High or Low elbow? Which Beach Volleyball Spiking Technique Is Better?

There are many ways of hitting a volleyball, and a lot of time have been spent by people thinking about different ways to do the armswing, how to spike better, and what really makes a successful beach volleyball attack hit.
I have to admit that I have also fallen into this very deep pit of confusing theories and information in search for answers that would make me and others betetr beach volleyball attackers. Here is a video that will discuss at least some aspects of a successful hit as well as a few different ways to do so, hopefully it will help you navigate these waters a bit better.
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Example hits by pro's:
I happened to exceed the KZbin description max length with all the examples, so I put them on my website instead:
www.learnbeachvolleyballfast....
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Will a high elbow lead to more injuries? I think any sort of scientific data to answer this question is seriously lacking, and you got my take in the video, but here are some more resources that might help you build your own conclusion:
• Volleyball AVCA #1 - H...
prefitpt.com/2013/08/19/the-b...
prefitpt.com/2013/08/14/the-b...
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Further resources to learn more about these techniques from me:
Wristsnap technique video series:
Part 1: • Seeing And Getting To ...
Part 2: • Beach Volleyball Spike...
Part 3 (special mention in this video): • The Truth About The Wr...
Part 4: • Beach Volleyball Spike...
Part 5: Coming soon!
Beach volleyball attacking playlist:
• Cheap DIY Acuspike Vol...
Learn Beach Volleyball Fast courses:
www.learnbeachvolleyballfast....
Learn Beach Volleyball Fast coaching:
www.learnbeachvolleyballfast....
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#BeachVolleyballArmswing
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Intro music credits:
And So It Begins by Artificial.Music / artificial-music Creative Commons - Attribution 3.0 Unported- CC BY 3.0 Free Download / Stream: bit.ly/and-so-it-begins Music promoted by Audio Library • And So It Begins - Art...

[@JP-xe3qo]

From someone who hurted his shoulder many times: I can confirm that hitting with a low elbow approach is much less stressful and painful for your shoulder. I learnt this the hard way.

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Interesting! Was it difficult for you to change? There's no chance you happen to have before and after videos? :)

[@JP-xe3qo]

​@@LearnBeachVolleyballFast Well im still working on it but the pain relief is so big i dont think about coming back to the other way. What I actually do is not only to bring the elbow down back but consciously bring the scapula down too, that is the key, it releases all the tension from the shoulder and opens the shoulder so it allows for more room if you have an impingement. The hard part in my opinion is to keep the arm relaxed and then do the whip without intuitively bring the shoulder back up. And no sorry, have no videos.

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

@@JP-xe3qo Interesting, makes sense! In the middle of my almost 3 year project to try to figure this stuff out, I was out from (full on) volleyball because of shoulder pain for more or less a year roughly. I tried everything I felt like, lots of different physios etcetc. What I actually believe fixed me in the end was stretching my lat, because apparently it was quite tight and that might influence how the shoulder moves. My physiotherapist friend keeps telling me to not give medical advice to for example shoulder injuries and especially not online without seeing the person because what fill fix one persons shoulder will destroy another persons shoulder for life.. But I still feel like sharing the above story just in case it would help somehow. I literally scanned probably at least 50 KZbin videos, had hours and hours of conversations with physios, did rehab excercises for well over 100 hours total I think.. And not in one place during all of that time did anyone even mention about stretching out the lat. Once I started doing that, almost all of the pain was gone within 5 days.. But if you do it, really do it slowly and on your own risk. I really don't want to "inspire" people to get hurt even more. If you ever get videos, feel free to post them here! :)

[@UVjoint]

@@LearnBeachVolleyballFast I think you're OK, coz assuming that lats and pec muscles are tight in many people nowadays isn't such a stretch (no pun intended). Many of us have this hunched-over, protracted-scapulae kinda postures due to using keyboards, mice, etc. for prolonged periods. And I'm sure there are ways to self-determine whether a person has enough ROM in lats and chest. Another thing that also helps , I think, is strengthening the rhomboids and the rotator cuff muscles, which is what J P is referring to above as well, I believe. Isaac Kneubuhl has some good videos on describing how the arm-swing should feel. He also has many indoor hitting approach and arm-swing videos, but I think we can learn some good things from them that'd be applicable to sand too.

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

@@UVjoint Yes I completely agree with the modern lifestyle making us hunched over and there being a certain degree of this work that I think you can prescribe to people pretty risk free.. In a sense the quickest way to do that is to tell someone: "Do yoga." haha. I have realized during this journey that basically people who can bring humans back to their natural ways of using the body (including flexibility, gait patterns etc) will be more and more in demand in the future, because we live lives that more and more destroy our bodies which leads to either pain, or us not being able to reach our full potential in various ways, so understanding these mechanisms will probably be a more and more sought after skill in the future... :) I agree with the second part too, we need to also strengthen the antagonist muscles to the tight muscles in a sense. Isaacs work is interesting.. Has both strengths and weaknesses in my opinion, but I guess that goes for all of us! :)

[@tomosato7788]

