Under String Guitar Fret Leveling

[@jayartz8562]

Been using understring level for 15 years, works perfect for me. I especially like it for my personal set up, allows for easy low buzz free action.

[@theNextProject]

Thanks for the vid. Have you tried the Katana, or other similar methods? Under string tension with the relief set to whatever desired amount, the neck is under compression and the fret tops are relief-arc sanded ( _arc leveled?_ ). The fret-tops are sanded to follow the relief-arc, not a "flat" plane. As you mentioned, crowning and polishing will then follow. A bit different than the under string flatbar process. Thanks again.

[@Guitarlife1107]

This is useful content. i have learned new technique of repairing guitars. Thank you sir.. and keep it up!

[@HighlineGuitars]

You are welcome, I try to be thorough in my explanations.

[@Guitarlife1107]

@@HighlineGuitars your topic is the question unanswered in my mind. Now Finally got the answer

[@Guitarlife1107]

@HighlineGuitars can you make another video demonstrating the "Under string Fret levelling" then remove the string to do fret crowning, fret Dressing and polish so that we can confirm it is an effective method to do fret level.

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@Guitarlife1107 I will do one as part of my next guitar project and while reviewing the under-string leveling beam I recently bought. This will happen sometime this spring or summer.

[@weshinds9884]

That is interesting. I never would have thought of that because when playing, I prefer as little relief and as straight a neck as possible.

[@wehocommunitywatch]

Yes!!! Thank you!

[@christianhertwig1593]

I have a question. Guitar necks can respond very strongly to changes in temperature and humidity levels depending on the type of base wood, the cut, the fretboard wood, the type of glue, bracing material (cheap or not cheap steel) other bracing, all sizes (thickness and shape) that can create stresses in the wood. Linear (lengthwise) or torsion and up and down (bow and flat) In the old years the masts were thicker and above all they were shorter and many did NOT have frets. So they didn't have certain problems. Now my point. Only with a curve that is only a few tenths (0.1 to 0.4 mm) along the entire length of the mast can we not speak of a leveling? Especially since this leveling is a temporary effect. Another thing would be to measure the heights of all the frets at all points and level them all to the same height. Another thing would be to measure the heights of all the frets at all points and level them all to the same height. Or not to use the word leveling. And so to simply talk about raising and lowering each fret point fret by fret. Do you understand my doubt? 🤗👍

[@HighlineGuitars]

You asked two questions. The first was... "can we speak of a leveling?" Sure. You can call it whatever you want. I call it leveling because everyone else does. How about "fret height adjustment?" It's a bit of a mouthful, but perhaps more accurate. Your second question was... "Do you understand my doubt?" Yes I do. However, measuring the height of each fret fails to take into account the state of the fretboard and how the fretboard's surface can affect the height of each fret individually so that some are higher than others, which causes string buzz.

[@christianhertwig1593]

@ Ok, thank you very much for your answer. Of course, if we talk about leveling, and this expression is also used in Spain and Germany, I always think of a completely straight line. To say from point A to point B you have to get an absolute straight line. And from there always my doubts, because I do not see an absolute straightness with a material that can be deformed relatively easily. And I understand that possible problem that the base of the frets, the fingerboard, can wear out from rubbing over time or simply becoming uneven from swelling and decreasing in volume with extreme drying. 🤗 If you get a guitar with a problem of worn frets, strongly or very little, wouldn't it be advisable to change all the frets for ones of better materials? Stainless steel for example? Phew, another question 😏 Or two .... 😏 😂😂😂

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@christianhertwig1593 It really depends on the height of the worn frets and whether the owner wants to pay for a refret.

[@christianhertwig1593]

@ Thank you again 🤗👍

[@magicmitts]

At 3:10 you mention inducing upbow, but the neck jig is designed to create a level fingerboard whilst being under tension. Then you can use the flat bar to level.

