HF Bubble Balancer Flaw Part 2 (& fix??)

[@jamesdean5677]

Hi, how did you make your circle? I have a Ford Excursion that has a hub which is too large to fit the cone by a little bit but still fits on the ring. If you could share how you determined how to make that circle I could use this to get around all kinds of craziness and fabrication. If you remember, please share. Thanks.

[@richbinaz]

I think I just held a sharpie between my index and thumb, spaced it a bit using my second finger, then turned the ring under the sharpie. However, I was never able to get a wheel to balance properly on the bubble balancer, so I turned to other solutions. kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5-ZpIiIq7qbeKM This one seems to work well for me and may work for you - if you can find the right size ball to sit the tire on... Which may be hard at such a large diameter ~125mm?? Glass may not work considering the wheel weight. kzbin.info/www/bejne/i4eom2CprdidgJY Another method I use is this... kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqaYlIeDptV8nrs Just have to use something to support the hub and get the internal friction of the hub down. Cheap hubs can be found at a junkyard or rockauto or amazon or... The hub I saw on rock auto had a preload nut that could be loosened - helpful. Then you just have to get the grease seal out, which may work easier on that hub. Need to balance the cost of having discount tire balance them vs cost of making your own rig.

[@jamesdean5677]

Thanks so much. I have balanced maybe 10 sets of tires so far and I would say that 8/10 are perfect. I was considering a single hub centric ring in this case for the 125mm bore on the Excursion but none could take up the gap. My plan is to take a piece of abs plastic and a compass along with dial calipers to make my own ring.

[@richbinaz]

@@jamesdean5677 I was just thinking that if you removed the wheel support frame, it could fit on the bottom flange. Can you center it on that flange? Image with frame removed kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5-ZpIiIq7qbeKM

[@jamesdean5677]

@@richbinaz This is a great idea! I do believe it will fit there but I am not sure how I would center it on that flange. Like you, I am scared to eyeball it.

[@richbinaz]

@@jamesdean5677 Is this where a hub centric ring could work?

[@chrisingram7277]

I think your solution is probably the same as mine, from a product review comment, I've been getting under the balancer and similar to milking a cow, I pull down on the spring assembly and slowly put it back up to the rim, I think this also centers the assembly on the rim. I seem to be able to get it down to 1/4 oz accuracy, (doing the rotating of tire for comparison)

[@richbinaz]

Gave up with the bubble balancer, was getting wheel vibes at 65mph +did this instead kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqaYlIeDptV8nrs And this, when after the seal removal, the preload was too high kzbin.info/www/bejne/opqZlHWHd8iCjpo The hubs give good results and I did learn how to avoid dynamic instability. Perhaps I should have just taped a glass ball to the pilot, put it on a hard level surface and tried the laser again. Would have been cheaper and just as accurate?? (tip from another KZbinr). I may end up doing just this for my sons smaller Xb, rather than buying a new hub.

[@chrisingram7277]

@@richbinaz I've used the hub on utility trailer with good success, it would be nice to have a universal hub for the car tires. It seems easier and more accurate than the bubble balancer

[@danielsmith7105]

Not sure i'm gonna buy one of these after watching your videos ! I might go with a simple sphere in the hub hole and placing it on a completely smooth level surface, then measuring the distance to the surface around the circumference of the wheel. And / Or using one of those self levelling lasers and placing weights until it all section of the rim are equal height? These are clearly not worth the £80. I need to come up with my own solution. Have you read about the bada method for supposedly more accurate placement of the weights? thanks for the video BTW, its proved very helpful.

