The Dance Of The Dragons Wouldn't Have Happened Without Viserys Targaryen

[@Sleepingkitty]

Viserys refusing to let people know the daughter they married to him wouldn't make their grandson a king was so dumb. Corlys would have yanked that offer of Laena right back if he had known that

[@whensomethingcriesagain]

Well either that or Rhaenyra might've met a faceless doom at some point in the ensuing years

[@Bwans_Art]

It's crazy to think that there's so many people who don't realize that the Dance was 80% Viserys' fault? Like, they blame Alicent for misinterpreting a dying man's words because the Targaryens have the creativity of a 5 year old when it comes to naming their children, they blame Otto for essentially coaxing his daughter to "seduce" the king (which is really creepy let's be real here) and spreading his poison everywhere, but not Viserys, the guy who could have prevented all of that if he just had made things clear? Who could've stopped fathering children? Who could've, idk, NOT married his daughter's best friend??? I feel like people are so in love with Rhaenyra and Daemon and are so focused on hating the Greens that they forget this war started before Greens and Blacks even existed

[@sergio2174-x8e]

Viserys is the true reason for the fall of House Targaryen and the extinction of the dragons. Every credit that Viserys had during his reign was inherited from his grandfather. He named his daughter heir but never did anything concrete to strengthen his position in the eyes of the kingdom and instead went to great lengths to compromise her to father three male heirs believing that they would not be a threat to Rheanyra's claim and forced her to marry a known homosexual forcing her to find another way to have heirs made her stay on Dragonstone allowing the Greens to increase their power in King's Landing. Viserys was convinced that it was enough to make the lords say a few nice words to ensure their loyalty to Rheanyra but the concepts of oath honor law are worth nothing to the lords they consider them valid only when it suits them the only thing that interests them is to see who makes him the best offer. Viserys should not have remarried, he should have filled the court with people loyal only to Rheanyra and then he should have annulled Daemon's marriage to Rhea and made him marry Rheanyra immediately, then he should have promised their children to some important house so as to ensure his daughter support end of story. They called Aemond Kinslayer but that title belongs only to Viserys because it was his negligence that killed all of his children and most of his grandchildren leaving one of the latter broken and traumatized for the rest of his days. The dance could have been avoided in any way but Viserys preferred to throw the dust under the carpet hoping that everything would be resolved on its own, a truly idiotic thought. For these reasons I will continue to consider Viserys the worst king in the history of Westeros, even worse than people of the caliber of Aegon VI and Aerys II.

[@markomarjanovic7643]

Viserys is one giant plot hole. Nobody can be that dumb.

[@KateeAngel]

Well, judging by history, they can. People absolutely can be THAT dumb

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

​@@KateeAngeloh yeah retardation is a part of the human condition no matter how much we want to believe otherwise

[@fightingmedialounge519]

I mean there's cersei.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

8:31 I wouldn't say that was bad idea considering his own hitoy should teach that your intended heir doesnt always end up on the throne. His real mistake was having kids with a powerful house.

[@Black_pearl_adrift]

No matter what at least we can all agree that Paddy Considine is an excellent actor and played the hell out of that role

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

He took a couple of sentences and made them into an unforgettable character, full of pain and pathos. His idea that Vizzy T's entire life hinged on Aemma's death, and that he spent the rest of his life punishing himself for that horrible act, turned his character into one that we could feel for, rather than simply despise. Another wonderfully murky grey character, full of human flaws, in classic ASOIAF style. Hats off to Paddy!

[@angrynerdgirl]

Not sure if this is mentioned in the video (I just started it), but iirc even GRRM said Paddy elevated the character into far beyond what he imagined when he wrote him. Pretty sure he's only said that about Viserys and Osha. And to think before this, I only knew Paddy from Hot Fuzz!

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

@@angrynerdgirl He also said that Paddy's performance made him want to tear up and rewrite that part of Fire and Blood, because he'd added so much more depth and humanity to the character of Viserys. Funny, I'd completely forgotten that he was in Hot Fuzz! That movie's definitely worth a rewatch. For the greater good!

[@michaelnkomphela8231]

Pain? For cutting his son out of his wife? 😂😂😂😂😂😂​@@thing_under_the_stairs

[@michaelnkomphela8231]

​@@thing_under_the_stairsumm you are f***** boring. Don't post.

[@Mj_Jetson]

My absolute favorite omg-Viserys-you-idiot quote from the book is: "The governance of the realm was a daunting task; the king needed a strong, capable Hand to shoulder some of his burdens. Briefly he considered sending for Princess Rhaenyra. Who better to rule with him than the daughter he meant to succeed him on the Iron Throne? But that would have meant bringing the princess and her sons back to King’s Landing, where more conflict with the queen and her own brood would have been inevitable." ... like, yeah Viserys, that's gonna be a problem. But don't you think that's going to be a real big problem when it comes time for Rhaenyra to inherit? You're not going to address that?

[@HillsAliveYT]

LOL facts, like you're really kicking the can down the road on that one broseph.

[@williamjusino3640]

Just send Alicent and her boys on a tour for like six-twelve months while Rhaenyra begins as Hand. The boys can meet and train with famous knights or whatever.

[@Dell-ol6hb]

@@williamjusino3640 that's probably not a good idea either you don't want potential rivals for the throne gaining political support by mingling with the lords of the realm

[@twigsno]

@@williamjusino3640 this is viserys-level thinking. what viserys had to do was formalize rhaenyra's status as heir. he didn't, and the dance happened. doing anything else would be sticking a bandaid over a gaping wound.

[@d0minican0milan0]

100% this....Not having Rhaenyra there at Kings Landing as hand during his last period of life was beyond stupid.

[@normtrooper4392]

It's so strange that people are willing to forgive a lifetime of equivocation and indecision, just because Paddy put on an amazing performance for the end of his life. The actors of this show really do a lot but I feel like it masks the actual reality of the characters and their actions. Like Charles dance made tywin lannister seem like a suave evil mastermind when he was an uncouth bully.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah, regardless of any other failings, the Thrones-verse has always served when it comes to casting, it's hard to think of an actor who didn't actually elevate their character beyond their book counterpart.

[@thedemonhater7748]

This is actually an amazing example, goddamn. People seem to genuinely buy the illusion of Tywin being a highly competent, pragmatic, ruthless leader rather than the ego driven monster he actually was.

[@addickland5656]

@@thedemonhater7748 Thing is, you could make a decent argument that in the show, he very much is the former, since they deleted some of his more villainous moments and actions that in the books made him very much the latter. I don't really mind since to me the book story is too blatantly "let's screw the obvious good guys, the Starks, at the hands of the obvious bad guys, the Lannisters". The show doesn't flip it around or anything, but it is not quite so black-white as the books are. Which I think is for the better, though you very much could critisize it for telling a different story as a result. And the less said about D&D's motivations the better.

[@donttalktomebye]

People have poor media comprehension. I am sometimes one of them, but at least i know that and keep my mouth shut lol

[@ratgirl34]

@@donttalktomebye I know that and still can’t keep my mouth shut. Hats off to you.

[@lovelyrae9458]

People blame Otto, Alicent, Rhaenyra, Daemon, Aegon, etc. Literally, all of these problems stem form him. Aegon only exists because of Viserys. Alicent is only queen because of Viserys. Daemon was wild, reckless, and disrespectful because Viserys allowed him to be. Rhaenyra is irresponsible and incompetent because of Viserys. Otto is Hand of the King and has much influence because of Viserys. Ambition wasn't the sole problem. Viserys' incompetence as a father, husband, and king put everyone in grave danger over his own wants.

[@mixkid3362]

Viserys was the Targs version of Robert. A lazy, incompetent, apathetic and just loser king and man. Allowed corruption to fester in his court and city. People say that Viserys couldn't reject the Hand because it would be dangerous, but Jahaerys at 14 had the stones to tell Baratheon his Hand where to get off.

[@TheDream6842]

Seeing Viserys' condition in the thumbnail made me thinking of Lord Beesburry in ep.9: "The king was feeling very well yesterday" That dude is so dumb🤦

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah I don't want to justify homicide but I don't blame Criston for slapping the shit out of him for that comment alone.

