High Elo vs. Low Elo DETAILS | Broken by Concept Episode 177 | League of Legends Podcast

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00:00 - 14:45 // Going Over High and Low Elo Examples Of ‘The Details’
14:45 - 17:30 // Curiosity The Buzzword
17:30 - 25:25 // How Significant Is The Score Line? + What Variables Matter?
25:25 - 30:20 // The KDA Player (Client Archetype)
30:20 - 33:10 // Female Player Base Hurt By Playing Support
33:10 - 41:10 // League Reddit - Current System Feels Like A Chore
41:10 - 49:18 // Curtis’ Clip Corner - LOW Value Death + Assessing Map State
49:18 - 01:01:50 // Nathan’s Mailbag - Ben - Mistakes And New Builds
01:01:50 - 01:14:18 // Nathan’s Mailbag - Matt - 2023 Success Story And A Tragedy
01:14:18 - 01:20:26 // Nathan’s Mailbag - Silhouette - Reality Check Regarding Champ Mastery
league podcast , mid coach , jungle coach , solo queue podcast , how to climb, season 13 climb , how to climb in season 13 , how do I improve at league , coach curtis , nathan mott
#BrokenByConcept #Podcast #LeagueOfLegends

[@zeldafan9656]

As a female player who learned the game on support, I couldn't agree more with Curtis at the 30ish min mark. No cancellation required, haha. I've had to rid myself of soooo many narratives that I believe were born from me learning the game on support. However, I think I was pretty lucky in some ways- I learned the game playing with friends who were relatively high-ranked for the time (plat/dia in season 4-5ish) so I got absolutely shitstomped every game, but as a result of that tough experience, I believe that it did help me learn very fast as well as avoid some of the harsher penalties of learning the game through support, like overly defensive play. If anything, I'm way too aggressive playing mages mid, likely due to my aggressive playstyle in the support role as supports like Leona, Lux, and Soraka. I've overindexed on the 1v1 micro/skillshot accuracy and I really need to improve my jungle tracking. It's been a really long journey to unravel all of the narratives keeping me from climbing (a lot of them keeping me from playing the game in general), but I'm really really looking forward to next season. I've finally (finally!!) settled into a mid champ pool that makes me happy and keeps me curious. BBC podcast and Curtis's content in general have been integral to my journey, and I couldn't be more thankful. Keep up the good work gentlemen 👍

[@Jon14722]

Nice

[@taylorchristian2051]

Diamond support Seraphine main here. I was able to climb from platinum to diamond by changing my play style and runes. Playing aggressive as a support didn’t work for me, but playing as a healing support building items that slow enemies or increase my shielding/healing has made such a huge difference for me. Maybe this could work for you too. Good luck on your climb!

[@rex1800]

@@taylorchristian2051a lot of hyper mobile champs (fiora akali katarina riven) aren’t actually countered by hard cc. It’s soft cc. so that’s a smart decision

[@saint_lol]

Before I even get into this episode, I wanna thank Coach Curtis, Nathan, Charlie, and my personal coach Coach Cupcake! I just passed my finals for my degree and the process and mindset you all preach allowed me to be structured and made learning/studying way easier! (I also should add this season I promoted to emerald after being hardstuck plat for 3 years haha) I feel like my quality of life both in game and out of game would not be this great without the guidance of you all. So for that, Thank you!

[@Elixirs_mp4]

hell yeah support gap

[@monkey3101]

Emerald is the equivalent to plat a few yrs ago u know that?

[@jackjonesy]

​@@monkey3101can I invite you to my up and coming party? You give off the vibe that you would be great at parties

[@saint_lol]

@@monkey3101 cool! I still went up in rank doesn't take away from the achievement lmao

[@monkey3101]

U DIDNT GO UP A RANK UR THE SAME RANK@@saint_lolnobody fcking took a way freom any achievement u werej ust told fax

[@louiselemmon5029]

I'm a female player that actually wanted to be a mid main, but got shoehorned into the support role by my friends (all male). I was the only one that didn't mind playing support and there was a class act of an individual in the group who would never leave mid. Even if you called it first he'd still go mid and you'd have 2 people in mid lane. I ended up sticking with support because I had spent so much time getting good at it already and the role improved a lot from S2 and was fun to me. I ended up making a new friend with an aggro adc that was better than me who helped me improve a lot. And from there it was a lot of self-study and getting coaching. I quit league for a few years, but came back in 2020 and this season i finally reached diamond as a Rakan main. Mid is my secondary role as I still like it a lot :)

[@spaceanimai5046]

"Even if you called it first he'd still go mid and you'd have 2 people in mid lane." what the fuck lol

[@king_kunta_0]

Im sorry for you. I hope you can find better friends. If ever though, I would suggest just not playing with them and playing mid on your own. Fuck em

[@louiselemmon5029]

@king_kunta_0 thanks, it's been years since I've played with all of them. Got some new friends and play on my own now too

[@PreceptorLive]

your amazing

[@WillToWinvlog]

nice e-girl story! very inspiring

[@JackieM00se]

Whoever started the trend of giving Curtis and Nathan weird nicknames in each mailbag deserve an award

[@inLogiex]

Details is a thing that challenger players miss when they do smurf commentary. Yes, they talk about jungle tracking, about reset, wavestate, etc. And then casually sidestep every ability enemy throws at them.

[@Kamishi845]

One thing I really disliked about Skill-Capped is how they keep saying "you don't need mechanics for this" and "everything up to master's is the same level of bad play", while ignoring that playing League requires A LOT of mechanics. They completely ignore the mechanical difference even just between bronze and gold, and as someone who's been on the cusp of platinum for several seasons, the thing I notice the most between someone being plat and being gold is the mechanics. Like, I know I would instantly get plat if I had better mechanics than I do, because I'm very mechanically bad, probably a lot worse than many around my own tier, which I compensate for by trying to make better and safer plays that don't overly rely on my mechanics. Decision-making as a whole is possibly better too, but the biggest skill difference between gold and platinum is almost always mechanics which leads to better lane control. After that, platinum players are more confident in their plays than below, which doesn't always mean they have champion mastery or matchup knowledge, but they trust in their ability to execute their plays better. Overlooking these differences is so offensive because it completely ignores the challenges a person in a particular bracket struggles with relative to those in higher brackets.