I think the main thing about the "low shoulder" is that most people doing that have their upper body tilted, and would be relying more on their pec muscles than rotator cuff muscles (or the pecs and lats when they are in their weakest positions). In the end, I feel like it's all a gradient or spectrum though. Straight arm (what you call spaghetti), high elbow, low elbow, and the roundhouse. The earlier ones give you less power, but likely more last second adjustment in where you hit (timing is much easier whether you are playing a lot in wind or trying to hit quicker sets). So at the lower levels, I feel like the straight arm stuff is taught to middles, though optimally they should go for high elbow to get enough power and learn to refine timing. As some others have noted, roundhouse swings are used more in indoors, I think because speed of spikes become more important than placement compared to sand. It's taught in Japan. I think it's useful to generate lots of power for less muscular, shorter limbed people since it gives more time for acceleration of the arms. The downside is that I think it's harder to adjust last moment.

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Good analysis! I fully agree that all of this is "gradual" or a spectrum of possibilities. You have people doing all sorts of inbetweens and some players (including me) also end up using a different height of elbow in their swing depending on the situation, if I hit a not perfect set so I can't jump fully and time things perfectly, then my armswing tends to have a higher elbow if I still hit the ball with a straight arm and high contact point relative to my body. Yes, I need to go look a bit more at the Japanese players. I agree they have a massive swing, but I have sort of categorized for example Yuji Nishida as a low elbow but not quite roundhouse in my head earlier but I'll go and have another look. I agree speed of spike is more important indoor, then I also think people jump in general higher and have more hangtime in the air, which makes it physically possible for more people to have a massive swing before they are on the way down in their jump and they are "too late" in a sense. Thanks for commenting! These thought exchanges gives I think a clearer picture for all of us about how all of this works! :)

[@tomosato7788]

@@LearnBeachVolleyballFast True. Also, for indoors, no need for last minute adjustments due to wind. If you go for a massive roundhouse, you might miss outdoors even if you had timed everything perfectly until right before contact with the ball. It's probably not that useful, but here are some links to Japanese videos on the different armswings, as thought of by most Japanese coaches, etc. They have three types: straight arm, bow and arrow, and circular that roughly corresponds to the 4 you laid out, with the bow and arrow covering both high and low elbows to some degree. At least the visuals might be useful, but it's more an insight into how I feel like the Japanese, because they are usually shorter and less powerful, have to rely more on technical understanding and refinement to compete. Pretty much most of the instructional channels that try to help beginners address this issue. On the other hand, in the US, it's just "bow and arrow" and there seems to be less thinking and comprehension of the whys and hows at most level.: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6uYf6ehd7Cdo8U kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXyvfqyqd6ijf9U kzbin.info/www/bejne/anSTaXmqf5mWkJY and the last guy had to break it into 4 videos...: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r368pmp6htd9ha8 kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYLUhWmhp9Kro7c kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKipqKKvbsmWe6M kzbin.info/www/bejne/mGGldn-ioduml9E

[@artsyone1]

I wish I had the luxury of deciding between the two. As a shorter player (5’ 8”), the only way that I can possibly spike the ball is with a high elbow and full extension. Indoors, where I can do both, I definitely feel like a low elbow can give me more power as I feel like I’m getting more torque with my upper body (if that makes sense?). Great video as always!

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Yes, that makes sense. I think indoor since people tend to jump higher and therefore hang longer in the air they can do the low elbow hit basically with the technique I use when I hit a bit late/on the way down on the beach. There are some tweaks that are possible to do though to make it possible to hit "earlier" with a low elbow.. To be continued in more videos..! :)

[@gianlu6863]

Woo I've been waiting for this and I was right in doing so: I think that your overall "vision" about attacking being made of many types of techniques, going from general to specific (so we have arm power category and core power category, and inside the latter we have low and high elbow ecc.), I love when things are put in place in a easy and logical way. Thank you as always for the free video and the good knowledge, I'll be waiting for the next one!

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Nice! Yes, I am myself very much a "category" guy haha I love when skills can be put into parts, like "to be able to do x, you need to master a, b and c" for example. And also having clear ways to know when one can do a, when one is good enough at b etc.. Just makes the learning process one has ahead so much clearer rather than being a muddy mystery that one has no idea when it will be done. More stuff like this definitely on it's way, I have a few videos planned that I can't wait until I can release them! :)

[@estebangonzalez569]

Great video. It's really evident how much work you put into these videos and divulging effective/quick information. Thank you.

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Thanks! Glad if it shows! I guess the goal is to create a project that really doesn't have "misinformation", since I have seen so much of that in the volleyball world that I'm sick of it and it slowed down my career a lot haha. Thanks for being here!

