HeroQuest: The Path of the Wandering Monk PLAYTEST

[@modollaz8116]

The door was closed after you killed the first two orcs so the cards would have been readied again before you got to open that door to the goblin and Abomination because at the beginning of your turn before opening the door there was no monsters.

[@AshQuest]

You are correct. I believe I was in the mindset of having forgot to move...thats what I should have done. Move into the room, see the monsters, and then let zargon take a turn.

[@jensweller6242]

Yes, that`s was my thougt too. So I was a littel confused. But good to see that Ash confirmed it already.

[@michaelwalerysiak9310]

I caught that too. I was wondering how he made such a mistake.

[@PhoeFlame]

I think this is better interpretation for "Twisting Torrent": You can activate it in the moment you get damage - even in Zargons turn. There is a limitation how many elementar styles you can use and the wording is important here. If it says "one per turn", you don't need to have it in mind... but if it says "one per round" you can only activate it in Zargons turn, if you didn't activate another elementar style in you own turn.

[@preacherbeeman3437]

After playing with the Monk for a couple of quests.... I see twisting torrent as a defensive ability, primarily used in combat. A monster rolls a big hit and I fail to defend. I tap twisting torrent to dodge all that damage and hope the next monster doesn't get a big hit on me. I think this use is intended to kind of make up for the Monk's lack of ability to add defense dice through armor. I also don't interpret the refresh of exhausted skill cards as a requirement when no monsters are visible at start of turn. The Monk is very powerful in early games compared to most other heroes, but as others level up weapons and armor, he gets left behind in some ways. I like being able to spread out the use of the skills and make the most of them without having to try to string them together perfectly every time. That's just me. I really like your Heroquest coverage, and content like this play test. As you walk through your thinking process, it helps me think too. Keep it up. I recently ordered the Axianquest bunble, in part thanks to your coverage, and look forward to getting that to the table.

[@JeffWitty]

I’d love to see the rogue - and the knight - play tested solo in the trial. I disagree how to used twisting torrent. I think it;s a 1-time reactionary thing. The trigger (activation) factor is in the first sentence. It can only be activated upon taking damage - and it can only mitigate that specific damaging attack. That’s how I’ll play it. With that said, your way isn’t wrong either. Interpretations can vary - just like you said. That’s what’s cool about this game. 😊 Homebrew and tweaking is encouraged.

[@HeroQuestFans]

that's how we read it as well, it's damage. I've had players that decide there's "no way" they can block something so they just want to activate it, but you really should do your response defense roll first.

[@josephpotter5766]

Its a fundamental mismatch in the design. The card for the power itself says it's in response to damage, the instructions on the card for the elemental styles says you can only use the style powers on your turn. Consistency and clear rulings are not somthing AH seem to be good at.

[@calebstephens8481]

I feel like the monk would be great for Return of the Witch Lord

[@Deadduck2pt0]

Have you done a playtest of the base heroes in this manner? I don't remember if I've seen a video done like that.

[@AshQuest]

Not yet! I've done one for the warlock and Druid, and ...I think the knight. I want to say bard as well.

[@Rudolfrudolf-wl2zb]

Why did the dread warrior not attack after moving out of the room ? Impressed by the monks glistening chest ?

[@carlosbarreto4695]

I think it's very odd to make monsters leaving the line of sight of heroes. It's like the monsters read the adventurer's skills/spells cards.

[@AshQuest]

fair take. if I think about it in a roleplay perspective, perhaps the enemies are attempting to lure the hero around a corner into an ambush, or pretend to flee. it can still be seen as meta, but with a different context, it could possibly make sense. in the end, giving the monk player as well as zargon some these strategies to employ has definitely got people talking.

[@jasonsumma1530]

I think the only time I have seen a monster move away from an opponent is to attack another if the first opponent is already engaged with another monster AND monster #2 can't attack the hero.

[@levonsyers7751]

Thanks for the content dude! It seems potentially like a really powerful character to roll. Speaking of rolls, there were some whiffs in there, which is always frustrating! Look forward to your next video!

