Helmut Lachenmann, Mouvement - Ensemble intercontemporain - Matthias Pintscher

Helmut Lachenmann
Mouvement (-vor der Erstarrung)
Ensemble intercontemporain
Matthias Pintscher, direction
Enregistré en direct le 11 juin 2015 à la Philharmonie de Paris, Grande Salle - Philharmonie 1

[@sub-harmonik]

I found myself singing this in the shower this morning

[@dairebarefoot6763]

Such a soothing melody

[@artemagica3486]

😁

[@nicojoosse]

😂😂😂

[@karimhabet6404]

merveilleuse performance. Bravo et merci a votre merveilleux orchestre, qui m'a toujours fasciné et qui défend et propage si merveilleusement la belle musique de notre temps.

[@ensembleinter]

Merci beaucoup et bonne année !

[@karimhabet6404]

Bonne année a vous aussi

[@davidfederman1947]

If a small orchestra of instruments were washed up on shore, and left to the soundings made by wind and wave, this is 25 minutes of what we might hear. The idea of pure acoustics and natural sonority seem to motivate this music. There were moments of tidal tension that were exquisite. Around minute 16 I could swear nature was doing a ragtime. The music becomes very jazzy and dramatic. Then quiet ensues with soft rumbles and rustlings. I'm glad someone dreamed of these opportunities for sound made by musical instruments. By the way, was that premature applause toward the end or a clapalong by the audience? Hands popping on mouthpieces? Bows on wood itself? Is the ocean reclaiming its booty? Fabulous, endless possibilities. I was deeply impressed.

[@HenryLeslieGraham]

god you must think that glasses dropped on the floor and piss filled jars make great art too? the kind of people one finds on these videos are effing insufferable. you would probably call someone playing a penis bone flute a genius, and someone playing percussion on elephant shit a miracle of sound

[@thisistides97]

show me on this diagram where the post modern composer hurt you

[@hansmahr8627]

This music might sound random to you but it's not. It has structure. Just because you think that music has to conform to tonal harmony to be enjoyed doesn't mean that's the case for everyone. But apparently it's unimaginable for you that there are people who genuinely like this music.

[@thewalmer7942]

you're one of those people who probably finds Stravinsky ground breaking still

[@Zisch2]

Beautiful interpretation and performance. Thanks a lot for the upload.

[@albertojacopucci6072]

The very essence of Lachenmann's music, the birth of the acoustic sense sound, the timbre that takes shape inside the instrument, as a gesture, breath sound matter .. creating or movements .. ... How "Dal niente" to cite another important work written for clarinet by the great German composer Extraordinary interpretation as always EIC

[@roccocicoria4888]

This is Music, gentlemen. In its founding aspects: sound, silence and noise. A counterpoint of these paradigms at the highest expressive levels. Absolutely brilliant.

[@a_literal_brick]

Imagine what it would sound like if you put this piece through the MuseScore synth

[@depauleable]

I compose with Lachenmann techniques in Musescore sometimes and I've just started to mute the midi playback lol

[@embcomposer]

Excelente obra y maravillosa ejecución!

[@MegaCirse]

The totality of the nuances of this sound architecture is like a flight in the Sublime, it is one of the most evocative music I have ever listened to so far. It's played with a feeling of tremendous inner power. A delightful listening experience.

[@eucariote79]

a what? this is gibberish.

[@carlospacini7765]

Incredible piece! Ensemble Intercontemporain, ever the best...

[@horsthans7959]

Ich habe dieses Stück letztens Live gehört.Wunderbar.

[@machida5114]

so good! so good performance!

[@christianebbertz7057]

I heard the piece at a time when I really disliked Lachenmann: This producing of sounds had simply not interested me. I was at a concert for Harrison Birtwistle and accepted the fact that Lachenmann was on the programme. And then this piece became a converting experience for me: as if one could create a virtuoso magic in the manner of Tchaikovsky with these noises. Perhaps it is something else when you hear it in concert and not as a recording. In the real room acoustics, these noises that keep suddenly transforming for a moment into something like "almost music" was exciting!

[@zsomborsidoo]

Amazing piece and execution!!!

[@ohnooooooooooooooo]

8:43 Yes I know how to play the clarinet

[@MegaCirse]

Finally, It's beautiful like the first encounter unlikely and messianic of an umbrella and a sewing machine on a dissection table👑

[@benjamin9901]

How fun! I'm not a fan of music concrete or early electronic music, but this acoustic version is very playful to me.