[@sargardunawareh2843]

Thank you! I just realized that I use a high elbow technique. I‘ve been playing for 22 years now with no injuries yet! (Knock on wood!😉) I believe high elbow reduces the pressure on the shoulder and involves the wrist more. I’ve had some people asking me how I can get sharp angles sometimes and I kept telling them use the wrist! High elbow allows me the decide in last sec what angle to go for if there is a block right there... thanks again

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Awesome! From your description it almost sounds to me like you are using what I call the wristsnap technique! Do you feel like you sometimes use the wrist to give power to the ball, and sometimes you hit more "through" the ball, or do you always use the wrist? Annd yes, the wristsnap technique for most people will be a type of high elbow swing, and one that I think very rarely will cause any pain in the shoulder! :) Did you happen to see the wristsnap video I made? I was thinking if you recognized my descriptions in it as what you are doing or not! :)

[@BildechtCh]

Great Video as always! Appreciate your content a lot and keep going!

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Thanks man! Yes, more on the way even though there has been way too many and way too long pauses during this pandemic..! :)

[@davidke7952]

This might be specific to me as a more beginner-intermediate level player, but I find the high elbow just helps me hit with full extension. With a low elbow, I tend to swipe or push at the ball in front of me. With a high elbow, I find it easier to aim at a high ball and snap it from the top of the ball. That being said, I can tell there is much more power when I load with my body opened up and my elbow lower, but the bigger swinging motion always throws off how well my swing contacts the ball for some reason

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Hey! Yes this makes sense. The high elbow is a much simpler move and also not as rushed of a move in many ways and therefore it is much easier to "get everything to click". The symptoms of trying to do a low elbow swing without knowing how to do it "quickly enough" are either bad hand contact (like you described) or hitting on the way down, depending on how you time the ball basically. Without having seen you hit I'm guessing you are trying to "rush" the low elbow swing movement beyond how it naturally flows, and therefore the contact gets compromised. For me what naturally happened when I first learned to swing with a low elbow was that I changed the timing also, and hit on the way down (after I had let the full swing happen in it's natural tempo in the air.) Does this make any sense?

[@davidke7952]

@@LearnBeachVolleyballFast Yes, I think so! From what I believe you're saying - there is a sequence you need to execute to go from loading the arm to completing the swing, and they are different between low and high elbow. This means you cannot try to load the arm with a low elbow in the same timing as with a high elbow and expect to contact the ball properly. Because the "low elbow sequence" takes longer, using the same timing as a high elbow will result in a rushed swing (and thus not hit the hand correctly). I believe this is my exact issue, as when I use a low elbow, the most common error is the ball contacting my wrist or even in the middle of my forearm, I assume because it takes too long to swing, so the ball falls further down. In that case, the solution would be to load and begin swinging earlier than I am used to, correct? Rather than just forcing myself to swing faster, load SOONER, and begin the execution of the swing with an earlier timing to meet the ball. Then my question is - do you adjust the direction of your swinging motion as you are executing your spike? A benefit with the high elbow, I think, is that there is less time for the ball to stray: I see the ball, I make the decision of how to swing through it, and then I mindlessly execute the short spiking motion as quickly as I can. If I begin committing to the swing sooner, I would expect the ball will be further from the exact spot I expect. Is this the case, or do you find it is quite easy to adjust to that on the fly?

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

@@davidke7952 Yess, so you are almost right. For most people the low elbow swing will take longer than the high elbow swing, so therefore one would have to time it differently which would lead to all sorts of problems like the ball being able to move more etc. The "secret" that took me almost 3 years to figure out is how to be able to do the low elbow armswing relatively sooner in the jump, without compromising the jump (not jumping fully.) So the timing of the actual jump is just the same, but the internal timing between your jump and the arm loading changes. Does that make sense? There will be more videos coming up on this topic! :)

[@wakawaka1976]

I enjoy/appreciate the focus on individual physiology

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Awesome! I am very fascinated about the physical skills of our sport and human movement in general, so it's kinda my favorite aspect of the game to coach! Happy to hear people are enjoying it!

[@germanrodriguez427]

Thanks for your videos they really help me

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Amazing to hear, thanks! :) There's way more incoming soon enough! Thanks for being here, without people caring this project wouldn't exist! :)

[@feryfery8839]

Great . One of the best video .

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Thanks!! More good videos will come! :)

[@melpupik]

Loved it. Thanks

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Nice! More videos around the topic probably coming this summer! :)

[@scotthall5634]

amazing video + resources!

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Thanks! I hope the resource list is good, and I hope I can build onto it as well in the future. Actually, I will probably end up using it quite a lot myself hahah.

[@lucaspirolli7448]

Great video!

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Thankss! :)

[@marcmatbagon8455]

people on the professional level who use the roundhouse armswing are usually indoor players one example of a player who uses the roundhouse armswing is yuji nishida from japan

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Good point! When I look at Yuji Nishida it's like my mind can't quite decide if I'd categorize him as a roundhouse or just a low elbow haha. On the hard driven hits I see him do I'd say he goes back pretty straight and it looks efficient to me.. The roundhouse for me means a motion so big that you can sort of see that the person is probably losing momentum/time beacuse of it haha. But the video of him that I just saw, there was a soft roll shot by him also and that one I'd kinda call a roundhouse. (Here it is: kzbin.info/www/bejne/imXLiGWln8SUd68 ) Anyway, you are probably right that there will be more roundhouses in indoor compared to beach. Do you happen to have more players in mind? I also think in indoor people jump higher and have more time in the air, therefore there will on average be more time for bigger armswings, if that makes sense! :)