[@Yee-Haw_Bird]

@@Kamishi845”just dodge the Camille E, just dodge the Illaoi E,”

[@zane_guitar]

I wouldn't say it's always mechanics. Like Nathan and Curtis have talked about many times: Every player has areas where they're stronger and areas where they're weaker. One person might break past a plateau through their mechanics, another through macro, another through being tilt-proof, etc. It's just some combination of improving enough of those different skills (or over-indexing into one of those skills) that gets you past a plateau.

[@brotendo]

@@Kamishi845Because it's easier to sell courses if you give the impression that "anyone can do it" because it's easier to teach macro, etc. than it is to give someone the physical skills to master mechanics.

[@LaCarteRouge]

agreed! especially with harder champions like zed, moving your mouse a few pixels can mean the difference between one shotting the enemy, or doing 0 damage.

[@samtudor8813]

I love the dichotomy struck in the first segment around the challenger and bronze examples. I feel like most people intrinsically associate challenger with flashy execution, but in reality it’s much more about the accumulation of feeling and understanding applicable to countless situations. Where in bronze players who tend to be quicker in blaming external factors will be overloaded by a team fight and fail to combo properly.

[@Zolti14]

A strict and pure elo system instead of a visual rank/hidden mmr system would not ruin competitive integrity. Chess works on a pure elo system just fine.

[@nomal1872]

But chess isn’t a team game with random teammates. MMR can more accurately gauge and distinguish skill levels

[@Zolti14]

​@nomal1872 mmr is the elo system dumbass. Riot intentionally hides mmr as they believe it is best for engagement. What they show as visible rank lags behind the actual mmr elo that is used for matchmaking. Visible rank is not used for matchmaking in any context.

[@CoachCupcake]

I agree you won't learn and improve as much by playing enchanters, with Yuumi being the extreme. It's the inherent reactivity of those champs (which can be found to an extent in other roles too) that discourages pushing limits. I think it's disingenuous to lump the entire role in there. Support is complex and has a LOT to give!

[@saint_lol]

TALK TO EM THATS MY COACH 🗣🗣 they dont know about the ali guide

[@Freakattaker]

I used to main support and I'm inclined to agree with the BBC that STARTING your league journey on support is a bad idea. I may have gotten to D4 in older seasons playing Soraka and dominating lane, but ultimately when you're new to the game the role fosters a sense of comfort in knowing you can win games by playing reactive enchanters and throwing abilities onto your carries in mid-late game. We sometimes forget that the lower the elo is, the longer games naturally last. Which tends to give the best results to scaling enchanters pressing their buttons onto their big carries. It doesn't push you to push your limits like other roles where you need to know how to REALLY fight in mid-late and feeling the advantage of being ahead in lane early.

[@syrollesse]

I'm a female who plays mid and adc. I only really play support with a friend but I learned the game on adc and im so glad that I did. I learned so much about spacing, kiting and positioning etc. Even if im playing Soraka I'm still dominating lane, auto attacking Qing, spacing. I understand wave management and what my adc wants to do. If I started off with support I genuinely wouldn't have so many of these skills nailed down. I'm currently learning Azir and Kalista. Mechanically speaking I'm getting really good and I like to push my limits and go hard mode haha

[@sukiyu.g]

I was introduced to league when I was around 12 by a childhood friend of mine (male), he didn't force me into a sup role, I had fun playing jg, my two mains were jax and warwick. Several years later I saved up to get a shitty old pc to start playing again, my school mates (all male) all forced me to play sup. I thought they were pretty good players so I didn't mind at first, but they were just silver/gold players, plat at best and they wouldn't really teach me how to play. I started playing by myself / watched videos and mained different roles and champs I thought I would never play. Im plat now and its always fun to learn something new.

[@Vortex_Tornado]

Another small detail in the Quantum vex example on the opponent side is the Graves' pathing. It looks like he hugs the wall when turning the corner, so he doesn't appear until he's already very close. As a low elo jungler, staying close to walls is a tip I've been following to improve my ganks and invades but many people at my rank would not consider that as something important to do.

[@Freakattaker]

Love your comment because it's something that's just taken for granted by higher elo players; understandably so! It's like the given default that of course junglers will move that way because if they don't then they'd be very quickly weeded down to a lower elo.

[@robertmenter4804]

Mailbag comment : hey guys. I had a realization tonight and I’d love to share it with the two coaches who helped me change and improve so much this past year. I realized tonight that peaking emerald 2 this season, as a 36year old boomer with terrible vision in my right eye, subpar settings for clicking and map movement, and off and on tilt issues is quite the accomplishment. I’ve realized that I have always had the stage 4 problem of not feeling good enough in everything I do. When I make mistakes or lose games that narrative dominates my emotions and I feel miserable and take it out on my teammates sometimes. Tonight I hopped onto a low level alternate account to get into the details of improving my micro and had a teammate just flaming everyone … and well I’m just done caring. It’s just a game. I dont have to be or want to be so attached to my rank or performance. Moving forward, I’m just going to play the champs I love showcasing my strengths on and try to win games hopefully maintaining a plat-emerald skill level. I acknowledge I’m shit at the game compared to some and decent compared to others. I refuse to let my experience in this game impact my days anymore when I fall short of a goal or get into it with a teammate. Life is too short and I’m happy knowing I peaked emerald in one of the hardest pvp games I’ve ever played. I love your content. You guys helped me become a better person. This podcast is such a gem.

[@finalflash1713]

Something we'd say in the military was "slow is smooth and smooth is fast"

[@MariaGuerriere]

As a female player that was shoved into the support role by my ex, I totally agree. What you said is definitely not cancel worthy because it’s honestly true!!! I’m now a jungle main and have a killer-Peach style like was mentioned before, but I remember it taking a LOT of work to actually get comfortable playing aggressively. I started playing yuumi and nami, so I was obviously terrified of being alone, scared of aggression in fear of messing up and getting flamed, and honestly I felt crazy handicapped in my ability to actually do anything especially in games with my ex and his friends! (I didn’t wanna look bad or be the shitty inting female player) NOW, I am an Evelynn main with over 800k mastery points of pure enjoyment from making people suffer 😂 I also play Lillia, Kindred, Maokai, Nidalee, Briar, and Elise! I’ve only played the game for a few years and I soloqed to plat last season! (I know that might not be that crazy of an achievement to most, but I was super proud of myself) I’ve always tried to encourage my female friends that feel stuck in support to wander out of their comfort zone and just TRY other champs/roles! Sometimes it takes a push for people like that to feel like they can take up space as a carry! League is a game that I feel like unfortunately has not always been the most accepting of women in the community, and we need to realize that the game is for everyone! I’ve had to deal with so many of the stereotypes. My name is JustPeachyyy, and I think sometimes people realize through my name that I’m a woman.. in champ select I’ve gotten “oh god we have a female jungle, ff15” and it pissed me off. I proceeded to carry that game and not gank him out of spite. He inted and I carried. Hilarious. 😂

