Hide glues - Understanding Reversibility

Simple explanation and example on how hide glue works and how to use its reversibility potential. You can also watch veneering columns to see how reversibility can be used as a asset to a process.

[@garrettcarrett8634]

This might be the nerdiest video I’ve ever seen, and I loved every second of it!

[@sinaTonewood]

the only really reversible glue, thanks for the video about hide glue,

[@sarahgeurtz7638]

Excellent video! Thank you for the information and for showing you actually taking apart the glue joints. Thank you also for the out takes at the end - makes me feel more normal!

[@3815utah]

Thank you! We are more like the outtakes than the video, actually......

[@user-qt5eh9wb7g]

Love that John Lennon is your copilot. Thanks for the vid! Very informative.

[@3815utah]

Cheers

[@iandavies6083]

Very well presented and to the point

[@sawyeredu]

Very good video. I liked the last cuts that show how difficult it can be to get started or to talk to the camera. In the first sections, however, it was seamless and well done. This was very educational and showing reversibility in the examples was a plus. I have some pockets in a panel I glued up and need to repair it. I think this will help me with the process. Thank you!

[@3815utah]

Thomas Sawyer Thank you for the comment and the feedback. Good luck on your project.

[@Finewoodworkingofsc]

Great information concerning hide glue and the ability to reverse the glue joint for furniture repairs. The end of the video is great. You look so natural in the video I would have never known you needed a retake...thanks for posting.

[@sachem54]

You can't do that with yellow gue

[@3815utah]

Fine Woodworking of South Carolina Thank you. We really have fun working and doing those video, it is why we decided to share those moment in a "making off" at the end

[@3815utah]

Ralph J Boumenot Nope

[@murraypotts924]

Fantastic demonstration most appreciated.

[@3815utah]

Thank you, glad you liked it!

[@WBogel-bo7ws]

Many thanks for your very educational and instructive video. I repair old furniture in Spain and, as you can guess, all of the joints, etc were done with hide glue. Again, thanks for sharing your expertise.

[@3815utah]

Thank you for watching and the kind comment.

[@michaelwalling8281]

Thank-you for this. Very concise. Would like to see more clear shots of the photo-bombing dog.

[@3815utah]

Hey, thank you. Well, this video is 7 years old, and there won't be anymore photo-bombing Brigitte (dog) or Gigi (cat)... RIP

[@ef2b]

I once was gluing up a project with through tenons that I pushed my luck on and made a hair too tight so that, when the glue was applied and the wood swelled, I cracked one element with a mortise. Since I was assembling with PVA glue, I felt that, if I disassembled, and made a new piece, I'd never really be able to reassemble the good joints because the PVA would have dried on the joint surfaces and, unlike hide glue, will not reactivate. So, I glued it all up and kept the item for my own use. At that point, I learned my lesson and started switching over to using hide glue. Now, if I hit a snag gluing up, there's a good chance I can have a second try. It's rare to need that, but often there is so much on the line at glue up, so much time invested, that I'm just more comfortable.

[@3815utah]

We do a lot of veneering, one of the treasure box II marquetry panels' sides slipped, thanks to old brown glue I was able to lift the panel and re-glue it at its proper place. Then on the first treasure box III, I miscalculated the placement of the 2 side marquetry panels. once again thanks to Old Brown Glue I was able to lift it and save the work.

[@HibikiKano]

I know its late, but thank you for the video. Just need to fix a leg from a 18th century furniture. This was great help.

[@3815utah]

Thank you!

[@TheAnetmusik]

Thank you for your video! 🙂

[@quintin636]

Thank you for the video, I think more modern woodworkers should learn about en use hide glues

[@3815utah]

Thank you so much for your kind comment. I personally do not see any reason not to use hide glues for indoor furniture. In this day and age where everything is future trash, building pieces with sustainability in mind is paramount. Thanks for watching.

[@aferetis2379]

Thank you very much!

[@ianbaldwin7702]

Thank you. Hopefully will be able to repair the arm of a £5 auction antique chair that was very badly repaired initially.

[@GuitarQuackery]

OK, it is easy to understand how to soak through a veneer. But I have bene trying to figure out how to soak through a thick ebony guitar bridge. The water simply won't soak through. So, the only thing I can come up with is to rout it off (ruin the original bridge) until there's basically a veneer thickness left, and then soak that leftover layer. Do you have any better tips and ideas? Thanks.