[@Alexander-qy7yz]

Grym video! har börjat ta beachvolleybollen mer seriöst nu och har ofta problem med axeln. Ska experimentera med low-elbow tekniken mer. Tack ska du ha

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Grymt! Experimentering tror jag på, testa litegrann och känn efter! Men axeln är riktigt komplex och det är väldigt många olika saker som kan vara fel allt från stelhet i vissa muskler, riktiga skador på saker, överansträngda muskler, rörelsemönster som förvärrar skadan osvosv. Sjukgymnaster har ibland svaren på ens problem, ibland inte. Om du inte får bukt på problemen så hör av dig, jag är varken sjukgymnast/fysio eller läkare men har fixat min egen axel med lite metoder som min sjukgymnast säger det inte finns någon definitiv forskning kring än (därför är det typ ingen sjukgymnast som säger åt en att göra det jag gjorde eftersom dom vill jobba forskningsbaserat) men han förstog logiken kring det jag hade gjort och tyckte det var väldigt intressant att det hade funkat på mig. Med det sagt så kan jag dela med mig av mina teorier men man ka ske ta dom med en nypa salt och inte som definitiva svar, men som saker man kan experimentera med på egen risk om inget av det som sjukgymnasterna/läkarna vill man ska göra funkar! :) Skriv gärna uppdatering senare kring hur det går, både med tekniken och axelhälsan!

[@kai-3556]

Thanks for the inspirations! With the low elbow approach, is there a way to learn/train yourself to hit the ball at the peak of your jump (specifically is there any drills)? As you said, when i use the low elbow approach, it tends to take more time to load, therefore leading to a delayed armswing. Great video and look forward to your reply!

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Thanks! :) Soo in short, yes there are ways to learn it! Probably the easiest one being not jumping 100%, which is maybe not a super satisfying answer.. 😅 I have been working towards figuring out the answers for this question a long long time, and it seems like there are no simple answers, at least not ones that will work for a lot of people (if a piece of advice I give only works for 1 out of 50 people I am not happy with it.) So my answer will be that more content about this is on its way! 😅

[@vbsand5882]

Thanks for great vid my hitting was best in a while this morning!!!

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Amazing! What did you do differently today from before would you say? :)

[@vbsand5882]

Focused on 3 things today : from this vid high elbow and top of arch and from your old wrist snap vid transferring power via wrist snap and finally hitting earlier

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

@@vbsand5882 Awesome! Did it feel "relaxed yet powerful" somehow when you were hitting? :)

[@michaelwinter3696]

Hey Alex thanks for you’re content. One the most successful players at the highest level of beach volleyball use roundhouse armswing. He is so good, at attacking that rather they like to play against the big hitters like Julius Tholemor now even taller Nils Ehlers. But Clemens Wickler actually change his armswing to roundhouse. If I got it right it just 2 years ago, changing armswing mechanics for him.

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Hey! Do you have video? I'd love to see. Sometimes people call an armswing "roundhouse" when I'd call it "low elbow", I'm wondering if this would be the case here.. In my opinion the true roundhouse is so low that one can see that the player cannot max jump with this kind of armswing, so even if its a very powerful swing the jump is less than what is possible, which means the hit becomes less than what could be possible if that makes sense, not maximizing all potential. But I'd love to have a deeper look before I say too much! :)

[@michaelwinter3696]

Thanks for you’re reply Alex. I’ll look it up.. I do also have from my federation a newspaper article about the different armswing techniques. If you’re interested in that, just let me know

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

@@michaelwinter3696 Please do! The article I'm guessing is written by this guy whos last name is Giatsis or something similar..? Anyway, if you have it I'm happy to have a look! :)

[@michaelwinter3696]

@@LearnBeachVolleyballFast can I email that to you? Do you understand German if not I can translate that for you

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

@@michaelwinter3696 Yess go ahead! [e-mail]! Ich kann ein bischen Deutsch verstanden, aber when I cannot understand Ich kann translate..! 😅

[@waybatch1506]

I feel like striking 'straight' and 'over the shoulder' is way more comfortable for the shoulder than the 'wrist away'. It combines anteversion of the shoulder joint, Extension of the arm/elbow and internal rotation of the humerus. In my experience that's a shoulder-killer if the muscles of the rotator cuff are not strong to keep the shoulder stabil, or you have a lack of mobility in shoulder range of motion in general. What are your thoughts about that observation? Great content, love your channel! :) Keep Up the good Work!

