Hide a Hose VS Chameleon Retractable Hose Central Vacuum Systems

[@theloneviking9145]

Nice video! Only thing I would have liked to seen like the back part of the wall or diagram of how the hose is hidden.

[@kevinboothe9991]

The hose stores in the pipe

[@flagmichael]

We have a "sock" generation Hide-a-Hose in our house. Maybe our problem is that we live in Arizona, but my BIG complaint with the sock is that it picks up so much dirt and dog hair. I know if I do the Hide-a-Hose update we will still have the static attraction but at least the hose surface will be readily cleanable. I don't get rips in the cover from the clamp, but rather from failure of the sock at the far end. I'll still stay with Hide-a-Hose upgrade to get rid of the hated sock, but to do so I will have to do some drywall repair. A year ago it would have put me off, but I've been doing a lot of drywall repair he last year or so . Just one more thing to do. Lots of people would not feel that way. I would not want to transport the hose. We have two outlets: living room and hall closet - that reach all the inhabited parts of our house. Much of the time I am dealing with less than 30 feet of the 50 foot hoses. I have a few months to think about it, as our home upgrade budget is pretty thin right about now. Last year I corrected my mistake of buying a too-small central vacuum. Thanks for the exposition; I may change my mind before making the choice, or She Who Must Be Obeyed may make the choice for me.

[@WJCTechyman]

You just commented on my comment saying you have no problems so far? These are exactly what I'm talking about. extending and retracting the hose picking up grit and sand wearing down the pipe as you go, reducing efficiency as time goes. If it's picking up the grit from electrostatic charge, you may as well replace the loop as well because that grit is sanding down the inside of the pipe, creating sloppy tolerances and thus leading to efficiency drop.

[@mikemackenzie3382]

But you're still dragging a hose around the corners??

[@VIKINGOCATIRE]

Beautifully explained!

[@Geny_Mom]

Hi I have a question. Can u install hide-a-hose if central vacuum is already installed with the vacuum system in the basement and the basement is finished..?? Let me know… Thank you

[@robertcarullo4926]

What central vac system would you recommend? that is hose is just a hose, to any system? I am just learning about Central vac. I want to get one. thank for any advise.

[@thefurious69]

How do I email you sir? I’m not the brightest. Thanks

[@jhomrich89]

which one do you think is better for long term reliability

[@flagmichael]

As a Hide-a-Hose owner, I want to get rid of the sock. It isn't the clamp that gives me problems, it is just that the bottom end of the sock gets work over time and tears away, but mostly I dislike the way the sock carries dirt. I presume all vacuum hoses build up static charge but the sock makes it a lot harder to clean.

[@kevinboothe9991]

I work for a company in Northern Utah called The Vac Guy. We've been a dealer for Hide a Hose dealer for many years as well as Chameleon dealer. I prefer the Chameleon system as we have far less call backs. Both are really good systems.

[@realista182]

@@flagmichael you convinced me to avoid the hide hole system, and choose an external hose. less practical of course, but less prone to have dirt on it, at least i could clean it lacking the sock....

[@kristastorey7161]

The house we just bought has a central vac that was installed in the 80’s? . I would like to update all the ports and install a hidden hose. Is the chameleon easily installed into an existing system?

[@garretcook8169]

Old post but I'll answer for you. The short answer is "Maybe". Hidden hose systems require different piping for first 35 to 50 feet from the inlet. If an installer can access the existing piping via the basement or attic than it can be fairly easily be updated. If you have a finished basement or no attic access, than drywall will need to be taken down making it an expensive venture.

[@The_Eric12]

HELP!!❌❌❌ We have central vac that looks very similar in the garage, but it blows out so much dust the cars are filled. Not sure why cause we changed the filter and there’s no leaked holes other then the slits at the top and the exhaustion. I’m honestly about to build a cabinet around it or put a damn tarp over it. Can I do something like re route the exhaust away from the cars? Or how bad would it be to put a bag over it?

[@owenperkins]

Eric, it sounds like something is very wrong and I would like to help you solve your problem. What's the make and model of your machine?

[@The_Eric12]

@@owenperkins it’s a beam, it’s dark grey, blue hoses

[@owenperkins]

OK. A Beam has a permanent cloth filter inside. Sounds like yours is compromised. Sometimes they just don't seal all that well and that's one reason I like a system with a disposable filter bag and a secondary filter(s). You might try a new filter in your machine, otherwise the exhaust can definitely be piped outdoors. The shorter the exhaust line, the better.

[@The_Eric12]

@@owenperkins so it does have a disposable bag at the bottom in a little plastic twist off cap. The exhaust is on the left and is quite short.. where do you think the dust is coming from and how would I prevent it?

