Study: High LDL NOT Linked w/ Plaque Build Up in Heart

[@lindencalloway5]

The concept of health in "The 23 Former Doctor Truths" book completely explains this. I wish I read it sooner

[@johngagliardi8753]

That's crazy. They got bots to like comments too.

[@Formelyknownasnone]

@@johngagliardi8753are you saying that book is crap

[@SgtDan]

Glad to know. I once had triglycerides (almost 2 decades ago) at 1192. I'm back down to normal (106). My cholesterol is high (139) with good HDL (61.6) and high LDL (164) but normal VLDL (21.2). I'm not worried about it though. I workout at least 5 - 6 days a week (weights and a little cardio). I eat pretty clean, following a strict plan. Once upon a time a Dr prescribed me cholesterol meds which I just took, then asked how long I'd need to be on these and he said life. I stopped taking them and started to question why they never brought up diet and exercise. Now when I go to a Dr. I say from the outset I won't take any meds and everything must be addressed by lifestyle FIRST. Glad to report that other than the high cholesterol (which again, I'm not worried about) I'm on no meds, no heart issues, and overall pretty healthy (although I do have a few injuries from my military service, but that's a different story).

[@veniqe]

Your HDL is not high enough. HDL removes LDL cholesterol back to the liver for excretion. HDL is a natural statin.

[@SgtDan]

@veniqe hmmm the reference range is 40-60 mg/dL so a 61.6 is pretty decent

[@veniqe]

@SgtDan Reference range isn't the same as optimal range. More HDL = more anti-inflammatory particles. All reference ranges for HDL that I've seen has been to the effect of >60mg/dL An HDL of 40mg/dL would be very unhealthy.

[@SgtDan]

@@veniqe eh, either way, I'm not worried about it

[@veniqe]

@SgtDan I hope that I have, at the very least, planted a seed in your mind. Carnivore needn't mean high LDL and low HDL. My HDL is 93mg/dL or 2.4mmol/L and my LDL is 50mg/dL or 1.3mmol/L. My HDL was 69.6mg/dL on a high-protein diet in 2023. Our bodies need TONS of free fatty acids and TONS of dietary cholesterol. Don't believe influencers who say that high LDL is benign. It just means that we're not eating enough dietary animal fat.

[@getter_done]

I appreciate the studies you share & your passion for health. Sometimes I watch them a couple times just to make sure I didn’t miss anything. Thanks Mike 👍🏼

[@aintgonnaworrynomore]

Thanks Mike. I never understood how LDL was burrowing into healthy arteries. Just doesn't make sense to me.

[@kenadams5504]

Healthy arteries probably minimises the 'burrowing' ,and ldl particle size/bouyancy probably minimises it too.(large,fluffy as opposed to small,dense ldl particles).

[@tinknal6449]

@@kenadams5504 That and a ketogenic diet is anti inflammatory. Inflammation is the root of arteriosclerosis, plaques are just the bodily response to inflammation.

[@StangspringDK]

@@kenadams5504While I don’t think Attia bears much weight today, he is very clear in his “straight dope on cholesterol”: If the endothelial layer is not compromised, you don’t have atherosclerosis. The question is (and the LMHR study might give an answer), will a change towards a diet with significantly reduced carbohydrates, result in more healthy arteries in general or if it halts plaque progression? Attia has claimed, that arterial damage becomes visible at a very young age, but it is also fair to say, that kids eat a lot of carbs and refined sugar in particular.

[@micaineseeley5339]

​@@kenadams5504there's publications to show no difference between the size of LDL particles. Transcytosis occurs more frequently with smaller particles but larger particles deposit more cholesterol so it equals out. ApoB particle gradient is the most important factor.

[@micaineseeley5339]

It's called transcytosis. Makes sense

[@rtay0311]

Well been carnivore for a year. Total cholesterol is 500. LDL 400. HDL 51. Triglycerides 74. A1C 5.1. Glucose 96

[@andredaedone7732]

Your HDL could be higher but low HDL usually means your body is still in repair mode. Keep it up.

