Hidden London Hangouts S2E11 - Kingsway's tram tunnel

[@Toffeeabi81]

I started watching this channel during covid i love it. I give me so much pleasure watch the chemistry between all of you as well as the history of london transpory history

[@epicridesandtours]

Siddy's "Live Show" started with a photo of a horse-drawn tram. Did any of you notice the Funeral Director's shop behind the tram? "Embalming" and Child's Funeral" on one window. It indicates how bad things must have been, that a child's funeral price would be prominently displayed. My parents grew up in the Rotherhithe area. Dad's family lived several years in a slum on the Isle of Dogs.

[@RGC198]

Thanks for the excellent video. I have read a lot about the Kingsway tram tunnel over the years and it sounds like a fascinating place. I grew up in Sydney Australia and I remember riding trams through the tunnel from Wynyard to the crossing the Sydney Harbour Bridge. This was later closed in 1958 and trams have never returned to that area since. I live in Melbourne these days. Plenty of trams here, but no tram tunnels unfortunately. I was actually born only a month after the London tram system closed...missed it just by that much!!! Grin!!! Anyway, thanks for all the great information, which really gives an idea of what life was like back then.

[@keithhales6740]

I can recall travelling through this subway as a child. Lived in Highbury, and took the 35 tram from Highbury Corner. All the trams lined up in Theobalds Road at the north entrance to the subway, and were signalled through one at a time. Sitting in the upper deck front seat, it was exciting as the tram turned left onto the ramp and plunged down into the tunnel. There were two stations in the tunnel, Holborn and Aldwych, though the latter no longer exists as the Strand underpass took over that part of the tunnel. I distinctly remember that the conductors used whistles to let the driver know to restart at the stations, rather than the usual bell. Maybe it was too noisy for the drivers hear the bell.

[@alexgrundon2346]

This is BRILLIANT information. Thank you so much for taking the trouble to add it

[@nashelian8848]

sorry to be off topic but does someone know of a method to log back into an Instagram account? I somehow forgot the password. I appreciate any help you can give me

[@felixjonas77]

@Nash Elian instablaster :)

[@nashelian8848]

@Felix Jonas i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site on google and I'm in the hacking process atm. Takes quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.

[@nashelian8848]

@Felix Jonas it worked and I actually got access to my account again. I am so happy! Thanks so much, you saved my ass :D

[@rogermorley6100]

FABULOUS, and many thanks for this excellent documentary. I've waited a long time, to find any significant footage of the Kingsway Tunnel, as it fascinated me so much as a child, and I just loved the idea of going underground in a double-deck tram, and then resurfacing to the view of the Thames. It was a Sunday afternoon treat for me, for my Mum and Dad and I to go in our car from Edmonton to Manor House, park the car, and catch the tram! Sadly, by the time I was old enough to know about such delights, much of the network had been lifted, and the tram tracks terminated at Manor House, and I seem to remember that the tracks still turned out, off the road, into their depot. As a young lad, I just ADORED the trams, and I was just old enough to enjoy them, before they disappeared . . . SAD. Trams were fabulous, and the Kingsway Tunnel was the ultimate experience!! (To a little boy) I did have a trip on a Feltham at Crich Tramway Museum, not so long ago. That brought back some memories!

[@thehaylingbilly]

I have been watching every week since the start of the hang outs, but don’t often watch live. Thanks for going ahead without Chris rather than not giving us an episode to watch as you’re right it gives us all something to look forward to when we can’t get out to do the actual tours. Chris was in the videos so it’s like he was with us all anyway. Did my last actual tour (to bring me up to date with them all) at the start of March and have been enjoying the hang outs since then. Did my second of the virtual tours yesterday and I’ve got the last of the 3 still to look forward to as well. Was so glad to hear in this episode that you have lots of plans for future hang outs as there as so many more places for you to visit on our behalf. Keep them coming guys and look forward to seeing all 4 of you again next week. My Saturdays wouldn’t be the same without you all.