[@richardhames710]

A huge tune, one of the hugest

[@johnappleseed8369]

very excellent and exciting!

[@oni_thefirst]

Dunno what's weirder, the music or the fact that I enjoyed it

[@ghanesho]

HaHa - same with me ...

[@SxGaming3390]

Describe what you enjoyed.

[@edoardodalpra4742]

People have to let themselves enjoy this kind of music, when they can. It's not easy to listen, but I find that it's actually easier than you may think to find something enjoyable in composers like Lachenmann. People that criticize modern composers are usually familiar with classical tunes that are easy to the ear, but music has never been about that. Wagner's "Die Valkyrie" is more than 3 hours long, yet people say they enjoy Wagner after they only listened to the ride of the Valkyries. I'll tell you, the rest of the opera is not easier to listen to than Lachenmann.

[@zeldablair1414]

neither

[@aneco2.0]

Потрясающе звучит Спасибо

[@jmmontrapon175]

Musique magnifique et interprétation remarquable (comme d'habitude avec l'EIC et Matthias Pincher).

[@ricardoguzman5014]

Learning to play music backwards in a live concert is real talent.

[@LiteratureTodayUK]

Extraordinary utterances and growlings. Much too much of Mattias Pintscher swaying about looking solemn when I would have preferred to see who was making the strange sounds and how.

[@hyweldda56]

Catchy little number - like the mumps.

[@ShellacScrubber]

Wow that's catchy !

[@brearddidier454]

L'Ensemble Intercontemporain ne déçoit jamais! Bravo!

[@andreslka]

11:20 beware of the shark

[@microsoftice6498]

Haha unterrated comment!

[@sebastiannietzsch1893]

Da viel mir die Stulle aus der Schnute vor lauter Begeisterung, Grossartig!

[@caspardegelmini2467]

Großartig!

[@VictorAlexanderFiltenborg]

very enjoyable

[@shihonakano4258]

Bravo à tous!!!

[@klangschatten5610]

Lachenmann's masterpiece.

[@9827george]

clarté, tension, probablement le meilleur présentation jamais!

[@ensembleinter]

+9827george Merci !

[@PeterWest]

Thus would work as the theme music to "maybe the filmmaker realized that even narrative is comforting"

[@OngoingBox]

incredible

[@ВячеславМухин-б6ы]

Премного Благодарю Вам

[@jaegonekim]

All these sounds make my brain go “wheeeeee!!!!”

[@andrewnguyen1220]

What is that percussion instrument is this There are 2 of them Pls tell me Is not a bladespiel Bladespiel is not exist 😫😫😫😫😫😫😫

[@albertomarcantonio3179]

.... why did they have to turn upside down the timpany to strike the bowl?

[@eligeruschat6567]

its marked in the score as shell attacks. A specific metallic sound of striking the shells of the timpani. They were probably turned upside down for easy access to the bowl.

[@강지우-x5e]

I love his ideas.

[@LazarusWilhelm]

12:22 when a monster comes out of the cereal bowl in some creepy 90s kids film

[@egapnala65]

An acoustic rendering of what is basically an electronic score.

[@johnappleseed8369]

That's the idea actually

[@manolitosanchez]

Is it??

[@tomfurgas2844]

@@manolitosanchez Lachenmann called his music "instrumental musique concrete". He wants the music to sound like electronics and manipulated natural sounds.

[@manolitosanchez]

@@tomfurgas2844 the fact that he called it like that goes more with the sense of perceptual detachment of sound from its familiar source than with it "sounding like electronic music".

[@philipphenkel2218]

@@manolitosanchez Correct

[@tomzeru]

Excuse me but what is this? How do you enjoy this?

[@FlorianBe]

Im a musician and i like some contemporary but i cant find it either interesting or beautiful

[@MorganHayes_Composer.Pianist]

did you listen to the whole piece? it really has an impressive momentum to it. Very exciting, and i'm more of a 'pitch' person.

[@tomzeru]

@@MorganHayes_Composer.Pianist okay I'm happy to have someone that can answer my questions. I haven't, maybe I judged too quickly. But still I'm not enjoying a minute and I don't understand what is genius about it

[@mrpicky100]

He should have called this piece 'Farts for Ensemble'

[@thisistides97]

irony of folks to complain about this being pretentious when its on them for expecting everything to fit their standards this is just music. it's not so deep of a movement that you have to fear it. if you don't like it that's fine. just dont try to find some deeper meaning in that.

