Do you NEED 4.4mm BAL? Is it Better?

[@4rk]

I like the explanation that the connector and cable aren't important factors in the audio you hear compared to the headphones and amp. I have yet to see a video explainer on balanced cables that goes into what the original point of balancing the signal is. Dealing with signal interference along the cable. A source of interference much smaller than what you are likely to get from various qualities of amplification stages. AFAICS The purpose is to allow for very long runs of cables with very low voltages like microphones and instruments. For example an electric guitar on a stage or big studio setting running to a mixing board set far from the source. There it's possible that some electromagnetic transience could be affecting the cable at some portions of its run. With a shared ground being the 0 reference point for the signal, and if the EM is shifting it a bit up or down in voltage, and consequently doing the same to the left and right signals, then the listening side is going to read that as part of the signal. But if instead the cables are balanced with R+ R-, L+ and L-, then some EM that is adding or removing voltage to the wires can be canceled out by the fact that the R+ added to the R- should be 0, and maybe the sum got shifted by EM but this means the signal is still relative to this shifted value. EG 2 + -2 = 0 so the signal at this point is 2 - 0/2 = 2, vs 2.5 + -1.5 = 1 so the signal at this point is 2.5 - 1/2 = 2. But headphones are connected to amps by reasonably short wires, the amount of EM being proportional to the length - quite small, and the non-balanced solutions to any EM interference include: shielding, moving the setup, grounding the setup better, changing the length, running the signal hotter - it's already much hotter for driving headphones than a mic or guitar signal would be. So, yeah, you can go to a balanced amp and wire run, but at 10 meters or less with normal amplification, it's basically not making an impact compared to spending in the other areas or on cleaner amplification.

[@AndyAudioVault]

Thank you! and you have no idea how enlightening the way you describe it, the core underlying need for BAL cables, I think you explained it way better than anybody else, and for this I am pinning your post so that everyone can benefit from this. Thanks again

[@paulgal]

@@AndyAudioVaultso I ordered the new onix alpha based on your review . I currently have 3.5mm for my IEMs but ordered 4.4mm so I won’t need it ?

[@drvivekmallan]

@@paulgal 🤣🤣🤣

[@enmanuel1950]

​@@paulgal Not for IEMs (although there might be an exception that I'm not aware of). The nice thing about the balanced port on the Onix (and other devices) is that it delivers more power which allows you to run high impedance/low sensitivity headphones. Which is not relevant for most IEMs.

[@LifebyBrody]

@@enmanuel1950 The connector is thicker is my main reason for IEMS, also I run everything on 4.4mm so when I can plug my IEMS into my tubes with an impedance adapter into the same port as all my other headphones and IEMS. I just enjoy the uniformity I guess

[@coolpoete]

Man, this was such a great and simple explanation. I can't tell you how much forums I've read about this topic and gotten "lost in the sauce" with over-explanations. Thank you so much bro!!

[@AndyAudioVault]

Hey glad you find it useful. And thanks!

[@XeonX__ASMR__METAL-experiments]

You should do the same video but about HI and LOW gain. Or just a comment ❤

[@AndyAudioVault]

Thanks. It is a simpler subject so I will just reply here and Pin this comment. Hi and Lo gain on most DAC/Amps usually toggles high impedance dampening to achieve Low Gain and the High Gain is without any impedance dampening. But it differs from one implementation to another because some DAC/Amps actually regulate to power feed to achieve lower gain. Perhaps some folks with more insight into this can help to clarify as well?

[@Saitama07]

If the implementation is the impedance dampening one, what effect can we expect from the sound ? Will the Low gain sound warmer ?

[@AndyAudioVault]

@@Saitama07 It depends, some single DD does get "warmer" when subjected to higher impedance, but it is not always the case, it varies from one to another

[@iikatinggangsengii2471]

it is better than the recent ve10

[@STAYCBias]

​@@AndyAudioVault, does the final audio A5000 sound better with 4.4mm on iBasso DC-Elite?

[@taidee]

Wonderful explanation Andy, there's too many people who confuse others about the grandness of 4.4mm. Just to add, the part I'm sure you just forgot to mention is that, in a rare cases where there's electric ground noise interference , the common ground as available on Single ended can carry that noise to your earphones, while the advantage of a balanced system is that, the two grounds cause the noise to cancel out. This is usually the issue where there is a lot of other equipment and where very long cables are in use. This is very rare in desktop and in person use where we often use IEMs.

[@AndyAudioVault]

Thanks and you are right. There's a lot more info into this subject but I opted to keep it under 10 mins because normally audience will even still skip here and there on 10 mins videos, let alone a 30 mins video. This subject alone if I really want to go into details can span to two hours, I doubt anyone would want that hahaha. Cheers.

[@syedrehanfida]

@taidee thank you for sharing this information. I do have slight noise issue on my Chu 2, a 4.4 cable might rectify that... I have to try is someday.

