Heller Fake Ships - But I can fix the La Sirene and L'Indomptable

[@ElGordoMario]

This is really cool, I received L'Indomptable from my late grandpa, was looking for comments and some guide. Keep the content coming!

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Thanks, will do!

[@angel_dawn_morningstar]

Fun Fact : The HMS Valiant (launched 1759) was modeled/designed using the captured French warship Invincible as an example .. and yes there WAS a certain amount of "bling" among these ships .. some were downright gaudy (tasteless extravagance) 😇❤ Thumbs up on the tips

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

The English quite often captured French Frigates and repurposed them in the 18th and 19th century. They were a superior design at the time. Bling got to it’s height in the 17th Century then wained towards the Napoleonic era, where that sort of extravagance was considered to be unseemly. Off with their heads!

[@npcperson2158]

The size of the canons negate criticism.

[@msee383]

I love your fresh approach to model making. Martin UK

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Thanks Martin… only approach I have :)

[@midnightmodeling1639]

A history lesson while you review a kit. Thanx for sharing Harry. Looks like am awesome kit.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Thanks Midnight… the Heller big sailing ship kits are pretty good

[@ccynic1905]

Great channel, helped me get back into childhood hobby in my now ‘ middle ages’ Cheers

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Great to hear! I once role played at a Medieval Tournament as a knight from the middle ages hehe

[@ccynic1905]

Touché

[@randalscott7224]

Interesting research and information Harry and I love watching your ship builds. Though these old sailing vessels are a bit beyond my skill set at the moment! And because you asked for it: What do you call a ship carrying dairy cows? A Galleon of Milk.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

LOL Moooooo

[@scottfoster9452]

Thanks Harry that was a very interesting and fantastic presentation.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Glad you enjoyed it Scott

[@Andrew-se4tg]

Great video Harry! I love when you get into you're sailing warships history, because that's what I love to model more than anything! Looking forward to the future videos of these vessels!👍

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Thanks Andrew. I have a few other ships to get off my bench first, but I should be able to get a start on the Sirene next year.

[@Andrew-se4tg]

@@HarryHoudiniModels sounds good!

[@captaincharlemagne]

Nice captains cap sir I’m slowly building my Heller Solieri Royal model finally got the first of the three gun decks in after a year of fighting her deck. Now I get to fight to make the massive number of cannons before I get ready to make a version of USS United States as she would have looked in Ordinary(Reserve). Looking forward to seeing more of your videos sir

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Thanks Charlemagne

[@gerryswift5056]

Nice detective work and solutions Harry 👍👍👍

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Thanks Gerry.. it was a lot of fun working it all out.

[@BocageTiger]

Great comparison video! Thank you for the effort made to show the differences. I really appreciate knowing that you took the time to clarify the fixes. I'll just buy the Royal Louis! Cheers.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Thanks Michael. It is the better version… you should enjoy building the Heller Royal Louis just out of the box

[@garylawless3608]

This was very interesting and informative Harry. I don’t build ships, and even the thought of attempting a sailing ship with all those sails, rigging, and other marine paraphernalia, scares the crap out of me. But I do like watching you put your knowledge and skills on display when you build them. Keep to a following wind (I think that’s right, I would hate to you go under matey) and bring us more. Cheers from below the border!

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Give me the wind at my back and a star to sail by! Thanks Gary

[@garylawless3608]

@@HarryHoudiniModels - Let me try this old chant Harry - ‘May all your travels be downhill, the path be always clear, and may the wind be always at your back’ Not strictly nautical, but sounds OK - needs an Irish accent I think.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

That works, to be sure.

[@artsmodeldockyard8718]

Also a tip for the Hull as I built Heller's Royal Louis both have that shiny smooth Hull I lightly sanded mine down and it came up beautifully dulled, with no need to paint it, on hindsight also I though maybe you could plank it with say the fine 2nd planking you get in a wooden kit depending whether you cand get away with the scale, just a thought I had after I built mine.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Good tips Robert

[@thomasdailey9280]

Nice research Harry . You really know your sailing ships.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

They are my Jerrycans ;)

[@thomasdailey9280]

@@HarryHoudiniModels 💙

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Hay ho, Tom’s our man, if he can’t do it Jerrycan!