[@EmmaSoyer72]

​@@HillsAliveYT I second this thought😂

[@durrangodsgrief6503]

​@@HillsAliveYT Viserys: a literal living corpse 10 seconds away from dying after supporting rhaenyra after she abandoned him for 6 years Beesbury: it's you tall killed him obviously

[@khfan4life365]

I remember my reaction when I first heard that. I said out loud “you’re a f**king idiot” to my tv. In what regard was Viserys in “well” condition? He literally looked like an extra from The Walking Dead. He was not “well”. He was high on pain meds. If anyone killed him at that point, it would have been a mercy kill.

[@hopeblueming8714]

Omg FINALLY! I hate this stupid and damaging character. Huge applause to the actor, his Viserys was so believable.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Hahaha yes I was so salty at Paddy, I came into HotD hating Viserys and was immediately like goddamnit, this guy is great.

[@TeH_Despot]

Don’t put disrespect on my boy’s name like that. He was a good King (definitely not great) surrounded by scheming snakes like Daemon, Otto, Alicent and Christian Cole. The hole house and realm tore themselves after his death and it could have been prevented, but none of the major players wanted peace.

[@ikram-258]

@@TeH_Despot if a king isn't capable of dealing with smart and ambitious people then he is not fit to rule.

[@Emma88178]

@TeH_Despot, if you're talking about the books then yes your description of those characters are accurate. But if you're talking about the show then you definitely weren't paying attention or haven't seen the other videos Hill's Alive has put out about the other characters.

[@hopeblueming8714]

@@TeH_Despot show Otto literally did a job of a great hand, his only fault was his honesty and Rhaenyra's incapability to not lust after her uncle, Alicent ruled the Realm, did everything she was capable of and was in fact a great mother (idk why everyone praises Rhaenyra's mothering, her eldest son aka the heir couldn't speak Valyrian properly or fight, almost like she didn't give an f about his education), Christon was a dutiful knight (practically r-ed by his boss Rhaenyra, btw) and Daemon was the danger everyone knew about. If Viserys isn't guilty of not controlling his brother, he's certainly responsible for not bringing up his daughter.

[@sardonically-inclined7645]

I feel you omitted that his neglect of his other children helped fuel the indifference/enmity between them and Rhaenyra, which is relevant considering they *all* have dragons. That, and that he never gave them a shared vision for the future that took each of them into account as individuals.

[@mariavi33]

Thank you!! I genuinely have no idea why so much of the fandom is bending over backward to defend this man. Sure, he stood up for Rhaenyra a couple of times, but that was only to protect her from the short-term consequences of her mistakes, which she might not have made if she had been properly prepared for her role, and it came at the cost of endangering his other children. He is arguably the one who has gained the most from Westeros’ misogyny, and he was abusive to both of his wives and his children, yet so many people are claiming that he was somehow a ‘feminist girldad’. I guess it isn't as ridiculous as the claim that Maegor the Cruel was somehow a feminist because he had a female heir, but that is hardly an actual accomplishment.

[@flowerpower1936]

Sometimes I think about Viserys' reaction to courting Laena and how initially it seems like he's disturbed by how young she is but then he goes on to marry and immediately impregnate Alicent who is only two years older than Laena and it's like oh... he just didn't want to wait those two years😬

[@Historyandlegends789]

Or he didn’t want someone who wouldn’t bow to his wishes “truthfully”

[@Okkotsu86275]

Viserys the king of procrastination. Shout-out to Paddy Considine for an highly excellent performance.

[@adahharris943]

Thank you! I know a lot of people just love to blame Alicent for the Dance. But it was truly Viserys fault(not that other people don’t play a part but it’s mostly him). For literally everything you said in this video. He just loved to live in his own little world where everything is fine and well, and there’s no bad blood happening in his family. Despite him adding to fuel with some of the things he did. Like just not caring or not doing anything after Aemond(his own child) was mutilated, but deciding that yelling at him about an insult was a good way to handle it etc

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

As king his duty was to ensure Rhaenyra was prepared for the challenges facing her as a monarch and a ruler, but he didn't. He covered up and excused her actions despite them being extremely stupid in the long run.

[@diamondinmyeye6160]

Great video, but I think you're underselling the fact that Viserys demanded Rhaenyra be queen BECAUSE he blames himself for Aemma's death. He felt he needed a son at all costs before that and only changed his mind, pushed her forward, through guilt and trauma. He wasn't about to support a claim for her before that because it was what was expected. Obviously he was an idiot to father more children after that point, but it's certainly not true that he would have just stopped getting Aemma pregnant. And his main concern at the time was Daemon getting the throne as he was officially his successor.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Well it's interesting, because I actually don't think Daemon getting the throne was much of a concern to him, at least not as much as it should have been. He only seems to set Daemon aside when he's personally super pissed at him, plus because as you said, he feels super guilty about killing Aemma and wants to make it up to Rhaenyra.

[@diamondinmyeye6160]

@@HillsAliveYT I see what you mean about Daemon only getting focus in his mind when he was mad at him to an extent, but his desperation for a boy and Otto’s whispers certainly suggest he wanted to avoid Daemon succeeding him.

[@zawbones5198]

@@diamondinmyeye6160It probably also speaks to Otto’s fear of Daemon succeding Viserys, rather than an opinion from Viserys. I think Aegon’s prophecy also contributed to him wanting a son, to ensure the future of the Targaryen dynasty

[@twigsno]

@@zawbones5198 not just otto's fear - most nobles detested the idea of daemon inheriting because he was an irresponsible warmonger.

[@faaf4950]

Even if he blames himself, he should have told everyone that rhaenyra is heir whether he has other sons or not

[@sayyidf.b.6378]

Robert Baratheon and Aegon the Unworthy waisting their rule, drinking, and holding tourneys: "Put a shirt on." Viserys Targaryen waisting his rule, drinking and holding tourneys: "Powerful."

[@MissyJ]

Super underrated comment.

[@sayyidf.b.6378]

@@MissyJ Thank you. We need to have the "Viserys Targaryen was a terrible king and not a good guy" conversation.

[@lutilda]

I think he only ever cared about Aemma- not Rhaenrya herself, just as Aemma's daughter. He desperately wanted Aemma's son to succeed him. When that wasnt possible, he settled for Rhaenrya. But didnt do anything to help prepare her or set her up for success

[@mochalotte4702]

God what an awful reason to endorse someone to succeed you. Viserys was such a delusional simp that thousands including his own children, grandchildren, brother, and cousin died because of it. Wish more people in the fandom would acknowledge how mediocre-bad of a king he was instead of praising him because of his blind love for only one of his children.

[@kekero540]

Viserys comes off as the type of manager who desperately wants to come off as friendly while letting bad employees walk all over them. They have certain lines but will bark and never bite when those lines are crossed. The reason why Daemon kills Vaemon is because he knew his brother wouldn’t commit to killing Vaemon so did it himself in a weird legal situation because of Westerosi honor codes.

[@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs.]

Paddy Considine (awesome name) made you like the character, likewise Iain Glen made you like the traitorous slaver Jorah Mormont, and I'll admit Harry Lloyd made me sympathise with Viserys Targaryen a lot more than anything he ever said or did warranted. A good actor can do that.

[@princetonginger2001]

Definitely agree. The three ways I can think of that Viserys could have gone to prevent the dance and secured the safety of the realm and also the lives of the ones he supposedly loved. One, which you talked about, is not remarrying and focusing on Rhaenyra’s marriage prospects so she could have heirs of her own. Two, as gross as it is, he could have betrothed Rhaenyra and Aegon so his two eldest children and the ‘rivals’ for the throne would have been joined as one. Three, and the most obvious one I think, disinherit Rhaenyra no matter how much she whines and name Aegon as the heir like everyone was expecting him to do. It doesn’t matter how Rhaenyra would have felt, she and her children would have been safe in the long run and his other children and their future families would have been safe as well.

[@ely_sky]

the thumbnail is so good💀 always here for viserys slander

[@HillsAliveYT]

LMFAO I'm glad you like it! I'm always iffy about using wordy references in thumbnails, but this meme pops into my head every time I think about Vizzy T.

[@jjosifovic]

It’s very simple what he should have done …..DISINHERIT Rhaenyra. 3 bastards in 10 years then she marries Daemon…..the dance only happens because people swore oaths without the oaths she literally has nothing lol

[@Mj_Jetson]

Rhaenyra has dragons - far more dragons than the Greens. Even though the Greens have their Vhagar trump card... Vhagar is slow, and can be in only 1 place at once.

