hermit the frog || spottedleaf & thistleclaw pmv (warrior cats)

song is hermit the frog by Marina & the Diamonds
so the story here is kinda split in 3 stages:
1. right after spottedleaf’s heart; spotted and thistle are tense around each other after spottedleaf gets away from him. spottedleaf seeks protection in her med cat duties and in starclan, but she still feels haunted by the cat she sees every day. still she doesnt know why he makes her so viscerally uncomfortable
2. flashback!! spottedpaw has fully caught thistleclaw’s attention, and she doesn’t know any better
3. spottedleaf, older now, has realized the situation she was in and feels angry at herself, thistleclaw, and even starclan for what happened. looking back, she feels helpless because no one would’ve suspected thistle to be a gr**mer-cats like bluefur knew he was a bad guy, sure, but not a predator. no one recognised it, but now spottedleaf does, and she recognises it when firepaw shows up
PS spottedleaf deserved better from the authors :-( she was a very interesting character in the books but didn’t get much focus other than being the “pretty girl love interest”
Characters:
Bluefur
Spottedleaf/paw/kit
Thistleclaw
Random starclan cats
Tigerpaw
Tiny

[@annemeownie]

I love this. The way she frowns as an adult when she realizes she was in a position that reminded her of when she was an apprentice really hits hard I used to love mah boi Thistle, but istg that book just ruined him and I couldn’t see him the same way again 😭💔

[@puppydogs68]

Literally my thoughts throughout the entirety of that book: Spottedleaf’s novella didn’t happen 🙂 Spottedleaf’s novella didn’t happen 🙂 Spottedleaf’s novella didn’t happen 🙂 Spottedleaf’s novella didn’t happen 🙂 …I’m ok 🙂. *screams into pillow as a former Thistleclaw fan*

[@cosmichail]

SAME.. I used to like Thistle too but man.. :')

[@Skewer-rat]

I just disregard spottedleaf’s heart and clarify that I liked thistleclaw before that came out😭😭😭

[@FallenLionArt_]

Thistle used to be my favourite until now 😭

[@lemonballs]

thistle was weird during bsp too ngl

[@dreamfletcher779]

I love this. The way this narrative was handled in the books was fucking atrocious, but the fandom is honestly why I even care about these (tbf? shoddy, disorganized, half-baked) cat books still and engage with the material. The fandom collectively is something the Erin team could never be, and this piece exemplifies that. I can't blame people who choose to reject Spottedleaf's Heart as canon but I always love portrayal of the story and its subject matter like you did here.

[@Kumonekowo]

Yeah, I don’t really like considering it canon, especially since Thistleclaw wasn’t even meant to be playing the part of a gr00mer. But I do enjoy these pmv’s, and honestly consider it a seperate version of the warriors lore :)

[@LocalChaos-8217]

I genuinely want to leave the fandom, I hate it but it’s got such a grasp on me and I just can’t, too many ocs, lore, ect.

[@lemonballs]

im actually crying..this book came out while i was being groomed and looking back on it, i can see why thistleclaw was my groomer's favourite character. you captured the cycle of feelings of lust, guilt, anger, and sadness that victims go through.

[@Thefangedbuck]

God. That is really fucking disgusting. What they did to you is horrible and I hope you can recover.

[@fartguzzler]

Honestly, kids who get groomed just have shitty parents. If you don't teach your kid what to look out for, they're prolly going to get traumatized from people online

[@fartguzzler]

Sorry that happened to you.

[@lemonballs]

@@fartguzzler aww, thanks for the comment. i had to do a lot of healing last year, but i'm finally at a place where i can stop blaming myself and move on

[@dogqueen1247]

Thistleclaw is disgusting because 1. He groomed Spottedleaf 2. He got so mad at Bluefur/star because of Snowfur running on the thunder path just to groom Spottedleaf 3 moons or more later

[@Mothcat.]