[@danielwilliamson6180]

My father's name is Ashley. I like the idea of Warrior Monks in HeroQuest which is very cool.

[@KrakenSumo]

That's a cool new hero

[@michaelwalerysiak9310]

Couldn't you have used Twisting Torrent to avoid any damage from the Dread Warrior that killed him? If I'm not mistaken, you used it earlier in the same manner.

[@cjanquart]

The card interactions make this a character for someone that has a few games under their belts, or a savvy gamer. The "utility" abilities to search/disarm traps and the trap-jump would be generally used with no monsters present so those would recover immediately after being used. Not sure about possible weapons would be ideal but crossbow and maybe daggers (if they can use that dagger harness) for some ranged support but not sure if having any weapons negates their additional attack dice (unarmed ability).

[@jnixon2876]

Enjoyed this! Look forward to the Rouge play test 👍

[@dudemcfurgusson7179]

I think the monk's damage reduction ability can be used on any turn the monk would take damage. It doesn't have the same "Only on a monster's turn" clause as the warlock or the knight because it's able to be used against traps and hazards on the monk's turn, but the rules for the monk only say the abilities can be used once per *turn*, not once per *round*. It also has the wording that you use it when you take damage, reducing the damage you would have taken. If you can only use it on your turn, it would only use it against traps, hazards, and wandering monsters. It's not setting new precedent to use abilities on other player's turns, several other abilities also activate whenever you'd like, so I don't think it's a rules lawyer thing to do it when you take damage on a monsters turn, because the ability doesn't make sense as worded to only be usable on your turn.

[@AshQuest]

I understand that interpretation, not sure yet if I totally agree, but it's good to read the perspectives!

[@dudemcfurgusson7179]

@@AshQuest I think your video showed pretty well why it should be reactionary instead of preemptive also. I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong, but I'm going to try to convince you to try it out the other way and see how it plays. Your monk managed to clear rooms like a champion, imagine 3 other adventures in there with him. He's such a power house that the other party members would clear the room within a turn or two with average rolls. You could keep opening doors to keep the combo points stacking, but other players might want to slow things down. Search for treasure. Later quests also tend to have a good number of empty rooms or long hallways where that's not possible. Traps could pop up and end your turn before you have the opportunity to keep yourself in combat. So on average, you're going to reset your combo several times per quest, greatly reducing the fire abilities effectiveness. In later quests, the monk is at a strict disadvantage when trying to build combo points to get to their fire finisher, and once that's spent, you have no abilities left until after the fight is over. You might kill one big monster, you might kill a couple smaller monsters if they line up properly and you can get into position, but once you do your damage output is spent. Your equipment options are harshly restricted. You can't get more than 3 defense dice against monsters that are swinging more attack dice than that. I think the glass cannon aspect of the monk will severely suffer in later quests. The class has no healing ability whatsoever aside from potions and artifacts that you have to talk the rest of the party out of taking for themselves. Taking 3 turns to get to gib a monster or two isn't much more powerful than taking 4 turns. The class is more powerful than the druid, which I would argue is the weakest class in the game, or the warlock, which has a lot of the same defensive problems as well as an offensive problem. The knight is stronger defensively, qnd can protect allies. The wizard, especially when kitted out, has significantly more utility. The dwarf and barbarians might be weaker on the damage side, but can survive much better. The elf... the elf is the most broken class in the game hands down. But, I would also posit that the monk being able to kill something every 3 turns is less powerful than the rogue being able to do it every turn with multi attacks. I would give it more testing to see what's more fair to the monk player, especially in the harder expansion quests. Just my thoughts.