[@jjosifovic]

@@Mj_Jetson dragons wont protect her from assassination attempts. N yet she lost the war when all the dragons died while the greens had 4 in reality 3(helena never rode hers into battle)

[@Mj_Jetson]

@@jjosifovic Rhaenyra lost the war, true, but can you really say that Aegon won? As for assassination attempts... I suppose it depends how you define an assassination attempt, but I count 1 attempt against Rhaenyra, and it fails due to her super loyal kingsguard. (are there more - did I forget any? Do you count Hugh Hammer and Ulf the White?) Compared to the Greens... they are absolutely decimated by assassinations: 2 or possibly 4 of the Hightower-Targaryens are killed this way (Jaehaerys, Aegon, and possibly Helaena and Jaehaera, though she dies later). The Greens have a lot of advantages, true (they find out about Viserys' death first; they have a more public coronation with lots more symbols of legitimacy; initial control of the capital; the Crown coffers; the biggest dragon, etc.) but the fight ends up pretty evenly split - that's ultimately that's why the war is so bloody, and kills off nearly all the dragons.

[@jjosifovic]

@@Mj_Jetson the thing is though when I see how the war played out i still cant believe how the greens destroyed the blacks.... like u said the blacks had more dragons but house targaryen was crippled. To me I believe the greens won because Rhaenyra was never acknowledged as queen by her future bloodlines, she changed no culture, no women sat on the iron throne by the choice between the houses of westeros.

[@HeroicDreams]

I'm not supporting rhaenyra having bastards (nor am I saying it was wrong of her to do so though), but realistically what was she supposed to do? Her husband was VERY gay and frankly she didn't fancy repeatedly violating her husband just to have legitimate children. It had even been mentioned that laenor and her TRIED and laenor couldn't do it. Side note: Viserys really should have considered the homosexual rumors about laenor when marrying rhaenyra to him. This is not me trying to start a debate I just want to hear others opinions

[@davidduran6163]

The greens are not a problem, as they are everything a Westerosi family should be. The problem is the blacks, with a princess named heir against all the rules, a bastard in the line of succession and a bloodthirsty maniac who guarantees a bloodbath for Westeros. Disputes occurring between eldest daughters and heirs in 6 kingdoms would have been inevitable and even the descendants of these daughters would have been able to make a claim. It's not that Viserys wasn't taught to rule, it's that he was so determined to see Aemma Arryn's blood on the throne that he didn't care about anything else. No matter how illegitimate that line was and whether it was the best for Westeros or not.

[@faaf4950]

Even prophecy told him to name his son, heir😂

[@parsashojaei1352]

Thank you!!!!!

[@mixkid3362]

I hate Viserys. This man did nothing to mend the division at court happening right in front of his face. His disgusting levels of bias towards Rhaenyra and her basterds. He sucks.

[@barch118]

He’s the absolute worst. He basically poured a puddle of gasoline and left a lit match next to it.

[@Mj_Jetson]

About Rhaenyra living on Dragonstone for the final years of Viserys' reign, its such a political misstep... its so clear that the writers for the show saw it as a misstep, and tried so hard to justify it, and gave Rhaenyra such a hilariously bad rationale. Realistically, GRRM probably wanted Rhaenyra to start on Dragonstone as a parallel to Daenerys being on Dragonstone during her war with fAegon in TWoW/ADoS (and maybe Rhaenyra having her pregnancy end terribly and the king dying is a parallel to Dany at the end of AGoT and Rhaella at the end of Robert's Rebellion?), and wanted a Green coup to start to war, which meant that Rhaenyra had to be on Dragonstone when Viserys died, even if it made little sense. GRRM was rushed when finishing The Rogue Prince, so he was a bit sloppy getting the pieces into position for the Dance... plus GRRM wrote The Princess and the Queen first, so painted himself into a corner with how the Dance started, maybe didn't think everything through and was undecided how much of the Dance to retcon... I just keep thinking, did Rhaenyra not expect the Greens to do a coup or something??? (Since F&B quotes Aegon as expecting Rhaenyra to be queen when Viserys died, maybe GRRM intended for Otto's coup plans to be obvious only in hindsight? Then again, at the same time as that Aegon quote, Aemond seemed to anticipate a Green coup...) Realistically, I think Rhaenyra should've had someone representing her at Court if she wasn't going to be there herself (more than just Beesbury), and to ensure that to ensure that the Greens didn't try to take her representative hostage like they tried with Rhaenys in the show, Viserys should've sent Daeron and/or little Jaehaerys to Dragonstone as Rhaenyra's ward. The fact that he didn't, though... yes its stupid of Viserys, but I think its mostly just sloppy writing from GRRM?

[@adapienkowska2605]

'and wanted a Green coup to start to war, which meant that Rhaenyra had to be on Dragonstone when Viserys died, even if it made little sense' but there is a very easy solution to this, that doesn't involve Rhaenyra living there the last few YEARS before the dance. She could be there only because she was at the end of her pregnancy and wanted the children to be born on Dragonstone and some quiet. There is too much of it, to be just sloppy writing. So either most of the story is somehow wrong and not a real history of the Westeros, or Rhaenyra and Viserys were rather politically inept.

[@Emma88178]

Agree! Except the idea that Aegon isn't real. That is such a convoluted theory and I hope he is real.

[@9xprincess]

Remember in the books Viserys is ageing but he isn't slowly dying. In medieval times it was common for women to have a confinement/lying in period before and after birth. So its reasonable in the books that Rhaenyra could have temporarily retired to Dragonstone for the birth of Visenya. It just so happened that Viserys died during that period and the Greens took their chance to act. In the show its Rhaenyra being politically incompetent and avoidant which is in line with her character.

[@Mj_Jetson]

@@9xprincess In the book, Rhaenyra isn't temporarily retired on Dragonstone, is she? She's been living there for years. In 120, Viserys' reasoning for not making Rhaenyra Hand: "But that would have meant bringing the princess and her sons back to King’s Landing, where more conflict with the queen and her own brood would have been inevitable." In 127, when Viserys cuts his hand: "Only the arrival of Princess Rhaenyra from Dragonstone turned the tide, for with her came her own healer, Maester Gerardys, who acted swiftly to remove two fingers from His Grace’s hand to save his life." And after the feast with the Strong Boys Toast incident: "Princess Rhaenyra and her sons returned to their own seat on Dragonstone the next morning." Book-Viserys is also slowly dying? In 127: "After the loss of his fingers, Viserys I never sat upon the Iron Throne again. Thereafter he shunned the throne room, preferring to hold court in his solar, and later in his bedchamber, surrounded by maesters, septons". Even if he lived another decade, he's barely seen in public, his advisors are Beesbury and a bunch of Green supporters - the Greens have effectively already done a coup. Why would Rhaenyra sit on Dragonstone for years and just let that happen? Something as simple as getting Viserys to send her Daeron and/or Jaehaerys/Jaehaera as warsd would have completely changed the power dynamic, wouldn't it? Perhaps even have prevented the war?

[@alanaatkinson551]

The Targaryens' downfall after Aegon I was their superiority complex, ultimately destroying them. Every single Targaryen as well as Valaryians treated everyone around them as outsiders and inferior to them. If Viserys, Daemond and Rhaenyra didn't treated Alicent so coldy then she would've supported Rhaenyra. As for Daemond, he had no reason to despise her.

[@princenadroj9766]

I agree, part of what I liked about kings like Jaehaerys the first, Aegon the Conqueror, and Daeron the Good was that they concentrated more on integrating with Westerosi society, and being more politically astute rather than relying solely on Targaryen superiority or in the case of Jahaerys and Aegon, the use of dragonfire.

[@Emma88178]

Disagree that Alicent would have supported Rhaenyra's claim because she still had to think of her children and the danger they could be in. Even if Rhaenyra never wanted to harm her siblings, Alicent knew what Daemon was capable of. She couldn't take that risk. It would have been dumb of Alicent to support her over her own son.

[@Emma88178]

Daeron the good, YES he truly did seem to be good. Argon and Jaehaerys on the other hand.... Aegon killed hundreds of thousands of people in order to invade and conquer a land he had no business subjugating. And Jaehaerys was a misogynistic narcissist who treated his wife and daughters horribly and created the doctrine of exceptionalism just so he could show Westeros that Targs/Valryian people are superior to all other humans.