[@thomasdailey9280]

@@HarryHoudiniModels #tomsobsessian

[@GregReilly135ScaleModels]

A very interesting video Harry and thank you for a bit of a quick history lesson will look forward to the builds

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Lots to get out of the way first, but I may do a quick how to make the modification on the Sirene video to keep everyone interested.

[@johnhoffmann2311]

Thank you,you old salt.First time I've watch one of your vids,I like your style!!!

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Thanks John… hit that Like button please! I do a variety of light hearted videos, but ships are my main focus. Hope you enjoy my content.

[@johnhoffmann2311]

I did hit the like button.I will be watching more of your vids.P.S. No disrespect meant or intended w/ Old Salt😃

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

None taken… just some light humour.

[@artsmodeldockyard8718]

Correct Harry regards La Sirene of 1691 it was a 64 gun ship of the Laurier Class. This ship took part in the Battles of Barfleur 1692 and Lagos 1693. The Loaned as a privateer to CV Francois de Saint Mars as part of a Squadron of 4 vessels in 1696. It last took part in the Battle of Vigo in 1702 where Burning ran ashore and was captured by the Dutch and destroyed.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

I see you have done the same research. It did exist but would not have looked like the way Heller has it in this kit. But as I show you can fix the kit and make a much better model from it.

[@george_364]

Interesting models. Any ideas as to why Heller chose to make these fake ships instead of the more realistic versions?

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

I would say it was a bean counters idea. The big sailing ship kits never sell in the same volumes as a Spitfire, Mustang or Tiger kit. But they need a lot of work to produce the hull shape, guns and deck details, plus masts and sails etc. This is why so many of the Heller, Airfix, Revell and Imai Sailing ship kits were first moulded half a century ago, but have had little revision. I expect Heller did the Ford trick; Slap a new grille on it and call it a new model, so the drones will update and pay for the same thing again without realising it. Revell has been very guilty of this taking the Bounty kit and just massaging it into the Beagle and a few other pirate ships. Basically the same kit with a new grille.

[@spikespa5208]

Was looking for a model of an older sail ship and found Heller's model of the Niña. Decent detail for a very small ship. But the company, for some obscure reason, molded half of the kit, including major hull parts, in dark reddish brown and half in white. Made for a pain to paint, getting colors to match. Did they run out of brown (or white) plastic? Otherwise, a nice model of an often neglected ship.

[@usssaratogacv3lefevre978]

Nice video, waiting for you to start them. Really like when you do the modifications.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Thanks matey… need to get the St Louis, Vespucci and Esmeralda out the way first, plus an Ertl Greek Warship I have plans to build. Only 1 mast two sails and a bunch of oars, same as the little Aoshima one I made years ago, but about 4 times as big. So might tackle the Sirene next year.

[@nikolayalabanco6539]

Funny story about L'Indomptable - in the Russian version it is called Gladiator :) I assume that you will find some who has it named Gladiator in the Internet. The hull looks really close to the Royal Louise hull. The difference is with the stern. The same story between Sirene and Phoenix that you mentioned. I admit. the hulls of those two are completely identical.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

I talked about this while looking at the L’Indomptable sprues, where Heller has both it and the Gladiator name plates in the kit. I also took my Royal Louis hull half and mated it to L’Indomptable’s hull half to show they are the exact same moulding. Maybe you commented before watching the end of my video?

[@nikolayalabanco6539]

Oh, yes. Exactly

[@DutchDaveModels]

Great Vid...It's not cafetaria's outta the rear end Hahahaahaa, have to remember that one :)

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Yes well they look like sidewalk cafes!

[@aussiefrenchman-hobbytable9960]

Hi Harry, great video mate, will have to get one of these kits ! You had me pissing myself laughing, poofy blue ! Now we just got to build , will be looking forward to it! Have a good one mate

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Ha ha… wondered if anyone would get that… yep it’s an Aussie colour.

