Hey, Let's All Argue About This 1 Exotic! (Rent Due)

Hey, let's all argue about Conditional Finality in PvP! Maybe you've heard of it: conditional finality? one of the best raid exotics in Destiny 2? Maybe the best Shotgun in Destiny 2 PvP? Yeah, that Exotic. So yeah, today's topic: is conditional finality OP?
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[@FalloutPlays]

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[@hardluckmk.52]

It reminds me of D1 how everyone used to challenge supers instead of running away and as someone who hasn’t played pvp in some time and still only used to that kind of playstyle i like that people are finally growing a pair…just needed a bit of a push

[@oswaldosoria7680]

Does the affiliate link to Starforge come with a discount or no? Went to checkout and saw the option for a discount code and wanted to make sure I’m not missing out on free money lol

[@jakezemlicka-retzlaff5453]

All I hear you saying is....Catalyst when? Preferably where it gives 2 more barrels for a void shot that gives weilder overshield and a strand shot that creates 2 threadlings 😅....I really do love the gun and totally ok with all its current abilities

[@KevinBrevin]

I love the gun but hate facing it and can never hit a shot with it so it is just annoying.

[@zeik101]

This video made me subscribe after several years because of the number of “But then again…” you chained together. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I’ve seen a content creator actually bring up all the different decisions that need to be weighed with anything other than a token, throwaway line nodding to a point they disagree with. Every time I see someone give an opinion on Destiny and balancing, it always just sounds like “I only want people to be able to use the two weapons that **I** am using.”

[@XxHUNT3RN4T0RxX]

It’s not Conditional Finality’s fault it’s the only consistent counter to bubbles and wells.

[@Palayedeuhm]

TRUEE

[@thundershock720]

Witherhoard

[@thebestpilot7]

“Just use your super that has a longer cooldown!”

[@namsu3]

@@thundershock720witherhoard cannot counter a well, it can barely counter a bubble given the titan understands how to maintain his/her shield

[@ZeroONeal]

​@@thundershock720boring plus you could get blitzed thr moment yo drop it in the bubble or get stunned by the barrier titans stack inside atleast CF gives you the chance to nuke those crutch users before they see it coming

[@tehtw1tch]

Conditional makes solo Trials slightly more bearable because you can bring your own solution to supers without relying on teammates, I like it.

[@kyrasazariah5192]

This. Just... This.

[@LocAces]

YOU ATE with is comment. two snaps, a finger point and a dip. In short i totally agree 🤣🤣

[@Fear17342]

Sooo true bro amount of time iv been saved from bubble titians is crazy

[@gabrielshuz]

There's a reason this weapon took a few seasons to take off. It's mostly a problem of the tier 5 supers and how they basically win the round in trials at the moment, the cooldown should be way higher, the discrepancy between super cooldowns should've never been that big to begin with (with a few exceptions of course).

[@trentonswanton8905]

this. it’s unfair for a special ammo weapon to counter supers but the supers shouldn’t even be enabled in trials to begin with. it’s fucked both ways

[@bombshellblonde544]

I also expect this took a few seasons to take off because it always takes forever for a large amount of people to finally raid exotics

[@Alex-qo4ol]

@@trentonswanton8905 bungie needs to nerf or outright remove supers and decrease shotgun damage in trials💀

[@Alex-qo4ol]

and range

[@NomTheDom]

@@Alex-qo4ol just bring tournament rules to trials

[@osogof115]

I think it's one of the few exotics that feel like an exotic. If you spent the time and energy to get it, you should get to use it in all its glory. It's kinda no different than farming that god roll legendary that kills faster than most people agree with. Some people get lucky and get it first try, some try 80 times until they get it

[@chem2430]

Shouldn't ever be 80 but that's another thing entirely

[@PrecariousHusk]

Just got it today finally after 64 clears.

[@fonze47th89]

That's what destiny is all about leave the gun alone

[@christwalken12]

33 clear I got it, was running with a guy at 69 (nice). Felt bad for him

[@glenseaman5057]

I like that this weapon makes bubble not an auto-pick. Anything that shakes up the meta is cool imo

[@GoldenDashDude]

Anything with ice is technically cool

[@XxHUNT3RN4T0RxX]

@@GoldenDashDude ice pun lol

[@arkonwolves7192]

But now it is the meta is the problem and the gun is now ‘auto pick’

[@jpmorgan6146]

@@arkonwolves7192it’s only auto pick because bubbles are auto pick. It’s that simple. Tired of running into two titans who can win two free rounds with bubble 😂 by just pressing a button

[@jpmorgan6146]

Other than the super shutdown if you died to conditional you would’ve died to a matador. Unless you died to the freeze collat and let’s be real that does not happen that often unless you’re literally sniffing the air off your teammates body

[@ShootinMyWayOut]

I think a big problem was giving supers tiers. Many supers countered bubble, but that can't happen when the bubble is gotten before your super.

[@GoersEdits]

How about just no supers in trials? Problem solved yo

[@countyoda]

In reality, tiering supers could’ve been done better by actually balancing them and giving blanket cooldowns on them. “All supers are now 10 minute cooldowns at base.” Would’ve been much better. And when you buff/nerf the supers to make them actually balanced, it leaves it up to the player to spec into intellect to focus into their super use. Giving well and bubble such low cooldowns is bogus when they removed one counter entirely (Silence and Squall) and gave Nova such a longer cooldown. Even Blade Barrage is inconsistent.

[@xcelestialdemon8245]

​@@GoersEditslmaooo just play COD bro

[@lucaharris6581]

@@xcelestialdemon8245there’s more to d2 pvp than abilities

[@crazygeniusttv]

I honestly never like the super tiers, at least before everyone had to same chance to go super. Now u barely see roamer supers and bb is the only go to super to one shot bubble or well

[@majesticbbqsauce727]

As someone who doesn't use shotguns (or specials at all really) in pvp. It's 100% ok. Wells and bubbles are annoying deals with those. Is a pretty consistent shotty, with a good range to back from. The stasis freeze isn't really egregious. Essentially it's an exotic slot for consistency and dealing with stationary supers.

[@drewcifer9701]

but.... why? y no special?