[@richbinaz]

I am trying to find another way to balance the tire the same way I do motorcycle tires, which is vertically. About 2:40 in on this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y2W7nayBobqVidU To that end, I bought a rear bearing hub and fashioned a support from some T bar I had from an old garage door opening rail. Sadly the internal friction of the bearings and seals is too much. They also cleverly made the unit near impossible to dismantle by cold rolling the axle shaft up over the end of the bearing. Your idea with the ball bearing has a lot of merit. It gives direct contact of the ball to the pilot on the wheel, which puts it right where its needed. A hard flat level surface is needed to withstand the high point load of the ball. Go for it - good idea! The self levelling laser is really quite good, just need a tripod to mount it on. It was a cheap one from amazon but works just fine. don't need to pay extra for the bosch name. Bekoywoy was the name for $35. For weight balancing, I did learn that if you need to put on 2 weights, put one on the outside and one on the inside, or better, use stick on weights as close too the CG vertical plane as possible. That avoids the dynamic "shimmy" problem. Now where is that CG??? Good luck Daniel

[@richbinaz]

Worked a bit more on the wheel hub to reduce the friction and I think it works kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqaYlIeDptV8nrs

[@JCcanU]

@@richbinaz You have to get a Junk yard axel with the same lug pattern as the wheel your going to use and make a jig to hold the axel and weight of a wheel so it can spin free . to go through all that trouble and price, you can have a shop do it every 4 years when you need tires .

[@richbinaz]

@@JCcanU I used a new wheel hub for each car. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqaYlIeDptV8nrs Yes it's pricey and a challenge, but it's also a hobby now and it works nicely. I am also not beholden to Discount tire to do my tires, flat fixes and balancing

[@cybair9341]

I have the same problem of inconsistency with this Chinese bubble balancer. I improved it to some extent by freeing the pivot but it is still inconsistent and it drives me crazy. I'm losing my time and my patience.

[@richbinaz]

I did a final critical review video here kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5-ZpIiIq7qbeKM The whole thing is so poorly made, at least the one I have is, it just isn't worth using. It is now a paperweight in my back yard shed. There seem to be 3 possible answers 1. Horizontal balancing: With a glass or steel ball - but it doesn't work on all wheels. The location of the CG on the corolla alloy wheels made it unstable. Here's a link to that kzbin.info/www/bejne/l2WyqZJ7os1qe9k 2. Vertical balancing: Tricky to create the rig and each hub fits just one style of wheel. The corolla was a 5 stud x 100mm Dia hub. The Scion was a 5 stud x 114mm dia hub. By luck, the 5 x 114mm hub fits my sons CX-5 and I think it might fit a Rav 4 & Highlander. See links in text below the video... 3. Vertical balancing using cones: Much like the way a motorcycle tire can be balanced, This guy uses cones on a home made rig to get a vertical balance. I like it, but the cones are crazy expensive kzbin.info/www/bejne/mnKwZ5-od7R7hbM Link to the no-mar website www.nomartirechanger.com/wheel-balancing.html

[@robbaird5972]

most tire we do not need any waits to put them in balance

[@robbaird5972]

all you have to go is dived the heavy part of the tire half of the heavyest part of the tire to the valve stem, the valve stem is the lights part of the tire

[@robbaird5972]

how do we find the heavy part of the tire?

[@robbaird5972]

if you have a red dot on a tire then line that up with the valve

[@Ben-dv9mw]

I had the same problem and i remove 2 springs! And you must take 2 springs of the same length.

[@richbinaz]

With my unit, even if the spring support kept the wheel perpendicular to the cone (which it does not)... There is still the offset between the inner balance point and the outer cone.

[@ACommenterOnYouTube]

i used this same balancer and have NO vibrations

[@richbinaz]

I gave it a good try, but it was made so badly....

[@ACommenterOnYouTube]

@@richbinaz don't know, i just drop the wheel on it and allow it to settle, tip it a few times on each side to make sure it always does drop to the heavy side each time and it does. Then add weights as needed.

[@vanmasterflash7153]

use the 1.5 inch ball bearing. The hole is off center

[@richbinaz]

Agreed. The hole is off center and I do not have access to tools to create a concentric pivot. But that is not the only problem... The spring frame jams, the cone surface is rippled, the basic balance of the whole head is off... kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5-ZpIiIq7qbeKM I bought a glass ball and tried this ... kzbin.info/www/bejne/l2WyqZJ7os1qe9k At least I know the ball is centered on the wheel, just doesn't work on all wheels.