[@princenadroj9766]

@@Emma88178 yeah, Daeron’s probably my favorite of the Targaryen kings, as he was able to successfully incorporate Dorne (with the extinction of the dragons) into the seven kingdoms and took a more diplomatic approach to ruling. It’s interesting how when the Targaryens had to act more or less like the nobility of Westeros (ie.relying on alliances and diplomacy) in order to ensure the kingdom’s loyalty as opposed to using their dragons, their dominance over Westeros starts to decline.

[@janellejulianajoy]

Are you serious? Why would they want to like her? She's a puppet for her father, in the book and show. On the show, she manifests this outrage against Rhaenyra though they were besties. She's outraged, yet, she's plotting to wed said besties FATHER. In the book, Alicent is full on power hungry. So, why would Rhaenyra or Daemon like a woman actively seeking to undermine what rightfully belongs to house TARGARYEN not Hightower? Rhaenyra was chosen as heir and it should've ended there. Rhaenyra nor Daemon created that discourse as that came directly from Otto and Alicent. They didn't owe this lady anything.

[@Methus3lah]

It’s crazy how I didn’t even consider the fact he didn’t have to marry again. Or even if he did, he didn’t really have to consummate it. This man destroyed his family with the power of being a perv

[@user-ti5cw1ug6l]

Otto would've supported any son Viserys had over Rhaenyra even if it wasn't his grandson. That is a fact. He saw the the obvious problems that would arise from the directly competing claims. Even though Daemon was the only one who really wanted the war he isn't the root cause either. The reality is that it's Viserys's fault like you say. He propped up Rhaenyra's otherwise non exisitent claim to compete with the sons he sired (Whose claims were automatic). If any other king were in his position there wouldn't be a war because they would make the obvious choice, the greater guarentee of stability in the realm over conscience. You can't even say that Viserys did any of this for liberal reasons because he really only just wanted Aemma's descendants on the throne. If Aegon were Aemma's he would be heir no question. The fact that he say he loves everyone equally even though he really doesn't just shows how shallow he is. Also, he didn't really have proof Rhaenyra was the chosen one. No dreams, nothing. He named her on a whim out of wishful thinking even though he says he didn't. The Blacks knowing the prophecy thing wasn't in the books so the show literally added it to make you support the blacks more. Though, later Targaryens were the prophecy side as well but Ronert and Ned were still justified but I digress. Anyway Viserys is the the historian king but clearly learned the least of history's lessons ironically. This man was absolutely carried by his predecessor's reign and better statesmen like Otto and Lyonel. What an oaf! The reason why Jaehaerys I's succession worked is because it gave his successor something other the king's mere naming to support their absolute right to the throne. Also, this choice lined up with the precedent of Jaehaerys himself ascending over Aerea. The reason why it's so important to only use one metric, one type of succession rule, and apply it consistently is so different claimants can't claim the throne with completely different metrics (such as heir by customs/precedent vs named heir). Yes, keeping Rhaenyra as heir was the first critical mistake. However, an even bigger problem is that after he names Rhaenyra and commits to her (on a whim) he doesn't really do anything to secure her reign either as so many problems start coming up for her. Thoughout his reign, so many problems in the royal family and succession come up like the birth of his three sons and Rhaenyra birthing and trying to pass of illegitimate children as legitimate and Viserys doesn't do anythin which fueled the hatred of the sides even more. There was an obvious solution in Rhaenyra marrying Aegon but that wasn't considered. He and Laenor were the only real choices for Rhaenyra as they had their own claims to the throne to merge with and strengthen her but of the two Viserys picks the one everyone suspected could give Rhaenyra children.

[@thesahel7218]

I think Viserys would have benefitted from having an Alysanne or a Barth. Jaehaerys having Septon Barth and Alyssane was a huge factor in the success of his reign. These people could give him completely unbiased advice and he could even trust them with important matters of state when he was busy. Viserys came into power without an inner circle of his own, everyone around him wanted something. Corlys, Daemon and Otto all have massive personal ambitions for themselves and their houses. Every decision Viserys makes as King is a reaction to one of these guys' ambitions. Viserys could have had his Alysanne but he sacrificed Aemma for a male heir.

[@femalegays]

there's also the fact that alicent could've been an alysanne if viserys actually listened to her. even in the books, where people say she's her most self serving, she suggested rhaenyra and aegon to marry

[@OcarinaSapphr-]

The show sort of implies that he briefly had a 'Barth' of a kind, in Lord Strong- I don't recall how in-line with the books that is, beyond him saying 'This Hand will not hector me'- as in, he won't be constantly pressuring Viserys towards Hightower/ Alicent favouritism - I believe show-Viserys genuinely liked Lord Strong as his advisor, & later Hand-- not just; he didn't change his advisors any more than he could help, because Viserys didn't like change, but he elevated Lord Lyonel because he wasn't self-interested the way Otto (rather obviously- even to the usually willfully oblivious Viserys) was. He advised what was in the best interest of the realm- he didn't try & promote his own son as a match for Rhaenyra, but worked towards healing the breach between the two families. Neither man's perfect- but Lyonel was the kind of Hand he needed, & to be honest- the best available, from the extant Small Council pool.

[@dominiquedoeslife]

Viserys as a character is the definition of benevolent sexism. Well done on the video bb.

[@eren__morwen5947]

havent even finished the video and i already agree. Before the time skip in the show, i was full Black supporter, but after it i realised Viserys AND Rheanyra brought everything on themselves and Greens always did what they most realistically had to to ensure success of them and the kingdom.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Agreed, obviously I've been a Green fan from the jump, but I can recognize that Rhaenyra's claim shouldn't be set aside for no reason, but the problem is that neither she or Viserys did anything to actually prepare for her to become queen and they really left the Greens pissing in the wind. It was just pure foolishness to expect that a bunch of HIGHTOWERS would sit around doing nothing while the king sticks them in an untenable political situation for years.

[@pckrichards7980]

Same. People can go on and on about Vizzy Ts wishes, but at the end of the day, the Geeens couldn’t treat Rhaenyra and were fighting for their lives

[@karolinaa3944]

This made me think back to your Ned Stark video, in a way their flaws are similar, both are so in their own heads they are ignorant of wider consequences, neither are bad people on purpose but they are wilfully ignorant and in their positions it truly matters

[@adapienkowska2605]

Ned Stark is far better than Viserys is. He makes stupid decisions not on personal whims, ambitions or vendettas, but because he wants to be moral in a society that is immoral.

[@karolinaa3944]

@@adapienkowska2605 you could say that, but he is also going by his version of morality, like Viserys he is stuck in his own ways and refuses to see anything else, what morality was there in keeping Jon's parentage from Catelyn leading to Jon having to grow up in an environment where he felt unwelcome? All because of a promise? It's a complex situation and I see why you'd think he was a better man, maybe he is, but all I meant in the comparison was that they similarly dont care to engage with the politics of their world and stick to their own ways even when it has bad consequences for the people around them

[@adapienkowska2605]

​@@karolinaa3944 no, not even a little bit. Viserys didn't follow the morality of the time he lived in. Ned did. Ned being stupidly 'honourable' was the main point in the books. He was a better man, because the things he did, while might be questionable, had been done not for personal reason. He kept from Catelyn the information about Jon's parentage, not because she upset him, or they were arguing (and that's how Viserys operated most of the time), but because he felt he shouldn't. Ned cared about his children.

