Hermaeus Mora and Vaermina full fight Cinematic ft. Peryite. The Elder Scrolls

[@NoobSebot]

"You cant punish someone for what they might possibly do" So ironic, given she helped undermine Jyggalag's influence.

[@dddking9284]

Agreed Daedric Princes can certainly see circumstances change in each scenario

[@poknberry5795]

That is not the same in the slightest. Jyggalag was actively hosting a war against reality itself, remaking it in his image. And seemingly succeeding. It is my understanding that Ithelia was not doing this, but rather her mere existence made reality unstable. Imagine if you had a power that made reality unstable. Would you be willing to sacrifice yourself to prevent the possibility of hurting others? Well regardless sacrifice must be self sacrifice, otherwise it is just murder. That is what Mora did. Honestly I think I'd side with Vaermina on this and I'm surprised more people aren't

[@NoobSebot]

@@poknberry5795 It is the same in almost every way. I want to debunk this while being straight forward. - Jyggalag, he lost his power as a God, same as Ithelia - Both of their domains are no longer influencing the world - Both been silenced by Daedra The only key difference? Vaermina is a Daedra, she would favor things that benefit her. Of course, there is a vague reason for as to why she supports Ithelia, but it wouldnt matter, because the only difference is that SOME of the Daedric Lords apparently favored her reality bending powers - ESO never mentioned if Ithelia has intent in changing reality, despite her existence - ESO has not YET confirmed what Ithelia's goals are BUT none of that matters becauser at the end of the day? They both got booted out as Daedric Lords. EXCEPT ALL the Daedric lords were afraid of Jyggalag. AT LEAST half of the Daedric Lords do favor Ithelia, but Mora silenced her so reality doesnt collapse in itself. It was not at all confirmed or stated directly that ithelia sacrificed herself, its that Mora just silenced her and erased any memory of her existing as its apparent that ithelia is linked to memory (or perhaps all Daedra do) and if nobody remembers their domain or their existence, they go poof. And so what happens? Ithelia went poof. Jyggalag however, was cursed and was forcibly resigned from his position in power. The interaction between Vaermina and Mora heavily solidifies the point that Daedra ARE Hypocrites, they dont care as LONG as things favor them. And Jyggalag hosted a war against reality itself, because just like Ithelia, he is merely a slave to what he represents in his own Sphere. HE IS Order, He WILL FORCIBLY BEND reality to fit in a orderly fashion that HE SEES FIT. Ithelia would do the same, she would change reality, however its unstable because she bends fate and warps it. They both have reality warping powers, which is why they're both dangerous.

[@poknberry5795]

@@NoobSebot I'm talking about the ethical concerns of this. What I meant is that the situation with Jyggalag is different from that of Ithelia because Jyggalag actually intended to cause harm to the other spirits. Ithelia, as far as we currently know, did not. Therefore Jyggalag deserved his punishment. Ithelia did not. "You can't punish someone for something they MIGHT do." Mora erased Ithelia because her mere existence threatened reality, but that is not to say that she actually wished harm on anyone. It was merely the possibility, not the actual intention. And I believe that is morally detestable. Sure, one could argue that Mora could see the future and could see that regardless of her intentions, Ithelia would eventually destroy reality. But we know that Mora's predictions are not always right, fate itself is forever changing. He didn't give her the chance to let things play out. Even if he did it for the right reasons, I believe it was an immoral act. The Daedric Lords must hold some level of civility amongst one another, and I believe Mora's actions violate that civility.

[@NoobSebot]

@@poknberry5795 I will re read this at work. I dont wanna sound passive aggressive and I like this debate actually.

[@VictorIV0310]

Wonder wtf Miraak is up to here. Still chilling in Apocrypha.

[@alpacawizardman6778]

There’s a quest in one of the overland delves that suggests he’s already been working to undermine Mora. While he’s never mentioned by name, he is alluded to as “the First Servant”.

