Hiawatha - Government for the People - Extra History - Part 2

[@Onychoprion27]

That "think about how each law will affect the people up to 7 generations" thing made me shiver. If only modern world-leaders would have that kind of foresight.

[@vanessabeatrice3702]

I agree but things also did not progress nearly as quicky as they do today and things stayed relatively the same for many years

[@sjonnieplayfull5859]

Seven elections allready is 'far away in a future we will never see'

[@shashwatsinha2704]

Yes, that concern for future generations would put a stop global warming and wars.

[@nasunothecat7499]

Most now think about half a generation away, sometimes

[@midimusicforever]

If they could look beyond the next election, that would be a good start.

[@KioneWinterHowl]

This is honestly something that should be used in school lessons.

[@MarquisdeL3]

I vaguely remember learning about the history of the Haudenosaunee (aka Iroquois) in 3rd or 4th grade when we were covering state and local history. I grew up in upstate New York, near Albany. My school actually managed to get some Native American speakers to come in and talk to us about their history. I don't know how much other New York schools teach this though.

[@martinsriber7760]

What is in school lessons?

[@MrCreeper1O2]

+MarquisdeL3 Despite living in southern Ontario, I never really learned this in primary school.

[@Will-ig3yj]

it is, my history teacher uses these

[@andrelee7081]

I went to school near Syracuse, and we also learned about these Native American cultures. The Oneida lived nearby and had a museum dedicated to continuing their heritage, so our school district would have field trips there.

[@Oznarchy]

As a Mohawk (Kanien:keha:ka - People of the Flint) man, I was taught this story since I was a kid. I have to say this is a very well representation of the Great Law of Peace and History of the Haudenosaunee. Thank you for posying this, it means a lot!

[@Dracadin]

The idea that one twig (or arrow in this case) snaps easily, but several of them put together wont repeats several times in history in different places... such a nice symbolism.

[@alin-mihai]

most well known example in the western world is the roman fascia. Also, as a side note, the term fascism comes from this original roman symbol/weapon. They picked it up because of this ancient symbolism (and slightly ruined it in the process for the rest of us)

[@martinsriber7760]

Yes.

[@alin-mihai]

+xEl Gringo Loco exactly. that is the fasci or fasces. it was a ceremonial weapon of a roman magistrate (used by different offices during the history the Roman Empire)

[@CoconutsLord]

no, fascism is represented that way because the italian facist movement, arguing that italy is the continuation of the roman empire, used the fasces(the axe and bundle of sticks) as it's icon

[@autolykos9822]

Yep. I'm pretty sure I've heard the same story told of the Mongols, and it's also shown in Kurosawa's "Ran", with arrows in each case (only the number varied).

[@GrandArchPriestOfTheAlgorithm]

t's actually nice to hear some history that isn't about human misery.

[@jetstreamjackie3437]

Yeah, it's really refreshing! Extra History has a way of telling the obscure parts of history, glossed over by high school teachers, that show how humans are actually pretty good people. I love that about this series more than anything else

[@diegosebastianperez6867]

Goliath100 I hate it.😠

[@hab0272]

I feel optimistic about humanity now ^ ^

[@dennissangil522]

@@diegosebastianperez6867 So you like Human misery?

[@krono5el]

europeans only know death and destruction

[@LikeaWelshSir]

A story of giving up war for peace....sponsored by DomiNations

[@dgmisal1979]

That struck me too...

[@Healermain15]

Yeeeah... That doesn't seem so fitting anymore. But if it gets us awesome stories like this one, I'm fine with that :)

[@user-uy1rg8td1v]

The things about that game is that you cannot start a new game with a different civ. I even tried uninstalling and reinstalling from my phone and it still remembered. Which sucks because obviously I can't play the other civs.

[@Healermain15]

Yeah, it looks like yet another mobile strategy micro-transaction game.

[@JeanLucCaptain]

The arrows not breaking reminds me of Aquarion!

[@myths_and_Legend]

Do you know if this is the origin of the phrase "To bury the hatchet?"

[@extrahistory]

Yes, it is! The tradition of burying your weapons before peace talks carried down for the Haudenosaunee through the ages, so when Europeans met them (and held peace talks with them), it became memorialized in English as well through that phrase.

[@wu1ming9shi]

It carried eve over into many European languages as well. In Dutch for example it is called "De bijl begraven". It really shows how powerfull this sentence has become.

[@MrCaptainCorey]

+Extra Credits man I live in a city named Hiawatha, it is now really cool knowing what it is named from

[@sven7698]

German too! "Das Kriegsbeil begraben".

[@FWRBroadcast]

Romanian as well! ”A îngropa securea războiului” (To bury the war's axe)

[@blueyoshi4211]

Whaaaaat!? A story in history with a happy ending that doesn't get destroyed soon after? What a revolution!

[@greywell2982]

a massive big nope! The Seneca people were forced off there land! :,(

[@aneesh2115]

All of them were forced off their land

[@Redbird-dh7mu]

Uh, yeah no, this doesn’t end well. In fact, there was some evidence that this peace coalition was violent and wiped out some tribes

[@nomisunrider6472]

​@@Redbird-dh7mu That was centuries after the Law was created. Everything erodes with time, including values, and no nation lasts forever. That doesn't make what they did any less impressive or admirable.

[@user-ft3jq5vi2l]

USA induced genocide: am I a joke to you?

[@theory8sf]

Why isn't this story part of American history? People should know about this!

[@malcolmcampbell3912]

Because American History classes are pretty anglo-centric. They start at Columbus and gloss over most of the next two hundred fifty years so they can get to the Revolution. It's quite maddening.

[@bjorntheviking6039]

I was disappointed with the pre-columbian section in school as well, I learned absolutely nothing I didn't already learn through my own curiosity.