[@majesticbbqsauce727]

@drewfreeman9701 I simply do not like playing with them in pvp. For 1, the usage requirements are too high for my patience. And 2, I prefer a nice engagement where I flanked an enemy and they get a chance to turn around. Kind of like a dance instead of a tackle. Finally 3, I very much like seeing people waste special on me when I'm messing around and they don't get any for an actual kill. Especially in gamemodes where kills don't matter. >:)

[@yasininn76]

Except that's bs. Bubbles and well should actually give you a very good chance to fight given how they're not normal abilities, THEY'RE SUPERS. If they introduced a glaive able to deflect blade barrages, chaos reaches and so on, would you call it balanced? No, because it makes the supers, whcih are the culmination of a match, be as useful as normal abitlites but with a cool down that's way longer

[@majesticbbqsauce727]

@yasininn76 From a fun standpoint, not gameplay or balance, they are not fun to deal with. Very fun to be in, as I have spent a while in the bubble myself. The main problem deals with the fact you have to shut it down in order to keep playing. They can too easily be put into a spot where they shut down the surrounding visible area, while also granting damage buffs. It's frankly not fun to have to stop all you are doing, how you are enjoying the game, to make sure tou aren't blindsided but full control of the map and the constant flanks from other enemy teammates as tou try to regain your bearings. Which someone is using an exotic slot for a shotty, that is likely to only have 1 chance to counter that bubble. And frankly I find it a lot less egregious than using witherhoard in pvp. Without a good counter, you need another super to counter a bubble or well. Which ironically isn't going to come up nearly as often as their bubbles. I do miss the old times of my bubble being a powerhouse in PvE, and will for sure trade buffs to bubble to regain it's glory if there is a consistent counter such as this in PvP. Remember, chances are there isn't just 1 person with bubble or well, as well as the fact they recharge ridiculously fast. Meaning there is no consistent option but an exotic to counter them easily like any other super.

[@queuebe4068]

@@yasininn76 They should be treated like normal abilities honestly

[@munchratrs]

I think Conditional being strong is great, but like you said its complicated. If they choose to nerf how it can 1 shot wells/bubbles they should also take a look at super charging rates again. I remember a while back they changed all the times because they didn't want it to feel like "super o'clock", yet, here we are in the same situation in 6s. While in 3s (especially the higher skill lobbies) the rounds go by so quickly that if you run anything other than bubble or well its unlikely you'll see a super. This causes guns like conditional and witherhoard to be the only reliable counter to this(with a few other niche options).

[@noahthomas9450]

I completely agree

[@aidanstewart3011]

As a PvE player, please don’t ruin this for us. This gun is such a rare perfection of combining “viable usage in DPS and endgame” with “really fun to use”.

[@durtyjohn9339]

Took 54 runs and I was expecting it to not be that great after having to complete the raid so many times but it's so much more than I thought it would be and even though I would've appreciated doing less runs, I'm glad I did them to get the exotic

[@hugomartinet2263]

* Young Ahamkara's Spine enters the chat *

[@viable3589]

​@@hugomartinet2263* They said gun lol *

[@glitchin1233]

Honestly, it's such a perfect pve option I think the better argument for it being nerfed is how obsolete it makes other special weapons in pve

[@viable3589]

@@glitchin1233 Counterpoint, almost every good legendary special weapon is in the energy slot, so you can run double special (I know it got nerfed, I'm just saying) or use a different set of weapons to accommodate to the activity you're gonna do or the build you're making.

[@brandoncrawford8467]

This raid exotic ACTUALLY feel like a exotic, it’s the only weapon to consistently counter the hardest supers (well and bubble). Also it force’s bubbles to stop camping and change play different, conditional can be out played if warlock or titans know how to maneuver in their super instead of camping with a camp fire

[@rathukas2668]

I believe there should be a consistent counter to bubble and well supers. If it’s not conditional finality then Bungie needs to present a new choice. It at least allows a team to mount a comeback if they don’t have supers first. And the same could be given to the other team when the shoe is on the other foot.

[@peabrain6872]

My bubble counter is sweet business actium war rig, with a touch of pulse grenade and a sprinkle of rally barricade

[@DemonTime08]

I mean how you used counter bubble and well was witherhoard before the nerf to the length of time the pool was on the ground it was a hard counter but also used to bully the zone also that’s why they nerfed it I feel like stasis should be the hard counter that’s why conditional is used for the freeze that’s all it comes down to so I say buff behemoth titan bro my main it needs one anyway and I didn’t use it when it was busted because I wasn’t playing destiny at all when it came out but the nuts have definitely been cut off the super I think they need to buff it and make it the well and bubble destroyer and put it in the tier with bubble then shorten the cooldown on some of the others I think blade barrage cooldown is fine but nova for sure needs a cooldown reduction but we are also getting some new supers soon as well

[@Faytedsoul]

I think letting some exotic like Wish Ender pierce Bubbles would work, it's not gonna instantly kill them with the overshield and they will still have an opportunity to kill their attacker. For well we just need some kind of debuff that reduces healing received.

[@alfred265]

@@DemonTime08 bruh Behemoth is the highest dps super in the game. It doesn’t need a buff.

[@thethumblessn00b19]

@@alfred265yeah but the class itself is mid. Behemoth is like the opposite of voidwalker, bad/weak super great class you know?

[@thetrigger4221]

I think it’s good to leave alone. It’s a hard counter to bubble and well, which is much needed. If they nerf it’s freeze/shatter and ignition, nothing really separates it from being just another shotgun.

[@crnchy_p0tat0]

They should nerf the shatter damage for nearby players and make the overall shotgun worse, i dont mind the counter to bubbles and well but the gun is too good. Id make the handling, pelletspread and range worse,

[@A_Hexis]

@@crnchy_p0tat0 Nah, in a world of craftable weapons and legendary weapons that rival the likes and damage of exotics, Conditional is perfectly fine where it is. If anything bungie should just make it more attainable so that more people have a better chance to be able to use it. The only people complaining about conditional are those who don't have it

[@route77productions]

​@@crnchy_p0tat0Sorry no. Nerfing the shatter damage for players who are only within less than 1 meter of the ally who got frozen is dumb. If anything, it incentives not to play so damn close to each other, which people don't do. Getting a double kill that way is insanely rare in 3v3.

[@h00ded0ne4]

I think you already answered your own questions by discussing it in the video. The gun is currently "balanced" because if you make any change to it, it completely upsets the meta and is doing it's job by keeping those easy button supers in check.

[@matthewcody.]

Totally agree, the predator / prey analogy really clicked for me. I’m sure there are some major changes that could improve the health of the sandbox but for rn it feels like there is some stability…

[@westhutton8252]

But then again one gun makes my super near useless

[@TheAnnoyedGoose]

@@westhutton8252 bubble or well user has entered this chat. Please vacate the premises or we will pull out conditional finalities

[@RedJake33]

​@@westhutton8252But then again, that super invalidates the mahority of the sandbox and can singlehandedly win a round by the sheer fact of existing. The double edged sword is that if we want to nerf CF, Bubble and Well beed nerfs too.

[@kyuubi7523]

@@RedJake33 I don’t think bubble and well need nerf , we just need to fix how long it takes to get anything else. You’re almost throwing if you aren’t running well , bubble , or blade barrage just off how quick you get those supers

[@SmoreBread]

I don’t own the gun, but I think it’s existence really does bring balance to wells and bubbles. There should be more easily available answers to those who can’t raid regularly, but still. The most effective tactic available to win trials/comp is to run bubble or well. The most effective way to counter those is CF. Neither of these things alone should be a free win, and CF alone isn’t. But without some way to ignite/freeze a bubble or well, or a heavy weapon, that round is free to them.