[@karolinaa3944]

​@@adapienkowska2605 "because he felt he shouldn't" is exactly what I mean when I say his own version of morality, there was nothing moral about keeping the secret from his wife who was immediately slighted (both in her status and personal feelings) by him bringing a bastard back from war, him not considering her in the situation at all was not honourable or moral, he likely did not even consider her at the time (quite like Viserys does not consider the people around him), Lyanna did not tell him to adopt the boy as his own he chose that and did not consider the impact it would have on his family. While I don't like defending Viserys and obviously his actions are on a different scale you can argue that all he did with his wife and even having children with Alicent was so that the apocalypse from the prophecy he was so obsessed with would eventually be stopped - you could argue that's honourable in a way, it doesn't really make it so. Also, you can argue Viserys was neglectful of his later kids but you cannot tell me he did not love Rhaenyra. Again though, I totally agree they are in very different situations and very different people, all I was saying is some of the points in this video made me think of points from the Ned Stark video which I agreed with, it's okay if you don't, it's all up for interpretation anyway

[@adapienkowska2605]

@@karolinaa3944 you are nitpicking. He felt he should do to follow the code he was taught. You are judging it from your morality, not theirs. For them, it was moral to keep promises. There was no way in which he could prevent her status being slighted without giving up on Jon. Their moral code didn't care about personal feelings. We have no idea what Lyanna said to him. Claiming Jon as his own bastard son was the safest way to keep the boy safe. You once again make up some kind of moral code they didn't follow. The conduct expected from king didn't include preventing maybe apocalypses (and this is only film idea). He was expected to prepare a future ruler, to keep the country united, to pray and venerate Gods, produce children and heirs. From our perspective, what he did to Aemma was immoral and cruel, but not exactly from theirs. Viserys made most decisions because somebody upset him - he declared Rhaenyra an heir because Daemon mocked his dead son, not because his brother was violent and unfit to rule, didn't prepare his daughter to rule because he didn't want to deal with his family arguing. He was an opposite of Ned. Ned did what the society expected him to do. That was both his flaw and his virtue. Viserys did not do what his society expected from him.

[@Suddmoney]

Viserys also allowed Rhaenys’ children by Corlys (aka House Velaryon) to bond dragons. Regardless of how close the two were, allowing any other family access to your most valuable resource is a huge mistake with dire ramifications.

[@TimeandMonotony]

Love to see people acknowledging what a bad king and a bad person Viserys was! I think most of the sympathy for him comes from Paddy's excellent performance. Also thumbnail made me lose it. xD

[@Elliot226]

I will never understand his logic of "MY HALF-BLOOD RELATED CHILDREN GETTING MARRIED? OTTO UR GROSS!" then almost immediately after "Now my FULL BLOODED CHILDREN - hell yes, obviously." It baffles me to no end and I can't get past it. Glidus was the only one who made any kind of sound argument - that being that by the time Aegon was of age, Rhaeynera would be nearing the end of her child birthing years. I still don't agree 100%, but at least it is a logical counterpoint

[@DiarrheaIsUnbreakable]

People say that he's a bad king but a good man. Yet even that assessment of his character is debatable, because Viserys is shown to be as much of a flawed man, if not moreso, as he is as a king. The guy blatantly favours Rhaenyra while neglecting Alicent's children, ignorant about Alicent's personal issues, and threatens to punish those who question his grandsons' heritage even when the truth is practically laid out in front of him. But I still enjoy his character in the show because his flaws add a layer of depth and tragedy to him that his book counterpart lacks, not to mention Paddy's incredible performance.

[@audrey2181]

I don't understand why people believe him to be a good man. He chose to put his wife through excruciating pain before ultimatly killing her for the sake of a potential heir. This is not the desision of a good man. To me, from the begining to the end he was a bad king and a bad man. That's is weakness that make people believe he was good.

[@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs.]

I thought the same about Jorah Mormont in Game of Thrones. If he was played by an actor who didn't have Iain Glen's rugged looks and underwear-moistening voice, would people realise he betrayed literally everyone he ever claimed to support, was a slaver, etc and was not a remotely good person?

[@DiarrheaIsUnbreakable]

@@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs. I think it helps that the show omitted out some of his creepier scenes in the books

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

@@Sir_Gerald_Nosehairs. I was just having this discussion about Jorah Mormont with some friends! If he'd been cast to look like he does in the books, people would be far more likely to realise that he's basically Ser Incel, and also remember the whole slavery issue that landed him in exile and his father at the Wall in the first place!

[@DominionSorcerer]

@@thing_under_the_stairs fair, but Jeor had already abdicated his position as Lord of Bear Island and joined the Night's Watch years before Robert's Rebellion even began. Jorah selling poachers to slavers had nothing to do with it.

[@ericcolon-wn6eu]

I mean, with the mortality rate within the story it did make sense for Viserys to have more kids, at least to have a spare heir in case something happened to Rhaenyra. Especially after what happened with Jaeherys and Allysane’s kids

[@gennaronarducci1333]

Then he could have found a husband for Rhaenyra and make her have heirs almost immediately if that's was the issue

[@fightingmedialounge519]

​@@gennaronarducci1333 that runs the risk of her dying.

[@-AwaleAbdi-]

Him marrying Alicent if he really intended to keep Rhaenyra as his heir makes absolutely no sense. I mean, you could argue it was beneficial to produce more heirs in case something hapened to her and to produce more dragonriders but is that really worth the powder keg he was clearly creating by siring a male heir? In the end, Vizzy T got to be as memorable as he wanted to be. He will be remembered as the Targaryen King who basically destroyed the dynasty at its zenith.

[@HillsAliveYT]

Exactly, like keep Rhaenyra as your heir and don’t have sons or have sons and don’t have Rhaenyra as your heir, you can’t have both and expect shit to not get crazy.

[@lakaperse6995]

Unfortunately , the blame fell on Alicent and Rhaenyra .

[@Mic-Mak]

Happy New Year to Hill and all her fans! Oof! What an indictment of Viserys! Fantastic as always, and yes, Vizzy T could have definitely avoided the Dance with better political maneuvers. You've made an excellent case for how and briliantly demonstrated that had he taken precautions at the earlier, the more probable his success would be. Starting with not getting married to anyone and not having any children after Rhaenyra. I would even go further and say that after multiple unsuccessful pregnancies, Viserys should have stopped trying to have kids with Aemma to avoid the one that killer her. I think she could have played a positive role in steering him in the right direction and groom Rhaenyra for rule.

[@jordyn.dos_reis]

Clicked for the thumbnail. Hate Viserys above all else in the ASOIAF universe.

[@jjh2456]

Yeah man. If you wanna blame anybody, you gotta start with Viserys. That dude was just incompetent as hell.

[@ZorcTheDarkOnex]

Once again referring to star wars, i feel like the dance would have been an eventuality. The Jahaerys Targaryen equivalent of the Sith Empire was Marka Ragnos who lived until he died of old age(which is VERY RARE for sith). And as soon as he died, i kid you not, the two contending sith lords, dueled each other AT HIS FUNERAL for control over the empire LOL. My point is, even if Viserys did everything right, i feel like at some point infighting was just inevitable. Who's to say long after Rhaenyra was gone, some tough guy or girl wouldn't think "my dragon is bigger, i should be king/queen". I'm not as well versed in the lore as you are though, so please don't flame me for it. :C

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah agreed, when you're dealing with a bunch of people with superpowers it's a guarantee that at some point someone will make a play for the throne.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

The sith do operate primarily by strength so not the same as jaehareys empire.

[@temitopeosasona398]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees that Viserys I Targaryen as the first that caused this war in the first place.... A lot of people see him a good dad just because he defended Rhaenyra's and her children's claim from his death bed when it was basically too late and the dye had been casted already.... I love Paddy but i absolutely hate Viserys and see him as the cause of most the problems that would have been avoidable in the first place....He is a shit dad, a shit husband and a shit king

[@chrisanderson7258]

I know we can all agree that viserys isn't worthy to be a king, but is Rhaenys worthy? I mean, in the show, she doesn't actually show any traits of being a good queen. She let Corlys walk all over her. She even accepted obvious bastards as her grandkids even though they're not. She actively participates in placing a bastard on the Driftmark throne despite not having any blood ties with the Velaryon's. That's treason, btw. She's not even politically savvy either. Let's not forget that she's actively siding with the people who "killed" her son. So is she actually worthy?

[@jostockton.]

You're blaming Rhaenys for Corlys' choices.

[@chrisanderson7258]

@@jostockton. Uh no all I'm saying is that they are Corly's choices and despite being against them she follows them anyway. Even if those decisions are a detriment to their children. What would happen if she became queen would Corlys be the power behind the throne?

[@jt7638]

Imagine Viserys commissioning annual festivals paying homage to the Long Night, and the threat of the White Walkers and promotion of the legends and history and historical scholarship of how the White Walkers were beaten. You know, to do something to be actually ready against an apocalyptic scale event.

[@OurHiltsHurt]

The thumbnail quote 💯👌

[@pokepal27]

Honestly I've thought about how the dance could have been prevented, either with viserys or Jaehaerys. The old king could have prevented all of this by marrying Rhaenys to Viserys. They are roughly the same age and visery already married a first cousin. It blows my mind that Alyssane didn't arrange this marriage. The kings two eldest grandchildren in a family that practices incest didn't marry each other? But the eldest male grandchild marries his other first cousin who wasn't even of age? How does that make sense.