[@deathbysvent]

They usually cover it in United Nations history as the symbol of the UN is taken from this Confederacy.

[@wolfedya1]

Except this isn't actual recorded history this is embellished fairy tales passed on through oral tradition and likely the true story included a lot more murder and less heroism. You can say the same about recorded history but atleast the perspectives are always different whereas oral tradition has only one story that is more than likely to be partly made up.

[@deathbysvent]

FED L. That sounds like recorded history...

[@JackgarPrime]

Nice to see that the metaphor of bending arrows is one that multiple societies have thought of.

[@EyeOfEld]

Thinking of Motonari Mori, right?

[@JackgarPrime]

EyeOfEld That's the first one that came to mind, definitely.

[@Healermain15]

I think Ghengis Khan also did something to that effect.

[@joshuaadams-leavitt4603]

Fascie, the bundle of sticks was used as a symbol for the Roman Republic, a sort of "alone we are weak, together we are strong" message. It would go on in later millennia to be used by "Fascists" to the opposite effect, "We alone are strong, the rest of the races are weak".

[@TheMonyarm]

Theres a folk tale about the bulgar khan Kubrat telling this to his sons, but them not listening, which is why the great Bulgarian empire of Kubrat broke up.

[@J0K0R0]

Extra Credits, I'm a big fan of yours. I used to be a social studies teacher on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, and I would occasionally use your videos in class to supplement my history lessons. Too often my students felt like the world didn't know about them. I appreciate your work on this Hiawatha series - if I might suggest a series on some of the Lakota Chiefs, both me and my students would be thrilled. A particularly overlooked chief is Little Wound, namesake of the school I taught at. I think it would be great, and I know a plethora of resources for you if you want them. Keep on doing what you're doing, and thanks again!

[@Colinop]

It's been 5 years, but if you see this I would love to see some of those resources myself, as I have always felt in my education I got loads of post-Columbian American history all centered on the settlers, but I have had very little American Indian teachings, at any time in history and at any location, so personally I would love to catch up on that

[@spacesandshark2418]

Tadodaho having such a sudden change of heart seems hard to believe.

[@Kyman102]

That MIGHT have been a little embellished for the sake of the story, but it's possible that Tadodaho did in fact become a good and honorable leader. The change might have been gradual, but it might have been there. Just, you know, over months or longer rather than in one moment.

[@extrahistory]

There are many different versions of how and why Tadodaho became a good leader, so there's definitely room for different interpretations on that series of events. (I went with the story of Jigonsaseh's confrontation because I felt it was generally underrepresented, due to Haudenosaunee women's stories being neglected even in what limited written accounts Europeans and early Native scholars made of the history. There's a bit of historiography in my decision there too buuut... I won't go into that.) All of the histories agree, though, that Tadodaho was once an extremely violent person who became a very good leader dedicated to upholding the Great Law of Peace. We certainly know that he existed (through the records of their constitution, which mention him by name, and the government representatives who have held his name as a title for centuries) and there's more than enough oral histories about his change of heart regarding the Great Law of Peace to constitute good evidence that he did undergo some kind of personal reform.

[@Kyman102]

Extra Credits You guys going to have a "Lies" section for this story? Might be interesting to hear James break down "Okay this is what we can say is fairly likely" vs "THIS was a little more vague"

[@gma5607]

Oral tradition is a funny duck that way.

[@rahn45]

What person sets out to be deliberately evil? In every person's mind they view their own actions as inherently good. Leaders do what they can to protect their own, and as history has shown often at the expense of others. The reason why modern society functions is the idea that our leaders protect everyone, and if you look at modern politicians they have 'changes of heart' all the time. They embrace the ideas of inclusion, even if they themselves personally do not believe in them; why? Because it's politically advantageous to do so. Considering the situation it was embrace the peace being offered, or face a war on all sides.

[@extrahistory]

As we wrap up this short series, I wanted to take a moment to talk about the Dakota Access Pipeline which threatens the sacred ground (and treaty land) of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe. The US Army Corps of Engineers issued permits for a private company to build this pipeline without consulting the tribe, and the tribe has stepped up to oppose this decision both in court and through ongoing protests on the construction site. Many of the First Nations, including many among the Haudenosaunee, have voiced their support for the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe. The United States once again stands at a precipice of history: whether they will stop and listen to the indigenous people who have held this land in their care for generations, or whether they will continue to put current interests ahead of treaties signed and laws passed to protect America's environment and heritage. If you enjoyed this series, then I urge you to carry that appreciation forward to learn about the Dakota Access Pipeline and listen directly to the voices of native communities about this and many other issues they face today. History does not only lie behind us. You can donate to the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe's Support Fund here: standingrock.org/ You can read about the official statements of support from other First Nations here: indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2016/08/23/native-nations-rally-support-standing-rock-sioux-165554 Thank you. -Soraya

[@lonyaidaniel]

Pretty much like in the movie "Avatar", huh?

[@puchy110]

+724warlord what kind of an ignorant comment is that? So if a robber comes a steals your house, I'll just say, fuck you, you shouldn't have lost it?

[@maaderllin]

Not most of them, and many of those who were were sold by people who knew that they would be killed if the refused.

[@nidohime6233]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIHXhoaBgN91ma8m05s Isn't that from the japanese daimyo Motonari Mori?

[@katex2677]

+724warlord they shouldn't have given their land away? The government was threatening a punishment for them far worst than relocation, and even then they did not keep their promises. They shouldn't have lost the wars? You either have to be someone that doesn't pay attention to or care about history, for at the time was came upon the natives, they were outnumbered and outgunned, their populations ravaged by disease and past wars and travels. They lost the minute the first Europeans come with their diseases and superior technology. I guess you are going to respond saying that they shouldn't have let themselves be exposed to the old world diseases or that they shouldn't have let themselves be outmatched in technology, even though they had no chance to build up immunity or progress their technology to that of the invaders.