[@alexgrundon2346]

Thank you SO MUCH for your kind words. So glad you’re enjoying them!

[@PodgyAsthmatic]

Excellent again guys, I've always wanted to see more of the Kingsway, thank you again for these Hangouts, they do mean an awful lot a me in these uncertain times. Thanks, John, AKA Podgy Asthmatic.

[@peterwatts4163]

I worked as a civil engineer at the GLC from 1976 until it was abolished in1986 in the department that designed and built flood defences along the River Thames. I was also part of the emergency response team that would have co-ordinated repair work in the event of a major flood from a tidal surge. The emergency control centre was at the tram station in the Kingsway Tunnel, so i went there several times on exercises. I also went exploring and found the wall on the other side of which is the road tunnel. I didn't find any £20 notes, though. I travelled on a tram through the tunnel during the last tram week in 1952 - I still have the tickets!

[@claudiocabraldias1153]

Another awesome episode Alex, Siddy, Laura and Chris! Thanks for sharing these unique hidden pieces of underground story during lockdown 👏🏻

[@kevinreed9232]

Fantastic episode very informative and interesting as always. well done you, three lovely people. and I hope Chris is back next week so we have the fantastic four again. keep safe and looking forward to the next week's episode.

[@bobhornsey2072]

As a child my mother took me through the Kingsway tunnel as a treat, front seat upstairs I loved it !!

[@davekirwin]

Superb episode! Fascinating subject and Siddy's slideshows are great, with fantastic photos. Thank you so much for producing these episodes, they are weekly treat and I get my 'London' fix!

[@Citydwellerpodcast]

Greetings from Chicago! Thank you for another great episode. My wife and I had to cancel a trip to London earlier this year, so these Hangouts are a welcome opportunity to pay virtual visits to London!

[@dougiebates1781]

Just watched your fascinating program which brought back memories of my late Dad taking me on the Tram when I was a small child from where we lived just off the Holloway Road down into the Kingsway Tunnel.

[@longbranchmike488]

The walkthrough the tunnel, and the sped up version, are amazing, thanks!

[@CLechleitner42]

Thanks for another *great* episode! I might have to get myself that "Rails in the Road" book with my next LTM shop order ...

[@ljrigsbee]

Thanks for another great episode, Fantastic Four! Looking forward to the pub quiz, I’ll have my pizza and Prosecco ready!

[@stewartskardon7376]

My second time of watching this episode about such a unique feature of Hidden London. Having visited the site on a physical tour it’s so good to be able to see it again on screen. I’m also so proud to work for Camden Council who have helped to ensure that this precious gem has been preserved for the enjoyment of us Hidden London fans as well as for future generations. Another great episode team!

[@suell1090]

Look what we need to go back to Kingsway tram tunnel 1800. It is an excellent environment with no problem queues of vehicles. Sure, here you go: We want to go back to the lovely Wandsworth tram tunnel bus. It holds famous nostalgia!

[@djdubls]

Great piece of history. Would be cool if it was repurposed as a mini branch of the LTM with some original trams on display!

[@keithhales6740]

Preferably with a tram offering trips between Theobalds Road and Holborn!

[@si002]

It's good here isn't it this is a great one, I must try and watch more of these!

[@stuartkeen5234]

That is brilliant , saw it so many times as a child driving past and wondered what it was like. Btw love the ruck sack.

[@Joebaire]

Wow, this moderator is really passionate and enthusiastic! It is contagious!!

[@dougmorris2134]

Hello, Watched and enjoyed your Episode 11 and noticed something rather prophetic in the photo of the trams at the Kingsway tram stop. The fleet number of the tram on the left hand side is “1952” - that was the last year of the London trams.

[@Enevan1968]

I noticed it too... Almost eerie :-)

[@dazzlingdaz187]

Loved this! Good to see the return of the Siddy Slideshow. Looking forward to seeing the gang again next week

[@alexgrundon2346]

You’re awesome

[@qzwxas100]

Started watching hangouts from series 3 recently, was so interesting that I ended up bingewatching to the latest, now watching the pre series 3 ones. When Laura said she can't believe it's episode 11 I'm just thingking....you know you're going to do a couple more right...., my new favourite channel, keep going.