[@gennaronarducci1333]

Also because even if Vis still became king, Rhaenys would have be a good consort queen, i can see her suggesting Vis about politics and warning him about Otto

[@Aiffam1]

@@gennaronarducci1333 Both Rhaenys and Viserys were married before Baelon and Aemon died. It was assumed that Aemon and Jocelyn would have more children, but he died young (37) and they didn't. Rheanys was even pregnant when her father died and her uncle was chosen as heir.

[@Sleepingkitty]

It’s especially weird they didn’t marry Viserys and Rhaenys when Aemond spent all those years without another kid. You think 12, 13, 14+ years into Aemon not having another kid would prompt old “Daenerys will be queen through her brother she can’t be my heir” Jaehaerys into promising Viserys and Rhaenys together to avoid Rhaenys being Aemon’s heir

[@lasloapollo4312]

I like how Viserys is the personification of Nice is not the same as Good. It shows that a monarch needs to be more agressive and voilent if they want to be a good ruler.

[@jorbo4044]

Its wild that your takeaway is that violence is the answer

[@lasloapollo4312]

@@jorbo4044 @@jorbo4044 Even Jaehaerys was a hothead when his daughter slept with multiple men he slaughtered them infront of her instead of just ignoring everything like Viserys did.

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

@@jorbo4044So the rest of Europe should have dealt with German aggression nonviolently in 1939? Do you also think that American slavery could have been ended nonviolently? Sometimes leaders have to make hard decisions when dealing with the vile acts of others. And those others don't care to listen to reason. It's distasteful, and most wars are unnecessary horrors, but when a regime is treating human beings as objects and acting as an aggressor it must be stopped.

[@davidduran6163]

The way Viserys I could have stopped the dance is by directly naming Aegon I his heir or by calling a great council to make the decision as Jaeharys I the Conciliator did. The reign of Viserys I is peaceful because it seemed that out of 10,000 lords, 9,800 supported him and that is why no one dared to challenge him. That astute decision of Jaeharys I, following the advice of his third son Vaegon, was what guaranteed decades of peace and it is to this conciliatory king who is truly owed all the good things about the reign of Viserys I such as the secure throne, the abundant treasure. , stable kingdom and a good number of dragons. Viserys I would never have achieved all this alone and without this he reaped a disaster worse than that of Aenys I, the council was not convened because he knew that Rhaenyra would lose.

[@QuinnFirstOfHerName]

It's a testament to how great Paddy Considine was in this role that anyone likes Viserys at all. Yes, he is a tragic figure who never wanted to be king and he does mean well. But dude married his teenage daughter's best friend like 6 months after he killed his first wife and then had 3(4 if Daeron exists on the show) children with her that he literally didn't even consider to be his kids, just spare sacks of meat in case his favorite one dies. He has zero concern for the danger his own sons will be in if Rhaenyra inherits, especially with her sons being obvious bastards whose claims will be doubly disputed and will inevitably have to crack down violently to secure their power. This man doomed his entire family and the realm because he was unable to deal with his own grief over the time he murdered his wife. And yet his walk to the throne still gets me. Paddy was seriously robbed by every single awards show.

[@joaoferreira3007]

Viserys was nice, not necessarily good, and he was for sure a idiot. If anything the only thing that made him the better candidate to the throne over daemon was because because Daemon were a violent man-child. In the shows he literally marriedthe best friend of his only child whose mother he killed for good sake, them he neglect his new wife after having 4 children with her while just ignoring the problems between Rhaenyra(and her bastards) and Alicent... he was a idiot who should've never becomed king.

[@Ilargizuri]

Great Video as always, thank you for your hard work. In my opinion, Viserys could have prevented the DotD if he hadn't been so naive and had accepted some Facts about life.

[@gennaronarducci1333]

Was wondering, but could you talk about the r*pe storyline in the serie and about how that affected Alicent and Aegon as characters?, i don't know but i think it could be interesting to understand the world building, the characters and their relationship between each other

[@williamjusino3640]

Insisting on retaining power while refusing to use it to protect the country is also a huge part of the dysfunction of American politics.

[@adamgoodrich9807]

Hills Alive this drives me crazy, Emma was going to die either way. Wither he had her cut open or not. This wasn’t a case of her or the child, it was a case of she’s going to die but we might be able to save the child. What they did was horrific, they should’ve told her what was going on but there was version of that where Emma lived.

[@dannyboy218]

I do hate that this man had like what, about 20 so years or so to change the laws to make a female heir own the crown. I forgot the type of succession law by name, but there are two: 1. Allows female heir to rule if there is no male heirs, 2. The oldest child rules the throne no matter the sex/gender (even if there is a male heir, but they are not the first born but their sister is then that male heir will not get the throne as long as the sister and her heirs live). I mean all the houses agreed to have his oldest daughter be the heir, so how hard would it be to make them help pass it as law in the 20 or so years he had before his death. Going off word alone is dumb in those times, yes I know the other houses and peasents can still rebel but with such a law being in place for 15-20 years I feel a vast majority of people would grew to and accept the idea.

[@MarkStorey-dc4tm]

Great video as always. You'd have a hard job convincing me that he deserved the title "the Cruel" more than Maegor did but Viserys' treatment of the Green side of his family doesn't look good. I think Viserys' priorities were shaped by his interest in Valyrian history. All the great houses were plotting complicated political games but then the Doom came. All that saved House Targaryen was paying attention to the right prophecy. I think this made him dismiss politics as unimportant. Of course, as you point out, even in those terms, his planning was terrible.

[@ayiza8511]

Of corse it would not have happened whit out Viserys he was the one that made his daughter his heir then stupidity remarried and fathered three sons. Sons the relam would expect to be in fron of Rhaenyra in the line of succession. If he had made Ageon his heir when he was born all the problems would have been over. Rhaenyra was not that attached to the title she had no bastards.. and Ageon could have Ben moulded in to a strong king

[@Anonymousringwraith]

If he didnt want to name Aegon heir outright, something every Targaryen King in history would have done at the very least marry Aegon and Rhaenyra.

[@silverprincess2642]

GIRL!!! You have a knack for uploading as i am about to sleep LOL 😂. I have never read the books so i can only go off the show. But i agree with something David Lightbringer said in one of his videos. "I Will not decide" would be Viserys's campaign slogan if he ran for office in our world. Honestly eveything i've learned so far about the books comes from You, Phoenix Ashes, Company of the Cat, Alt Shift x, and David Lightbringer

[@femalegays]

​@@hunteratopsan hour and 25 minute vid on hills alive because they didn't like that someone had a non positive view on dany's actions is crazy. not EVEN if i was getting paid, not even

[@HillsAliveYT]

I also have a knack for uploading as I am about to sleep 😭

[@Sam_Kings]

Good video. I think a lot of people overlook the flaws compelling or interesting characters, and Viserys is a compelling character despite his flaws. Which is helped a lot by the great job his actor did. In my opinion Viserys was a terrible king and the most at fault for the Dance occurring .

[@Mj_Jetson]

So the weird thing I don't get about the Dance is why it didn't happen a generation earlier... Viserys was a weak dragonless king. Why didn't Rhaenys try to take the throne when Jaehaerys died, or anytime really prior to the death of Aemma??? Rhaenys can out-dragon Viserys, especially if she drives a wedge between Daemon and Viserys that results in Viserys loosing the support of Caraxes... or just wait till Daemon and Caraxes are adventuring across the Narrow Sea, swoop in, have a bloodless coup, strongarm Viserys into agreeing to step down as king and becoming a captive at court; betroth Rhaenyra and Laenor - voila you've taken over. Or something like that. The fact that this didn't happen makes me think that Viserys believed that the risk of a civil war was tiny, like as a society, thanks to Jaehaerys they'd outgrown civil wars or something. So that's why he didn't seem to worry about it?

[@catkin1671]

I think it comes down to 2 things. 1) Rhaenys' personality and priorities. She just wasn't interested in putting her children at risk for something which she thought of as a useless pursuit of power and legacy (at least in the show). She wasn't choosing between the throne vs poverty or violence. She was choosing between an inevitably bloody conflict vs a very good life among one of the most powerful, respected and wealthy houses. 2) The whole point of the Great Council was to get the lords onboard with the decision and also why her coup would have been inevitably bloody. Sure, if the lords didn't play along she could burn them all but that would just ensure revolts for generations and there are lots of acts of a sabotage a vassal can do to make their leiges life miserable. Dragons can be killed and they can only be in one place at a time. If just a few of the kingdoms (and I think most of the kingdoms would rise up in the event of Rhaenys' coup) lead by Daemon revolt, she would be in serious trouble.