[@boschblue]

The biggest irony of people calling Lachenmann and similar composers "pretentious" is that you have to be extremely modest and LACKING in vanity to compose a piece such as this. Because the masses hate it. You will face more hostility than worship. If anything is depressive Hollywood soundtrack minimalism "pretentious". Postmodernism is full of pretentious BS: cheap music, evoking cheap feelings, making the masses feel smarter and deeper than they actually are. By contrast, you have throw all vanity and all attempts to impress the masses and young female models or whatever away if you want to compose and perform music such as Lachenmann's!

[@awelotta]

​@@boschblue > you have to be very brave to make music that most people hate That sounds a bit pretentious to me; I mean, is high art pretentious? Is it just signaling how "refined" ones taste (to other high-class (not necessarily rich) people) is? I also cringe at minimalism, but it seems pretentious to care about simplicity/complexity/popularity/exclusivity. Well, that's just semantics. I mean, music ultimately doesn't matter, so nobody's taste is better or worse.

[@crawlingamongthestars3736]

awe lotta "Music doesn't ultimately matter, so nobody's tastes are better or worse." Music not ultimately mattering does not prevent some people from having more refined and intelligent tastes than that of others. Obviously not everyone has the same level of intelligence, education and refinement, and the higher those traits/qualities/abilities are in a particular field or area of interest for a single person, than the more superior that person's tastes in that area will be, broadly speaking. As for objectively determining who has the best tastes and what those tastes must therefore be, and for how much subjectivity and bias might play a role in these tastes, well that's a whole other matter, and maybe an impossible one to unravel.

[@awelotta]

​@@crawlingamongthestars3736 I feel like you just said the opposite of what I said and presented that as evidence for why I'm wrong. Are you trying to make a distinction between "better/worse" tastes and "refined/unrefined" tastes? Or a distinction between art quality and individual taste (i.e. that regardless of the objective quality of art, an individual can have good or bad taste based on how he chooses). How do you define "intelligence, education and refinement" without referencing taste? Taking music for example, I might measure intelligence as "ability", such as to produce music. People produce all sorts of music for all sorts of audiences and popularity (success) seems to be heavily influenced by chance, so it seems that every genre can be considered to have intelligent people who, even just broadly speaking, supposedly have good taste. Yet different genres can have quite opposite target aesthetics. I assume now that a "good" aesthetic would persist somewhat across genres (otherwise, a conversation about something like Helmut Lachenmann wouldn't make sense); if that's the case, then I don't think there can possibly be an objectively good taste. Otherwise if taste is exclusively defined with respect to genre, then I don't see what prevents someone from a) finding enough people with similar taste and b) calling any new taste a new genre.

[@crawlingamongthestars3736]

@awe lotta There's a lot to address in your most recent comment, and I don't have the time to engage with all of it, but as to the initial point you made, that I said the opposite of what you said, and then presented it as evidence as to why you are wrong, maybe you had a different meaning in mind when you stated that music doesn't ultimately matter so nobody's tastes are better or worse, than the way I interpreted it, but for the sake of maybe an attempt at clarification on my part, I will re-phrase what I said previously as a response: it seemed to me that by saying "music doesn't ultimately matter" you meant that it doesn't matter because nothing actually matters in an objective sense (which goes into the whole "there is no God, so there is no teleology, thus there is no ultimate purpose for anything, thus nothing ultimately can be said to matter" strain of thought), and because nothing matters (including music) on an objective, ultimate level, no sort of value distinctions can be made, even on human terms, as relating to human interests and goals, which is where in my mind I came into disagreement (at least with your perceived meaning, on my part), and replied as I did to indicate that I felt the opposite of this, that value distinctions can still be made (at least on a human level, as impacting humans), specifically as regarding music in this case, and what can be defined as good music and bad music, and that perhaps a step or two down the right avenue towards making these determinations is by looking to the most intelligent, experienced, educated and refined people's (at least in the area of music) tastes in music, to be able to determine what the best music is, and I should add here, across as wide a variety of different cultures, backgrounds and classes as possible (for example, a person could come out of a fairly impoverished, uncultured blue-collar background, and yet still have a high degree of intelligence and appreciation of music, yet may not have much exposure to say, classical music, and lacks a formal education, yet is deeply entrenched in traditional folk Americana music, rockabilly and punk rock, and has spent many years cultivating an ability for composing and performing in a punk rock style influenced by traditional folk Americana, rockabilly etc., and for these reasons can now make this sort of music at an exceptionally aesthetically pleasing level, and many people across an enormously large spectrum of different backgrounds and tastes, but who are all ideally open-minded, intelligent and musically keen, can recognize the punk music this person creates to be "objectively" very good, within the constraints and limitations of the style he (or she) creates within, even if this style is comparitively very minimal, and not to mention more musically traditional in the sense that it is tonal and mostly consonant, to say a modern classical orchestral piece, or bebop or free jazz compositions/improvisations, etc). But I guess even though you can make the argument that a particular "minimal" music is extremely artistically accomplished within the constraints imposed (by self or otherwise), the "objectively" most sophisticated music, and therefore, "best", might be the most maximal music, composed (pre-composed that is, not "spontaneously", which is to say, improvised) in the most intelligent and creative way, though even within a maximal setting, there still should be the self-imposition of limitation in certain moments, for the sake of a fluid pacing and dynamism, so a minimalist sense might creep in here as well, unless the objective would be to eliminate all fluidity of pacing period, which would be an entirely different context of musical endeavor, and then here again I suppose the question inevitably pops up of "what IS good music?", or even, more extremely "what IS music?"...