YES I WANTED THE FACT THAT SHE TURNED FIREPAW BROUGHT UP!! I think her being in a position of power over Firepaw like Thistleclaw was with her made her almost fearful of her turning into him and realizing the trauma she went through. I hate the people who completely brush it under the rug. I know if Spottedleaf brought up what happened to Bluestar Bluestar would have went right to the dark forest and murdered Thistleclaw on the spot

[@IPlayWithFire]

Oh yeah, on the topic of Bluestar, Moonflower was groomed aswell.

[@Grace-2010op]

​@@IPlayWithFireyep! And it pisses me off that's not talked abt at ALL

[@IPlayWithFire]

@@Grace-2010op FRRRR

[@miadao7094]

@@IPlayWithFirewait by who?

[@lonemew3503]

@@miadao7094 Stormtail

[@puppydogs68]

Omg, FINALLY someone draws the connection between SpottedThistle and SpottedFire…I can’t understand how people hate SpottedThistle so much but like SpottedFire. They’re both HORRIBLE and have a huge p*do age gap. The Thistleclaw situation is obvious and Spottedleaf liking Firestar is like teacher x student. Maybe Spottedleaf, having been gr00m3d at a young age, thought it was okay to do the same thing on a lesser scale to Firestar. Either way Sandstorm and Snowfur are rolling in their graves rn lol 😂

[@minecraftstar_]

Met a SpottedThistle shipper the other day, they even said themselves how they find SpottedFire similar. Why they shipped either, I have no clue, and I wish to never meet them again

[@lemonballs]

she never liked firestar but ight

[@Fizzyflight627]

@@lemonballsshe did, it says it in the last hope when she dies a second time. Firestar crouched beside Spottedleaf’s trembling body. Blood welled at her neck, soaking Firestar’s cheek as he pressed against her, “Spottedleaf! Please don’t go.” Dovewing heard a sob in his mew. “You promised you’d be there to welcome me.” Spottedleaf gave a tiny shake of her head. “That was never going to happen, my love. I cannot journey with you anymore. I’m so sorry.” Firestar pawed at her. “No! I still need you!” - The Last Hope, page 315.

[@essyr1715]

Didn't they say in the book that Spottedleaf was a young cat? (I may be wrong tho, I still don't like the ship) Still, the age gap between Thistleclaw and Spottedleaf is HUGE! How about Ashfur and Squirrelflight tho?💀

[@puppydogs68]

@@lemonballs she did later. It’s like a teacher having a student and then liking that student when they become an adult. Not okay.

[@fireworksforme2]

Criminally underrated, the art is amazing and this is finally a take on spottedleaf’s character that ISNT JUST “pretty girl!”

[@kaysrandomchannel4618]

YEAH!

[@elitekitkat]

Good video, I like your designs, the song fits them, and I agree that Spottedleaf could've been more but female characters aren't allowed such things in warrior cats.

[@kaysrandomchannel4618]

Yup.

[@SharkyPopTart]

I absolutely love the portrayal of Thistleclaw and Spottedleaf here, as you can actually see Spottedleaf's guilt over something that wasn't her fault. And the cycle continues when Rusty joins the clan, but I've always liked Spottedleaf and I like how here you show her guilt over having feelings for Rusty.

[@cosmichail]

OOOO THIS IS SO UNDERRATED!! What a lovey PMV exploring her character! I genuinely wish her character was explored like this in the books :')

[@BlueTalesWcue]

omg yes! the contrast between thistleclaw and spottedpaw to spottedleaf and firepaw. the way thistleclaw treated her, she thought it was okay to be attracted to firepaw.

[@me-sg8og]

spotted looking uncomfortable near firepaw at the end,, im crying,,, amazing job by the way!! your take on spottedleaf's heart is so unique!

[@glamourrock3170]

Woahhh that ending! Honestly, I think Spottedleaf's heart had th potential to explore such a dark topic in a meaningful way, but from what I hear it was the wring audience in the wrong way. This pmv is super good, looking into what happened to Spottedl3af and still portraying it as bad

[@kaysrandomchannel4618]

Yeah. Sometimes the community is smarter than the creators themselves. What a damned world we live in.

