Heresy/Crusade vs Modern Space Marines - Which is Better? | Warhammer 40k Lore

[@majorkill]

Given they've had 10 thousand years, you would hope that some improvements would have been made... especially in the whole "don't sell your soul to hell" department 30% clearance sale is live : www.majorkill.shop/ 12 Hours left before all STLs are taken down from the website : www.majorminis.com.au/

[@sharinganamvs9839]

Day 3 of requesting to make a video on Cato Sicarius 😢

[@ugootoo]

​@@sharinganamvs9839 I AM THE GREAT CATO SICARIUS ( in a very high pitched voice)

[@huwwatkins6736]

Your next piece of merchandise should be BJJ gi

[@Florkl]

Will download links for purchased STLs still work after the 12 hours?

[@VikingDrummerRob]

Getting inked isn't too bad, the lineart feels like being pinched sort of, the shading might get a bit rough when they go over the same area again and again, but... when the highlights are coming on, and they start inking on the extremely raw areas which have been shaded... THEN you will know what pain is! I did a 6 hour session on my tattoo on the upper arm, and I nearly started crying when they began highlighting. xD

[@ninjabreadman8166]

I always thought that the Crusader-Era Marines had more stable geneseed *and* had better gear that has now become rare or lost

[@Alex-pj8nz]

Primaries Space Marines pretty much advance the modern space marines

[@conan2096]

most of the chapters HAVE lost a lot of their implants.

[@williamhohmeister4841]

That was the old lore, the old lore had the crusade era technology was more advanced and the imperium decline was part of the grim dark setting. Then GW turned around with the release of the Primari and was like wow look at these roided up dudes in this so much more powerful gear! Totally not just truescale marines no way!

[@mouchtachegaming5869]

They had better "special" shit but the average gear is way better in the 40k's

[@ranjela455]

Thousand Sons not so much afterall they were dying from magic cancer, and the blood angels were on roid rage before finding Sanguinius, and pretty much from what i read so far Iron Warriors & Ultramarines got the most stable geneseeds of all legions

[@LupercalRising]

The Night Lords Omnibus fight against the thunderhammer champion was pretty dope, he took on 5 of them and just wouldnt die

[@Helis431]

That's cuz the Night Lord in question was an excellent duelist already. It's also less of a "Old vs New" argument cuz said Night Lord basically dies right after.

[@adrunkhomelesguy8675]

That fight was intense

[@tommyhunt9779]

Xarl was such a beast will be missed

[@nethanbrake6294]

​@maxattack890 If Xarl had better armor and weapon, he would easily killed him.

[@Helis431]

@@nethanbrake6294 the champion had a thunder hammer I doubt anything less than Terminator armor would have helped him survive

[@lewishorsman2219]

What about when the alpha legion encountered Primaris and came away with a slender victory and said “they are better than before. What heresy must be going on for the imperium to tamper with and enhance the emperor’s creation?”

[@TheTrueMalice]

That section was awesome. They ambushed the Imperial Fists with superior numbers and were baffled by how fast and hard to kill they were. The part after where one of the warband was like "I knew all along!" was funny

[@jkee9760]

​@@TheTrueMalice what book? I've heard the quote but dont know which book it was from

[@TheTrueMalice]

@@jkee9760 Shroud of Night.

[@jkee9760]

@@TheTrueMalice thanks mate. I actually found a Wolf Lord Rho video talking about it lol

[@MWH12085]

It literally took three of them to take down...one. And even then, it was easy

[@TheKenthor]

This reminds me of a story I heard about some US Marines. During some event a group of ww2 Marine Raider veterans were watching a demo of more modern marines. They were quests at some event or other and were pretty much revered by their more modern counterparts. Observing a helicopter assault repelling exercise one of the old vets was overhead whispering something along the lines of "there is no way in hell you'd get me to do that."

[@DylanJo123]

Dang, that made me realize how recent helicopter tech is.

[@ScottDCS]

​@Jenkins the OG's sailed into battle on gliders. Way scarier imo.

[@commissar.yarrick]

@@ScottDCSthat’s the airborn

[@billyclement5141]

I met the opposite once- a modern para giving it large over an old boy who fought in WW2 . The modern dickhead clearly couldn't handle his drink, the old gent was being far more polite than I'd have managed. Still, he decided to rag on the old man's record. "How many jumps did you make, granpa?" "Only the one, son." "What, just one jump? That barely qualifies as a para! Where did you drop?" "Arnhem son, Arnhem..."

[@ianyapxw]

Kinda doubt the story, the WW2 era soldiers did a whole bunch of badass paradrops and storming Normandy. That’s said a lot has changed in the modern era, especially CQB.

[@inductivegrunt94]

I much love the Crusade era Marines. Their armor and heraldry look more ornate and Beautiful, especially the Cataphractii Terminators, and their weapons look really cool and unique. Plus they got some sick vehicles and tanks at their disposal.

[@SADmemer.]

GW needs to bring those sorta models back

[@smugron1101]

Iron Armour and Cataphractii supremacy

[@crimsonknight7011]

Back then things were more ornate and had more personality. Also they showed off more trophies from races they conquered.