[@micaineseeley5339]

@@rtay0311 the most important marker is what is your plaque burden. What's your CIMT or CT scan results? You have an LDL-C that will massively increase pre-existing ASCVD.

[@micaineseeley5339]

@@andredaedone7732 repair mode? What study did you extrapolate that opinion from?

[@andredaedone7732]

@micaineseeley5339 That is just what it does. You can look it up. My HDL was low for many years and then when I changed my eating to Carnivore it doubled. Last test was 129. My LDL is high too but your body needs that to make hormones and for your brain. High HDL would indicate to me your body does not need much repair.

[@rtay0311]

@@micaineseeley5339 I’ve never done a scan. If I truly believe low carb/ carnivore is the proper way to eat I guess I don’t see the point in the scans and blood panels. Am I to return to the standar American diet because of some panels or scans?

[@oldbiker9739]

stop eating seed oils fructose and sugar

[@markadams7328]

YES, and stay active!

[@krzykris]

I minimized seed oils 6 months ago. It significantly reduced inflammation in my body.

[@micaineseeley5339]

@@krzykris what inflammatory markers?

[@WholeLottaLoveHandles]

And perhaps grains?

[@micaineseeley5339]

​@@WholeLottaLoveHandlesgrains does not increase the casual protein in ASCVD, fats do.

[@manxsthetic]

I think best thing is to maintain everything in moderate limits. Cuz anything too high will get debunked as unhealthy at some point. How can we rely on any study anymore everything is contradictory after sometime!

[@mj625]

Those are the same words spoken by everyone on the standard American diet. Good luck with that.

[@chargermopar]

Funny, i live in Miami and have been carnivore for decades, no one tested me LOL!

[@kevinward2488]

So what does cause arterial plaque? High blood glucose levels and high BP?

[@AD-wm9if]

Microplastics?

[@OKMX5]

Inflammation and insulin resistance.

[@benbernanke7701]

Immigration

[@grasshopper3918]

Inflation🤣🤣🤣

[@Daniel_Adam]

Dr Abz has a great explanation on this.

[@danteburritar2822]

Well it’s small LDL particles that are the problem not large ones. We need studies like this to let us know the particles sizes of the individuals. Are the Keto folks Pattern A (large LDL particles) and people with more plaque Pattern B (small LDL particles)? Personally I did Dave Feldmans inversion pattern test 6 years ago. It and the bloodwork from that indicated to Dave that I was near-LMHR, then a year later while still keto I had a heart attack needing 3 stents in the LAD. I did smoke for 20 years and had a bad high-carb diet for decades (until I went Paleo 4 years before I tried Keto). Since the heart attack I have stayed low-carb, focused more on getting enough protein. I was also on Niacin (flush) for a while and had all the meds prescribed (including maximum statin dose and no side-effects). I managed to get my exercise levels back up and do 8km rowing machine every other day and weights some days. 8 months ago I had LDL-p / LDL sub-fraction blood tests and I have only large buoyant LDL particles, I am Pattern A now, I suspect I was Pattern B before the heart attack. I recently had a new CT Angiogram to see the current state of play and have some stable plaque but no soft plaque and no progression of the disease since the heart atack. My main risk now seems to be a little inflammation next to my RCA.

[@micaineseeley5339]

There's no difference in particle size. Smaller transcytosis more easily but larger deposits more. Equals out

[@andredaedone7732]

Small VLDL can be excluded from fasting...simple enough. The rest of what you said is just overthinking. Heart and arterial issues are/were caused from previous bad living.

[@kennethblakeley6536]

Maybe the reduced rate of 2nd ❤️ attacks is nothing to do with statins ,but lifestyle changes 🤔..after the shock

[@markadams7328]

Good point!!

[@ChadRD]

What about soft plaque that hasn't calcified yet?

[@markadams7328]

Great question...

[@billuhman]

And calcification takes a LONG time.

