm. Charger slams, titans, vomit bugs, bile mortars, stalker stunlock. Everything dumps bagilion damage on top of you. The only avoidance is running away faster (which heavy armor makes worse) But vs bots its actually not that bad. I exclusively use heavy armor (with explosion resist) vs bots now. Not only i can eat two (or sometimes even three) devastator missiles and survive now but i also dont get 1-shot by anything but tank shots and hulk flamers. Since random instakill missiles from half a mile away were my only gripe with bots, they are my best waifus now (and i dont even use shield). And yea, high difficulty bugs are kind of unfun since every single enemy they get is even bigger damage sponge with obnoxious 1-hit attacks that force you to laser focus them and only them. But I very much doubt that most players are running 8-9 bugs (7 is kind of okay-ish even chargers rarely spawn in twos now). And that super hardcore meta breaker-railgun-shield was ruining other difficulties. People were getting kicked, vitriol being spewed in chat. And it kind of felt like kicking yourself in the nuts taking other weapons since you know there will be 3 more breaker-railgun-shield dudes that will do much better than you, die less than you and probably just run forward steamrolling everything in their path leaving you behind to fend for yourself while you jerk off your rocket launcher. So yeah. Breaker-Railgun-Shield combo should've been nerfed first since its lower effort fix and you can do it faster. Yeah, it will make 8-9 bugs barely tolerable, rightfully piss off a couple of people that actually play it but at least it wouldnt turn other difficulties into toxic sludge that punishes players for trying to play for fun. P.S. Dunno about breaker, never liked it (and now punisher/slugger step on its toes) but shield and railgun are still kind of ungodly powerful being the only reliable backpack-free heavy killer and the only instakill safeguard

[@lorussuliss]

Arrowhead giving us the mechs the way they are when they did is like saying, "We're sorry we fucked up, here have more fun while we fix things!"

[@GeneralMarbles]

Wow had completely ignored the discorse around the game till now. Sad its instantly become toxic because of the fortnite effect. Definetly agree chargers design is the real reason shield+railgun was overperforming. Its just literally the only viable option against them, me and all my friends organically came to that conclusion. if the game is keen to spawn them in groups of 4 and the actual anti-tank cannon DOUSNT EVEN ONE SHOT THEM. Railcannon kills one every 4 minutes, spear cant lock-on and ALSO dousnt one shot them. And it has a fake weakspot that nothing is actually good at killing it through in under 5 buisness days. So you pick the only option that 3 shots them but dousnt have years of downtime or compromise your mobility. Funniest thing about the nerfs is it will just still be taken, because that math hasnt changed. Not to mention their charge is obnoxiously accurate for the amount of them you will face. Shield is neccasary to cover the 1/2 the time that dodging at the last second seems to just NOT WORK. Should not be surpprising that spaming an enemy that demands heavy armor penitration and completely ignores anything bellow that while spawning at the same rate as rocket devistators its going to limit the viable builds from the player. It genuenly feels like two different teams worked on the factions, like imagine if hulks just DIDNT have the light armored slit or back-weaspot and spawned at the same rate as their regular elites. Well I prefered fighting bots from the start anyway so best of luck to the DEVS getting the bug balance right. Honestly I think JUST making the back a PROPER weakspot that makes chargers go down quick if exploited would go a LONG way since a lot of the other bug missions problems spiral out of control from needing to invest so many resources into just one enemy type of the mission. It works for bots design why cant it work for bugs? Hope they can get them to a similar level of enjoyable variety bot missions enjoy. In those missions I still feel the Anti-material rifle+supply pack setup i was using in difficultys 2-4 is still viable if I just git-gud. But overall so many strategems feel they have a viable place in those missions.

[@idkdude2377]

The balance patch was a sign of poor decision making, but it was their first attempt, I think it can be excused. If they do it again and again, if they continue to nerf things without filling in the space that was left afterwards with buffs elsewhere, then I’ll just stop playing the game. I’ve gotten my fun out of it, but stupid design decisions will evaporate the fun very quickly.