[@crimsonknight7011]

I really want GW to come out with Mark 4 armor

[@jonathan6401]

How each pre-heresy primarch would react to the current imperium when placed in Gullimans shoes would be a cool video idea

[@tom47799]

One day 😂

[@Grabthar191]

Yeah, Bobby Blue was pretty horrified at what happened to the Imperium. Especially the religious aspect. I bet the Lion probably is a bit weirded out as well.. like "You know how many worlds I stomped into the dust that talked JUST LIKE THIS?"

[@Winterborn_01]

We need answer, Majorkill !

[@BIOSHOCKFOXX]

You can't place in Gulliman's shoes and expect a reaction on the current imperium, because Gulliman is the one who shaped the current imperium, meaning that anyone you would place in Gulliman's place would be the shaper of the imperium at the moment. Just simply revive all the primarch and see how they would react, just like Lion, now trying to figure out and get the feel of the current imperium created partially by Gulliman.

[@tom47799]

@BIOSHOCKFOXX I think its more just an interesting thought exercise. How each primacrh would react to the state of the galaxy after 10,000 and how each of them would try to save it differently after the great rift

[@antcow1239]

I remember reading a Ragnar blackmane novel when a modern day dark angel in power armor dueled a crusade era dark angel who wasnt wearing any armor, just had his sword. And the crusade marine almost won. But I guess there is always room for exceptional people in any setting.

[@misplacedodst]

I can just imagine crusade era marines reacting to their modern counterparts. Crusade Era Ultra Marines: “Yay, our future descendants became stronger, we’re so proud!” Crusade Era Imperial Fists: “Our descendants are true sons of Dorn. Black Templars are a bit crazy though.” Crusade Era Blood Angels: “WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED???!!!!!”

[@rhodesiancowboy]

Crusade Era Sons of Horus: "why?"

[@drakeyork241]

@@rhodesiancowboy sons of horus did not exist during the crusade, only the Luna Wolfs.

[@krazekriz6584]

No they did exist in the crusade era Horus changed the name to sons of Horus when he was promoted to Warmaster by the emperor.

[@drakeyork241]

@@krazekriz6584 incorrect, when Horus was promoted to war master, the emperor SUGGESTED the name change, but Horus declined as he thought it would make him seem arrogant, only changing his mind at the start of the Horus heresy after he had been corrupted by chaos in the more secretive phase of the heresy. I’m hoping we can agree that the Horus heresy’s start was the end of the great crusade

[@Metryk]

Read "Angels of Darkness". You will get to see some reactions from a crusade era fallen to the current state (who even stood at the side of the emperor).

[@Nocturra]

Well the crusade era of space marines knew that out there somewhere, big man Vulcan was out there. So honestly they probably had a lot more morale from that alone

[@ravenguard0098]

I think one of the main advantages of the the GC era marines is that they have better vehicles and have more of them compared to modern astartes. They are also more centralized and their Legion culture is more centralized meaning no deviant chapters.

[@oompalumpus699]

And yet, those same legions bent over for Chaos.

[@KeysAndDoorss]

GC? group chat?

[@danpitzer765]

I think there's also the issue of lost potentials. Unfallen Emperor's Children, before Fulgrim touched that stupid sword, were absurdly dangerous, mainly because they absolutely were the type of people who would practice one kick 10,000 times rather than learning 10,000 different kicks (to reference a Bruce Lee quote about what would scare him more). If you have a bunch of people who are each absolute grandmasters of various skills working in cohesion to support each other, it becomes a nightmare to deal with. Of course, now, they may still have those old skills, and maybe they even still practice some...but they don't work together well anymore, or even focus on the job they need to get done. Once, the only ones worthy of wearing the Aquilla, now, only worthy of being tossed in a hole and forgotten as disappointments. The Thousand Sons were OP beyond belief, and in theory still are. But there's still such a small number of them that it really doesn't matter, because they can't deploy enough force (even with their powers and the durability of the rubric troops acting as force multipliers) to achieve lasting results. The Thousand Sons may be able to breach virtually anything with their arcane might, but holding it? Fat chance. They can't fight wars of attrition at all. Every loss is a huge blow to them. When the 'best of the best' have had their greatness neutered, it makes it easier for those who came after to shine.

[@spookyghostwriter3110]

Lucius being taken out by one of the other EC (before possessing and replacing the unlucky bastard) is honestly funny AF

[@dr.stronk9857]

Hopefully he gets eaten by a tyranid one day and is cursed to an endless death at the hands of the nids

[@TimeFunHappy]

If the metric is "best vs best", then which 40k marine could beat Sigismund in his prime? Even duel's aside, the aura he had in the siege of Terra, going around with the black sword just stomping everything in his path is so goosebump inducing. Can anyone in the current lore match that vibe?

[@aaronbold8715]

Yeah, by every metric Heresy era are significantly better until GW snorted a line of coke and made the Primaris and all the tech supplements that came with them. I guarantee that 9/10 times a named captain from Heresy era would stomp a named captain from 40k.