[@DagothUrAmaranth]

@@alpacawizardman6778You know some of your stuff. I will give credit where credit is due!

[@onlycorndog6322]

There's a quest where you learn that Miraak has been trying to tamper with Black Books in a way that would get him summoned out of Apocrypha when they're read in Tamriel. You stop him. Miraak is never referred to by name during the quest but it's very definitely Miraak.

[@roberthunter6122]

Peryite's VA was well picked, loving that Raspy voice he's got. Very fitting!

[@p.y.487]

It's not okay banning a reality shaping prince but it's okay to degrade the Prince of Order into a cheese loving psychopath... ._.

[@NoobSebot]

The two are the same, except Jyggalag is the least dangerous despite having little control over reality itself. Ithelia basically makes everything impossible possible, everything that can happen will happen, bad or good. Mora wanted to stop it because anything can happen when she's around.

[@joshuamourning6650]

I like the idea of lost princes of oblivion

[@gelonvia8525]

The princes we know are only the ones documented, its canonical that there are like anywhere from tens to hundreds more. Not lost, just not documented. She is the only lost Daedric Prince.

[@joshuamourning6650]

@@gelonvia8525 fair point maybe there is a daedric prince of hunger which gave molag bal the idea of vamprism and this prince could be like a badass blood god

[@drcalliber732]

@@gelonvia8525 No, no there’s not. It’s canonical there’s 2 daedric princes for every aedra. The Aurbis is built like a wheel, where the daedra represents the spaces of the wheel, and the aedra represent the spokes of the wheel. Given there’s 9 aedra it makes sense there are now 18 confirmed daedric princes. For awhile there was 16, then jygylagg appeared. After Ithelia now there are 18 for the 9 aedra.

[@kyron9662]

@@drcalliber732 wait but there are 8 divines currently? Talos doesnt exist yet until sometime in the 3rd to 4th era

[@drcalliber732]

@@kyron9662 Eh he probably does given when he achieved CHIM a dragon break occurred and went back in time. He changed cyrodil from a harsh jungle to a beautiful fertile land, and given ESO’s cryodil isn’t a harsh jungle I would say Talos does indeed exist. Either way Talos is really just the reincarnation of Lorkhan so he’s not an entirely new entity per say, rather a reiteration of a pre-existing divine.

[@UlixesStolatus]

ft Peryite, story of his life lol

[@Warrior_Whitten]

You can see the back side of Mora if you stand off to the side. It’s pretty interesting

[@tally9542]

is he Smash or Pass

[@MrBigshow234]

@@tally9542Definitely smash lol

[@silaf1496]

Finally something new in the lore! Quite frankly i agree with Vermina and Perythe.

[@Cl0udn1n3]

Yeah same, i'd love to see Ithelia break free.

[@charlesthepleb]

Same fuck Mora

[@HeyHax]

I'm mad as hell. I thought it was going to be jyggalag

[@STATUS_AW0L]

I thought so too

[@consumerjtc5835]

Wouldn't Jygallag be prancing around as Sheogorath at this point in time.

[@STATUS_AW0L]

@@consumerjtc5835 he would considering this was centuries before the oblivion era greymarch, but until Ithelia was mention only prince to be conspired against to a magnitude that is a joint alliance of other princes it was Jyggalag

[@GazingTrandoshan]

@@consumerjtc5835 That and hes not like erased, hes just not worshiped but is still mentioned here and there

[@assassinwolf2719]

Wait what if the main story of Elder Scrolls 6 is to stop the world ending from Ithelia’s influence?

[@howdragonborn8237]

Normally eso will make another dlc for the remaining story of a chapter

[@charlesthepleb]

Destroying mora sounds more fun

[@cedriclacomblez9827]

Well, there is still Jyggalag.