[@thisguy8106]

Maybe bc Rhaenys had integrity, and didn't want to be a kinslayer. And at the end of the day, the only people willing to have a Civil War, esp amongst one's family, are those that actually lust for the Throne (I.e. Alicent, Otto, Renly) whereas someone like Rhaenys and The Sea Snake may have wanted the Throne, and even believed it was hers by Rights, but were not willing to plunge the kingdom into such a terrible war just to get it. It takes a truly terrible person to do that, really.

[@thisguy8106]

​@@catkin1671I agree completely.

[@Mj_Jetson]

@@catkin1671 The issue with this is that Rhaenys does eventually go to war... but for Rhaenyra's claim, not her own. Why??? A Rhaenyra versus Aegon civil war involves far more dragons than a Viserys versus Rhaenys war would have, and therefore far greater devastation. Did Rhaenys idiotically stumble into too many marriage alliances with Rhaenyra's faction, without thinking that this would force her to join the war when the succession crisis inevitably arose? Did Rhaenys not realize that a succession crisis was likely? Rhaenys seems like such an intelligent character; I don't see how she'd make these miscalculations... it just makes no sense to me, in book or show. As for trying to neutralize Daemon, if Rhaenys had done a coup around when Viserys took the throne... you kick Daemon's nemesis Otto off the small council; you hold Viserys, Aemma and Rhaenyra hostage in the Red Keep, you let Daemon divorce Rhea Royce is that's what he wants, you support Daemon in adventuring or conquering the stepstones or whatever... once Laena bonded with Vhagar, the Velaryon faction should've been pretty unstoppable?

[@HillsAliveYT]

Yeah that's actually another video topic I've already added to the list, that the Dance didn't happen a generation earlier specifically because of Rhaenys. I actually think that her speech to Alicent is really interesting in this light, because in theory she could have seized the throne from Viserys but didn't.

[@LizbetNene]

The thing about the Paddy's performance is that... yeah, that's the point. It's a human tragedy. It's a very understandable human failing, and really it's the institution of hereditary power and the Targaryn sense of supremacy that warrants the criticism more than just, like, the concept of a dude being a bit indecisive.

[@derekclausen5332]

A thought occured to me do you think its possible his sickness was affecting his mind long before it started showing upon the rest of the body.

[@anthroposmetron4475]

Viserys was a complete political incompetent and the Dance is 100% due to him. Having Rhaenyra as his heir but politically marginalising her, at the same time as giving complete political centrality and empowerment to the family of his sons was only ever going to end one way. Not only was he a complete political failure, he was also a massive failure on the Others/Aegon Prophecy metric, because he significantly weakened the Targaryens and the Dance basically lead to the extinction of the tamed Targ dragons. He's down there with Aegon IV and Aerys II in terms of how disastrous a king he was. Awful, awful ruler.

[@OniDasAlagoas]

I kinda agree with most of your statements here. A little addendum to your argument is that I think Jahaerys is also to blame for what happened with the Dance.

[@hclw3589]

Not really viserys had an entire reign of peace because of jaherhys. It’s viserys that fucked things up.

[@htduncan1]

Omg the THUMBNAIL💀💀💀 Freaking hilarious!

[@amorojaz27]

Despite Viserys' shortcomings as a father, husband, and king, he at least had the common sense to realize Daemon had no business being the Hand of the King.

[@Dell-ol6hb]

I do think he kinda had to have more kids, having a single heir is not exactly a stable plan especially in a world where they could die relatively easily, but in that case he should've either not made Rhaenyra his heir or support her as his heir way more then he actually did. I think having a son with a different wife than your primary heir would always cause some issues in succession but he could've mitigated these issues a ton if he actually properly made sure Rhaenyra was prepared with as many supporters as possible and real experience with ruling. If she was already well established as a ruling figure such as by being Viserys' hand it would be much harder for the Greens to actually get people to back Aegon for rule when he's completely unproven and the kingdom already has an easy transition to somebody who is already in power.

[@RikkudoSennin6]

Incorrect. The seeds of the Dance of The Dragon's were planted in Jaehaerys' reign when he wanted to passed over Rhaenys for Baelon and his son Vaegon suggested that he let the Lord's decide instead of just naming Baelon or Rhaenys. Jaehaerys was a traditonalist and didn't want a woman on the throne so the Great Council was his way of preventing an immediate war for the crown as Corly's was gathering his fleet and armies to defend Laenor's rights as he was a boy when Prince Baelon died of appendicitis. Daemon himself was gathering men and support to defend Viserys' rights. Way to show me you haven't read the book without telling me you haven't read the book.

[@CorvoThan]

viserys reign was carried by his predeseccor and his two actually compentent hands. Every decision he made himself was absolutly idiotic. I like to think that he had good intentions, but in the end he managed to be both a bad king and worse father. His glorification by the fandom seems to be the result of their need for heroes, which sadly this is the wrong series for.

[@lettuce6749]

Honey wake up, Hill's Alive posted again

[@poppag8281]

I love Viserys as a character but he was not a great king, good analysis

[@swellsessionsteam]

I love your cadence and flow. In a world so fraught with conflict, it's fun and deeply needed to have deep analysis on topics that aren't as heavy. I appreciate your balanced takes on these characters. Such wonderful videos 🦄

[@peterhanes7333]

Here's what Viserys should have done, in order: 1. Name Aegon heir, and secure a good marriage for Rhaenyra. Sorry Rhae, law is law. 2. Failing that, marry Aegon off early, to the heiress of a noble, but non-royal house. Before his marriage, Aegon shall publicly swear fealty to Rhaenyra. (Do the same with Aemond.) 3. Marry Jace and Helaena. When Alicent balks, say, "Sorry Honey, but I'm her father and the King. And I say Helaena's marrying Jace." 4. Name Corlys Velaryon Hand of the King. 5. Name Laenor or Daemon Lord Commander of the Watch after Harwin dies. 6. Have Rhaenyra's husband make several public appearances as my heir. Make the conversation about Daemon or Laenor vs Aegon, not Rhaenyra vs Aegon.

[@displacerkatsidhe]

In my eyes, this is all still Jaehaerys's fault! He saw that his eldest son Aemon, his heir only had a daughter. With his personal preference of not passing the throne to women, he allowed her to marry outside the family, thinking, "Well After Aemon, the throne will just go to Bealon!" even though that's not how it works, ANYWHERE ELSE in Westeros! If he was actually smart like his wife, and maybe solitifed some inheritence laws for the throne to prevent this kind of thing be it Male preference or Male Proximity primogeniture, regarless of his weirdo male centric prefrences, since the Targaryens keep it in the family, Rhaenys should NOT have married Corys. Be it a hypothedical or the main timeline. She should have married Viserys. Hands down. This would have snipped any potental future rival bloodlines fighting for the throne. She was only 3 years older than him, so they wouldn't have run into a 12yr old girl being bedded, she probably wouldn't have had her first child until she was 19 at the absolute earliest, but lets say she still has a Rhaenyra like the cannon in 97ac, she'd have been 23, instead of 15! And at the same time, to tie up another loose end, Jaehaerys and Alyssane should have married Aemma and Daemon. Being only a year apart in age, that way her likelihood of being bedded so stupidly young becomes FAAAAR less likely, as Westeros seems to follow rules of cohabitation as medieval Europe being 12g/14b. Then again in this alternate timeline there's a chance Aemma Arryn doesn't exist, as if Rhaenys and Viserys are betrothed as children, Corys isn't holding out to get his hands on the heir to the heir, and could possibly be more open to marrying the younger sister to the heir, and might have instead married Daella Targaryen instead before she opts to marry Rodrik Arryn, So Daemon could still end up Corys's son-in-law. Hopefully in that alternate timeline poor Daella doesn't die screaming in childbirth this time ):

[@AshleyWrites007]

I come back every few days to listen to this again while I work because the venom for Viserys caffeinates me.

[@MostlyHarmless68]

Solid argument, well done!