[@thecamtain]

In reference to the mailbag question, I feel like you could take the single player boss fight analogy a step further. I feel like league is such an intensive game that practically the whole match is a boss fight, keeping track of positioning of the enemy and yourself, keeping track of whatever mechanics have been used, quickly jumping on openings to attack or take an objective, trying to not waste time. And if you get distracted and start to fall out of focus in any way, then you will start to make mistakes. and I know its one of my biggest issues where my endurance with the game has been really bad, where I tend to lose focus and tend to fall into a lazy state of "just play meta and turn my brain off" one of the worst things for myself was when I was playing meta and it worked for me and I almost went from bronze to gold. But it was all fake and eventually when the meta changed I started to fall back down again. I almost feel like it would be accurate to compare league to a long endurance boss fight and after watching more of BBC's content I feel like I should probably be treating it like that.

[@jbennett8660]

Thanks so much for another wonderful discussion and your insights boys. Stay cool this summer.

[@skad00sh8]

Let's get into the details.

[@LuxiBelle]

30:20 there was a study that broke down the aspects of why men and women play different games. Men prefered more destruction and competitive aspects while women prefered socializing and cosmetics. This is why MMOs have a higher percentage of the playerbase that is female than Mobas. However the one role that has the most aspects women like is support, so most women I know play support or botlane. Also, if you are playing with a friend you will most likely play in the duo lane than others. I think the problem is getting a woman to try playing mid or top is like trying to get them to play a fighting game. There isn't lasting interest in playing top where you are getting destroyed by Darius alone all the time when you just want to play as a 5.

[@sarahburke9254]

As a woman, most other women I know don't like social games and prefer single player experiences because of toxic voice chat etc. I started playing league midlane, but basically got shoehorned into support because I wasn't 'good enough' to play mid, and reading these comments by other women confirms they have similar experiences, it's less that we don't want to play other roles, more like men instantly blame us when we do poorly in these roles

[@MariaGuerriere]

You would be surprised with how many women actually DO like fighting games, but feel as though they are shoved into support roles due to expectations from other players or just fear of taking up space. Women can be competitive and aggressive too! I’m a female jungle main and I love my role, but it took a while to feel good enough to even attempt playing other roles due to not wanting to prove the stereotype of females being bad/passive/incompetent junglers/players overall. That anxiety of proving the stereotype right is SUCH a real thing.

[@EvgeniiNeumerzhitckii]

1:12:55 The quote is not "be quick but don't hurry", it's "Harry, did you put your name in the Goblet of Fire?"

[@julliette8023]

I learned the game playing champs like janna and lulu for years- but when I play solo lanes I’ve always been a hyper aggressive psychopath player with horrible KDAs. I think the main difference is that when I was learning the gane I often Duo with an adc who has hyper aggressive so I was constantly matching his aggression in my supports and trying to get him to be like 30/0 every game. I think if people learned support with an aggressive adc then that could fix that problem!

[@GodHandFemto]

1:03:40 Canadians have a Thanksgiving that's 1 month earlier, he was probably clarifying American Thanksgiving for the date range.

[@Typhoonflame]

Insightful as always! Didn't expect to be mentioned ahah, I appreciate your advice, it helped a lot!

[@tuh774]

I think the actual question on the reddit post was asking "why is MMR and visible rank are different if MMR is the only thing that matters when matching players?" Because otherwise that discussion doesn't make sense. Which i kind of also ask the same question since forever. Because matchmaking is entirely dependant on your MMR. Visual rank doesn't actually do anything in the current system for representing your skill level in terms of matchmaking. I remember a time where i was matching with silvers as platinum 4 constantly because i had constant loss streaks and still didn't demote. So i was constantly asking "why am i still plat if i am actually silver?" The system kinda doesn't make sense in that regard. If my MMR is silver, game should tell me rather than just keep my rank at platinum and trick me into thinking i am better than the people i am matching with. And the funniest part is i didn't even demote. The moment i stopped having loss streaks i was back to playing with plat players again. So was i where i deserved to be when i was constantly losing? Am i where i deserve to be now? I don't know because the game doesn't tell me, i need to look it up from an external site to see my MMR.

[@JerryReyes]

it prevents people from babysitting their rank for long periods of time since it allows for a rank reset without resetting mmr. An mmr reset would lead to a lot of unfair matches and most people would probably have a bad experience until it adjusts.

[@Coraxi]

I feel like part of it is due to the amount of data needed for the skill assessment. MMR is adjusting more rapidly than your visible rank, to keep testing you and calibrating, while the visible rank is there to give a more consistent representation. In 1v1 games like chess this wouldn't be necessary, since your Elo is accurate enough for straight adjustments. Although in Faceit ranking for example only avg team Elo is taken into account for gain/loss - at least in CS which is a team game as well, and it seems to work just fine too. It just doesn't take individual performance into account in any way.

[@iRiDiKi]