[@kriidk9827]

I think the elder scrolls 6 will focus more on the aldmeri dominion as main protagonist rather than daedra invasion

[@jgon12]

They finally made a good story after summerset !! I will say it but probably alot wont agree its a 8/10 chapter for me. Good story , nice area , difficulty was good , and new class instead of a card game.

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

elsweyr was amazing too. and while having problems Markarth gave us the best villian we had Rada al-saran and Fargrave make me forgive every problem about blackwood. Seriously story wise none of the chapters were bad.

[@kyron9662]

@@berilsevvalbekret772 i mean high isle wasn't really good story wise

[@alpacawizardman6778]

I do like the small addition they made to tot, though. This chapter overall has been really amazing.

[@GazingTrandoshan]

@@kyron9662 It was alright, side quests were fine

[@zurinarctus1329]

Power hierarchy in Aurbis (TES verse): Et'Ada (Original Spirits) who are outside of the wheel > Daedric Princes/Aedric Gods or any god with a Plane(t) of Existence who decided to live within the Wheel of Aurbis that is composed of Aetherius, Oblivion, Mundus and other outer realms > Demiprinces/Demigods (offsprings of Daedric Princes/Aedric Gods) > Minor gods and Ideal Masters who are Platonic conceptual > Celestials (ESO revealed these beings tied as constellations that protect Mundus, and their true form can destroy Mundus by sheer presence) > Daedra Lords/Small puny gods/Local gods (each of them is multi-universal to multiversal) > Mortals (tiers of mortals are even deeper because we have dimensional people using maths as weapons, not the Hist). Above Et'Adas, you will have greater Et'Adas like Aka-Tusk or Lorkhan at their prime < Anuiel/Sithis < Anu/Padomay < CHIM < Amaranths (Godhead).

[@NoobSebot]

Correction. Daedra lords are actually equal to that of a Demiprince. Daedra lord is just a title of significant strength in daedra hierarchy. Demiprinces ARE daedra lords, but not all Daedra lords are demiprinces. Daedra lords are what Daedea refer to as “Demigod level Daedra” and The Daedra are just higher up Daedra lords, practically snd genuinely god level and far beyond what a typical daedra lord shouldve been.

[@LordMiraakedits2142]

CHIM and Amaranth is not the strongest, both are fodders tbh (Amaranth is not canon, only Godhead)

[@zurinarctus1329]

@@NoobSebot Daedra lords are rather an universal term. I was referring to the Daedras who rank beneath Demiprinces. They are lieutenants for Demiprinces and Daedric Princes who do lesser bidding. Like Anhaedra or Jaciel Morgen.

[@NoobSebot]

@@zurinarctus1329 I was more or less adding on to the fact that Demiprince and Daedric lords have no real power gap between each other and rather synonymous even. Indeed they are a universal term, but Demiprinces are in fact Daedric Lords, because they have the power equivalent to one. A daedric lord is 'A higher tier Daedra" Quite literally, so they're equal in power. Its way more than just a ""Universal term" Because In fact, Daedric Princes are Higher Daedric Lords themselves, because theyre too are Daedric Lords.. All Demiprinces are Daedric Lords, but not all Daedric Lords are Demi princes. Daedric Lords in general is a label that signifies a certain power level in Eso lore. Demiprinces are just half Daedra, some of them arent Daedric Lords (I think?) but so far, they generally describe them having the same power as a Daedric lords. So they're equal in the tier list, except if theyre legit Lieutenants then I can see why some are weaker. But no stress, like I said. Its more of my own personal belief, but ur tier list is accurate as hell to me. But no stress. I get what you're aiming at.

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

All Daedra and Aedra are Et'Adas.

[@Smug_Adam69]

Im starting to wonder if the vestige is a avatar of Ithelia

[@sevenheavens-gj9qq]

Me too. How else can they see Torvesard? How else can they not be affected by all the plague? I’m starting to think Ithelia has a hand in the Prisoner (aka us, the vestige, the dragonborn, the nerevarine, the player character, you name it) because we make our own fate.

