Herder's Historicism

[@he1ar1]

Very interesting take on moral relativism, culture and ethical progress. And it is a sign of our historical era. Our historical era is consistently saying "we don't forget". We have memorial days, weeks, months, etc marking important days. We still observe the religious holidays etc. Yet we think that we might have forgotten something.

[@silverskid]

Tacit assumptions: 1) Moral judgments should be evaluated in terms of their efficacy in solving cultural and material problems that bedevil those living within a particular era/epoch-- One might object to that quasi-pragmatist assessment of WHAT morality is all about. At a minimum, one might say that is perhaps *part of* but not the whole story, and warn against seeming reductionist tendencies. 2) Historical problems and solutions to them are continuous, and (barring problem of 'forgetting the past" you mention) cumulative. Our moral "solutions" are "better" than Egypt's because not only do they handle nicely our own "problems" but also-- presumably-- those of Egypt and other intervening cultures and epochs. Evidence from comparative history and ethnography would likely cast doubt on that assumption. Many "problems" depend on conceptual schemes (myths, symbol systems, et al.) that are not preserved and transmuted through historic time, but just as often perish completely. "The past is a foreign country'-- that sort of thing. 3) Herder starts with differences (particular communities, languages, eras, cultures, peoples appeal to internal standards which differ in fundamental ways from those of others) then (on your account) claims that nevertheless, somehow all these different schemes can be seen as a CONTINUOUS effort to solve similar and interrelated problems (c.f 2 above). There is a conceptual tension unresolved here it seems. 4) Diference is thus reduced to progress and/or retrogression -- i.e. "solving " more problems effectively over spans of historic time = progress; solving fewer problems and also creating new unsolved ones is retrogression (your example of "Fall of Rome"). Very linear for a thinker who sets out from a position of cultural and historical pluralism in the realm of values, beliefs and culture. As for the claim to "solving more problems" the continuity claim you make for Herder, it sounds proto-Hegelian. Hegel's sublation functions in some such way. In process of change, elements of that which changes are preserved, so we don't get incommensurable epochs but an evolving system which (for Hegel) gets bigger and better. Herder adds retrogression where elements are lost/forgotten rather than preserved. Offhand, that reminds me of Heidegger's use of terms like "concealment" and "forgottenness" (Stambaugh's trans). Rorty once said if Hegel sees history as an upward escalator, Heidegger sees it as a "downward escalator." My point is that both are linear and continuous views of history at odds with radical pluralism. Finally, all of this treats morality/moral claims as something only literate, historically informed folks can rightfully evaluate. A less elitist view might see no such prerequisite. An educated person may lack moral insight, virtue, compassion, good will et al. Most people (sep in the past) were not even literate, and today many don't know much world history. Sounds like a strong and elitist claim to bar them from having insight into what makes something "good" due to their lack of historical knowledge. These are just first impressions from the video. I only read a little Herder, and some secondary sources like Berlin and Taylor.

[@thattimestampguy]

6:16 Across Species Judgements become not useful, (because each species has what works for it, and whenever you say better, you have to remember "better at what? better for achieving what goal?) 8:38 Human Dignity affirmed. 9:30 Jazz Pianist. 9:54 Freely Chosen Development of one's Capacities! 13:17 We in 19th Century Germany, we do this... 13:47 I confess, this is a bit like me liking mushrooms. *Cultural Forgetting* 21:41 Sometimes there is a MONSTROUS HUGE CULTURAL FORGETTING of Knowledge. - Ex. Roman Concrete Making 22:11 It can occur through a Cultural Forgetting to know History.

[@Tm-kt3uw]

I think that the problem isn’t cultural forgetting, but is the belief that some long known truths are no longer relevant in the new situations.

[@horasefu1438]

and how are the two exactly mutually exclusive? sounds like the former can easily be the causation of the latter. moreover, it's but natural for "old truths" to not be so anymore and be "left forgotten" after the overall paradigm shifts/changes.

[@Tm-kt3uw]

@@horasefu1438 Maybe you are correct.

[@mithra2396]

thank you!

[@akbar-nr4kc]

Can you sir please tell me how you take this passage below in which ... Is chomsky is correct in describing hegel dialectical method dependent on experinece? or its opposite is true hegel dialectical method and thinking are independent of experience? "freedom exists only in relation to constraint.For Chomsky, there is a severe limitation on the human aptitude for understanding and self-knowledge. Perhaps one reason for Chomsky’s hostility to dialectical thought (beyond his devotion to Descartes) is an allergy to Hegel’s basic argument that self-consciousness may take shape through thought’s dynamic and ever-unfolding encounter with the world - and more significantly, Marx’s avowal of the unity of theory and practice. In contrast with the dialectic, which operates as it were “without” us, Chomsky’s notion of mind is of a faculty that is limited like any other biological organ..

[@alias9025]

Gee professor, your proposed solution to Herder's problems sounds somewhat Hegelian. But wasn't Hegel's theory of dialectical progress inspired by Herder's difficulties? Your additional comments about the possibility of regress through forgetting history are a quite justified criticism of Hegel. It is not possible to build on the past if you don't know it.

[@carterellsworth7844]

Huh I thought for sure you were going to say that if being in the present is the privileged position (Herder judging the past from his early 1800's perspective) then we could judge Herder from our privileged present time position of the early 2000's which doesn't give us much hope for our morals to be absolute truth if the future philosophers can make moral judgements about us from their privileged future position. So the "privileged" position of being present in time is a sort of illusion. But instead you had the thought experiment of bringing Herder to the present to judge us for having lost historical knowledge. Interesting as well but I can't help but wonder about my first point.

[@Kinging76]

modern infrastructure is more utilitarian, we do not need stronger buildings neither the knowledge to build those buildings has been lost. The fast pace of construction requires simpler solutions.

[@ivoga1]

In light of the content, I wonder if he still supports Trump…

[@shogun9450]

My immediate thought whenever I realize how awesome the lectures are but yeah 😢 I hope not tho