Regarding the current season feeling like a chore - last season I was 60%+ winrate, 200+ games deep, I actually counted and had on average the highest OPGG score on my team in like 75% of my games and was a top 3 performer on my team in like 90%+ of my games by this same metric(only mention these two to highlight the consistency I was having) and was playing with Diamonds but couldn't get through Gold 1->Plat promos (I attempted them about 5 times and a solid half of the games had genuine trolls(people selling items, inting, afking) AND they were all average diamond MMR games, titled a couple of times only to climb back to Gold 1 with 70-80% winrate after a short break and I was actually outjungling the vast majority of my diamond opponents when my MMR was at its peak. It's not a good feeling, especially considering your visual rank is what stays on your profile for eternity. This season was even worse after the nerfs to the role, my main and to pings(I would lead and win a lot of games through pings) that despite starting with +40LP gains, I can't even get back into the previous MMR where I was crushing people and I decided to take a step back until next year because the whole experience has just felt terrible due to having less control over my games as I did before. Obviously, this is the intention of the nerfs, but it's removed a lot of the fun considering in 300+ odd games over the year, equating in somewhere in the ballpark of 110-130 hours of gameplay alone, I've never hit an MMR where I can actually learn from going against better opponents/the poor game quality environment and lack of relative power pulls my focus away completely. In the past I played Warcraft 3 RoC at a decently high level -as far as having a top 3 USA player as a practice partner who I would discuss the game with and having a 40-0 account on a 180 ping ladder and double digit smurfs where I'd play and win until I couldn't find games anymore (in the ballpark of 10-0, the server with the lowest ping for me was dying by this time sadly) and the way I got there was by spamming games against better players and improving rapidly. League has so little accessibility to genuine discussion and practice with better players let alone ANYONE that it's pretty flawed IMO and reddit/discord/EDU content don't hit to the same degree as finding yourself in a genuine group of people who are playing the game to have fun, test their skills and improve that is based IN THE GAME/CLIENT.

[@guestofearth]

Used to be smurf queue was the meat grinder for the highly stress tolerant to hone their skills due to just the comprehensive range of skill levels found therein. No longer so. Lamentable.

[@duckcluck123]

Nathan's little side eye at 50:35 is so funny to me

[@lolersauresrex8837]

I’m having an existential crisis as someone who gravitated towards support and prefers that role over other roles and now that I’ve tried to branch out into more selfish/damaging roles I’m having a really hard time. But I’m glad I intuited that I need to get better at other roles to get good at LoL itself and become an even better support Trust the process!!

[@josephrobert6100]

Best podcast of the year, can’t wait that spot in MLA to open up

[@Jinir]

I like the whole "take it to the other extreme and be a killer on the rift" to break not being aggressive enough. I'd just simply explain it to them that you need to engage, and accept it right now that your execution might not be on point, but that you need to start somewhere, practice a few times, try it out in ranked. Put the first basic formula in the mind when practicing aggression (I can do x abilities/movement, and my opponent can do x/movement). Play into that while trying to be aggressive. You will see results.

[@darkblue099]

I started playing this game 10 years ago and just kinda faffed about for most of that time. Only really tried learning the game in season 10-11, during the pandemic, which I tried to do on support. I figured, since I came from tryharding in HotS, I would just utilize that "help whatever lane needs it most" style of play that got me to Diamond there. 3 years later, I haven't been able to break through Gold 3 (I haven't played since the new ranking system due to being a 1st time dad) and I have to wonder now - listening to this - if it isn't the selfless playstyle holding me back. I even main Pyke so I can be more aggressive and greedy, but I suspect that's not what they mean by "playing selfish". Any suggestions on what lane I should be learning to improve this "selfish" style of play I should be learning?

[@ngngye]

I highly recommend you try the midlane, your experience here teaches you a lot about the game - Wave states and farming, early game trading, friendly and enemy jungle/support tracking, roam timers and roaming, objective control, the importance of pings and just communication in general, and teamcomps. Your top laner is an ad bruiser, jungler is a tank, and support is a tank? There are 4 general game plans for you here: 1) Try to bait the enemy jungler into a gank, where your own jungler can counter engage and then you burst them down after they burn movement abilities (flashing onto you, graves dash); 2) push out your waves so that you can dive the enemy top after your top pushes them to tower; 3) push out your lane and look for a roam bot 4v2 with your jungler; or 4) Farm up and keep the enemy mid in lane so they can't roam, maybe pretend to be overly aggressive so that the enemy jungler camps you and you soak pressure for your team to make plays and get objectives elsewhere. These plans have to be flexible; maybe your top inted, maybe your jungler caught out the enemy jungler and burned their flash, maybe your bot got caught 2v3. Know that you may become your team's win condition, so you gotta play safe and not split for an objective. Or maybe your adc is giga-fed, so you play to prevent them from dying by all means necessary.

[@dojadoug]

Top or mid. Top is kinda nice cause its more isolated so you can focus more on the 1v1. But I think that which role you choose should be largely influenced by what type of champs you like playing. Since you already play Pyke, maybe you like assassins, which tend to go mid.

[@mogIy]

Coach Curtis specified the importance of bot turret and i would like to know why bot turret is worth more than top turret? Is it because the enemy adc receives gold or is it a positional advantage so drake is easier to contest but wouldnt Baron advantage be more important or wouldnt it im comfused... answers would be appreciated

[@dojadoug]

I really respect your guys mental because its the best for winning, even though I can't fully adopt it myself. Let me start by saying I agree that scoreline isn't everything. The champs in the game, who has the gold, and other factors matter quite a bit. Sometimes it would appear we are getting smashed but I just feel we can win it. And even when I think early on that a game is lost, I keep playing normally and give it some time. Sometimes things swing back. I look for angles to make plays. I play from behind all the time no problem. That being said, I feel that a team should be able to keep the game reasonably close if they deserve to win. I hate teammates who put zero focus into the laning phase, which puts us at a huge deficit, but try to win by just stalling out the game even if there's only a 0.5% chance to win. imo if you can't play the laning phase even half decently, you don't deserve to climb. call it a game, VOD review what went wrong early, and take that learning into the next game. If my teammates make the game too hard for me (especially as I main a stat check champ with limited outplay mechanics) I just don't want to put in the effort for them just to repeat die for 8-12 minutes then lose anyway.

[@Mariahnacarey]

I played support when I was learning the game. When I decided to learn other roles, it was easier to learn ADC and mid but top and jungle was harder to get a grasp on.

[@2DS3]

does anyone have the stream vod for 18:00?

[@Dilllly]

I WAS a support jungler. I started by playing champs like Nunu and Rammus who in my opinion were "ganking" jgs. And this translated to other junglers that I would play. Long story short, I would get terrible farm because of a narrative I had. I previously won games by getting my lanes ahead through enormous amounts of ganking, and as a result my farm would always be terrible and by 15 or 20 minutes I would be useless because of my lack of farm. Or because I would force terrible ganks and throw lanes for my team. I just thought as a jungler it was my responsibility to gank even when it just didnt make sense to do so. There were a lot of changes that ultimately helped me get out of this mindset and to carry games. The most valuable to me is the idea that your jgl camps are in a lot of scenarios the best default choice for a jungler that has no good options on the map. I heard another player say that your topside is worth 300 gold, and thats guaranteed farm, meanwhile going top, youre risking that tempo in exchange for a potential 300 gold for a kill, 150 for assist, and potentially -300 and -600 if the gank goes south. So when a gank is bad, or I'm unsure I just farm. Thanks Coaches!