[@danpitzer765]

Perhaps Mortarion, but he's a cheatswitch and probably should only be matched against Ahriman. I meant Mephiston. I shouldn't reply when I haven't slept yet.

[@armadorosoconzervates891]

Mephiston, he probably beats all the heresy era duelists back to back. Besides him, you got grimnar, astorath, asterion moloc, tyberus. There are probably more, but these are the top of my head.

[@antonioj700]

Dante, hell even cato at this point lol

[@ovidiudiumea4012]

I don't know if any 40k era non-psyker could take Sigismund on. Maybe Grimnar. I guess it would depend on the writer and how he'd see it.

[@40KKensei]

Horus heresy Ultramarines are so dope. I love the 'theoretical vs practical" line of thinking things through

[@studentoo925]

I have to disagree/corrext a few points: 'modern' (indomitus-pattern) terminator was available during heresy in decent numbers, but wasn't the prevalent type, and it was a middle ground between heavier-armoured cataphractii and faster, but lighter tartaros-pattern. GW also seems to agree that indomitus-pattern terminator plate is the best better than gravis armour, hence their continous support for it. Also, mkVI power armour isn't the best type of armour available during heresy: that would still go to mkIV, which was given in large numbers to traitors by Horus, while mk VI was considered sub-par by majority of legions and was subsequently 'relegated' to warmasters least favourite legion, Raven Guard (hence name corvus-pattern). MkIV had the trade off of being extremly resource-heavy and difficult to produce and maintain. Mk VII was, again, compromise between armour and mobility (plus sensors from mkvi's beak), and we know that heresy-era amunition is capable of penetrating it (heresy-era Alpha legion vs modern iron fists from "Shroud of Night" by Andy Clark). Primaris is a different story. It's also worth noting that in "Lion - son of the forest' Lion complains about how slow/unresponsive ship interfaces have become in comparison to what he was used to, and how sensors on them have degraded.

[@michaelgrasser6553]

The biggest advantage of indomitus pattern was how easy it was to manufacture compared to the other types, sure id didnt offer the amount of protection that cataphractii did, nor did it offer the same agility as tartaros, but if you can equip 2-3 marines for the same cost as 1 with terminator armor thats a quality on its own, especially during the heresy where quality dropped immensely and it was more important to just get any kind of gear. Also it did have better sensors than the other patterns so it was better in low visibilty situations, like a space hulk. Also during the heresy there were already special types of bolter ammo availiable, for example kraken rounds did exist already, but unique to the heresy where the tempest rounds that effectively turned the bolter into an airburst grenade launcher and the scorpius round, a super powered solid APFSDS-type of shell that was able to punch through terminator armor, although those were extremely rare. The alpha legion also had Banestrike rounds, developed to pierce power armor, altough not to the extend of vengeance rounds of 40k. Also during the heresy there used to be still a decent amount of volkite availiable, which was far more potent than bolters were. The only more advanced kind of weapon in 40k are the Grav weapons, but during the heresy there were graviton weapons. Altough Grav is better against heavy infantry graviton was better against tanks. But I do think that modern day marines on their own are better, since their training lasts way longer. Before you get to be a full fledged marine most aspirants get a decade of training and combat experience, whilst during the height of the crusade the recruitment time for an astartes was about a year. But then again due to doctrinal changes a heresy era tactical is more akin to a 40k scout, whilst a 40k tactical is closer to a 30k veteran. Primaris are a whole new topic to discuss, as the are physically better and have more advanced gear, but since they didnt get proper training they were more like the 30k marines that lacked the decades of experience regular marines had, so until they got they training regimen in order they were only useful to bulk out chapters that suffered a lot of losses, and those primaris that did survive and become veterans and rose through the ranks, or the older veterans that crossed the rubicon, are probably among the most lethal champions the astartes ever had.

[@bombvoyage5686]

@@michaelgrasser6553 I’m still kinda miffed by Majorkill’s hand waving of the redemptor dreadnoughts and other pieces of tech the crusade era marines had. As you said the number of unique bolt rounds was greater plus the volkite weapons I would think even the score a bit. The vehicles of the legions too are unmatched here as most modern marine tanks look like conversions of APCs and IFVs while the number of true tanks the legions had where nothing to snuff at. Overall I think majorkill here undervalues the crusade era and heresy era marines.

[@paimonisfood4986]

@@bombvoyage5686 He's still right though. Modern Space Marine Chapters are more effective due to their better gear (down to Astartes-level) and more efficient tactics. There's no comparison which is more powerful between a chapter and a legion. The Crusade Era also had better tanks and large equipment but modern chapters don't really act like armies but rather elite strike forces so they wouldn't need heavier and advanced equipment. The Chapters are more effective for the current state of the galaxy due to the spread out nature of threats to the Imperium. Also the video is about which type of Space Marine is better not a Chapter versus Legion comparison.

[@LouisKing995]

@@paimonisfood4986Except increasingly the chapters ARE coming together and acting like armies out of necessity, and their weaknesses in this regard are becoming clearer. We see this well in the devastation of Baal.