[@yasininn76]

I haven't seen a well in 4 hours of playing trials, and bubbles can be easily countered with team shooting

[@kanecartoon103]

I feel like a good team that knows Conditional Finality can still counter it even withing a bubble or well. Depends on if your facing just one conditional finality or 3. Its either that or witherhoard + grenades. Every strategy needs an effective counter. We remember the days before Conditional Finality where its bubble on top of a bubble with titan shields and punching each other for a random winner. Do we really want to go back to that?

[@zanthemeximan]

lolz! I for sure do not miss that

[@PaendaTube]

So what's better? Just one guy being able to loadout swap to kill two supers? It's a good gun but i would be lying if i told you I'm still playing pvp as a void titan. It's just not worth it maybe if i had the gun too but i don't have the rng or the time these days to grind out a raid exotic. So I'm just at a disadvantage and I'm playing other single player games, pvp is just a mess and this is proof of that

[@kanecartoon103]

@@PaendaTube At this point its either having a counter or not having a counter. Without Conditional Finality as a void titan you just pop bubble and win the round. So is that really fair for the other team just because they are not playing void Titan? It puts them at a disadvantage cause they have slower supers and nothing to counter the bubble. Heavy comes up at round 3 and bubbles usually happen around round 4 if we are talking trials. I really feel Intellect and the speed of supers needs to change a bit if Conditional Finality is nerfed in some manner. Otherwise yet again everyone is running void titan or solar warlock for well.

[@4CETH4N]

The only reason I, and probably a lot of solo player, uses this in PvP is probably just that bubble and well are soooooo popular and powerful, and this is pretty much the only counter to it weapons wise. Had well AND bubble be nerfed to that normal shotty, or even sniper, can kill them, then I think the usage of conditional would probably drop a decent bit. It’s not the most consistent one hit kills in PvP, it’s not the farthest reaching one hit kill in PvP, it just counters the most annoying aspect of PvP, wells and bubbles

[@ItzNRD]

I think this also highlights the issue of Well/Bubble meta, how tired players are of it, and that they would like to see other super variety in PvP (and by extension PvE).

[@Tuck44]

While this is true, we have to keep in mind that the “capture the point” mode in trials is what makes well/bubble so good. I don’t want to nerf these supers in a way that makes them useless in other pvp modes. This shotgun seems to bring these supers more into balance for trials, which is preferable imo over nerfing the supers.

[@tacoboy2218]

​@@Tuck44the problem with 1 exotic "balancing" 2 supers is those who don't have it get fuck over

[@ItzNRD]

@@Tuck44 This is a fair assessment. I also would not want to nerf Well or Bubble and would much rather bring up other supers to combat them, or change the gamemode (Checkmate-modifier Trials weekend?), or continue to innovate new ways to combat the current meta if we're just sticking with this one.

[@Cassp0nk]

@@tacoboy2218so go get it?

[@joshuanovakowski8293]

Conditional finality is fine. I think more options to fill that role would make things better. I know vorpal effects roaming supers but off the top of my head, i don't remember if it affects guardians in well and bubbles. If it doesn't, maybe it should.

[@PoeticDeath-iy4lz]

I find Conditional Finality not hard to avoid or counter, and it's not an oppressive weapon. It also fills a huge role that we don't have much else for right now.

[@tsuchigumo7058]

The issue though with its ability to counter is, as a CF main, its really not as easy as just put it on and youre an effective counter. You still have to hit all of your pellets, which is harder to do when theres 3 or more in a bubble or well strafing around each other and shooting/punching you.

[@SaltySpaghetti27]

Conditional being meta in PvP definitely reminds me of why Arby was meta in PvE last year. I feel like both are examples of meta guns being symptoms of other issues in the game, in Arby's case being a skeleton key for Match Game. Because of that similarity I think Conditional will eventually get nerfed, but I don't think high usage will stop until the root cause is also fixed - similar to how people kept using Arby for everything even after it was nerfed a few times. However I do hope Conditional's consistency doesn't get hit with whatever nerf it receives, because that's the main reason I enjoy using it, even if there aren't Well or Bubble players on the other team.

[@thatonenoob1050]

well arbalest was broken cause its a heavy in the kinetic slot, conditional really isnt broken one hit kill range is the same as some of the best legendary shotguns all it does better atleast in pvp is kill supers which the guy in the bubble could just 1 hit them back with their shotgun

[@LeJunny]

Arby used to kill Anti Barrier's in 3 shots in a GM, that was OP... Conditional Finality doesn't have that level of utility in GM's

[@Anchor-Supreme]

Conditional doesn’t deserve a nerf. Here’s why: - It doesn’t have any elements in PvE that make it a must pick in every situation. Arby was a must-pick even outside of matchgame. - It’s effective range means that it’s usability is far lower than other exotics. - It’s power reflects the risk of using it. It has 55 RPM, two rounds in the mag, and very low range. It’s a huge risk-reward weapon, nerfing it would make no sense.

[@emerald_king9259]

I feel like conditional finality is fine where it is since the only reason it seems to be good in pvp is since it is a shutdown for supers and there are other shutdowns and in pvp its a very fun unstoppable and major shutdown shotgun and gives something else to use a shotgun for besides one two punch. I think the only reason conditional finality is so popular is because its an easy shutdown for the most common supers in pvp because of control.

[@IainG10]

And how quick those Supers charge vs others. As a Shadebinder I rarely even get mine...

[@theSixPathsOfTrains]

I never knew people was having issues with it, only getting it. Lol

[@route77productions]

​@@IainG10Shadebinder super cooldown is painful trying to get in Trials unless you have close to 100 intellect.

[@mexicanball26]

a friend suggested that if they are going to do something they can change the order of the element, meaning that the solar shot goes first and then the stasis one that way you need to go with one bullet if you want to freeze someone

[@spasticatedcat8596]

You will be amazed how common this gun feels in 6v6 control. I swear both sides have at least 2 every match I play. I don't own it and it's just one of those guns where I feel like I NEED to grind for it so I can counter well/bubble. Yes it's a shotgun and I always get salty about them, but this gun seems to be balanced in some weird way. It's not like an auto-win gun from what I have seen. It just feels like an auto-pick that I can't get because I don't have time for raids. On the PvE side it seems really fun and interesting; like an exotic should feel. Something that's powerful without being boring. Yet it makes me feel bitter knowing that I will never be able to get it. TLDR Envy is my sin and I feel like Conditional Finality might be a symptom of a bigger problem.

[@2Gals1Monkey]

I can see it now..Bungie nerfs it because of PvP and destroys it for PvE

[@fotis3v480]

They gutted YAS while still leaving the most fundamentally broken exotic with a love tap so yeh.