[@tristan6773]

“you can’t be scared to fight” me, kassadin, lvl 5: TAKE THIS Q PANTHEON!

[@Kamishi845]

If I'm honest about the rift herald, I often don't like when my jungler takes rift because they rarely pay attention to lane states where taking rift is high reward low risk. They often get collapsed because our top side is weak, I have no mana and need to push out to reset and the list goes on. I would to see you address these situations more, because the likelihood of your jungler making a correct rift play is higher in high elo too. I think one of the things that's also frustrating about low elo isn't just that it's you making bad calls, everyone is making bad calls. There's just a lot less team cohesion that makes the experience way more chaotic.

[@benjaminghazi787]

Sure… ping him back, when you ping, ping in top of him. And if it’s a bad call because you don’t have the mana to fight, well 1-2 things. 1 review the game, did you notice rift is spawning soon, and if so could you have backed in preparation for it? And 2 if you couldn’t for some reason, then ultimately you do what you can in your lane because you will never be able to control your jungle if they do something like that with no lane prio/enemy jungle location.

[@0Bonaparte]

So an idea, I think maybe a reason to not ping your laners as a jungler (or really anyone) when you are very good at the game is the idea of “when the sacrifice themselves I know the next steps” but if the sacrifice doesn’t happen then you change the game and have to reevaluate what the best decision is. It may be a comfort thing? I think they come to the conclusion you should still ping and I am in no position to disagree but it’s a hypothesis as to why someone might not

[@zzzevey]

if the system shows your mmr as your rank the ranked integrity would be intact as the matches would be the exact same, the only difference is that now the rank you see doesnt have a bunch of cushioning that makes it imprecise

[@zzzevey]

the system isnt like it is so "ranking up feels rewarding" its so players dont quit when they get demoted/see the actual impact of their losses

[@Freakattaker]

@@zzzevey It's a bit ironic cuz they still get tilted from looking at their LP losses/gains anyway. "Oh my gosh why am I getting +18 and -30?!" They say after 1W/1L while ignoring the 6 loss streak that happened right before just as they promoted into E4 0LP.

[@zzzevey]

@@Freakattaker the fact that 6 loss streak can be ignored is the whole point and i hate it

[@TheTimtam112]

55:00 I think that's a really interesting concept. Instead of focusing on trying to win games where you're behind your opponent, you should focus on just not getting behind in the first place? Are you referring to your team being behind in general? Or are you referring to being behind compared to your counterpart?

[@goldenarmour7975]

I think most tank support players, even if they will struggle in the CSing department, won't have as much trouble with overly defensive playstyles because to be a good tank support a high amount of risk tolerance and little caring for your own hp bar is needed. You don't have enough items to ACTUALLY tank meaning when you go in and engage for the team you often end up dying with lower kda. Also, because your role in a team composition is so aggressive, you also tend to learn to not be scared to fight very quickly. Personally, I started with tank support and I truly had terrible CSing when I switched to top. But after a few baus videos, my cs became more acceptable.

[@JMGaming1288]

Not sure if you guys keep up on comments this far back (and maybe my question will be answered in the video shortly), but when I lose games I get -29 lp but when I win I only get +22. I feel like that has something to do with my MMR but is there any way to fix that over time? I screwed myself over at the beginning of the split by queuing for ranked as fill and was placed in low iron. I have now climbed to low bronze playing ADC/SUP. Anyway, thanks for the podcast, I love everything you guys are doing!

[@jasonchieco-dubois6837]

I find the discussion about mmr/ rank system very interesting because i do agree that this post is full of copium concidering it took me little over 100 games to go from bronze 4 to gold 2, however it was mentioned that whatever rank u end on is where u will start near next season. I have been playing on two separate accounts that have been placing iron for 3 seasons even tho they end high bronze low silver! I believe this is du to high game count and near 50 winrates, contrary to last season where i played very little and my accounts places low silver and low bronze

[@shanefoster2132]

I've been curious as of late on how Emerald has impacted player distribution. Has it replaced platinum making plat what used to be gold or has emerald become a true middleground for players that used to swing in and out of low diamond (now they float in emerald). Hopefully i worded that well enough and someone might know.

[@yGKeKe]

Emerald contains Gold 2 through D4 ~10LP. It's got a massive skill set of players trapped in it.

[@sloth109]

Support main here who has been transitioning to mid, and I cannot agree more with it being the worst role to start on. My csing skills compared to my peers is horrible and roam too much still. I do not completely agree about us all having a lack of aggression though. As an engage support main I find my level of aggression just fine. I am used to seeing positioning mistakes to capitalize on from my support days!

[@eebbaa5560]

he’s talking about female players specifically though so it makes sense. the stereotype of egirl enchanter players is probably a sizable portion of the support playerbase and that’s what he’s addressing. i agree though i started on support too and even though it made me a shit player i definitely don’t have a problem with aggression lol. i used to play leona and blitzcrank i never even bothered with enchanters lol

[@instinktd]

my csing and lane trading (when I need to do both trades and csing so not on support) skill is also horrible because I started jungle and then played a bit support too but why should I bother if this skill is not needed on the 2 roles I want to play? as a solo laner I would probably end in gold (lmao) but it doesn't hurt my lvl of play at all since I was really close to master in my peak this season (d2 but with mmr that constantly put me vs master players on euw) and I'm still kinda "new" player in the league perspective since I started in s10

[@StayMad26]

The reason Im hooked on league and not any other game, is because in OverWatch 2 for example I could pick it up now and get GM within 10 games again because u just pick up where u left off. I Could make a new account and be in my true eank in 30 games

[@SteveB-nx2uo]

Focusing on KDA too much can be detrimental to the team, game state, and even your own lane. perfect example is the "Early game kill" where an over aggressive laner cant wait to blow their load and get that 1-0-0 but then the enemy laner used that opportunity to shop, or call the jungler over for a gank which is more punishing as an early death means a small respawn timer and no significant reward or objective pressure yet. if they arent missing waves of minions, a death isnt that punishing especially on a top laner with teleport

[@carlosemiralonso7997]

Related to new builds. Im not totally on agreement, for me playing 100 games with a champ with same build already ingrain that personality and stuff. But aside from getting used and not have to think much, is totally okey to once in a while change builds to have a feeling if better or worse. I happens to like to play Ezreal in an incorrect way. The build should be with lot of items that gives mana and cheap ones. But I play it as a normal crit adc with bonus damage (skillshots). This ofc delays the finish build as it is more expensive and so the way of play in seems a lot of those with late game only.