[@alpacawizardman6778]

I love that idea honestly, and I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought of it. You’re a Hero, so technically, you can control the flow of fate to a degree.

[@sevenheavens-gj9qq]

@@alpacawizardman6778 for real, I saw a theory that Ithelia, being the Prince of Paths, of CHOICE, should act through the prisoners (vestige, tld and so on) because we naturally can change destiny.

[@DagothUrAmaranth]

The Daedra and Aedra do hold the Prisoner’s fate completely. All of them do, but due to Ithelia’s realm, Herma-Mora seen her as a huge threat to reality. Of course, Ithelia is no Jyggalag, but she still scared Hermaeus Mora. A feat that’s near impossible

[@DagothUrAmaranth]

@@sevenheavens-gj9qqchange destiny on solely Nirn. The whole Shivering Isles questline is the will of Sheogorath.

[@seanpcoon]

I definitely prefer Skyrim's depiction of Hermeus Mora, something about his slow and yawny speaking, as well as the visuals, feel much more in tune with the whole lovecraftian bookkeeper thing they have set up for him. ESO's depiction feels more fanfic-ish, the writing doesn’t help either, the wordchoice feels way too expository rather than the way he remained elusive to revealing just enough to get what he wanted in Dragonborn. The daedric princes also seem way less powerful in their presentation in ESO as well, the sense of scale feels way to small here, a clash between gods(from a narrative perspective they are gods. Yes, I know they aren't the divines, but they should have that same sense of power.) should feel catastrophically huge. Granted, I haven't really played ESO, so I'm just basing my thoughts off of the little tidbits I see here.

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

Because it isn't a situation to BE elusive. Mora is in complete control in skyrim. He ISN'T in necrom.

[@seanpcoon]

@berilsevvalbekret772 yeah, I kind of get that. But I think there's definitely other ways they could've written him that fit more in line with how we've seen him charcterized before. I don't really play ESO, and i haven't seen all that much from Necrom, so I can't fully speak to the complete writing, it just seems off with how they've written him from what i saw in this video in particular. To give credit to the writers, I think it's pretty hard to writ Mora as compelling as he is in Dragonborn without him being in control, his whole character works best when he really dominates the situation I think. To me, Mora kind of works best as an Odin type of trickster God.

[@ethanburn8574]

Genuinely impressed with how bold it is to make a completely new Prince when they had a perfectly good shoe in with fucking Jyggalag. They could have had Torvasard become a Knight of Order upon regaining his memories and thus his connection to his Prince. We could have had him creating Knights and Obelisks of Order that functioned like Anchors/Harrowstorms and gave new Daedra and lore to Jyggalag. They could have even had us, along with Mora, invade the Shivering Isles to make sure Torvasard didn't destroy Sheogorath to release Jyggalag, but no. They pulled Ithelia out of bumfuck nowhere and I am forever going to be annoyed by this.

[@MsQuikly]

me too, god fucking dammit me too.

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

Why? Jyggalag is done and not to mention there is centuries until the end of the second era.

[@georgejennings8743]

Pretty cool finisher on Vermina can’t lie

[@trevorsamuels8392]

I feel like peryite was probably under used here, he's literally the God of diseases. If he wanted, he could have brought back the plague unleashed by the sload's or the blight from morrowind, hell, he could have even combined them to form something new. Peryite is literally the most powerful deadric prince in existence aside from sheagorath, lorkahn, and hermaeus. The opportunity is there, it's just constantly thrown out the window.

[@AngSco30]

It seems kind of out of character for Peryite to unleash some aggressive plague that would wreak the same level of destruction as Molag Bal or Mehrunes Dagon. You've got to remember, he's "the daedric prince of tasks, order and pestilence". He's all about maintaining the "natural order", so his plagues and diseases are his way of indirectly doing that. He doesn't seem to be concerned with overturning the "natural order" by inflicting a new plague that would wipe everyone out or permanently change everything.