[@petromic1947]

Thanks for the video . I can use this technic to remove the plates of the violinCheers

[@3815utah]

Glad it helps

[@devinhoward4982]

great video good humor too

[@3815utah]

devin howard thank you!!!

[@my_flippin_journey]

♥

[@billmccaffrey1977]

Patrick, I have been using hide glues, including your old brown glue, to do new furniture. Opportunity has never come up where I would need to undue a joint, but I believe in being prepared. I'm not familiar with the old iron you are using and would like to know how to get one.

[@3815utah]

There are some veneer iron on the market. Patrick bought that one years ago. You can look up edge banding iron. Best! Patrice

[@toneconsultant]

What is wrong with me? I say that because I'm riveted to this guy and his work.

[@lou-nc4rc]

In that part where the old glue was softened and heated, and the poorly joined parts separated, it sounds like you are just adding water to the old glue remaining after the parts are separated. Is that correct? Or are you trying to remove the old glue to put on new hide glue? I am asking this because the parts on my piece are connected by dowels. There are holes where the dowels go, and will be hard to get old glue out of holes. Not even sure it was hide glue but betting it was since piece dates from at least 1940, maybe earlier.

[@ms22401gal]

Hi. Thank you for your video. It's very helpful. The outtakes are funny. I've made a walnut frame using grooves for a stained glass panel. The framed panel will be placed like a door on a LED strip lighted box I've also made and will be hung using a french cleat. I think reversibility would be best in case the panel needs repair. I hate the thought of using yellow glue and screws on this gorgeous frame since if there's a problem down the road I'd have to destroy my frame. Do you consider hide glue with splined miter joints a viable option for brand new pieces such as this application (ie - not a period piece or restoration such as you're doing here)? I friend at work said he would be very leery. Thoughts? Thank you.

[@3815utah]

Thank you! Hide glue is a glue, has been replaced by modern glue mostly for the ease of use, but it is strong enough and has advantage over synthetic gleus, so yes, it is a vailable option. If you value the reversibility in your project, go for it, it's the only type of furniture glue that provides it. If you want ease of use, Old Brown Glue is easier to use than Hot Hide Glue.

[@ms22401gal]

3815utah Ordered! 😃

[@johnbee9957]

Awesome! You just saved me a whole world of trouble with my own hide glue application I do have one question however. What happens if you only apply heat? Would the glue still soften at all?

[@3815utah]

If the glue is newly applied there is still some moisture in it and it could reliquify. If it is an older glue the water as migrated and evaporated the protein will be damaged and the glue wouldwill not reliquify and if you add more heat then it puffs like popcorn.

[@tmsaskg]

That heating iron is spitting sparks? Sounds like there are electric shocks on the watery surface. Keep safe! btw., nice presentation!

[@3815utah]

tmsaskg the sound is from the steaming, the gas bubbles trapped under the iron make that noise when escaping. Do not worry our iron is perfectly safe and functionning properly. Thank you for watching.

[@michaelgiordano3757]

What was that part about plate glue ?

[@tmoney9965]

I used a heat gun on a chair to get the joints apart, but it scorched the wood quickly! how does the iron differ?

[@3815utah]

It is the difference between roasting or slow cooking. To revers hide glue you need moisture and heat to reach the glue. A heat gun can work but if it is set to high the wood will burn before the heat reach the glue. Also a heat gun will have a tendancy to dry the wood preventing the moisture to reach the glue. The iron is set to a temperature tha will reactivate the glue 140° usually without burning the wood. Now for solid furniture it is sometime tricky to bring both heat and misture far into a joint especially if the glue is old and dry. Their is a possibility to use a mix of water alcohol 50/50, when you hear the glue crack it is an indication that you are breaking the bound and you may be able to pull the joint apart. Hope this helps.

[@gabrysgabriukas]

Thank you ! but what about other wood glues like titebond premium II? Is it possible to heat steam and disassembly glue joints?

[@3815utah]

Glue such as titebond are more like plastic. You can try to melt it but the heat needed will be (in our opinion, maybe some people may have had some success) detrimental to the wood. Protein glue are reversible by nature with a heat and moisture. The temperature of 140 F is not to hot for the wood. Basically protein glue are reversible by nature, the other one are made to be permanent, or at least until the plastic breaks down as they all do. They are 2 different approaches.

