High & Low Fan Case Playtest Experiment: Past Never Dies

[@mattc3780]

Thanks for writing this case Water! Just finished watching. It was exciting to finally see this system tested and to see your case.

[@thinusconradie4297]

I sure wish I could have joined the investigators. Sadly, work intervened, but I am still committed to the project long term.

[@ProfessorB.]

I thought more about the game so I want to add to my comments. So here you go.... I think that my personal circumstances affected my reaction a little bit so let me start with that. I take it that Hight & Low takes some of SH Consulting Detective mechanisms but I have never played SH Consulting Detective so I am not totally familiar with its mechanisms. They are not hard to grasp, of course, and last night I thought they worked well and that they helped move the story along very smoothly. I do agree that making the index references shorter (like B-123, as Jesse suggested) would be easier to follow. My only problem - and it is not a major one - is that I wanted something a little extra. Something other than the basic mechanic of “read, go to the index, find pages to read, read, repeat.” Maybe that’s too harsh, but the thing is that feels a lot like what I do for work when I do book research: I find a book on the topic I need, I look in the index to find where it deals with a certain topic, go to those pages and read; and then do it again and again. It does not feel like “detective work”, it feels like just book work. That’s why I say I wanted a little “extra.” I wanted a little more of the feeling of doing detective work. I would have enjoyed a couple of puzzles, or challenges along the way and a document or two other than the directories. (I guess that's what the newspapers in SHCD are for) If relevant to the topic of the story, a coroner’s report or a contract, or something else. Something to decipher, etc. Nothing too difficult to become frustrating or to stop the flow of the story, but challenging enough to make it fun and something more than just reading along. I found the puzzles in The Hidden Listener to be too difficult for me. The first ones in the Elevator of Mr Hincks were just about right. Aside from that, and I am sure you know this, what makes or breaks a game like this one is the story which must be a well written engaging story that keeps the players interested. I enjoyed the story last night. I also enjoyed the story in the hidden listener but it was too long. In the end, it is all a very challenging balancing act and I admire those of you who are working on scenarios for the game. So, in my humble opinion here is what I think a great game would include: First and foremost, a well written, engaging, inventive narrative detective story. 2. One or two workable - not overly difficult - puzzles or codes or something else to decipher 3. Use of one or two documents other than the directories, or map. 4. A good ending that ties the story together and, this is important, that does NOT depend on new evidence that appears out of nowhere and could not have been detected through the clue system before the ending. I want to read the solution and say to myself “Ah! That’s right! I see it now!” Or “I should have seen that!” Etc. Even when I miss something, I want to be able to see it at the end and enjoy how I got outsmarted. I do NOT want to read the answer and think “where did that come from?” and feel cheated. 5. And if it can all be done so that playtime is less than 2 hours... perfect! Those 4 to 6 hour sessions are too much for me! Finally, a couple more comments. The story last night did not have a sense of “noir” or a detective story of the 30s or 40s. If that is going to be a selling point for the game, scenario authors will want to write the story to convey that feel. Think, Cornell Woolrige, James Cain, Dashiell Hammett, or Chester Himes (whose stories are more in the 1950s but which take place in Harlem).... or, my personal favorites, the Nero Wolfe novels by Rex Stout. I hope this all makes sense and that it does not sound too negative. I really enjoyed the story last night and look forward to playing more. I would play this over Chronicles of Crime any day. I found Chronicles of Crime annoying. In my opinion, having to use the app/QR code for everything is a gimmick that got tiresome very quickly. I thought the app gets in the way of the story. In contrast, I found that in the Unlock adventure boxes, the app enhances the experience by adding to the elements of the game. I really enjoyed the Ticket to Ride and Pandemic Unlock games, for example. Again, I hope this is helpful. And I will see at the next one.

[@COOPFORTWO]

Everything you are saying makes complete sense, and are indeed elements that are planned to be incorporated into cases. This was more of a proof of concept case and so some of the more deductive elements were missing and it was more of a linear story. In the best SHCD style cases, one often comes to a dead end and has to be clever to figure out where to go next, which adds another element of fun. But yes, all of the things you have indentified as wanting are understandable and are goals for the cases eventually. Ditto a more noire vibe.

[@COOPFORTWO]

I had a couple of system thoughts while playing. I am a little worried about the 5 digit #-#### leads, it was hard to keep them in my working memory. I'm thinking maybe we should change those to LETTER-#### (like B-2365), i think that would be easier. We could also drop a digit, (e.g. B-236); that would be enough space for the existing directories, but i have ideas about how to use big blocks of them for different mechanical ideas. However what I could do is is use only 3 significant digits for all directory leads, (e.g. B-2360) with all directory leads ending in 0. We can discuss this more on the discord (discord.gg/up5W7t89rU). The other observation I had is that my philosophical idea of making each neighborhood like a small town, with an average of 1 restaurant, 1 cafe, 1 restaurant, etc. Is working a bit TOO well in the sense that it is too easy to identify the unique restaurant that someone will be at in any given neighborhood. So I am thinking now that i will identify a certain set of categories (restaurants, cafes, bars, maybe drugstores, any others?) and significantly bump up the number of those places in each neighborhood. This would allow case authors to be more subtle about clues to those kinds of places. I could use some help going through the category lists and deciding which ones to bump up.

[@zzzsleepingdragonzzz]

Water I think you did great! My only fault on you plz read Kurt Vonnegut’s Sirens of the Titian.

[@debbielevy3539]

Very interesting! It's good to see the High & Low system in action, though I'm not a fan of supernatural elements in detective stories. I did think the case made good use of the mechanics for the most part, apart from the reverse directory as you say.

[@Whoopsididitagainco]

Hi, this is such an exciting idea. I was just wondering high and low, going to be available for purchase once it’s finished. Or is it something you’re just doing? Do we have access to the documents i.e. the maps, directories et cetera? Or do we have to wait for the whole thing to finish? If so, would you recommend not watching these players because eventually they may be spoilers to the game? I hope all this makes sense.

[@COOPFORTWO]

The directories needed to play will all be made available freely in digital form, including in pdf files suitable for printing. The current set used to make this case is available online, but the directories are still changing. If possible we will try to find a way to let people purchase it pre-printed and bound. Right now we are just playing demo cases, so I wouldn't worry about spoilers. Eventually i will start warning people about spoilers if we start playing more finished longer cases.

[@ProfessorB.]

I enjoyed the system but I did not understand the significance of “marking the letter”. Maybe that’s because I have never played Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective so I am not completely familiar with this type of process. That aside, I liked how the story moved along with the use of the directories, and the white and yellow pages. However, I don’t think I would like a story that would take more than a couple of hours max (preferably shorter than that) because, after all, the system is just flipping through pages and writing down letters and numbers which can get tiring after a while. I feel it was missing puzzles or other different types of challenges, or some exhibits like a coroners report, or some other documents, etc. I feel that if the story can combine more of those elements, it would be a really excellent game. I would much rather play this system than Chronicles of Crime.

[@COOPFORTWO]

The "marking of letters" is a way for the game to make sure you don't access a location before you should, by accident. This is necessary sometimes because the nature of the system is that you can try to visit any location any time you want, even before you hear about it. Most of the time this takes care of itself because you won't think to go to a place until it's mentioned by someone in the story. But occasionally someone will on their own think to go someplace before the author is ready for them to, so they check a condition Letter the player needs to have first attained. We do plan to have more physical documents, etc. But it's also the case that these games really appeal to people who like to have a story stretched out and told through lots of little sections of text, and people who like more puzzles and documents to dig through don't always love this style of storytelling game.