Hifiman Sundara with a Topping A90! Do You Really Need a Dedicated Headphone Amp?

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[@bluesman608]

I saw the title of this review from you and thought, “this will be fun!” All of those little boxes vs beefy 70s and 80s electronics. The little boxes may be quite good, but from a value standpoint seem pricey for what they do. Glad to see vintage “won” and to learn from you that many old receivers use their power amps rather than op-amps to drive the headphone output. I did not know that. Another great segment from you, thanks. Also, your recent video on tips for buying vintage was a big win for me. You said to check Craigslist a lot and I found a sweet Harman Kardon 330c for a real bargain. So thank you for that, too. Please keep up the great work.

[@luisperez-fs2gz]

Currently using my Moon Audio P3 preamplifier which possesses an headphone amp. I find it to be very capable. I also have a Little Dot MK 2 with updated tubes and sounds amazing with both sennheiser and hifiman cans. Great having you back!

[@josedavila5695]

Thank you! I thought my Marantz 2225 could handle the Senn HD 600’s and this video confirms it. Back in the day we didn’t use separate headphones amps and it feels better to listen using a receiver.

[@thiscorrosion900]

If a med. to high power receiver (vintage or new) cannot handle powering the Sennheisers or Hifiman planars, something is drastically wrong.

[@kennethoransky4881]

Similar experience, I put together the Sundaras with the ifi zen can amp (talk about small). Much better than the Sennheiser HD6xx /Darkvoice combo I had been using.

[@mikecampbell5856]

The vintage equipment has tone controls, loudness and hi/low filters. You can customize your sound.

[@MODAC]

Yes, I didn’t get into that. Just wanted to compare them as evenly as I could.

[@christophernoto]

Good point! I was recently considering digging out my extension cable so I could try out my Drop 6XX 'phones with my fifty year old Sansui AU-555A integrated amp, which has been my mainstay for most of the years between 1972 and now. My listening position is about eight feet from the amp. Thanks for your encouragement.

[@MODAC]

Let me know how it works out. Thanks

[@EXPORT1867]

Thank you so much! This video is what i have been looking for. I bought a pair of beyerdynamic dt 770 pro 250 ohms head phones and all the videos on youtube say they work better with headphone amps. But all i use in my 3 rooms where I listen , play and record music are vintage receivers. My computer is hooked up to a1978 pioneer as well.

[@beepover]

I have the hd600 & hd650 and had the akg q701. Yes you 100% need an amp for headphones and even iem's.. Hopefully the dac/dap has a snergy with your headphones/iem's. Interested in listening to a sundara and would like to compare in price to sound against my Clairvoyance, Monarch and even Olina iems.

[@brunoespinosa5907]

purchased beyer dt 770 250 ohms cans. used on my marantz nr1200. disappionted. have a 1994 pioneer vsx 455 5.1 receiver and wow. incredible sound. so using this 30 dollar pawn shop old receiver as a headphone amp.

[@mmmbbq]

I thought I was going to "get into headphones" probably 5-6 years ago. I bought quite a few, then sold most. I settled on the Monoprice 1060's (I think it is) and stopped there. I still hardly ever use them. I just like speakers. Every now and then I almost buy a headphone amp, then I don't. I'm so bad with headphones that I can't even be bothered to test them out on my Nakamichi SR-4A since I've been using it the last couple months. I even bought an extension wire thinking that would do it, but I still haven't taken it out of the package even. Oh well, it's there when I feel the need, I guess. It's funny how some of these receivers can not only have a "free" hidden headphone amp in them, but a KILLER phono stage as well.

[@johnsoriano3812]

Congratulations! 10K is a great feat.

[@onofriopiccolino5166]

I would just use my Steelseries dac gen 2. It supposedly can push drivers up to 120 ohms. The Sundara’s are in the low 20 ohm range but they don’t get loud for some reason without a dac and amp. I heard they sound okay without a dac amp but with a dac amp and a EQ it takes them to another level

[@JoseGarcia-yu9nd]

Hi there. I just found out your review and smile since I tried the phone jack on a NAD 7225PE and the sound is good and fun. I tap my feets and even my close back V-Moda 100 sounded better than my entry level Magni 3. I have the Sundaras and was looking for a different amp. BTW Nakamichi and Lexus were very well regarded when I was younger ( 63 ). Thanks for the review!

[@thisisnev]

Planars don't have weigh so much, it's a deliberate design choice by today's boutique manufacturers to make their customers feel like they're getting more for the dollar. I've got a few vintage planar headphones - audio technica ATH-2, Bang & Olufsen U70 and Yamaha HP-50 (modded to HP-3 standard) - and none of them are particularly heavy. You hit the nail on the head, too, when you described how headphone sockets used to be wired. Manufacturers now cripple their amps' headphone outputs with cheap op-amps, creating a market for expensive dedicated headphone amps. As the old saying goes, it's spoiling the ship for a hap'orth of tar!

[@mike.thomas]

Congrats on 10k! It took me 10 years to reach 10k 😬

[@traaaaan]

Went from a k7xx to hd6xx to sundara. Amp is an evga nu audio sound card. Just ordered a new dedicated amp smsml sh6 and am excited to try it out and compare to the nu audio. I find your comparisons the between the 6xx and sundara very helpful. Thank you!

[@mkapp8724]

Hey man, its a year later now, how is it holding up and how good is it?

[@maxpower78-15]

Cheers bud!