[@gabrysgabriukas]

@@3815utah Thank you for the reply. I also like natural hide glue but for exterior use I choose titebond. It is interesting what people used to use for exterior in old times.

[@3815utah]

@@gabrysgabriukas I think they were relying more on joinery and fastening than on adhesives. We do not recommend OBG or hide glue for outdoor use, but we have a home made plywood made with OBG outdoor in sun and moisture that is doing real good. But it is San Diego!!!

[@gabrysgabriukas]

@@3815utah In Europe. Esspecialy in my country Lithuania where we have snow and rains if plywood is left outside it will bend over more than few times 🙂

[@966uht]

Great video thanksOh yea I LOVE the white album photo of John Lennon

[@michaelsymmes4685]

hello , is there an exterior weatherproof reversible glue?

[@3815utah]

The only reversible gllue that I know of are water based. Technically you could use a protein glue for exterior joinery if the wood is not to porous and or if you finish the piece. Moisture can weaken the glue, but it is heat and moisture create reversibility. Nevertheless it is not "recommanded"

[@nakrul987]

wouldn't the water cause the wood to swell or warp and become damaged?

[@3815utah]

The wood can swell a bit but it will dry. Water stain happens mostly on wood when the water is left standing.

[@ranchgirl6240]

I have a question about hide glue. I have an old piece of furniture and veneer is coming loose. If I don't have a heating iron which you show in video could I use an old iron used for clothes to heat veneer up after wetting it with water as well as use a hair dryer since I don't have a heat gun either? If so what temperatures should I use so I don't harm veneer. Thanks. Veneer is in bad shape... buckling and splitting in several places. Would like to save and restore. Thanks again

[@3815utah]

Hello, we alwaiys try to save the existing veneer if it is original. you can use an old iron just not to hot, above 180F the protein burn and is destroyed. I beleieve an iron is easier to use than any hot gun as some veneer will get scorched by heat gun. The tepmperature of an iron is easier to keep at a more resonnable temperature, 140F is a pretty safe one.

[@ranchgirl6240]

@@3815utah Thank you for your assistance. I will try clothes iron in removing old veneer and see if I can save. Thanks again.

[@3815utah]

​@@ranchgirl6240 It is hard to guide without a picture, but you may not have to remove the veneer for a repair, most of the time rehydrating the glue and reclamping the veneer is sufficient.

[@joyknollenberg9048]

you don't try to keep the glue "at temperature" during the day while you're using it? You take the glue pot off of it's heat source

[@3815utah]

Joy Knollenberg depending on work flow the glue pot can be on all day or just part of the day. The hot plate is behind the bench, we put the glue pot on the bench to work and avoid spilling glue on the hot plate. Glue pot are double boiler and will keep the temperature for a while, enough for us to do the job at hand and put the pot back on the heat. Also when we use old brown glue we may use a small container with hot tap water if we need it sporadically during the day or plug a crockpot to keep it warm all day if we know we will need glue wall all day. On the video we made a set up with break to reheat the glue.

[@bonsaijoe1]

Are you in Utah and do you want an apprentice?

[@3815utah]

Hi. We are in San Dieog, and unfortunately we are not hiring at the moment.

[@sarahhoward9081]

John Lennon agrees and so do I. Is that the photo from the White Album?

[@bobvi5490]

can't watch this can't hear you

[@ohannes70]

Have you experimented with Titebond Hide Glue? is it exactly the same?

[@3815utah]

As we produce Old Brown Glue our answer can be consider biased... It is the same and not the same in a lot of ways. It is a modified Hide Glue. Itebond seems to have a lot of chemicals in it. We did not do any testing on their glue but if you google it, you may find meople having issue with reversibility. As we have not tested it we can not say for sure. Also, Old Brown Glue goes bad after a while, it is guaranteed for 18 months and will last longer especially in the fridge, but what that means is that it is more natural, and there will be less chemical interaction going in the way of the normal chemical attitude of hide glue. Let me know if that makes sense.

[@Lawiah0]

Hide Glue (Fish Glue) = Drys, Reversibility PVA Glue = Cures, no Reversibility

[@LindaStewart-oh6of]

Mona

[@attilathehun1107]

cant hear nothing. Sound is really bad.

[@3815utah]

attila Thehun sort about that. This video are quite old. Or latest have better sound.

[@alejandroarellano5694]

that is grenetine and when you warm it doesn´t pass 75 dregree celsius!!! jajajaj here the cheapest secret