[@bryanglover757]

Would like to see you guys interview “Shok”. Challenger OCE midlaner!

[@DamnightSC2]

About the Ranked System. We could just get the MMR displayed like in broodwar, sc2 or dota2. It really doesn't lose any integrity.

[@StayMad26]

I get into the details, but I had no idea how deep it could go. I watch Quantum's video every night and I never focused on the small details like positioning and patience. I just look at how he uses his abilities😂I've probably missed thousanda of litrle gold nuggets in his gameplay

[@hidesidehs5271]

The ranked should be about being in your own elo and trying to push higher, then improve and then push and then improve again and then rinse and repeat, rather than trying to get where you belong to begin with. This way you would at least play with just the lucky noobs that got there via winstreak, rather than all of them.

[@realNaniByte]

nathan didn't say it the #1 motivational podcast i have no motivation now and I'm going to derank 🥲

[@karenwang313]

I dont think you guys understand how much time 100 games is. Assuming each game is about 30 minutes, that comes about to 50 hours of in game time. Tencent should be embarrassed that it takes them that long to figure out a persons skill level considering the resourced they have.

[@eebbaa5560]

i agree with support being the absolute worst role to start learning the game on lol. not a girl, but i started out learning support because at the time i played with my friends who already occupied the other roles. this was in like season 4 so we were all terrible and they didn’t teach me anything so i didn’t really learn anything about the game for a long, long time. i’m pretty much the only one out of my friends who still plays and i haven’t touched support in years (i play mid and i’m experimenting with top now) but the damage has been done. for as long as i’ve played this game i’ve never been good at it. constantly hardstuck, haven’t found my niche, and the only thing i’ve gained after years of playing is maybe some mechanical skill (i still can’t play ranged champions). season 13 is the first time i’ve taken this game seriously and tried to climb but i feel like i’m learning the game from scratch. i had a really bad first split and i haven’t started the process yet, but i’m working on finding my niche and refining my playstyle so i can start fresh next season (my mmr is completely fucked right now too but i’m not making a second account until i can fix this one lol). anyway, all of this is to say that a lot of my problems with this game came from me starting on support and i have a lot of work to do to unfuck myself. i should really write into the podcast because i need serious professional help lol

[@lidlpotato2047]

As soon as the KDA Player conversation started, I thought, "yep, that's me :p". I even have KDA Player as my title in game. My champion pool consists of Udyr and Hecarim currently with a smidge of Lillia if I need more magic dmg on my team comp, and I'm hardstuck plat 1/emerald 4. I think what's holding me back the most is that I'm very good at getting an individual lead over the enemy jungler, but I have no concept of how to actually do what's best for my team. Like, if I look at my stats on Udyr, I have a KDA of 4.2, with an average 7.2 cs/min. It happens to me a lot that by mid game, min 15 to 20, I am 2 levels and dozens of CS ahead of the enemy jungler. The problem with that is that I feel like I'm buying my individual lead at the cost of my laners falling behind due to enemy jungle pressure and I'm not sure how to fix that. As I said, often times the enemy jungler is much weaker than me in the mid game, but at that point my team is so far behind that teamfights become unplayable anyway. So yeah, I feel like my dilemma is that I've bought my way into emerald 4 with good camp sequencing, efficient farming, and objective taking, but I have absolutely no clue how to gank or put pressure on the map in general and I'm really feeling that when I'm playing vs junglers that are ranked higher than me. It's like I'm getting myself ahead, but the enemy jungler is getting the rest of their team ahead, so I end up in a 1v4. In the past, I've tried playing junglers with a more gank-oriented playstyle to maybe expand my skillset, but every time I lock in a champion like Rek'Sai, Jarvan, Xin Zhao, I either find a way to kind of play them like I would play Udyr, which obviously doesnt work because these champions dont scale with gold and XP nearly as well as he does, or I completely grief my team because I have no idea how to gank well. I am legitimately that jungler that will go bot, die in a 3v2, get no kills in return and ruin my bot lanes wave on top. It's genuinely just sad how bad I am at ganking. I don't have that much time to play league, so I'm kind of stuck between staying in my comfort zone, sticking to Udyr, knowing that I'm probably instilling some terrible habits, or trying to learn a different playstyle, knowing that I will lose an entire season running it down and dropping in ELO massively before it gets better. I'm sure that there's a way to make my playstyle work somehow, there are Udyr players in high challenger last time I checked, but I would need to somehow find a balance between getting my lead and also not throwing my team under the bus at the same time. But it's so difficult because I've been playing the game wrong for so long that it feels like I'm blind on one eye.

[@NoOne-rg1og]

51:00 i personally play on a smurf account as a warmup but also as a limit tester. its a way for me to put myself in the mindset of fighting (or being willing to fight). when i hop on my main after my hands and reaction time have warmed up, i dial it down and focus more on cs, rotations, and macro plays while still being willing and able to capitalize on enemy laner mistakes

[@louisjedinight3363]

About the 36 min segment. I think part of the point made was mode, "their should not be a seperate mmr visually and hidden. Just show us our hidden mmr and make us play with people in the same visual mmr. Because right now a low plat could have low gold mmr. and a silver could have a high mmr, so lets say low gold mmr. So than a plat plays vs a silver and the silver feels like its unfair, even though maybe their hidden mmr is actually the same, but it does not feel good. I felt like maybe part of the point was that.

[@TheShadowIsMoving]

Saltu; Can you please elaborate on your comments about champ identity regarding Lillia? I have seen conqueror/tankier styles with demonic into jak'sho; prior to ROA with a fighter and tankier style for 2 seasons, and never considered this to be outside the champion identity as a fighter/disruptor. Honestly, I'm having trouble understanding your mindset here also on elo-inflation regarding this build, as people who are more fighter-oriented would have greater success on this vs your liandry/demonic comments. Thanks in advance.