[@d0nj03]

Nope, sorry, but this is just a misunderstanding usually posted by old-school audio engineers that have worked with live performance setups with very long cables. That's where the word "balanced" was originally correct to use, but in recent years it has been taken over and redefined for the headphone world, where it means something completely different and has nothing to do with rejecting electromagnetic noise induced into your audio cables by other nearby equipment (headphone cables are never long enough for this to happen at audio frequencies anyway). "Balanced for headphones" (the redefined concept) is about separating the return wires for Left and Right in order to reject as much *crosstalk* as possible, i.e. leakage of Left signal into the Right circuit and Right signal into the Left circuit through the common ground, which compresses the soundstage width and degrades imaging and detail. This problem has the greatest impact for the _lowest_ impedance headphones (or IEMs) because of how the voltage divider math comes out for the SE circuit when the drivers have such low impedance it comes too close to the wire impedance. That's when you need the BAL-out the most, if you want maximum stereo separation and imaging and detail performance. (If the power is too much for your low-impedance IEMs, just make it quieter from software, but anyway the best stereo performance benefit from the BAL-out is seen in low-impedance IEMs - those are the ones that have the most crosstalk when connected to SE. Hundred-ohm headphones don't care about BAL or SE for stereo performance, they always have excellent separation.)

[@syedrehanfida]

Thank you!@@d0nj03

[@etutub]

@@d0nj03 that's correct. in the case of the properly named balanced connection, two phase-opposite copies of the signal are carried, so that any interference, affecting both in the same way, will be canceled out. the ground is common.

[@emjayjose4909]

You are the Channel that explain it simpler, first time diving to this hobby and i can understand you very well. Holding the Device on hand made it 100% more comprehensive, thank you for this Excellent Content.

[@AndyAudioVault]

Awesome, thank you! Means a lot to me

[@kiki_indra]

Thank u uncle andy... It's like in the classroom... I'm the student... You the teacher... Your explanation is very very clear.. so glad to have teacher like you...

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure

[@BrianVallotton]

Just seeing this today Andy. The most understandable explanation of the difference between 3.5 and 4.4 I have ever heard. You are THE Man! God bless. Loving your work!

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure. Thanks for watching

[@asotomayor]

My recently acquired FC6 with only a 3.5mm SE output proved to me that 4.4mm is just nice to have.

[@FATfreq]

planning to buy a Fiio KA17 (although not sure I have to watch your Dongle madness style review) & haven't decided the iem yet but this 3.5 vs 4.4 mm jack video will help me to choose one . thanks again brother Andy...... love you bro ❤❤

[@AndyAudioVault]

Soon we will know once my KA17 arrives

[@syahfiqalarby6175]

Theres ka17 already?

[@chiizuu752]

I'm a beginner in this hobby. Was literally about to buy a 4.4mm cable before I stumbled upon your video because a decent amount of people from a certain FB group kept saying you'll benefit greatly in sound quality. Seems like a hassle for me as well to carry around my phone and the Dawn Pro on 4.4 which is why I'm going to stick with 3.5mm and a dongle when outside

[@AndyAudioVault]

Glad I could help!

[@rogerhuston8287]

4.4mm is my default. It is my main adapter for all my cords. I use adapters to covert to any termination I need.

[@Silent-1983]

Thank you! ❤ Perfect clarification.

[@AndyAudioVault]

You're so welcome!

[@GetID]

My curiosity was answered, thanks for explanation Andy

[@AndyAudioVault]

Hey no worries

[@gwine9087]

Well, after I bought the Moondrop Dawn Pro DAC, I bought the LETSHUOER x GIZAUDIO Galileo IEMs with the 4.4.

[@devdev7600]

Thank you for this video. Im just starting to explore being an audiophile and this video helps me understand more about 4.4mm and 3.5mm.

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure. Glad to help 😁

[@myquietreviews]

Dope video & I definitely appreciate you explaining it throughly & for also making it simple & straight to the point 👍🏿

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure

[@freefoyah2992]

Again I LEARN A LOT FROM YOU VIDEOS! THX ANDY!

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure, And thanks!

[@gaba665]

Love this kind of videos when you explain things in a way we all can understand. Thank you for your content! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@AndyAudioVault]

You are so welcome! Cheers

[@gaba665]

Btw Andy, what you recommend: FIIO KA3 or iBasso DC04 PRO? I want a good dongleDAC but not that expensive.

[@AndyAudioVault]

@@gaba665 Easy, DC04Pro

[@christiharris292]

Excellent video! Clear and concise explanation of an often asked rarely explained subject

[@AndyAudioVault]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks!

[@benjamincabacunganjr.2495]

My most analytically reviewer in KZbin blogger,,, keep it up,,,Bro🇵🇭☺️👏👏👏👏👏💥🎉🤞🔥❤️‍🔥💪😘💋👍✌️

[@SinjiKazama]

You explain things well, thank you for the information and video sir.

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure

[@3ossomok588]

Hey bro i really appreciate your work and personality ❤🙏🏼💯💪🏼

[@AndyAudioVault]

I appreciate that! 🤘

[@sohamprajapati7874]

Thanks for that knowledge, got to learn something new today. Thanks again

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure!

[@VirusForPrez]

I'll have to watch this a couple more times before it finally sinks in for good - 'Saved' thanks

[@AndyAudioVault]

No worries

[@rambunctious_content]

Thanks andy great vid as always helped me a lot

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure

[@iggy6841]

Nice, well explained vid Andy.👍🏽 Just recently got my Hiby FC6, loving it😊 Will you be reviewing the Simgot ea500LM any time soon?