[@epicpolyphony]

I love the Extra History episodes. Thank you for making them :)

[@epicpolyphony]

Carson Barlow qué?

[@guitarhausdoesntknowwhatac3285]

Looks like a spam bot.

[@soapibubblesthestrange9972]

+epicpolyphony it is a way of essentially liking a comment, but in a way that makes sure the KZbin algorithm promotes the comment higher in the comment section. :)

[@epicpolyphony]

JustAnother KZbinFangirl I've never heard of such a thing...how does that work?

[@grumpyturtle9682]

You have an awesome profile pic. Like Sauron's girlfriend or something.

[@Leivve]

Such a sadly overlooked part of history. Would love to see Kamehameha the Great, and his Kānāwai Māmalahoe, or "Law of the Splintered Paddle." Which is the basis for our modern human rights.

[@YiGzit]

Kamehameha? Sounds like a dragonballzee warlord

[@InventorRaccoon]

Kamehameha the Great sounds like a weird DBZ OC to me.

[@LeSingeAffame]

I think he was King of Hawai. We can see him in Civilization V

[@Leivve]

YiGzit It's pronounced the same. The guy who made DBZ had a hard time coming up with the name, so his wife suggested the name, and said he could use the King's name to remember what it was.

[@Leivve]

***** According to my college history book "The Kānāwai Māmalahoe has become a model for modern human rights law regarding the treatment of civilians and other non-combatants during times of war."

[@Archgeek0]

Seven generations. That is...definitely something it's too bad wasn't included in the stuff the US constitution picked up from these folks. We might have statesmen instead of politicians.

[@jmiquelmb]

Nowadays it would be pretty useless to have such a long term focused policies (except for environmental issues maybe). Think that seven generations is almost 2 centuries. I agree that some policies are short-sighted but that would be a tad too much.

[@ΟρέστηςΜπέσιος]

siegward of catarina Maybe about 4-5 generations? or about 100 years.

[@tesso.6193]

i think 2-3 generations is fair enough

[@pb7199]

modern/western historians often assume that oral histories are full of inaccuracies, which is of course possible, but the thing to remember is that these oral traditions are sacred and that changing them or allowing them to become corrupted is very likely frowned upon. this is a concept that exists in indigenous australian communities too.

[@ConkerTheCat]

This is my fav Extra History story so far...

[@Trinity0941]

2nd favourite, right before Justinian and Theodora.

[@Ogidamanisha]

Mary Seacole is an awesome one imo

[@Trinity0941]

Random Dane Might watch that one next then.

[@Nemoticon]

Justinian and Admiral Yi was fantastic, but I think this is the best so far.

[@Healermain15]

Mine too, though its hard choosing with all these awesome stories.

[@Tadokat]

inb4 KZbin somehow finds a way to demonetize this.

[@Aviex99]

Violence against women was brought up for a second.... You never know.

[@cookiesxsugar9447]

Sponsored Vid. They should be fine, even if they're demonetized.

[@MrCreeper1O2]

They said war! Demonetize!

[@katex2677]

+Joseph Sosa would it be better if it was the 50 duchies or dukedoms or principalities or something like that?

[@Aviex99]

***** Basically anything "too real".

[@Tamashikiri]

4:37 May I just take this moment to say that Jigonsaseh was a freaking BOSS?

[@yaldabaoth2]

You might as well say "Gandalf was a boss" because she might be just as fictitious as the old wizard. Sources say this happened somewhere between 1100 and 1600. All sources are oral history. This entire piece of history could be a legend (aka lie). At least take everything with a grain of salt.

[@EdwardLCheeverII]

+Yaldabaoth You could say this about almost all of history, including the written bits. Something made up orally and something made up in text are equally made up. So, you do the best you can to evaluate the sources, and any evidence that can be provided. Now, let's run a scenario and flow chart this. Theoretical Event(TE) is said to have happened by oral tradition. Does it have mystical events that seem highly unlikely as our understanding of science goes? Yes = It is less likely to be true. No = it is more likely to be true. Is there evidence that it might be true? No = it is less likely to be true. Yes = it is more likely to be true. Does it adequately explain or fit into the picture of what evidence we do have - and/or The way things are now. No = it is probably not true. Yes = It is more likely to be true. Is there a better explanation that still fits the evidence? Yes = then believe that explanation. No = Believe the explanation.

[@imperatorcaesardivifiliusa2158]

Imagine if there were only 4 nations, "everybody lived in harmony, until the Tadodaho attacked."

[@horesfan400]

it was Walpole

[@robertwalpole360]

I see what you did there.

[@thestrageticgamer1742]

we need a spicey meme

[@ql9066]

+Jukantos nooooo

[@DarkshadowXD63]

+Robert Walpole Only this guy xD

[@cyancat5451]

is this where the expression bury the hatchet comes from? seriously, i wanna know

[@Kyman102]

Some quick preliminary research I did seems to imply that yes, this act did lead to the creation of the phrase "to bury the hatchet". So 'The More You Know', I suppose.

[@WickedMuis]

Yeah it does, just like "smoking the peace pipe", which was used by various Native American peoples to seal a peace treaty: chiefs of formerly warring peoples would smoke a pipe together.