[@TheHondo]

PvP and PvE are balanced separately and have been for quite a while now. And they haven't really nerfed much in PvE since the split. Only really a couple I can remember which are witherhoard and gjally nerfs. If anything bungo been tryna buff pve stuff to get more people to use them

[@YOUfailME911]

They literally just killed YAS in PvE because of the grenade regen in PvP. @@TheHondo

[@riptyde1743]

I have mained Conditional Finality in PvE only since the genesis of RoN. I'm not a PVP player, but what I can say is that I adore my shotgun just the way it is in PvE. If my sweet buddy buddy gets the axe, I'm praying to god it's a PVP-only thing.

[@nathanflinchum1153]

As a YAS user, I fear it will not be pvp only if something happens to it

[@jasonprice9823]

Nothing turns me off of this game more than nerfing something in PvE because of PvP.

[@mr._.mav792]

Pfff do you even play Destiny? They'll absolutely ruin the thing because they just can't help themselves from bringing the nerf hammer down like fucking thor himself

[@cerberus1166]

i dont see why. shotguns are asscheeks in pve.

[@cerberus1166]

hmmmm kinda like double fusion nades getting nerfed in pvp because of pve huh? shit goes both ways. its just that you pve asshats are the only side that whines about them. affecting the other side. i used to main them for pvp for warlock. YAS is as much a pve nerf as pvp, its killing the same issue warlock nades had in pve endless nade and endless ignitions. @@jasonprice9823

[@Mysticmingas]

a titan in bubble can use a barricade to ruin the plans of an intruder. a warlock in well can just shoot any shotgun rusher before they reach it. if you get fucked in your super like that, it was your own fault.

[@zanthemeximan]

feels good to have something to battle the well and bubble in trials

[@dragonosmium1209]

I think you said it best with Conditional being a predator in a specific ecosystem. 2:45 Shotguns imo have always been a response weapon, someone's charging at you, shut them down with a shotgun. Someone hiding in a bubble, shut them down with shotgun. Wellspring can be handled with a strong sniper, and both with a smart fusion rifle play. I don't think these scenarios call for a nerf simple bc Conditional is strong. A Raid exotic should feel strong and worth the chase

[@XLCook12]

Exactly. If imma grind a raid for an exotic once a week or three times a week then It better be fucking GREAT if it isn’t then WHY the fuck would I grind for it. People calling for a nerf with this gun are just pissed that it’s good and they don’t have it. PVP players can cry me a fucking river.

[@wafelkai3154]

Really hope Bungie doesn't nerf Conditional, but rather looks at nerfing well and bubble. The reason that conditional becomes an auto pick is due to well and bubble being absurdly strong. There are a lot more problem exotics (looking at you lemon and wishender) in the game than conditional at the moment. It would be interesting to see how the meta shakes up when bubble and well are nerfed.

[@marcosgonzalez8774]

Lemon ? Wishender ? What lobbies are you playing ? Overwatch hanzo only ?

[@helix7398]

@@marcosgonzalez8774 Bro, it been Hanzo only since last week, many people already talked about it. Are you live under a rock?

[@marcosgonzalez8774]

@@helix7398 no I don't dedicate my life to one game or game mode. And bows aren't hard to counter, stop double peeking the same lane

[@Colindalugia]

​@@marcosgonzalez8774Bows alone are easy to counter. But once there is 2 or someone is doing a hotswap build, they become oppressive quickly

[@marcosgonzalez8774]

@@Colindalugia so counter with a sniper or choose a different strat,, still counterable

[@TheBioFear]

Little thing I found out when running spire's. Even if you shoot the solar emblem with your stasis shot, it will activate as if you shot it with a solar weapon

[@NoXTortoise]

Weapons have all elemental damage types that they have under each of their bullets/projectiles. Though they do not get the damage bonus against matching shields, they do get any buff applied to that weapon damage type. Running Twin-Tailed Fox with Sanguine Alchemy (we'll use the Dawnblade subclass for this example), 2 arc weapon surge mods, and a void weapon surge mod increases the damage of all of the rockets by 17% from the sanguine, another 17% from the two arc surge mods, and an additional 10% from the void surge mod. And do remember you can stack outside mods and perks to increase damage further, such as Monochromatic Maestro and Transcendent Blessing.

[@ThisIsHunglo]

This was the only special weapon I used in trials, it counters wells and bubbles so efficiently. Considering that wells and bubbles are the fastest charging supers and if the user is kind of cracked and they're also running really high intellect, they can have their bubble/well by round 4 or 5 and just take the point uncontested because there are very few counters. Conditional still has that risk factor of you'll getting blasted in the face unless your team can come up with a plan to give the conditional user ample time to rush in to blast the other team sitting in the well/bubble(s). I don't think a nerf is warranted, I just want even more options be able to deal with wells and bubbles. In case people didn't know, the sword that projects the well easily breaks if you freeze it a couple times.

[@benjaminchristiansen4129]

An exotic feeling exotic in PvE An outlier in PvP, but that's mostly because of the other options

[@Kanudee]

i think the reason it is an outlier in pvp is because most people dont use and exotic so they just end up tossing it on because it hangs with the best legendary shotguns and can counter well and bubble

[@Harry_Fullick]

My thoughts were that its a sub par range shotty with great handling and really strong utility, IMO it only really levels the playing field, in close range only, against bubble/ well, doesn't completely overshadow them since any player paying attention should be able to fight back before the enemy gets into freeze range. I think we should instead bring into question the balance of well and bubble in a competitive setting before we consider Conditional Finality. Which is another topic I'd be interested to hear your take on.

[@likafoss]

Sub par range is only on paper man. CF totally MAPS in crucible. With or without the freeze/ignite

[@antoniosmith6841]

Sub par range?????? I can tell you and the other people that liked this comment clearly haven’t used conditional enough in crucible LMAO no reason to use any other shotty it is no where near balanced. What’s the point of a kinetic primary if that’s the conditional slot? No point. Same thing for a kinetic legendary shotty. Conditional out performs god roll legendary shotguns by miles in terms of handling range, and oh it can kill supers. It’s almost like there is no reason to use any other shotgun in the game LMAO but people still say hey man it’s balanced

[@xcelestialdemon8245]

​@@antoniosmith6841huh??? you can run chaperone if you want a slug. heritage. fractethyst, astral or imperial decree all see significant usage. you're just coping so hard right now. maybe you don't have it or maybe you just don't like others having fun. either way, it's nowhere close to unfair or unbalanced. cope.

[@antoniosmith6841]

@@xcelestialdemon8245 I have it and use it and tried other shotguns after using it, there is no reason to take it off and there’s a reason why if you tune into any high level pvp player right now take a guess at what shotgun their using? Conditional!!!