[@amycontreras410]

I love this so much! I clicked because your designs and art style caught my attention, I love your use of pixel art! And your designs are so good!! Also great song choice, absolutely fits the situation. I really appreciate how you used it to help show that Spotted was hurt and ANGRY at what happened, as realistically that's what often happens in that type on ab*se (censored in case KZbin acts up) And how even though she got away from stinky Thistle, he's still there. And she's still haunted by flashbacks and it gets worse at the end when little Firepaw rolls in.. This is how I feel like SpottedLeaf's ordeal with her trauma from ThistleClaw should have been portrayed!! The books did a terrible job augh. Thank you so much for putting this out, it's awesome! 💜

[@kaysrandomchannel4618]

Poor Spottedleaf. Thistleclaw sure as heck deserved to go to cat-hell.

[@huntercass7890]

i cant believe im saying this but.. the reason he's in the dark forest isnt because he had sexual attraction towards spottedpaw😭 but because he trains her in dark forest and i remember he killed some cats. so to be realistic, if he mated with spottedpaw without killing a cat or train her in the dark forest. he can go to starclan😭😭 because cats usually dont care about mating age, if the female is in heat then they just mate. no matter how old the shecat is, but im happy erin hunter didnt include how cats actually mate and how they dont care about age👍

[@goosebackes5416]

Wow. I wasnt expecting the last frame and its actually super thought provoking

[@junkiechurch]

SAME i literally sat there with my mouth gaped open because i was shocked i hadnt thought of it that way

[@Haihapp3n]

i'm so in love with this pixel art

[@Mynn7]

Spottedleaf is a good example on how the abused becomes the abuser

[@giant-enemy-spider]

How is she an abuser? /genq

[@pinksoda7325]

@@giant-enemy-spider EDIT: ack sorry for the long comment!!! i was bored :,D just in my opinion she let her affections for fireheart impact his life in bad ways especially after she went to starclan, instead of just stubbing out his childhood crush on her. personally i wouldnt call her an abuser but i think her childhood did affect her view on relationships (especially with age gaps) and she didnt always make the best choices :P but the thing is the books dont elaborate on this stuff that much so, it’s really just up to personal interpretation-i can totally see why people love spottedleaf like a saint but others hate her like the plague

[@axelf9947]

Moonkitti actually has a good video on this. While alive, Spottedleaf never shows ANY sort of reciprocation for Firepaw’s feelings whatsoever. She doesn’t indicate a single hint of attraction or even much fondness- they interact a total of three times that we see, and in one of those times she’s actually kinda rude to him. I think there’s an instance where she leans on him v lightly for like a second, but it just comes across as general politeness rather than affection (the cats were much more touchy feely in the first arc anyways). If anything she was dismissive and didn’t pay him much attention, which can easily be interpreted as her intentionally pushing back against his pretty obvious crush. She never displayed any signs of liking Fireheart back until after she died AND he was an adult- so I don’t think it’s fair at all to call her a gr**mer or an abuser when by all book evidence she seemed to be going out of her way to avoid exactly that. I hope I make sense.

[@Mynn7]

@@axelf9947 a textbook definition of grooming is when an adult grooms a minor all the way up until adulthood so they can reciprocate feelings “safely”. It doesn’t make it any less creepy or predatory that spottedleaf waited until firestar was “of age.” And even then, she still plagued his mind as a young newly made warrior. So sick of people defending her disgusting actions solely because nobody takes women groomers seriously. It’s repulsive

[@axelf9947]

My point is that she did absolutely nothing and barely interacted with him when he was a kid- she clearly had no feelings for him until after he was fully grown. It’s still odd bc of the age gap, but that’s unfortunately a common thing in Warriors anyways. She never groomed him at all is what I’m trying to say, it’s very clear in Into the Wild that Firepaw’s crush on her was entirely one-sided lol

[@maplefoxxo]

This is so good ugh ive rewatched this two times and AGHH i loce this style!! You make such good videos??! So quickly too wow bruh

[@muffinsaur.]