[@richh1576]

What about the surface electronic (usually negative) charges that are prevalent on nano & µM particles ?? The (inorganic) quantum mechanics / physical-chemistry communities have been wrestling with such agglomeration/growth of nano/sub-micro particle 'deposition problems' in 'conduit flow' regimes for decades.

[@Sophal27]

LDL may be physiologicaly high because of fat adaptation, in that case there is no CVD risk. High LDl may also be caused by dysfunctional apoB with other risk factors, in That case there is a risk of plaque build up.

[@robertmitchell1920]

LDL is a substrate in the CVD process when it becomes oxidised. The real cause is oxidation/inflammation which gets out of hand due to plethora of reasons, ie toxic chemicals, lack of protective chemicals, dysfunctional immune system and metabolic disease, stress, ect.

[@jakobsliman1179]

I agree, what we should be asking is not whether ldl is casual in heart disease, we should be asking if the cause of the high ldl changes ldl’s behavior, which is slowly becoming true. High ldl from a standard American diet is correlated and most likely causal in heart disease, but high ldl in the context of a healthy diet doesn’t seem to be causal especially in LMHRs, which have a distinct reason for having exorbitantly high ldl levels.

[@TG-vg3qe]

The TG/HDL ratios are basically inverses of each other. I'd take the low ratio and high LDL.

[@picodegallo1959]

Excellent. Keto rocks. This will calm the usual Cardios who freak out every time an LDL comes back elevated.

[@brute_force_and_ignorance]

It's an observational study, so it's not clear what all the confounders are, for example, physical activity, physical conditioning, etc., particularly since the keto group is essentially self-selected. Of note is that while the subjects were supposedly "matched" their BMIs are statistically significantly different, indicating possibly additional lifestyle/health/nutrition factors that may compensate for the higher LDL. Additionally, calcium score is only reflective of calcified plaque, and does not necessarily indicate the level of plaque. The more relevant datum is the total stenosis score, since that's qualitatively (in the study) derived from actual imaging of artery lumen thickness. However, they apparently didn't fund actual measurements of percentage stenosis, which might have been more informative.

[@rod7944]

Feldman's measurements were done by CT angiogram, and a non-finding of association is strong evidence that is not causal

[@plainjane188]

Can we have the link to the study plz

[@junetrenholm9810]

Maybe a protective feature in Keto diet people is that they are encouraged to keep their urinary pH at 7 or above. They may also be more aware of vit K2 and avoid seed oils.

[@JamesKing2understandinglife]

The CAC score that is increasing at a rate more than5 to 10% a year is of greater association to mortality than a Higher CAC score that is not increasing because the CAC does not actually measure the dangerous soft plaque that turns into the hard CAC that is not what causes the clots that cause heart attack.

[@SongbirdRanch2005]

I was told to take CIMT test to identify any soft plaques

[@x.y.7385]

Is there a cholesterol/LDL lab result/reading that would be cause for concern ? If so, what would one be looking for in the labs?

[@picodegallo1959]

Regarding the plaque buildup question- the body is incredibly dynamic and has an amazing ability to heal. I've read that Berberine, K2, Niacin, ASA all are supposed to help, but I'm not sure there are perfect studies on this. My guess is that IF there's a route- Keto/Carnivore or even going vegetarian for a period of 6 months- 1 year might be legit. Just my thoughts.

[@Lennythewinner]

Hi Mike, may I tactfully point out that the second syllable of 'cohort' rhymes with 'port' and the first syllable of 'haughty'. It is not homophonous with 'hurt'. Thanks, and with kindness, Len W.

[@arkrainflood]

it is OXIDIZED LDL that causes plaque build up.

[@schaef1722]

I can’t tell you how frustrating it is after being keto for 3 years and my ldl in the 300s and my cardiologist insisting I get back on statins or a PSK inhibitor.

[@SongbirdRanch2005]

I have been on KETO for over 2years now. My LDL IS about 400. All other markers are great!