[@trevorsamuels8392]

@AngSco30 True, I forgot what most of his actual role was which was to pretty much replace the earthbones. Although he is more than capable of ending the entire world, much less all of reality in the elder scrolls. Control over disease and the natural order of life itself is the most powerful ability you can give something. Need to take out a rather annoying deadric prince who's going against the natural order to accomplish his goals? Get peryite involved and he can just give you the ability to spread a disease that heavily debilitates deadric princes except himself to the point they're mortal or can just make you immune to the cycle of death. His power literally goes above everything, barring maybe akatosh and lorkhan. Peryite, isn't weak by any means at all plus he could just be fooling everyone into thinking he's peace loving. After all, the nature of a disease is never clear on the surface level, let alone with life itself.

[@AngSco30]

@@trevorsamuels8392 He's definitely not weak, that's for sure. All of the Princes are extremely dangerous in their own ways. I think Peryite gets called one of the weakest purely down to the fact he rarely takes direct action against the natural order as that would kinda undermine what we can assume is his role. As for being able to debilitate another Daedra, I think he could definitely hamper another Prince's plans but that's true for all of them. They all have their spheres and they can utilise them to undermine another Prince but none seem to have the power to outright destroy one another. The only one in the lore that came close to seemingly having that power was Jyggalag, and even then he wasn't enough to overpower the other Princes when the united against him. Still, Peryite's definitely one of the most interesting Princes in my opinion purely because he's so mysterious.

[@trevorsamuels8392]

@AngSco30 Dude, everything in the elder scrolls can get sick, everything. I'm positive even the deadra aren't immune to every single disease. It's why the sload were so powerful in their heyday, because they literally engineered a disease to kill everything on tamriel. We've already seen just how potent biological warfare can be in the elder scrolls universe so Peryite could do that but to a far greater extent. The only thing keeping him from being like that is his role in replacing the earthbones and the fact he's one of the good deadra. But I can guarantee that anything that screws with him or the order he protects, will experience something none of the other deadric princes can do. I mean read the beggar prince for instance, dude was rewarded by being turned into the walking poster boy for disease, how do you think peryite deals with his enemies?

[@trevorsamuels8392]

@AngSco30 Not to mention that everything is under his influence, anything that is part of the natural order (this includes deadric princes) is literally under his influence. He could screw over every deadra in existence if he wanted to. Even something as powerful as akatosh would be under his influence because time is part of the natural order.

[@yourfriendlyneighbourhoodl6206]

The title sounds like a song title

[@dovahkiin7253]

This feels so out of character for the daedric princes, Vaermina is supposed to be one of the most evil princes. Why is she so upset about everyones memories being wiped.

[@GazingTrandoshan]

Because shes apart of that, clearly she doesnt want it and also her thing is dreams too . Memories are apart of that

[@IceBankMiceElf_873]

Idk how i got here. I just needed a recipe for brownies.

[@belladonnaofsadness981]

why they decided to create duplicate for already existing daedric prince?

[@howdragonborn8237]

Because they want to attract old players of other elder scrolls games.

[@DagothUrAmaranth]

Daedra are not bounded by their spheres of influence. They choose what they want to be. That’s why some spheres overlap. Boethiah completely took what Lorkhan was and made it their sphere. Daedra have a lot of fate stuff to their title, Ithelia is no different except that Hermaeus Mora fears her. Which makes her the 3rd or 4th strongest Prince by sheer fear.

[@vastolorde1737]

Mora doesn't control fate rather he influences is to his liking while Ithelia could straight up change fate how ever she wanted to anyone she wanted to so which is what he was scared of and princess spheres sometimes overlap difference being they encumber different aspects of said sphere and happens with aedra as well like dibella covering the aspects of sex that are positive while mephala and sanguine represent the bad aspects of it and with Hircine focuses on the hunt but not just hunting prey but other things you want which also does include sex as he also respects the chase people go on for it

[@christianbolze7092]

And Peryite can still destroy Apocrypha and destroy it with his plague.