[@AndyAudioVault]

Thanks. Yes EA500LM is on the way

[@iggy6841]

@@AndyAudioVault 😎

[@DarenLee]

Well explained. Thanks for the video Andy.

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure my man

[@ilyeshammadi7278]

Amazing video sir, I have learned so much.

[@AndyAudioVault]

Thank you!

[@ANOLE_VX]

Before, I always check the sensitivity and impedance of an IEM to determine if I should use it in balance or not. But there are some IEMs that despite having low impedance and high sensitivity, "demands" balanced/more power from sources, for example, Sennheiser IE200, sounds limp, thin and unengaging when plugged in an unbalanced source, but sounds "grand" punchy and very dynamic when switched to balanced source. It makes the IE200 "alive" . Same goes with Blessing 3, bass sounds limp, dry and thin, but sounds punchy and dynamic when switched to balanced source.

[@AndyAudioVault]

I means your IE200 and B3 are the type that scale well with power, just like Hidizs MS5 which has under 5 Ohm impedance yet sounding amazing when pumped with 3000 mW of power

[@sudipchatterjee]

Superb discussion! Thanks much! 🙏🙌

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure!

[@TheModeRed]

All this is very helpful and educational! Thank you!

[@AndyAudioVault]

You're very welcome!

[@Bovineicide]

Thank you for the plain language explanation. I just bought a SM4, which is ~7 ohm, so I guess anyone saying it's peaky or shouty is most likely running too much power through it?

[@AndyAudioVault]

No worries, my pleasure. Yes, at 7 Ohm and you subject it to huge amount of power, it can get shouty and running impedance adapter through it can help to dampen things a bit. I would say 45 Ohm would be the sweet spot

[@Bovineicide]

@@AndyAudioVault \m/

[@jimballantine6580]

Really helpful video. Nice work Andy!

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure!

[@arieljimenez6785]

Thanks for the explanation, really appreciate it.

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure

[@IE-Gems]

The Andromeda 2020 certainly works better with 3.5mm. Most dongles are just too loud and noisy on the balanced output side. The balanced output tends to have higher output impedance, which is not appreciated by the Andro. I have so much anxiety watching you handling the gear next to an open balcony though :)) Nice video, and great explanation!

[@AndyAudioVault]

Lol, when I watched back yes I was like, have I lost my mind, what if that signed Mojo 2 flew backwards 3 storey down? Not easy to get founder and designer signature you know hahaha

[@bamskie2024]

when i switched my cable for timeless to 4.4mm, everything changed. in my opinion, 4.4 cables bring next level experience, but for universality, 3.5 is the way to go. anyways, straight to the point explanation on ur analysis!

[@AndyAudioVault]

Thank you!

[@mTLpHfumfaomd]

@bamskie2024 do you mind sharing what do you mean by next level experience? I am interested to make the switch like you did. Thanks in advanced

[@bamskie2024]

​@@mTLpHfumfaomdmaybe for me the true potential of an iem was unleashed when i switched to 4.4 mm, but not all iems does this scenario as some iems are actually better sounding when plugged to a 3.5mm cable. some iems tend to kinda loose its natural characteristic when plugged to 4.4mm cable, some are not and listening experience became better. so for me its a matter of personal pref in the end

[@dolvinsujathkumar]

Thank you for helping ❤

[@AndyAudioVault]

You're welcome 😊

[@CoffeeXmusic]

Very well explained, concise! Thanks 🎉

[@AndyAudioVault]

You're welcome!

[@nailedit05]

Very informative video Andy 💖

[@AndyAudioVault]

🙏😁

[@luislorenzo7168]

Great explanation, very helpful, thanks

[@AndyAudioVault]

Glad it was helpful!

[@bri3fcas3]

Well said. Thanks for sharing.

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure!

[@jassihra8566]

What a fantastic explanation ! 100/100 In October 2024, what is your best USB to 3.5mm AUX Dongle ? The audio when I use bluetooth is no good on my vehicle. The Aux works great, however, I want some dongle which could boost the quality of the sound.

[@AndyAudioVault]

Thanks! for 3.5mm AUX feed, I would highly recommend the $5 Venture Electronics ODO. That thing is so damned cheap it will not hurt for you to try. And it offers the sort of quality which is illegally good

[@NestorPicado-b6c]

Damn, Andy, you are right. I have tried in a few DACs; the only difference I saw was power. As always, you are the best, keep rocking!

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure

[@Ragnar-roblok]

Awesome explanation, thanks!

[@AndyAudioVault]

No worries!

[@MrGarkin]

Very interested in your opinion on cables, PureSilver / Graphene coated / etc. Are those basically just kind of impedance modding?

[@AndyAudioVault]

No worries, once my review backlogs are cleared, I intend to do video on this subject

[@spreston282]

this video is awesome! there should be no more questions after this. class dismissed😄

[@AndyAudioVault]

Thanks!

[@galactus2k383]

I am learning a lot from u thanks!

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure!

[@syedrehanfida]

Thank you so much for this video!