[@JosephKerr27]

Yes and no. While this event is not the first example of the practice, it is the most notable one. It was practiced by many nations throughout Eastern North America and likely spread through the Hopewell Interaction Sphere (essentially a trade network between Native Americans). During times of official conflict, a warclub would be displayed prominently within a village, often hung near the entry to the council house. When that conflict was resolved, the warclub would be buried to signify its end, sometimes wrapped ceremonially to bind it. A new club would be fashioned for each new war. Of course, this is not to say that this ceremony couldn't be performed between individuals. It's rarely easy to tell whether symbolism starts macro or micro... The term "hatchet" is derived from French, so the phrase as we know it came about when Europeans witnessed this form of conflict resolution in the cases where they established peaceful relations with native peoples. Although the idiom now applies to any resolution, the violent significance of the warclub meant it originally only applied to war, as disputes regarding law, trade, etc. could still be open. lol Hope this helps! This lengthy reply is what results from the combined love of linguistics and native ancestry :)

[@hab0272]

I also believe seeing the arrow symbolism in one of the Djengis Khan episodes. Makes me wonder if this is coincidence or that this symbol has a shared ancestry. From what I heard the earliest native americans originated from asia entering the continent during one of the ice ages.

[@matthewegan5281]

Even America's architecture came from this one man's quest for peace? Incredible!

[@matthewegan5281]

THE BALD EAGLE IS THEIR THING! WOAH! :O

[@matthewegan5281]

HISTORY RULES!

[@phslhs]

I KNOW RIGHT!!!!!!!!???????!!!!!!!!

[@extrahistory]

Hiawatha had a plan to bring the last nation into the Great Law of Peace. Warily, the envoys put their faith in him.

[@AceSea130]

how come he always wages war on me in civ 5 then T^T

[@ryanbuttacavoli1781]

I really would like to know what sources you consulted so I could look them up. The sources I had originally consulted on my own never mentioned Jigonsaseh. I would like to know how you found out about her and get more details on her story. Where could I look this up?

[@extrahistory]

You have to dig to find information on Jigonsaseh. She's mentioned in many recountings of the history,, but the versions that focused on her were women's histories that early European scholars had no interest in trying to record. But the stories didn't die; they just had to be tracked down later, albeit at a point after the US and Canada's forced resettlement of Haudenosaunee people caused fractures in their lengthy history of oral record keeping. Start with "The Lynx in Time" by Barbara A Mann, which you can read online with a free JSTOR account. It's a short article, but you can follow her source list if you want to chase this research more thoroughly. -Soraya

[@burtan2000]

As a Syracuse Native and history lover, thank you. This is awesome and it shows so much of how the Iroquois influenced us. My line has chosen the Eagle upon an Oak Branch as it's sigil, and I know it was influenced by the great peace forged on thei shores of Lake Onondaga

[@MichelVaillancourt]

Absolutely loved this two-part. Thanks much for making it.

[@ZenoDLC]

Jigonsaseh may be a woman, but she has balls of steels...

[@jader4935]

I agree but would steel ovaries make sense?

[@forzaacmilan36]

The the title of this video should be"That Guy Who Always Screws You Ever Civ 5 - II: Government for the People"

[@LFGRETIRED]

WE WILL EXPAND OUR PEACE BY SPAMMING ENDLESS CITIES.

[@Slayer_Jesse]

Damn their economic viability, we're going to take ALL the land!

[@xertris]

Not to mention the free roads. Spawned in a Rain-forest once as him. Good times.

[@Paintpenetrator]

how? Iroquois is one of the bottom tier civ

[@LFGRETIRED]

Mustachewarfare NQ changes that.

[@extrahistory]

Bonus episode brought to you by DomiNations! smarturl.it/DOMHistory Your regularly scheduled Gracchi Brothers series on Extra History will continue as normal this Saturday!

[@vulturearmy3780]

Ill admit extra history i first though domiNations was just a rip off of coc but i was wrong DomiNations is much different then of clash of clans

[@xertris]

Thats what dem marketers want to hear.

[@bryanruiz7372]

It's Saturday but there is no video

[@GeneralJakeMLB]

A story of peace... SPONSORED BY DOMINATIONS! KILL EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE!

[@izonker]

Out of curiosity, what School grade-level would you put the History series at? I don't mean this as an insult, rather my wife and I home-school our child and I would like to utilize this series as part of the history curriculum. As always, thank you for making these episodes, you guys have a natural knack with storytelling and making the subject come alive.

[@t.x.762]

I think your child should learn about our modern world and our democracies and politics before history. That way, they can see how our world came to be. So I would say grade 7-9, depending on your child, but history can be hard to teach and hard to learn, and I'm not really someone who knows anything, so no need to listen to me.

[@Croiisssant]

I would say any level where a child can comprehend it. When I was younger my parents took me and my sister to all these places in France. He even made us watch WWII documentaries like The World at War. While I did not understand ALL of it at the time, it fueled my fascination and years later I either read up (or in TWaW case, re-watched) or revisited them. Show these videos to your kids and it may fuel their interest in history. I know, even now, after watching the series about the crusades i researched more about it.

[@LordNebulos]

It might work the other way around as well... What was there before might be helpful to understand the systems of today, as nothing just magically appeared out of nowhere. You might have to try and experiment a bit with how your children learn stuff. And never forget to give them the bigger picture. After all, it is always better to embed these series in the proper historical context that led to what happens in one of those video series (as the series is, though nicely done, still focusing very much on exemplary events in history; anything else just would blow up the whole concept).

[@adisor906]

My fascination for history(which i will study at university)began when i was about 7.I first started with ww2 then i branched out)

[@Zeldur]

Look up Boyinaband. He does rap videos but 1 year ago he did a song called "Don't Stay In School" which talks about things that should be taught in school but instead they're teaching random things. Just a few weeks ago he made a video about different school types and how they function. Try to figure out how they learn best and try to use multiple parts of the brain to help remember it. For instance, the one project I remember best from grade school was how to follow a budget with a random job, random life style, and random unexpected expense. This stuck with me because I took the paper out of the folder for the job and took the paper out of a basket for the life style. One of the banks even came by and showed us the long way of doing taxes which you can now do on TurboTax. It showed exactly how everything gets laid out and how normal expenses like gas, water, internet, and electric can go up so fast. Also, see what they want to learn like knitting, computers, music, drawing, drafting, or anything else. I do agree with Tony Xun, teach them the modern world before teaching how we got here. As a kid, I was only taught WW2 and back so I had no idea what the world was like outside my tiny city until 5 or so years ago. I hope it goes well :).