[@slof69]

i love long term rewards and its sad to see how people are now and them not feeling that reward is just sad to me idk

[@jacobcannon8876]

Regarding the summoner school question: I think your intuition is a bit skewed, when I first started playing the game I was in low bronze. When I wanted to attempt to hit gold for the first time, (s13, my third season), I put in a lot of practice in normals and would only play ranked with super high intensity. It took me just under 100 games with a 69-71% WR to hit gold 4. Obviously the system doesn’t know that I played a lot of normals and that I’ve gotten significantly better than my last ranked season, but I probably ruined (for opponents) like 40 games on my climb to gold (especially in Bronze). I just don’t understand how the ranked system is praised for being “so accurate”, while simultaneously taking so long to put people where they need to be. It’s obvious riot maintains the ranked system the way they currently do to drive player engagement, there’s no shame in this as they’re a company trying to make money like anyone else, but there should at least be conversations about the magnitude of this issue. League is your career, you hear 100 games and don’t think that’s a lot, but it’s playing league for 3 hours a day, every day, for a month. The MMR knows anyways, but the visual rank lags. It’s annoying to be in lobbies with a bunch of people who have a visual rank much higher than yours and checking to see that they’ve played 600 games this split. I’m in their game: Why are they emerald 3 and I’m gold 2?

[@jimadler2430]

theres also a Canadian thanksgiving

[@TheYProxy]

I don't think climbing being a chore is the problem. The lack of transparency, and the possible discrepancies between your visual rank and actual MMR leads to unnecessary confusion and frustration. Just make the MMR visible. It is weird decision to keep it hidden. Riot has modified the visible LP gains and losses over time but the losses and gains of actual MMR have not been modified accordlingly and this leads to weird confusing gains and losses, and weird matchmaking especially if you go on streaks, wins or losses.

[@TheKlopka]

FYI American Thanksgiving has to be said because Canada has a separate date and is a separate holiday for thanksgiving

[@gen.tucker6024]

Problem with the rank system is only really for very high ranks. Since we now have 3(!!) rank resets this season, you only have some 4 months to reach Challenger for example, and if I remember correctly you can at best start in Diamon 3. Basically impossible to reach Challenger from Diamond 3 before reset if you only have time for 2-3 games each day. You are going to need a very, very high winrate. Below Diamond, I don't see the problem though. And will we have 4 rank resets next season, and 5 after that? Next we know there's a reset every patch...

[@marcinkryczka7044]

i love your podcast

[@Blackfrog67]

22:01 can't agree more I litteraly tell my junglers to never come to if I see the matchup is risky because more times then not they are 2 levels behind force a bad fight and if you know how top can snowball early of the bad move you don't want your jungler runnin it down top early. Junglers often disrespect the difference between levels and they would just come top gank me and I would litteraly be 3 levels ahead with a massive wave and obviously i kill them. Exp and cs is everything in League, kills are only a by product of everything else. People focus on the kills but by actually focusing on everything else and you'll get more kills then by trying desperatly to get kills most of the time.( rule out the talon and kata mid, just kiddin ofc)

[@JimnyThePython]

A good friend of mine introduced his girlfriend to league some years ago, it was really fun, but he told her it would be best to start out by playing YUUMI. I love playing with her, but she has no grasp of anything because most of her time she played league, really unfortunate.

[@X33Ultras0und]

25:57 - this is because you guys see KDA as the result of performing amazing while low elo see KDA as them performing well.

[@nicholasfigueiredo3171]

People want their MMR to be their actual elo. Like it was on the beggining when there was no hidden MMR just your elo.

[@rainerziehtkatapultenachgo9001]

I have been Gold for almost 10yrs, i was always hard stuck despite trying hard. This year, for the first time ever i have hit Plat .. as solo support main at that.

[@Mymusicaldream]

Gold got shifted into Plat, thats why. If you really wanted to hit old plat, you need to hit emerald.

[@rainerziehtkatapultenachgo9001]

@@Mymusicaldream You i know .. but i refuse to believe it, for my own sanity.

[@kenn5365]

I call bs on the reddit post of climbing being a chore 60% being impossible to climb blah blah blah. So I was gold ADC in season 7 and for many previous seasons I was hardstuck gold with thousands of games. I quit playing all together due to all my IRL life goals becoming prio and I achieved a lot of them. I came back in mid October didn't play norms jumped right to rank I got placed in iron 4 and currently climbed to plat 2 and have mid emerald MMR. I am just like any person I had tons of loss streaks and would make the mistake and duo with a support friend who's bad mental/micro/macro.. getting from iron to silver was a breeze but once I got to silver I went from silver 4 to 1 back and fourth like 6 times lol. duo started affecting my LP gains massively went 18+ per win and 27- loss but I kept at it and just focused improving myself.. when the duo was off I'd play solo on the side with a alt account placed in bronze 4 to train top lane and champs I don't play as often and to limit test... eventually the duo dropped to B1 and stopped playing for a week and I went from Silver 3 to gold 4 solo which fortunately made it so we could not play anymore. gradually my bad LP gains started sky rocketing up and I kept the momentum going and I climbed out of gold in 1 week.. and proceeded to climb to plat 2 using Broken By Concepts Block Method. That Bronze account I mentioned earlier I'd play on the side I got it to plat 3. because I used their small champion pool rule.. I also didn't use some OP meta abuser champ I was teemo got flamed majority of champ select. but I always focused on what I could do every game and be consistent... because literally if you look at your OP.GG you can see who you're consistent with and what you need to play STOP CHAMP HOPPING AND YOU"LL ATLEAST CLIMB A FEW TIER LOL. Like everyone else who plays this game I have to play with people always higher mmr/ranks than me and my teammates how lower mmr/ranks, I've had games where I go on 7 loss streak due to afks/inters/etc, The Insert role not doing their role and building goofy items, etc..... and it feels hopeless.. sometimes I start consuming the same copium as that redditor of losers queue winners queue bs but then I snap out of it and realize that not even dopa/faker/etc have 100% and get the same bs. you just gotta preserve and push through and improve and not focus on the bs as hard as it is not to... like curtis/nathan say you got to become obsessed and just hone in to your best ability. Go the extra mile watch how someone plays your main in your elo and how they carry the game or what they do to influence the game... I work a warehouse job and I listen to broken by concept while and open up commentary of my favorite ezreal/teemo player and them explaining why they do waht they do at each point of the game.... I am hoping I can achieve Emerald before the months over. I apologize if my comment is all over the place but I just wanted to type it to give someone some hope because if you truly put in the work and face your flaws (even tho everything else I feel good about I still suck ass at farming consistently after mid game I'll be ahead and then ruin my cs tempo for no reason other than my own ignorance or focus on pushing objectives or grouping etc..) you'll get there. just don't focus on the LP gians the win or loss streak just focus on your abilities and always think of what you can be doing. lots of games aren't winnable and that's okay they teach you. good luck on the rift. I work 50 hours, have a long term relationship, go to the gym, train as a professional dancer, etc. I still make every window for league that I possibly can most people have more time and I know could climb even faster than me. 355 games on my main with a 55% winrate 183 games on my smurf with a 52% winrate