[@HighlineGuitars]

You are incorrect. This is from the Stewmac website..."With the strings on, the neck's curvature is zeroed-in with dial calipers. When the strings come off, the Jig holds the neck in the same position as when it was strung up in the playing position. Now you can do your fretwork with total accuracy, because when you string the guitar back up the neck doesn't change."

[@magicmitts]

@@HighlineGuitars Thanks for the quote. I love your channel Chris, and will continue to watch your excellent videos! (You are incorrect on this point, by the way. Check the Stewmac video on how to set up the jig.)

[@HighlineGuitars]

@@magicmitts You're right. Sort of. The video they now have on their website states that the truss rod should be adjusted to be level. In the past, they said you should use the dial indicators to measure the amount of up bow so that when you remove the strings, straps can be adjusted to artificially mimic the bow that was present with the strings in place. I guess they have modified their way of recommending its use. It's been many years since I had one and I think I got rid of it because it was expensive and didn't make sense to me.

[@sgt.grinch3299]

Thanks Chris.

[@tk75jo]

Either carbon fiber rods so the neck hardly moves, like Kiesel. Or understring fret leveling. Or plek machine that measures the frets under string tension before leveling. Anything else will give less than perfect results. Necks hardly ever bend evenly under string tension. It's a pain.

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

How does one get proper levelling along a single fret with this tool. I can see how you run up and down the fretboard but going from string pair to string pair would leave parallel witness marks would it not ?

[@HighlineGuitars]

One might think it does, and if you move the tool back and forth with the consistency of a machine, you might get those "witness marks." However, a gentle side to side action will prevent that from happening.

[@mrtickles5982]

A fretboard makes a kind of an s-curve while in string tension. So you could benefit from understring leveling even in new guitars! I see a classic strings off-leveling as 80%, strings on leveling as 100% both minus human error of course... both ways make a guitar nice to play. Then there's the tools that mimic a possible bow for the hair-splitting super nerdy stuff! But aren't we all nerds (in a good way)?

[@ronfeinman1656]

For those who typically create some falloff on the upmost frets, does this method eliminate the need for that, or would you still build in a little falloff?

[@HighlineGuitars]

In my experience, no it technically does not eliminate the need to generate falloff. Since you're leveling the frets under string tension, which induces relief, the frets are level in relation to the strings. This means the frets at the end of the fretboard are shorter in height than at the middle, however, they are all level to one another. To achieve falloff, you will still have to generate it as you normally would. You have to be careful doing this because the frets at the end of the fretboard will end up even shorter. How much shorter will depend on how much up bow there was when you performed the overall under string leveling process.

[@Ramplcro]

Great. I guess on older guitars is a good idea, especially those with major neck creep. Can you at least say that the aliexpress leveling beam is worth considering or not? I don't want to spoil your future review video.😁

[@zolwikwkurwik]

I think you are wrong. The main idea of using understring beam is to get the neck under tension to unveil the neck unstandard behavior. The neck should be set straight with the strings on before leveling. Doing leveling with reliefed neck will get you streight neck fret height but on a bowed neck. What are the advantages of doing this?

[@Donking-g9h]

I just wanted to say something before they put a 25% tariff on my comments, I am from Canada 🇨🇦

[@christianhertwig1593]

😂

[@flatroc1]

Keep on keepin' on...

[@sgt.grinch3299]

Welcome #51 @DonKing

[@timziegler3765]

I don’t see a place in my tool bench for this tool but maybe some do Thanks for showing options

[@ZoomRmc]

This "vibrating the most in the middle of the scale length" needs to die, people take it literally and justify this relief nonsense. The maximum amplitude is at the middle of the *current* string length. When fretting starting about the 5th-7th fret the middle of the string is past the point of the truss rod adjustment, meaning any relief starts playing against you, as you're now in the zone that's moved down relative to the saddle and frets at the end of the fretboard. Relief makes sense only if you strongly favour open strings and first 3-5 frets. PS: leveling under tension rules. It's more convenient, more precise and less wasteful.

[@slidersson]

Hear hear!!!