[@AshQuest]

I understand. No argument here, just points to consider! My playtest results do not, at least to me, show that it has to be reactionary - the other playtests I've done, if I recall correctly, showed equal success and usually end at the dread room. The druid by contrast, with one helper, managed to tear apart the center room and its inhabitants. As such, I can see the powerhouse potential within a group, but I'm not seeing it as a solo hero, at least more or less than any other (but it is a lot more strategic and fun to play this one solo! I really enjoyed thinking through actions and options!). These heroes are of course meant to be played complementary to a playstyle within a party of four rather than solo, so my tests aren't really even close to conclusive for all (or any) use cases, nor are they meant to be considered anything more than fun data to throw around. My current understanding (as in, wasn't sure at the time of recording, but what I'm going with now) is that that elemental style has to be chosen deliberately during the monk's turn, and that it must be at the beginning, before the monk has elected to move or take an action. I can see other's interpretations exploiting the wording or lack thereof on the card, and that is fine. But I do think the existence of twisting torrent, it has to be at the beginning and the reason for this is because -- stepping onto an unsearched / armed trap ends the monk's turn, robbing them of the ability to follow the rule (it doesn't say "you must" nor "you may"...it simply says "on your turn, choose one"). Searching for treasure and getting a trap or wandering monster also ends the hero's turn, and it wouldn't make sense (to me) that the monk should be able to wait to choose a style until it had been confirmed that the monk's turn had ended thanks to a triggered trap or monster. I also don't think a retroactive choice would make sense, i.e choosing a style to help an outcome after a dice roll result had been seen. That includes the damage nullification ability. But the wording on the card is pretty explicit: activate this technique when you take damage. can't argue with that. so! Here's how I am now seeing it is meant to be used: I, the monk, choose that technique then decided to move; if onto a trap, of course any damage from that trap, if applicable, is going to be nullified and then that's the technique spent. If I am attacked successfully by a wandering monster or sprung trap by searching for treasure, that in turn would be nullified if applicable. As I see it, if neither of these things happen, the monk is able to hang onto this buff throughout Zargon's turn (this being OP is a whole 'nother conversation!). Now I will say the technique is applied once a monster successfully attacks the first time; the damage is nullified and the technique is exhausted (for mechanical purposes, it doesn't make a difference to me if one considers the card exhausted then or as soon as it's declared activated). Subsequent successful attacks, or any successful attacks if the monk was hit during a trap/wandering monster, will wound the monk as normal. However! If I, the monk, chose another style (or the opposite side of the water style), then I *cannot* use twisting torrent, no matter the situation. My *one* technique has been activated, and I cannot activate more than one on my turn. There are a lot of other good points, such as how long buffs applied last / whether they stack (I say 'one turn' and 'no' for this), and whether the monk is totally OP now or can't level later (I say 'not necessarily depending on interpretations to the former points'' to both of these). This does warrant another video -- it's fascinating to see how this has forced us to think, and even better to see how one might homebrew a leveling system for the Monk that allows buffs to stack or last longer, or more techniques to be used....

[@dudemcfurgusson7179]

@@AshQuest so unless i'm reading an incorrect version of the card (which I may, as I'm relying on Google image search as I don't have a physical copy), it doesn't say "on your turn, choose one", it says "once per turn, choose one". I think that may be where the disconnect comes from with how that ability works, as it doesn't say anywhere that I can see that these are only available on your turn. I got to that part of your comment and had to stop to search, because I didn't remember reading it that way the first time and had to double check for myself. Edit: I'm also not trying to be argumentative if it seems that way, I'm just trying to better understand your position.

[@AshQuest]

Oh no, that's probably what it reads, and I misquoted.

[@jessicarowan5673]

Why was the final 3 damage not reduced to zero with twisting torrent.

[@christopherjakel1049]

Because for the Monk's Turn, Ash activated Eye of the Storm (The Air Element). The Monk can only activate one elemental ability per turn, so when Zargon went, the Air Element had already been exhausted so he was not yet able to activate the Water Element. Had he survived Zargons turn he would have been able to activate it. That said, he probably should have activated the Water Element first and attempted to take out the weakened Dread Warrior with a regular attack..... .... of course, dice results are always subject to a little bit of luck.

[@jessicarowan5673]

Thank you!