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure

[@rogeliogamboa7644]

Sir, thank you for a very informative video - you explain complicated stuff in simple terms - easy to understand - audiophile Philippines **

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure

[@WasuFCA]

Thx krub Uncle Andy.

[@AndyAudioVault]

Any time!

[@noahlapuz3853]

Very informative and easy to understand!!!! Appreciate this asa much I wish more success to you

[@AndyAudioVault]

Thanks, you too!

[@michaltakac682]

Beautifully explained the difference and thank you very much for the help but I have a question for you. I'm planning to buy Sennheiser HD600 and i have the FiiO BTR15. In my country the only balance cable i can get is 100$ and i don't want to buy it but on the other hand for HD600 with 300ohms i think the balance output will be better. So i found an adapter from 3.5 to 4.4mm. Should I buy it and use the headphones like that or I will damage something with that?

[@AndyAudioVault]

Thanks. Whatever you do, DO NOT use an adapter from 3.5mm SE to 4.4mm BAL. You risk introducing a short circuit to the amps stage which were meant to work discretely/independently with Left/Right Grounds. I have done this and I have had my DAC/Amp heating up and I am pretty sure if I prolong it, the amps would eventually go busted. Do proper 4.4mm BAL cable or don't do it at all. Don't take unnecessary risks

[@michaltakac682]

@@AndyAudioVault Thank you so much and I appreciate your response. I will take your advise and I will rather buy a dedicated balance cable from Dekoni then. Btw, awesome video and keep it up :)

[@ravirajpawar7734]

Been using Megatron since it came out, wish they'd make a version smaller in size like regular dongles..

[@bagaswisnu8737]

That why i still using ibasso dc03pro haha, very nice dac and maybe i will take colorfly cda m1p

[@aeipee13]

4.4 changed my life because I needed I needed to hear more power. Great video, very informative.

[@AndyAudioVault]

You can still get obscene amount of power from 3.5mm devices, it's just that the current trend intentionally set a cap on newer devices to sell more of 4.4mm BAL ideas

[@nurkoleptik_art]

"Size does not determine the quality of performance. "

[@psvdnm_new]

Изначально я был убежден, что 4.4мм всегда лучше для наушников из-за мощности и более четкого разделения каналов, но по факту сталкиваюсь с тем, что на недорогих dac (dawn pro, colorfly m1p) по 3.5 звук ощутимо четче и более естественный (вокал по центру, нет звонких высоких) причем не только на DD, но и на Planar (хотя по ним все однозначно говорят о необходимости мощного источника 4.4. У меня обратный опыт с лучшим звучанием по 3.5 на M1P для Hifiman 400SE, KZ PR2 и Nicehck F1 PRO)

[@AndyAudioVault]

Thanks for sharing this

[@chaukumlong4436]

thank you so much!😊

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure

[@MAR3718]

Thanks Uncle Andy. This is what i was wondering about, 3 standards and you describe it like i basic man could understand. Grets from Poland.

[@AndyAudioVault]

Glad to help :D

[@angelocorral2108]

Very well explained video Uncle Andy! I just want to ask for recommendation, i am planning to get Hidizs Mp145 and Dc04 pro or Shanling UA4 combo. Since you have both dongles, what is more good for the MP145? And should I get the 4.4mm bal variant of MP145? Will use it for my phone or my Hiby R2 II. Thanks again for these kinds of videos!

[@AndyAudioVault]

Thanks. I personally prefer the more natural open sounding combo of MP145 with DC04Pro, with UA4 you get more energetic synergy, so you decide which one you like more

[@angelocorral2108]

Thanks for your input!

[@RudeWolfy]

The same pair of IEMs will draw the same amount of power from the dongle if they are driven to identical SPL. That's regardless whether SE or BAL outputs are used. True BAL will have more power into higher impedance loads because of twice the available voltage. The only downside of using BAL is power draw as both DAC stages will have to be used.

[@052RC]

You have it wrong and I'm not going to argue with you. You can have the same pair of iems can draw different amount. Balanced headphone amps are not balanced in the way you might think. Its a marketing term. Substitute the word balanced with bridged. That's really what they are doing. When you bridge 2 channels in a power amp, it doesn't make it a mono amp. When you bridge an amp, your speakers (headphones), show the amp half the resistance of an unbridged amp. So, if you have an 8ohm speaker, bridging the amp will turn it into a 4 ohm speaker. A 4 ohm speaker will draw more power than an 8 ohm speaker. So, when you bridge an amp, you get more power but make the speaker harder to drive. That's why they don't use the term bridged. They get away with calling these things balanced because in order to bridge the 4 channels in the amp to 2 channels, the signal has to be converted to balanced. You can't use a common ground when you bridge. There's no need to take my word for any of this. Everything I just said can be pulled out of a textbook. They use the word balanced to draw your attention away from the fact that they are bridging the amp.

[@RudeWolfy]

@@052RC okay, I'll bite. Let's say we would like to drive a 8 ohm speaker to 110dB SPL. Let's assume we'd need 10Wrms to do so from a simple ground referenced amp. How much more power would balanced drive require, in your opinion?