[@Closto]

As a Basque person myself, I know what happens to cultures that have a strong oral tradition instead of a written one, and it is nice to see some "recognition" (it's most probably not the best word but...) to such groups. As much as adore all these videos on Roman history (and non-ROman history :P), I really appreciate that you gave some time to not so popular cultures and stories. Thanks and keep up the good work!

[@kikikaylaid5691]

thank you for doing episodes on the first nations. I live in a place where spirit is broken and hope hard to find. I've shared this with many friends and it was a pleasure watching people being proud of their history in peacemaking, rather than the last 200 years of hurt and pain. once again..... thank you for acknowledging this part of history.

[@minch333]

Massive respect for Jigonsaseh. What an incredible move of wisdom and persuasion. Wow!

[@joshuaklein943]

you guys always do a great job but this one really blew me out of the water. I honestly feel that your work here goes beyond simple entertainment and when you put together projects like this I do believe that you are performing a powerful social good. you guys are a constant inspiration, thank you for being you.

[@isin4b]

This particular history has been my favorite by far. A story of peace is a rare thing in history books.

[@FuzzyPanda962]

Thank you so much for this fantastic series, Extra Credits. It is clear that a lot of care and passion went in to this two parter in particular and I appreciate that. I also greatly appreciate the ability to know this story since, as a Pacific Northwest resident, I normally would not easily find this story, certainly not a version as respectful as this one.

[@anonymouspotato3453]

I’m lucky-I grew up in an area that was Mohawk territory back in the day, so much of this story was vaguely familiar to me. But it was amazing to revisit it again after all these years. These series has some beautiful lessons. I hope we learn them someday.

[@ZeoViolet]

I have ancestry from the Tuscarora tribe (as well as Cherokee and Lakota Sioux, as well as a whole lot of European, but back to the matter at hand). It is true that they did not join until much later, but I find this history of Hiawatha and the original Five Nations fascinating, as well as this union existing through this day.

[@8bitzodiac]

You do not know how good it feels to get back from your first day of school, after listening to your teachers tell you how hard the courses will be, and finding out you don't have any friends in your classes, only to come home and see their is a bonus Extra History episode uploaded, on a topic that's actually really interesting. It just made my day a little brighter.

[@WildFyreful]

Holy cow. Okay, new role model in my life: Jigonsaseh! O: And props to the Great Law of Peace giving power to each gender. That's more representation than America has ever had in its Senate and House since their inception. o:

[@ZlatkoTheGod]

No matter how eloquent I may become in the future I will never be able to adequately express how much I respect the indigenous tribes of North America.

[@L1M.L4M]

What about South America?

[@Jremyisawsome1111]

"She ran her hands through his hair..." He then pulled out his knife, Lannisters rushing into the hall from both side... Oh, Sorry forgot to mention Gorge R. R. Martin as guest writer!

[@abthedragon4921]

Man, I figured learning about this Confederacy and Hiawatha's history would be interesting but I did't realize it would be this awesome! Man I love studying indigenous Americans ad their history.

[@foxmetro1]

That part where todadahoo actually change blew me away. I kept thinking they'd have to kill him or something, even knowing that wouldn't make good sense.

[@Kyman102]

The big epiphany MIGHT be a little embellished in how sudden it was, for the sake of a good story. But (not a historian, warning warning) I'd probably allow that Todadaho did in fact change his ways after being shamed or spoken to. The change may have been gradual, but it may well have happened.

[@hagamapama]

When I told my mom about what they did to Tadodaho she reminded me that sometimes the best thing you can do to a wayward child, is give them responsibility. Some people just like having assignments. What Jigonseseh's comeuppance did was about giving Tadodaho RESPONSIBILITY instead of power. Her display of motherly authority reverted him to little-boy mode (can happen to any man, at any time, in the presence of matriarchial power) and rendered him teachable, she then proceeded to teach him better, and give the "wayward child" something to do.

[@TheKamalata]

+Kyman102 Hey, I'm Onöndowága, or Seneca. Our legend says that Tadodaho rejected Hiawatha three times. After each time Tadodaho rejected him, one of Hiawatha's daughters died. After the third one, Hiawatha and Deganawidah (the Great Peacemaker) had the Seneca join. And then Hiawatha, Deganawidah, and Jigonhsasee used a medicine ceremony to heal Tadodaho's mind and body. Of course, that's myth. But the three times he rejected Hiawatha could show that it did take some time to convince him.

[@Kyman102]

TheKamalata Thanks for sharing! It's interesting to see the small differences between the story of your people and the story that Extra Credits told here.

[@TheKamalata]

+Kyman102 No problem. EC did a great job at representing the stories I've heard. Even the gustowehs (the hats) have the proper feather design. The feathers represent what tribe you belong to. And the number of feathers and whether or not some are drooping designate what tribe you are. For instance, my gustoweh since I am Seneca has only one standing feather. And whenever they mention the seneca, their gustoweh has one standing feather

[@TheNetherlandDwarf]

giving the warmonger a veto and the most seats... doesn't work well in modern politics

[@player276]

"giving the warmonger a veto and the most seats... doesn't work well in modern politics" Actually, it always has, and likely always will. For all their flaws, the strongest warmongers have the highest influence on history, and wile their actions might be tyrannical, they end up doing far more good in the long run. There is not a single lesson that humans learned through reason and understanding. Everything we came to value was forged upon war and murder. Things like peace, freedom of speech, liberty etc did not come about because we decided they were nice things. They came about after we killed enough people to say "Ok enough of this, we need some changes". The massive loss of life is the reason that things like liberty have such strong presence in western society. It is easy to forget a fancy speech, it is not easy to forget millions of dead.