[@paimonisfood4986]

@@LouisKing995 That's just natural since the threats to the Imperium are doubling. Still having multiple Chapters play like armies have its advantages since they can work efficiently when going to war in larger scales since campaigns can now be done with 1000 Marines only.

[@chrisspink8873]

It’s cool we get to see this in the dark angels. With them having redeemed, first born and primaries. That combo will make them so unique in 10th.

[@ThunderQuack777]

A dark angels major mini would be pretty powerful

[@TheWarmachine375]

Roboute Guilliman once told Belisarius Cawl to not use the geneseed stocks of the Traitor Legions for the Primaris Project. He used them anyways.

[@user-kc5gf3rw3n]

😂😂

[@zeppelincraft1443]

Guilliman: Don't use traitor legions just to satisfy your curiosity Cawl. Cawl: LOGIC DICTATES OTHERWISE.

[@LupercalRising]

Guilliman forgetting Dantioch saved his and the Lions life

[@fg1735]

​@@LupercalRising Ah I see you're a man of culture as well

[@edwardheppenstall8690]

Cawl be like: "Heresy laws prepare to be ignored 😎"

[@Raubabbau]

I prefer the Crusade Marines. Just the heraldry and elaborately decorated armor. But unfortunately it will be a long time before there is the technology in RL to produce them as minis.

[@jeambeam3173]

Don't know what this is suppose to mean as the technology does exist today. You can buy crusade Marines because 30k Hours Heresy TT is a thing. You can also design and tweak them yourself with a 3d printer plus the programs on your computer to design them with

[@Raubabbau]

@@jeambeam3173 I mean these embellishments, ornaments and stuff like that, see for example in the old HH books. Very fine details, and I'm not sure if a 3D printer can do that.

[@Or_Am_I_Alpharius]

I Legion models from FW are ludicrously ornate, actually all the legion specific models are even the upgrade kits are. I think you mean more baseline legion specific troops like tactical, assault, heavy weapons instead of specialist units. It wouldn’t be a great idea until GW starts doing the fancy looking units in plastic and not resin. Otherwise imagine the cost of a whole legion sized squad of -insert basic unit here- marines that are as ornate as characters. FW models are *almost* not worth spending the money on but man do they look fantastic

[@tzaphkielconficturus7136]

@@Raubabbau I've seen some pretty fine detail on my friend's prints. It's certainly possible to do, though you'd need to do some cad work for each separate model design.

[@GoDSkRiLLa69]

These videos give me so many lil mind worms that bore down DEEP into my thoughts and give me so many little things to think about and look more into for my Warband's lore/backstory. Always the best!

[@TheWarmachine375]

Trazyn the Infinite did release several pre-Heresy Space Marine companies from his collection to take part of the defense of Cadia from the Forces of Chaos.

[@tdg9677]

I wish we got more lore on Tyberos the Red Wake, the dude is a utter beast!

[@jeambeam3173]

I wonder who is larger without power armor him or Abbadon

[@mightyphantom2176]

@@jeambeam3173Tyberos is definitely bigger

[@trevorfox5214]

I'm 99% sure Tyberos is confirmed to be the largest space marine ever

[@cnut7383]

@@mightyphantom2176 I wouldn't be too certain. I've heard that abaddon is almost the size of horus or at least is in his warplate. Tyberos is also almost primarch size

[@mightyphantom2176]

@@cnut7383 it’s been stated abbadon wears modified terminator armor to fit him while tyberos wears terminator armor modified with deadnought armor just to fit him. No armor expansion could accommodate tyberos’s size while abbadon is fine with size modified terminator plate. Also as someone said above im not sure if it’s confirmed but I believe tyberos is the largest space marine to ever live

[@redluke8119]

Its crazy to fathom when I first found this channel it was before his first Warhammer video let alone the dive into 40k. Amazing growth MajorKill been here since the pre Warhammer lore vids cant wait to be here for a million subs in a few years!

[@aaronritchie6426]

What came before?!

[@redluke8119]

@aaronritchie6426 before his 40k stuff? All his old content was wildly different. Man sonic the autist hedgehog was a wild time

[@whitlocktherevanchist5236]

Ya know, I always wonder why we don't see more astartes snipers. I know they are out there and some big name astartes like sharrowkin and Barthusa narek were snipers, but I'm surprised there aren't more stories about snipers considering the kind of sniper rifles you could make that only an astartes would be capable of handling since the kick back and size would be beyond what a human can shoot. I would just be interested in seeing how extreme they could take something like that. Although I did enjoy reading about fulgrim taking a sniper round to the eyeball even if it was only a needle.

[@crimsonknight7011]

I think a big difference is that the crusade era marines fought for glory and bragging rights with a lot competitions between legions (I mean look at Iron Warriors who felt they weren’t getting honorable objectives to boast about), until the Heresy of coarse. Now however instead of fighting for glory the space marines are fighting for survival and the jokes and happiness has come to an end (except the Wolves who really haven’t changed). So basically one fought for glory, the other is fighting to survive

[@casbot71]

All the merchandising and yet no MajorKill *condoms* ... with the logo; _"The Emperor Protects"_

[@seantjuhlolol]

Ok I wish you would make some longer deep dive vids, that being said. This is a really, really cool idea for a vid. In general nobody is directly comparing the difference between the spc mrns now with the herresy. You made the link and took it a steo further. And with the Lion being back and experiencing this atm makes the timing immaculate!