[@neillroy]

Oh crumbs that was brilliant and I love your rucksack. So jealous.

[@alexgrundon2346]

I adore my cheeky moquette rucksack

[@MrPipeline89]

An amazing episode as always bringing history to life and in such a different way! Alex, Siddy and Laura you have done an amazing job! Also...for future episodes maybe keep Siddy's Slideshow or Pix with Nix as a section, quite catchy and fun section of the show! Can't wait to visit the Transport Museum once again in the near future!

[@uingaeoc3905]

On thehorse tram destination board I can assure you Raymouth Road SE16 is still in Rotherhithe it connects Rotherhithe New Road with Southwark Park Road. I should think it was the name of the stop at the junction of R'hithe New Rd and the tram continued to Old Kent Road, the Canal Bridge (Surrey Docks Canal to Peckham ) is near where I live, it was removed in the 1980s as the canal had been drained in the 1950s. and is between the two major retail units either side of the OKR. If you look carefully near where the PC World shop is you can see a row of Canal workers cottages have survived, isolated from any streets - but look at a satellite image of 'Sandgate Street SE1 and Canal Grove SE1'.

[@jmhale5874]

When the trams finished, LT explored the possibility of using trolleybuses through the Kingsway Subway. The idea was abandoned as clearance was very tight when two trolleybuses passed each other. I believe that one was rebuilt with an offside entrance, too. Thanks for another brilliant and enjoyable programme.

[@alexgrundon2346]

❤️❤️

[@stigroo9058]

hi all-for once Im here early going to rewatch last week as well since I was busy leaping about with election excitement

[@queeninprogress1449]

So glad you went ahead even without Chris this week. That was such an interesting episode! Sorry to have missed it live this week. Love the backpack! Already looking forward to next week! Take care guys x

[@jimdarrell441]

Wonderful episode. Thoroughly enjoyed the return of Siddy's Slideshow! I propose a drinking game for when I rewatch the episodes. 1 shot whenever someone says TILE. 1 shot for the word MOQUETTE. 2 shots whenever Alex says HOLBORN (pronounced HŌBORN).

[@alexgrundon2346]

This is exactly what we need. And a full glass of alcohol DOWNED IN ONE whenever one of us says “ANYYYYBODDDDDY”....

[@markdonovan6810]

Answer to your question raymouth Rd runs along the side of the southern railway viaduct, linking Southwark Park Road and Rotherhithe new road, keep up the great work you do five stars all round 😊

[@juliesmith5567]

I loved watching this it gets in with all the older and the new tram and busses from the years so far back from hear and there, I still want to travel there to see a museum of trams old and newer with busses with models

[@macrostic]

At one stage the Kingsway Tunnel hosted FloodNet, the pre-Thames Barrage scheme to decant floooded out citizens to higher parts of `London. A radio network was necessary to co-ordinate between the various broughs. This was a pre-Internet, pre cellphone time. As a radio amateur I was part of a team to provide emergency links. There were rehersals every year. I guess the FloodNet control room has been dismantled but for a while on the surface in Kingsway you could see the antennas.

[@madhatter61]

It looks like one side of the platform has been infilled , was that for storage or was one line taken out of service. Where are those lamp posts from?

[@rogermanley955]

The subway was closed for rebuilding to enable double deck tram operation on February 2 1930 and reopened 15 January 1931. The trams used were the new metal bodied E3 type and the first car through, painted white, was car 1931, wooden cars were not supposed to be used but some did slip through. The photo of the 31 tram in Holborn station was pre-war, they had headlight masks after 1939 until withdrawal. The 31 was the first line to be closed as a result of stage one of 'Operation Tramaway' and the subway closed on the night of April 5/6 1952, not 1953, with the withdrawal of the remaining routes 33 and 35. I rode through the subway many times on a tram. The roundels said 'Holborn' or 'Aldwych' and they were blue. The trams were powered by the conduit, overhead was forbidden in Central London.