[@Legendary_UA]

How much effort is involved to retrofit an older system?

[@owenperkins]

The tubing needs to be rerouted/extended so the hose can retract...difficulty really depends on how accessible the existing vacuum tubing is. Houses with attic and basement access above/below the living areas are the easiest.

[@MStar10]

Great video! Main point you failed to address - Whats the COST difference for the consumer? Pls give us a range - thank you - great otherwise!

[@davidr4690]

Hi Owen, I was told the newer hide a hose socks don't have the issue of bunching up. Can you say if that is true? Something about the sock being stuck to the hose now? I'm trying to decide between the 2. Thanks!

[@owenperkins]

This is true, the sock on a newer Hide a Hose does not slip down nearly as much as the older ones used to. There is some kind of adhesive coating applied to the outside of the hose during manufacturing before the sock is put on.

[@davidr4690]

@@owenperkins thanks for answering! Difficult choice deciding between them. Is the ability to swivel on the end of the chameleon important?

[@owenperkins]

@@davidr4690 I find the Chameleon's longer swiveling hose end easier to use, personally.

[@kevinboothe9991]

​@@owenperkinshave you noticed if the adhesive breaks down over time? We prefer the Chameleon system as well and our customers that have had the Hide a Hose system in past homes and have gone with the Chameleon in their new homes also prefer the Chameleon.

[@alexanderjamieson7971]

Thanks. I plan on installing a MD central vacuum and was wondering if chameleon was the better of the two retractable hose systems. Is there a limit on the number of ports a central vacuum can support? Or is just based on the length and total volume of pipe installed?

[@owenperkins]

We have found that systems with more than about five or six retractable hoses do seem to work better when split into two units. Our go-to power unit is the MD M715h, and we try to use hoses shorter than 50 feet when possible. Even with 50 footers, though, the performance is still very good as long as the piping is well done.

[@alexanderjamieson7971]

@@owenperkins thanks!

[@owenperkins]

@@alexanderjamieson7971 and sorry for taking 10 months to reply, by the way. I'm sure by now your system is installed and in use!

[@alexanderjamieson7971]

@@owenperkins not yet. I am still renovating my house.

[@kevinboothe9991]

​@@owenperkinsif you need more power, look at MDs A850, we finally got Grant to make it for us as we install a lot of our systems above 7000' in elevation. We just finished a home that is over 26,000 Sq. ft. And an elevation above 8000', we divided it into 2 systems in the house and an additional system in a large detached garage. We used the A850 in all 3 systems. We did the Chameleon system in all 3 as well and a few of the hoses are 60' with socks. We've found that the Chameleon hoses are more flexible than the Hide a Hose hoses. That vacuum power unit will retract a 60' hose in under 15 seconds. One trick to consistency especially with longer hoses and have less wear in the pipes is to keep them lubricated with a good food grade silicone spray.

[@thefurious69]

Boss man where did you get that plastic hose lock for the chameleon? Can I purchase that directly from you? Thank you for your time sir.

[@owenperkins]

Your friendly local Vacuflo dealer should have that! Otherwise I'd be glad to send you one...just reach out via email.

[@WJCTechyman]

I have stated to Alex of Performance Reviews that I can see long time drawbacks of these systems is wear and tear on seals and the piping causing blow by and reducing performance of the system in general. Not to mention the piping in the walls has to be as long if not longer than the hose itself causing efficiency drops anyway. The hose also has to be a smaller diameter due to fitting in the piping and central systems are supposed to be harder to block and clog than conventional systems. That’s why the conventional hoses are inch and three-eighths and the tubing is 2” as well. I think it takes longer to pull out and retract a hose than it is to retrieve my electrified hose and plug it in. Also the direct connection valve has another positive as it supplies household electricity for power nozzles and this doesn’t, making us use either a turbo nozzle, restricting airflow or a battery powered nozzle, which has several disadvantages as well.

[@garretcook8169]

We recommend these systems in homes that have primarily hard surface floors and some rugs, or Berber type carpet. That's almost all new construction these days . All of the drawbacks you mention really only apply to a home with thick carpet, which is not the norm. Your statement about it being faster to retrieve a standard hose, connect and rewind it to put it away just isn't the case. It takes about 5 seconds to retract a hose and it's out of site until the next time. The wand stands up nicely in a closet about 3 seconds. Anyone who doesn't enjoy the fun of wrangling a hose back into a neat coil so you can try to get it to hang on a wall will love the Chameleon.

[@flagmichael]

We have had none of those problems with our older Hide-a-Hose. Our floors are all LVP and the new vacuum unit (bought it on a half price sale a few months ago) is sized for houses up to 170% the size of ours - our house is on the low end of the range. I don't see a difference in performance when the hose is only pulled out 20 feet or so compared to being pulled to the 50 foot limit, probably because the pipe has insignificant resistance compared to the smaller, corrugated, and always full length hose. I've never had an issue with leakage at the clamp; it certainly happens but isn't very loud and doesn't make a performance difference I notice.