[@xenockz]

Ok, we're getting somewhere... They're actually using the instruments kinda right.

[@carlosadurt6153]

The guys from this ensamble are the experts performing this type of music. So, yes, they have a big merit

[@christianwouters6764]

Every composition by Lachenman sounds exactly the same. Was this intended ?

[@christianwouters6764]

@father merrin That is interesting ! So why did he-and many others- bother to write so much of this? Funny how all this so called hyper-thought out music sounds as total chaos.

[@Cleekschrey]

Don't agree at all! Best composer alive

[@MorganHayes_Composer.Pianist]

His aesthetic is very consistent from one piece to the next but 'Mouvment' sounds very different to 'March Fatale' and 'Variations on a theme Schubert' to name the most obvious examples.

[@johnmacward]

So catchy...

[@SergeyKravchenya]

Ничего не понял, но дослушал до конца. Очень интересно.

[@SpielerischKlavierLernen]

Hat was von Cartoon-Musik

[@ensembleinter]

Yes indeed ;)

[@gepmrk]

One of the cellists has a very unusual looking instrument. It has square shoulders and several round holes drilled in it... ?

[@a_literal_brick]

Of all the things to take objection to....

[@gepmrk]

@@a_literal_brick Did I say I had an objection? I'm curious because I've never seen an instrument like it.

[@mischacarlberg6631]

@@gepmrk Same, I've never seen that one either.

[@jaegonekim]

🥰

[@louisstemler5004]

Très joli morceau, dommage qu'ils mettent autant de temps à accorder leurs instruments et à s'échauffer...

[@danielantoniomiraglia3238]

A silly joke.

[@danielantoniomiraglia3238]

A silly joke.

[@Alix777.]

T'es trop marrant toi

[@AlessandroZir]

🌚🖤🖤🖤

[@пекельніборошна-т1в]

Кто после Курентзиса?)

[@shark_username]

Good

[@KamilKosecki]

very nice demostration of instrumental effects

[@argus2k]

Por qué nunca sitúan una cámara fija en vez de hacer acrobacias fílmicas y fragmentar toda la interpretación. o por qué en vez de enfocar exclusivamente al director no muestran esos momentos de alta complejidad interpretativa que me son más relevantes! Que gusto el de complicar las cosas, no tiene sentido excelente interpretacion

[@blackguypancakes7516]

I'm so confused

[@kmrerk]

All that's missing is somebody streaking this event.

[@jessenowells2920]

Are you volunteering? Go for it.

[@SantiagoQuinto]

Odio ver golpear la cazuela de un timbal.

[@TuralXezer.]

Sənöl səndə çatmır, sənin yazdığlarıvı bizə dərslik kimi verəndə heç çatmır.

[@cuauhxochitzin]

This music sounds so old already. 🙄

[@deedz75]

sounds like nightmare

[@SxGaming3390]

This is the musical equivalent of a banana taped to the wall. It’s nothing, but someone famous made it so now it’s something.

[@hansmahr8627]

Why? Because it doesn't conform to Western tonality? Because you don't get it? Are you the arbiter of good musical taste?

[@BetonBrutContemporary]

I enjoyed the noises very uch BUT THE PITCHES AND CHORDS HERE... my disappointment is immeasurable and my day is eh somewhat okay

[@a.s.vanhoose1545]

We’re now in the rubbish bin of western music. At least the trash in arranged in neat little sections.