[@G-DogomusPrime]

Yah the Devs kind of screwed d the pooch on this one. I get they are trying to make a helldive, well a helldive lol. But the rail gun, breaker, and shield were never OP. Everything else was just completely unusable on higher difficulty. State gems and the rail gun were the only viable way to take out armored targets, and they took a lot of skill to use. Like using the railgun in unsafe mode to make it more efficient. L patch for sure.

[@theroguenob]

I really can't wait for them to nerf the mechs and flamethrowers because they are too strong and we are "dumb players who use that"

[@jonathangibson9098]

Picked the game up a few days ago. So good! This is what PvE is all about. Its got a wee way to go to be a perfect game. So much potential though! My #1 question is where is the "Rock and Stone" equivalent. Best we have at the moment is the salute or hug. The canned lines are great but it would be awesome to be able to tap a key and have the character say something *patriotic*.

[@NSDP15]

You sound like you need a cup of Liber-tea

[@thanebeorn3570]

If only it was on Xbox

[@absoluteandrew398]

What I (WARNING: OPINION AHEAD) think Arrowhead should be doing with weapon balance. First, before weapon changes, let’s fix Charger tracking because sometimes you dodge at the right time like you’re supposed to but that dude does a 90 degree turn, and tramples you from full health haha. My weapon balance ideas with *Helldive difficulty in mind* Most Weapons across the board: increased damage to weakspots (charger butts, titan belly, unarmored bug legs, automaton heads, etc) *Sustained fire or powerful shots on a weakspot should have more stagger. Stagger should not be almost exclusive to shotguns* Example: Guy with assault rifle expertly dodges behind a shield bug (the ones with medium armor head and front legs) and full auto sprays at its butt. It should not immediately just TURN AND HUNKER DOWN MAKING YOUR TACTIC/PLAN USELESS. A small half second-1 second stun will do. Assault Rifles: +10% Weakspot damage, increased effective range (reduced damage falloff) and the armor piercing factor on ones like the liberator penetrator really needs to be looked at. Damage at medium range should be good enough that it warrants a skilled player using semi auto mode, making the weapons fun and engaging to use differently. Marksman Rifles: +30% Weakspot damage, and FIX THE RETICLES LOL- bullets should probably hit closer to where your dot was, not to the left or right. Dilligence counter sniper should probably be light armor penetrating as well. Submachine guns: Small damage buff to the slower fire rate one, like +15 (forget what it’s called) and +5 to the Knight. Hard to hit most of your shots with all that thing’s recoil anyways, and these guys have zero armor penetration. Goal is to get behind armored bugs and shred them or fire short bursts at automaton weakspots. Shotguns: Stop tweaking things that make guns less fun to use, such as recoil and mag size. Make shotguns more effective at very close range, and much less effective at long range. Increased damage falloff, but at very close range +20% weakspot damage. Seriously the devs wanna make weapons specialized and that’s awesome. But there are better ways to balance a weapon than magazine size and recoil. Effective range is a great example. Weakspot damage and armor penetration is a huge one. This has been my Super Earth TED Talk. Thank you.

[@leadpaintchips9461]

I will continue to meme on Hedge's asinine responses to the community being livid about Fatshark's broken and misleading statements for Darktide, regardless of the amount of time that has passed since they made them. Those weren't made in a heated moment with regret. They were a repeated pattern of behavior that showed distain towards criticism and the community, was the only way we got a response _at all_ about the topic, and had no apology from the company for Hedge's responses. All Fatshark did was have Hedge stop posting and hope that we forgot not only about the responses but the original criticism. The rest of the community managers over there are respectful of the community and are doing a good job working within the constraints that Fatshark give them. The response from the devs here though is different. It was a one time, heat of the moment thing that they apologized for. It's going to be meme'd on for a bit because it was really a take that didn't understand their own game, but as long as the dev team learns from it instead of doing it again, it'll fade away.