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Hey! Thanks for the insightful comment! :) Soo, in a sense I'd agree with you, in others I don't fully..! Let me explain: I agree that for most people with their most natural/easiest accessible technique what you say is true. Most people can hit straight and over the shoulder no problem and wristaway is really difficult. "The conventional wisdom" in how people should do their spiking approaches in beach volleyball is even built around this fact, many coaches will tell you that on the left side (as a right handed hitter) you should approach with an angle and on the right side you should approach straight because that then allows you to hit in all needed directions. That being said, even if it may be true for most people, it isn't for everyone. I was one of these weirdos that when I came to the beach and started hitting with the technique that came naturally to me, it was easy for me to hit straight and wristaway, but I couldn't understand how people were able to hit over the shoulder with power, I was only able to do soft shots in that direction. So for example the advice of coming in at an angle from the left and straight on the right then actually became wrong for me, I kinda needed to do the opposite and come in straight on the left and with an angle on the right (actually I did something inbetween those two, I came in with just a bit of angle from both sides.) And then lastly, there is the option to learn to do both without hurting your shoulder. I'll get more into how that is done and this topic in future videos, but one of the parts of it is actually shoulder mobility, which you also mentioned, so I like your analysis for that reason also! :) Hope this gave some insights, happy to have you here, and I promise there is a lot more content around this coming! :)

[@waybatch1506]

@@LearnBeachVolleyballFast Thanks for your detailed and fast response! I totally agree with you saying that you can learn all three ways without injuring yourself! Your videos are a great way top learn the proper technique! ;) My intention was to point out, that for beginners and even experienced players, correct(!) technique, shoulder stability and mobility are important components, when you learn attacking, especially wrist away, but are often a bit overlooked because it's just to much fun to hammer the ball into the ground. No matter what and how! We've all been there. :D If you want your arm to be like a whip. Fast, strong, relaxed and flexible but at the same time precise and ready to transfer power onto the ball with the right timing, technique is key. Otherwise you get slapped by that same whip, symbolically speaking. That being said... I am very looking forward to your upcoming videos. Your channel helped improving my beachvolleyball skills! Thanks again!

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

@@waybatch1506 Hahaha! Yes we have all been there. It takes a bit of a mindset shift to become fascinated about technique rather than outcome for a while, so that you can then a bit later again ride on the satisfaction of amazing outcomes! 😅 And this mindset shift is not something that a lot of people go through unfortunately, leading to a lot of plateaued and stagnated careers and a fair bit of injuries as well.. Thanks for the kind words, always fun to hear that people get out of this channel something similar to what my vision was before I started the channel, it's only going to become better! :)

[@joshz6236]

Been waiting this video for a long time haha... just wondering, do you think the lower elbow requires a higher vertical or time in the air to use given that the draw time is long or is it still ok to use for someone with a not so great vertical?

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Yes so good question! I think one way to solve this "problem" is to get an insanely high vertical, just as you say. There is another way too which is basically to figure out how to do the swing relatively "earlier" compared to the jump. This is the thing I have been trying to figure out for almost 3 years and I believe I finally have found the answer to..! More videos on the topic on the way! :)

[@tamasmeszlenyi4591]

i think you might wanna work on shoulder acceleration for a faster swing and also try to cheat with pulling your hitting arm back a bit earlier than it might feel natural. But i would be interested in other ideas as well especially for girls who have a lower vertical by nature. I see a lot of women hitting without pulling back the elbow at all( to make the swing quicker) and trying to arch the back more go gain some power. That definitely looks like a faulty approach.

[@overwatchgale4640]

@@LearnBeachVolleyballFastperhaps miles partain does exactly this… check him out!

[@overwatchgale4640]

@@LearnBeachVolleyballFastcould you tag the video name that you explained this in?

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

@@tamasmeszlenyi4591 I had missed this comment, but yes I agree. Doing a "high elbow" swing is I think accessible for almost everyone with training, a low elbow can be created in different ways, one of them being jumping with bent elbows, another being to not jump fully which makes it possible to "cheat" the arm back earlier than what might otherwise be possible. But of course, the optimal seems to be being able to jump maximally with straight arms and still get the elbow back fast enough to be able to swing fast as well.

[@BelRusMikalai]

Спасибо за подробный разбор!

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Благодарю вас! Надеюсь, поможет! 😀 (переведено с помощью гугл переводчика)

[@BelRusMikalai]

@@LearnBeachVolleyballFast попробовал вчера на тренировке с опущенным локтем и да, удар получается сильнее, но чаще бью в сетку за счёт того, что локоть не подымаю. Но все равно, нагрузка на плечо меньше, чем когда бьешь с высоким локтем изначально

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

@@BelRusMikalai Да, очень часто бывает так, что точка контакта мяч+кисть становится ниже, когда вы замахиваетесь с низким махом руки локтем. В этих случаях я думаю, что лучше использовать высокий локоть, если он позволяет вам касаться мяча выше, по крайней мере, на данный момент. В пляжном волейболе более важно иметь высокую точку контакта и углы при ударе, чем сильный удар, поэтому, если более сильный удар снижает высоту, это, вероятно, хуже. Но, конечно, здоровье плеч также является фактором, вы не хочу использовать технику, которая приводит к проблемам с плечом, но многие люди играют долгую карьеру с высоким махом локтя без проблем с плечом. Это сложно ха-ха. Я уже 4 года пытаюсь понять, как делать махи руками с низким локтем, не теряя высоты в точке контакта, и, кажется, наконец-то понял, но тут все становится по-настоящему сложно.. 😅 (google translate)

[@BelRusMikalai]

@@LearnBeachVolleyballFast спасибо за подробный ответ! Буду пробовать оба варианта 💪

[@mjp431982]

the limiting forward motion for talk about around 12:47 is something i've thought about and would like to learn more about. I''ve been told "reach" or "don't drop your elbow"...It feels like the arm swing is swinging up...confusing?? what you think?