[@DanielJoyce]

Sounds like the conceptual music from a bad 1960s horor film. No wonder concerts have been dying. Beethoven knew he was writing for the public. This is just self-absorbed unlistenable concept garbage.

[@evgenikostitsyn1718]

Junk food is cheap, while junk music is expensive - the only difference. Has Lachenmann contributed anything to evolution of music as an artform? Has he created anything new, anything which will survive one-time performance? Has he achieved new artistic results? No. Lachenmann brought music to the deadend.

[@evgenikostitsyn1718]

@@YT-st8jq What is NEW in his music? I do not see ANYTHING new.

[@evgenikostitsyn1718]

@@YT-st8jq Did Schoenberg and Nancarrow know about their 'judges' in Darmstadt? Did they care about Darmstadt? (((( The real value of composer's creativity lies in initiated events - in creation of new systems of musical material organization - for example, dodecaphony, polytempo or synchronous music, which have and will continue to have a great influence on further development of music as an art form. Music evolution has tendencies that inevitably lead to the emergence of new systems of material organization. The way the material is organized is primary. Style, artistic images, musical language, means of expression are secondary. Those composers whom we perform in 200 or 300 years after their death, consciously or not, sought to become initiators of such events. Not everyone succeeded.

[@victorgrauer5834]

Enough already with the twitter school. Such "innovations" were already old 20 years ago.

[@kwabzycomposer]

Now this... This is dreck.

[@frankfeldman6657]

I saw a couple of HL's early, tonal pieces. They were quite bad. Good career move, going rogue/pretentious.

[@a_literal_brick]

Frank Feldman there’s definitely a lot of pretentiousness in this comment section. People are going on like this is the greatest piece of music ever when it’s really just a weird piece that tries to push the boundary of what counts as music.

[@dudel39]

I dont get it and I dont think I ever will. I dont hear any emotional bandwith in this music. Are there people who get goosebumps when listening to this?

[@callumsutherland2954]

I do. I genuinely do. I can understand not liking the sounds, but there is a very clear movement through the piece; there's tension, momentum---the only major difference between this and a more 'traditional' piece is that timbre and colour take the place of tone, for the most part, as what is interacting with (creating and responsing to) the forward momentum that drives the piece. That's where I feel goosebumps, where I feel the music: in the interaction between the propulsive forward movements and achingly tense deaccelerations, and the constantly shifting, deeply emotive timbres employed.

[@MorganHayes_Composer.Pianist]

@@callumsutherland2954 i agree. It doesn't lend itself to sampling ( youtube lends itself well to this) as so much of the excitement derives from the structural ebb and flow. Patience!

[@StephenGrew]

I'm sorry I don't like it to be honest. It feels pointless. I really do understand the direction of it, but the language has become hacknied, it appears to have great clarity and direction, but it feels unlike this.

[@roses2155]

Twenty-four minutes to establish that this sentiment could have been communicated in three. Musical masturbation combined with edging... A musical version of math, not prose. Congratulations to the musicians for realizing this notation. Condolences to those that are just looking for motives, fragments, much less anything melodic.

[@DavidA-ps1qr]

Another failed German composer, in a long line since the death of Paul Hindemith. Here's a classic example of it. A ghastly work, written in the 1980's producing sounds and combinations most of which had all been done 30 years before. I'm sure all the musicians performing it enjoyed the hours and hours of practice, tuition and examinations they took in order to produce such nonsense.

[@johnatwell2753]

Go away. You know absolutely nothing about music.

[@DavidA-ps1qr]

@@johnatwell2753 Really, I'll let my ex-professors at the Royal Academy know, where I studied for 3 years. Thanks for your reply that did little to argue with my point.

[@johnatwell2753]

There is no point, except the "sounds and combinations most of which had all been done 30 years before" is ridiculous. This was written in 1984, and it is still as fresh and new as it was then. Lachenmann has an original sound that I can differentiate and enjoy. In that way, he is a success. Who do you think did this "30 years before" 1984? Sure wasn't Hindemith. If he is the peak of German music to you, you are very poorly educated indeed.

[@DavidA-ps1qr]

@@johnatwell2753 I'm pleased you at least got that message, but I haven't got a problem if you do. However, it doesn't mean that I "know nothing about music". Thanks buddy, you're an inspiration to us all.

[@johnatwell2753]

@@DavidA-ps1qr And you are a disgrace to us all. Chacun à son goût. Your welcome.

[@enriquemariana1139]

schreckliche!