[@antoniosmith6841]

@@xcelestialdemon8245 slugs just aren’t good in current meta and in terms of pellet shotguns conditional feels like it maps harder than my god roll matador and definitely out maps my crafted imperial, ntm it has base 100 handling with one dex mod. There’s a reason conditional has been top 3 at minimum on trials report every week of trials for several months now.

[@Xiaolruc]

Simply put, Ward should not be a Tier 5 cooldown Super. It provides protection from all outside-of-bubble damage, plus an overshield and grants the ability to roam with a damage buff on your weapons just for sticking your pinky toe in it. Make it a Tier 4 cooldown.

[@BrandonVonOtt]

Same for well. Both are such a pain in trials.

[@Xiaolruc]

@@BrandonVonOtt Hasn't Well been changed to a Tier 4 already?

[@route77productions]

If they ever nerf Conditional, them annoying ass bubble Titans better expect their super to get nerfed. Removing the overshield players get inside would be enough in my opinion. Let them keep their bonus damage to level it out.

[@ShaoShaoMienshao]

Tier 5 shouldn't even exist. Its a Tier of two Supers: Ward, and Well. And they're both obnoxious. They should be Tier 4, so the player who simply plays better gets their Super first.

[@BrandonVonOtt]

@@Xiaolruc last I checked, well was tier 5 still.

[@isuccnewton2654]

personally, i would like conditional finality to not be the one of the ONLY ways of dealing with the first bubble of a pvp match. the best way would probably be to lift bubble and well out of tier 5 and place some less popular supers in there to make them more enticing to use (like maybe spectral blades). place bubble and well in tier 4, fast enough to outpace most supers, but slow enough so stuff like blade barrage and chaos reach has time to keep up, and tier 3 supers if the respective guardian is slaying his heart out. all this i mean in the context that the respective god gamer ISNT basing his whole build around max intellect to keep up with the bubble charge time.

[@ForeverLaxx]

What Bungie needs to do is introduce a few more weapons that can counter bubbles and wells somewhat effectively without overstepping the boundaries set by the weapon frame they're part of. That's what makes CF function so well without being oppressive -- it's essentially just a standard, normal shotgun for everyone who isn't a Shadebinder that just happens to counter wells and bubbles dropped by the oblivious. We need more weapons like this so loadouts can at least give the appearance of diversity if Bungie is unwilling to modify the problem supers directly.

[@ericarmstrong8207]

I think the handling alone makes it a top tier shotgun. The freezing and scorch are what makes it an exotic. Aren't exotics SUPPOSED to be good? Now that there is Igneous Hammer, which pairs better with it than any gun I've used, I feel the gun is in it's best spot yet. I love it, and though it is powerful in PVP, I do not want it to be nerfed. They've already nerfed shotguns enough. 🙃

[@thomash8513]

Yea if they nerf it nerf the handling

[@ericarmstrong8207]

@@thomash8513 I agree completely. Because the range is better than what it says it is. I'm ok with a handling nerf in PVP. But they need to leave it exactly how it is in PVE

[@MountainSmell]

Try conditional with peacekeepers and an smg. I recommend shayura's wrath or funnelweb. Ikelos smg is good too, but 900 smgs are sneaky good right now and 600s are just so reliable.

[@VanpyroGaming0]

I have a slowly growing hatred of Conditional Finality. It's absolutely everywhere, and stifling any special weapon variety in PvP. However in the same breath, it's one of only 2 weapons that can shut down Bubbles and Wells consistently, the other being Witherhoard. I completely understand why it's seeing the popularity that it is, but I think Bubble and Well are what needs nerfing first to see how the sandbox shakes up.

[@stryker0563]

Either its Conditional your gonna deal with or another shotgun

[@riothegod1831]

@@stryker0563i’d rather deal with any other shotgun

[@JakeFish5058]

​@@riothegod1831Why?

[@ThePaulper]

@@stryker0563I’ll take the latter lol

[@GingerJotunn]

@@riothegod1831 could you say why? When I'm in PVP none of the time I get killed by conditional feel bullshit or bad. It feels like it's the exact same as every other shotgun. This is as someone who doesn't have it, so the nerf wouldn't really affect me

[@Daggerswor]

The best solution seems to be buffing things against those supers, if they can get into range to do so. Perhaps power weapons especially

[@lokibarlow6647]

I dont have conditional but dont have an issue with it, its awesome for what it is and can be easily countered with other shottys and guns It fills in a speacial spot that you didnt know was there until it came along to fill it Would love to see a cat for it cause of how unique the gun is can go nearly anywhere with it

[@DryLand13]

The main thing for me is that it’s a RAID exotic and I believe that should set it slightly above the rest. It’s not too OP but it is a very good looking and unique gun and it has a special place in the meta due to the dominance of well and bubble right now

[@xcelestialdemon8245]

That's the thing, right? It's literally just good. Not broken, not required, not meta defining. It's just good; and people want it nerfed??? so dumb.

[@corruptedsouless]

we got conditional finality to drop on our first completion of RON and was very happy to receive the shotty it's extremely fun as a gun and isn't overpowered in any way imo, in any case we prefer to use fusion rifles most times for their satisfying vwoops. all in all give conditional finality a catalyst that gives it something small (like a mag of 5 shots like it says instead of 2)

[@englrus10]

Raid exotics should feel and be more powerful than other exotics.

[@IamArcania]

I think another problem with it (i think the gun is fine) is most other shotguns right now just feel terrible to use, and this has high base handling (and to me anyways) feels way more consistent than other shotguns, which is why people might think it is "op"

[@Tuck44]

This. Other shotguns seem to whiff more. Maybe this is related to the ADS bug that was going on with shotties? 🤔

[@Kratos176]

Agreed shotguns are so inconsistent it’s terrible they need to make fusions as inconsistent as shotguns are rn

[@likafoss]

If everyone is super, no one will be -Syndrome (Make Shottys feel great again)

[@dredgen0268]

I just find it funny that such a good and potent weapon comes from-without a doubt-the easiest raid Destiny has gotten.

[@fotis3v480]

The jumping puzzle alone makes it worth having such a good gun. Fkk all bungie jumping puzzles.. thankfully i can skate through a lot of stuff.

[@XxHUNT3RN4T0RxX]

It’s also the most desirable new D2 raid exotic since Anarchy almost 5 years ago. Not counting D1 raid exotics.

[@oxsila]

That's a good thing. The last thing you want is something stupidly overpowered in PvP being hard to obtain

[@gavo7911]

@@oxsila Well good thing it's not stupidly overpowered at all.

[@everythingtankpit]

Easy to obtain is subjective to a players rng. I’ve farmed RoN every week on 3x characters for months now. Had several “boosts” active I farmed out the other challenges Friday and cleared it another 37 times and finally got it sat.