[@artsmodeldockyard8718]

Regards the masts and Yards I swapped mine for wooden dowels as the plastic as you say is soft and wouldn't stand up to any strenuous rigging.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

The masts should only have tension on the rigging lines for the tarred standing rigging. The yards have all the running rigging which tends to be a little looser, with some sag in the lines, so won’t need anything too strenuous.

[@stevetuck7684]

very interesting harry , shows what a bit of thought can do , I also live in qld , I haven;t heard of the PX model kit buy and swap , could you give us a bit of info about it please .

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Thanks Steve. PX is usually held each May at the Albany Creek State Primary School Hall. Heaps of kits for sale at mates rates, and anyone can hire a table to sell their own. It’s run by the IPMS guys of North Brisbane.

[@Davidsmodelshop8021]

Great video 👍 Harry

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Thanks David

[@iankerridge5720]

Where did you find a L'Indomptable are you referring to? The earliest L'Indomptable I could find was at Trafalgar. She was laid down in 1788, in service from 1791. She was an 80 gun ship of the line

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

I referenced “French Warships in the Age of Sail 1626-1786” by Rif Winfield & Stephen S Roberts. Page 72 reads: “Indomptable was ordered to a 112-gun design by Joseph-Marie-Blaise Coulomb; with one less pair of guns on the LD and similarly one pair less on the MD, she would have carried just 30 guns on the UD but twenty on the gaillards. Toulon planned to begin work on the two in the spring of 1758 and acquired some timber for them. However, in February 1759 Berryer stopped the construction at Toulon, the financial and military situations by then making their construction out of the question, and both orders were cancelled during 1760 due to shortages both of finance and of suitable timber.” So never sailed but was ordered and possibly started.

[@ladygardener100]

Can i prime wth rattle cans or even brush on primer ty

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Yiu can prime with rattle cans… I did it for almost 50 years until a fan sent me an airbrush. I still use rattle cans for car bodies or matt coats. Brush on primer is best done with enamel, acrylics dry too fast to get a smooth first layer unless you do many thin coats.

[@abyssminiaturestudios6103]

Not a bad kit, for what I've been looking to build

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Which one? I reviewed 2 and discussed 4 different Heller kits.

[@armedbrit493]

Jokes? Well, here's one: my modelling time.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

How droll… come on dude… the Hobby is supposed to fun and relaxing.

[@stevenanderson236]

Very Interesting

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Glad you think so!

[@TeeJayDesastron]

I've got La Siréne und Le Phénix but never actually got around to build either of them. It's really too bad since I find them rather fascinating even if they did not exist in the form Heller made them. Oh well, maybe one day I will do it. It would really be a waste not to build them after all.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Still lovely kits, accurate or not

[@crazypickles8235]

Out of curiosity, where could you order these kits? Great video, wonderful knowledge and educational material on modeling. Thank you!

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Heller has recently run out of new stock, but there are French online suppliers, like Cocktail 2, who may still have some kits. New prices are outrageous into the $hundreds, however if you look on ebay, now and then a bargain pops up. I found the Heller 1:150 Amerigo Vespucci for €50, which retails for $300 normally here down under, if you can find one. Private sales, online groups or model swap meets are even better places. I picked up the Heller 1:200 Royal Louis for just $20 from a Facebook Group. It normally retails for well over 10 times that, but again only if you can find one.

[@crazypickles8235]

@@HarryHoudiniModels Thank you very much for the information. I will have to look into acquiring a model from Ebay or market place.

[@aj-2savage896]

Shades of Revell "Thermopylae."

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Yes, simply a bean counting trick to make more money by trying to use an exisiting model, with a small change (in this case absurb), and palm it off as a new kit. Revell have been guilty of this many times.

[@ChenReed]

Hi Harry. I saw you at the PX but was too star-struck to say hello ;) I don't suppose that Airfix FW-190 is for sale, is it? I didn't see it at the PX... It's a kit I built when I was young and have been looking for it for years!

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Sure you can have it… just email me off my website and we can work that out.

[@ChenReed]

@@HarryHoudiniModels Will do, thanks Harry!