[@angusbrownlie6459]

Been a fan for a while now cheers mate for being the reason I’ve become a fan of war hammer and I keen to always hear a fellow Aussie

[@clairesincar9562]

I guess it depends on whether you go by the power of available equipment or by the quality of stable gene seed/ mental stability. If you go by the former, then it would likely be the primaris (Thanks to Caal), but if you go by the latter, it would definitely be heresy era marines. On a more personal note, I do like the heresy era marines better because thir armor (Much more beautiful than current makes) and personality. In the end experience would make a notable difference, but it depends on who is in said armor, too.

[@bensizerarabouali7242]

491K subscribers ! very underrated, one of the best warhammer 40K channels if not the best already. you and weshammer really deserve way more

[@Wildcat_93]

Your channel kicks ass man. Excellent work.

[@Channel-23s]

You should make a video which Legion had the most Elite warriors

[@jewsheisty8133]

Video on all primarch reaction to chaos and demons would be epic

[@The_Fumbles]

I really don’t know anything about 40k other than what I see in these videos but they are so addicting to watch

[@CorrodedFilms]

You should do a video on what happened to the countries on terra

[@MWH12085]

We now have actual Terran-born Dark Angeles in 'The Risen'....imagine if they crossed the Rubicon Primaris....holy shit

[@douglaswetak9686]

Something to quick think bout. Tyberous (big shark man) is already massive, and with one of the Primaris new gene seed making a marine taller than a firstborn, imagine if Tyberous crosses the Rubicon Primaris.

[@anthonylamonica8301]

Primaris Tyberos would be large enough to bend _Abaddon_ over one of his knees as he spanked the heresy out of him.

[@kingtorrhenstarkstark5311]

Man would need to wear dreadnaught armor by that point.

[@jeambeam3173]

​@@kingtorrhenstarkstark5311 he does already lmao or atleast the basis of his armor is still Terminator with Dreadnaught plating

[@douglaswetak9686]

His armor would probably just be the main chassis of a box dreadnought with modified terminator or dreadnought plating for his arms and legs.

[@Sorain1]

I am picturing a CSM mistaking him for a Primarch and having the utterly appropriate reaction to that thought.

[@anotharoundboi]

The nice thing Primaris got going is that the concept of replaceable parts has returned to the 40k setting (at least for the marines given their penchant to make everything a relic). Phobos, Tacticus, and Gravis are all modular components and the only thing you truly have to replace is the power plant when you go from Tacticus to Gravis.

[@RemoteEars]

That's part of what I hate about Primaris. Changes the setting from one of a decaying empire with relics, to just tacti-cool boring

[@detomnz2024]

@@RemoteEars but it is decaying, it got split into two

[@anotharoundboi]

@RemoteEars, not exactly. Eventually the Primaris will have Relics, at the moment they dont have because the setting only has moved roughly 2 centuries into the 42nd Millennium and that will never compare to the 10k yr history of the first born. . . so give them a chance and hopefully GW moves the timeline up to the point that Primaris are as renowned and soulful as their first born brethren.

[@gamechanger8908]

​@@anotharoundboi well... see ya when we have Warhammer 50K.

[@billjones110]

Honestly I think the faction that suffered the most from the Heresy was Ad-mech they basically became a twisted hybrid of a zaibatsu and the westboro Baptist Church.

[@ianyoder2537]

I'm guessing crusade because 40K is a fantasy setting cosplaying as scifi. And one of the undeniable laws of fantasy lore in any setting is the old peoples were bigger badasses than modern ones.

[@barlotardy]

I can recall reading in some of the older books (Can't recall specific ones) that heresy-era marines were generally bigger than their 40k counterparts.

[@zacharyweaver276]

That's incorrect some marines were bigger than average but that's more individual cases

[@warhammerwikipedia]

Another awesome video! After making a few lore videos on my own about Lion El'Jonson I do have to say Space Marines were a bit tougher back on the day, newer armour other than hand me downs, etc. Would love to collab at some point!

[@paulhille7006]

The only thing that the Crusade era Astartes legitimately have a leg up on their more modern counterparts is in their armored/tank units as well as their greater access to volkite, conversion-beam, gravity-based, etc., etc., weaponry (as the vast majority of that heresy pattern tech have been lost, forgotten, or become too resource draining to produce) Luckily Primaris do seem to be getting at least some volkite weapons, even if it’s only for the blade guard models for the moment

[@lordcrakkin965]

Excellent vid MK. How about this… Sigismun vs Dante????

[@EvolvedTactical]

Nice to see my boy Logan Grimnar getting some respect. For the record, the Mark X armor is pronounced "Mark Ten", X being the Roman numeral for 10.