[@watashi1793]

What about channel crosstalk? Many DACs seem to improve the soundstage, the imaging and the sound separation when used in BAL compared to PO, for example the KA5 goes from ≥72dB in PO to ≥115dB in BAL, and the BTR15 from ≥78dB in PO to ≥114dB in BAL. Personally, I tend to prefer the output from the Balanced port for this reason. Love your videos, keep the good work! :)

[@AndyAudioVault]

I have no insight on crosstalk, is that something you can hear in real life? perhaps my ears are not as acute as some other folks. The thing is I don't care if they are BAL or SE or use paper clips to connect, if they sound good to my ears then I am happy, lol. I have heard some super amazing separation and layering as depth of soundstage even from 3.5mm SE, so it really does not matter to me which one. And thanks for the support!

[@watashi1793]

@@AndyAudioVault ​Yes, the difference is noticeable in my experience. If you switch from 3.5 to 4.4 (or 2.5) on the same DAC with the same IEM (it's easier if you use a cable with interchangeable jacks, like the TRN T2 Pro for example) the sound signature of the IEM stays the same, but the soundstage and the instruments separation seems to improve. It's not a dramatic change over the experience, like it would be changing the ear tips of the IEMs for example, and it also depends if the IEM "scale well" or not, but if you have a spare balanced cable and a DAC/Amp with a BAL port, I think it's better to prefer said port over the PO (unless, like you said, the impedance of the IEM is comically low).

[@randallhill7979]

Great video, thanks

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure!

[@xsenjhiro]

Thank you sir.

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure

[@ForeverBlackCat]

Thank you so much. I subscribed

[@AndyAudioVault]

😁

[@MrColdchillin81]

I would mention that the reason you’re top dongles and chord mojo use single ended is because their designs are single ended. In particular pulse array dac is a single ended design. Adding balanced to any of the top listed dongles and chord mojo could actually degrade the audio quality by introducing extra parts to the circuit. In short single ended designs benefit from single ended connections. Conversely a dac amp designed to be balanced will benefit from a balanced connection.

[@AndyAudioVault]

And that's the whole point, I have no preference either for 3.5mm or 4.4mm or 2.5mm or even if they use paper clips to connect. But it seems that all the best sounding units that I have tested so far are largely SE

[@MrColdchillin81]

@@AndyAudioVault that makes sense. The most popular Old school tube amps SET amps. Single Ended Triode. Better spatial cues - I think it’s due to cross talk which is often frowned upon in measurements. But then we use crossfeed dsp 🤷🏾‍♂️ lol

[@052RC]

Overall, I don't think you are necessarily wrong, but in the context of this discussion on headphone amps, almost everyone here is missing something. And its not your fault. Its deceptive marketing practices. If you look at the design of a "balanced" headphone amp, its not really balanced in the way that implied in sales literature. Balanced headphone amps are really bridged power amps. 4 channels are bridged to 2 channels. They don't use the word bridged because there are downsides to bridging an amp. Bridging an amp makes it see half the resistance of a non bridged amp. An 8 ohm speaker on an non bridged amp is 4 ohms on a bridged amp. Yes, you get more power when you bridge the amp, but cutting the resistance in half makes the speaker/headphone harder to drive. Sometimes the results are better, but not always. In many cases, bridging sounds worse. Manufacturers get away with calling these headphone amps bridged because in order to bridge a amp, the signal has to be balanced because you can't have a shared ground. Each channel needs to have its own. On the headphone and headphone cable side of things, nothing is balanced. You need a 4 conductor connector because each channel has its own +&-, just like the amp and speakers in your living room. The only thing that's balanced is the signal at the input, so you have 2 + and 2-, and 4 channels of amplification. Each of the 4 channels needs its own conductor, and that's why then balanced the signal. Its not a fully differential component like you're suggesting in your post. And you're correct. The manufacturers don't tell you they're bridging the amp, and that's where all the confusion comes from .

[@MrColdchillin81]

@@052RCyou’re largely referring to really budget amplifiers. Most amplifiers I’m running into are true balanced and measure completely different in terms of cross talk, dynamic range etc. in practice you can hear the cross talk on se unless it’s really high and a quality se source. But these Dac chips and soc amp designs are designed to be balanced for the most part. In those instances they should run balanced topology.

[@arviendomuhammad1213]

thankyou for the explanation🙌 i'd like to ask question, for Moondrop May do you prefer the 3.5 mm or 4.4 mm for the better sound quality? i'm new in IEM thingy and not really sure about "shouty" or "power" in term of sound🙏

[@AndyAudioVault]

I have only tested May with the DSP model, which means it does not even use 3.5mm or 4.4mm BAL. May I suspect will already be optimal with 3.5mm SE

[@arviendomuhammad1213]

@@AndyAudioVault thanku so much for the answer🙏

[@xcr8tive]

thanks bro for the explanation

[@AndyAudioVault]

Always welcome

[@Nordi1_0745]

Andy you are really great! This was in my mind these days! If I need to buy a 4.4mm balance cable for my HD600, cause I read that gives more power to the headphones. And as my next buy dongle maybe the (Colorfly m1p) will have balance output, to get the best for my Senns. Do you suggest me to have a 4.4mm balance cable? And if yes, can you suggest my any budget balance cable for my HD600? The only issue is my Tanchjim Zero which are only 3.5, but in this case I believe a 4.4mm option is not needed. As I will match them with my Go Link. Do you believe is a good match? Thanks for all!