[@CanaldoVoid]

I agree with nearly everything you said, but I disagree with your conclusion, the patch was great, and even in terms of buffs vs debuffs, it had a lot more buffs than debuffs. We went from having 1 REALLY good shotgun, to making all of them very good. We didn't lose the OP railgun, as it can do the same things if you're willing to risk the overcharge, yet we received 2 more weapons, some swear by the laser cannon, I don't have the coordination to stay on target for very long, so it will never be a weapon for me, but we did get one absurd weapon with the flamer buffs, that thing is devastting, you can solo kill any number of chargers and all of the horders for your entire team by backpedaling with a flamer, it takes about 4s per charger to delete them, nothing other than a titan is a threat, but that's why you'd carry 500kg bombs, and that's why you have 3 other teamates. I also have to ask, why shouldn't dif9 be this "frustrating" for you? I mean, dif9 is supposed to be an actual Helldive, it's supposed to be for sweaty tryhards, it's supposed to be challenging, the fact that you probably can clear it without issues with a good team and never lose a mission shows the difficulty is nowhere near enough, the game has 9 difficulty levels, why is the 9th supposed to be "balanced" or "acessible"? Anyone can do exactly as you said, and play on the difficulty they feel they can have more fun with, but what will the people who actually enjoy the constant slaughter of dif9 do once it's reduced to the level of, say, dif6?

[@darkspawnsenior9488]

The game is just armor bloat right now. It's not fun, and frankly the damage on the armor piercers needs upgraded or I'm just going back to Darktide. I live to play giantkiller. It's just not fun here.

[@TurKlack]

Sorry man, but Fans have usually not the faintest idea how to balance a game. Because in most cases they never do anything other than playing with the Exodia Deck. Figuratively speaking.

[@DakotaDean-cd3zg]

This is not "usually". The community has it right this time. The railgun needed a nerf, but it was overnerfed and now we are left with subpar tools across the board for dealing with heavy armor aside from the shiny new mechs. Wearing heavy armor yourself still does nothing good for your survivability. The personal energy shield wasnt even worn to take tamage, it was to prevent the slows that hunters, spitter scavengers, and environmental hazards cause, which is a death sentence most of the time.

[@user-sd9dk5ir7v]

​@@DakotaDean-cd3zgPretty much this. If they want to nerf shit into the ground then they should at least make sure we got other tools that are up to snuff. Sure the missions still doable but i would like to spend more time actually killing things instead just kiting for 10 minutes

[@PolarKodiak]

there can be WAY to many chargers lately for sure but that being said if your shooting them in the head to kill them, stop, shoot the same legs a couple times and then dps the exposed part. i know a lot if not most ppl know that but the increase in ppl talking about chargers not dying to head shots now warrants a repeat of this.

[@kapitankapital6580]

I haven't played the game so my comment is uninformed, but going by your description it sounds like there might be a case of input bias going on here. The most vocal members of a community are often the ones who are the most committed and, by extension, play at the highest levels. If these weapons are overperforming but are necessary for higher difficulties, then top level players will be angry if they get nerfed. However, that nerf may be necessary for lower difficulties (where the majority of players are) because it makes it trivial and destroys build diversity. Devs therefore find themselves in a predicament: make the change that will benefit the majority of players but annoy the loudest and most committed fans, or acquiesce to the vocal minority at the expense of the average player.

[@NSDP15]

Not really relevant here, for two reasons 1. the heavy armor enemies only appear on higher level play in vast numbers, in lower levels their either rare or a main objective. 2. the Nerfed equipment is all end game gear meaning you need at least 30-40 hrs (in my own experience could be quicker) to get them Neither situation should affect new players outside of those that were being carried by friends

[@mongrelshadow14]

I'm going to need to see a source for the devs confirming charger armor dropping in value after charge animations is unintended. It's not that I think you would intentionally mislead anyone but I like stare at media constantly about this game and it's the first I'm hearing of this.