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Yess, that's what I call the wristsnap technique basically. So here's a pretty good an in depth video I made about that technique: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIvHXoiDgpucqZo Good to note is that you can use the wristsnap as a spiking technique in itself, or you can do it as an add-on on top of a core-powered spike. So the examples in the video above are basically getting all their hitting power from just the arm and wristsnap itself, while if you look at the very first hit in this video that you currently are commenting on (high vs low elbow) you will see that it is actually a "core driven spike" but ends up in a wristsnap and doesn't really have a followthrough. KZbin will allow you to have a slowmotion look at it if you go to settings, and on a computer you can even view it frame by frame with the "," and "." buttons. But yes, "reach" is a pretty good description of what happens in it, and I actually think that the momentum of the wrist comes partially from the fact that you reach as far as you can and once the arm can't reach further, that "stop" of the momentum will make the wrist snap/flap. I did mention that really quickly in the video also. My suggestion is go and watch the video because the visuals are a much better explanation than what I can do here in text, and if you have further questions/thoughts, then ask/write them either here or in the comment section for that video! :)

[@yakovduque8077]

best roundhouse example: Gabi from Brazil's women's national volleyball team

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Nice! I will have a look!

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

When I looked at this video (kzbin.info/www/bejne/oorLaKSqibx8fqcsi=NeM719wahlpEIxBE) it kinda looked to me like she sometimes did a roundhouse (elbow below shoulder level) and sometimes a "low elbow" (elbow pretty much at shoulder level), but almost like there was a tendency to hit just a tiny bit after the highest point in the jump the times she did a roundhouse..? Do you agree? For me it would make sense if that was the case, I dont think I have ever seen anyone who jumps 100% and loads below shoulder level and hits the ball "on the way up" or "early", therefore I haven't seen it worth my while trying to learn to load that low, but I'm always open for the possibility that I might have missed something! :)

[@ersare]

cool video :>

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Thankss! :) And also huge thanks for delivering millions of sets to me on the mission to get some video examples for this one hahah.. :)

[@DEEPAKKUMAR-wr5mi]

High elbow best 😮😮

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

You think so? I agree for some people, for others I think low elbow is better! :)

[@tamasmeszlenyi4591]

If i understand correctly what you call 'spaghetti elbow' is when you don't pull back the elbow by opening the chest and rotating the core at all just hit from the triceps and arching the back (which could easily lead to spine issues). I see that technique a lot performed by amateurs (because its a less complex movement and easier to time it) and by women (because its quicker so you can perform it with a smaller jump). If that is the case, your implementation of spaghetti elbow looked more like a 'high elbow' to me (with a bit of rotation from the core and elbow pulling back). I see this technique a lot done by women just because they don't have the airtime to hit at the top of the jump but it seems weak and overstressing the lower back. Also Im not convinced that the 'low elbow' armswing is that much slower than the high one since if you think about it the elbow in the 'high elbow technique' is following a circular movement around the shoulder while the 'low elbow' makes a shortcut at shoulder height. That said, by low/high elbow I didn't mean the actual back elbow position, more the armswing (how it gets to the back position). I have been thinking a lot what could be an appropriate hitting technique for women with moderate vertical. Do you think the the low elbow armswing (pulling the elbow back early not following a a complete circular motion) could be combined with a higher elbow back position?