[@AndyAudioVault]

For HD600 it is a MUST to run it on 4.4mm BAL if you are getting M1P, otherwise it will be a waste to run on 3.5mm and get only 50% of the true potential of M1P power. I don't know which cable to recommend because for my own HD600 I cut the original cable and solder in a 4.4mm BAL plug myself DIY style. But I am sure there's a lot of options available if you search for it. And yes, Tanchjim Zero will pair well with GO Link and you can stay 3.5mm SE, no worries

[@AlexSavchyn-dy8xw]

tripowin good for me

[@cloud8426971305]

Thank you. This is really helpful.

[@AndyAudioVault]

You're very welcome!

[@rapmeister5242]

Thanks Andy for a very clear explanation. At first I was a little uneasy that the FC6 doesn't have a balanced output. Thanks to you I know better now. Also, I know it is unfair, but how do you compare the FC6 against the Mojo 2? I'm curious about your thoughts. I also owned a mojo 2 before, I just didn't like that it has a battery on it that will be just a dead weight in the future.

[@AndyAudioVault]

Mojo 2 is special, slightly crispier imaging and resolution, but I still prefer F6 a bit more for the texture rendering and transient smoothness. And thanks!

[@wirriwarri]

thank you for the information

[@AndyAudioVault]

You're welcome

[@Devil1836]

Hello Andy, I like your reviews and comparisons❤️👌🏻✌🏻 great thanks for your videos. Please suggest any budget 4.4 mm to 3.5 mm reducer adapter for my Artti T10 4.4 mm cable.

[@AndyAudioVault]

Thanks!. I personally use my own DIY reducer adapter, but if someone ask for recommendation, then I will always recommend adapters from ddHiFi, you can be rest assured they make the best adapters

[@Devil1836]

@@AndyAudioVault Thank you very much Andy ❤️👌🏻✌🏻 for your reply. Please tell the specific model no.of ddhifi, it will be great and easy for me.

[@mrayars]

Thanks to you Andy I bought Aune Yuki and MP145 together! But only with 3.5 cable. Do you think MP145 sounds same good with 3.5 entry on Aune Yuki?

[@AndyAudioVault]

Yes, MP145 is one of the most scalable planar IEM in the market now, get that 100$ power from Yuki by running 4.4mm BAL, at 3.5mm side you only get 50% power, such a waste

[@mrayars]

@@AndyAudioVault thanks! is there a good inexpensive cable you can suggest for this? Are they all same for the sound?

[@AndyAudioVault]

@@mrayars Get this NICEHCK MixPP 6N OCC, the same one I use: shopee.com.my/NiceHCK-MixPP-6N-OCC-Copper-HiFi-Earphone-IEM-Cable-3.5-2.5-4.4mm-MMCX-2Pin-for-HOLA-Zero-KATO-Winter-Aria-LAN-A5000-Cadenza-i.48959355.21689539269

[@mrayars]

@@AndyAudioVault alright I ordered this one now. Thank you! Does it sound better then original MP145's own balanced cable?

[@AndyAudioVault]

@@mrayars Yes of course

[@2121pl1]

But because you I feel better now thank you I run a speaker system and I run my iams and my over the head headphones with it and I love it

[@rafifrizmawan8847]

Nice Mayhem t-shirt!!! 🤘🤘

[@AndyAudioVault]

🤘🤘

[@p1nt1t]

ipoh's metal militant supremacist reporting Hail Youu!!

[@razz_v95]

Great content as always.. thank you Andy.. I often use Simgot EW200 which is of 16 ohms i believe with my DC03 Pro. So you mean to say such low impedance iem sound better with 4.4 balanced? Or is it just fine with 3.5 SE? Thank you 😊

[@AndyAudioVault]

Huh? did I said "low impedance iem sound better with 4.4 balanced"? I never said that, watch again please and you would notice I mentioned some highly efficient and sensitive IEMs can get shouty when subjected to more power, so something like 4.4mm BAL can appear overkill for them, but this also depends on the IEM itself, as some highly sensitive IEMs do scale really well with power like B3 or Hidizs MS5. DC03Pro is a 3.5mm SE exclusive so you only have one jack which is 3.5mm SE, so no concerns there between 4.4mm BAL as it don't even exist on that dongle. The difference between 4.4mm BAL and 3.5mm SE pertains to DAC/Amps that offer BOTH at the same time

[@razz_v95]

@@AndyAudioVault oh okk.. will watch it again.. just understanding these things slowly.. sorry my bad.. Thanks for the quick response Andy..

[@choydeliverer7162]

Very informative video and the one that introduced me about the different jack types. I have a questiony andy, I'm purchasing an IEM with a 4.4mm balanced cable. I owned a dongle to pair with it but I also want to use it directly to my phone with 3.5mm port. Is it okay to use a 4.4 to 3.5mm adapter instead of buying another cable dedicated to 3.5mm. Is there any difference/quality loss when using an adapter.