[@drcalliber732]

Na you cant destroy a daedric prince or their realm. He can severely weaken it, but can’t destroy it.

[@alpacawizardman6778]

⁠@@drcalliber732the Deadlands dlc actually has some evidence that Dagon may have actually destroyed a Daedric Prince. Their realm, Deadlight, is still around and in shambles, but there’s no sign of the Prince themselves.

[@DagothUrAmaranth]

You're joking right?

[@DagothUrAmaranth]

@@alpacawizardman6778 Peryite is STILL the weakest Daedric Prince.

[@alpacawizardman6778]

@@DagothUrAmaranth the power of the Daedric Princes isn’t measurable by conventional means, so calling him ‘weak’ because he doesn’t show the same grandeur as Molag Bal or the likes is already flawed. Technically, the power of the Princes is tied at least partially to their recognition and worship, thus their influence over mortal affairs; if we are basing their strength solely on how much they’re worshipped, then Jyggylag and [REDACTED] are definitely the weakest, not Peryite. Let’s also not forget that Tamriel has repeatedly been devastated by sickness. If the Thrassian Plague and/or Knahaten Flu been created by Peryite, the common folk would be spinning much different tales about him.

[@shijihn]

Now that I remember this, not sure why neither of these Daedra made an appearance in the new chapter.. Honestly, the new chapter felt rushed, weird, missing a lot of depth.. felt like it was made by a completely different writer.

[@howdragonborn8237]

its zone has 5 quest only

[@konsama1315]

fan fic tier prince

[@syruscoy1244]

The writing... isn't that good... But at least we get something...

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

Why? How it isn't good??

[@sevenheavens-gj9qq]

what is even going on? 😂

[@BlisteryDuke29]

i lost brain cells trying to understand this confusing quest line 💀😂

[@mr.jameson218]

This writing feels so off. This entire game does. Molag Bal defeated in his own realm? A Wattpad daedric prince? Mora acting mirthy with a mortal?

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

my man. Lore is wacky as all hell. also in lore we KNOW for a fact there are many many more of the princes just like magna-ge and other Et'ada. Molag was nuked by meridia first THEN we have took the power off Akatosh not to mention fate's chosen as the Prisoner. I mean according to Vivec he slept with Bal for the CHIM and THESE are weird to you?

[@DagothUrAmaranth]

People ignore Meridia's involvement completely lol.@@berilsevvalbekret772

[@idkjustshush4773]

Idk about the voice acting either. As annoying as it was in Skyrim mora taking 5 minutes to say anything fits him so much more

[@tperfectorganism4520]

I mean you were empowered by all 8 divines to be able to beat Molag bal, lol. It only took an Avatar of Akatosh to both beat Dagon and repair the barriers of oblivion. So…yea. Mora was hella desperate

[@mattblack3813]

Man I thought the same thing. I don’t play ESO but I try to keep up with the lore, but yeah stuff like “you can’t punish someone for what they might do” and all the talk about “all the princes must agree” seems wildly out of character for the way a Daedric Prince should be talking.

[@Bleachigo162]

Anyone else hate eso for adding so much horrible lore and taking opportunities away from mainline games

[@howdragonborn8237]

@@Bleachigo162 it is like dragon ball super

[@thelettucebarrel7784]

The lore is very hit or miss, some of it is really good and adds to the world but some of it is just kinda whatever.

[@Bleachigo162]

@@thelettucebarrel7784 probably around 30/70

[@thelettucebarrel7784]

@@Bleachigo162I’d say it’s an even 50/50.

[@KreazGangsta]

Well thanks for the spoiler gonna get blocked

[@corporateturtle6005]

lol you clicked on the video 🤡

[@sevenheavens-gj9qq]

well you shouldn’t have watched it anyway 😂 your fault.