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Thanks for this comment, lots to dig into here! :) Regarding the spaghetti technique - yes, the thing I tried to do is basically just a very high elbow swing. Meaning having some rotation etc, just that the arm is very close to the head when winding up in the air. So I agree that is more what my repetition was like, and that is also what I tried to do. Then, in the part of the video where I was talking and showing different armswings while standing (right before the video example of my spaghetti arm technique), I'd agree that I showed more of what beginners tend to do, without rotation. That was a mistake actually that I only saw once I was editing the video and I thought to myself "well, everything can't be perfect because then I'll never get done" haha. But the point I think is, that the rotationless technique that beginners sometime use I have never seen a pro use really, at least not consistently. The spaghetti armswing with a very high elbow but still rotation you can see from time to time. Then you wrote: "Also Im not convinced that the 'low elbow' armswing is that much slower than the high one since if you think about it the elbow in the 'high elbow technique' is following a circular movement around the shoulder while the 'low elbow' makes a shortcut at shoulder height. That said, by low/high elbow I didn't mean the actual back elbow position, more the armswing (how it gets to the back position). " Regarding to that I'd say I follow what you mean and agree there is not a huge difference. However, in my experience/observation the high elbow (I also talk about HOW the elbow gets to the back position and not how high the back position is, just like you) is a more natural continuation of the momentum of the arms from the jump, and therefore tends to become a slightly faster way to make things happen in the air. Just enough that many people (most people don't have absolutely massive vertical leaps) struggle to make this happen fast enough so that you can hit on the way up/on the top of the jump, and end up hitting on the way down instead. There are probably exceptions to this, but that has been my observation and what I believe on average is true at least. It is not much slower, just a few milliseconds, but those are the critical milliseconds that determine if you will be able to hit at the top of your jump or a little too late. But this is just my observation, I haven't measured it scientifically or anything so I am open for more viewpoints of course! :) And the thing I have been working on in the last few years is figuring out exactly how one can pull of a low elbow armswing fast enough, and I think I finally found the answers, which is stuff for future content in the project! But the point is, I believe/know that it is fully possible to do a low elbow quickly enough but it is maybe not the most intuitive way for a lot of people who will try! :) Hmm, regarding the last question.. I don't know! Is there a reason you are asking, do you think that could be better somehow? Actually, if you look at the very first spike in the intro of this video, it is maybe slightly more the way you describe it. Go have a look in slowmotion, or on a computer you can even do frame by fram on KZbin with the "," and "." buttons. It is a low elbow armswing, but one that also uses a wristsnap for a quite steep downwards angle and I'd almost say it has a slightly higher back position in a sense.. Let me know about this last question and I'll answer more once I understand more about why you are thinking it might be a good idea! :)

[@tamasmeszlenyi4591]

@@LearnBeachVolleyballFast thx for the quick and elaborate answer. I coach underage girls in Hungary. It is a shame but a number of clubs/coaches in the near past or still teach girls the spaghetti technique, probably a remnant of how women hit in the 80s. Anyway, the major argument against a proper rotational technique, let it be high or low elbow is that lot of girls don't have the vertical to hit on the top of the jump especially on sand. MY experience kinda supports that, i have been teaching the high elbow technique but most girls just don't have the vertical/shoulder speed to hit on top. So I'm looking for technical cheats, I have been trying with something similar to the low elbow armswing, to quit the swing motion with the hitting hand/elbow a bit earlier, trying to get it back in time for the hit. Anyway I really appreciate your analyses, in this case looking for ideas how to get the elbow back the fastest. I was also thinking about what if we are trying to start the armswing a bit earlier in reference to the jump than natural. The thing is that due to a spine injury i cant really go testing myself, only on my girls or looking for beach volley enthusiast youtubers such as yourself:) Keep up the good work!

[@heyouMusic]

Hey! I saw some guitars on background! Lets make some music someday LOL... Beachvolley music!

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Hahaha that's right!! 😅 Used to make a fair bit of music, nowadays don't have as much time for it as I'd want but hopefully in the future I'll be able to make more again! What music do you do? :) Annd the question is, what sort of music is beach volleyball music? 🤨🧐😁

[@heyouMusic]

@@LearnBeachVolleyballFast I play a little bit of everything, but i work with Christian Music (check my channel). Yes man, make more music! Music is life, like beach volleyball, right?! In my head beach volleybal sounds like surf music: spy vs spy, hoodoo gurus, men at work (the old surf music)... Well, I apreciate your answer, and I'm thankful for your work! You help me a lot with technique on Volleyball! Regards from Brazil! =)

[@paolobruno7352]

How can I learn the roundhouse armswing?

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Sorry this comment slipped me by, so this is a way late answer.. but anyway. With a roundhouse armswing, do you mean a "low armswing" where the arm goes back at the shoulder level, or do you mean one of those really round ones, where the arm basically goes back even below the shoulder level?

[@boris.grinshpun]

How are you setting yourself for the spike?

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

You mean on the reps with no setter? In those it is just a self toss, similar to how people jump serve! :)

[@boris.grinshpun]

@@LearnBeachVolleyballFast yes! thanks. do you believe setting yourself can improve timing approach?

[@planetscore]

Does it matter if you have 90 an degrees angle on either approach? I see some people drawing back with almost there palm touching their ear others are religiously advocating to keep it at a 90 degree angle. What are the pros and cons here?

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

Hmm, are we talking about elbow angle here?

[@planetscore]

@@LearnBeachVolleyballFast , yes the angle formed around your elbow before your arm swing. Does it matter and is there a preferred way when comparing both methods? I've seen a lot of teaching footage where people advise a minimum 90 degrees angle, whereas a few advocate a small angle. Does it matter when trying to do one method over the other? Naturally I learned to have a very small angle with my coach telling me to try to touch me ear but I'd love to hear your thoughts about this.