i like the parallel(?) between spottedpaw and firepaw, i don't really have anything major to say about the book since i havent read it i just like how they're being compared

[@Nasty_littleg00ber]

This actually shows how awful age gap relationships are in real life aswell as warrior cats as we see a lot of apps falling for warriors spotted paw/leaf with thistle claw, Fire paw/heart/star with spotted leaf, Cinder paw/pelt with fire heart/star ,fern paw with dust pelt, moon kit/paw/flower with storm fur, Bristle paw/frost with stem leaf and etc. it shows how terrifying and fucked up warrior cats can be when it comes to some parings that I mention and although some didn’t get with those warriors it was still scary and it’s a huge problem in our society today and I think it should be discussed with the government and taken to court if things get out of hand

[@madmadammelzy]

This song is so good and the song fits them!

[@Wolvesandwarriors1]

I rarely ever comment nowadays but this is beautiful. Thank you so much for making this.

[@Caprineki]

That ending hit me like a truck

[@-lowquality-3384]

The last part is genius never thought about it

[@AshEnd-mw3xn]

Thistleclaw is a terrible cat... why the book pays so little attention to this. He was dating a cat that was younger than his own son. and who still think that he deserves to be in the Star Clan? and the Spottedleaf reacted too calmly, which is unnatural. It is impossible to believe that she has survived the trauma and now risks repeating the path of the Thistle. Why didn't the Hunters go all the way and convey the whole message of the book? as a person who communicates with a victim of such violence, I despise this book.

[@robyynclark]

This looks so good!! Your art style is great :D

[@ThatOneGoldFishWCUE]

Love how it shows how Spottedleaf actually groomed Firepaw like Thistleclaw groomed her

[@_The_Lizard_King]

She didn't, though?? It's showing how her being a victim of grooming *almost* warped her perception of right and wrong, resulting in confusion about her feelings.

[@ThatOneGoldFishWCUE]

@@_The_Lizard_King well yes, but she still technically groomed him

[@_The_Lizard_King]

@@ThatOneGoldFishWCUE Do you actually know what grooming is...?

[@ThatOneGoldFishWCUE]

@@_The_Lizard_King yes, and although I like Spottedleaf as a character her experience with thistleclaw twisted her reality of what’s ok, and what’s not. Therefore she groomed FirePaw, although not with bad intent,

[@_The_Lizard_King]

@@ThatOneGoldFishWCUE Just because she was friendly towards Firepaw, that doesn't make her a groomer. Did she form a relationship with Firepaw and gain his trust to abuse and exploit him for her own sick desire? No. No, she did not.

[@Cody_Wolf1]

Justice for Spottedleaf! TwT

[@richieIT]

Your art is so nice!

[@pinksoda7325]

thank you!!

[@Rat-on-Toast]

How many times have you watc- Me:YES.

[@L-e-a]

THIS DESERVES MORE VIEWS 💖😭

[@Black0Pawz]

This is the most beautiful art i have ever seen

[@sparrowlovesskittles1640]

This is so good!!!!!!!

[@pinksoda7325]

ty!!

[@awoum]

Wow this is so good

[@ninaarslanova8716]

People finally stopped being afraid to post videos based on this book…because it was really silly and there was no logical reason for it. Great PMV!

[@meevins]

hm given how the book straight up depicts grooming and an adult trying to manipulate a child into dating them while severally butchering the topic i wouldn't use the words "really silly" when talking about it. people are uncomfortable with this book for a very good reason, don't try to downplay that

[@Xo_Beanie_MorningStar_Xo]

Woah :0 Amazing!!

[@miabear19]

What kind of software are pictures this good drawn in it looks like MS Paint charged Edit: and I can't get over the fact that Thistleclaw already had a mate and kid

[@kaysrandomchannel4618]

Yeah. It's disgusting.

[@tansyleaves]

I love your video game-like style!