[@gideonhorwitz9434]

I have always gotten the feeling that modern space marines before and after the fall of Cadia have a had to punch well above their weight. Loosing a single battle brother in a company of 100 out of a chapter of 1000 is a loss the time training and investment of resources that goes into a single space marine Which means they would have to kill 50-100 foes before going down in order to make itmake it a fair trade off of blood. which makes the death of a battle brother before battle is joined or by indirect means like explosions in transit or long range shots such a waste. What makes it worse is for a lot of the time an active chapter is barely operating at full strength or contributing more than a couple companies or squads to a battle. In lore it’s been known for a chapter to take almost a decade to fully rebuild their numbers that means they actively have to disengage and ignore calls for aid which they are honor and duty bound to answer. too do few chapters have the luxury to just withdraw from all conflicts. Which is a fundamental weakness of the modern astartes during the legion days they had better equipment purer gene seed and a larger recruitment pool and a massive support structure to facilitate large scale and fast recruitment. Hell during the crusade and heresy it was common practice for whole legion fleets would just break off from their main force and go out and do their own thing

[@trimeerious4349]

Getting a video about how each of the pre heresy primarchs would react to having the power and authority of Guillimans position as the lord commander and seeing how they rule their own galaxy would be pretty cool ngl .

[@tylercole3738]

Great video mate! Would love to see you cover the Last Chancers sometime, I just reread the first book in the series and would love to see your unhinged take on them!

[@exmaplecore4559]

Idunnooo we have some current undefeated Legionaries of Old still walkong around. Typhus recently killed the Nova Marines Chapter Master in the Dark Imperium Novel and it was a clear shut out. Kharn kills everyone and holds kills in the millions with several notable kills like Saint Celestine, Ahriman outsmarts and outplays everyone, including Space Wolves and Grey Knights. Which modern day space marines have legacies, legends, or reputations comparable to these ancient warriors or the ones I’m about to mention in the following paragraph? None really The recent Son of the Forrest Lion book shows how incredibly powerful the Fallen Dark Angels are. In addition, I doubt that Sevitar, Sigismund, Old Bjorn prior to Dreadnought and other noteworthies could be beat by anyone in 40k. I’d as far as to say that Dante, Calgar and others would fail to win a 1v1 against any of these Heresy marines I have mentioned due to these ancient marine’s superb track records outshining the current 40K hero’s track records. Dante’s, Calgar’s , Cato Sicarrius and lots of other modern marines have losses which they should have won but have fallen short, unlike the heresy era marines mentioned above With Sigismund’s track record of accomplishments, I fail to see how anyone in the current setting could beat him, Sevitar has unfair future sight abilities and he beat Sigismund, and the others I mentioned are insanely powerful and skilled In addition, current 40K Imperium has weaker adversaries than Horus Heresy Legions during the crusade, so Legionaries are overall better warriors. The Dark Angels alone fought more incredibly powerful exnos races, including the Rang Dang, some other horrible powerful exnos, the Ork Empire from Ulenor which was so powerful it took the combined effort of like 8 legions, half of all the space marines in existence to defeat and countless other terrible aliens which required legions to defeat, which the current Imperium never had to fight Also, the Legionaries of old had more archeotech and dark age of Technelogy, especially the Dark Angels. Their equipment was more hardcore and powerful, with Conversion Beamers, Space Marine Baneblades, Terminator Armor and other modern “Chapter Relics” being common and standard issue back in legion times. Their equipment was superior To add onto the idea that legionaries had superior equipment, these legionaries invented Space Marine vs Space Marine warfare and created special ammunition designed to counter Space Marine power armor. Legionaries where well equipped and ready to fight their own kind The legions also had superior tactics and equipment when compared to modern chapters. The Emperor’s Children where perfect in every tactical aspect, the Ultra Marines combat style was more organic, flushed out and more effective than the Codex Astartes sets the standard for, and legionary Shock and Awe tactics was across the board superior then when compared to current Marines. Current marines are generally less tactically diverse and lack the numbers, equipment and heart to mount an equivalent assault like the marines from the Great Crusade

[@chrissjduebochsjd3120]

One thing worth mentioning, many modern day space marines been fighting longer than most primarchs been alive. Hell even longer than the entirety of the great crusade

[@RobertFeatherston-rc2qe]

I'm excited to see the new merch drop once Majorkill hits half a million. Gimme a new sweater or some sweet T's eh?

[@zacharyweaver276]

I think the heresy era marines did have some better wargear in some instances from the imperium degrading over time but I don't think it makes a major difference with Cawl making new wargear for the primaris

[@allmyself666]

You know, i never thought about the efficiency differences like this before. I always just focused on how the Legions were scattered and how that would weaken the Imperium's fighting ability.

[@zakbook15]

i imagine fighting along side your primarch would give you a boost in will power and determination

[@zphill248]

A video comparing popular weapons effectiveness in lore verses table top stats. Ie how each factions common weapons stand up to other factions common foot soldiers and vehicles.