[@AndyAudioVault]

Thanks. Go ahead buy the 4.4mm BAL cable. And then get yourself a good 4.4mm to 3.5mm reducer adapter, I use them all the time since 90% of my cables are 4.4mm terminated, no issues with quality drop for as long as they are made properly

[@choydeliverer7162]

Nice!! Thanks Andy

[@theonlyegg]

There are 3 major stumbling blocks for me with the Chord Mojo series. 1) no 4.4, I have absolutely zero use for a redundant 3.5. 2) Micro-USB to charge. 'Nuff said, it's 2024 and Micro-USB needs to be banished forever. 3) Price. Is it REALLY worth it?

[@precsmo]

TQ for explaining

[@AndyAudioVault]

My pleasure

[@PaulTerry64]

Well…. Technically speaking differential is not having separates grounds… One signal goes up and the other goes down. In fact if you short circuit the two “-“, like some adapters do (don”t use them), you break the output stage of the amp. Never use a 3.5mm hp/iem with the differential output of a dac/amp. Differential is much more immune to noise: as the noise is a sort of a voltage difference applied to both + and -, the differential voltage remains the same (+1/-1 is the same as +1.05/-0.95 this second with an applied +50mV noise, voltage difference is always 2V). Cables are twisted to avoid the noise spreading unevenly across the two signals. In principle differential should also be a little more precise being a little faster, I mean edges are smoothed by the load, so to reach 2V in differential should take less time (one signal goes +1 and the other -1) than in single ended. Of course as you said it is the quality of the circuit that really makes the difference, so it is possible a good SE is better than differential. But in principle, a good differential is better than a good SE. Thank you for all your videos!

[@AndyAudioVault]

Cheers 🍻

[@DJHaworth]

Got it!

[@2121pl1]

Very helpful video thank you

[@ahmedburamis655]

Thanks for great review, i need your advice i have fiio btr7 dac but unfortunatly there is destortion in the audio when i use wire will 😱 i changed 3 type of wires and in 3.5 port with 2 iem but the problem 🤔 still there however no problem in Bluetooth connection

[@AndyAudioVault]

Thanks. It seems you may have a unit that has specific issues when connected via USB and that's odd, if I am you I would reach out to FiiO support already

[@ahmedburamis655]

@@AndyAudioVault thanks alot i will try to reach them

[@zxcjt]

Hey Andy! I'm planning to purchase the VE Odo 4.4 DAC for the Tangzu Yu Zuan Ji. Is it a good choice?

[@AndyAudioVault]

Yes, that's a very good choice for ultra compact dongle for your Tangzu

[@motivationmore7025]

stupid question: got Blessing 3 from Moondrop, Ibasso dc03pro, works well. Today I got Hiby R3 gen2. Should I use the IBasso with this DAP or would that make confusion, as the Hiby already has a DAC inside?

[@AndyAudioVault]

When you attach an external DAC to a DAP, the external DAC will always take over the audio processing work and the internal DAC of the R3 will be bypassed

[@motivationmore7025]

@@AndyAudioVault in that case, would do that, or rather change EQ settings?

[@AndyAudioVault]

@@motivationmore7025 Nothing to do with EQ. If you use R3 directly, then you are listening to R3 DAC, which has its own sound characteristics, when you attach DC03Pro, and plug your IEMs to DC03Pro, then you are listening to DC03Pro sound characteristics - as simple as that

[@motivationmore7025]

@@AndyAudioVault I mean, in that specific scenario, would you use the ibasso to improve the sound?

[@AndyAudioVault]

@@motivationmore7025 I don't know, I never tried R3. Use whichever one that sounds good to your ears, that's the only thing that matters

[@Thee.Mighty]

balaced is done for noise reduction and power, not quality

[@dylandavidson5406]

Hey, just picked up Tanchajim Origin Impedance 16 sensitivity 126db I find the dynamics improve with 4.4 However I cannot bring it past about 65 on my Fiio K11 (gets too loud) Honestly not much more “hiss” than the 3.5 termination. From your explanation if I’m not mistaken, I shouldn’t use 4.4. but I quite like the change in sound. (High notes are higher, bass is more sub) I cannot find any solid clear info about this online. Would love an explanation to this.

[@AndyAudioVault]

A 45 Ohm impedance adapter may work for you if you need to crank volume that high at over 60 for a low impedance IEMs. I drive magnetic planars on KA11 and didn't even need to reach 50/100. The better solution is to train the ears to savor low dB and you will get more details and nuances that way

[@tohart5455]

Jadi yang ngaruh tuningan DAC + amp , colokan apapun sama saja kualitasnya

[@AndyAudioVault]

Sorry English please, I am a Malaysian but I don't understand Indonesia Malay - I might interpret your word wrongly

[@tohart5455]

So chip+amp tuning has a big influence on output quality, not because of the influence of the plug jack

[@AndyAudioVault]

@@tohart5455 Yes that is correct, as noted the plug size does not determine the quality, it is the source DAC/Amp tuning aspect that determines how good/bad they are. As you can see, Chord Mojo 1 & 2 proved that for 7 years that they are still the best of the best despite being challenged by tons of 4.4mm BAL competitiors

[@just2share]

i got colorfly cda m1p and i'm very happy with it. i have balanced headphones with 3.5mm, and wondering if they would sound even better on 4.4mm BAL... when you do your reviews of DACs can you mention the difference between 3.5mm and 4.4mm for that particular DAC?