[@RomanHistoryFan476AD]

a lot of the time if you give someone like a warmonger such a responsibility or position they tend to alter how they act over the years and in a way become protectors of the lesser members of such councils. as without the little people they would not have that power in the first place. plus its nice to have allies and the extra work load tends to draw away some of there attention from just war.this will not work with psycho paths or people like Caligula, Attila the hun or Nero.

[@extrahistory]

Personally I think that's part of the brilliance of it. Yep, he gets a veto... but he also votes last, after everyone else has had a chance to exercise their (effective) veto since any vote that reached him by that point had unanimous support. So what harm is he going to do? At best he can stymie new laws, but he can't propose any, he can't lean on others to vote his way (the constitution forbids representatives from discussing measures in council with anyone but their own fellow nation's representatives), and honestly he's more likely to cave to social pressure on most issues than to pick a fight by vetoing unanimously supported laws *every* time. Worst case scenario, no one promised him the seat for life, so his clan mother could knock off his horns and replace him once the Great Law of Peace became the law of the land. Even if Tadodaho hadn't turned over a new leaf, Hiawatha's checks and balances were going to keep him in control.

[@axiezimmah]

Forgiving people and giving the the benefit of the doubt is a wise move. By hating them you're only fueling their anger.

[@RomanHistoryFan476AD]

Mystogan Edolas there on the psychopath exception clause.

[@timscharett3285]

As someone whose grown up his whole life literally a stone's throw from the village of Mohawk in Central New York, its nice hearing the stories and histories I learned as a child. Rest assured that our local history lives on and is taught each and every year in our schools multiple times over the grades.

[@CalebJMartin]

This story is incredible. I love the symbolism of what eventually became the Iroquois flag!

[@SuperAnimeMangaFan]

I live in the US and we never learned about this in class. This had such a huge impact on American history but we never learned about Hiawatha or any of the native american people outside of Sacagawea and Squanto and I feel like it really has an impact on how we view the native american people even today. I'm really glad I watched this video to learn more about our nation's history before settlers came. And I love the Extra History because of all the obscure history you guys do. But it's really kinda sad that I learned about a really significant moment in this nation's history from a channel that specializes mainly in video game development and not in a classroom.

[@michaleandmore5111]

this made me cry, if only we had more humans like Hiawatha

[@Ulindria]

thank you so much for this mini series, I've always wanted to know so much more in depth about the history of native Americans pre colonization, and this is such a powerful story, so thank you!!

[@alicereader]

THIS NEED TO BE A MOVIE!!!

[@ekinebobmanuel4551]

This is an amazing story! Thank you for making the effort to research and present this information in such a captivating manner. Sincerely, A fan

[@MrPinkok]

Incredibile! I've never heard this part of History, it was so interesting! And i really liked the reference to US constitution and US symbology. Great job (as usual) ExtraCredits!

[@Frizzi95]

I rarely feel the need to comment on videos but I've got to say that these episodes of Extra History are just fantastic. They're entertaining yet also really respectful of history and I don't know many other history shows that cover so much and from such interesting viewpoints in such a short time.

[@TheDamocles74]

That was one of the BEST episodes of this series! loved it!

[@GallowglassAxe]

This should be a required course in American History/Government.

[@katex2677]

I believe the history taught in school is unhelpful to those that wish to make it their passion. As someone that has made history their passion, I can tell you that the things taught in textbooks barley scratch the surface in many instances, and that they either don't give enough space or ignore important events, like the history of native Americans and native people around the world.

[@bobbyferg9173]

+Kate x well how will people get interested in history if they know nothing about it. You can't start to make something your passion if you don't know much about it

[@katex2677]

Bobby Ferg if a person wishes to make history their passion, they need to do their own research, find books outside the board of education, read the works of respected scholars and historians, go to museums that house artifacts from times gone bye. Batter yet, in my opinion, in order to learn a more human story of history, which is believe is the most important way of telling history as it shows that these events from the past happened to real people, read the biographies and autobiographies of people that lived through history and visit the places where the history of your people was made, in my case, visiting the battlefield of the Battle of New Market(a latter battle of the American Civil War where an outnumbered Confederate force along with the young cadets from the Virginia Military Institution drove back the union forces from the Shenandoah Valley) or the monument that stands on Bunker Hill.

[@GallowglassAxe]

GreyWolfLeaderTW I agree with you that school has very little time to cram all the details of the past but I think this is somewhat an important detail. I have never heard of this until now and I was lead to believe that our government was purely based off of ancient Roman and Greek governance. I feel like there should be some reference to this.

[@axelandersson9101]

Its crazy how much these episodes can teach you!

[@WBlake01]

As someone from the EU, eagle connection blew my MIND.

[@muntzerism-diggerism9695]

+GreyWolfLeaderTW one of the founders i can't exactly remember which one (think it was ben Franklin) thought that the turkey should have been the national bird, after he had observed bald eagles fleeing from kingbirds which he saw as less than auspicious.

[@WBlake01]

GreyWolfLeaderTW Of course, but somehow I wasn't expecting them to draw central symbolism from the natives. This is nice

[@Aldowyn]

+luc leblanc (champion des champingons) I've heard that story too, but I'm not entirely sure he was serious.

[@karencoy4329]

Great job at telling this story of Hiawatha and the Great Law.

[@nachofilament294]

One of the problems with oral tradition is you often end up with a very detailed story of a past event that is colored with modern values.