[@willduffay2207]

Fascinating story! I'm not sure we should be 100% enthusiastic about the 'slum clearance', however. The construction of Aldwych and Kingsway involved the demolition of buildings which had survived from before the Great Fire. Yes, they were in poor condition and the area was poor and full of crime, but if they had survived (big IF, considering the destruction in WWII) London would have some 'quaint' Elizabethan streets to cherish. But progress has to advance...

[@gaz11h]

great video and of interest, been following the restoration of LCC 1 (Bluebird) at Crich tramway and learned of kingsway through the reasearch around that tram

[@jgodfrey546]

Most enjoyable & insightful! Wondered where the tram tracks went to when I stumbled across them on a London trip. Surprised there was no info on the conduit between the running rails to power the trams through the tunnel, though. Back to binge watching...

[@travellifewithjobo5740]

Liverpools' 1st road tunnel is still called 'Kingsway'."2nd road tunnel is 'Queensway'.neither had trams running in them.The rail tunnel is much older and part way through is immersed in a lake.

[@uingaeoc3905]

You are unaware that Queensway did have a separate tunnel for trams under the road tunnel then?

[@travellifewithjobo5740]

Did I nod-off or did you mention the slot in the tracks for the electric plough which picked the power from the slot , for the tram motors as overhead wiring was banned in the centre of London

[@alexgrundon2346]

We didn’t mention it but you are right

[@b_altmann]

Before the whole Crossrail thing started, it was such a unique and rare open time capsule - in the middle of a city.

[@RGC198]

Here is a strange coincidence. In London, they had to use third rail for the trams in the city, due to the overhead wires not being liked. In Sydney Australia, they have a new light rail tram line and once again, they have to use third rail in the city, due to the overhead wires not being liked. They even have a changing point, like London, where the trams change from third rail to overhead wire. Now that is history repeating itself without a doubt.

[@WalterSippel]

Of course you've fans....you make a fantastic job!!!!

[@alexgrundon2346]

Walter you are LOVELY!

[@hunyesmith03]

The advert behind the horse drawn tram advertising “Child Funerals” is both depressing and fascinating. 6:43

[@andrewbrown1712]

Belated comment: I seem to remember the GLC’s Flood Control Centre being based in the Kingsway Tunnel in the 1970s and early 80s.

[@keithhales6740]

Since normal exit/entry was by the rear nearside platform, conductors must have swapped the platform chains to use the island platforms in the tunnel. LT built an experimental trolleybus with a rear offside door with a view to converting the tunnel for trolleybus use, but this didn't come to anything, presumably because the trolleybuses themselves were doomed. Was there enough headroom to accommodate overhead wires, and would they have got permission to erect overhead on the Embankment anyway?

[@alexgrundon2346]

You’re amazing! Great info

[@keithhales6740]

Apparently tram boarding and alighting was at the front next to the driver. The trolleybus was number 1379, and made two runs through the subway in 1939 on battery power. Extra batteries and an air tank for the brakes were added, for which the lower deck seats were removed. On both runs, north to south and return, the batteries ran out and the bus had to be towed out. This info is from Ken Blacker's book "Trolleybus", 1978.

[@edbridges1164]

I Think the Roundel in Kingsway Station area Said "Kingsway (Holborn)" it was the Opposite way round to the Underground Station "Holborn (Kingsway)"

[@b_altmann]

I guess the fake roundel set in Helvetica bold (29:47) is what we can also see at 20:15? They could have at least set it in Gill if they were really too difficult about letting them do it in Johnston Sans

[@longbranchmike488]

I like how at 21.29 the tram number is 1952!

[@UndergroundEric]

I bloody missed it again! 😂😂😂

[@alexgrundon2346]

Back again next week!

[@andrewchivers509]

Is that a phallus on the wall at 20 minutes?!