[@AndyAudioVault]

If your headphone is terminated with 3.5mm SE then it is not designed to work in BAL mode, because the L- and R- are permanently soldered together. To change to true BAL you need to swap in for a proper 4.4mm BAL which will have L- and R- on separate soldered connection to the plug. If your headphone is the type that appreciate more power (scalable) then absolutely necessary to run 4.4mm BAL on the CDA-M1P because as mentioned in this video, you get 100%, the 3.5mm SE you get 50%. And yes I mention (though not exhaustively) in my reviews how the power differences work between 3.5 and 4.4

[@yogiwp_]

Wouldn't balanced circuitry benefit from improved channel separation, which affects imaging? Or the improvement is simply not audible? (SE vs BAL within the same DAC/amp).

[@AndyAudioVault]

It depends, with so many DAC/Amps offering BOTH 4.4mm BAL and 3.5mm SE, you would be surprised to hear that some 3.5mm SE actually sounded cleaner for highly sensitive IEMs and sounded better than it was when driven on 4.4. So it can vary a lot from one make to another, hard to nail down one answer for this

[@TheUn4givN]

So basically, if I only use UE Live Pro, which has a 10 Ohm impedance, and I have a balanced cable for it, that means I can sell it because I won't be able to notice any difference from now (when I have Dragonfly Cobalt which has only 3.5 single ended) and a dongle with 4.4 balanced that I will get in the future?

[@AndyAudioVault]

Yes, because Cobalt is 3.5mm SE and using BAL cable on it will not yield any difference

[@TheUn4givN]

@donglemadness what I meant was if it will make a difference if I use UE Live + Cobalt in SE against, for example, UE live + DC-Elite in BAL considering that I don't use any 75/150/300Ohm impedance adapter

[@gilbertcruz5424]

Please recommend upgrade cable and dac for Truthear Zero Red 😊

[@AndyAudioVault]

Try looking for SPC 16 core from NICEHCK

[@dusantomic9983]

To make headphones/earphones balanced, can you just use the balanced cable or do they need to be rewired inside as well?

[@AndyAudioVault]

At the very least you can reterminate with 4.4mm provided that there's 4 wires there. But if there's already a shared ground joined at the Y split, then need to replace the entire cable

[@NetvoTV]

Some said 4.4 give more soundstage, if I get Sony MDR-Z1R, would I get the highest potential it can get if I get a dongle DAC or a Sony NW-ZX707 DAP or the Apple USB C to 3.5mm jack run off and iPhone is enough?

[@AndyAudioVault]

On a system that has both 3.5mm SE and 4.4mm BAL and they run discrete dual ground, yes the 4.4mm BAL side will be wider sounding. To maximize on MDR-Z1R, you will be better off with proper dongle at least, Apple USB is not gonna cut it

[@ericchau1058]

would you take the chord mojo 2 over all the dongle dacs you've tried; price wise it's not fair but size wise if i had to carry something also where would the mojo 2 fit in your analog scale

[@AndyAudioVault]

I like Mojo2 a lot, but I always prefer the sound and performance of HIBY FC6, CEntrance DACport HD and Aune Yuki

[@stillife_]

So can we say that the Letshuoer S12 (standard) is an outlier? Even though it is a planar, it has high sensitivity and low impedance. The HiBy FC3 II (display version) should be able to handle the S12 well at 3.5mm then, right?

[@AndyAudioVault]

That's correct. But remember this, planars by nature loves power and despite being efficient, they always scale great with higher output

[@stillife_]

Got it! Changing the subject, I must say that I really appreciate your work! I believe that sharing knowledge is one of the most beautiful ways to leave our signature on the world. Thank you!

[@stillife_]

Hey Andy, another question has arisen! What would be the advantage if a 3.5mm output (245mW@16ohms) was a 4.4mm BAL with the same stats? I'm talking about FiiO KA11 + Shuoer S12 OG.

[@chunchunmaru5069]

Where's your Ovidius B1 review? I can't find it, I'm curious about dongle who can get 5 stars "only" using 3.5mm

[@AndyAudioVault]

It was reviewed over 3 years ago in my old site. The "only" 3.5mm dongle is still my favourite and I keep dearly over tons of others. 3.5mm dongles happen to be the champions of #donglemadness including DACport HD, Questyle M12i, Apogee Groove and the one and only HIBY FC6

[@chunchunmaru5069]

@donglemadness what site? Is it outside youtube? Can I watch it?

[@cheekeongng4608]

Hi. I am new to iem and using ak hb1 Dac with simgot em6l.. it comes with 3.5mm cable and I am thinking of changing to 4.4mm to up the game for better power. Do you recommend it or its better for me to stick to 3.5mm for now ?

[@AndyAudioVault]

Your AK HB1 has 4.4mm BAL and yes you will get better performance from the 4.4mm side of it. So changing to 4.4mm cable makes perfect sense here

[@raynerstuelgalid]

I wonder if manufacturers will soon offer "monobloc" DAC-AMP soon.

[@AndyAudioVault]

If there's a demand and appeal, why not?