[@thegoodpharmacist0]

I started in the support role, now I play mid and I think I have the support syndrome. And the champ I feel comfortable with is Galio. So, I ult anyone in trouble and we both die

[@SplashyGhost3ye]

Week 1 asking for an ADC guest

[@MrDT2012]

At 37:00 or just that end of the segment, aren't they just describing the state of emerald and new accounts? lol

[@kaylenjoyer]

I don't really understand the point about supports. I am a new player and still in silver. At least here supports like fighting the most out of every role. Every game has at least 1 hook champ or engager and I have seen Leonas tower dive on lvl 1.

[@vondoplays1630]

🐐

[@StayMad26]

1:01:49 - 1:02:15 killed me😂

[@stanimirborov3765]

21:14 nah levels dont matter i beat vex who was 6 levels above me and i was master yi, i beat volibear being 5 levels below him

[@aemaful]

36:05 yeh ofc riot wouldn’t break matchmaking and players wouldn’t have -30 +15 for the majority of this split even when having 65% winratio

[@snowys4168]

Love the podcast, Curtis should never be wearing a hoodie though.

[@Kittensinabox]

SALTU MERCH NATHAN

[@stanimirborov3765]

10:05 bronze kassadin with 130 cs? i dont tink so. dat must be a smurf

[@diversisle6739]

Canadian thanksgiving....

[@snowys4168]

Nobody remembers Canadians exist other than Americans :')

[@yoyokeepitup]

first BBCer

[@ranolol]

So to understand the details, you need your glasses.

[@EvgeniiNeumerzhitckii]

"Imagine if he played Fortnite, did anything relaxed on Playstation" 1:11:20 I don't think Fortnite is the best example of a relaxed game. There are as many tryhards playing Fortnite as League, since it's also a competitive multiplayer game. Maybe, Sims or Minecraft would be a better example?

[@milkpuddle]

❤

[@silashannesarson5934]

37:30 This point about "you get a lucky streak and suddenly there's a crazy skill disparancy" is kind of bad, because that's already what we have in place. Someone can already get a "lucky streak" and get into challenger games with a visible rank of master. The only thing that would change with this redditor's idea is that your visible rank would match your MMR. I'm not saying it's a good/bad idea either way, but this point doesn't make sense.

[@Aanenk]

support players tend to be some of the most selfish players. As an adc talking theres 8/10 games where your supports literally take you CS gold.

[@geli95us]

I don't know what you are talking about, I'm an adc main and a support purposefully taking my farm only happens maybe 1 in 100 games

[@Aanenk]

@@geli95us it's not hard to make it look like an accident

[@geli95us]

@@Aanenk It's also not hard for a tilted adc to assume it's not an accident. Why would they steal only 1 or 2 minions if they want to grief your game? in my experience when people snap it's usually way more noticeable, not something that could be seen as an accident

[@Aanenk]

ok whats ur acc name then? @@geli95us

[@dreamdate4833]

I'm sorry you are wrong about the climb. This season i was dropped into B2 and hit B1 88 LP basically 1 win from my previous Silver ELO. I know many people and you guys dont see it but the lower the rank the harder it is to climb out due to people (rage quitting, feeding, afking, dc'ing, int'ing). After hitting the 88LP B1 i went on a 10gqame loss streak over 3 days and was punished by -30LP per loss and wins would give me 22Lp. When I went to check the OPGG on my team there was many times i would have fresh 30s or unranked.. Why doesn't RIOT put these non ranked people in a all non ranked que and not mixed with the ranked players? Over the course of the time i had to play a total of 350games to get out of Bronze.. yoyoing from B4 to B1. I about quit the game cause I dont think I am a bronze player. Love your show but I still think your out of touch with the skill in the low ELOs

[@Pyrrha_Nikos]

"The system artificially forces you to play between 300-500 games (...) in order to reach 'your elo'" My friend, if you are playing vs high platinum/low emerald players for a significant amount of games, you are at your elo. Even if your rank says otherwise, you made it to the elo you deserve. Your rank is just a shiny badge, the game already put you at "your elo"

[@calvinasu]

At 14 mins my mid and bot are down 30 deaths combined, yep every game is winnable guys

[@Severezz]

The whole "we don't look at scores" part feels so unnecessary. It really sounds like you just convinced eachother that looking at score is bad but don't have a solid reasoning. Instead of looking at score, you look at items, cs, turrets, heralds, dragons, whatever you can come up with as long as it's not the big bad "S" word. Items and levels are the only important thing here. Everything you named just directly affects those two things. Score also affects them. It's fine to look at score as long as it's not the only thing you look at. 25:02 Curtis: "I couldn't even tell you what the scoreline is in the game. I'm looking at who has kills, who doesn't, who's dying a lot, that's it." That's the score. You literally just described the score in more words. I don't mean to be disrespectful, but come on man.

[@yoojinchoi3032]

Interesting thoughts about girls starting out in support and it causing them to learn the game "on hard mode." When my girlfriend started playing with me she started playing as a support...I think because I was more experienced than her and it was natural for her to support me as an adc. But she literally got multiple pentakills with adc champs when we played ARAM, so I told her "nah, you're an adc." A year later she's an adc main and is higher ranked than me, but she definitely picked up some bad CS and aggression-related habits from starting out as a support. I have since become a support main and help her carry when we play XD

[@spacejambluray2591]

nathan looks like a kid from my hs with those glasses. that guy sucked

[@AlluckyTV]

A lot of talking this episode

[@444milk]

its a podcast

[@omarabdillah4722]

Lmao

[@omarabdillah4722]

This aint a reaction video mate

[@sotvrno93]

💀

[@glockdookie5231]

Yall can get into my details

[@sotvrno93]

lil sus