[@WJCTechyman]

@@flagmichael It takes longer to pull it out of the wall than it takes me to coil the hose back up. Also, I loop electrical cables quite a bit so it's not hard for me to loop four loops onto my hose hanger. When I say down the road there will be problems, I mean more than five years. Also, if you have hard floors, most people could get away with a simple portable, no more than a stick vac and when cleaning the car or other utility work all you really need is a wet and dry vacuum. Think practicality here. Now, to each their own but we tend to come up with solutions to non-existent problems and the Dyson cleaners and these retractable hoses are good examples of that. It's like coming up with a pen that works in zero gravity and someone says, "Why go to all of that effort when you can just use a pencil?" Keep it simple.

[@WJCTechyman]

@@garretcook8169 5 seconds to retract, but I can do four loops with my 35 ft hose at the end of the job in about 5-10. Pulling out 50 ft of hose takes well over twice as long. This is a solution to an invented problem. This is pretty much Dyson-level complexity and marketing at its finest. I am one to advocate keeping things simple, and putting a 50-60 foot loop of central piping under my floor or above my ceiling just complicates things, especially if it has to be fixed down the line as the plastic ages and cracks and that's when the customer would lose the feeling of the novelty and say just put in a regular inlet and give me a 35 foot low-voltage hose. You also lose the fingertip control to say answer the phone or the door. I know at one point there were remote handles but those use batteries and batteries die. I would like to try and reduce the number of consumables in my everyday life and that's where units like the Rainbow, Drainvac Automatik and Aqua Air systems have an edge. Before you say the Rainbow has a HEPA filter, I have to remind you that one, the Rainbow HEPA lasts years with proper use and two, it's at least two or three times the surface area of those found in commercial uprights, Miele and Sebo machines.

[@fidgetthedalmation7433]

@@WJCTechymanhese are your opinions. Everybody has different opinions. Yes, the plumbing has to be longer. Yes, the hose is a smaller diameter. Yes, the system loses efficiency compared to a standard system. This is why these retractable hose systems require a power unit with substantially more power. However, these systems are very much not complex for complexity sake and are in fact quite simple. You have commented on other videos that you like the CanaVac retractable hose. While that has a nice design, THAT is complex and had a lot of trouble. It wasn’t uncommon for the electric retractor to not work and you’d be stuck with this hose hanging out of your wall. Also, the retractable hoses don’t wear the piping much more than the sand and grit that travels through piping with a conventional hose. They will still last decades unless they get extreme use. Piping in some commercial settings has had to be replaced simply because of all the sand that travels through them daily, and that is standard piping and hoses. (They use a lot of sand on our roads during the winter.) Probably the number one complaint I hear from people that have central vacuums is that they do not like to lug around the long heavy hose and coil it up to store it. These inlets solved that solution, and many people love their retractable hoses and would never go back to a conventional hose. The hoses, having no wires, are extremely lightweight and very quick to pull out or retract. Pulling it out doesn’t take much longer than grabbing the hose, but retracting it, as others stated, takes about 5 seconds. You may be able to coil up your hose in 10 seconds, but most people cannot. I most certainly can’t. Those things are a pain in the butt sometimes, they seem to have a mind of their own. Personally, my hose is a standard hose. While it doesn’t take me 10 seconds to coil it up, the amount that it does take is nowhere near a dealbreaker for me. That’s what I use. My central vacuum with its regular hose. I have tried Dysons. I don’t like them. I also agree about the lack of a power nozzle. Since I like thicker carpets in my house, a hide a hose wouldn’t be practical. However, when working in the vacuum industry, you have to think about what other people would want, what would suit their needs. Not just your opinions. Even if you feel their opinions are inferior. So, what I am saying, is that different people have different needs and this accommodates to one the most criticized parts of central vacuums.

[@ystebadvonschlegel3295]

Excellent review

[@michaelparker5030]

Pretty cool 😎 Thanks

[@Arizona-Vac-Pros]

FYI, Hide A Hose also has an end cap that has the metal ring to plug into a standard inlet. It was never something anyone wanted so advertising was stopped. I would never give up the option of being able to LOCK AND SEAL the hose at any length just to save a few bucks in parts. Unfortunately the plastic piece you store in the door does not seal the hose so you are losing a lot of suction while vacuuming and really need to pull the hose completely to let the o-ring seal it. The Hide A Hose lock and seal is not just an o-ring it is a 3" piece of rubber that gives it a nice and tight seal. Hide A Hose is the winner from a guy with 20 years doing retractable hose systems.