[@TheSovietSuperpower]

1. Thank you for ripping this asshole to shreds. Christ am I sick of people in the Fandom lionizing Viserys for "being a good father" who "truly loved his daughter" (as if that was actual love and not just guilt, and also as if that excused anything he did). 2. Something I really wish was touched on more in either this video, or if you'd be willing to make a video about it, is why precisely Rhaenyra wants to be Queen. Follow me here. We know there are really 2 principle reasons she wants to be Queen: the first being her personal reasons of wanting to have the authority to overrule basically anyone she ever marries regarding whether or not she is the victim of a botched C-section like her mother. While this is a complete understandable motive for her to want to have power, we also know that rational-acting political animals like Otto Hightower, are more than willing to make concessions to people that may well upset established precedent or a social institution for political gain, so long as that doesn't inspire backlash that might diminish his position more than not making good on his deals does. The most obvious example of this is in episode 9, when Otto agrees to have the fighting pits closed in exchange for Aegon's whereabouts in his dealings with Mysaria. Now, obviously, Rhaenyra doesn't see this and can't then use it as a precedent to believe that she could leverage her potential abdication and endorsement of Aegon as King in exchange for the banning of the C-section procedure, but then again, Rhaenyra should have been intimately familiar with Otto's breaking of precedent given that it is legitimately unbelievable that Rhaenyra would have never once at least heard at some point in the 2 years between her being named heir and Aegon's birth, that Otto had been a driving force in getting Rhaenyra named as heir, especially given that Otto literally risked his life by going to Dragonstone to enforce that claim when Daemon occupied the island in protest of being disowned by Viserys. So it doesn't make sense that Rhaenyra, politically unprepared to become Queen as she was, couldn't see that she'd likely be perfectly capable of asking for some guarantee of the C-section being abolished in Westeros in exchange for her bending the knee. The second reason given of course, is Aegon's prophecy, but even then, I still feels that this falls flat. If Rhaenyra's duty was truly to keep the realm united, then she at the very least should have tried to make far fewer, blatantly obvious violations of law and inheritance precedent (which she should have known would alienate many of the Lords of Westeros) and then paper over it with threats of mutilation, dragon fire and eventually Daemon to keep her claim with a shred of legitimacy. More than that, if we are to give genuine credence to the idea takes this responsiblity seriously (despite evidence to the contrary), we still don't even need her to be Queen, because there is also the established precedent of Daemon being given command of the City Watch and retrofitting them into a considerably more powerful army than they were prior to his ascension to commander, which Rhaenyra could, in this case do with the Night's Watch. Given that the Night's Watch is functionally little more than a penal colony by the time the Targaryens arrive in Westeros, there's little in the way of a powerful command structure to oppose this newly appointed role (which could be passed on to a successor of her choosing), and would also pose little threat to the Greens, given the degraded quality of the Night's Watch's combat power by that time, and also just the lack of geographic proximity of the Wall the King's Landing, should reasonably mean that Otto and the rest of the Hightowers wouldn't see this as a serious threat (in fact, he might even see it as self-imposed exile). In other words, I've yet to see a convincing argument, that Rhaenyra *has* to be Queen to get the concessions she wants for her personal well-being or to fulfill her prophetic destiny. But what do you think?

[@islasullivan3463]

The one problem that I have with this is that we don’t know if Rhaenyra knew about the c-section, it’s likely that all anyone was told was that Aemma died in childbirth which was very common even without botched c-sections. While I do see him saying how guilty he feels about her death he never goes into details with others.

[@monicavelazquezrodriguez3035]

I don't think that she has based any of her motivation about the C-section, I don't even think she knew what it was. I believe as her eyes "her mother died to bring a male heir", and then, her father coroning her, she won his afection (until he married Alicent) and her role as heir is her bond with him. I think that make sense that both of them would be that narrowed as politicians, the see it as a familiar dynamics ans the roles in dynasty are only their role in the family and is determined to win the throne to avenge her side of the family (and nothing else). Otto had a political vision but he risked all his family for the Kingdom as Viserys risks all the Kingdom for his family (only Raenyra and Daemon count as his family as his actions demonstrated).

[@MarqMortis]

It's a testament to how great an actor Paddy is that people overlook it but the facts remain; Viserys was the main architect of his house's doom, and that's not going to change.

[@duckling3615]

First

[@hoveringgray2817]

I am enjoying every bit of the viserys (well deserved) slander. We have a saying that says "a wise enemy is better than a stupid friend" and imo it applies to viserys very well. I actually think in his head he was being well meaning but he never considered the consequences of his decisions and behavior. His negligence led to the very same thing he feared would happen to his family.

[@lordfreerealestate8302]

Viserys was a deeply tragic, flawed man who sabotaged everything. And I kinda like him that way, with complexity to his character. You can enjoy a character without liking everything about them. Or them even being a good person. This Viserys was much more complex and layered than the book Viserys. But the fandom shouldn't defend everything he does. Or any other character for that matter.

[@HumerusUsername]

The thumbnail is a solid 10.

[@east4246]

Love your channel always great takes. Best female GoTs channel. I hope your channel grows to 100k this year

[@HillsAliveYT]

LOL manifesting this!

[@roseofthegarden_]

here 3 minutes in. can't wait for viserys slander

[@raycicle4891]

That thumbnail *Chef's Kiss*

[@iconoclasttheunholy4540]

Happy New Year, Hill's Alive 💖💗💞 Thanks for the upload.

[@97aves]

i havent watched this yet, but the thumbnail has already got me hooked. bravo! 🎉

[@davidduran6163]

I have many doubts that integrating Rhaenyra and Daemon into the government would have been the least bit positive or the solution to all the problems. That would have been an even worse catastrophe and does not in any way avoid the succession problem.

[@ComradeQuestion091]

"Weak, indecisive and self-absorbed person; whose desire for some kind of last importance but unwillingness to work towards that legacy..." this is the single best description of Viserys that I've ever heard 😂

[@DiomedesDioscuro]

For God's sake, Viserys didn't kill Aemma! She couldn't survive without giving birth to the baby!

[@shadowwarrior3444]

Not even political failings, as shown in the show, had Viserys just stopped moping about and actually been a decent husband and father to Alicent and her kids, and did more to discipline Rhaenyra and her kids, the Targaryen family would have been literally unstoppable. His failures as a proper family man worsened both his line, and Westeros as a whole, for generations to come.

[@Nethan_The_Drawer]

That thumbnail is a work of art.

[@MrWaterlionmonkey]

There are actually many things he could have done to stop this. He could've disinherited Deamon or made it illegal for him to marry his daughter, plenty of Lords were scared of him being king. He could've made it clear that if he had another wife their male children would not jump the sucession, I doubt Otto would have offered his daughter had he known. He could've simply not sired children with Alicent. He could've married Rhenera to Ageon as Otto suggested. He could've arrested Criston Cole, he killed a Knight in front of everyone and dislikes Rhenera, he shouldn't spare him because of his wife, especially considering the problems he caused. He could've disinherited Rhenera's bastard children, as many did not want bastards to inherit, or he could've agreed they were bastards but legitimise them, or he could make it illegal to question their parentage. I know he did, but only after many many years of allowing rumour to fester. He could've kept Harwin the hell away from King's landing or his daughter. He could've and should've punished someone or everyone during the debacle at dragonstone, his son lost an eye, he grandchildren were called bastards, Rhenera threaten to torture his son Aemond and his wife attempted to wound or kill his grandson and daughter, what did he do? Sweet fuck all, accept finally making it illegal to question the parentage of his grandson, everyone left that feeling absolute hatred for the otherside because the king did not act. There should've been consequences, even if they're grounded in their castles. He could've taken Rheneras advice and married Rheneras kids to Alicent's kids thus uniting the sides, Alicent did not want it, but who is she to refuse the King. he should have disinherited his children with Alicent and kept them away from the capital, and not placed Otto back as hand of the King, and made sure Rhenera did not move to Dragonstone. She should have been in King's landing learning to rule on the small council. Viserys is a good man and he does make decisions, but his problem is how long it takes him to make a decision and many of his decisions are half measures or he tries to please everyone and pisses off everyone. He's too kind to be king. The dance is 100 percent his fault.

[@MattyCamachio]

Your videos are awesome and your way of taking a step back and looking at the faults of these characters. I think the internet thinks these characters do good things when in contrast they do A TON of things wrong. I’m glad I’m not the only one with this viewpoint