[@mitsutaki1446]

Hey man, you along with Weshammer we’re what got me into Warhammer, just wanted to say thanks

[@matiasyannuzzi9655]

The real advantage Crusade era marines have over Heresy and Modern era marines (although many Primaris units balance it out in their favor) is the equipment that's become rare with time: Contemptor, Leviathan and Deredeo pattern dreadnoughts, volkite being almost as commonplace as bolters, their very own superheavy tanks and transports (Falchion, Fellblade and Mastodon ftw), and flyers like the Xyphon interceptor or the Stormbird heavy transport.

[@youngsandwich5968]

I mean, considering how all the high tier relic armour, equipment, weaponry and vehicles are rare now compared to how common they were during the crusade.

[@swampking5417]

Majorkill, I love your videos but I do disagree in the Terminator a heresy era terminator would be borderline Unkillable with modern 40 K weapons the reason why is because of the harasser terminator power, armor has void shield meaning, it was leaps and bounds and protection 40 K terminator armor is shown to not be as durable and do still offers better mobility in that case the void shield that the one without overall love the channel you’re doing a great job. You’re the reason why I got into 40 K.

[@tau-5794]

Cataphractii armor is indeed more survivable than indomitus armor since it has powerful energy shield generators. It does not have void shields. It also lacks the advanced sensory arrays and some of the flexibility of indomitus armor.

[@thelion2751]

I like both but i have my own thing with each one, first the primaris weapons look cooler,but the crusader armor look cooler with the heraldry and veteran parts,the primaris have more stable geneseed,the crusader have a better personality,but with the new primaris the heraldry part and armor is going to change now that the primaris are combining parts of old armors with their own armor (the new figures)

[@griffinspady9019]

All your sales are dank! Great prices! I fuckin dig the dice! Im just tight on funds lately! Ill catch the next sale though!

[@freddymcshreddy6586]

Another point I’d like to make on current marines is they have to work even harder to make in impact whether it be in the setting or in battle due to many of them not being able to rely off their primarch being around. The level of responsibility for space marines has also rised significantly. Dante (a space marine) is now the lord regent and ruler of half the galaxy.

[@666Kaca]

Yeah boi your drunk streams are the best! Cant wait for the next one

[@withlovefromlightindust591]

Hello Majorkill, Would you please make some lore videos on the Imperial Truth, the Imperial Creed, the Ecclesiarchy, and the High Lords of Terra? Pretty please? Thank you.

[@chillingplace2014]

Almost at 500k let's f---ing go!!!

[@marka4891]

Got the Everything Bundle. Looking forward to what the 500k bundle is gonna be like in comparison.

[@Tagerrun]

You can tell majorkill has wanted that tattoo for a while now with how excited he was 😂

[@RamPants]

I don’t know why but it bugs me a lil you didn’t say “I, Cato Sicarius” in a high pitch voice 5:06

[@mogar2813]

Hey Majorkill! I was wondering if you were going to continue the “What Each Legion did During the Horus Heresy” series.I really enjoyed the one on the Dark Angels and I want to see more

[@HSPGelton2]

Majorkill, good luck in the push for 500k subs. I hope you go for an Imperial Eagle tattoo, shoulder-to-shoulder across the back.

[@paulellington1505]

Great video MajorKill. The Astartes are my favorite faction in Warhammer. How about doing a video about some of the lesser known badasses of the Legions. Or a what happened to video of characters like Maduson or Sharowkyn.

[@adrienwatson2179]

Mannnnnnn Dont be mentioning Shadrak Medusan I still hate the Iron hands because of that

[@spartanblu5862]

Each chapter is like a revised style of The Lodes where space morines could talk frealy with brothers leading up to the Heresy. But this way 1000 space marines can get close to each other and ultimately do their duty based on their chapters (Lodge) belief of the empereros will and acts accordingly. This way (over 10;000 years later) a wide diversity of specialized forces able to be used by the emperor. At the Crusade, it was legions of overwhelming estartes. But now their is a diverse group the Emperor will be able to use like 1000,s of scalpels to tear apart the enemies of Mankind when he resurrects and commands all the chapters with 10;000 years of history and unique chapters to destroy Chaoes

[@bigbean8343]

you gotta do a video on what each faction would do if they crushed all the others and won the setting

[@Uzzgub]

A Interaction for the Interaction God, a Comment for the Comment Throne, for the Almighty Algorithm

[@AdrianMartinez-ho6db]

For me there’s no contest. The 30k marines were whole legions strong and in some cases had dark age of technology weapons and war gear while the ones of today or measly one thousand strong chapters and as u said the 30k marines actually had personalities. Sure the ones of today are better prepared to fight the enemies of today but for me it’s still no contest but I’m only looking at it from a rather limited perspective

[@sonicwingnut]

Yeah I think he's way off on the equipment available to the 30K marines - primaris kit is better than a lot of standard 40K kit but most of the good stuff from 30K was lost by that period. The Redemptor dreadnought is huge but lacks the stability of the Contemptor, Deredeo or Leviathan dreadnoughts. Indomitus Terminator Armour is heresy-era, but was merely easier to produce than the Cataphractii or Tartarus patterns. And if you look at the tanks the Heresy era legions had they bollocked a lot of 40K stuff - yeah 40K has Fellblades and Falchions etc but not in anywhere near the quantities that 30K legions had.