[@SongbirdRanch2005]

My CAC SCORE is 16. I would need to do CIMT to find out my soft plague number. If it turns out good, then I won’t take statin any more. I always got muscle pain when taking statin. Current I take pravastatin, the muscle pain is much less. However it affects my liver. I don’t like it.

[@schaef1722]

@@SongbirdRanch2005 I tried to do a CAC score, but they wouldn’t let me because I have a stent

[@schaef1722]

I was on Statins for years. Had my LDL down to 104. I had stiffness in my joints,back,legs, brain fog. Then I had a mild heart attack. Decided to do something on my own got on keto started working out never felt better in the last two or three years, but my LDL 360 and my doctors having a fit.

[@darrelstewart3002]

No use obsessing- compulsing about this because we are all only here for a little while. The rest home doctors can keep you alive well into your 90’s. Why not go out living life to the best of your ability!!!

[@michellezirngibl78]

Does it cover which type of LDL it is? Small dense as opposed to large fluffy?

[@micaineseeley5339]

It's too short of a time frame for diet induced FH LDL-C levels to show an appreciable effect. To draw any conclusions from this short preliminary data and apply it to the ApoB model of atherosclerosis is sophomoric.

[@mikeparker444]

Chat GPT tells me that LDL cholesterol is not metabolised for energy. What if that's wrong? What if in people on a low carb diet, with high ketones, excess cholesterol is processed by the body for energy through some process we as yet don't know about. That would be a very simple explanation for why so much more is being transported in the blood. If you're not eating sugar, your body has to run on something.

[@B.Rights]

LDL is not energy but it transport energy hence the increase

[@janalderton8644]

Inflammation is important.

[@ericwiesel89]

That's a potentially confusing statement.... yes, inflammation is involved in our body's process of healing but unnecessary inflammation due to junk food that our country so lovingly floods stores with, not the valuable experience of inflammation forus to have to deal with.

[@hollisday1421]

Systemic inflammation is bad

[@janalderton8644]

@@hollisday1421 Yes. That is what I was thinking. I have Rheumatoid Arthritis -so this puts me at higher risk. I avoid junk food.

[@Melissa449]

GLORY!!!I'm favoured, $255k every 3weeks! I can now afford anything and also support God's work and the church.

[@BlessingJoy-q3v]

That's a major turn around. Praise be to Jesus our Lord. Hallelujah

[@BlessingJoy-q3v]

But then, what do you do? How do you come about that in that period?

[@JohnsonJohn-j1o]

It has been Mildred Evelyn Rooney. That's been the secret to this wealth transfer. A lot of folks in the US amd abroad are getting so much from it, God has been good to my household Thank you Jesus.

[@JohnsonJohn-j1o]

Big Thanks to my co-worker (Alex) who suggested MS MILDRED EVELYN ROONEY

[@JohnsonJohn-j1o]

Her top notch guidance and expertise on digital market changed the game for me

[@samuelspade889]

The biggest but…. If diet is indeed the sine qua non of health good or bad. Then doctors will not be able the prescribe potions, elixirs and pills. The entire medical system is captured by the money men. I haven’t seen a “Doctor” in 17 years, except for a mandatory physical every 2 years. Question I get from them: how are you so healthy?

[@BTCexit]

Way off topic but what camera do you use?

[@Leoji67]

Can you provide the link to the study?

[@robertbeckler5058]

I would shovel snow in 20 below weather for an hour. Hardly move my blood pressure. My ex calls me and I check. 160 over 90

[@johnnygrube]

Thanks.

[@JohnSmith-ct7sh]

Nick and dave are trailblazers

[@mynock250]

The key word is LEAN mass hyper responder .....it's a minuscule portion of the Keto community. The key word again is LEAN mass.

[@rod7944]

but if LDL were causal to heart disease, their should have been an association, and there wasn't

[@foleydvm]

but this study does NOT support your previous videos suggestion that keto diet LOWERS CAC score

[@Formelyknownasnone]

There’s a delay in the post. Your audio is not synced with your lips moving in this video. It’s annoying. I’ve tested it on two different devices with different internet sources.