[@sgtquo]

mr DavidCutter i like to recomend you to get a balanced hd 650 cable for your head phone , to go into your topping A90, and do another compairison with the receivers, i find my HD600 with the balanced 3rd party cables makes a big difference in the music. i was very impressed with the balance funtion output in my smsl head phone amp.

[@MODAC]

I am comparing apples to apples as the receivers don’t have balanced connections. As I said in the video, the A90 was loaned to me for evaluation. I understand that balanced cables offer sonic advantages. Thanks for your input.

[@thevindictive6145]

I got an onkyo surround amp just gathering dust downstairs. Don't wanna spend money for a standalone hp amp. Can use the money on a better headphone in the future. It's huge, but it was never used much, so now is the time.

[@johngranato2673]

I wish I knew the impedance of my receiver's headphone jack--an old Technics SA-GX100--this would help me decide which cans and/or amp to buy.

[@josemiguelgarciataveras9172]

Tengo el nakamichi Ta4a stasis. Suena súper!

[@willie9537]

Well brother, here's one more subscriber.

[@Ezees23]

Planars need some juice. You can buy banana plug to HP cable adapter to use your amps' speaker outputs for it's full power into the Sundaras - that will give you a super boost in both volume and SQ. Plus, most old skool integrateds use the amps' power to drive the HP plug directly instead of a crappy, weak opamp HP circuit of the newer integrateds........

[@abcdeqwerty1047]

So what is the answer do you really need an amplifier, is the difference worth it? I'm confused

[@myk1200s]

Still waiting on the magnapan review?..... 😃👍

[@Wasmosy]

You have to try any of the Dan Clark AEON line, I have the RT Closed and they sound amaizing and they are 500 bucks

[@petr-to3mv]

I’ve just got my Sundara and it sounds great with my MacBook. I’m not sure if external amp can make it better

[@MODAC]

I am certain it would sound better. But you will need to invest in a DAC as well. I suggest a Schiit Modi DAC and a Magni amp for $200. Outstanding value that you will appreciate.

[@thiscorrosion900]

Any good amp should make it sound better. I wouldn't rely on the stock soundcard or power in a typical Laptop or tablet, or MacBook, even. They tend to have not much power.

[@Tripokaridos22]

My Sundara need way more power compared to my 650 660s

[@masonb9788]

I’m using a Technics SVU76 integrated amp (late 80s) as my “headphone” amp and it does have some nice beefy sound but there is a “hiss” at low volumes. Is this just indicative of the equipment of that time is there something I can do about it? Also how can I tell if this amp uses a separate op-amp for the headphone jack?

[@springersound1844]

I compared headphone outs on my Pioneer sa8800 to it's little brother sa8500, and the 8500 nad noise (hiss) where the 8800 had none. It is curious. It's too bad you have to purchase and compare to get the best results - it should all be published somewhere in a book.

[@mickael486]

Wish I kept those old receivers. I just bought those Sundara's and tried to power them with my 2 year old Sony a/v receiver. ouch! can't listen to half a song without ear fatigue. and only at 37ohms.. I thought it'd be fine. Now I'm screwed to pay more money. Sennheiser's are 300ohm can't power those. How about the Sennheiser 560s? 150ohm but a higher sensitivity than the Sundara's. Maybe they will work better on my modern receiver

[@MODAC]

Higher ohms=easier to drive.

[@mickael486]

@@MODAC thanks, but I'm so confused now I just watched a video about getting a dac that can power and I quote "even 600 ohm headphones" I'm not a genius but I'm not stupid either. Why isn't this making sense.. How can both things be true?

[@mickael486]

@@MODAC google search says this: "High impedance headphones demand more power and are better suited to powerful amplifiers." What am I not understanding? Thanks.

[@spyderhead7160]

👍

[@igorfischer4368]

Do you think a Tempotec HD V can drive the sundara to good levels?

[@jonsays3762]

I’m always tempted to unsub, just so I can be the 10,000th sub. Never do, though. :) Recommend a decent affordable < $200 phono preamp, or two if you would please? I’m currently using a Marantz mr220, and I’m looking to downsize. Also, apos is Awesome with their customer service! They turned around a Dac that got quirky for me in no time flat. Buy from those folks, instead of Amazon, if real people matter to ya’! Good review, as usual. Here’s yer upthumb!

[@ijackiepie7901]

will sundara be also good without amp that i cant affort the amp........like 3mm phone and Motherboard do the job than most headphone espically bluetooth headphones? plzz tell me

[@MODAC]

I wouldn’t recommend it.

[@stinky2202]

So Schiit was a brand. I thought you cursed it.

[@NinaYo401]

The tubes are most likely some lousy sounding new school tube. Maybe you can find compatible vintage NOS

[@MODAC]

The Valhalla sounds very good. The tubes are TungSol.

[@NinaYo401]

@@MODAC those tung sol 12ax7 may be popular, but still new school. I’d roll the best NOS 12ax7 I could

[@ronmaass4430]

Yes you need HP amp.

[@dirkbusche3410]

You do compare worthy Headphones with what? A normal PC as soundsource? And you say, the vintages are not far away from the Ampdevices? Please do think about your Equipment. Maybe, thats the reason for your rather strange opinions. Sorry for that. But nevertheless: Your verdict about sundara is correct.

[@MODAC]

Strange opinions???

[@dirkbusche3410]

@@MODAC Sorry, once more!!!