[@AshQuest]

My dice know when a camera is pointed at them, and defy the laws of averages to screw me over. Black shields. Everywhere.

[@michaelwalerysiak9310]

Yeah but he played Twisting Torrent earlier in the same manner after using Strength of a Mountain, he negated the follow up attack with Twisting Torrent. Twisting Torrent is a confusing one on when you can play it. Seems like it should be able to be used when under attack.

[@chewchewie1976]

I'm with @michaelwalerysiak9310 here. It wasn't the Monk's turn when the Zargon attacked with the Dread warrior. The Monk should have used Twisting Torrent to cancel the 3 Skulls damage.

[@ReiklandReaver]

Is this one of those neoprene mats that i've seen on Etsy? I fancy getting one but need to see some gameplay/reviews with them in.

[@HeroQuestFans]

it's certainly pretty, but the extra thick vertical corridor it's really hard to make out any grid lines (at least at this angle).

[@dudemcfurgusson7179]

​@XSC3 the artist for this one has another version of this map, this one is the Dread Moon themed one. The Mage of the Mirror themed one has much clearer lines in the hallways and is just as gorgeous in my opinion.

[@killSeal]

The two orcs, Maurice and Frederick, just wants to study and practice alchemy in peace. Why are these 'so called heroes' trespass, murder and ransack these homes which they (the 'heroes') call 'a dungeon'?

[@carlosbarreto4695]

I finally obtained the Monk, as well as the Bard, Druid and Warlock. I can't wait to play with these new heroes. By the way, we have now 10 heroes (plus a Wolf ally). How do you play with so many heroes?

[@jesusbaetana8993]

Great stuff as always Ash; THE source for Heroquest on KZbin. In my DM'd games, I'd always make the Monk player pick his card at the very start of the turn but in the case of the 'Twisting Torrent' card, let him choose when during (only) that turn which attack damage he nullfies, once. I think he's a little overpowered to be honest!

[@WhiteRhinoPSO]

Huh.. I bought Prophecy of Telor and Spirit Queen's Torment, and neither of them came with any extra combat dice. I only have the dice from the base game, and from The Frozen Horror.

[@Rudolfrudolf-wl2zb]

Zargon went easy on the monk, when the dread warrior chased the monk in the corridor he did not attack.

[@AshQuest]

That was totally it. It's nothing to do with my adhd (which means...advanced...dungeon hero...dragon?..)

[@ScooterinAB]

Pre-abomination, didn't you start your turn with no monsters in line of sight?

[@AshQuest]

I misremembered but rewatched, and of course you are right. I should have moved into the room first, seeing the monsters, then ended my turn. Dumb oversight.

[@ScooterinAB]

@@AshQuest I's only a game.

[@AshQuest]

There's folks who take it pretty far...so I guess I just prepare. 😳

[@EnE85]

How I interpreted the card, can’t you use the blue damage mitigation at any point? So you failed your defense role and would have died but instead used your blue card?

[@jimmzik3097]

Where did you get that board???

[@AshQuest]

This is Ian Schofield's Beautiful Dungeon Mats, available on DriveThruRpg!

[@RUTGERMORTENSEN]

why doesn't the mat have grid in corridors?

[@AshQuest]

They're not easy to see, but it does have tiny crosshairs that make the grid visible.

[@soapmonkey5205]

Where did you get the mat? It looks great

[@AshQuest]

Ian Schofield's Beautiful Dungeon Mats (drivethrurpg.com)

[@frankblack5931]

You interpret too much and follow what the cards say too little my young Padawan. It's your game and you can house rule all you want but don't do a playthrough that ostensibly is supposed to show how a character plays when you're house ruling like crazy.

[@AshQuest]

I would assume this refers to my interpretation of at least one card that was written such that debate over how it is "meant" to be played is demonstrable in every HQ community? If your interpretation of it is different, that's fine! It is as you say -- play the game your way! And where the rules fall into vague or "what was RAI?" territory, your interpretation as Zargon is as canonical as it gets.