[@LatimusChadimus]

👍 give 👍 a 👍 like 👍 for 👍 Mike! 👍

[@nobukazumikami5466]

Why did they use BMI, instead of body fat percentage? The paper shows similar Hemoglobin A1C in the two groups, but does not mention blood insulin level. Hemoglobin A1C could be low if the subjects have elevated blood insulin level released by overdriving pancreas. Elevated insulin and elevated blood glucose could damage inner lining of blood vessels which activate platelets, leading to plaque accumulation.

[@Divinefapper]

Subjects were LEAN mass hyper responders; this means all of the individuals studied had a low fat percentage. You can’t be a lean mass hyper responder if you aren’t lean.

[@matthiaspriester2368]

​@@DivinefapperThere is a little bit of a misnomer, when the name LHMR went public. The only definition of LHMR is the Trad of HDL, LDL and Triglycerides. This said. The likelihood of presenting as a LMHR is greater the leaner you are.

[@nobukazumikami5466]

@@Divinefapper There are skinny fat people. BMI cannot filter these people out.

[@catchristo9406]

He talks with his hands. Every hand movement gives him credit for a step. His step number on his watch is elevated above his real step number. Just saying.

[@sunwm2003]

I am sorry to say, your knowledge of cvd needs a huge boast. There are so many cardiologist on KZbin telling what’s causing cvd. Admire your energy of getting the truth still.

[@antoinetteqvistorff2270]

So much time spent on high LDL. For the LMHR how dangerous is very high HDL. That is greater than 100.

[@iss8504]

Again, nobody knows. This is also why studies are a good idea.

[@jellybeanvinkler4878]

​@iss8504 well done, unbiased studies are a good idea.

[@antoinetteqvistorff2270]

@@iss8504 Only studies on high LDL and no studies or attention on dysfunction high HDL.

[@Elon_Musket]

Triglycerides 421 to 149 Cholesterol 250 to 160 LDL 27 to 30 😂

[@SheenaHarper]

🤯

[@franciscoadolfo5805]

You were poorly prepared to deliver this study. You rushed to put it out

[@lyfandeth]

Sinus problems? You seem to be breathing on the mic, fwiw.

[@samuelgaver7757]

Why are you stuck in yesterday's stupid theories? It probably might have to do with reliance on Harvard. This is total BS from 1958.

[@iss8504]

It's the standard of care now. My doctor insisted I needed a statin even with a zero CAC score after 8 years of keto. Nick is doing the right thing by creating studies too.

[@Sarah-with-an-H]

He's bringing it up because this is what government standards focus on

[@stevelanghorn1407]

If you've got a point to make why be insulting? Does it help you get your message across?

[@billuhman]

​@@iss8504my CAC is 0. My proximal lad has a soft blockage of 40% as verified by the gold standard angiogram.

[@charon6679]

LDL may be or may not be a problem for them, but for any keto dieter the long term dependance on stress hormones like glucagon and cortisol (+ low thyroid function) may be problematic.

[@robb5744]

High LOL not linked w artery plaque

[@grasshopper3918]

High LOL😀 is MAHA.

[@basketteuse1409]

GLORY!!!I'm favoured, $255k every 3weeks! I can now afford anything and also support God's work and the church.

[@mkcspc]

That's a major turn around. Praise be to Jesus our Lord. Hallelujah

[@mkcspc]

But then, what do you do? How do you come about that in that period?

[@54diesel54]

It has been Mildred Evelyn Rooney. That's been the secret to this wealth transfer. A lot of folks in the US amd abroad are getting so much from it, God has been good to my household Thank you Jesus.

[@54diesel54]

Big Thanks to my co-worker (Alex) who suggested MS MILDRED EVELYN ROONEY

[@54diesel54]

Her top notch guidance and expertise on digital market changed the game for me