[@a5ylumpri5oner3]

Great video Fallout Great vid, I think if it gets nerfed, a tool that is needed in this modern sandbox of PVP gets removed, Well and Bubble are already unfun supers, and it's not like conditional is outperforming other godroll shotguns in the range department for 1 taps. IF they nerf conditional, bubble and well will for sure begin to go unchecked more often on all levels of play in PVP, having such a tool, which isn't a guaranteed win (still have to hit every pellet then get off the shatter or wait for the explosion), is still a welcome tool to be used.

[@majormallard366]

I think its because its the only exotic aggresive frame in the kinetic slot so it makes a good pairing with things like igneous hammer, not only that its exotic perk is really strong and its a raid exotic.

[@blseodm]

I feel like CF is right where it needs to be for PvP. It's a solid counter for defensive supers, but it doesn't have a better engagement range compared to most legendary shotguns. It's a double edged sword that hard counters and has counters.

[@Ginyasha-]

I really hope they don't nerf it. It needs to be there, as you said, for anti bubble and well and got to have that exotic feeling. Otherwise you're back to blade barrage and that would mean being a sad hunter main like myself 😅

[@anth3lion344]

My only two gripes with it are its crazily consistent airborne capabilities, which often leave me scratching my head, be I the dealer or the receiver, and the numerous occasions I have been hit by the weapon, my health visibly reduces by 80% give or take, and then I spontaneously die. Obviously, that last one may just be networking issues, but I've had it happen a lot, which is why I've listed it. Other than that, I have no issues with the weapon and personally believe that the trials related issues with it stem from the game mode, which encourages bubble/well use in the first place (I prefer solar titan/strand warlock personally).

[@TheLunicinformer]

as a wellock myself i actually agree with this video, in pvp your game play loop should have to be more then just getting your defensive super and camp zone. maybe they should weaken the health of the bubble and well even more so,but also buff the damage buffs they provide as a consolation?

[@fitz37]

Couldn't agree more with the predator/prey ecosystem analogy. The gun is good!

[@Sylv925]

Here’s an idea: equalize all super cooldowns in trials. This way every super is a threat and there won’t be any hard meta for super picks in trials since currently if you aren’t running an insta cast super you’re throwing. You could even make it so that kills still give super energy which would make it so you got your super earlier in the round to give you an advantage and an incentive for killing people.

[@hunterglassford8650]

I hear what you're saying, but this is the exact reason why the cooldown differences were implemented (pretty sure it was implemented near beyond light's launch). Sure bubbles and wells are annoying, but they don't turn the game into a super war of attrition like how things used to be. The old days of trials were literally people hiding in corners waiting for their super to charge (geomag chaos reach especially pre nerf). Bungie is trying to steer the competitive and trials ship away from ability spam so this would not help the issue in the current sandbox.

[@jameswilles7814]

That’s literally the way it was before they changed supers into “tiers” of regen rates, and there is a reason why that happened. Some supers are *just* better than others assuming cooldowns are the same. I do think that the super cooldown tiers should be revisited, specifically for well and bubble, but I don’t think scrapping the system entirely in certain game modes is the most elegant solution.

[@ballom101]

Then the problem shifts heavily and we go back to the issue of what led to super tiers in general. And only only a handful of supers become a threat while the others just die. If we make every super have the same timer, we go from triple bubble titan to triple stasis warlock. Winter's Wrath is still basically the king of roaming supers. It can duel and shutdown other roaming supers with easy. And can stop shutdown supers mid cast. On top of this, the disgusting level of tracking its projectiles have just make WW a bit of a...problem, in this scenario. And that's not even getting into Shadebinder's neutral kit. :x

[@merrilly-]

solution: increase cooldown for well and bubble in trials and make freeze shot immune towards supers (or need 50 stacks of slow or something like that). It's the only way to not power creep I think

[@CtChocula_III]

If they wanna "nerf" conditional, they can just buff the effect of vorpal weapon, one-two-punch or under-over etc, so they are more effective against bubbles and wells. That'd make for more legendary weapons that can be used to blitz an instant-win super, as opposed to being locked into using one weapon. They could kust adjust the tier level of well and bubble inside of trials though, too..

[@saarabazdriftinginvestamig8434]

As I've seen others mention it here, the problem isn't with the gun (although it's good on it's own). The problem lies with the facts that Bubble and Well come up so quickly in comparison to other supers and we don't have a lot of options to deal with them outside of other supers which have longer cooldown.

[@bigf00tgaming37]

Definitely doesn’t need nerfed, but it’s really difficult to figure out what the main issue in all of this is. Is it well and bubble usage? Or is it actually the damage of shatter in general when in PVP.

[@FlashesSoccer011]

It's not hard to figure our. It's 100% bubble and well usage. Every game mode now requires camping a zone, so of course the fastest cool down defensive supers are being used.

[@FunnyBones25]

​@@FlashesSoccer011Well then is it not a gamemode issue?

[@rwboilol5696]

​@@FunnyBones25Exactly ^ people don't seem to understand this

[@FlashesSoccer011]

@FunnyBones25 that's an illogical argument since none of the other supers in the game have even remotely the same potency as well or bubble in those game modes. The game modes do encourage that play style, but well and bubble have very few consistent counters to them. So bubgie either needs to completely remove all objective based game modes (which will never happen), or allow for things to hard counter those play styles.

[@FlashesSoccer011]

@rwboilol5696 people like you don't seem to understand that's a stupid argument. Instead of trying to sound smart, actually use your brain. Those two supers have significantly more potency in every objective based game mode we have. Bungie either needs to remove objective based game modes entirely, or allow for things to hard counter that style. It's not a game mode issue. The ONLY reason people are even complaining is because there is a gun that makes their brainless "pop bubble on the point" playstyle more dangerous. People just want to abuse the annoying strategies that leads to winning, but then cry when everyone figures out a counter. PVPers are hypocrites.

[@gkinjo3696]

Honestly, I don't know if the game's sapagghetti code will allow for it, but having super Tiers be different in PvP and PvE might help, that way we can make bubble and well less viable in PvP by increasing their cooldown while reducing those of roaming supers, that way we don't have to worry about PvE and allows for Conditional to be nerfed without worry.

[@shawlawrenceYT]

If there were more ways to counter bubble/well this wouldn’t be everywhere. But it’s an exotic that feels unique and useful, we need more of those.

[@krmag556]

Is it only me or sometimes the target aquisition screw me over ?

[@rippinricky]

I feel the same. For having so much handling it feels odd with certain FOV’s. My friend also said the same time. Sometimes is Goated and sometimes I’m in disbelief.

[@sparky00777]

It's being overused right now because it pairs so well with igneous hammer (or a bow)

[@gavo7911]

It’s only overused because Well and Bubble are so ubiquitous with objective game modes

[@sacredprovenance5451]

Also the fact that ron is farmable for the first time ever, so a lot of people are just now getting it (myself included)

[@sparky00777]

​@@gavo7911also this

[@alaskanwhiskey6383]

By far my favorite exotic. I mainly use it for pve but it can also be used very easily in pvp, just overall a super unique and useful exotic that feels so good to use and rewards you for it.