[@evanstrittmatter622]

Great to know Jason. So tell me, when will you start gluing the hose ends into your rapid flex hoses so I can stop losing hoses inside the walls of systems? Or when will the locking nubs on the HS5 doors be made of a heavier material so they don’t fall open after 4-5 years of use? Or what about a label on the inlet so customers know which side of the valve is locked or unlocked? These are all problems we’ve been facing for years, but nobody cared to listen. There was a hybrid hose end? That’s news to me…there was no communication to dealers about it, which is a reoccurring trend with HAH. HP Listened to the problems and fixed them. I’d rather have to pull a hose out all the way out to have full suction than have to replace my entire valve prematurely because the lubricant used for the locking mechanism broke down the plastic. Or have to buy a new valve/schedule a service call because my housekeeper/kids tried to pull out the hose when it was locked (I mean, how would you know if it isn’t labeled?) and rips apart the locking sleeve.

[@Arizona-Vac-Pros]

@@evanstrittmatter622 Just to be clear, I am not the manufacturer. I am a dealer who owned 3 dealerships over the last 20 years specializing in retractable hose systems and have sold 2 of them and run our Arizona location currently. Our first location was Retract Vac, you can see focus on retractable hose systems before anyone really new about it. Hide A Hose uses me to help answer questions to dealers who run into issues or just need help with bidding or something technical. We have not had any issues over the years with the cuffs on the Rapid Flex hoses at our dealerships nor have I had anyone asking me about it. Possibly you got some bad hoses that had an issue, but that is rare and does happen in manufacturing in all products. A sticker pointing to lock and unlocked does not seem to make any sense to me because if your not sure you just give the hose a little pull to find out, and it wont hurt the lock. The Mini which unlocks at the end of the hose does come with a sticker so you know which way to twist to unlock just like the Chameleon. The other issues you point out were taken care of back after the HS5000 launch in 2015 and all the changes made in 2016. Those first run valves that had issues with the doors and locks are warrantied by Hide A Hose even today after the 5 year warranty. Manufacturers always seem to have issues once launching a new product to the market even with all the testing. For example the Chameleon having doors cracking causing leaks, the HP DB units first launched needing upgrade kits, automobile recalls, etc. I always received the notices by email from Hide A Hose that are always sent out to the dealer network and the distributer networks on new products and changes. The end cap with metal ring was put out so long ago I do not remember what year it was. They had it on display at the VDTA show as well. Nobody ordered them or needed them as it became obvious it was not something the market needed. They still have boxes of them in their warehouse if needed. To me it makes more sense to put in a convenient retractable hose system more than one that is only convenient in one spot and not in others. Or if you are doing a retrofit system maybe leaving the upstairs system as is and making the main floor a retractable hose makes sense but the customer already has a tool kit with a hose to use upstairs so no need to take the retractable hose out and carry it upstairs. I was a HP Dealer for about 15 years. I know why they came out with the Chameleon, it was not to help you, its called profits. I did not switch to MD because of the Chameleon, it was before that came out. I wont discuss it on here as that would not be professional in my opinion. If you are installing the USA manufactured Hide A Hose system and have a question you can always reach out to their office and I find it very simple to reach the owner as well, Rod. FYI- I did not like the Spot quick clean and told Rod what I think would be better for quick clean, and came the Mini. Talk about listening to their dealers.

[@kevinboothe9991]

​@@Arizona-Vac-ProsHi Jason, greetings from N. Utah, how are you and your wife doing? Harv says to tell you hi. I'm going to throw a little shade on your comment about the door on the Chameleon cover cracking causing a loss of suction, that's not correct, the seal isn't on the door it seals internally, the inlet will seal even if the cover is completely removed.

[@Arizona-Vac-Pros]

@@kevinboothe9991 hey Kevin hope your well. Tell the boss we say hello. The cracking door on the Chameleon was an issue early on and was addressed by HP so I am told. I know Chris Slackford who was the design engineer on the Chameleon has been working for Hide a Hose for a while now and has helped them design the new HS6000 pro valve. I have a prototype and it’s nice. They have addressed concerns dealers have like spray foam walls. I’m sure it will be out soon. Has a cool new pull/push lock and seal and other changes. We are still doing lots of Hide A Hose installations in Arizona. Hope to see you guys in Las Vegas.

[@kevinboothe9991]

​@@Arizona-Vac-Proswe were back at H-P's dealer meeting last month and met up with Chris and he showed us the new inlet, it does look promising. I know the early Chameleon cover doors had an issue of cracking where the detent is that holds the door open but it didn't affect the seal in any way. I'll tell Jim hello for you. Glad you're doing well.

[@performancevacuum]

*Chameleon all the way!*