[@brendenmalloy1596]

The war gear of the HH is better than of the modern setting. Volkite weaponry would shred modern space marine companies, the tanks of the HH and GC had more powerful weapons, the las gun, plasma weapons, bolt guns, auto cannons and other varients of space marine weapons were of a better quality than their modern 40k equivalents. The modern chapters do have experience over the legions but the chapter system is designed for maintaining the imperium, not expanding it. Essentially the modern imperium would burn through a ton of chapters if they had to fight battles of the same intensity that the legions had to fight in the HH. Whole companies and chapters of legions were wasted in single engagements because of how intense the fighting was. The closes 40k gets to that intensity of fighting in the HH is against thé Tyranids.

[@AdrianMartinez-ho6db]

@@sonicwingnut Yea. The armories of the space marines back then would honestly obliterate the enemies of today especially the tyranids

[@brazman1337]

Love your shit Majorkill keep it up

[@nathanshickle1100]

Love your videos mate! I can’t find one about Brother Captain Erasmus Tycho of the Blood Angels. Any plans to do one?

[@JeffGD03]

I gotcho Majorkill. Subbed!

[@PMAtreides]

I like your mma comparison for horus heresy/modern space marines. You could have been a beast during the pioneering days, but 10,000 years is more than enough time for leaps and bounds in evolution in doctrine, skill and strategy.

[@llorulez]

Heresy SIgismund would kick moloc's ass

[@Jansie_NL]

Lol, I had to leave half way through the video. Came back, booted up and was greeted by who I thought was Starscourge Radahn.... "What the hell are Rubric Marines doing fighting Radahn?" I thought... "Why does Radahn have wings all or a sudden?" *Epic Facepalm *

[@norse7796]

Great vid Majorkill, could you please cover gaunts ghosts in a vid?

[@123mason]

good stuff brothaa

[@gavin758]

you should get a friendlyjordies tattoo, so maybe he will finally get the 40k tattoo we weren't promised

[@TheDeadPoolfan]

Can you do a video about the "Feast of Blades"?

[@jaykeinnes6793]

It's surprising your growth stunted a bit, you where growing crazy fast for a bit there, surely a big boom is coming up. Let us all pray to the mighty algorithm that he blesses majorkill instead of being an asshole

[@shotgunsandsmoke]

I think on an even playing field we do it like this: Could the full strength XIII Legion defeat the Ultramarines and their successors’ combined strength? I think so. At least prior to 8e I thought they could.

[@BloodRaven744]

Well if it helps, I got a tactical marine blood raven in mk 4 Maximus armor, with a tigrus pattern bolter.

[@_spooT]

Imagine if Sharrowkin returns and gets a Primaris upgrade, or even Tyberos. Those two alone would be enough to give Chaos factions, especially the Night Lords and Word bearers, neverending PTSD

[@Microwave_King]

Most of the different types of bolts you listed (Kraken Bolts, Vengeance Bolts, etc.) are actually only available to the Deathwatch. Vengeance Bolts are actually specifically made to punch through power armor and kill space marines.

[@Ollidol]

In a marine on marine scenario modern. They have the training and experience of fighting other marines the old ones simpley does not. But in a legion on legion fight (pretend that a modern chapter reformed their legion) the old legions come out on top. They have access to gear the modern marines could only dream of. The old marines and legions served an empire that was living and thriving, the modern ones serve an empire that is stagnant and dying.

[@dudeboydudeboy-zj8kd]

lore on imperial navy, high lords, and ecclesiarchy please.

[@chriswhitson5934]

U should lowkey do a video on ammo types across all the different common armaments

[@Bonesaw4444]

On thing that also makes the modern marines more effective, is that the chapter get rewarded with founding a new chapter for performing well. So over the long run (aka. 10000 years) the doctrines that work get pushed, while doctrines that doesn't do not.

[@ArchAngelLevon]

10:05 I want to stop and take a moment to point out that Majorkill knows the difference between a Magazine and a Clip. What a fucking Chad-tier Australian.

[@secondarytrollaccount]

I have a question about the custodes guardian spear. I know it takes like 15 ppl to lift one, but considering it has more mass and is much heavier than a bolter would it be more manageable for those 15 to shoot the spear vs one non catachan person getting wrecked shooting a space marine bolter?

[@hexiron3852]

I'd make the argument that Cataphractii is superior to Gravis as an armor and weapon options, but gravis has the advantage of being more readily available and usable by comparison. Cataphractii also just straight up looks cooler imo.

[@mitchelarchbold9219]

They did bring back vulcite (I forgot how to spell it) but it's a pretty cool weapon

[@MajinOthinus]

Have to disagree. Everytime we see crusade era marines/veterans of the long war going up against modern marines, it's a no holds barred beat down that ends with the modern marines falling relatively easily. The Fabius Bile books make this point quite directly; even though it's just Fabius and a bunch of drug addled EC, they easily take over a space marine cruiser full of modern space marines. Fabius even remarks that standards seem to have fallen drastically.