[@bobbobb7244]

Only one way this balancer will work correctly because cone is not perfect shape. Do not level bubble without wheel on the cone because cone is wrong shape. Shape of the cone even will changed for different wheels hole size. 1. Remove springs and holding ring completely in garbage. 2. Inside the cone make center hole wider with about 10mm drill bit. But do not drill deeper than oringinal hole center located. Add drop of water to drill easier. 3. Gently with grinder or file make the cone support the shape of a bullet without touching the very tip. 4. Gently tighten 3 bubble screws and loose them 3 turns. 5. Install balancer as it should. 6. PInstall balancer as it should. 7. Put drop of oil on the tip. Install cone. Do not try level bubble with srews now. 8. Put any wheel on the cone. 7. Sit down slow rotate the wheel and center cone in the wheel hole every time before check the bubble. That is very important for results. 9. Put mark with black permanent marker to aluminum cone where is air bubble now. 10. Put mark with chalk same direction on the wheel. Remember exactly where is air bubble now. 11. Turn the wheel mark to opposite side 180° from cone mark. Marks should be opposite sides. Wheel on left cone on right. 12. Now only use 3 srews to close bubble to same location it was before.13. Repeat many times to reach perfectly same location of air bubble. 14. After you reach same bubble location turn wheel angle 90° and repeat steps. 15. Put wheights on the wheel. Reapeat steps to check bubble centered. Now it will work perfectly. I did my wheels balancing better than any tire shop. No vibration at all.

[@richbinaz]

You lost me at step 3... The outside cone seems to be cut on a lathe. The first problem is the pivot hole inside is not aligned with the cone. The causes a basic out of balance error. The second problem is the frame which is supposed to control perpendicularity of the frame face to the cone is inconsistent and can be moved to another position (as I do with the screwdriver) This just adds error. Throwing the frame away just makes it worse. This is why I gave up with this design, which is now sitting in the shed. Which is why I moved on to vertical tire balancing, using a friction reduced wheel hub. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqaYlIeDptV8nrs See from time index 6:00 onwards There is another method I'm going to try, a bit more universal I hope. TBD

[@bobbobb7244]

Sure vertical universal PCD hub is much better. I dont understand why they dont sell it. Cone is headache.

[@ACommenterOnYouTube]

wtf to that

[@YT1344]

you have no idea how many times I've lifted and put back the tire on one of these to find a method for centring. In the end, no success!

[@richbinaz]

I agree, it's a really poor design. I have given up with it. Not only is the spring frame aligned poorly, but the cone was offset from the pivot by .018" Did a video for that too kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHalin2sm7FjmJo I ended up buying hubs to balance the wheels vertically, just like motorbike wheels, but then I saw Daniel Smith's method and I really like that one. He tapes a glass ball to the wheel pilot, then rests that assembly on a small tower with a levelled ceramic tile on top. Then uses a laser level to get the balance. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZuwl2qLZpmrm5Y It should work on any wheel, no matter the stud pattern.

[@jamesdean5677]

Not to oversimplify your awesome efforts...I just wanted to share the method that I use religiously to bubble balance which usually results in perfection when I take it on the highway. My test is to slowly increase speed from 55mph to 80mph and cringe while I await even the tinyest level of vibration which usually never happens. Link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fXSvh5aph8ekj7cfeature=shared

[@richbinaz]

That is a very good video and almost everything he says is correct - just not where the CG of the wheel is, but he's close enough that it doesn't make much difference. Specially with that monster tire on the rim. He is lucky to have a balancer that works properly. I lift up a tire, turn it 90° an it's wrong

[@jamesdean5677]

@@richbinaz So sorry you got a crap balancer. That would drive me nuts.

[@richbinaz]

@@jamesdean5677 How does it go? If it wasn't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all.

[@jamesdean5677]

@@richbinaz 😂😂😂

[@bobadingo]

W T S??

[@richbinaz]

W T S means??? I tried and failed to get anywhere near a good result out of the balancer. Wheels vibrated badly at regular freeway speeds Vertical balance shown in links worked much better Here's another method that works on steel wheels, not the alloys kzbin.info/www/bejne/l2WyqZJ7os1qe9k