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

@@planetscore Nice! I think I understand what you mean. So just for some definition purposes, I am not sure if by "bigger than 90° angle" you mean elbow straighter or elbow more bent, but for the sake of this answer I will call an extended elbow 0° and a fully bent elbow where hand touches shoulder 180°. Anyway, so I have personally never seen any videos or instruction that has emphasized 90° as a really important thing, if you have any links I'd love to see! Regardless, many of the best hitters in the world have a very steep angle (maybe 160° with my definition) in the "elbow back" position of the armswing. That alone in my mind invalidates any importance of a 90° elbow. Have a look at for example David Åhman from Sweden or Van de Velde from the Netherlands. Ngapeth from France and Mireya Louis from Cuba are good indoor volleyball examples. Maybe that is the answer to your question? Further than that, I believe a "higher elbow swing" will naturally often result in an elbow angle closer to 90°, while the "lower elbow swings" will more often naturally result in the 160° or so elbows. My guess is that any video that promotes a 90° elbow angle also promotes a "high elbow" armswing, ending up in the "Nike" position. But I could be wrong so I'd be curious to see! :)

[@planetscore]

@@LearnBeachVolleyballFast Oh I see. I meant with a

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

@@planetscore @planetscore Interesting! Yeah I think we thought in opposite directions with the angles but whatever, now I think we are synced! 😅 Soo.. I dunno how to put this without sounding too arrogant. But I guess I'll just start this off with that I might be wrong, and if someone points out one day of me being wrong or I realize it myself, I'll eat up my words and also admit it. I have done this before, and I know I will end up doing it in the future also, everybody .akes mistakes. Anyway, so the reason I started this project was partly frustration. Frustration over that existing volleyball instruction/information just didn't work, and upon further examination didn't align with what pro's actually do when they play. "Misinformation" is a hot word since the pandemic came around, but these two videos are good examples of "partial misinformation." So both videos talk about things that sound smart, and are correct. But regarding the 90° claim, the first video (powercore) didn't really have any explanation for why the 90° should be there. The second video (Torq) had a theory for why he believes the 90° is important. This I like much better, because then it is easier for us to sort of critically think about the validity of the argument. He then goes ahead in the same video and shows an example armswing where he himself doesn't keep the 90°. Also, he doesn't seem to keep the 90° when he hits himself: instagram.com/tv/CaAg4airEoy/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= Ok so regardless, in my opinion pretty much any technical "must" becomes a "non-must" if someone performs on a world class level without doing this very detail. David Åhman is the hardest hitter I have seen in real life (and Torqs argument for 90° was hitting hard if I am not mistaken), and as far as I can see David is not doing any 90°: instagram.com/reel/CaKM-UulwlQ/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= This, in my opinion should be the finishing argument for 90° being a must, or even important. I don't really care what certifications or fancy stuff a coach has, as long as they are claiming you have to do something that the top pro's don't do, they are making a mistake. Now, it does however get a little bit more complicated than this, in these coaches favor: Sometimes some cues are helpful for 80% of players, even if the top level players don't technically do what the cue says. In these cases the coach is not doing as bad of a job, but I'd hope they would say "For most people having 90° is a good idea but at the highest levels it might not be" or something similar, rather than "you must have 90°." (Now "90°" became just an example of a coaching cue, but it could be exchanged to any cue.) Hope this makes sense. I have never heard any good argument for 90° even for non top level players.. Even after viewing these two videos - first guy just said it was important with no argument/reason backing it up, second guy had an argument that one could counterargue that it will happen also with a different angle than 90°, and he doesn't even have 90° himself when he hits. So all in all, if I were you and things feel less smooth and it hurts your shoulder and you hit worse when you try to maintain 90°, I'd definitely stop doing that and going back to doing what comes more naturally, especially if the "error" is towards a "bigger angle" (in the way I defined the angles, so more towards 160°). Just the same as I would never ask David Åhman to maintain a 90° angle either if I was coaching him. Hope all of this makes sense, and if I fired too many shots and am too arrogant writing this, then I hope someone calls me out because finding out the truth is more important for me than being right. Now - I'd be super curious to see what your swing actually looks like, both when you let the elbow bend more and when you try to keep a 90° angle.. Do you happen to have any video?

[@fredDeclerck]

14:58, tallers players get away with the error. How can I get away with it ? = how can i get taller ? :P 32 years of high elbow technique here. Ill try low elbow next time i play though to see what it changes.

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

The other way to get away with it is to learn to hit earlier with a low elbow. It took me almost 3 years to figure out how haha.. In I think september 3 years ago I told my friends "give me 2 months.." oh how wrong I was. :) Regarding trying the low elbow technique, please don't hurt yourself "inspired" by this video hahah. Try it out but be smart about it, I'm guessing 32 years of swining one way has made your shoulder VERY used to that technique hahah (with possible physical adaptations etc) and might dislike you asking it to do something else haha. But if you try, please come back and let us know how it went! :)

[@fredDeclerck]

@@LearnBeachVolleyballFast haha 2months to 3 years. I wont push my shoulder too hard. Ill try at warm up.but it ll be in a few days as i cut open my foot the other day with a bobby pin in the sand...

[@LearnBeachVolleyballFast]

​@@fredDeclerck Hahah yes. Not only once during these years I asked myself if I have gone mad for continuing to search for these answers.. :) If you know what the "sunk cost fallacy" is, that one was huge for me 1 year into the journey, and not exactly smaller 2 years into the journey hahah. There will definitely be more video content coming up around this topic. Feel free to record video and post it if you'd feel like when you try, would be interesting to see!