[@bodensun]

maybe something that's been suggested before but I really feel like the way to do this would be to make bubble and well tier 2 or tier 1 supers and adjust them in pve to compensate. give bubble a 35% weapons buff or something like that to make it worth running and leave well unchanged (it'll still be the best pve super by far). this should reduce their dominance in pvp atleast in shorter gamemodes and give other supers enough time to counter them without needing conditional finality

[@JonnBell]

It’s far from the problem in Trials right now. Bows need to be addressed before anything else. Starting with body shot damage and ease of use

[@NightmareCV]

Conditional is very strong but it doesn't consistently feel outlier strong, with one exception. Conditional seems to just straight up win a fight between two shotguns regardless of who fires first as long as it was close. In speaking with other players they also express the feeling that it just seems better in a straight up fight regardless of stats. I don't know if that is a weird server thing or what, but that is the only thing I would change.

[@geoffreyscrivens3600]

It could be the first shot’s spread is a triangle and the other is a circle but that’s just my thought on it

[@DarthDude44.]

I agree, it stomps on my 5/5 matador. I exclusively use kinetic exotic primaries and energy specials so it feels really annoying when I get killed by it over and over.

[@btwglock3737]

I absolutely think it should stay as it is, but I think the only issue with it is that many many players don’t actually have the ability to do raids, including myself. We just don’t have the time, or the fireteam and lfg is a scary place especially if it’s ur first experience and so it’s very difficult for the majority of the player base to get the weapon. If it was slightly more accessible, like through a zero hour type mission, then I would be absolutely all for it being as it is rn but it’s just the exclusivity of it is the issue for me

[@binguser386]

even tho i dont have lightfall i think it should not freeze the people in the well since it counters slow and freeze so the igniton should just be a delayed kill if your a bubble titan i think that you should be frozen still

[@brianhuskey5718]

We need more weapons that fill conditional finality's role in the pvp sandbox

[@arealphoenix9897]

I feel like it could use a nerf, but not until bubble and well are also nerfed. Also, IDK why it freezes people in wells 🤔

[@MaeBearheart]

So I did my first ever reset in Trials last night and honestly the bubble/wells were *way* more oppressive than *any* of these guns, mostly because with good awareness we'd never let that player in our range. I like the gun a lot even if I don't have it. I only saw 1 non-Well or bubble super from ranks 6-reset. I did have an absolute chad Hunter knock a Titan out of his bubble when he tried the "pop it on flag and just AFK the match out" tactic tho, gonna upload that for sure lol

[@SenAkari]

I've seen Conditional a lot lately in regular Control games and honestly I just get aped by them a tonne. When putting up a well, people tend to try and challenge me by hitting me from afar with Scouts or hailing grenades at me. I have never been completely shut down by it so seeing the Warlock in the video get frozen by it was honestly surprising to me. I don't hate the gun, especially if it is an active counter to the oppressive Bubble/Wells on Zone Capture Competitive game modes. I see it like how I see Vex Mythoclast - it should be a cool as hell weapon with its own unique trait that makes it stand out from other guns in the game like the 390 RPM it had. That's what makes them exotic.

[@DARTHJOE94_]

I think conditional is a great counter to these passive supers that can otherwise just automatically win a match. It's in a good spot too as far as lagging slightly behind top tier shotties you would otherwise like to run. I often run other weapons and swap to it as a counter win a know supers are almost up which seems like a healthy balance to me

[@PaendaTube]

That's the problem with the gun. You can just swap to it for the rounds you think the super is up. It's like why even run the super when all anyone with the gun needs to do it do a quick loadout swap?

[@DARTHJOE94_]

@@PaendaTube why run any other super when those are the first ones up and auto win the game?

[@ransomdean9141]

I think the problem isn’t the gun, it’s the sentiment of getting killed by a gun you don’t have/feel like you can’t get (similar to Lunas back in the day) I feel the exact same dying to Vex because I’ve still not gotten it, but no one wants to nerf vex as bad right now.

[@wickermind6668]

Vex literally got nerfed at the start of the season by having its RPM shafted because Bungie thinks a 1% drop rate raid exotic shouldn't be really good compared to crafted legendaries.

[@davidgrant2819]

Something needs to counter bubble and wells in trials. Perhaps bring other supers in line, perhaps nerf bubble and well so that other weapons can counter.

[@jackherman1310]

The one thing I'll say about Conditional Finality is that despite it being a raid exotic, it is still consistently in the top three weapons for usage. So this means that Vex Mythoclast being a raid exotic wasn't the reason for its low usage. Basically, Bungie shouldn't worry about Vex being too strong because if it was then it would have usage like conditional. This is probably a bit of a false equivalence, but I don't care, I want my 390 back. I like 360s, but vex has none of the perks required to make 360s fun.

[@FlashesSoccer011]

The Vex change was awful. And it feels so bad in PVE too.

[@MrOZ-tf6zi]

This should be the series of events: 1) increase the time it takes to get bubble / well super (2) nerf conditional either the gun itself or make it so that is not as easy to get double kills via the elemental explosion (3) also bows

[@lazykb]

My only issue is the explosions make it like cloudstrike for body shots on a shotgun.

[@nsfryguy]

It's fine. It doesn't need a nerf. The fact you need to be in their face is already risk enough. But it also requires a follow up melee. So it doesn't one shot, it requires a second one. It is balanced in that it requires a follow up action and an appropriate amount of risk to be in their face to get enough pellets to freeze an enemy.

[@innocuous526]

I’m just here to help a homie with rent.

[@cheesecakekraken6695]

Thoughts: I would love a way to spec into slow/freeze resistance via armor mods (probably also other subclass verbs as well), and either other supers need shorter cool downs or well and bubble need longer ones so that that aren't a given in a match. Conditional isn't the problem per-say but, it shouldn't be able to effectively one shot bubbles, BUT we need better counters to bubble and well overall. And in my mind that means other supers

[@Definitely_not]

Another aspect is that having that happen to you while in a bubble or well is completely your fault and you can easily outplay it because they’re the one having to push you and you’re the one with the massive damage buff

[@Edgetarian15]

I think a good pve only change would be to have each pellet in a shot deal ten scorch or slow. It already takes ten pellets so that would make too much sense and would make it more consistent

[@upstartmyst3734]

This isn't a problem with the weapon itself, it's a problem with trials. Zone capture in trials will always lead to people using the fastest supers, or the strongest base abilities, as you need to gain control of a section of the map as fast as possible. This problem is amplified by uneven heavy spawns on a lot of maps, and the special ammo economy in general. I think the simplest fix in general is to just change how special ammo works in trials, and remove heavy spawns entirely. I think a good change to fix the special ammo in trials, which would also help with CF being strong, would be to just give everyone 5 kills worth of ammo at the very start of the match, and then nothing for the rest. Special ammo wouldn't be dropped on death, or lost between rounds, so everyone has less ammo overall, and you wouldn't be stuck without any if you got revived and desperately needed it. This would also help with how obnoxious snipers are throughout a match and would give a pseudo-locked load-out effect to trials so you can't just swap when supers show up. You can't swap exotic armor for a free bonus to your super anymore, so people shouldn't be able to just swap to something that counters it instantly between rounds. The community in general needs to think on things that become problematic past the thing itself. Yeah the T5 supers are strong, but why? Because the matches are too short for anything else. Why are the matches shorter? Because of zone capture. Why is zone capture truly obnoxious? Generally it's because you can hold a zone by yourself because you get 2 kills of special every round. One person can kill 2/3rds of the enemy team with only their special ammo each round. There are plenty of other problems that I could get into, but if you just focus on the one thing that is at the forefront and never ask why it got there, then you get things nerfed that don't necessarily need to be.