[@wescreek3493]

From Canada with love I use to live in London and did not know this even exsisted

[@madhatter61]

There's a good possibility that those bricks are Durex glazed bricks. Stanley brothers.

[@t2Steve1960]

I haven't read the comments as yet as still watching your work. Thought i'd stop and ask at this moment 32.00 into the video. Did your team/editor miss a moment??? The old image of the double dekkar trams underneath with island platform (number 31 tram) is that not where the team are calling colleague for potential shenanigan's. I don't think i missed a referance to it being one and the same area thus far in.

[@PaulBurchell-y1e]

You failed to mention that until the Thames Barrier was built and opened part of the Kingsway Tram Tunnel housed the London flood control centre

[@Ozpeter]

I watched this mainly because of that connection, but as you say, it didn't seem to be mentioned and it is hard to imagine exactly where that center would have been located. I was part of the WCC team which would have swung into action if the flood had ever happened, the radio operator in fact. All before mobile phones were invented. But I never saw the tunnel. It was just as well that the flood never happened because the preparations were hopeless to say the least...

[@Blade_Daddy]

Love Siddy.'s sweater.

[@boz1810]

This is the best episode yet! Thank you so much for making lockdown 2.0 more bearable. Stay safe

[@alexgrundon2346]

Thank you so much boz. Glad we’re helping a bit 😊

[@piggybakkers]

I don't think the entrance was re-routed to exit under the bridge. I think you'll find the second waterloo bridge was constructed to the side of the original therefore incorporating and covering the tunnel exit.

[@alexgrundon2346]

Worth more investigation I reckon. Thank you

[@Nick.Magnus]

Just did the Kingsway tunnel tour yesterday, and learned from the tour guides that the embankment entrance was indeed re-routed to exit under the bridge - the work was done in 1937. The new entrance also accomodated the double-decker trams. Great tour, by the way - well worth doing!

[@alexgrundon2346]

Magicnuns thank you. And I’m glad the tour confirmed what was in the show. We hate being wrong, much as mistakes happen occasionally.

[@Nick.Magnus]

@@alexgrundon2346 I've just started watching more of these Hangouts videos (what took me so long?), and I think I'm hooked...! The four of you make a great team. Instant subscribe!

[@alexgrundon2346]

You’re so lovely for saying so. I’ll make sure I pass on the kindness to the other three loons x

[@unittaskforce]

A great companion piece to the Virtual Tour from the museum. Really enjoying this second series, you guys are fantastic.😀👍

[@alexgrundon2346]

❤️❤️

[@danielboulton98]

worse thing that happened is getting rid of the trams

[@si002]

Well the worst was 7/7 or the war but I know what you mean

[@themistocleszammit]

As always, utterly fascinating. No Chris - could not his cat have stood on for him? Have you seen this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4bMXoCMfKeshbs

[@alexgrundon2346]

Pussy Galore

[@stigroo9058]

good luck peebee143

[@peebee143]

Are you in the States, Roo? If so, may I ask which team you voted for?

[@stigroo9058]

@@peebee143 IM IN THE STATES_ WHY DO U THINK I AM ORANGA

[@stigroo9058]

@@peebee143 BIDEN/HaRRIS

[@stigroo9058]

didn't mean 2 caps

[@si002]

@@stigroo9058 creepy joe

[@louwezeeman2646]

I lost "kind of" count.

[@classicbuses3615]

If you want to borrow a tram to live in the subway, let me know!

[@alexgrundon2346]

OH MY GOD REALLY???

[@frasermitchell9183]

Sorry guys, this could be good but at the moment it's just too glib and shallow. You can do much better than this !

[@peebee143]

Hi, quick message to Chris, Alex. My PC, complete with contacts and some of my passwords gone down. Currently working off a laptop, which does not have all the info I need. Little future project which I am trying to organise still ongoing in the background. Will be back in touch regarding that subject soon. Best rgds., peebee143.

[@alexgrundon2346]

Intriguing !!

[@peebee143]

Topped 110 viewers this week! Well done all! :)