[@hagamapama]

And yet, that keeps the tradition such as it is, alive and vibrant.

[@ryancalkins4367]

7:48 As a fan of symbolism and cultural inspirations I'm glad that this was put in the video. I did not know this about my country's own seal, and this makes me appreciate it a little more. Thank you

[@TerrorBlades]

"And so he placed an axe in the bundle and proclaimed him self lictor."

[@ibanezs470dx]

You made my day :P

[@Anndrei02]

Wish Rome was that civilised in their symbols.

[@mixth]

One of your best series in Extra History yet. Thank you so much guys and, of course, the sponsor :)

[@luiscolorado]

5:26 oh, snap!

[@Aeimnestus1]

Holy crap Daniel. I haven't gotten chills like that since the Admiral Yi episodes, and not a single arrow has been shot.

[@prashantchaudhary2569]

Indian medieval history is also interesting , why don't you make a short clip on it eg King Shivaji , Bajirao who hadn't lost any war or why the Decline of Mughal empire !

[@Aabergm]

Many years after published still an amazing bit of history I would never have learned otherwise. Thankyou.

[@bobsmith7066]

Fun fact, Benjamin Franklin wanted the turkey to be the national bird

[@nqinadlamini]

Wow. This was all new to me. Thank You Extra Credits. The part about Washington and US the national symbol blew my mind. Seven full generations, what foresight. Thank you again.

[@joslenpettit5350]

For the record the Iroquois did not always remain peaceful, they had countless wars with groups like the Huron over territorial disputes. Also: to address something you said in season 1, they do frequently go by the name of the Iroquois, and groups made up of the natives still live in Upstate New York and have some ability to have a say what happens in areas. Source: I've lived in Upstate New York my whole life and we are taught a lot about them.

[@Sweatymilkshake]

Saw the titles of these videos and immediately thought about the train... But this was super interesting! Totally gonna try to learn more about this guy

[@ceka50]

And here I am in civ just nuking the shit out of everyone as Hiawatha

[@crazyasalways9272]

I really want more episodes like this about diffrent cultures i live learning new things and even enjoy watching episodes about stuff i already know

[@JerryDurante]

People seem to forget that the Iroquois where incredibly warlike. In the 1600 and 1700s they conquered most of New York state, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Virginia, Illinois all of West Virginia, Ohio, Michigan, Kentucky, Indiana and lower Ontario up to and including the area around Toronto. If it wasn't form small pox and the industrialization of the America they would be a separate nation today. The Iroquois where warriors and conquers. They where on the same level as the Aztecs and Mayans with out stone buildings.

[@thetruereality2]

The enormity of effort this man has shown is equivalent to great men and women of the 20th and 21 at century Thank you for such a great history

[@TheCart54321]

Man if only all of us humans were like this

[@0Quiwi0]

Every time you do these one person histories I get a new hero. Sure I knew about Hiawatha, but I didn't know how great he was. These videos are something awesome!

[@TheKamalata]

Not to discredit Hiawatha in any way, but Hiawatha was a follower of Deganawidah, the Great Peacemaker. If you're interested, you can do some research on him. The stories I've been told by my father about this usually center around the Great Peacemaker.

[@NovaGN]

More Native American history please!!!

[@smmizanurrahman71]

This is great. Really enjoyed it.

[@kobilibero6007]

"Nothing could break us!" Guns, guns can break you

[@jprior1427]

Well the council is still around today so i would say they were more bent then broken.

[@bonebard6178]

still you could think of the gun symbolically as the europeans

[@ilonasapel3072]

**freedom intensifies**

[@phslhs]

robin hood And the american revolution

[@justincronkright5025]

If said musket-balls could actually hit their target. I guess yes then!

[@cherryvanillacola6149]

This has got to be one of my favorite *History* Episodes

[@sarasamaletdin4574]

This is nice but the way it is told sounds more like fairytale than history so it just leaves me wondering what excatly happened which is frustrating.

[@Orthanderis]

Welcome to oral history.

[@PanzerIVAE]

Even if Orthanderis already said it, yeah it is because the Iroquis did not have written history so all of their history is just passed and passed and passed on Hell we don't even know how much is this story exaggerated throughout the centuries or even if most of this is true The Lies Episode of this series is going to be pretty interesting because of it doe

[@Twisttheawesome]

If I recall correctly, Iroquis tribes would essentially have "Historians" whose entire jobs where to memorise the long history of each individual tribe, tell the stories and act as counsellors to other members of the tribes. They would begin teaching their successors at a very young age, too. I don't know how satisfying that is to hear, but it at least isn't just a collective heresy of history

[@Orthanderis]

To be fair, most of the native tribes up here have a very rich story telling tradition, so everyone in the tribe at the time probably heard the story an untold amount of times as a kid too. Then it just plays like a game of broken telephone through 3-4 hundred or so years. As long as you get the gist of it then the message has a meaning, and the meaning is the important thing, not the details.

[@HsienKoMeiLingFormerYANG]

King Roshi sure make native islander under his rule of terror until Prince Kara-rot Carrrot Cake stop him in truce.

[@mihirm3632]

Wow what a great story. Would be amazing if someone made a film out of this!

[@hyperlinkblocked1775]

7:00 Hmm. Sounds like something a certain bald Italian man said.

[@NoName-hg6cc]

Who?

[@antoniolukovic3112]

Such a beautiful tale, a lesson most nations seem to have long forgotten

[@slindber81]

Person has sudden change of heart when faced with the evil of his actions. And that's where we see that this is, at least in part, a fairy tale.

[@TheKamalata]

If he had not have a change of heart, why would my people call our president the Tadodaho?

[@slindber81]

I mean it seems much more likely that he didn't change one iota, and either pretended to have had a change of heart.. or even more likely, it's been fudged a bit as history is written, or told, by the victor.