[@justsomeguy8778]

Less time thinking, more time playing dude.

[@KingLeaps]

Conditional is not a problem. It definitely holds its own as a stand alone great shotgun, but there are better options in the same slot that don’t take up an exotic slot. I think the utility of being able to fight against WoR and Bubble is really a byproduct of how oppressive those supers can be in game modes with objective points, ex: the change to the main game mode of Trials.

[@TheGuyWhoCantPickAName]

It’s cool but I recommend some small nurfs like non compatibility with flare bolts or something

[@larry8651]

I haven’t had raid or dungeon exotic drop in over 18 months wish I could get this weapon

[@astralluv2051]

I think the main pain point for me is not the high handling, high payoff shotgun exotic that can counter supers, but rather when Conditional Finality randomly kills me much further out of range of pellet shotguns. I think they could quite comfortably real back the range a bit and make it so that the exotic is super powerful in those well timed cqc shotgun shots.

[@LoDaFTA]

Hot take: Raid/dungeon exotics should be the strongest weapons in the game, and should make people build around, and against them.

[@wy100101]

My only gripe is that if you play solo, you have a hard time getting the gun. I agree 100% that it needs to be there to put a damper on well and bubble. My only play currently when I see those is to run away. I wish I had a weapon that provided some sort of counter play for the ridiculous amount of map control bubble and well provide.

[@Rayzofdeath]

I just got this gun the past week when RoN was farmable(didn't feel like playing the raid over and over week by week just for a chance, would rather sit for a couple hours on an encounter). I gotta say that it is a bit of a shift from using my usual shotguns like Found Verdict, Fractethyst, Matador, and Imperial Decree. The range is just not comparable, esp when half of those shotguns i use have slideshot and/or opening shot on them that further boosts their range. I definitely feel like that's one of the main things keeping this gun in check, there's a bit of a learning curve(for me at least) on where the kill distance is for the gun in hipfire. I'm still just slightly too far away to kill with Conditional, whereas if I had my Found Verdict, it would've been an easy kill. The gun is in a good place IMO, it definitely is one of, if not the most consistent counter to Well/Bubble, so I can see why people think its too strong, but coming from a Well main, I think its one of the best options to shut down the T5 supers, seeing how frequent they are in Trials.

[@Goose_3718]

as much as I love conditional with over 6000 cruicible kills on it and it becoming my favorite pve gun as of right now it could use a nerf to make it more risky and more rewarding like making sure that u have to hit all of your pellets in order to ignite/freeze and widening the pellet spread this way it forces people to be more accurate and you don’t get frozen as often.

[@jacobself6122]

Bro, if you're triple bubbling in trials you deserve to get wrecked. Such a lame play style... conditional finality is perfect the way it is, and if it's debated this heavily that shows that it's probably pretty balanced overall. Unlike vex, which was juicing out of the gates. Personally I think Well and Bubble should get nerfed instead since its basically a free win. If you got 3 on your team, that's 3 free rounds.....

[@rabidtick2206]

The question I have… does chill clip do the same thing off of one shot? Basically the shotgun has chill clip and incandescent. Cool duo on one weapon. So, do legendary special weapons with either perk alone benefit equally? If the answer is yes, the weapon is fine… if no… well but said perks?

[@ethanreese8078]

Just got it and I'm so excited

[@DivineVHS]

"A sunburn and a bunch of gaps in my memory" SENT ME!!!! lmaoo

[@tuxedoterrorwrist]

I think it's more of a product of the meta that makes it such a commonly used gun. It's one of the few counters to well and bubble that isn't a super, and considering how many tier 10 intellect bubble and well players there are it makes sense why it's used so often. Combine that with how it counters both antaeus wards and juggernaut (and how damn common arc titans are) and the fact that two of the best primaries in the game, Ammit AR2 and Igneous Hammer, are in the energy slot AND you can double dip dexterity, unflinching, and targeting mods with them since Conditional Finality can benefit from Solar mods if it's on its second shot (although it's usually better to use stasis mods), and you can see why so many people use it. Plus the fact that it synergizes especially well with stasis warlock with iceflare bolts (and technically solar subclasses) just puts even more icing on the cake. And if you're a psychopath who uses one of the other RoN weapons in the energy/heavy slot Conditional Finality counts for a stack of Harmonic Resonance. I think one thing that Bungie should at least consider doing is adjusting super tiers so that well and bubble have the same cooldown as shutdown supers like blade barrage or nova bomb. This would make it so that Conditional Finality isn't the only counter to a tier 10 intellect bubble/well, which could make more players opt for different special weapons. If they did this and Conditional Finality still had a high usage rate, then they could discuss if it needed a nerf or not. If they were to nerf it, I think it would be best to nerf its handling so it's weaker in the neutral game, but would keep it as a nice shutdown utility while not affecting it in PVE.

[@RawrasaurRS]

The trials match is 3-3, the other team gets a bubble 1st. Now said team has 2 more supers because the bubble gave chunky orbs. That shotgun is needed right now.

[@traviscalder]

I think it's important to have weapons capable of countering the dominance of T5 Bubble and T5 Well. Witherhoard is also a strong option in that category, but you usually have to swap to Witherhoard while you can use Conditional as a shotgun all game long. I do find myself annoyed by dying to it, on the receiving end it feels like it's easier than most shotguns for people to spin on you and land a 1hk, but I don't have it so I can't tell if that's just bias. Which is the big problem. Putting one of the best PVP exotics not just behind a raid, but behind RNG hell that may require a large number of clears.

[@Neon-Of-Ninja]

I actually haven’t used it in pvp much yet but in pve it’s so flipping fun. Such a well made fun exotic for so many Demario’s

[@azure98]

What it sounds like is we need more predators in the water because defensive supers are being too good at what they were made for. Or a shift in objective based modes and weighting to make playing around heavily defensive comps through proper point rotation is viable.