[@cursedstarflight]

Ok this is like all sad and stuff but the name of the meme is making me wheeze too much

[@xxfiirerhinoxx3424]

That pfp tho! I need to find more like that lol

[@Cattystarla]

Underrated 0:

[@Croibhusha]

Many people talk about how gross the book is and how creepy it was and how they refuse to see this book as canon and over stuff like that. While i do agree the topic is definitely uncomfortable. Children need to read books like these to prepare themselves for disgusting people like thistleclaw who will take advantage of them and their naivety to fuel their own fucked up desires. Whenever the book is "Gross" and "creepy" or not, children need to know about this. Same with racism and sexism, PEOPLE AND CHILDREN NEED TO BE AWARE ABOUT THIS.

[@Luna-con.una_a_mayuscula]

Good job! A question: What program/app do you use? Your drawings are beautiful btw!

[@Pure_Chaoz]

This video made me want to research about grooming, so I did, and I think I may have been getting groomed throughout my whole time in school, though, the person doing it was only 1 year older than me. That doesn't matter though, right? I spent last night crying thinking about it, even though I'm not completely sure that's what was happening..

[@kaysrandomchannel4618]

Hope you're doing okay.

[@Your-absent-father456]

It depends what their age is, but if they’re manipulating you than that can count as grooming. Hope you’re alright

[@i.luvhusker.]

I’m at the part where thistleclaw is caught in the ‘training’ place

[@0fallen4angel]

good joob.. this is so real

[@rubyemberstorm4901]

PIXELLL YEEE

[@Haihapp3n]

Oh i forget. May I ask which program this is drawn with? the pixel art is great

[@StarSneezle]

I want to make a amv/PMV but idk wut cat to do it abt:( ideas anyone?

[@Spleenchomper]

It'd be cool if it was an underrated character like goosefeather or runningnose!! Maybe that's just because I like them but they need more attention

[@MadilynMeiFan]

Foxleap. I just think he’s neat.

[@DeHashModeBowie]

Helli :]

[@LARAH00162]

Can somebody explain what is a groomer?

[@pinksoda7325]

Basically a groomer (in this context) is a person, usually a p*dophile, who initiates a relationship with a minor and gains their trust so they can manipulate and use their victim

[@Inv_Enot]

I find it weird how people will hate thistleleaf (I dislike it but bear with me) when there’s barely even a gap, it’s 1 to 2 years but then that same person will say “omg fireleaf is so cute” despite the gap being 4, while neither are good firexspotted is much worse

[@_The_Lizard_King]

People hate it because Thistleclaw literally groomed Spottedleaf? I have never seen someone who hates Thistle x Spotted ship Spotted x Fire.

[@musicplaylists6718]

Person above is right but also the problem with age gaps is necessarily that there is an age gap but that there's a gap in maturity and experience. A 10 year old and a 20 year old are very, very different mentally, but a 20 year old and a 30 year old are pretty similar despite the age gap being the same in both examples

[@emo_grinch_440]

What's fireleaf refering to? Fire x spotted or Fire x Leafstar? The important thing is the age they start the relationship anyway. A 30 and 40 year old dating? Fine. But 20 years earlier? Literally one of the most disgusting things. Age gaps aren't wrong, just specific ones.

[@Inv_Enot]

@@emo_grinch_440 fire x spotted

[@emo_grinch_440]

@@Inv_Enot Okay thank you I was confused because it also had firespotted, wasn't sure their ship name

[@DeHashModeBowie]

Hi ::]

[@juicybean]

i keep forgetting that thistle’claw is a character omg. Anyway the art is amazing, and poor spotted’leaf :( she’s my fav character

[@DeHashModeBowie]

Hello :]

[@RandomCreamTryhard]

What happened? Between spotted`leaf and thisle`claw?

[@i_am_Plague]

Thistleclaw was a groomer and pedophile who told Spottedleaf to he'd wait for her when she was an apprentice.

[@pinksoda7325]

ahh someone replied but it isnt showing up for me for some reason, so just in case: thistleclaw was a child predator who was going to be with spottedpaw. she found out he was training in the dark forest so she broke up with him. then spottedpaw decided to become a medicine cat so he wouldn’t keep pursuing her. But the themes weren’t handled well in the book’s writing :P