[@brianlewis6926]

What's up with that Norton commando 750 motorcycle kit in the background. Is it for sale

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

No mate that is one of my most prized kits… never sell that one, lucky to find it

[@brianlewis6926]

What scale is it & how old is it ? Do you know of any 650 BSA kits

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Just look in Scalemates. www.scalemates.com/kits/airfix-20480-6-norton-commando--183251

[@artsmodeldockyard8718]

L'indomptable is basically made up and based on the Royal Louis kit apart from the Transom and Figurehead and other architectural features. I would also point out that the Royal Louis kit only provides you with 3/4 of the full amount of guns needed so I would imagine the L'indomptable kit is the same so if you really need all the guns you'll need a second lot of parts from a second kit which I had and gave my Royal Louis 122 Guns. You maybe would be better building the Royal Louis which was a Real ship and transferring the Guns etc needed from the Fake L'indomptable/Gladiateur.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

That’s certainly an option, but I can get my mate Mouse Muffins to knock me up some 3D cannons if I need them.

[@artsmodeldockyard8718]

@@HarryHoudiniModels That's great that you have an option like that. I ended up with 2 Royal Louis kits after the first one came with 2 left hand side Hulls and the Company I bought it from and Heller just totally blanked my emails etc.. so had no option to buy a 2nd one from a better Company hence I had a ton of extras which came in very handy.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

I have two port side hall halves for the ships launch in my sealed La Superbe kit… no quality control!

[@CharlesFlahertyB]

Thanks!

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Super Thanks for the Super Thanks Charles.

[@CharlesFlahertyB]

@@HarryHoudiniModels I really enjoy the ship models. Other stuff too though

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Good to hear

[@addisth]

Hello, you can to try , the soleil royal , best of heller and Louis 14. Good work ans good continuation. Best regard

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Thank you… I do have the Soleil and the Royal Louis from Heller.

[@juliusfucik4011]

First time seeing one of your videos. I think a lot of Europeans will crave fish sticks seeing you 😂

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

So I keep being told… maybe I should start a fish food company?

[@artsmodeldockyard8718]

I think the overscaled Mermaid has been taken from "Corel's" 1/75 scale wooden Frigate of the same name, albeit theirs is dated from 1775 which is totally inaccurate. Their 30 gun frigate is from 1744 which had 26x8pdr guns and 4x4pdr guns.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Backer has already asked if he can have my mermaid LOL

[@DARIVSARCHITECTVS]

The Spanish three decker San Felipe c. 1691 didn't exist either, until some inventive model kit manufacturer created it. Now Mantua and a few others mass produce models of the fictitious ship complete with a false history of the vessels supposed exploits. It's still a nice ship in the style of a 1740's Spanish vessel similar to the Real Felipe. Unless you know your maritime history, it's easy to be fooled into thinking this ship model actually existed. Never trust any kit to be 100% accurate. Do your own research, and modify the kit to make it better.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

You are completely right matey

[@brucegibbins3792]

All of those yards and sailors putting up their lives in a blow around the Cape, sick as dogs, but still not wanting to die or being killed for a hold full of tea or cotton.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

These two were fighting ships… no tea or cotton, but maybe some wine and cheese.

[@hanschristophercharles6981]

Harry!!!! .....You look just like Capt Smith of the Titanic! Lmao! 🤣😂You're a ringer for him!!😅😆🤣😂

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

I have been known to go down with the ship!

[@philipcasa7379]

Harry you are The ship man no doubt and i love all things down under ,! except the shark conservationists they're out of their birds! thanks for sharing dude keep that waffle coming!

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

We need the sharks to eat the tourists mate…hehe

[@philipcasa7379]

@@HarryHoudiniModels yikes!!!!

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

…and don’t get me started on our carnivorous Drop Bears…

[@philipcasa7379]

@@HarryHoudiniModels Harry you're the best love your videos thanks for sharing all that talent!

[@thomasdailey9280]

L'Indomptible... French diagnosis of constipation .

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Mon Diuer c’est non dee poop!

[@thomasdailey9280]

@@HarryHoudiniModels 😀 L'Ex Lax

[@darronhedges5873]

Plank counter!