[@vw9659]

There are two rather different approaches to understring levelling: (1) a flat beam that requires the neck to be set straight (using a notched straight edge) before understring levelling (Stewmac or aliexpress Fretbar, Wudtone UTFL), or (2) a beam with an adjustable curve that is set to mimic/impose 3-point neck curvature prior to levelling (Katana and Sam Deeks' Banana).

[@HighlineGuitars]

First of all, you can use a flat beam on a neck that has relief, and many do. You're still leveling the frets relative to the strings. I didn't mention the Katana (for reasons I don't want to get into here) or the Sam Deek's banana because they don't level the frets with regard to the strings. In fact, they don't level frets at all. They simply make each fret the same height off the fretboard. But they are anything but level.

[@vw9659]

@@HighlineGuitars using a flat beam on a neck with relief just flattens the relief. Which means you're taking off more fret metal than necessary. Unless you actually want a neck with zero relief. You end up with a flat fret profile (radiused, if done well), and then the neck needs to be adjusted to add the relief back in. Not the most logical way to go about it. It makes more sense to straighten the neck first, level the frets, and then adjust the relief back in. The Katana/Banana do basically the same job as a flat beam applied to a straight neck. They just do it without having to straighten the neck first. They also have the advantage of being able to test for buzz-free playing and choke-free bending while doing the levelling (which you can't do with strings-off levelling, nor really with flat-beam understring levelling on a neck that doesn't have its final relief). That means that the absolute minimum fret metal is removed - you stop when it plays well. I have used both approaches. They each have their pros and cons. Katana/Banana is very much "levelling", just with relief in place. Which is what you end up after a flat beam on a straightened neck followed by final relief adjustment anyway. In both cases you end up with the strings at the distance from the frets that you feel is conducive to the playing needs.

[@srt8speed]

Not sold

[@slidersson]

"Don't recommend channel"....aaahhhhh instant relief.

[@Donking-g9h]

Finally, I got the first word in 🎉

[@trampusschuck1019]

Seams like this would just grid the low and high frets down and leave the middle frets high, there would be no relief when you were done, just a guitar that will only be playable with one gauge string and one tuning.

[@HighlineGuitars]

This is the debate. Some people swear by it and others swear at it. Then there are also the Katana fans!

[@popsfereal]

This is the reason I level my Frets with the neck flat. I thought the same thing when I saw this to Mac jig.

[@sgt.grinch3299]

I ordered 2 shirts a month ago and they are not even printed yet. MAGGA!

[@HighlineGuitars]

The company has had distribution problems. I had an order take a couple of months myself. If you contact me though my Highline Guitars website, www.highlineguitars.com/, and provide me with an order number, I can try and rattle a few cages.

[@slidersson]

Maybe this would be a lot more interesting if you actually showed something instead of just talking to much about it. Boring. But a very interesting subject.

[@HighlineGuitars]

Obviously, my channel is not for you. I would encourage you to find a channel that explains this technical information in a highly simplified manner, perhaps with cartoons.

[@slidersson]

@@HighlineGuitars I have a question for you, shouldn't the deepest point of the relief (if there is any) be where the middle of the string is. Since the trussrod never bends the fretboard the correct way (in my opinion.).

[@slidersson]

I just watched this again just to see if I missed anything but no: it is very boring. The title of the video is "under string guitar fret leveling" and instead you just go yada yada. You eventually touch the tool we're all interested in - but very briefly. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[@HighlineGuitars]

LOL! 244 thumbs up and only 2 thumbs down. LOL!

[@Donking-g9h]

Can you use this technique on the new Trump, make America great again guitar?

[@BK-ox6wn]

Better idea. Simulate upbow by jumping up and down on the guitar neck. You're welcome.

[@stevelaferney3579]

From what I’ve seen of its design the guitar is a standard fretboard so you should be able to. Just take your time and don’t rush things.

[@Donking-g9h]

I am going to try the jumping up and down and see how that goes.