[@TheKamalata]

+Sam Lindberg we were all victors. He made a great enough impact on the Haudenosaunee that we call the Great Chief of All The Six Nations the Tadodaho. Believe what you will. Maybe he changed because of the Great Peacemaker and Hiwatha counseling him or maybe he changed because he realized he could not win against such a large foe. Our stories say he turned down Hiawatha three times before being met with Hiawatha and the Great Peacemaker and 49 other Chiefs from around the confederacy. And that time he agreed. So maybe it was a slow change.

[@firecage7925]

Sam, on another side though(where history is still a bit fudged), he didn't change quickly. Maybe it took months, maybe years, where he slowly changed. A more realistic scenario personally would have been had they put him in charge of the defence of the Iroquois. Where he could still go to battle, but not take any offensives. Where he was in charge of all their combined military might, but charged with protecting their homelands.

[@mr.cup6yearsago211]

Firecage one person in this comment section said that tahodaho actually refused three times, and accepted the fourth time when Hiawatha showed up with 49 Chiefs.

[@isadoracostahamsi163]

I love the episodes about history we don't learn in school, the ones about Europe are fun, but the ones I never heard of are so much more intriguing.

[@MrMarinus18]

You should try doing the beaver wars. In that to keep up with European demands for fur the Iriqui conquered the entire great lakes region and a huge territory below it. They killed hundreds of thousands all to satisfy demand. They also wholesale depopulated areas.

[@bentoenjes6553]

This is one of the most beautiful stories I’ve ever heard. I’m legit crying right now.

[@joee7809]

dang the native Americans are more peaceful then europe

[@joee7809]

and equal

[@mager56723]

not really. Even if we assume the Iroquois never fought anyone until the Europeans arrived (and there is some evidence that they frequently warred with the Algonquin people's to their east well before any Europeans arrived), the Native Americans also included hundreds of other tribes that frequently raided and skirmished with one another, alongside Major civilizations like the Aztecs, who were basically Rome but with more human sacrifice and better astronomy. sure, most of these weren't as devastating as Europes wars (Unlessthe Aztecs were involved), but that owes more to smaller populations due to a lack of agriculture than any inherent peacefulness.

[@PanzerIVAE]

>Native Americans are more peaceful The North American Tribes frequently raided and attacked eachother over resources, land and border disputes The Aztec Empire waged war to capture enemies and slaves to sacrifice to their gods And you don't form an Empire like the Incans with being peaceful no? Like seriously what the fuck is this drivel you are saying

[@joee7809]

I accidently meant to say equal but put peaceful and ran with it

[@ethpling165]

Joee Take a good look at a map. Note the nation’s titled “Canada” and “United States”

[@peterii3512]

Intrestingly the exact same story about the five arrows are commonly told in Mongolian folklore. Khuluu (I think) had five children who constantly bickered over who would rule. She asked for a single arrow and then asked for her sons to snap it. It was easily snapped then she said "being only alone is weak" then she asked for five arrows and then asked her sons to try to snap them again. They couldn't do it. She said "but together we're strong".

[@Nukle0n]

Good story, but probably more story than history.

[@Naveeel1]

interesting distinction. how do you separate the two?

[@Nukle0n]

You can't, the actual events are lost to time. All you can see is the results of these supposed events and see that clearly they made this confederation, but then wonder how much of it really happened. A lot of it probably did, but I especially doubt the way Tadodaho magically changes his ways because of a single confrontation?

[@RomanHistoryFan476AD]

History is a story though of mankind.

[@cookiesxsugar9447]

No more than the stories of the crusades they did a while back.

[@Nukle0n]

Thing is, those were written down and thus while they might be embellished haven't been retold through centuries. We don't even know when these events took place, or when Hiawatha supposedly lived. The famous belt of Hiawatha was created way after the Europeans arrived and can thus not be the original.

[@jaredlosier7688]

What a master strategist... We will give you the position of power... which is basically the exact same power of everyone else. Beautiful story.

[@Peasant_of_Pontus]

Or what more likely happened is that Tadodaho conquered the six nations and his descendants made this story up to legitimise their rule.

[@riverofmolecules]

This is just ignorant. The existence of the Iroquois Confederacy is fact and the representative democracy established. If Tadodaho just conquered everyone, it would be an entirely different government there that Europeans later met. There are parts that are less established or potentially embellished, but what you said was just devoid of knowledge.

[@deathbysvent]

That is really not likely. Oral histories have been shown to be quite accurate when tested.

[@sarasamaletdin4574]

Why could Tadahado conquered everything and later has democracy established? It is not like agreements like that can not be made later.

[@Thumbdumpandthebumpchump]

+Kyle Miller When tested? Care to elaborate?

[@KOVIK]

+Sara Samaletdin This tale wasn't passed down by a single person. If that were the way it went down, everyone would have known about it. You can't stealthily conquer people without them knowing about it.

[@brockmckelvey7327]

I think that this is my favorite Extra History series :)

[@Altrue]

Wow, so much of this Hiawatha story survived and interwined with our culture, amazing!

[@samh1022]

I'm glad I saw this series, thank you!

[@candiduscorvus]

This is one of the best pieces yet done.

[@urquizagabe]

I feel this... So damn hard. I have no words to communicate how deeply this has touched me... Or maybe I do have words, they just happen to be in language I do not know. Thank you Extra History, for showing me things I did now know that I wanted to know. Keeep going.Lesson learned? Peace. Booya.

[@moldovancrisis5482]

Thank you for this. Incredibly powerful and interesting. I intend to learn more about Haudenosaunee League in the years to come!

[@AjnosFTW]

Thank you for this small series! It was a very interesting topic and I really enjoyed the illustrations' clear storytelling.