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Now, Now.. you can count your own planks, just not another modellers without permission. I did give a caveat in the video, that if you wanted to build these out of the box that’s fine. I just wondered what the real ships were like, and if I could modify these kits to be more realistic. Turns out I can. No planks were hurt in the making of this video.

[@darronhedges5873]

I can’t speak I’ve spent four days trying to recreate a T34/85 turret,I found a picture of one that looked like it was cast by farmer and welded by his wife.

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

That’s how they were all cast… T-34 were spat out the factory. They only had an average life of 3 days in the field.

[@darronhedges5873]

@@HarryHoudiniModels If you check out out the T34/85 Walkaround by Steve jones modelling channel you’ll see the turret I was inspired by.Impossible to describe or recreate exactly,but an inspirational experience that has to be seen to be believed.I knew they were a bit “Rustic” in design but it looks like they used a metallic “wattle and daub method.Has to be seen to be experienced.

[@sammy_dog]

did someone say flake and chips yeah ill have some throw in a potato cake or two n some dim sims hmmm

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Bask! One order of shark and some kitty litter rissoles.

[@sammy_dog]

@@HarryHoudiniModels lol your to funny Harry

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

I know… so why do the rivet counters hate me so much? hehe

[@sammy_dog]

@@HarryHoudiniModels because they live sad miserable lives and they complain about everything and they are jealous of your beard :P

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Well yes… my magnificent follicles are the envy of many!

[@nikolayalabanco6539]

I am building Phoenix

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Lovely… I believe it is a much more realistic model. Do you have videos of the build on KZbin

[@nikolayalabanco6539]

@@HarryHoudiniModels Not yet. I will do a coverage when I get to the rigging I guess. This kit a story: I bought it in 2019 from an old French fellow. This kit was really old. He or someone started to build it but failed. So I had to fix some parts of it. And you know what this had a smell of the old times. I think it was in the old cabin or room stored for a very long time. I repainted it like several times trying to find the tone I like but stay with the true colors. Remember I asked you about your beautiful Lifecolor washes. Unfortunately they can't be found in Russia (I am totally against what's happening right now just to mention) even at that time when I asked and can't be shipped either. Although I told you that Citadel Sepia filter does a pretty much the same thing as LifeColor does. It is a good kit of a Heller I am with you here. what I added also was I tried to add cannons rigging and I do ask you to do that to this kit. I am sure you might do that better and I would love to see your way. Canons rigging will add more beauty to the model. That's it for now. Really looking forward to see all of your sailing ship models as that is my passion. And I love the way you add so much effort to add more realistic view of the ships. Thank you!

[@davidcampbell8929]

Can you not just make it a fun what if build. As in what if a mad 17th century Oligarch designed and had built his own warship. Then you could really have fun with the kit😉😉

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

As I said at the start of the video, you can build it out of the box and still have a nice model. I have just tried to show in this video that all the people who say it was a fake ship were wrong. The Sirene did exist and with a few simple modifications you can turn this fanciful model into something close to the real ship. However if you want to do a ‘what if’, mad 17th century Oligarch version, then go for it. If you have watched my other videos you know I often have a lot of fun and take liberties with my builds.

[@johnreinsch2244]

Thanks!

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

Nice! Thanks so much John. Really appreciate the Super Thanks.

[@johnreinsch2244]

Hi Harry, enjoying all your videos and I have many sailing ships to build if I live long enough. I’m starting the 1/350 scale Eagle and appreciate your tips on the Aoshima/Lee, etc kits you have done. Id like to do photo etch railings but the ones in that scale are too big. Any ideas for the outside rails, which if done correctly would really make these ships look good?

[@johnreinsch2244]

By the way I just visited Eagle in Pensacola and took a bunch of detail pictures. Obviously in this scale one can only do so much. But you have shown how a few details can really make a difference. Also, how to simulate little blocks that aren’t grossly out of scale?

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

I used some aftermarket 1:350 PE railings on my Nippon Maru and will do the same for the Vespucci. Worked last time

[@HarryHoudiniModels]

If you want to make blocks, for rigging in 1:350, try a drop of PVA White wood glue. It should form a 1mm blob, which you can paint brown.